Sensei Fixer

I know that proposed fixes to Mr. Fixer have been done to death, but this one came to me while thinking about Team Leader Tachyon.  The proposed Mr. Fixer is simply this:

Power:  Martial Instruction. Mr. Fixer deals one target one melee damage. Mr. Fixer may discard a card, if he does, one player may draw a card.

To my knowledge, it would be the first time that a base power would do two things semi-concurrently. I see no reason other than thematic that powers – even base powers – should not.  Given that Mr. Fixer never gets an upgrade power, it doesn’t bother me in this case.

This resolves a couple issues with Mr. Fixer, he gets an improvement in team utility, there is a good reason to keep his hand from growing to crazy depth, and it sort-of becomes a search ability.

This is potentially re-opening a can of worms, but the board was a little too quiet this week anyway (at least for us non-playtest[redacted]s)

Not bad--definitely straight up better than Fixer as is, so you'd need a HP reduction if you're proposing this as an alternate card.

Also, this doesn't solve the Overdrive issue, in that Overdrive relies on Fixer using the "Strike" power.

I'm guessing the "Discard a card" effect is meant to compensate for that, but I definitely agree that it's no "Haka of Knowledge".

Yes it has been quiet on all forums aside from the playtester ones. Sadly the forums only really pick up when a new product is announced or when a product is being delivered. Here's to October! When two products will be released, the buzz will be crazy!

Well, let's do some high-jacking: here's my current idea for tweaking fixer.

> Strike

Power: You may play a card. Deal 1 target 1 melee damage

Thing is, I didn't like the other 2 're-mentioned' fixes for different reasons. The "discard a card, do 1 more damage" thing is in the 'converting cards to damage' area and for me treads into Haka/Bunker's territory type of mechanic/theme. I just don't dig the overlap, even if not big. The "1 extra damage if you change stance" just... dunno, doesn't fit thematically: hitting harder just because changing positions... *shrug*. Mechanically is either "sacrifice a good stance for extra damage this turn" or "just play a stance for +1 damage". In both cases what actually kills the varaint for me is that they just feel like a way to give Fixer a base power of 2 damage with some workaround to not make it look like that.

What I aimed to do with that power is linken Fixer to something closer to what's Tachyon style but on a different way: instead of dropping cards just because, it allows you to in 1 turn completly shift your stance/tool to adapt to the new situation. Early in the game it allows you to go into stance/tool (if you draw them) right off the bat. After that, it allows you some combos that are otherwise slow (or weaker) plays: Overdrive + Bloody Knuckles (+powerx2), Riveting Crane + B Knuckles (breaking reduction ASAP for the team), Jack Handle + Charge (+power), double Toolbox, etc. While getting Monkey Fist / Crowbars or Mantis / Pipe are still powerful stances which you might not want to leave ever, you still have strong plays outside of it. AND all of this while still maintaining the flavour that he is a low damage output hero.

The only thing I don't like this is that it makes Grease gun optimal play during the power phase (in that case, you don't get the 1 melee damage, no easy way to write it to avoid it though). Next turn you go S Yard, Grease gun again. This combo is still bonkers and you can play it on consecutive turns, still I don't think that actually puts him above the power curve compared to others.

I wrote some scattered lines of a way to analyze the cards for comparison (to some day write a guide, perish the thought though). Basically it's 1 damage = 1 point, 1 card = 1 point, (use of) 1 play = 2 points, (use of) 1 power = 2 points. Then doing the (proper) math for different powers and cards you can see how much points they pour into the game and have a straight forward way to compare different cards. For example, Galvanize (base power) does a variable amount, usually gives 3+ points into the game since your team ends up doing more than 3 attacks until your next turn and although they are doing the attacks, the points come from your ability. Pyre gives a static 2 points, when you 3 thanks to the staff, Pyre is doing 2 and staff adding 1. In any case, Legacy pours something like 4 points into the game per play/power and stays like that. Ra starts below that curve but ends up above. Fanatic starts even below but has crazy 10-20 point plays with the proper cards.

Anyway, this explanation goes to point out that Fixer (and Expat, in case) have a base power that is really low and their cards don't end up compensating for them. This also shows why passing your turn (which usually is something bad strategically, passing on 4 possible points (play/power) for 1 point (extra draw) is not bad/uncommon on this 2 characters, since their power is only 1 point instead of 2 (yes, I consider Expat's power a 1 point in that case). Aaand talking about this is really going on a tangent to make a constructive discussion impossible.

