Sacrosanct Martyr+Brutal Censure+Absolution+Embolden

[quote=““Sacrosanct Martyr””]
Power: Fanatic deals herself up to 5 radiant damage. Fanatic deals 1 target X radiant damage, where X = the amount of radiant damage dealt to Fanatic this turn.
[/quote]

[quote=““Brutal Censure””]
Fanatic deals 1 target 2 radiant damage.
[/quote]

With Embolden on myself (Fanatic), on my turn, can I play Brutal Censure and deal myself 2 radiant damage, then use power Absolution to deal myself 3 radiant damage, then use power Sacrosanct Martyr to deal myself 5 more radiant damage, then output 10 radiant damage to 1 target?

With Galvanize, 2+1+3+1+5+1=13?

It appears as though that is perfectly fine as far as rules go, but short of preparing for a Wrathful Retribution next turn, what would be the benefit of doing that?

2 possibilities spring to mind

• To benefit from ‘increase damage to hero targets’ type effects
• To make use of an Aegis of Resurrection before it is destroyed

but I think they’re both unlikely occurrences.

More probable is that Ketigid is secretly working for the villains and wishes to kill Fanatic… gasp could he be a previously unrevealed nemesis?

Ketigid is “digitek” spelled backwards.

…

…

…

Dear God…I think Omnitron has found his way onto the Web! Freedom Five! Onward!

To make Sacrosanct Martyr seem useful?

To get over the damage reduction of a target. If a target has even 1 DR, attacking it with 2, 3 and, say, Fanatic’s base power of 1 and 1 instead of Sacrosanct Martyr does 1, 2, 0, and 0 damage, but doing what ketgid describes does 9.

I’m not sure an exchange of 5HP for a bonus 2 damage is a worthwhile exchange (assuming a DR of 1 and no buffs to damage).

It seems pretty useless if you ask me, unless of course you are weakening her for the Wrathful Retribution like someone else pointed out. Since you could always play Brutal Censure and use Absolution and Sacrosanct Martyr to a enemy and still do the same exact damage to the enemy or even attack multiple.

But to answer your question, it is perfectly fine if you really desire.

I can see it if you absolutely need to deal a lot of damage and don’t mind Fanatic hurting that much to prevent everyone else taking it too, a la Electro Pulse explosives when All Devices take 1 less damage and Omni will flip and it’ll deal HP+1 to all heroes. In that case, the aggregating of damage on Fanatic means less damage prevented and less overall damage dealt to heroes.
It’s sort of an outside case, though.

However, in the case arenson had above, perhaps -5 hp is worth it for a net +6 damage. Imagine if the enemy had DR 2. Then, you’d be doing 1 total damage without Sacrosanct (0 + 1 + 0) and up to 8 with. Also, doesn’t Embolden cause Fanatic to deal radiant damage to the person she plays it on, further increasing the damage from Sacrosanct Martyr?

dragonlordged; Embolden does deal radiant damage to the user, but because of the wording on the card, Sacrosanct Martyr can’t ever benefit from it.

Arenson9’s case is a bad example, why compare Exorcise with Sacrosanct Martyr when you have to have both in play for the situation to arise? You can just use Sacrosanct Martyr on the enemy directly and the net deal is Fanatic is 5HP better off and the target takes 2 less damage (again, assuming the DR is 1).

If the DR is 2 (or greater) then I agree that this tactic becomes a much better deal, 4 damage (0+1+3) to villain vs 8 damage (total) and an additional 5HP loss to Fanatic, a buff of +4; a 1 or 2 HP/damage difference to me is a worthwhile trade.

So, when Fanatic does it, it’s bad, but when Absolute Zero does it, it’s great?

… Man, that guy must be really unpleasant to be around.

I can see this being interesting (if not useful) if Fanatic has hit points to burn, and the intended target has a lot of armor, and/or there are plenty of buffs out. If everything is at +2, this results in 18 damage to the target, with only once chance for any damage reduction the target might have.

Unlike Fanatic, Absolute Zero has a dependable heal.

I was only partly serious.

Aegis is a pretty dependable heal, especially if you’ve got Mr. Fixer or someone else ready to get it back for you.

