Fixed Point and Death?

So...the Fixed Point card from the Time Cataclysm states that basically for one round, until the start of the next environment turn, all cards are indestructible. We ran into this card while fighting La Capitan last night and we ran into some interesting questions during that one round.

If villian targets have their HP reduced to 0 in such a round, they hang about until their no longer indestrucatble, correct?

More over, what happens if a Player card is reduced to 0 in that situation? Does the hero still act, sort of playing powers and cards from a undeath limbo? Cause I tell you what, we were confused. Also kind of desperately trying to heal that one player too. Heh.

We may have handled it wrong, but it certainly was a strange situation.

As long as Fixed Point is in play, nothing is destructable, so everything stays in play and plays as normal.

As soon as Fixed Point leaves play, anything with 0 or fewer gets destroyed and player cards would flip to incapped (you should track negative HP with Fixed Point to account for healing).

Correct! Targets hang around until they are no longer Indestructible, regardless of HP! If you want some extra fun, try playing multiples of Mister Fixer’s Tools/Styles or Omnitron-X’s Platings!

Ah! Thank you, I was wondering.

I tell you what, it was funny (and oddly thematic) having Omintron-X (me) flip out upon being reduced to 0 HP, turn into zombie robot, RESET THREE TIMES IN A ROW and only come out with two innervation rays for his trouble and turn to Argent Adept and say, "HEAL ME, HEAL ME, HEAL ME. I AM LITERALLY SPEAKING TO YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE."

Omitron made it the end of the game, for what it was worth, but it was strange. I can honestly say I spent a round dead in this game, but got better. Kinda thematic to superhero comics, actually. Haha.

I'm just imagining Omni-X with all plating types in play, a damage boost or two, and then using Defensive Blast. That would be sick.

"I'm getting better"

/obligitory Monty Python quote

Edit: Correcting Mounty Python, came here too quick from the Canada thread

Remember with Indestrutible, the hp can go down below 0 into negative numbers. Adept would need to heal into positive before the Indestructible goes away to revive Omnitron-X.

Just in case, you missed that part

Heroes such as Fanatic and especially Ab'Zero can have huge amounts of fun with Fixed Point, nuking themselves into massively negative hp to get off an obscenely damaging nuke against something - I think Ab'Zero can actually nuke himself repeatedly, over and over again (off his Isothermic Transducer, I imagine) until you get fed up with him hitting himself (you could do hundreds of damage if you wanted), and then unleash a megablast on the main villain, reducing them to negative hp...as soon as Fixed Point goes away, both drop dead instantly :D.

If Fanatic is at negative HP and she plays Wrathful Retribution, would you end up dealing more than 30 damage?  Mathematically, if she's at -5 HP, then you'd deal 30-(-5), which is equivalent to 35, right?

On a related topic, if Fanatic is the only hero that was not incapacitated before Fixed Point, and she gets put into negatives and doesn't get out of them, but puts the villain into negatives as well, what happens when Fixed Point goes away?  Is it like with choosing who dies in a Chemical Explosion, where you can say the villain is destroyed a split-second before Fanatic?  Or do their deaths happen actually-simultaneously, unlike anything else in Sentinels, making it possible to tie the game?

I would go thematic in that case.  You did stop the villain, it just cost you everything.  We did the same with the explosive wagon, Omnitron destroyed it and it was enough damage to take every target to negatives, so we let everyone get taken out and looked at the next environment card to determine what happened afterwards, fortunately it was Pratt, so we figured we ended up alright.

Well the rules are very clear that when damage is involved, the players choose the order to apply it, so an Explosive Wagon can never kill the heroes unless the villains survive (excepting the Dreamer).  This is a much wonkier edge case.

I ended a game with the Volcano erupting on Insula Primalis and "ruled" that it took out the villain's last 6 HP before it took the last 3 HP of the lone non-incapacitated hero.  Therefore, a win.

