Ruling 15 rears its head

I was one of the lucky ones.

During the recent UK game day I got a hold of one of the 12 copies of the Enhanced Edition that were shipped to Leisure Games for the event, and I only just got a chance to look through it last night.

All of the cards that were debated in Rule 15 are now changed to "If he/she takes no damage this way, this card is destroyed", so huzzah for clarity! (I can go through and get a complete list if someone, i.e. Spiff, wants one)

...

Except Divine Focus, I don't know if this is an oversight or intentional but I thought it odd enough to bring to the forum's/>G attention.

If there is different card text in this new printing, even if it is just some cards, It would be nice if >G could provide us with a list of these changes.  Some of us are still playing with the Original Edition. I am pretty good with remembering the TONS of changes from that printing, but I can only do so much. 

Divine Focus was not changed? Seems like a rather significant difference. Would like to know more.

They do have a list of those changes; you can download PDF's from their website that point out all the differences between the Original and Enhanced.

http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/downloads

Under the section labeled "Changes", there are 3 pdf's; one for the heroes, one for the villains, and one for the environments.

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They do have a list of those changes; you can download PDF's from their website that point out all the differences between the Original and Enhanced.

Or, if you have sleeves, cut them out and put them in with the cards. Also, Spiff takes that page and makes it a little better:

http://www.spiffworld.com/sotm/printable.cfm

And if you took the time to look at them before posting, you would notice that the changes Matchstick is talking about are not listed there. That download link is very old. Those sheets helped me remember the changes in the first place.

The changes from Ruling 15 are newer and I was not aware the reprint of the EE had additional card errata. It is that additional errata I would like a list of.

Keeping a continuing changelog of evolving text on cards isn't something I'm wild about doing.  Seems like that's the kind of info >G themselves should be tracking and (hopefully) making available.  I know they're not likely to get to it anytime soon though, which is a shame.  Still, I would be interested in seeing a full list of text changes for my own edification.  And if I get too bored on a Saturday, maybe I'd find some time to post it to my site.

I remember that the >G crew mentioned that they would be posting the changes for the RC reprint errata. I would very much hope the new EE errata is included as well.

Can we get a solid list of what cards these are?  I'd love to see about tacking on a few of those when GSF ships.

Also, do we know if those are the only changes or are there a few others that have gone unnoticed?

Cards which have the changed wording on them in my Enhanced Edition are

Fanatic

• Chastise
• Embolden

Ra

• Solar Flare

Tachyon

• Pushing the Limit

Cards which might be a misprint or just different and need this errata

Fanatic

• Divine Focus

We went ahead and changed those cards in the latest print run to make them more clear. We ordered a bunch of extra copies of the cards that changes from the manufacturer, and as soon as we have them at our warehouse, we'll be putting complete sets of them on the web store for $0.01 and with a weight of 0.01lbs. It will still charge you shipping, but that is all, and if you combine it with any other order it will be essentially free.

The only reason this came up before we could make an announcement is because we emergency shipped 12 copies from the latest print run to Leisure Games direct from China so that they would have them during our visit. Those are the only 12 from that print run that have been sold to date :)

Unfortunately, Divine Focus was overlooked when we made this change. It should also have been altered. Consider it errata'd to work the same way as the other cards, and we'll change it in the next print run (and also make corrected copies available in the same way).

So, we can just add these to Vengeance? Or will that happen automatically?

Thank you Paul. Are there still plans to post a comprehensive list of changes (however minor) from this run of the EE and RC?

Thanks for the info on the cards Paul, and the awesomeness of the 1p replacements.

Sorry to have stolen your thunder!

Thank you Paul. Are there still plans to post a comprehensive list of changes (however minor) from this run of the EE and RC?

Yes!

Sorry to have stolen your thunder!

No worries! "We have a couple cards errata'd in the reprint of Enhanced Edition" is not exactly the most thrilling or timing-sensitive announcement :)

Can someone give a quick recap of what Rule 15 is? Searching for it is not very effective.

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/answers-to-debated-questions-3871

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15. If a hero does not take damage from an effect, such as Pushing the Limits, Solar Flare, etc. does the card remain in play?

No, they have to take the damage listed on the card. If Tachyon does not recieve at least 2 damage from Pushing the Limits, than it is destroyed. So if she is immune, redirected it, or reduced it to 1 damage, the card card has not fulfilled the condition and thus is destroyed. This applies to Solar Flare as well, so no Imbued Fire + Flesh of the Sun God tricks. However the damage type can be anything, just as long as the amount of damage listed is taken, the card will remain.

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/33371#comment-33371 A new ruling has been proposed by Christopher.