PS: my current (not original) idea for Expattriette is Load: Play a Card. If you do, draw a card. I read some one thought it broken. My test-runs with the deck and math tells me that makes her just fine in her role. So yes, in both cases I'm putting more points into the base power but in a way that makes the hero play better with their deck.

And to not make THAT much highjacking, my thoughts on sensei fixer is that I would almost always use the discard ability since most probably another hero will be able to get more out of my card than me. Also Toolbox would be my favourite card in my deck. I do think though that you were successful in going for Fixer the same style as TL Tachyon (which as briefly described above, is 3+ points worth it compared to the 1 point of regular Tachyon [were her deck does make up for it], you went for it without really adding points to the ability so kudos).

i have yet to play as Mr Fixer due to a lack of Rook City but from what I hear Fixer needs Fixing. Sensei Fixer soudns good in my opinion, and I could totally see him in a gi the same color as his Symbol.

Don't believe everything you read, not even on these forums (and especially if Christopher says it!).

I...actually really like this idea. might just try it out.

All half truths. Mr. Fixer is the one who fixes. Not the one who needs fixed. That is the essence of his deck.

People try and play him like a melee bruiser and get disapointend quickly. They come to the forums and suggest multiple changes. A lot of them give him +dmg. Go figure.  

Foote - I agree that, wihle it would be nice, Mr. Fixer doesn't need more damage potential.  Being able to turn everyone else's damage irreducible is huge. What I was trying to do was capture Mr. Fixer's more engaged days. 

Drakossozh – thanks!

PePe QuiCoSE - *whew* that’s a lot of hijacking.  That said, your points regarding Sensei are spot on.  He’s meant to be effectively handing his hand size to other heroes – he's passing on his knowledge.

One of the annoying things I see with Mr. Fixer is he tends to have a large hand with not much reason to use it.  The fix proposed in your post makes this issue a bit worse.  I was looking for a way decrease his hand while continuing to be helpful.

PlatinumWarlock – I hadn’t thought of the hit point reduction, but agree that it’s necessary.  Do you think 2 points would be about right?

The Overdrive issue is trivial to resolve, since SotM generally isn’t keyworded.  Change the power to the following:

Power:  Strike. Mr. Fixer deals one target one melee damage. Mr. Fixer may discard a card, if he does, one player may draw a card.

Or

Power:  Martial Instruction. Mr. Fixer deals one target one melee damage. Mr. Fixer may discard a card, if he does, one player may draw a card.  This power counts as “strike”.

While the first correction is more efficient with the language, the second captures the fluffy intent of the proposed power.  Do your prefer Hemmingway or Patrick O’Brian?

There are people who perfer Hemmingway?

Uhm… not following your point there. How is allowing Fixer to play more cards per turn make him have a large hand and not be able to use it? It does gives him more felxibilty to loop Toolbox, but then he'll have the plays to make use of those cards. His cards have a lot of synergy between them and being able to play them together makes for instant effect, instead of waiting a full turn to get them working. For example: a guy appears making all vialliain gain -1 damage taken (ie, Gene Bound Guard). Dropping Mantis + Pipe Wrench (which could be ruling hard) for Riveting Crane + Crowbars/Knuckles to make your team happy, and the following turn go back to Mantis/wrench is viable with the extra play. Without it you could probably just let the team deal with the DR for the turn, killing the guard and you keeping the strong stance.

It is true that if you keep a stance your hand will grow without immediate use. Keeping your options open IMO makes a more interesting situation. With Sensei Fixer, since I would have less cards in hand, I would be more incentivized to just keep a stance/tool for the villain of turn. I see your goal was to deal with the "give the big hand a use" issue, which you do but IMO stales his gameplay a bit more.

Where are you getting extra plays from? The proposed Sensei Fixer lets another hero draw a card, not play one. 

Sorry - I read this at about 1:30 a.m., to early for good thought or apparently cognition.  Play a card vs. draw a card.  Even then, Mr. Fixer more often than not has cards he really doesn't want to play in his hand because the combo in play is optimum. 

from my hijack-first-post in this thread =) (Strike | Power: You may Play a card. Deal 1 target 1 melee damage). Amnachaidh was cool enough to comment on it and I was asking why he thought what I quoted, while providing points on while I see the opposite.

Looking back into Sensei Fixer, I see makes Fixer closer in style to Legacy.

