Fixed Point vs. The Dreamer

Had an epic battle to save The Dreamer today. I want to make sure I played this correctly as it brought up several questions regarding indestructible. 

The Dreamer had awakened from her slumber (I.e.-flipped), and had two projections under her card already. The whole team of heroes (Team Leader Tachyon, Argent Adept, Expatriette, and Dark Visionary) are in single digits for HP. We are facing certain destruction on the next villain turn from the Dreamer and two Arachnoids plus whatever she draws.

Dark Visionary, the last hero to go before the environment, plays a Decoy Projection and looks at the environment deck. She sees a Fixed Point and the Atlantean Throne Room. The throne room is not going to be good enough to keep any of us alive, so she rolls the dice on Fixed Point. Now, everything that isn't Fixed Point is indestructible.

The Dreamer plays several more projections, bringing her total to six. They unload on the heroes, but they're indestructible. We start tracking negative hit points. The heroes unload on the projections, with AA taking off the last hit point of the last projection, which are all also indestructible. All attacks on Dark Visionary are redirected to the (indestructible) Decoy Projection. She has two hit points left and enters a Telekinetic Cacoon, just in case. The environment turn comes and Fixed Point is destroyed, triggering the incapacitation of three heroes an the destruction of six Dreamer projections and one Decoy Projection that had soaked about 20 damage. The environment played something harmless. Start of the Villain turn and we win! Right?

My first question is: Did we play that correctly?

Also, do indestructible things go into negative hit points. It would matter for healing. If we can't get below zero, then AA could have healed everyone. 

Finally, AA can destroy any non-character card. How would that work while the indestructible modifier is on? I assumed it would do nothing at all, but I wasn't sure. Might it reduce the target to 0 HP? That feels like it would break…something. 

Sounds like you played it correctly.

I believe indestructible targets do go into negative hitpoints.  Typically I don't actually track that, but if there is a real chance to heal them (like here) you should.

If something is indestructible it just can't be destroyed.  Nothing else (like reducing it to zero HP) happens instead.

Agreed on both points.

Cool. It had been a while since I played. I'm glad I remembered and interpreted things the right way. And equally glad that such an epic game ended in a victory. 

The close ones are so much more fun. 

That story is flippin' awesome.  And sounds like it was played correctly!

I find it to be incorrect. Heroes are not destroyed. Destroying something means it is removed from play and into the appropiate trash. Heroes however become incapacited. When a hero reaches 0 or fewer health that hero is not destroyed, it simply flips. Since the flipping condition on heroes are when they are below 0 and not when they are destroyed they will still become incapped even if they are now indestructible.

I could have sworn the rulebook said that happened when a Hero is destroyed, but you are right it does technically say they become incapacitated when reduced to zero or fewer HP.
The rules for the villain character card has the caveat “Unless stated otherwise,” so I think they are clearly protected by Fixed Point (although Dreamer specifically says that you lose if she is reduced to zero HP). Personally, I would still rule that being indestructible prevents a hero from being incapacitated, but the rules are not as clear on this as I thought they were. If not, it raises the question of whether their other cards can be removed from the game, since being indestructible usually prevents a card from leaving play for any reason.

I think the trigger has to be when they would be destroyed as opposed to when they drop to 0hp, as at least one villain has a one-shot which destroys hero targets with 3 or fewer HP, so if the trigger was negative HP then it wouldn't activate, and the hero would be destroyed.

Either A: In the rule book they need to change the wording to the same as Dreamer so that way it includes both 0 or fewer and destroyed by something like Ennead's card (forget what... Grave beckons maybe?). Or B: When a hero does somehow get destroyed by another way other than Incap it removes that hero from the game, no incap abilities or anything. Honestly B sounds fairly exciting, adds a little more scaryness to the game, though I think A is most likely the route that things will go.

I think the rules are pretty clear what happens if they are reduced to 0 or fewer, as it specifically states what happens. The only thing that is not clear is what happens why they are destroyed, but as of right now I think the only non-hero that can do it is the Ennead though.