Hahaha sure! (Ruling 15 is the colloquial term on the forum. It came from a post Ronway made detailing a few rules questions he asked Christopher)

The ruling focused on Ra's Solar Flare and Flesh of the Sun God combo. Initially, Christopher ruled that if Ra did not deal himself all 4 damage from Solar Flare that it would be destroyed. This extended to other similar effects like Fanatics Embolden, Divine Focus, Chastise and Tachyons Pushing the Limits. After some dialogue through the forums, Christopher altered his initial stance to allow for some of the self damage to be mitigated, but your hero would still need to take at least some of the damage to keep those cards in play.

Ruling 15 essentially broke Ra's super combo

Edit: Ninja'd

Thanks. I quickly skimmed it (and the link to the proposed ruling) cause I need to get back to work. Lunch is almost over. Is the end result they need to take the full damage or just any damage?

I'm hoping it's 'any damage'.

'Any damage' is correct

Looks like I'll be buying a new Enhanced Edition when they come back in stock, both to fix the "too much yellow" from the first printing and these errata. Just bought a new Unity deck today and it has the correct coloring, instead of the simpsons looking Unity from the first print run. I think Infernal Relics was released with the first print of EE so the big box that combines Rook City and IR will be great as well to fix both errata and any color issues it might have. I'll just go the extra copy route for Divine Focus when they get around to it and hopefully it'll match the deck size/color.

This clarification will be changing how my group plays Ra, as well as changes my plans to have [REDACTED] just redirect the damage from Embolden, though only slightly.

I'll second the question about whether we can order these and specify that it get added to Vengeance when it ships. Ditto with an extra set of round (HP) counters.

It's interesting to note how this ruling changes the battle against Advanced Warlord Voss.  Since his starting side reduces damage dealt "by hero targets" rather than "to villain targets", under the old ruling, it instantly negated this entire class of cards ("No soup Solar Flare for you!").  They are now usable in that match again, so Voss takes a tiny downtick in difficulty as a result.

I'm quite curious about this myself.  I'll gladly pay a penny (or even 100 times that with a whole dollar) to have updated cards come with my Vengeance or GSF shipment.

Matchstickman, a quick question -- which printing does the EE box you have with the corrected cards say it is? (My recently acquired box specifically says "Second Printing," and I'm trying to figure out whether I need to budget for replacement cards at some point in the future.)

Looking at the barcode on the front of the box it says second printing, but unless you bought the game from Leisure Games on or after the UK day you definitely do not have the same print run as I have. >G specifically emergency shipped 12 copies from China to the UK for the day. I do not believe that the copies at Essen were from that print run either (though that is speculation on my part to do with shipping stuff from both the US and China to Essen being prohibitively expensive, I could be wrong).

Yeah, my copy was US acquired, but around the same time as Essen. I'll check wording later today, then.

I wouldn't expect $0.01 to break your budget in any case! (Of course there is also shipping.)

The only 12 games that have ever been available for sale to date with the new wording were shipped to Leisure Games. If you did not ultimately get your copy of Enhanced Edition from Leisure Games in the past two weeks, you do not have the new wording on your cards.

got it. Thanks!

(If I tried to place the order now-ish, would it be possible to have the cards shipped with Vengeance?)

Then definitely not.

The US copies were still in China at that point (and probably still are!).

Ah... So you can't use Ra's Flesh of the Sun God + Imbued Fire combo to make these cards "free" anymore? That's definitely going to set back Ra's usefulness...

Not as much as you might think. Solar Flare can still be used as a "one-shot" of sorts. If you have Drawn to the Flames in play with the Staff, play Solar Flare, then use DttF to deal all non-hero targets 3 damage at least + 1 more for each villain ongoing. You can still benefit from the card even if you do not keep it in play indefinatly. Ra doesn't need the old super combo to be a damage power house. He still does that better than most. 

Question, if I buy a new copy of sentinels base game from Amazon right now, is it rule 15 compliant?

I believe Amazon is not currently Rule 15 compliant.

Their purchase info should read: "If 39.99 plus shipping is paid, receive one Copy of Sentinels of the Multiverse Enhanced Edition."

I checked their erata, but it didn't say anything, so I don't think they are up on their current rulings.  I E-Mailed their IT department with a link to Spiff's PDF, hopefully they update in time for the combined Rook City/Infernal Relics realease.

For a while you are not going to know what you're getting until you open the box (unless you buy direct from >G), there are going to be both errataed and unerrataed copies floating in the supply chain, that's just the nature of the distribution chain. There's no scenario where a mass recall is an improvement for Sentinels (or >G) over just letting the unerrataed copies sell out first.

Will it be possible to somehow get the erratted card pack added into our vengeance shipments? I know thats more to check off but won't everyone who ordered be assumed to have the old version already and need these?