I watched a game against Kismet once where every hero but the Scholar was incapped. Fixed Point came up, and the Scholar actually chose to go to 0 HP to take Kismet down.

When Fixed Point was over, the player of the Scholar got to choose what happened first: his incap, or Kismets. I think thematically it worked out like this: the Scholar realised that he was actually not quite that badly hurt after all. Anyway, the Heroes won the game. And Christopher was one of the players and explained all of this, which is why I am pretty darn sure that this is how it works.  

Yeah. Simultaneous death = hero win. 

Actually, I can't find anything in the rules that says that the heroes lose if they're all incapacitated.  So the heroes would definately win.

Well there is this from the Quick reference:

8.  Gameplay continues in the same order until either the heroes have all been incapacitated, or the villain is destroyed!

If you want to be technical, nothing ever says the heroes win either (apart from specific villains having win or loss conditions, like Gloomweaver or Baron Blade).  But this definitely indicates that the game ends.

Yes, according to the rules the heros would win, and survive at negative health.

So zombie heroes.  We all love Zombies still right?

No.

Agreed.  Pardon the pun, but they've been done utterly to death.

What about mummies then, they are sort of like zombies, only drier

From the section labeled "To Battle!"

Whenever a target is reduced to 0 or fewer hp, put it into the associated trash, except in the cases of hero character cards and villain character cards.  Unless stated otherwise, when a villain character card is reduced to 0 or fewer hp, the villain is destroyed and the players have won the game!

@ Jsz2:  I stand corrected.

I hated the last Brendan Fraser Mummy movie because it operated on exactly this premise.  Mummies are supposed to be much more singular entities than zombies, with intelligence and agendas, not simply undead hunger or malice (granted the agenda is often malicious, but they don't have to pursue it single-mindedly while shambling and groaning).  They should be rare, since the mummification process is quite elaborate and effortful and in most cases it was done thousands of years ago; thusly, being rare, they should not be treated as disposable mooks.  Provided they are treated with proper respect by the writer, mummies are awesome and have the potential to be even more awesome.  I would like to see them used just a bit more, but not over-used so they lose uniqueness (which is exactly what has happened to zombies, and vampires to a lesser extent).

Yeah, let's generally overlook the mummification process that can happen naturally.

Okay that is possible, but it's still pretty rare.  With very few exceptions (e.g. Vesuvius), there shouldn't be more than a handful of mummies in any area.

It's fairly common, from what I understand, in arid places. American southwest, Middle East, Africa...

Bodies protected by caves but left to the elements dry out. Skin becomes leather-like.

Mummies are all about Curses of ancient gods.

Zombies are all about still living bodies with no sould and minimal brain activity.

Must resist comments about Congress. . .

Why no self-respecting zombie would go there, not enough food

Actually, and sorry to rez this topic, but I just realized, would Fixed Point effectively block Unity from cannibalizing equipment to create bots (at least with her innate power)? Since she can't destroy anything, she can't use her Bot Hack power, I'm guessing, right?

It would not prevent the use of the power.  Only the destruction.  The destruction would fail, and no card would be playable.

Yeah, I meant like that. Net gain the Bot Hack power fizzles and does nothing, if I am understanding you correctly.

You are, just have to be anal about the fact that you can use powers, even if they don't do anything.

Conversely, Dark Watch Fixer gets to use Bitter Strike for free :).

As if regular Fixer didn't gain enough from Fixed Point.

Basically, just don't ever let Fixer leave the Time Cataclysm.  In the normal world he's an old blind guy who fixes cars.  The spacetime continuum has to be falling apart at the seams before he becomes ungodly powerful, because he's so Zen that he waited the entire history of the cosmos for one perfect moment in which to do all his being-awesome in.

And I missed my chance, last time I played Fixer in the Time Cat - Fixed Point came and went and it wasn't until after it had gone that I realised "Aah, noooo, I should've played extra stuff!"...oh well, I'll have to remmeber it next time (whenever that is) ;).