The Way I always interpreted it was this: Hero is reduced to 0 HP, Destroyed Triggers, Incapicated instead of destroyed triggers and the hero card flips. Same thing happens if a hero gets hit with a "destroy target with X or fewer HP" or something similar. 

Another thing to bear in mind regarding heroes being "destroyed" is the Unforgiving Wasteland card, where it says that stuff destroyed by the environment while that card is in play is removed from the game entirely.

Wait. Does that imply that destroy doesn't affect character cards? Hmm, that sounds familiar. Wasn't there something a while back about using a destroy effect on Baron Blade's 1st side?

That's why his first side now says "When Baron Blade would be destroyed, flip Baron Blade's Villain Character Cards instead"… but that was added because his second side is not the same villain as his front side, he's essentially a second character and destroying him would have skipped the whole second side of the villain.

If/How this affects something without HP on its second side is… debatable

Personally, I think the "reduced to 0 = flip" interpretation is clunky and makes things like Fixed point behanve in unintuitive ways. I don't know what the actual ruling is going to be, but the simplest way is to say that >=0 HP means destroyed, which is the same for all targets. For Hero character cards destroyed = flip to incapacitated and for villain character cards destroyed = win.

I'm inclined to think that Unforgiving Wasteland is meant to remove character cards from the game when they are reduced to zero HP. It seems like kind of the whole point of the card. Also, the other day I played Iron Legacy in Final Wastelend and Unforgiving Wasteland was in play when an environment target dealt the last point of damage to him. I REALLY WANT him to have been removed from the game. DON'T TAKE THIS AWAY FROM ME. ;P

Hmm, does that mean that any effects applied to his front side (such as Twist the Ether or any of Chrono Ranger's bounties) would be destroyed when he flips?

Cosmonaut, his character card specifically says he is immune to damage from the environment, so that couldn't have happened.

Ameena, I asked Christopher in person about the bounty/flipping thing (regarding the talisman, but it would apply to any character card with a target on both sides) and the bounties stay on the target when they flip, since they are still the same card. So on one hand, you get to keep Twist the Ether, Impale, and the like, but on the other you don't get to cash in your bounties by the card flipping.

Unless, of course, the other side is not a target, like the Ennead or the Operative.

the reason why they would stay on Baron Blade is that he is not destroyed the first time he reaches 0; he INSTEAD flips and regains HP.

Also, hero character cards can not be destroyed, only flipped.

Also also, Unforgiving Wasteland works on OTHER targets too, like bots and citizens.

Why? Infections do not go away when your character dies and flips.

On his B side he loses the environment immunity and gains a built-in point of damage reduction.

Iron Legacy doesn't flip when he reaches 0 like the heroes. So even when he does reach 0 he would still be destroyed and tus removed from the game.

YESSSSSS

because bounties say "when the target is removed from play." The CARD is still there, but it is no longer a target. Infections don't say anything about that.

Also, I never realized that Iron Legacy wasn't immune on his B side. So that's neat.

im still confused. I understand its no longer a target, but it was not removed from play…

the target part of it was. I know, it's kind of self-contradictory, but still.

Or, here's another way of looking at it. Infection says "place next to a hero character card." when you die, you are still a character card, and therefore it sticks. Bounties say to "place next to a target." If flipping causes it to no longer be a target, it no longer fulfils the conditions for having a bounty next to it, so the bounty registers the target as being removed from play.

oh i see. thanks for clearing that up. 

Yay, there's an official ruling on hero destruction/flipping over on BGG:

Essentially, consider the Hero Incapacitation rules to read: "If a hero is destroyed, by either being reduced to 0 HP or otherwise, then flip their Hero Character Card and remove all their cards from the game."