Mr.Fixer doesn't have carry damage, and his utility does not involve card destruction.  As such his "fixing" is limited and not suited for a lot of situations.

He's quite valuable in many fights, but it depends on him having the exact right combo of cards.

I hear him compared to Expat a lot, Expat is underpowered when she's expected to stand alone, but with boosts she's a great carry.  Fixer benefits from boosts, but he's never going to run with the big damage dealers.

If he was more of a carry, his utility would make him really great, or if you could reliably have the right cards, his utility would trump any extra damage another hero would do.

One of my favorite expiraments with him we allowed one extra tool or style in play, so you could have two tools and one style, or two styles and one tool, it made him really fun and powerful, probably too powerful (Jack handle/Tiger/Crane) the real strength was you could situationalize him without giving up a key combo.

Many times when we first take on a villain in advanced we hand pick a team we think is best suited to win the fight, and we've won about 80% of those.  Mr. Fixer ends up on most of those, he's a great compliment to a strong three-hero team.

I Love Fixer-Adept, playing Overdrive out of turn, or grease gun after you already took your turn is awesome.  Vis is great as well for Twist the ether, it's a free greasemonkey fist, although there is usually a better option for TtE.

Fixer just isn't a top teir Hero, and I'm starting to appreciate that these heroes exist in Sentinels, comic book universes need b-list heroes, that come in handy when their special set of skills is called for.  Fixer in that way seems a bit boring, your role in many fights is to get out the right combo and then keep using it while cycling grease gun effectively.  Sitting there with Hoist-chain/Tiger whacking Matriarch every turn isn't super fun, but it does make a huge difference, just like Jack Handle(or crowbars)/driving mantis is awesome vs. Plague Rat.

I think the best mod to Fixer might be to simply add "You may discard a card, if you do, draw one card" to strike.  That would let him burn his deck wicked fast without building up a huge hand, and decrease your chance of not having the exact card you need.  It would give a similar effect as the OP, but without making him a support.

Sensei Fixer inlcudes that option though. He can choose himself as the card drawer.

All heros utility isn't suited for a lot of situations. I was unaware that any utility that isn't +dmg or insta card destruction is worthless. Man have I been playing weird if thats the case. I coulda sworn Grease Gun and Mantis and Salvage Yard ect. were extremely useful utility abilities. Silly me.

A critisism that can be validly levied against any hero currently in the game. Blast those dang card games and their randomly shuffled decks!

Plus it's a team game - don't have what you need? That's okay - either someone else will be able to let you find it, or they'll be able to do the job themselves while you do something else. I would expect any hero to potentially be totally crap by themselves, since the point of the game is that they aren't by themselves. Yeah, Ra can nuke everything but if some nasty non-target Ongoing or Environment card comes out, there's nothing he can do about it if it doesn't have a destroy condition. Meanwhile the Adept can do a bit of everything…but if you're planning on spam-killing targets you'll have to settle in for a long game, assuming you survive it with your 24hp starting total…

Sensei Fixer inlcudes that option though. He can choose himself as the card drawer.

I know, but the option to give others cards turns fixer from a utility "fixer" to a support champ, I think it is a step too far in that direction.  By limiting it to just himself he can cycle his deck faster to get the right cards.

All heros utility isn't suited for a lot of situations. I was unaware that any utility that isn't +dmg or insta card destruction is worthless. Man have I been playing weird if thats the case. I coulda sworn Grease Gun and Mantis and Salvage Yard ect. were extremely useful utility abilities. Silly me.

Take Fixer's utility vs. the Wraith, or Tempest, or Haka, his utility is not a one-shot that leaves you able to do other things, his utility takes his whole turn.  I'm not at all saying he's worthless, I'm saying there are very few circumstances where he isn't fully replacable by characters that do more damage or do destroy ongoing cards.

The fixer has more utility than others, but he sacrifices a lot to get it, esp. considering he doesn't have any ongoing or environment destruction.  He's not worthless, just not as strong as other heroes.  He does bring some strengths that others don't, and he can really hurt certain villains with the right cards.

A critisism that can be validly levied against any hero currently in the game. Blast those dang card games and their randomly shuffled decks!

My point was that his unique style of utility relies on combos that generally involve two cards to use, so he's a little more card dependent than others, and you seriously can't believe that all heroes in the game are equally effected by bad draws.  I understand that bad draws hurt everyone, but the probablility and level of effect differs between them.

