A Hero's Guide to the Argent Adept

Character Profile

• Best Attack: Cedistic Dissonant
• Best Team Support: Alacritous Subdominant
• Best Personal Support: Inspiring Supertonic
• Honorable Mention: Silver Shadow
• Damage Types: Fire, Cold, and Sonic
• Nemesis: Akash’Bhuta
• Worst Card: Rhapsody of Vigor

The Argent Adept is the ultimate support character in Sentinels of the Multiverse.  His varied musical effects are capable of giving heroes just about any boon in the game, and he can build up an arsenal of flexible powers capable of solving any problem.  With time, he can chain his instruments and songs to create a whole host of effects that can be used every turn.  To effectively play the Argent Adept, you must have an open mind, and you must be willing to be a team player.  Once you embrace the style, there’s no end to the wonder this musician creates.

A Word of Clarification

Part of the strength of the Argent Adept lies in the fact that Perform and Accompany abilities are not powers.  While you can still only use any given power once a turn, you can use the abilities on any given song several times a turn, if you can manage it.  This is essential for understanding his full potential.

Attack

Generally speaking, if you are actively dealing hit point damage with the Argent Adept, something has gone horribly wrong.  It’s fine if that’s all you have, or if you’re with other low-damage heroes.  On the whole, however, it is far more optimal if you allow others to increase their capacity for damage by using the effects listed in the next section.  If you are reduced to belting out damage, Scherzo of Frost and Flame and the Accompany of Syncopated Onslaught are your tools.  As long as there’s no armor, these are decent, and you probably get them for free.

The Perform of Cedistic Dissonant is different.  By trading an instrument, you can remove almost any impediment in the game.  You can zap targets that are immune to damage.  You can kill relics or spaceships without batting an eye.  You can even remove environments or ongoing cards, if you’re too desperate to wait for Sarabande of Destruction.  This is utility of the highest order, but it usually works out the same as a huge attack.  If you have an instrument you’re not otherwise using, this is a great way to solve problems.  If you are making good use of all your instruments, this is a desperation tactic, but one that works.                                                                                                    

TEAM Attack!

Inspiring Supertonic’s Perform means the Argent Adept has effective use of any power.  This alone gives a glimpse into his utility.  Let somebody damage something?  Let somebody get set up?  Use more of your instruments?  This last one, while not the most powerful thing you can do with the card, is interesting.  You can use the Harp and the Lyra for extra Accompany uses.  For instance, with Musaragni’s Harp in play, you can use the Perform, use a different Instrument (or Vocalize), and then gain 2 hit points from the Accompany.  This little trick isn’t always the best use of your time, but keep it in mind.

Despite the strength of that card, Alacritous Subdominant’s Perform gets my vote for the best effect in the game.  Letting people play extra cards hastens the setup for heroes that require it, amplifies the effectiveness of the heroes that don’t, and can also help Argent Adept with his own (non-trivial) setup.  Be careful when playing against villains that can punish you for playing lots of cards, as with Citizen Dawn’s Devastating Aurora.  Inventive Preparation’s Accompany does the same thing, except that you can’t use it on yourself.  These two cards with Telemon’s Lyra represent one of the strongest combinations you can pull off.

Syncopated Onslaught’s Perform provides a straightforward boost to two targets.  While obviously not as broad an ability as Legacy’s Galvanize, this does have a couple of advantages.  You can selectively exclude heroes who might prefer not to have it, like Nightmist.  Also, this card is not limited to hero targets.  Keep that in mind if you’re relying on an environment target for some damage.

Team Defense

The Argent Adept has an array of defensive effects as well.  Rhapsody of Vigor can heal every hero, but the card has more utility than that.  It can heal other hero targets, like Unity’s Golems or Visionary’s Decoy Projection.  It can also heal helpful environment targets, or even villain targets you want to keep around.  (Relic Spirits, anyone?)  I typically prefer to use more offensive effects, but this is nice if you get it for free.

Counterpoint Bulwark’s Perform shows real defensive power.  This can be crucial to keeping heroes alive long enough to deliver fatal blows.  This can potentially come in handy several times a round, saving far more net life than Rhapsody of Vigor.  As with Rhapsody of Vigor, he can use this to protect any other target.  The highest and lowest hit point heroes are an obvious choice, but protecting a villain’s nemesis or combining with other damage reduction is also strong.

Inspiring Supertonic’s Accompany can turn the Argent Adept into a makeshift tank – he can attach the ability to gain 2 hit points to his power phase, sometimes multiple times, thus increasing the damage the party can take.

Utility

The rest of his songs fall under the utility umbrella.  Of course, using extra plays and powers with the above cards can do this as well.  Drawing cards is a common function of utility.  Cedistic Dissonant’s Accompany helps get you deeper in cards, while Counterpoint Bulwark’s allows you to assist others. 

Sarabande of Destruction is king among utility, easily getting rid of the impediments that don’t have hit points.  The best thing about this card is that it offers power-based Environment destruction – invaluable in Atlantis and Megalopolis to solve Leaking Rooms and Hostage Situations quickly.