I could have gone either way with this ruling, based on the letter of the law, but given the option between, "Look, you just die when you reach 0 HP, regardless of indestructibility," and "Certain specific situations can make you go into negative HP temporarily and perhaps recover," the second is obviously more awesome and fun. So! If the above wording is the official ruling, (which it is), then that makes both Fixed Point from the Time Cataclysm environment AND Unforgiving Wasteland from The Final Wasteland environment much more exciting cards.

Enjoy!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11746368#11746368

Also: this means effects that would destroy hero character cards outright cause them to flip properly without any wonky exceptions.

Awesome! I can't wait to get Fanatic in negative health then...

EXCEPT: Unforgiving Wasteland, right?  The text you quoted means heroes killed by the environment don't get their incapacitated powers, right?

Correct.  It means if you get killed by the environment with Unforgiving Wasteland out, you are actually GONE.  Seeing as this is the only way this can happen, I think it's cool as hell

I’ve always figured the implied rule is that whenever a hero would be destroyed, flip his character card instead. This would trigger before Unforgiving Wasteland, as it triggers when a target is destroyed. (Even if it triggered when a target would be destroyed, the hero card was in play first.) This means that hero cards are never destroyed (thus never removed from game), only incapacitated. I believe I’ve heard Christopher say that as well. That would also count for The Operative and The Ennead. (This was discussed earlier in regard to Haka using Savage Mana.)

Actually, if you look at the quote from Christopher, the new ruling takes effect when a hero IS destroyed.  Unforgiving Wasteland triggers when a target "would be" destroyed.  This means Unforgiving Wasteland triggers before the new ruling on how heroes flip.

(I actually had this exact converstation with Christopher, so I'm pretty sure I'm right  )

Yeah definitely. Unforgiving Wasteland removes cards from the game when they would be destroyed which would trump the base rule, and Christopher specifically mentioned it.

I was thinking of effects that say "Destroy a target with 1 HP" and such. If the flip triggers if and only if HP <=0, then an incapaicated Visionary could take a Hero with 1 HP out of the game without flipping. Maybe you would want to do this against Plague Rat, if the hero is infected? Anyway, situations where it could happen are extremely rare, but they do exist and this way is clean and simple. This also opens the door for villain cards to have more destruction effects in the future without breaking Hero incapacitation.

RE: timing on Unforgiving Wasteland, it doesn't actually matter. Card rules trump book rules. If you want to walk that path, you might as well say you actually win if you kill The Dreamer because the rulebook says you win if you kill the villain.

Just to clarify, based on Christopher's wording, we will have to track negative hitpoints and not stop at zero, right?

How would Unforgiving Wasteland work on say Baron Blade then. Does that mean you win if you reduce his first phase while that card is out. Since he would be removed by that logic instead of flipping? 

Blade's flip-when-destroyed is on his card, so he would flip as normal.

So, just to get this straight, anything which just flips when it's "killed" will do so even if Unforgiving Wasteland is out, right? So this means heroes, Baron Blade, Apostate (if he has relics out), the Ennead, and the Operative? They act as normal and aren't removed from the game but everything else is?

Omg and on another note I've just had a thought as to how much easier the Matriarch would be with that card out...

Heroes aren't included since their flip condition is in the rules while everyone else is actually on the card themselves. At least that is the reason I see behind Christopher's ruling. So heroes really don't want to become incapped by the Final Wasteland.

At the same time though, thanks to the Fixed Point rulings where heroes can go negative health, Absolute Zero can infinitely hit himself with Fire damage when Imbued Fire is in play. Thus being about to one-shot and villian unless they have immunity. The only downside is to do that Abz will probably be severely in the negatives with now chance to revive. At the same time though any hero could hit him for fire thus allowing him to do it several times in one round, thus Ennead could also suffer. So Fixed point is pretty much an auto win with the combination of Ra and Abz. Even Visionary could help out with a Twist the Ether.

So…heroes are destroyed if Unforgiving Wasteland is out (and the environment kills them)? But villains (Ennead, etc) aren't?