In the ideal situation, Mr. Fixer gets outshined by others damage, and in bad situations he needs the right cards to do anything.

Comparing what one hero has to another is not a worth while endevor. There is a big difference between "balanced" heros and "symetrical" heros. You also throw out the all important factor of how those cards work and function within its own deck. That is like taking a huge quote out of context and missing the original point.

He is not worthless. You are right. He is not as strong as other heros in some areas. He also is much better than other heros in some areas. Welcome to the definition of "balanced" in game design. 

Actually that was exactly what my longwided description of the point system into the game per turn is aimed to. Successfully doing that gives you a good framework to compare the contribution of each Hero to the game strategically, ignoring tactical considerations. Doing this in my head convinced me that Legacy is always high in the curve. Hero's like Fanatic and Bunker match up the power curve with the proper cards. Fixer consistently falls short. This matches my experience in games and it seems it matches other's too.

In any case, it looks phantaskippy thinks similar as you "he is strong in some areas, weak in others" but he proposes a way for him to get his strengths faster, when needed or even at all (since you can't fetch tools from your deck).

So 3 different variants, 3 different goals: Sensei Fixer being a team support char, Selfish Sensei Fixer (he may discard 1 card + draw one card) to fetch his combo-for-the-villain of the game and Frenzy Fixer to allow combos when he has a big hand.

I think the frustration that many have levied against Mister Fixer is that many other heroes have a much more consistent means of helping themselves through search/deck accelleration/strong base powers/etc.  With Fixer he has Toolbox, which can be great, but if you're stuck with Tire Irons and Jack Handles when you're facing off against Spite or Plague Rat it can be a real bummer having Adept, Nightmist, and Visionary focus entirely on Fixer finding a Pipe Wrench or Hoist Chain.

This isn't an argument of "Oh, Fixer sucks" or "This is why other heroes are better than him", mind you.  It's just an explanation of why a lot of people have their frustrations with him.  I can relate, and I think anyone who writes off this criticism on one side or argues that this makes him fundamentally broken on the other are having completely different conversations.

I've had good games with Fixer, and I've had bad.  But with other heroes I had a much clearer possibility of helping myself, even if I didn't draw the cards I needed.  Does this make him broken?  Not at all.  Is this a valid frustration?  I think so.

To the the idea of alt heroes allows the hero to play in a different way because of the change to their base power and Hp. And I have yet to actually play as Fixer so I don't have an opinion to the Fixer fix issue. Yet.

This is a bit of a bad example, because Jack Handle is great against Plague Rat.

Because Plague Rat has so many other targets in its deck to hit? Do you mean Dual Crowbars? 

No, because if Fixer is Infected with Jack Handle out, instead of hitting himself he will hit all non-hero targets.

I always forget about those infections

Would Jack Handle keep himself from taking damage? There's nothing in the card about damage redirection. Yes, he would still hit Plague rat and any other non-hero targets in play, but I don't see anything that would keep him from taking damage unless there's a Driving Mantis in play.

Edit: My question is more of the fact that there is no instead or any wording like that in the text of the card. I know it uses the phrase would deal, but I'm not sure that means he wouldn't damage himself if another card is forcing him to.

It triggers on "would deal damage" not "deals damage", leading a an invisible "instead" on the card.

I still think it's kind of odd and maybe a bit unintentional, but I can agree with the basis of that since that interpretation keeps Fixer from going on an endless hitting spree.

A phrase of the form "When X would happen, Y" in Sentinels means that X doesn't really happen. Ending the sentence with "instead" would have made the sentence clearer, I think, but at least the phrase is always read in the same way.

Unless you want it to be stronger than out-of-the-box Fixer. Team Leader Tachyon is simply better than ordinary Tachyon, after all.

Sort of, TLT is better for the team at the cost of being worse for herself.

That's marginally. TLT ability is worth H (3-5) points each time it's played. It's actually more valuable early game since it diminishes the odds of a bad draw (or lack of combo) for everyone on the team. And it allows her to get her "get extra draws/plays" cards faster too. The hidden points it gets into the game are hard to account to (that is, for your team-members). More considering environment that makes you discard cards. The only downside is that you have a harder time getting low-end burst into the discard (like sucker punch, or the "hit-everyone" if there's some revenge damage) .

