Start of Turn

So I had a game the other day and I wanted to check to make sure I played this correclty.

Enviroment was Mars Base and the Self Destruct sequence is out.  I was playing Omnitron-X and had a couple components out that act at the start of his turn.  Can I have my start of turn card actions take place and then skip the rest of my turn for the self destruct sequence?

Similiarly, the scholar is in play and has two or three elemental forms out.  Can he skip the rest of his turn for the self destruct sequence and then skip the discard piece on his elemental form?

I hope these questions make sense.

It depends on the order of play. If any of Omnitron-X's components were in play before Self Destruct Sequence all those would take effect and thus allow to use those effects, any component that enters play after Self Destruct Sequence on the other hand would not be able to act as Self Destruct Sequence was in play first thus it's start of turn would activate first. Same with Scholar any element in play prior you would have to discard to keep while any after would allow you to skip over them.

Is that an official ruling or your interpretation? I could have sworn the official ruling was that anything that says start of turn is done at the start of the turn, and skipping one's turn is just skipping the play, power, draw, and end. I thought there was clarification in Spiff's sheet, but I can't find it atm.

Yes everything that says it's done at the start of your turn is in fact done at the start of your turn. With multiple start of turn effects you go by them in play order. Do any Start of Turn effects up until Self-Destruct Sequence, which states "A player may skip the rest of their turn to put the top card of the environment deck onto the countdown pile" it does not say "A player may skip their play phase, power phase, and end of turn to put the top card of the environment deck onto the countdown pile" or "A player may complete the rest of their start of turn phase then skip the rest of their turn to put the top card of the environment deck onto the countdown pile".

The operative idea here is that the turn-skipping is an option which itself is taken during the start-of-turn phase.  So, since all the start-of-turn things happen in the order they were laid out, if the components were out before the Self-Destruct Sequence, they would trigger as usual.  Then when you got to the Self-Destruct Sequence, you'd choose to skip the rest of your turn, which would invalidate anything that would have happened later, but doesn't affect things which happened previously.

This is an official ruling which I've got in my Clarifications doc.

UPDATE: Ronway, you're not saying that Omnitron-X would get to complete their start-of-turn phase after having chosen to skip the rest of their turn right?  As soon as that choice is made, then any remaining start-of-turn effects will not be triggerable, is my understanding.

I thought my post was quite clear that any component that was in play prior to Self Destruct Sequence can act and any component in play after Self Destruct Sequence would not act if the player had decided to skip the rest of their turn.

OK.. this is as I thought.  I find it difficult however to keep track of the order that cards where played.  I can keep track of the order of the villian cards, or my cards, but not the mix of the two.  I find that difficult and usually side with what ever helps the players.

Matt

Thanks both of you, I hadn't realized that the turn-skipping language was part of the start of play phase (and I don't think I've yet encountered a time when I would have had start of turn effects out after the card causing me to skip my turn, so I probably just always skipped the "so did this come out before or after that environment card" step in my head).

When the Sequence enters play you'll just make a different row for the components that are played afterwards. Or not play any more components if Omni-X plans on skipping his turn anyways, why risk their destruction if you're not going to be using them for awhile?

Just for the record, this was a killer combo.

The scholar pulled out three of his elemental states that allow him to do damage when he heals.  

Omnitron-X had out two of his components that healed three people.

The distruction sequence kept the scholar from needing to discard his cards.

We had a lot of fun with that.

I thought my post was quite clear

You're right, it was, after I re-read it.  I got hung up on something you said towards the beginning of the post which left me confused by the end.  My fault entirely.

This is my main complain about card order amongst different decks too. Each time this happens, we spend a couple of minute debating which card was played first.

this is why we typically ignore the order of play rule to save time and a headache. In this particular instance we would play it as such that if omni-x was to skip his turn for the self destruct then none of his components would trigger that turn. 

Does this mean if I play a card like Ground Pound, after Self Destruct is played. It stays in play if I keep skipping my turn. Since the skip action happens first?

Since ground pounds says "At the start of your turn destroy this card" Which is same wording as OmnitronX's i believe.

Yes you would keep ground pound in play since you're skipping before it's text to destroy it is read.

I think it would still be destroyed. I mean, I don't think you can just skip your turn? You can choose not to play a card during your "play" phase, and you can choose to not use a power during your "power" phase, but you're basically still going through them right? Start-Play-Power-Draw-End. Don't think you can just skip it, unless a card says that you can.

Also, wouldn't just skipping your turn to keep Ground Pound or Grease Gun or whatever kind of break the game?

It is correct that you can't skip your turn whenever you want to. This discussion however is about skipping your turn for Self Destruct Sequence, and if only 1 person every round skips their turn for Self-Destruct Sequence then they can effectively skip their turn for the rest of the game.

I'm seeing this as gamebreaking as well. Legacy could keep out Takedown for the entire game, if he made himself immune to energy damage before playing it, or had sufficeint healing,  the villain would never be allowed to play another card.

I think the least disruptive houserule would be that all hero "start of turn" effects happen, then you skip your turn for the self-destruct sequence, or any similiar environment cards.

Or, we can houserule that "at the start of the turn destroy" effects happen first, then you skip everything else, if the above feels too much in favor of the heroes, but I think that begins to detract from the simplicity of the game flow

Bear in mind that these gamebreaking scenarios are extremely specific. You have to have Self Destruct Sequence come up, have the gamebreaking card available, play the gamebreaking card after SDS comes out, and then skip every turn for the rest of the game until A)something clears the environment, B)something clears the gamebreaking card, or C)something the gamebreaking card doesn't break kills that hero.

It just strikes me as too specific to need a house rule to put into play. If you don't like that one gamebreaking scenario, just don't use it IMO. I don't see it coming up often enough to affect the stats project.

Edit: though for Legacy's energy immunity, he'd have to play Next Evolution after SDS comes out as well, or else his immunity would expire.

Legacy's immunity expires at start of turn?? I guess that's what I get for not consulting my cards before posting.

While it is very specific, and highly unlikely, it is something to keep in mind when discussing the ruling as a whole, IMO

Yeah, sux.  Legacy will almost never benefit from his own Galvanization because it gets turned on in the Power phase (after he's played any one-shots) and turned off in the Start phase (before he plays any one-shots or powers).

Technically, both are “until the start of turn,” which occurs at the start of the start of the turn, thus losing effect before any start of turn effects occur.

With Legacy ring you can still play Galvanize, then Motivational Charge. Or have Omnitron or Agent Adept let you play out of turn.

So I wouldn't say never

Actually, playing Galvanise out of turn wouldn't help - you'd have to Galvanise on your turn and take advantage of it (by deailng damage) out of turn - Galvanise runs out at the start of Legacy's turn so if he buffed himself with it on someone else's turn, it would still disappear at the start of his own. On the other hand, he can Galvanise on his turn, then Galvanise out of turn (eg via the Adept) to stack the buff twice, giving everyone else +2 to damage for the duration :).

I think he meant that AA could let Legacy play a one-shot or use a damage-dealing power out of turn to benefit from his already-active Galvanize.

Ah okay then :).