That's the way it looks. as the order of play would take priority. Though maybe... It would still trigger a flip, then checks the Unforgiving Wasteland thus triggering it and removes the card from the came. So... It may just flip and then immediately be removed? I'm not 100% sure on which way it could go. Actaully I think I will retract my previous statement, I think it would remove everything from the game it destroys.

That'd be cool versus the Ennead, then :). And what about Baron Blade…I know it says that when he would be destroyed, he flips instead…but it also says on UW that when a card would be destroyed it's removed from the game…

Probably easier to just play it as "If it goes to 0hp it's out of the game" but then with cases like that, is it still so? Bascially, a list of cards who aren't removed from the game (if there are any) if taken to 0hp while UW is out is all we need, isn't it?

Well Baron Blade would flip and restore his health and thus no long would of been destroyed. So the Final Wasteland would curl up and cry for a little bit until their next turn. Same with Apostate, since he also would restore health. The only hero that can get around it is Fanatic with her Aegis.

Most ‘would’ reactions imply an ‘instead’ (assuming it doesn’t outright say it). The ‘instead’ states that the action has been canceled and replaced with a different action. Since the previous action had been canceled, it no longer triggers any further ‘would’ reactions anymore. This would prevent any of the flipping villain character cards. I still don’t like the idea of hero character cards being removed, as one of the big points that everyone at Greater Than Games would always point out that a player would never be removed from the game before the game was over, yet this would.

Most ‘would’ reactions imply an ‘instead’ (assuming it doesn’t outright say it). The ‘instead’ states that the action has been canceled and replaced with a different action. Since the previous action had been canceled, it no longer triggers any further ‘would’ reactions anymore. This would prevent any of the flipping villain character cards. I still don’t like the idea of hero character cards being removed, as one of the big points that everyone at Greater Than Games would always point out that a player would never be removed from the game before the game was over, yet this would.

Most ‘would’ reactions imply an ‘instead’ (assuming it doesn’t outright say it). The ‘instead’ states that the action has been canceled and replaced with a different action. Since the previous action had been canceled, it no longer triggers any further ‘would’ reactions anymore. This would prevent any of the flipping villain character cards. I still don’t like the idea of hero character cards being removed, as one of the big points that everyone at Greater Than Games would always point out that a player would never be removed from the game before the game was over, yet this would.

Sure, but do most 'would' reactions imply an 'instead', is what I want to know. ;)

I think that is one of the reasons why Final Wasteland is a mini-expansion rather then in a full expansion. For the reason that Unforgiving Wasteland is a odd card and triggers an effect that doesn't typically happen. The only things that caused removing from the game was when heroes were defeated would remove their deck, trash, and cards in play from the game or when heroes have achieved victory over the villian.

I like it. I think it adds an element of danger and impending doom when you know that a late game Unforgiving Wasteland can put you out of commission (which hasn't happened yet though). 

I'm having a terrible time following this, but since there seems to be an official ruling from Christopher somewhere in the middle there, I'd like to include whatever is being decided in the Clarifications FAQ.  But I don't know what to include.  Something about Time Cataclysm's "Fixed Point" and Final Wasteland's "Unforgiving Wasteland" and how it interacts with flipping character cards (I think).  Could someone sum up what the question is and what the decision was?  No opinions, please, I just need to understand how Christopher's ruling clarifies something that was unclear before.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/11746368#11746368 Is the link to Christopher's ruling.

I saw the ruling, and could just add that, but I'm not understanding the relationship between that and the rest of the stuff you've all been talking about.  Tracking hp below zero so that you could eventually get better from being dead ("he's only mostly dead")?  He says in the ruling that the ruling was made to make Fixed Point and Unforgiving Wasteland more exciting, but I can't follow the trail to see how it does that.  I think part of my confusion is that Fixed Point makes things indestructible and Unforgiving Wasteland makes destructed things go all the way away, so I'm having a hard time seeing the connection between the two.