Random aside: I didn’t notice until this discussion, but with Undaunted out, doing yourself a full 5 damage results in less damage output than doing 4 with Sacrosanct Martyr. Odd.
That is all.

Even with DR2 I feel this is a bad plan. It’s not worth burning through your life for.

Instead why don’t you spend your resources on dealing with the DR? Between SS Martyr and Consecrated ground, you should be able to relatievely painlessly deal with whatever is giving DR, and then its back to buisiness as usual. If you don’t have Consecrated Ground… then get it. Spend your time playing 1-shots to let you draw more cards or simply taking advantage of the no-play, no-power rule.

If the situation isn’t well suited to fanatic… then change the situation so that it is.

Ya, I was thinking of getting pass DR, together with leveraging on buffs for a single high output attack. This combination will deal Fanatic 10 dmg and output 10+4xbuffs. So if there’s a +4, we’re looking at 26 dmg to 1 target.

with a +4 damage mod and all the things that were listed, why not just:

Brutal Censure for 6
Exorcism for 10
Absolution for 7.

You’re at 23 instead of 26, but Fanatic didn’t take any damage.

If you’re at +4 with Fanatic you’re in such a rediculously good spot that you don’t need to resort to tricks like this. If you have Divine Focus and a bunch of cards (which by the time you’re at +4, you most likely do), just drop down Divine Focus. By the time your turn rolls around again in a 4 player game, you’ll have dealt 36 damage with Divine Focus alone, and another 10 with Exorcism.

I introduced Exorcise because I was thinking of this as a discussion about whether or not there is any value in using Sacrosanct Martyr at all.

From the perspective of the best WAY to use Sacrosanct Martyr I agree that it’s generally not until the DR2 level that it’s worth it to funnel other radiant attacks through Sacrosanct Martyr. Even then you probably don’t want to do it if you have buffs to your attacks unless you really need to get the amount of damage up.

In some extreme cases, however, it may be worth Fanatic taking the extra damage in order to take out a target in the current turn.

Damage Reduction
Exorcise
Sacrosanct Martyr
Funnel through Sacrosanct Martyr

0
7 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
10 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 5
10 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 10

1
3 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
7 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 5
9 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 10

2
1 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
4 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 5
8 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 10

And if there’s a +1 buff …

Damage Reduction
Exorcise
Sacrosanct Martyr
Funnel through Sacrosanct Martyr

0
11 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
14 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 6
14 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 13

1
7 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
11 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 6
13 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 13

2
3 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 0
8 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 6
12 damage dealt; Fanatic takes 13

Some DR can’t be avoided, like the advanced powers on some villains (or one side of them, at any rate). The only other way around that is irreducible damage, but I believe only Mr. Fixer can provide that at present.

I think his initial point still stands, though. No villain has an advanced mode that reduces damage by two. It’s likely that at least part of the DR would involve a Twisting Back Alleys or a Gene-Bound Guard. Dealing so much damage to yourself just seems rather shortsighted in most circumstances.

Well, Matriarch does. Both cohorts out, and they are indestructible.

If both are out (high than average probability I’ll grant you), but they’re only indestructible on one side of the villain card.

And her advanced mode doesn’t bring them out faster or at the beginning of the game. Advanced mode or no, they’re just two cards vastly more powerful than they thematically deserve in the least fun deck in the game. I would say the group lost before the game even started, Sacrosanct Martyr or no, if they chose to fight The Matriarch on Hard Mode.

No, but you said “there are no villain abilities that will ever give you a permanant -2 to attacks.” I was just informing you that there is one.

I was more referring to the fact that no villain has the base Advanced Mode of “Reduce damage dealt to villain targets by 2.” But I understand your point with her Advanced Mode’s Indestructible Cohorts, which is essentially a delayed version of “Reduce damage dealt to villain targets by 2.” My apologies for the confusion and my oversight!

I don’t want to spoil anything, but let’s just say that with Infernal Relics DR2 is going to become more common.