Inventive Preparation’s Perform is great for any effect that depends on the top of your deck, and a decent effect to get everybody closer to cards they want.  It is often overshadowed by the other rhythm Performs, but some cards make it worthwhile. 

Finally, Vernal Sonata simply grants a couple of nice effects while allowing your teammates to plan their turns better.  I’m fond of playing this, then using Counterpoint Bulwark’s Accompany, to allow a player to use the card they just got back right away.

Tactics

Your early game looks like this.  Lead off with one of your songs, so you can start performing.  Ideally, you follow with another song, giving you options, and then you go get an instrument that allows you to use them together. 

Arcane Cadence and Instrumental Conjuration, your deck manipulation suite, are fantastic.  Instrumental Conjuration gets you the right tool, while Arcane Cadence fills in the blanks.  People make a big deal of Arcane Cadence to play Arcane Cadence, and that’s nice, but I find it more time-consuming than earth-shattering.  You really only have to do that if you must have something particular right now, or if all of the other cards are useless.

By midgame, hopefully you’ve lined up a 3-4 songs next to a couple of instruments.  This is when you employ Polyphoric Flare and Alacritous Subdominant’s Accompany to use all the powers you have accumulated.  The Argent Adept’s strength is based on abusing extra powers.  He really earns his 3 rating when you’re trying to keep straight what you can do.  Another clarification: The Accompany of Alacritous Subdominant sticks around until after the power is used.  If, as a part of using that power, you get a chance to use another Harmony Accompany, then Alacritous Subdominant will still be there.  Play around with his options outside of a game so as to better familiarize yourself with his options in game.  Can you figure out how to activate all of his instruments and Vocalize in one turn?

Silver Shadow deserves a special mention.  Once you have an Accompany handy, Silver Shadow is simply a free activation, lending basic support while you keep playing out your songs and instruments.  If you flip a Silver Shadow while playing Arcane Cadence, consider yourself lucky.  Use that free Accompany, then you can play the card you just put into your hand!

Instruments

The instruments are mostly straightforward, so I’ll use this space to talk about which ones I tend to use.  I enjoy Xu’s Bell, since it offers simple 2-card combos with Rhythms, and allows for flexibility in Harmony Accompanies.  Telamon’s Lyra and Musaragni’s Harp are very strong, and they both do Harmony Perform – great with Inspiring Supertonic.

I’m not as keen on the instruments that use Melodies.  I don’t find their abilities as consistently useful as those on the Harmonies and Rhythms, and the Melodies have less flexibility.  Each of these instruments requires three cards in play to be good, which is sometimes difficult to achieve.  To really make it worth your time, one of those cards usually has to be Sarabande of Destruction.  If melodies are among the cards you have around, however, it is nice Conjure at least one of the Melody instruments to have it handy. 

Weaknesses

Without his songs and instruments, Argent Adept doesn’t get much done.  As such, he takes some time to set up, and suffers if he loses a bunch of stuff.  Alacritous Subdominant can mitigate this to some degree, accelerating his deployment and recovery. 

He also suffers from having the fewest base hit points in the game, making him an immediate target for the more unsavory types of villains and environments.  He has excellent defensive measures as described above, but they do require preparation.

Finally, he has very few attack methods.  Without allies to execute his commands and use his enhancements, he will have a difficult time bringing the game to a conclusion.

Teamups

This is what the Argent Adept is all about.  All heroes are better in a team with this guy.  Here follows a list of some of the best things I’ve seen, but really, as long as Argent Adept is noticeably improving the team’s performance, all is well.

Counterpoint Bulwark combines very well with any sort of damage redirection, like Legacy’s Lead from the Front, Wraith’s Smoke Bombs, or Unity’s Stealth Bot. 

Inspiring Supertonic is great to use after Legacy’s turn, to use Galvanize again.  This is noticeably better than Syncopated Onslaught in a big group, or with Unity.  Syncopated Onslaught, on the other hand, is better when some people don’t want the boost, most often Nightmist.

Scherzo of Frost and Flame is generally unimpressive compared to what else this guy can do, but if it becomes boosted, it’s much better.  It’s very compelling when aimed at Absolute Zero.

Alacritous Subdominant is great for everyone for any number of reasons, but it’s perhaps most great for Unity.  It allows her bots to come into play without having to jump through any hoops.  Unity also appreciates Rhapsody of Vigor the most, as it can bolster her bots.

Inventive Preparation is good with Nightmist in particular, allowing her to influence the effects of her spells.  Vernal Sonata can be used in the same way, or it can be used with effects that let everybody draw a card, like Legacy’s Bolster Allies, or Team Leader Tachyon.  This is also great if followed up by The Scholar’s Don't Dismiss Anything or Omnitron-X's Timeshift.

My favourite mad combo is Vernal Sonata + Counterpoint Bulwark + Inventive Preparation + Inspiring Supertonic + Telamon's Lyra + Xu's Bell. Allow any other player to play any card in their discard pile. Oh, and everyone gets a hit point back as well, and other people get to stack their deck.