I'd also like to include some examples of how Fixed Point and Unforgiving Wasteland would cause unintuitive interactions with other cards.  The point that you still couldn't bring in multiple versions of a Limited card is a good one, and pointing out that you could blow up the Staff of Ra over and over when Fixed Point is in play without the staff actually getting destroyed is good too.

I'm just looking for someone to wrap it all up in a bow for me, because I'm pretty lost. :)

Oh, I see. I thought you just missed what the ruling was. Ok I can set here and type it.

The reason it is exciting is that now that negative HP is now a possible it will give the heroes that have reached negative HP a chance to revive. So if a hero reached -1 health, someone like Tempest can use Cleansing Downpour and bring him up to 1, giving him his second chance at life. That's pretty exciting, right? What fun is it if the hero hits 0 or less and instantly flips when all cards are indestructible? Even if you can't make a comeback you'll at least know that this is your last chance to do something before you fall when Fixed Point destroys itself, so you can go all out. Such as Absolute Zero blasting out as much cold damage as possible, thus dealing himself the maximum amount of fire damage, since he no long has any restraints. Fanatic could easily break through damage reduction by Wrathful Retributioning herself, then follow up with a Sacrosant Matyr, thus dealing a mass load of damage to herself and to a villian. Even more awesome if Argent is there and allows her to play an Aegis that will instantly bring her back from being unsaveable to 10 HP.

As for Final Wasteland, its more scarily exciting, as he gives the heroes a chance to be removed from the game. If they weren't removed then the only hero that would give a darn about it is Unity, otherwise the villians are the only ones that would suffer. So being low health can make for an intense game if you're having trouble getting rid of it. It'll be the ultimate challenge to try and survive, or at least make it where the villian will do the finishing blow instead. At the same time, H = the number of heroes, if a hero is removed from the game that would mean H would drop aswell, so you could allow youself to drop by the Final Wasteland, thus causing H to drop, meaning! You could make H=1, and against certain villians that would make it that much easier to win.

Edit: Actually i'm not 100% sure if H would drop, but it makes sense... Though I guess that can't be added until an official ruling on that has been made.

Sorry, if I didn't clarify or even summarize it very well. I'm not too good with all that jazz.

Thanks, that's very helpful.

H dropping would be a logical and cool effect of Unforgiving Wasteland taking a hero out of the game, but I'd rather that was officially confirmed before I put it in the doc.

H would not drop - H is always the number of heroes that started the game. I believe Christopher has set that straight in previous conversations.

Was it that started the game? I always thought it was just the number of heroes Active or not. Eh, oh well. Guess Unforgiving Wasteland wouldn't be so bad if it did effect H. So its a must get rid of card if heroes are low health or Unity is around... And I guess if Visionary wants to play Decoy projections.

Okay, so just to clarify…heroes can be destroyed by UW, as can any villain or other target, except Apostate (if he has relics out) and Baron Blade (on his starting side). So I'm guessing that since heroes would normally flip at 0hp but can instead be detroyed if UW is out, this must mean that the Ennead and the Operative can too, since they would also normally flip at 0hp.

Have I got it now?

Almost. Heroes no longer "flip at 0hp" normally. When they would be destroyed, they flip instead. One of the ways that targets are destroyed is when they are reduced to 0 or fewer HP. UW says that whenever a target would be destroyed by damage dealt by an environment card, remove that card from the game instead. This means that hero character cards are removed from the game instead of flipped if killed by an environment card with UW out.

It looks to me that, based on this change and the way it functions, The Operative and Ennead character cards would not be removed from the game. The instructions to flip them instead of destroying them are on cards that started the game in play, so their effects will take place before UW. As much as I want it to work, it just doesn't unless Christopher wants to make another erratum.

The upshot is hero character cards CAN be removed from the game, while villain character cards that flip when they would be destroyed (such as the Ennead) CAN NOT.

The instructions to flip them instead of destroying them are on cards that started the game in play, so their effects will take place before UW.

That makes sense to me too, though an official ruling on it would be most bestest.