Regular Tachyon's ability is worth 1 or 2 points: 1 if she let's the card on top (the knowledge of the card is worth relative to the card) and 2 if she also puts it in the trash. Though that extra point is actually from Speed Barrage (but since the ability also makes you draw it faster, it can be a dual count).

So you are trading... say 1-3 points of damage per Barrage (x3 that's 3 to 9) against 1-3 extra points per turn. There's no contest there IMO.

And TLT has 1 more hit point, sealing the deal.

And yes, all posted variants of Fixer so far has been just plain better than his regular form so far.

It was said that it was simply better. Simply better means if it does 1 damage it, it now does 2. I am not saying it is overall better, but it is not "simply" better. It doesn't do the same thing as the original just more.

I do think you are underestimating Tachy's original ability. The only way TLT can put cards into her trash is by playing them. That means, every turn you aren't playing a Burst, you are losing some damage from Sonic Vortex and Lightspeed Barrage. This means that playing Hypersonic Assault actually decreases TLT damage (although it might be worth it), or you wont be able to wait for the best time to play a particular Burst, becuase you need it in the trash.

Research Grant also negates the issue. If you plan on using Research Grant anyways, then it doesn't matter what her base power is. Of course, you can use her base power until you get Research Grant, but that just means there are different strategies.

Tachy herself already has many ways to draw cards, and even a few ways to have everyone else draw cards. Having everyone draw 2 cards a turn instead of 1 is a big deal, but having everyone draw 3 instead of 2 doesn't have the same effect.

Before you start comparing the "points" you have to conisder:

1) How many turns TLT will use her base power. If there are only 6 rounds in a game, and you start using Research Grant after round 3, you only get points for the first 3 rounds, not every round.

2) How often Tachy and the other heroes will already be drawing cards. The more cards drawn, the less effective the ability is. In addition, if a hero has already reached there "perfect" setup, additional cards won't really matter.

3) If a villain needs a big burst of damage. With some villains having a big burst of damage could be extremely important.

4) How many villain targets come out. Great I have an extra card, I just wish I had another burst in the trash so that I can hit all the targets I need to this turn, instead of playing a burst.

I am not saying that TLT isn't better, but she isn't "simply" better.

EDIT: Just to clarify, Sensei Fixer's ability is "simply" better. There is absolutely no reason not to take his ability over normal Fixer's. While TLT might be better in many situations, I wouldn't automatically pick it over original Tachy. It would depend on who the villain is, and who the other heroes are.

Finally pulled off the AZ/AA/Vis/MF combo today, got both TtE out, it was ridiculous.

It was vs. Voss with his reduction going, so I went for Crowbar/Tiger with TtE.  Got even more ridiculous b/c we were in Primalis and ended with all three obsidian fields in play.  Playing Overdrive twice with Bloody knuckles in play, healing AZ to full while beating on Voss, then AZ Shockwaving himself to 3 health to kill Voss.  Man that was awesome.

I really just wanted to get that out, but the relevance to this discussion was how bad my starting hand was.  It got much better due to Vis and AA, and his damage got pretty good with TtE and a +1 from AA.  Mr. Fixer by himself would have been weak at the start with the reduction, and some extra draw power would be nice.

I've been playing him enough that I no longer think he needs a boost, but I think using these rules would make him stronger (without unbalancing him relative to other heroes), and help him in fights where he needs to stand alone.  Besides Promo/Alternate heroes are fun.

I would put Sensei Mr. Fixer at probably 25 HP, make him a kind of Mr. Miyagi character, not as tough anymore, and more focused on his students than himself.  Maybe an alternate timeline where his students live and form a vigilante group that helps clean up the neighborhood.

Shop Master Mr. Fixer (the selfish sensei version) I'd probably put at 27, and have the artwork have him in work coveralls, the idea being this version has access to his stuff more than other versions.

Street Vengence Mr. Fixer (discard for +1 dmg) I'd leave at 28, maybe even up him to 29, and have him look a little beaten up and nastier, like in retaliation the Chariman burns his shop and kills Charlie, maybe other innocents in the neighborhood, and Fixer goes out for vengence.

True, I do forget that at times.  My point is that there are moments when some of his Tools will provide a specialization that isn't terribly helpful in a situation and tearing through his deck to find one that will benefit the team can sometimes be quite frustrating.  It's nice that there are other heroes that can assist Fixer in that category, but it can be a disappointment to some players that a character who has so many fun and interesting combos must rely on luck of the draw to get some of them.  Fixer doesn't have a Summon Pipe Wrench, Onboard Tool Installation, or a Displaced Toolshed.  Toolbox is great, don't get me wrong.  But it is definitely a different kind of frustration when you get a bad hand with Fixer as opposed to other heroes who have stronger ability to obtain the cards they need for a given situation.