Speaking of Vernal Sonata, it's an absurd combo with Reclaim From the Deep.

True that.  You know what else is an absurd combo with Reclaim from the Deep?

…

Reclaim from the Deep.

Seems like a solid guide.  My group has gotten more out of Rhapsody of Vigor than Syncopated Onslaught or Counterpoint Bullwark, but it's rather hard to name the worst card in a deck when practically all of them are good.

That `figure out how to use all instruments and his base power in one turn' challenge really does help with getting a grip on his abilities. If you're reading this to figure out how the hell to play the AA, get your cards right now and try it!

Overal a really nice guide, though a little table with song and instrument effects might have actually been appropriate here.

One of the rules of thumb I like to give new AA players, besides the 'play a song or two before playing an instrument' thing, is that you don't really need instruments for melodies, rythms have both great performs and accompanies, and harmonies have amazing performs and accompanies that are more of a bonus, and rate the instruments with that in mind:

-the bell is amazing because of its flexibility and being able to be used with just one song

-the lyre is great, but needs a rythm and a harmony

-the harp never hurts, but often is 'just' a free harmony accompany

-the drum is ok, makes using your situational melodies more fun.

-the horn is so-so, like the drum but with less exciting harmony accompanies instead of rythm accompanies

-the pipes are very situational. If you could use them with only one melody card, they would be really great, but sadly enough you need two.

Oh, and that there's only one copy of each instrument, which is actually pretty unique and something people often miss the first time (though the amazing instrumental conjuration makes sure this hardly ever becomes an actual problem).

I've been playing the Adept quite a lot lately. I like that he's so versatile, and I think the number of times I've ever used him to deal damage is less than five. Certainly less than ten, anyway. Inspiring Supertonic is probably the song I play the most, since if I have any other songs (and instruments) out, I usually use its Perform (with the harp) to let myself do something else and regain 2hp. Using the Pipes with both copies of Rhapsody of Vigour is cool to heal people up - mixing that with Supertonic means the Adept gets to regain 4hp a turn. That's fun and I have actually done that before :D. I tend to use Arcane Cadence quite a lot in the early game, to get some stuff out, but later on I prefer Silver Shadow, or Vernal Sonata if people need to get stuff out of their trash (the +1hp from it doesn't hurt either). Getting set up can be a pain, since it can take a long time to get all the songs and instruments out, but as long as you have a handful of stuff in play you can at least be helpful. I've never really used Counterpoint Bulwark's damage soak ability before - I tend to go for letting other people do stuff (draw/play etc) or buffing their damage, but considering this weekend we beat everyone except the Matriarch, who beat us (stupid Mystical Defenses :P) and then we had another go after we'd finished beating everyone else and then she beat us again, I think this might be a good idea…

On the subject of AA's Instruments, does anyone know why they aren't Relics?  It's especially confusing since he's from the Infernal Relics expansion.

See?  Four responses, four different opinions.  This guy is more customizable than most.

I view Scherzo, Rhapsody, and Drake's Pipes as roughly on the same level.  Scherzo's damage pales in comparison to Adept's other options (usually Inspiring Supertonic or Alacritous Subdominant), but it's still damage, so it's fine in a pinch.  By itself, I see Rhapsody as merely delaying the inevitable, and it's hard to use Rhapsody with the things that make a huge difference (most specifically, Inspiring Supertonic and Alacritious Subdominant).  Double Rhapsody is good, though.  Reminds me of Cleansing Downpour, except it takes three cards to do.  Which is far more reasonable, really.

Rhapsody over Syncopated Onslaught really surprises me.  With the number of heroes whose powers increase manifold by the number of  boosts they can get, Syncopated Onslaught is a great deal.  These include, but are certainly not limited to, Tempest, Fanatic, Absolute Zero, Mr. Fixer, Expatriette, and now Chrono-Ranger and Omnitron-X as well. 

Rhapsody vs. Counterpoint Bulwark is a finer line that depends on the particular circumstance.  I use most of the offensive abilities over these, but sometimes you need defense.  In addition to finding the Rhythm easier to work into a routine, the protection applies to every attack that round.  This is supergood against villains or environments that attack a lot, especially if you can figure out who is going to get hit.  It saves two people from much more damage than the Rhapsody.

Because Equipment, Relic, Instrument took up too much space?

That's my guess, too.  But it does seem to be an appropriate keyword.  I'm sure the >G crew has an in-canon reason, though.

Because having so many of his instruments out after an Apocalpyse or End of Days would just be overpowered?

A single card (like Staff of Ra) being out after clearing the board is fine, but leaving the Argent with his complete set up ready to go?

I'd consider Rhapsody a viable alternative to Bulwark when you're against Plague Rat, even more so if everyone's Infected - you can't reduce the damage but you can cancel it out by healing it back, buying more time for everyone else to kick his arse. Plus Rhapsody affects more targets, so you can heal the whole team rather than give soak to two of them.