Okay, so everything can be destroyed through that card except the Operative, the Ennead, Apostate (if he has relics out), and Baron Blade's first phase. Unless someone official comes up and corrects that. Got it ;).

Still want to try that one on the Matriarch - UW plus the Skunk Ape (and plenty of soak on the heroes' part) when she has loads of cards out would destroy pretty much all her damaging capabilites. More satisfying will be getting rid of the Mask and her cohorts that way :D.

We had a game where The Matriarch was defeated by a Horrid Skunk Ape with Unforgiving Wasteland in play.  It made the flavor text on the Skunk Ape so much sweeter.

Hmm… Against the Matriarch, Unforgiving Wasteland says that when a card would be destroyed, it is instead removed from the game. When the Fowl cards would be destroyed, they are not destroyed (removed instead) and so do not trigger damage and card destruction from Matriarch and Carrion Fields.

She would still get her damage since you check order of cards played first. So the Matriarch would get to do her damage since 100% she was in play before unforgiving wasteland, then if carrion fields hit before it that damage would resolve first, then we'd get to the remove from the game effect.

No, I agree with theJayMann.  When the fowl would be destroyed, it is removed from the game instead.  So it is not actually destroyed and her effects do not trigger.  Compare the wording to Chrono Ranger's "No Executions", the whole point of which is to bypass destroy effects.

Now, if you feel that is an unintended side-effect of Unforgiving Wasteland, you could always house rule it to say it triggers when the card is destroyed, but that isn't what the card says.

That's what I get for not actually looking at my cards before responding. That's a good point I can see how it works that way.

Christopher said the exact same thing re: Akash'Bhuta's limbs. If they are removed, rather than destroyed, she doesn't hurt herself for them.

I played AB on Final Wasteland, and ruled that way as well.  It really extended the game a while, since we had to do quite a bit of damage to her personally, but her threat was greatly reduced with 7 limbs removed from the game by the end of it. 

The thought has just occurred that UW coming out when fighting the Chairman has the potential to make the game unwinnable if three or more Underbosses are killed by the environment (while UW is out) before the Chairman flips...

I seem to remember reading about that very situation in a post by Christopher (in a [redacted] form) and that that was aok in his book

Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting that it "shouldn't be allowed" or anything like that, just that it's one extra interesting facet of the game and something to be careful of if such a situation comes up - you might have to somehow protect the Underbosses so that the environment didn't mess up your game. Nice if it takes out the Thugs, though ;).

I'm still newer to the game, so my familiarity with every card is limited, but I'm curious to explore this idea. With Imbued Fire in play, Fixed Point allows AZ to have a one-time, infinitely large attack that will leave him X hitpoints below zero and deal Y hitpoints to a target, where X and Y are both hilariously large numbers. If Visionary's Twist the Ether is in play, he could also live through this attack, couldn't he? If he plays a card that allows him to deal any fire damage to himself, he can continue hitting himself with TtE's +1, and then he can use his power that allows him to hit a target* for however much fire damage he received since the end of his last turn. That power would allow him to recoup all that damage.

*I do not recall if this card specifically says he can hit a target or that he must hit an enemy/villain/nonhero/etc. target. If that's the case, at least he would get two infinite attacks in the one turn.

Coolant Blast only works on non-Hero targets. And for any finite number, Y is going to be a lot less than X, so there's really no practical way he could survive afterwards.

The card you are thinking of is Coolant Blast, which sadly only can hit non-hero targets.

He can do a lot more than two infinite fire attacks to himself. If Imbued Fire is the card that is allowing him to deal fire, it is also allowing all heroes to do fire. Thus every hero could target Absolute Zero and chain as many infinite fire attacks as each hero can deal instances of damage. Most heroes have a one-shot that deals damage and a power that deals damage, so at least 2 damages from each hero (Visionary is the only one I can think of that wouldn't be able to help) so it is pretty much an auto win! Aside from the Dreamer, Chairman (if unflipped), and Miss Information (If unflipped), it'll probably single handily win any game where it turns up. Of Course after Christopher reads this there might be a change, maybe. As of right now it works as intended though!