Again, I'm definitely not arguing that this means that Fixer is broken.  It's just a particular frustration that many players hold about him that I can sympathise and relate to.  That being said, Dual Crowbars with a Driving Mantis is all kinds of fun.

Yup.

Can. Of. Worms.

That said, 2 hp down for Sensei Fixer sound about right to people?

I dunno, it seems like people have come to a pretty reasonable understanding of both the praise and frustrations of Mister Fixer.  I'm happy to see that this topic is both active and civil, with very little back-and-forth that doesn't resolve with a mutual acceptance of what each side has to say about him.  It's interesting to see this subject change and evolve over the course of this forum's lifetime.  It reminds me of all the topics about Absolute Zero about a year or so ago.

I don't think MF "needs" fixing, but I happen to like what you did there for an alternate hero card. As a solution to the "strike" problem, we could give MF two base powers : the traditional Strike, and "Martial Instruction: discard a card, if you do, one player may play a card" . So you have to chose between damage and support.

It's a very thematic idea, I think, and interesting to play. Also very powerful…

TheSoundofTrees -

Thanks!  Sensei Fixer was intended to be more of an alternate hero who's more engaged with the world.  The hit point reduction suggested by PlatinumWarlock makes sense to me, but I'm not sure if we're talking 1, 2 or 3 points.  I was thinking 2, but that was pretty arbitrary.

Fixer doesn't have a Summon Pipe Wrench, Onboard Tool Installation, or a Displaced Toolshed. 

Displaced Toolshed is now my favorite (non) card.  The artwork would have to show a somewhat confused Mr. Fixer looking at an upside down toolshed that has somehow crashed into the middle of the street.

Meditation never seems to come up for me, and I end up sitting around with a pipe wrench, not tanking and hitting one minion for 1 damage because of reduction.  It is very frustrating because Mr. Fixer can be so great, but with the wrong hand he's terrible, and yeah, not enough pull.  Terrible is too strong a word, depressing is more accurate.

With card assistance he's great, but he's not going to be the damage dealer you want to focus on supporting, and if that hero gets a bad draw too, then Mr. Fixer ends up watching the fight more than anything else.  But when you get Tiger and crowbars and legacy gives you a boost and you have overdrives in the trash, Grease gun and salvage yard in hand and an AA following your turn the world doesn't seem so broken anymore.  Everyone else is like "Oh this damage reduction is ruining all my fun," and MR. Fixer is all "What damage reduction?"  While he eats minions for breakfast.

I will definitely try out these variants with some different HP levels.  I just wish I could commission some artwork from the original art team, then I'd make some actual cards and give the wrench a name.

I could try my hand st Sensei Fixer.  Can you give me an idea of what you want Sensei Fixer to be doing/wearing?

Awesome!  I picture him in a martial arts uniform, arms ripped off at the shoulders, handing a grease gun to someone off frame.  By height, it can be surmised it's Unity.

Question:  Is this fixer while he is still teaching the martial arts, or after?

If his arms are ripped off at the shoulders, how is he supposed to fight?

"I'll bite your kneecaps off!"

Grease gun in his mouth, of course. 

This is (perhaps in another universe, of course) how I see Mr. Fixer just before he dies. He used to teach normals, then became an auto mechanic. Later in life, he had to rejoin the fight.  This time, not only was it personal, but his allies were super-powered.  He began to instruct them in classical technique because, in his jaded eyes, the super powered were just flailing about hitting buildings about as often as their foes.

Then he buys it against [redacted], passing his hat to Unity.  She passes it to Golem Unity.

I'd go the same age he is, alternate timeline with his karate outfit, sleeves removed.  This version never stopped teaching, so yes still teaching.

The Scholar never becomes old and Fixer was never young...ever.

You mena the alternate timeline whre YL dies and Legacy becomes Iron Legacy? Hmmmm. I can do that. Give me time and I shall produce a rough sketch.

Cool.  I'm going to be off-line from Tuesday (giafiting for Pennsic), so I look forward to seeing it afterwards.