I could see that.  I'm able to come up with a lot of mechanical reasons, but I'm having trouble grasping it from a thematic standpoint.  But destroying all of his Ongoings would still set him back pretty far.

It was never intended for the instruments to be relics, because the instruments are not Relics, in that they are not items of great power. They are "relics" in that they are really old, probably priceless things. But they have no innate power of their own. Now, a Virtuoso of the Void can gain much knowledge from an instrument of a previous Virtuoso of the Void, so they are useful, but ultimately the power comes from the Virtuoso and how said Virtuoso uses the instrument. Whereas the Relics in Sentinels of the Multiverse are all items of great, innate power.

Hope this helps! 

A good example - life gain is better than damage reduction against a purveyor of irreducible damage.  However, and this is my point, Plague Rat deals a lot of damage, really quickly.  It will take more than a few uses of Rhapsody of Vigor to really make a difference in how quickly he kills you.  You're far better off killing him quickly than trying hold him off.

Bam!  He does it again!  Thanks for the info, Christopher!  That makes sense and adds to our ever-growing knowledge of the Multiverse.

I dunno, regarding Plague Rat - say everyone's Infected, so he's flipped. Every player will be doing themselves one point of irreducible toxic damage every turn. Rat himself also deals out one point of irreducible melée damage at the end of his turn. At the start of his turn, he also deals a point of normal toxic damage, I think. This, at least, can be redirected and soaked. So you have everyone otherwise taking two points of irreducible damage every round. If Legacy's around, he can't use Next Evolution and Lead from the Front to block the Infection damage because that's dealt by the heroes, and in fact having Legacy around might be a bad thing 'cause if he buffs everyone's damage then they'll just be hurting themselves even more. Anyway, of the Adept dedicates himself to countering those two points of damage every turn by healing them back, heis at least completely nullifying most of what Plague Rat can do (not counting for all those horrible damaging one-shots he has :P). If he's got enough instruments and stuff out, that doesn't even need to be all he can do, since he can let himself use other powers first (or heal everyone with Polyphoric Flare before his power phase even starts) and so still have other uses. Meanwhile if you've got people out who are good at dishing out damage (such as Haka, Ra, and Expatriette), they basically get an extra load of rounds in which to do it in and can focus on that while the Adept takes care of the healing (or at least some of it).

But yeah, other than in cases like that, and depending on which heroes are out, there are other things you can sing besides Rhapsody. Letting Tempest use a power if he has Cleasning Downpour out is probably a better alternative if everyone needs healing, for example.

Argent adept is my favorite hero.  He was the first one I played, and I've been in love with him since.

Letting other heroes use a power out of turn is so much better than even Fanatic's Embolden (although Embolden on AA is just easy mode).

The hardest thing I've faced is getting people to understand how good returns on investing in AA are.  Incapacitated Hero can let another hero use a power out of turn?  Seriously if you don't pick AA for that you are simply hurting the team, he can rattle off his entire combo again, and that hero you chose instead could have still used a power.

My absolute favorite duo with AA is Tempest.  With the versatility and Tempests sheer power when he is built up this duo can heal through almost anything, or with Localized hurricane feed Tempest cards if needed.  Helping Haka build his hand or get his cards in play, or Legacy, or anyone really.

AA is my pick for teh best Hero in the game.  He doesn't need to do damage, he's there to win.

Edit:  sorry for necro.  followed the link from the sticky.  Gah.

No need to worry about necroing these threads.  They are here for relevant discussion of the topic.  Thanks for the insight!

What you need is 2 Embolden on AA.

Touched up some language and filled in the redacted part.  Inventive Preparation is good with Scholar and Omnitron-X.

I'll say it again - this topic is for discussion of Flamethrower's AA guide, not for a general discussion of what you like/dislike about AA or your favorite combo, etc.  In order to keep things clean, we should consider taking that kind of discussion to its own topic so that this can remain about the guide itself.

I think the community is growing so much, that it might be time to give each hero/villian its own mini forum. Link guides, talk about favorite combos, and put any ruling specific to cards in those decks.

I think that would be an awesome idea

I agree

have seperate threads for heros been made since this post?

If so would somebody please direct me?

I have a very simple question which I don't think is too off topic because I was hoping to get an answer from the guide (maybe the question is too simple for this guide). 

When you activate an instrument's power, is it required to have both perform and accompany types in play? eg, if an instrument says activate a perform on a Melody and an accompany on a Rhythym, do you have to have both to use the intrument's power?

If you don't have the first (perform), can you still use second (accompany) part of the power?

Also, you must use the perform and accompany in the order listed, correct?

Thanks!

It would be better to start a new topic for these questions.

If you don't have both of the things that an instrument activates then you can still use the instrument.  You will just activate what you do have in play.  however you must activate both kinds of text if you use the instrument and they are available.  You also have to do them in the order on the card.

Dypaca?

Wouldn't it be the case that if the creators did intend for the instruments to work IN order then the card would say so?
As in... Perform a perform text "AND THEN" perform an accompany?