Yes, I imagine that if the Final Wasteland absolutely obliterates a certain number of the Chairman's dudes, his thought process will shift to stranding the heroes there while he gets back to his own time scot-free.  Call it plan "SCREW THIS."

A friend of mine brought that up in the playtesting forum.  We gave it a shot to see how terrible it is.  It's actually quite fun, because only the Chairman's Thugs were getting removed by the Environment.  We whittled the Thugs down, had them eaten by UW, took out the Underbosses, and had an AMAZINGLY fun game against The Organization.  Unforgiving Wasteland is a nightmare for them.

It's also great when it NOMS all the Citizens, meaning that Dawn can't flip, and won't keep respawning Truth and Dare.

That'd be nice - we lost to Dawn earlier mainly 'cause we were really slow starting up - started with Truth in play, then drew Tears in the first turn, then Sweat a turn or two after that while we didn't have massive damage to aim at them since we were the Scholar, Chrono Ranger, and Redeemer Fanatic and kept getting our stuff destroyed (Autumn was out as well though I don't think she ever actually destroyed anything 'cause there was never anything relevant in play by the time she had her turn), which didn't help :P. Had we at least had someone else other than Truth out to start off, we'd've probably done a bit better :P. After he came back for the first time, though, I did succeed in keeping a "No Executions" on him so that he stayed at the bottom of the deck for the rest of the game after we killed him again :P.

I dont actually have Final Wasteland, but since it says "When a card would be destroyed".

It seems it makes Bunker's Omni Cannon a way to thin his deck and Haka's Savage Mana a way to thin out any cards he can destroy.

Might be good or bad depending on the card.

I also can see Golem Unity being more useful here since she doesn't have to destroy equipments to deploy bots.

Unforgiving Wasteland only affects cards which would be destroyed by damage from environment cards.

I'm bringing up this topic to discuss tracking negative hitpoints again.

So, the ruling is that we do track negative HP. Then, what happens in the following situations?

1. Fanatic at -5 HP, Wrathful Retribution deals 30-(-5)=35 dmg?

2. Blade Battalion at -5 HP, Blade Battalion deals -5 dmg?

3. S-84 Automation Drone, same as Blade Battalion.

4. Fanatic Final Dives Blade Battalion at -5 HP, then Fanatic deals -5 dmg to another target?

1. That is the way I take it.

2-4. Much like if you stun bolt/neurotoxin dart thrower/hoist chain/liquid nitrogen rounds/etc a target more than once, giving them a -2 and they normally would of dealt 1 damage, that damage would be a minus -2, but damage can't be less than 0 so therefore all above mentions would make it a 0.

but damage can't be less than 0

hp couldn't be less than zero until recently too, so this may not be a fact to hang your hat on. ;)  But at the moment, I agree with your assessment.

I think I will hang my hat on it, because I really don't see villains dealing damage and heroes regaining from it instead. I think that part they will keep their feet firm on the ground for. Otherwise reducing damage just got a lot more broken.

We've always had ways to reduce damage to a negative number.  I'd say more accurately damage of less than one has no effect, but that's really quibbling over semantics.  Also, to be clear, I would apply all damage modifiers to the negative base amount normally.  So if Blade Battallion was at -1 HP, but two Obsidian fields were in play, I would have them deal 1 damage.

The rule wording has always supported HP going negative, and the Advanced Matriarch's cohorts have always been able to survive this.  All fixed point does is make it so cards that do things with their HP can get in on the fun.

EDIT: although come to think of it, my Obsidian Field example makes no sense since obviously you can't have them and Fixed Point in play together, so lets say they attack Fixer with Bloody Knuckles out.

How does a card with negative HPs stay in play? I thought once it hit zero, it was removed or flipped.

Fixed point, it makes every card indestructible.