I just found this thread.  FWIW, Mr. Fixer was originally called Black Fist.  An alternate version with him as a teacher is very interesting, although I would try to find a way to make his power not strictly better than his base power.  He obviously has to have a way to deal damage, though.  Maybe make his discarding not optional?

dpt, all excellent points - I especially appreciate having "Black Fist" for information. He now, in my head, has a soundtrack from Death or Black Merda.

The idea of making it discard involuntary is interesting.  I'll need to think about it.  The HP reduction might need to be larger.

What if you combined this idea with another that was thrown around where he does 0 damage as the base amount from his power?  Then of course adding the right tool or style gives him a bonus to that.  Something like "Mr. Fixer does 1 target 0 damage.  You may discard a card, if you do you may choose a hero to draw a card."

Mr. Fixer has become one of my favorite heroes, it is my opinion that he is not a very strong solo hero, but a powerful tag team hero in the right group.

If you put him with someone who can make good use of his abilities he's a real bonus to the team, he pairs really well with a lot of heroes, and he can work different ways depending on who he is with.

Argent Adept:  I love this combo for villain lock down.  Play adept after fixer and fixer can play Grease gun without sacrificing his turn, also playing salvage yard out of your turn is amazing (for the free overdrive).  You can Vernal Sonata Salvage yard and use grease gun a ton of times in one game.

Fanatic/Crono/Tachyon/AZ:  Riveting crane is awesome for heroes that get crushed by damage reduction.

Expat and Visionary:  Putting these three together has become a go to group for me, with Vis you solve both Expat and Fixers deck woes, and they really shine together, esp if you get speed loading and burn your ammo then salvage yard them back to your hand for seconds.

Bunker:  In turret mode discard extra equipment, then Fixer puts them back into your hand without drawing.  It's pretty sweet.  Fixers incap is even better, as you can burn auxillary power units every turn or refuse to pay for gatling gun and get it back.

Anyone with multiple targets that can hit heroes he can double up with driving Mantis.

I've fully reversed my earlier position that Fixer was underpowered, His Main drawback is if he gets a slow start, or all the wrong tools, but with a little help in that regard he'll be a great asset to any team.

I still love alternate heroes, and since Fixer needs strike to be his power, ours are probably the only ones we will see.

Thanks!  I really like your points regarding Mr. Fixer's team ups.  I hadn't thought how good Bunker/Fixer can be. 

I realized the other day that that's one of the big reasons for different appreciations for Fixer (and weak heroes). I play mostly 3 heroes, so having a dud one in the team is huge. In a 5 hero game you could have 1 hero not play and still win. So if you have one weak hero in a big team but that does some gimmicky that the rest can't it doesn't feel so out of place since you contributed with something or did something cool. OTOH, with 3 heroes you have much less margin for error so the weaknesses of each hero are more evident and they feel much more frustrating. Also the jump from 5 to 4 heroes is smaller than from 4 to 3.

Grease Gun is among the most powerful hero cards in the game but it's better with 5 heroes than with 3 because you are sacrificing 1/5 of your turns instead of 1/3. Even with having Argent make you play it out of turn, with 3 heroes you have only 1 left to be dedicated to dealing damage. Fixer plays his turn, but doesn't deal that much damage anyway.

My last tweak for Fixer has been 'ignore official rulings' (besides playing with "deal 1 damage, you may play a Style or Tool"). I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't resist a agood anlysis but damn, that makes Fixer intimidating! Ignored ruling goes for Crowbars, so being able to duplicate damage incresase, and the same for Jack Handle, dealing damage to the target and then to all non-heroes. That makes Bloody Knuckles serious business. I guess that puts him somewhere around Tempest's level of badassery, so needs more thought.

With that I realized one funny thing, Jack Handle is the best tool to use with Bloody Kunckles (offical ruling); target yourself = +4 damage to all non-hero targets.

With that I realized one funny thing, Jack Handle is the best tool to use with Bloody Kunckles (offical ruling); target yourself = +4 damage to all non-hero targets.

I don't think that works, as it would be redirected before Fixer's increased damage taken would be applied, just like if you target a villain with DR2 you would redirect to all targets before applying reduction, same as Dual Crowbars.

Before target based modifications come into play it is redirected to your initial target + one other with Crowbars, or to all non-hero targets with Jack Handle.