Seems like a too overly important mechanic to of accidentally left out.

Are you really trying to make a distinction between "and" and "and then"? That's a very dangerous road my friend. 

It's a logical distinction.  "And" implies simultaneity while "and then" implies seriality.  However since nothing in the game is simultaneous, all "ands" have to be read as "and then", so the distinction which would normally be fine, isn't useful in the game.

That is a bit of a misconception Spiff. There are simultaneous actions! Says so in the rulebook. Thats why card order is important. Just because effects do not resolve simultaneously does not mean they are not in fact simultaneous.

I suppose that's true, although it's a semantic rather than practical distinction.  I see your point though.

More or less. Effectivly you resolve everything as if simultaneous actions do not exist at all. But it is an important distinction as you need to know what effects are considered "simultaneous" or not when you are considering timing of complex interactions.

What's an example of a simultaneous effect, then?

Expatriette's Assault rifle deals 3 targets 2 projectile damage each.

This happens "simultaneously", but for the sake of reason (and sanity), it can't really be simultaneous.  So, you pick your targets in whatever order you want, resolving each as you go.  If target A was providing damage reduction to targets B and C, but dies after taking the damage, the latter targets no longer get DR.  

I don't see how that's simultaneous at all.  Since each shot is resolved one at a time, they're sequential.  They just all happen within the space of one Power.

If they happened simultaneously, B and C would still receive the damage reduction.  It's only because they're resolved in sequence (in the player's choice of order) that A can be killed first.

I don't see how that's simultaneous at all.

Think of it this way: the rules tell you how to handle simultaneous actions (you handle them sequentially).  If there were no simultaneous actions, there would be no need for that rule.

Example:  when you reach the end-of-turn phase for the villain, all of the end-of-turn effects on villain cards are triggered simultaneously (there aren't multiple end-of-turn phases, just one, which triggers everything at once).  However, the rules say that when simultaneous actions happen, you will deal with them in a non-simultaneous manner.  So when people say "nothing is really simultaneous in this game", they're referring to how simultaneous actions are handled, not that there aren't actually simultaneous events in the game, which there absolutely are.  It's a subtle, academic distinction, but it's a real one.

The way I figured it, those end-of-turn effects don't trigger simultaneously, they trigger one at a time in card-play order during the rather long "end of turn phase".  (I'm from Magic, so I'm accustomed to such temporal absurdities.)

Right. I hear you. I was a magic player for a long time. It took a while to break myself of the habit of assuming if it's true for one then it must be of the other. I always got myself into trouble thinking that way. 

Had a good game today... made one great, power play that left me feeling very satisfied.
Had both Bulwark and Inventive Preperation on the field along with the Bell... already pretty strong.
Along with that; in hand I had a Silver Shadow and a Cadence.

Play Silver Shadow to active inventive preperation's accompany: Let another play play a card out of turn.
Silver Shadow's effect; play a card afterward if I can... I use that effect to play a Cadence.

In the cadense I choose to activate a vernal sonata to help a Wraith player draw her blowdrier card.

At which point I then proceed to my power face and used it on my bell
Perform on inventive prep to allow the entire team to top card ~ choose to replace or discard
and the accompany of bulwark to allow the wraith player to immediately draw her card for her next turn.

Don't know if it was the best move, it felt satisfying none the less.

 

really?
Perhaps its my naivete that makes the distinction feels trivial.

As others have stated in the above posts, its clear that there are many instances in any game when several "things occur simoutaneously" in which the order of resolution is left up for the players to dictate.

I think it's the exact same case when dealing with Argent's instruments.
From the literal texts of the instruments, I think it's clear that the card has a perform and accompany text be activated simultaneously.

If it's up to the players to decide the order in which villain cards' end-turn effects are played during the end phase of the villain due to them activating simultaneously, then I think it makes perfect sense to apply the same rule of thum to argent in allowing the player to decide which text's effects to resolve first and which second.
 

well then...

I have to ask... I don't personally own the game, is the rule as you stated written within the rulebook?

I'd hate to have something so important to be left up to interpretations...

If you'd like, I believe there is a copy of the rulebook up on Spiff's website :) You can go check it out there.

Actually, the rulebook is available on the official downloads page.

Spiff’s site does have his “Rules and Clarifications” document, which is very shiny, but it’s not the official rulebook.

Use all the instruments & vocalize in one turn, one way to do this... are there better ways?
This is coming from the OP's statement that Subdominant's accompany can be used multiple timesin one turn.
(pardon the absence of the proper names for the instruments and certain cards, don't own the game nor have I committed them to memory)

Requirements: Inspiring supertonic and alactritous subdominant and a polyphoric flare.  (That's it).

Card play phase:
Use Polyphoric Flare oneshot: Take two damage and use a power immediately
Use power to play the harp.

Play the harp ~ Perform of Supertonic and Accompany of subdominant~ 2 powers to use.
Play one power on the guitar and one power on the bell.

