Which heroes do you simply feel don't offer enough to a game for you to play them?
Are there any hero teams or pairs that you don't like playing? (Ex. Timmy took Unity? Well, if he took Unity, I clearly shouldn't take So-and-so.)
None.
Random selection all the way!
It really depends, sometimes we'll randomise, and others we'll choose our heroes. Everyone has favourites, but I don't think anyone has any heroes they avoid in particular. Occasionally we'll pick ones we know work particularly well together, though.
I have no problem playing any hero, I enjoy them all and see what each one offers. It's why I play using a random selection so that way I don't have to choose between all those lovely heroes.
Some heroes obviously work better together than others, but I have yet to see a hero team that can't work together.
For some reason, I very rarely play Haka. I know he can deal absurd amounts of damage and Savage Mana can be a real winner against foes like Apostate, The Chairman and The Matriarch, but he just doesn't appeal very often.
I also tend to shy away from The Wraith. I find that I often end up playing her the same way every time: InfraRed Eyepiece and either Throwing Knives or Razor Ordinance. I'd just as soon pick a straight damage dealer or a straight support/deck control character.
I'm not a fan of Heroes that have their base power as their most "powerful" power. Namely, Legacy and OmniX. Also not a fan of Wraith. Everyone else is awesomesauce.
I tend to try to avoid AA in our randomised G+ games, because all that chaining and fiddliness doesn't appeal to me. I'm fully aware that I probably ought to just play and learn him properly, but I'm often tired and somewhat brain-impaired so it just doesn't seem worth the effort.
That said, if my usual selection method (roll a die to pick one of the unclaimed pre-randomised heroes) gives me AA, I won't refuse to play him.
I never do randomness. I select heroes, and I'll play every hero eventually, but for the moment I'm putting the Argent Adept off for absolute last. The music shtick bores me, and his playstyle seems irritatingly complicated.
Other than that, I have a mild dispreference for Wraith because her Equpment synergy is just too efficient to be exciting. And playing Legacy isn't much fun; he's someone you want in your party, but you don't want to be stuck being the one who has to hold the pom-poms all game instead of actually doing anything. (And has cards like Surge of Strength but hardly ever actually uses them because he doesn't really deal damage much.) I put off Bunker and Fanatic for a fairly long time because the military and Christian themes didn't appeal to me, and I'm still a bit less likely to play Fanatic; Bunker on the other hand is just fun. Tempest is on the verge of beginning to bore me as well. Other than that, however, I just keep playing something different every time, and boredom is easily forestalled.
I'll always choose Chrono-Ranger over Mr. Fixer.
It sort of depends, often I'll go for long stretches without touching a particular hero and then go crazy with that same hero as I try to figure out either 1. Why I didnt like them in the first place or 2. New strategies that maybe I'll like them better. Recently I was on a bit of a Nightmist-binge after practically not touching her since IR came out. I've done the same thing for Absolute Zero and Mr. Fixer.
I play relatively few games as Expatriette. Ammo cards are frusterating and she never seems to have what she needs. Then as soon as she gets it, its Devestating Aroura and you're back to square 1. Fixer is more or less in the same spot though I play him just slightly more I think.
Argent Adept is at the bottom of the pile for me though. I'd rather play a hero that I feel is weak and fun like Mr. Fixer than one I find strong and a headache, which is where AA fits in. He's a good hero for sure, but I really dont care to have to search through my deck AGAIN and grumble to myself "freaking… melody/rhythm… which freaking instrument are you?". I'm also not a fan of "Arcane Cadence! … reveal 5, one in my hand, one on top of my deck, one on bottom of my deck, one in the trash and play… Arcane Cadence!.. reveal 5, one in my hand, one on top of my deck…"
Although, even lower on the totem pole, lower still that I actually forgot about him being a hero, so low that he's not even in the box… is the Scholar. For much the same reasons I guess. He just has to jump through way too many hoops. And even more than that… He has a cool factor of 0 to me. I can't get into him. He doesn't seem like a superhero. He seems like if you took the Justice Leauge and decided you needed a new member and so you were going to add The Dude. Don't get me wrong, I love The Dude, but I don't want him fighting crime alongside Batman and Flash. He kills the entire theme of the game for me.
I tend to avoid long turn characters, although I love NightMist (and I play her really fast and without hesitation usually). Having been on the receiving end of watching long turns, I try and avoid those.
I specifically avoid Tachyon because I think she's really really good, and it feels like easy mode when experienced players play her.