I feel the 3-hero team issues, a lot of heroes aren't great in 3-man teams.  I've done TLT, Fixer, Expat with success, but that's it for Fixer.  You really need damage from everyone in three hero games.  I've never played 5 heroes, I almost always do four.

why not? it's not 'redirected'. Bloody Kunckles reads "damage dealt to" and "dealt by". Jack Handle reads "would deal damage to a target", he deals that much damage".

I understand that if you target a guy with DR2 with Jack Handle, everybody gets hit with the damage it would have been dealt to that guy (with reduction applied). Same goes for crowbars, reduction applies twice. Wasn't there a thread around that talked about this? I remember an example of Fixer targeting Tempest with the Hurricane card (that increased damage dealt to Tempest by 1) increasing his damage output. Anyway I merely skim over those threads when they get too techincal so might be off.

That's not how it's intended

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/answers-to-debated-questions-3871

1. Do you choose a target while using Jack Handle?

No, it is an automatic effect, so you will read strike as "do all non-hero targets 1 melee damage" or any other damage he can do pretty much. So targeting Fixer when he has Bloody Knuckles doesn't cause Fixer to deal out 5 melee damage to all non-hero targets.

You also don't apply a target's soak to other targets - if you're hitting Condemnation for two with Dual Crowbars, it'll only take one as it has one point of soak. If your second target is then Apostate (assuming no Fiendish Pugilists are out), he'll still take two. It's only Condemnation's personal soak that blocks one damage - this doesn't extend to other targets. Similarly, if you tried hitting Condemnation with the Crowbars for two damage and the Orb was out, the damage would be redirected to the Orb and remain at two points because the Orb has no soak. Then you could still choose the Orb as your second target and whack it again for two, because your first target was Condemnation - it just got redirected.

If you'd instead used the Jack Handle, you'd attempt to deal your base damage to everything, but only the things with soak would block it - you wouldn't apply the same soak to everything if those targets didn't have any.

ohh mis-remembered badly then. Well more like I checked Spiff's document (probably not the latest one) and wasn't there. Oh well, more variant time!

Played some games the other day after a long break. A 'Shop Master Fixer' (deal 1 damage + fiscard a card. If you do, draw a card) is the best version of these (which I tried). The variant I was using back is rather awful in retrospective. The reason I think this now is because Fixer's deck has different cards specialized for a task (and few draw abilities): what brings this together is a main power that helps you dig for those. Each turn you face a decision if you should discard to dig, and then what to discard. Even if you start with the cards you want, it takes at least 3 turns to put them down (style/tool/harmony) you'll always want more Overdrives, Charge, Salvage Yard or Grease Gun.

So basically IMO phanta was spot on on this, quite some time ago.

I think it's relevant to say that I have been playing style/tools reversed: styles go back to hand and tools get destroyed. It's another thing that just feels more intuitive and thematic when playing. He drops a weapon to grab another but he doesn't forget how to fight and can go back to how he was doing it five minutes ago. It also feels more cohesive with Salvage yard. Dunno how much it changes (I rarely changed stances/tools) but I liked it.

Oh, also changed Riveting Crane in that it still works if it's reduced to exactly 0 damage (not below). Basically if you can deal as much damage as the target has reduction, you break their reduction. In another sense, it's like a ghostly +1 for targets that have damage reduction. Felt RT needed a bit of love to work as-is, specially early game when DR is common in a lot of Villains.

My favorite version of Fixer is:

Mr. Fixer deals 1 target 0 melee damage. You may draw a card or discard a card, if you discarded another player may draw a card.

His damage is lowered to compensate for the extra utility.  As you said in your post above it really helps him dig for those cards he wants and needs. It also plays into a more team support roll as after you have plenty of cards in your hand you can start getting rid of them to help others draw extra.  Of course it is completely a personal choice but this is may favorite version of Fixer that I have used by far.  I doubt I'll ever play the normal fixer ever again, but the Dark Watch one is still quite interesting.

I don't think you need to lower his damage honestly :-P With 0 damage output... Mantis is the only Style unaffected (and it's a good one) so it's kinda your priority for styles, similar to Pipe Wrench with the damage reduction. I think that that version makes him a drawing engine for the rest of the team but... not sure I would find fun playing it. Seeing your other variants I guess we have different taste.

You might be right, but I was trying to have at least some trade off.  In practice it isn't to bad since I end up with a working harmony card much more often due to the extra draw.  Previously it always seemed like I was missing a either a tool or a style or harmony itself.  I will say that when you hav mantis stance and jack handle out together without harmony its quite disapointing.