Play the Guitar ~ Perform of Supertonic again and the accompany of any rhythem card of the players choice, if any are present.
Play the Bell~ Perform of any Rhythem card if any are present and play the accompany of dubdominant again.

Once again, 2 powers to use~ one on the drums and one on the horn.
Play the Drums~ use if any melody performs or rhythem accompanies if any are present
Play the Horn~ Any melody that may be present, then for the 3rd time, use the accompany of subdominant to gain another power.

power: Use on the flutes ~ any two melodies of the players choice...
End of Card playing Phase

Beginning of Powerphase
Power Phase: Vocalize.

Net gain:
Two Rhythem accompanies
One Rhythem Perform
Four Melodies
One Vocalize
 

Yes, you can use Perform and Accompany texts multiple times from the same card in a single turn (if you have the means to do so), as they aren't powers - the instruments are powers, so you'd only be able to use each of those once (plus Vocalise), but you can use the songs as many times as you like :).

who's asking?

Well, you said "This is coming from the OP's statement that Subdominant's accompany can be used multiple times in one turn", implying that you weren't sure whether it was an official rule or not and were just going by what someone else has said. I just thought I'd confirm that it is :).

There isn't a Guitar, sadly (it's actually Telamon's Lyra, which is actually a lute not a lyre, and a lute resembles a ukelele more than a guitar).  Maybe we'll get a promo future version of AA who has one.

More importantly, though, the Subdominant is destroyed after the resolution of the power it gives you...I'm not saying it's impossible to get it used three times, but double-check that you have the timing right.

Envisioner is right, the key to using a single copy of Subdominant multiple times is the idea that it isn't destroyed until you fully resolve the power it grants you, and that each of Adepts extra powers are resolved now.  (Meaning that if one power grants you another power, that new power is resolved before the first one is considered finished, or even before it activates a second song if the first activation granted the power).

So in your example of the instruments in that order, Harp -> supertonic -> Lyra/guitar -> supertonic -> Bell -> subdominant -> drum  would work, but then the subdominant would be destroyed after the Bell was done and before the Harp could activate it.  You can do essentially the same thing though, if you swap the order of the drums and the bell.

Of course, alternatively your are free to house rule all of his 'use a power now' to be 'use an extra power this turn' (which is how Splurgendii seems to resolve them), but then that kind of undermines the justification for being able to use one Subdominant multiple times.

Ahhhh

Very insightful… I took a leap of faith on decided to base this all instrument, hypothetical turn on the misinterpretation from the OP, which in hind sight made no sense.

Fascinating
It's AFTER the power granted by the subdominant's accompany that triggers its selfdestruction.
Therefore if the power granted from it is immediately used on the bell which through it resolution can reach the dominant's accompany a second time before its self destruction, it makes the play legitamate.

WIth the dominant gone after its second useage I'm at a loss on how to play the final instrument.

Does anybody have a complete hypothetical turn involving all instruments and vocalization?

 

Ah, thought about it again... given the new information~ Run this through your guys' head and let me know if you think this is legitamte.

One Turn: All instruments + vocalization.
Requirements, same as before: Supertonic + Alacritous Subdominant + Prolyphric ... something, I forgot the name.

Card playing phase: Play prolyphic~ Argent Adept takes 2 damage and is able to use a power NOW.
Take granted power and use it on the harp.

Harp: Supertonic + Subdominant~ 2 powers.
(This next move is very specific and important).
Seeing as how the resolution of the power granted from the supertonic does NOT trigger a self destruction for any card on its resolution, the next step in the turn is to use THAT power on the HORN!!!
Activate the horn~ One melody of the players choice and another usage of the Subdominant's accompany ~ power in hand.

Now~ returning to the power granted from the first usage of the dominant's accompany, we now use that power on the bell!

And once again... seeing as its the "RESOLUTION" of the power that triggers the destruction of the dominant, we can use the bell to gain a rhythem perform and for the third time trigger the dominant's accompany before it destroys itself~ 2 powers in hand, Alactritous subdominant is now gone.

Now, one of the two powers in hand (doesn't matter which) is used on the lyra.
Lyra: supertonic + rhythem accompany~ one more power giving the total amount back up to two again.

and finally, the two final powers, one is used on the drums and one on the fluts for one final rhythem accompany and whopping three melodies.

END of card playing phase (LOL)

Powerphase: Vocalize.

Final Net
By my count.
Two Rhythm Performances
One Rhythem Accompany
Four Melodies.
One vocalize.


 

I don't think 'keeping powers in hand' is legal, so I'm not sure that works. I have never done this thing, but I wonder if I can sort it now quickly...

Hang on, no, simple solution: just use both copies of Alacritous Subdominant; one gets destroyed, and then you activate the other :D

I think the OP actually explained this rather clearly:

The whole idea is that you never have multiple 'powers in hand' with the way the Adept grants them.  You just have the chain of powers that you are resolving.  So when the Harp activates the perform of Supertonic, you immediately start resolving another power before the Harp activates a Harmony accompany.