I specifically avoid Scholar because I feel like he does a lot of "nothing". He sets up for..."nothing", unlike Absolute Zero/Bunker/ExPat who sets up powerful damage combos, Scholar feels like he just sits there.
I tend to avoid Fanatic unless Legacy is in the game because she gets shut down by damage reduction very easily.
I tend to avoid Legacy if my group has long turn characters. Long turns by others just makes playing Legacy even harder as his decisions are often straightforward.
I avoid Legacy for the reasons that byc avoids Tachyon I guess.. I feel he's a bit too strong.
However, I often play the promo card Young Legacy, because I feel that without Galvanize she's right back where she should be. I love that card.
I love duos in SotM, so I normally pick someone who pairs really well with another team member.
My least Favorites to play:
Legacy: So powerful, so boring.
TLT: I love Tachyon, Team Leader is like hitting the auto-win button and clapping, more to do than Legacy but feels the same anyway, that base power being so good, blech.
Nightmist: She is not my style. Even good games with her I dislike.
Wraith: Really strong deck, has the single strongest card in the game (Impromptu Invention), but the goal is Utility Belt Micro and either razor/knives or double bolt every game. I just don't find her fun unless the villain is really thwarting her. She is a Hero I recommend to new players, she is great for learning the game, and my casual player friends tend to go back to her a lot.
Dark Visionary: It's not a secret that Visionary is my favorite hero, but her dark side I just can't get into. I think the whole base power of awesomeness is a big part, but also I love her original base power. The worst thing in a card based game is getting a bad hand, Visionary is the solution to that, Dark Visionary I just keep thinking I could have helped our team more if I used the original.
Envisioner you sound like a Crono-Ranger fan in the making.
We'll find out in a month or so…I've placed my order, and while I'm probably more likely to try Omnitron-X first, I won't know for sure until I've taken a look at them. (I tend to want to stay out of the deck so I can be surprised in play, but at least I'll see what the character cards do.)
I don't have any heroes that I never play (though I avoid using Sacrifice Tempest and G-Unity very much), but I rarely play Fixer and Expatriette. I never seem to get the cards I need with them.
Absolute Zero doesn't see a lot of play. He's a good character, but he slows down the game to much for what his output is. At least when nightmist or AA takes forever I feel like a lot of things happen
The Scholar has pretty monstrous damage output. My problem with him is that he feels overpowered.
Where's the AZ hate? I never play that guy. Too complicated, not enough fun.
I love playing AZ. The personality, the style, the complexity are all things I enjoy.
Most of the heroes I don't play as often (there are none I won't play) are those who are exceptionally powerful, such as Wraith, Tempest, or NightMist.
I love playing AZ. The personality, the style, the complexity are all things I enjoy.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. This isn't a topic for saying who you like, it's for saying who you don't play. Don't try to invalidate my AZ hate, man! ;)
(I don't really hate AZ, I just don't like him so don't play him)
Exactly. AZ is no fun, and no positive thoughts on this thread.
but if you don't play heroes as written but variants, should you include them?
Only if you hate those variants :P
I really don't like playing as Omnitron-X. He manages to feel both useless and overpowered at the same time, which is kind of impressive.
First off, for me at least, he always tends to be stuck with a bunch of self-destruct cards in his hand. 95% of the time, these things are only useful on the last turn of a fight. Did he really need that many? He plays cards so fast that he does everything important at the beginning of his turn, and then doesn't have anything to play during his play phase. Then there's the times where he gets set up, and suddenly takes 5 damage, which ruins him and makes me feel like I wasted my time. Also, his best power is usually just letting someone else do something interesting.
Meanwhile, he has his Bio-Beam that lets him completely invalidate the Environment deck, often making that aspect of the game a joke. He also has armor that trivializes certain villains, depending on the matchup. And letting other heroes play a card from the top of their decks tends to be completely broken, and not in a fun way unless it's Unity.
Plus, I hate having to shuffle his deck every time I use Reset. It's really annoying. Especially when I play a Reset, shuffle my deck, and then draw another Reset!
On a side note, I'm also not a big fan of Team Leader Tachyon. Ten times more powerful than Tachyon, sure, but probably ten times less fun.
As much as I love AZ, I cannot stand Elemental Wrath.
Apart from that, I'm pretty much ok with most of the alts. Of the... standard? I'm going with standard heroes, I'm not overly fond of Fanatic or Bunker, but I don't avoid them in particular.
This.
Also this. Having him say "Non-hero" was just mean.
He'd be strictly better than the original Absolute Zero if it didn't.
