Start of turn actions vs Skipping your turn to draw two cards?

I'm currently playing a game of SotM with a firend, but a question about a card ruling has come up.

I'm AZ and he's the scholar(the third hero, the villain and location doesn't matter for this question really...), I have Impale in play and he has Flesh to Iron out.

we both need cards in our hands, so I tell him I'm going to hold my turn to get two cards and my Impale will still harm the villain. He thinks that's a good idea and is going to hold his turn as well to get two more cards too, but I don't know if that would work for him if he wants to keep out Flesh to Iron since you have to give up a card and whatnot. He thinks that he can still do it if he's skipping his turn.

So basically my question is this: for cards whose effects go off at the start/end of turns that a player has a choice to keep out(I.E.: discard a card to keep this out), can I skip my turn to draw two cards and still do the action to keep the card out, or does it go away since I'm forgoing any kind of action other than drawing?

Skipping your turn does not give you an extra card draw. Skipping your turn is not a option the game gives to you.

If you do not play a card in your play phase or use a power in your power phase, you may draw 2 cards during the draw phase.

Ah, sorry. I guess I got confused by my own wording.

If I may, a minor, friendly correction: If you neither play a card nor use a power you may draw an additional card during the draw phase.

Also, cards that act during the same phase of a turn do so in the order they came out. So if there was a Meteor Shower out and you're playing the Scholar and play an elemental form card, then next round you would make the check for the Meteor Shower first - if you choose to skip your turn (to get rid of the Meteor Shower), then your turn ends right there without getting onto making the check to discard something to keep the elemental card in play (so you would just keep it in play without needing to discard). I'm pretty sure that's right, anyway :).

If a card tells you "Do X, then immediately end your turn" (eg the Scholar's "Know When to Hold Fast" or Nightmist's "Mist-Fuelled Recovery"), you still get your end phase (if you have anything which would trigger at that point).

Also, something which lets you draw an additional card during your draw phase (eg Nightmist's Mistform or Visionary's TK Cocoon) lets you draw three cards on every turn after the one in which you play the card, since you're neither playing a card nor using a power (therefore would normally draw two cards).

Playing cards, using powers, and drawing cards is always optional unless a card text states otherwise - if it says "You may draw a card", you don't have to. If it's like TLT's base power, "Each player draws a card", there is no "may", so you have to do it.

Unless you can't.

Okay, yeah, unless something specifies you can't do it at all, in which case you can't do it no matter how many cards you have which say you can do this thing (or do more of it than usual) - see, I knew I'd miss something out ;).

But what if there is a card (an environment card, most likely) that says "A hero may skip their turn to..." etc. Would this mean that start of turn and end of turn effects don't trigger, since there is no turn? Would scholar then be able to skip his turn to keep Flesh to Iron in play without paying the price?

It would depend on what Start of Turn card was in play first. As Start of Turn effects are triggered in the order of play. End of Turn effects will be completely skipped this way.

It also depends on WHEN the trigger takes place. Usually such effects say "At the start of a hero's turn, that player may skip their turn to do X." So you follow the order-of-play rule, as previously mentioned.

Also, "Immediately end your turn" is different from "skip (the rest of) your turn." Ending your turn does not allow you to skip end-of-turn effects, as it skips your play, power, and draw phases and moves directly to the end of turn phase. Skipping your turn skips the end of turn phase as well.

If an environment card said "At the end of the environment turn the highest HP hero must choose to discard their hand or skip their next turn," then no start or end turn effects would take place if they chose to skip.

Exactly. Although it probably wouldn't, because that would be really awkward timing. But yeah.

If the Scholar has played an elemental card and then, say, a Meteor Shower comes out, when it next comes to the Scholar's turn he looks at what things trigger during his Start phase. The elemental form card was out first, so he checks that and decides whether or not to discard to keep it in play. Then he looks at the Meteor Shower and opts to skip his go - pass straight to the next player, the Scholar gets no further phases.

If Omni-10 was playing, and the Meteor Shower came out after he'd put out all his components, all of said components would get to activate and then he would make the choice as to whether or not to skip his go and get rid of the Meteor Shower.

Compare to a Nightmist example. She has a pin stuck in her by Gloomweaver which will cause her to take damage at the end of her turn, but the round before that she had played her Starshield Necklace. On her Play phase, she plays Mist-Fuelled recovery, shuffling a trash into its deck, restoring some hitpoints, and ending her turn. That is, she moves straight to her End phase (thus is unable to use a power or draw any cards) and may choose to discard something to heal from her Necklace (since that was in play first). After choosing to do so (or not), she then takes damage via the pin (unless she has the Amulet out and chooses to discard two to redirect said damage).

In a related question, if a star of turn effect lets a hero play a card, for example Expat's Speed Loading, is that hero unable to then draw two cards later in their turn? That is, if they don't play a card during their play phase or use a power during their power phase, but play a card at another point in their turn.

Playing a card or using a power at any point during your turn would prevent you from drawing the extra card. I suppose if you could play/power during the end-of-turn phase, it wouldn't matter since you would already have drawn, but I can't think of anything that lets you do that.

Yeah, the wording on page 6 of the rule book (page 9 of the PDF) is pretty specific: "If, for any reason, a player neither plays a card nor uses a power on their turn, then they may draw an additional card during their draw phase. If, by contrast, a player skips their turn for any reason, they have skipped every phase of their turn and cannot draw any cards."

Omni-10's Slip Through Time lets you both play a card and use a power at the end of your turn, I believe. That's the only example I can think of.

Good catch. Of course, you have to play it that turn in order for it to be in play (Fixed Point, aside).

That's true, and you could get it into play in any of your other phases during the turn (except the Draw phase) via EDU, Reset, playing it directly, or Timeshift...but in all cases you've still played a card before your Draw phase.

Is this still true with the newer Order of Ops ruling.   Or do you have more choice over the order of when things trigger similar to if Legacy has <Those two cards out that I can't remember but hopefully people will get through context> out and is going to be hit for 5 damage.  It used to be he took either 2 or 4 depending on the order they came out, but now you can choose the order of resolution to make is 2.  Maybe that rule doesn't apply to start and end of turn effects in the same way.  I know that when I'm resolving a villain turn I follow the order that cards came out, but I wasn't sure if that was still necessary or if its just an easy way to keep track of things.

IF ((Not(played a card in your play phase)AND(Not(used a power in your power phase))) THEN you may draw an additional card during the draw phase.

Cards that trigger at the start and end of turn phases still trigger in the order that they entered play. So yes, this is how it will be played out.

Not quite:

While I agree that is the correct conversion for what arenson9 wrote, the "in your X phase" parts fit with what Foote initially stated.

I also believe that is the correct interpretaion of the rule according to jagarciao:

This means that if Omni-X has out a component that lets him play a card during the start of his turn and he does, then does not play a card during the play phase and also refrains from using a power during his power phase he will get the extra card draw.

Thanks, Pydro - beat me to it.