So one possible sequence is:

1. Harp perform supertonic
2. Lyra/Guitar perform supertonic
3. Drum accompany Rythm
4. Drum perform melody
5. Lyra/Guitar accompany Rythm
6. Harp accompany subdominant
7. Bell perform Rythm
8. Bell accompany subdominant
9. Horn perform Melody
10. Horn accompany subdominant
11. Pipes perform Melody
12. Pipes perform a different Melody.

Silver Shadow to use alac to harp

Harp1 super lyra super pipes

Harp2 alac bell, alac horn, alac drum, alac destroyed.

Then play flare as 2nd part of silver to vocalize.

Power phase twiddle thumbs

Did this in game.

Ok…

Is this principle true when dealing with Sumdominant's accompany?
"The accompany grants a power which when said power is "resolved", it triggers the destruction of the card"
(paraphrased)
If that above is true… I think there's a problem with the sequence you shared, let's lay the whole thing out and zero in closely.
 

Two sequence of events beginning from the harp's activation

checks out, no problem.

2nd sequence of events beginning from the harp's accopany activation

The initial power granted from the subdominat's accopany; it's resolution is what triggers its self destruction right???

In your sequence, the first power granted form the subdominant's accompany is used on the bell therefore it's resolution is what triggers subdominant's destruction. If true, it should follow that regardless of how the Bell is resolved, once it is so the subdominant should be destroyed.

The bell's resolution is activating a rhythem perform and subdominant's accompany which is legitamate. However when these last two actions are performed the bell is resolved which then should trigger subdominant's destruction.

If all is true so far,  then once the power obtained from the bell through the subdominant is used to activate the horn there shouldn't be a subdominant available for the horn to use on. Thus no power to use to activate the flutes.


 

The Bell isn't done until it has finished using the Subdominant, which includes using the power and destroying the card.  Plus, finishing the power granted by Subdominant isn't really what causes subdominant to be destroyed.  It is destroyed by completely resolving the Subdominant, but you can't do that until you finish resolving the power it grants.

The Accompany of Subdominant is basically two steps:

1. You may use a power now
2. If you did, destroy subdominant

So first the harp activates it, but it is still doing step 1 because the Bell is being resolved.  Then the Bell activates it, and is also on step 1 while the Horn is used.  Finally the Horn will activate it and is doing step 1 to use the Flutes.  Then, once the Flutes are done, the Horn moves on to step 2 and now the Subdominant is destroyed.  Then the Bell continues, but the card is already gone, and the same thing happens with the Harp.

I'm not sure if there has been an official ruling that this is how it is supposed to work, but resolving the steps in this way is the justification for re-using the Subdominant like this.

fascinating

OK, so for fun I played a solo game of Greatest Legacy, Scholar, Omnitron-X, Argent Adept, in time cataclysm.

The entire point was to go through all the instruments as many times as possible in one round.

Well Omni hit cadence turn one, so the instruments got out quick.

When Fixed Point came out I was ready.

GLegs got everything but drum, Scholar did P&A, for all but drum again, then Omni pulled Silver Shadow which I had put back with Adept's vernal for all but perform.  Adept dealt well over 100 damage before his turn, when he lost his +6 to damage.  

When a one shot is used... is it immediately put into the discard pile or does it remain on the field until the resolution of its affects.

Why is this an important question?

Playing Silver shadow and then using its extra play feature to play a vernal sonata.
From that point, is silver shadow in the discard pile for vernal sonata to fetch? or is it still on the field and therefore out of sonata's reach to interact with?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Had a game earlier today where both "inventive preperation" and "Subdominant" were in play but with no instruments however.
Amongst other cards, two vernal sonatas and one silver shadow in hand.

Play phase: Silver shadow on Invenptive prep ~ out of turn card play
Extra play: Vernal sonata ~ silver shadow return to top of deck

Power Phase: Subdominant ~ out of turn play.

Repeat for two more turns...
Artificially having the same affect as if Lyra was in play for three turns ;)
(legit?)

Oneshots go in the trash after resolving their effect.  So in this case Silver Shadow shouldn't be in the trash until you have finished the last effect (playing and resolving Vernal Sonata).

EDIT: While the instrument discussion was fairly related to the strategy guide, this is reaching a point where it would probably be better to ask questions in a new thread.

One of my favorite combos is with AA *and* Grandpa Legacy.  If you have AA's instruments/songs set up so that he can use multiple Performs/Accompanies on a turn, then Grandpa Legacy can use his Gung Ho! power to let AA (essentially) have another go at it while healing in the bargain.  Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

AA has:  

Alacritous Subdominant

Inspiring Supertonic

Inventive Preparation

Telamon's Lute (Harmony Perform and Rhythm Accompany)

Musaragni's Harp (Harmony Perform and Harmony Accompany)

AA's turn:  

(1) Musaragni's Harp -- gives him a Harmony Perform and a Harmony Accompany:

       (a) Harmony Perform -- use Inspiring Supertonic's Perform which lets any hero use a power.  Use that on AA; it will let him play another instrument...

