19 posts · 1264 views · started 2013-09-29 20:12 UTC
EN
Envisioner
2013-09-29 20:12 UTC
#1
This is me getting excessively theoretical for a minute. I'm pretty sure that if a card effect says something "can't" happen, such as Projected Paralysis saying "you can't play cards", that effect is not automatically trumped the first time a card effect says you can do so. For instance, PP has hit Expatriette, but before her turn, the Argent Adept or an Incapacitated hero grants her the ability to play a card. The effect granting a card play is newer than the effect forbidding it, but I believe that doesn't mean it trumps the older effect. I am however a little uncertain of exactly why.
To make it a bit more esoteric, let's say that what happens is that Omnitron Timeshifts Expatriette's deck, and puts Speed Loading into play. Speed Loading is now definitely a newer card than Projected Paralysis, and by a strict reading of the rules, that might be taken to mean that it now trumps the older effect and allows Expat to play an Ammo card. But even so, she would presumably still lose her normal card play for the turn. Again, it's not so much that I believe this works, but that I would like a breakdown of exactly why it doesn't.
RO
Ronway
2013-09-29 20:14 UTC
#2
No, "can't" always trumps "can" no matter order of play.
SP
Spiff
2013-09-29 20:49 UTC
#3
That is the general consensus, but I've never seen that officially confirmed. It's not in my FAQ, at the very least.
RA
Rabit
2013-09-29 21:06 UTC
#4
I don't think the issue is "can" vs. "can't" - the issue is something is telling you that you may do an action that another thing has said you can't do. Speed Loading's "may play an ammo card" is giving you the option to do so that you don't normally have, but because you can't play cards at this point that option is not valid.
I think this hasn't been asked before because the understood intention of the "can't" effects is they prevent us from being able to do the thing, no matter what other effects are in place - as Ronway stated - so it never came up as something to put in the Spiff's FAQ.
PH
phantaskippy
2013-09-29 21:35 UTC
#5
Since the play a card phase is stated "The Hero's player may choose to play one card from their hand" any time-order rule applied to a "can't play cards" effect would always result in your play phase being allowed, since the effect is there as soon as the game starts.
The others are right, a can't overrides a can, which is why Bunker's Ammo Drop is worded the way it is. If a card wanted to override a can't effect, it would have to say so.
SP
Spiff
2013-09-29 21:48 UTC
#6
The others are right, a can't overrides a can
This is something I wish we did less of around here. This statement makes it sound like it is established fact, when really it's just a reasonable consensus interpretation. Both are valuable, but when we act like the forum's consensus interpretation is the same thing as established fact, I think we're blurring lines.
Maybe it's just an internet thing, where it's quicker to say "this is true" rather than "I think this is true"?
Who's WriterRyan? Does he speak with a game designer's authority?
PH
phantaskippy
2013-09-29 22:16 UTC
#9
Do we have an audio file?
RO
Ronway
2013-09-29 22:25 UTC
#10
WriterRyan is a guy named Ryan that I believe lives in Kansas City, Kansas/Missouri. He is also a moderator that I believe at one point also had the Administrator rights at one point. He is also a friend of Christopher, his name is also where Absolute Zero AKA Ryan Frost inherited his name from. WriterRyan was also the one that answered quite a few questions back in the earlier years of the >G forums, however he hasn't made a appearance for quite sometime. This is all I know of WriterRyan.
Based on this however, I think WriterRyan has quite a bit authority when answering rule questions, is it on the level of Christopher? No, but with such a simple question as this, I believe it to be the right answer.
SP
Spiff
2013-09-29 22:32 UTC
#11
I believe it to be the right answer.
That's exactly the kind of non-absolutist tone I was missing earlier. Thanks. :)