Technically with at least 2 damage increase and Isothermic Transducer the original power is capable of dealing more damage than Elemental Wraith's (since it is only cold), but yeah it would almost always be a better power if it could be turned on himself for healing.
He wouldn't be able channel fire into himself with his power
I find it strips the synergy from his deck, pretty much crippling him in any long game.
Why is that? Isothermic + Null Point + Thermal Shockwave still works, regardless of his base power. And, in a long game, that's not hard to achieve, particularly considering how easy it is to get (and restore, if destroyed) the two modules.
Not strictly; the original could choose to do fire damage to himself. And all of the promo heroes, except maybe for the Bunkers (though Initialize is pretty weak) are pretty much huge upgrades to the original power…not always entirely preferable, but usually stronger overall. Since Zero is just getting the same damaging power that Ra and Haka have had all along, I don't think it would have been unfair to let him zap his own NPCU to heal 2 damage, when Young Legacy is blasting for 4 with Surge of Strength, or Team Leader Tachyon is being ridiculous in general.
The thing I find weirdest about him is just the name. Is his suit of armor powered by magic now? If not, then it should be "Cryogenic Wrath" or something. I mean, it's technically valid, liquid hydrogen or nitrogen or whatever is an "element", but it just gives the wrong impression.
Which is pretty terrible, and you know it.
I definitely don't agree there. Not for Legacy, The Wraith, Fanatic, Ra or Tempest.
I believe it's been stated before that the armour doesn't give him his power, it allows him to keep his power under control.
I disagree that any of the promos are strictly better or strictly worse than their standard counterparts. AZ Elemental Wrath may not shine as much in long term games, but in short, fast paced games with equipment and ongoing destruction he won't be completely out of luck and can still contribute meaningfully to the battle, and if you get a bad hand and aren't able to get your modules you can still do damage to the enemy. He can still also still use his one shots with his modules, and so his main source of damage output is not really that compromised.
Even though I'm not a huge fan of RC Wraith, there have been situations where the power has allowed an environment card like Close Combat Quarters to be played out of turn and so the heroes were the only ones who got the benefits.
Although I agree that that TLT's power is generally more useful, it's not strictly better. Rapid Recon allows her to mill her burst cards faster allowing her to do more damage with a Lightspeed or damage more targets with a Sonic Vortex. Team Leader Tachyon sacrifices the ability to mill her own deck to support her team instead of just herself.
Elemental Wrath variant was meant to give Zero a niche that he doesn't always fill. It allows him to be on-par with other heroes out of the gate, and after an equipment wipe, rather than relying on literally 2 full turns of buildup before he can do anything productive. The fact that some people like the original variant better is in my mind, a mark of success for the card. I didn't want Elemental Wrath to completely eclipse Thermodynamics in every meaningful way, and that is why I suggested non-hero. If you're interested, the now older thread; https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/az-house-rule-experiment chronicles my efforts as I toyed around with house rules that eventually turned into the current variant. I can't say to what degree the designers agreed or disagreed with my insights, but presumeably they were at least thinking along some of the same lines. I messed around with it being 3 damage for a while, ultimately that did not make it into the final cut.
Basically Elemental wrath was intended to allow you to play Zero in games when it's not a good idea to play Zero. Like on Mars, or against Omnitron/ Citizen Dawn. It also opens up some new playstyles that focus more on Cold Snap and Impale rather than Modules.
I agree with awp832, The promo AZ gives him a fallback of dealing damage, instead of the usual fallback of play null-point and heal one when your hand stinks.
I also dislike the Tempest/Ra draw engine powers, those heroes don't need them. I never use those variants, although Ra's isn't as bad as Tempest's.
Fanatic's I don't like, but that is because it takes her from being an almost purely offensive force to having more options. Fanatic is a damage first, damage second, I don't care if you hit me machine of villain slaying doom. Even her defensive options are aggressive. Redeemer is a good promo, as it changes her style to be more strategic, and less jump in and throw as much damage as possible.
Young Legacy is perfect, making a Legacy that is more about the self-damage boost and nuking is cool, and still really powerful.
I don't use the Wraith's promo's, even though I have them, I do like price of Freedom, gives her a nice fallback damage source without letting it get boosted by MTC. Rook City Wraith I like the idea, but I don't like using her.
Team Leader is the only one that is obviously more powerful (in a team win% up manner), but she is replacing Legacy, and needed a boost the whole team ability that works with her character.