              (i)  Telamon's Lute -- gives him a Harmony Perform and a Rhythm Accompany;

                      (A)  Harmony Perform -- use Alacritous Subdominant -- any hero can play a card out of turn  (**Note:  If you've been spamming this for a while, and you don't need as many out-of-turn card plays, then swap this for a second Inspiring Supertonic, and let a hero use a power out of turn)

                      (B)  Rhythm Accompany -- use Inventive Preparation -- any hero (except AA) can play a card out of turn

        (b) Harmony Accompany (from Musaragni's Harp) -- AA gains +2 HP (I find this particularly useful, since AA is often the hero with the least HP, and tends to get beat on often)

So at the end of AA's turn, you've had two out-of-turn card plays, and AA has gained +2 HP.  Then if Grandpa Legacy is next, have him use Gung Ho on AA to let AA use a power out of turn.  As the power, use Musaragni's Harp, and repeat the steps above.  After two hero turns, the end result is *four* (4) out-of-turn card plays, and AA gains +5 HP.   With four out-of-turn card plays, suddenly setup-heavy characters like Unity, Fixer, and Expatriette become much more workable.   Or RA/Tempest/Tachyon pound enemies to hamburger with strings of damage one-shots.  Or combine this with characters who have one-shots that allow out-of-turn card draw/play (Tachyon, Scholar), and you can add still more out-of-turn carnage.  

Getting Captain Cosmic to stick a Dynamic Siphon on a decently set-up Adept and then having everyone deliberately plink it for one or two points of damage on each of their turns can get pretty ridiculous as well >:). Even more so if the Adept has either or both copies of Rhapsody of Vigour out along with the Pipes (or the Horn, if you only have one copy), since he can then heal the Siphon back up again and let you keep repeating the procedure multiple times every round until everyone is set up as much as they want to be, all unwanted ongoing/environment cards are destroyed soon after coming out, and anything else that you might want done has been done :D.

That’s true; one thing this guide didn’t mention (likely due to pre-dating the deck) is using the Scherzo’s two plinks to trigger Captain Cosmic’s devices. A guaranteed activation of two siphons or heals each turn, in addition to repairing the damage done? That’s pretty solid use of the pipes, especially if you can make that the endpoint of a power chain through Supertonics or Subdominants.

So much so that this combination of heroes is hard banned at our table. Mostly because I think we had at one point seven layers of nested actions resolving themselves and every turn started taking ten times as long as it should because the most logical action every turn was to ping Dynamic Siphons. It made every fight tedious and not challenging.

Stuff like that is a lot more fun on the video game, because then at least you don't have to keep track of what's going on.

… But then you don’t realize when you accidentally end the combo and don’t want to rewind because it will go aaaaaaaaaaaall the way back!

I like having to keep track of everything, becuase then I can actually keep track of everything ;).

I have had more than one game where, late in the game, it's my turn as AA and I go to the table, "Give me a minute, things are about to get crazy."

Yeah, I love games like that - the Adept does All of the Things and everyone else subsequently gets to do a whole bunch of things. Multiple times, if you happen to have a Dynamic Siphon >:D.

A few thoughts on the Xtreme version...

Like Kvothe/Dark Conductor's power, Rebel Yell doesn't interact with AA's songs, meaning it's going to be at least two turns before you can start using them. Rebel Yell, however, is a fantastic power that lets AA effectively get the effect of two songs and an instrument from turn one, and that is just fantastic no matter how you slice it. There isn't a character in the game that wouldn't benefit from that kind of set up, and the damage rider is probably the only thing that'll make you want to switch to the songs and instruments later -- but even then, there's characters who will benefit from even the damage.

Plus, if nobody needs the set up or you've got too many damage boosts out to make it worth the hit, he can just wail on the enemy instead. And he's even got the most HP of any AA variant. There are very few things not to like about him.

One of those things is the aforementioned slow set-up. Base AA can use all of his songs on turn one, while PW can double his card plays and have several options ready by his second turn and he can use 2/3 of his songs turn-one. XPWAA loses some of his first-turn utility. For the most part, Rebel Yell makes up for it, but if you need something from his other songs (like a damage buff, defense, or ongoing destruction), he's not the best.

Overall, I love the variant. The ability to get others a play and a draw -- and not a random, unknown play off the top or bottom of the deck, either -- is too good to pass up.

XPWAA also has a useful ability to use after destruction occurs or if he opens with a hand which contains none of his songs.  

Rebel Yell is almost a full hero turn in exchange for 2 damage. That’s a pretty crazy exchange, and well worth skipping most of his song abilities.

If I was in a game playing AA and one of my teammates was Completionist Guise, I'd probably start out with Xtreme AA. Especially if Xtreme cosmic was out.

Yeah, that's a great combo; especially if Autonomous Blade is in hand. Really lets him get a head start on the damage stream.

I really like putting Fortitude on Legacy, Yelling at him with XPW AA such that he only takes 1 damage, then playing a useful card and Motivational Charge to regain the lost HP, doing 2 damage to a target, and healing everyone else 1 HP as well.