The last game I played with Fanatic, I got the Aegis when I was at 2 HP and was killed before I could deploy it.
The 3rd last game I played with Fanatic, the thief stole it (Chairman) before it could be useful.
Truth be told, I’ve never had the Aegis go off in any of my games with Fanatic. Either I’m healthy, or the game ends before I draw it.

Well, that’s depressing.

And sometimes (in two cases) those become DR3!

Ah come on, didn’t you look at the proofs? If you combine that one with the other one, it’s DR4.

If you have the Aegis in hand and you’re facing anybody who can blow up your stuff, then you keep it in hand until you are likely/sure to die next turn. Then you play it. You want to give the baddies minimal time to destroy your Aegis before you get a chance to use it, so that usually means holding out until you’re at very low hp. If you somehow survive the turn, and your Aegis is still up, then you play Divine Sacrifice if you have one and make sure you get to use your Aegis.

I don’t think anyone’s arguing that Sacrosanct Martyr is going to be a power you’re going to want to use every turn, but there are definitely points where something with DR desperately needs to be destroyed NOW (and isn’t under 4) and Fanatic’s other stuff isn’t going to cut it. Huginn/Muninn are a great example. So is Citizen Truth, or one of Voss’s flagships with DR from an environment card, or advanced Omnitron with several components, or Chairman’s Informant with two Crooked Cops. I think this combination of cards is a very important part of Fanatic’s repertoire, especially given that her base power really craps out against targets with DR, but it’s really a trick for specific circumstances, not for everyday use.

Honestly, I think I played in a game with a playtester friend where a certain villain had something like DR:5 on something that had to die RIGHT NOW… Fanatic wouldn’t have helped much on that. Thank god we had ATC Fixer on the field.

In principle I agree with you, but in practice it just doesnt come up much.

Huginn/Muninn I play on advanced mode, so you can’t kill them anyway.

Citizen Truth: Needs to die, but only needs to die urgently if you have other bad citizens out, Hammer and Summer perhaps. And with a base of only 1 DR and the only other DR in Dawn’s deck coming from Anvil, usually he’s not above what Fanatic can deal with the rest of her cards. But yes, possibly something to use SS martyr on.

Voss’ Flagships can hurt, but Fanatic has a lot of options. First she can just hit them, as can the rest of the team. If there is DR from an environment card, get rid of the environment card. If you cant, play End of Days. If you can’t, Chastise it. If you can’t, play Zealous Offense. If you can’t, see if your team can deal enough to it to take it without SS martyr. If they can’t… then maybe play SS martyr.

The above is also how I feel about most of Omnitrons stuff, including the card from Omnitron’s deck that is most likely to be Martyr’d… Electropulse explosive.

Informant doesn’t benefit from 2 crooked cops, as Informant is not an underboss. Maybe you meant the Broker. In that case if anyone can deal it 1 damage it is vulnerable to Final Dive. Otherwise, take out the Crooked cops.

Im not sure what you could be referring to with something that had DR5 and needed to die right now. I can only say that if the Villain was AB, which I’m guessing it was… then Fanatic is probably THE strongest hero against that villain.

Everyone makes some excellent points here. But people seem to be forgetting that your options are limited by your card draws. If you don’t have Chastise in hand, you can’t use it to stop that target from dealing damage. If you didn’t draw End of Days, then you can’t reset the playing field. If the cards described in the OP are the ones that you’ve drawn so far, then, if it’s going to be as bad or worse should you choose to do nothing, you may as well gamble with Fanatic’s life in an extreme DR situation. Sure, there may be a better card in her deck for the situation. But, if it is something that nasty, how many rounds can you afford to wait?

Well, you have to have those cards in play for it to work. But sure, I guess. If it’s your (and your team’s) only real option. (One of) Awp’s points is that that will be really, really rare.

Rare, sure. But, it would work. That’s one of the things I love about this game. There’s always some new, unexpected combo to discover.

Not really that rare… you don’t need to have all of those cards out in order for Sacrosanct Martyr to be usefull against DR. Just throwing one of Fanatic’s low-damage radiant attacks at herself and powering Sacrosanct Martyr allows her to deal out more damage to a guy with DR than she’d do by targetting them with the one-shot and using her base power against them.