I will not play mr fixer against apostate, because it makes it too easy. Apostate has damage reduction and mr fixer had irreducible damage
That's the whole point of Irreducible damage. Without that, Mr. Fixer would probably be a bit too weak.
(IMO, his Strike ought to be irreducible, just so it's not strictly worse than Haka's power.)
If only he could have riveting crane and alternating tiger claw in play at the same time (without Fixed Point)
Having actuall played Unity now, I find that having a hero who lets her play cards outside her turn (such as Omnitron-X) is likely to make her take over the game. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm happy getting stuck when I play her without such help, but with the help she seems too easy.
Also Bunker has started to bore me after having initially seemed fun. And I'm definitely getting tired of Tempest too, he's just so good.
Chrono-Ranger goes on the list of characters where his power only deals 1 damage and that seems sad to me, along with Mr. Fixer. However, I haven't actually played CR yet, and playing Fixer was revelatory in that respect, so I'll wait and see.
For a change of pace, have a game where Bunker is feeding Unity. It is an interesting challenge to keep him effective while keeping Unity effective, and it changes the usefulness of Upgrade Mode.
Forgot the Visionary. I'm done with her for a long, long time after how badly she dommed Omnitron in my second game against him. Being able to repeatedly blank the villain's entire turn is just way too good. Maybe against someone like Chairman or Citizen Dawn it would be more tolerable, but it utterly neutered a villain who I already thought was rather weak, and was trying out again with what I thought was a deliberately rather weak party. Unity was the one that actually killed Omni, but Visionary made him useless for long enough that it could happen, and that was just too pathetic to repeat anytime soon.
(From a flavor perspective, Visionary shouldn't be able to affect Omnitron or his Devices at all; they don't have brains! The precognitive stuff could still work, but it really feels like they ought to be immune to psychic damage and mind control. And you definitely shouldn't really be able to Wrest the Mind of a bomb. (Nevermind that it's a bomb that repeatedly blows up turn after turn if permitted to.)
I am on my phone now and can’t give a link, but Christopher has explained why it makes sense.
Oh I'm sure there's some Phlebotinum about how her psychic power works equally well on the electronic activity in a mechanical "brain"; I can grok that if I try, I just think it's a bit sad that I have to. You can justify anything in Fictionland, I'm just saying that in some cases, it sounds silly enough to need justifying, whereas in others it seems perfectly natural, and the latter tends to indicate better writing as a rule.
https://greaterthangames.com/comment/900#comment-900
Here is his reasoning.
Thanks!
Hm. Okay, let's move on to a semi-related tangent. We're told that when Visionary came back in time, "something" came with her, the menacing silhouette seen on Mental Divergence and her incapacitated side. I'm guessing that Dark Visionary is meant to represent her under the influence of this entity. But is there any more to it than that? Is this just a background element to give the character more flavor, or does it have the makings of a major story event a la Iron Legacy?
What I'm thinking is, we already know from IL that it's possible for a character to have more than one Nemesis. (In fact, once Vengeance comes out, Wraith and Tachyon should have three each!) So, even though we've had The Dreamer, is it possible that we'll see another Villain who represents this dark entity from the future, once it breaks free of Visi's control?
If you compare Visionary and Dark Visionary's color scheme and aura (can't think of another word for it) to the Dreamer's front and back side, you will see that the front is the same as Visionary and the back is Dark Visionary. So there is a lot of story and mystery behind this entity that supposedly has came back in time with her. Is it enough to make a villain deck of it? Perhaps, but I am not sure how fun it will be to have 3 different Vanessa Longs running around.
Yeah, Visionary is wicked, just read her flavor text.
A lot of heroes have a villain or villains that they can just crush with the right hand, Wrest the Mind on the EPE is one of the best examples, End of Days on Akash is an equal one.
Visionary cannot shut down villains that play two cards a turn, or that shuffle the villain deck to start the villain turn (stupid boat), villains that destroy all ongoing (so you can't protect her lovelies) also hurt her alot.
You seem to have had a very good game with Vis, I've had games where Legacy dominated the villain ridiculously, or where Tachyon ran through her deck super fast and hypersonic and lightspeed barrages owned the game.
Then there's matches where Haka ends up with his deck in his hand because the environment deck is feeding him, or games where he just eats the villain deck.
Each hero can have these games, heck I've had games where Fixer dominated the battlefield (I think it is Rat with H=3 that Fixer destroys)
Like has been said they didn't try to balance the heroes to be equally powerful, but tried to balance teams to be equally effective.
My solution has been to alter the villains to make the easier ones harder, and introduce new twists to them. It has been a lot of fun.