Errata Question re: Ammo Cards & Destroyed Guns

Sorry if this has been asked before ... I couldn't find a Search function to search the forums to see if anyone had asked this.

In the Clarifications and Decisions post (https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/clarifications-and-decisions-from-handelabra-christophers-fireside-chats-6773), it says this:
If an ammo card is next to a gun card and the gun card is destroyed, the ammo card remains in play.

Does the ammo card just remain an unusable Equipment card in play, or is there a way to attach it to a gun?

It is an unuseable Equipment card.  Except, if something destroys Equipment cards, it can be destroyed.  This allows for "Destroy H Ongoing/Equipment Cards" sacrifices of a card that is otherwise unuseable.

Search function: white box at the top with the magnifying glass button next to it.

Wow … how did I miss that?  I know I saw it once before, but then when I was looking for it, I somehow couldn't find it … thanks (for the clarification and finding the obvious search box for me)

Basically if an Ongoing or Equipment doesn't give a destruction condition then it stays in play until something else destroys it.

Dark Watch Mr. Fixer says hi. :)

So does Unity ;).

But something else destroyed those things, Fixer and Unity. His point stands

Fixer and Unity weren't trying to contradict his point.  They were just saying hi.

This reminded me of a great pic someone made of Unity turning one of Expat’s gun into a golem. Anyone remember where that is?

Slim and Unity were saying "Oh, hi, cards we can eat without annoying!"

Add in Setback there too, actually...

"Whoops, sorry!"

"Oh, it's okay - I wasn't using it anyway."

Yes.

Excellent points for playing Expat with DW Fixer, Unity, and Setback.

Only around 20 heroes left to go…unless the case people are making about her stagnating ammo cards is that she should exclusively play with post-SotM, pre-Tactics Darkwatch and Unity.

That’d be silly.

Don't understand your point here at all.

The biggest takeaway I get from this is ammo stays behind if the gun leaves, they aren't attached.  That means Guise can borrow a gun and the ammo will stay behind.  The follow up question is what happens when the gun is returned, I would think the ammo is still seperate from the gun, but I don't know if that is how it will be seen officially.

I disagree. Guise puts Lemme See That by a Gun card, that means the Ammo is still next to the Gun. So if Guise uses the Gun's power, the Ammo would also trigger. If for some reason Guise didn't use the power on the Gun, the Ammo would remain there even after Lemme See That goes away. Also Expatriette could place an Ammo on the Gun that Lemme See That is next to.

Bah Ronway, you are correct, even though it has been changed for so long now I still play it like it was in playtesting.  I stand corrected.

I'm sorry, but Guise cannot use the Gun's power in the first place.

• Power: "This Hero's Player may choose to use one power from one of their cards in play which has a power."

Lemme See That edits an equipment card in play so that the name on the card affects Guise instead of the owning Hero; however, it does not make that card part of Guise's deck or move the card to the play area of Guise's player. That means Wraith's MTC would increase Guise's Projectile damage by 2, but Guise could not use Razor Ordnance, if Lemme See That was played on Razor Ordnance. "Razor Ordnanace" is still the Wraith's player's card in play, not Guise's despite it now having Guise's name on it, so Guise cannot use its power. (Just look at the back of the card. Does Razor Ordnanace say Guise or Wraith? That's how we determine the card's owner, not the text on the front.) If Wraith uses Razor Ordnance on Wraith's Turn, then Guise deals the damage. So the real answer is far simpler: Guise cannot use the Power on Expatriate's guns even with Lemme See that, so the Ammo destruction is still Expatriate's player's choice, not Guise's player's choice. Since Lemme See That does not state that the card now belongs to Guise, it still belongs to Wraith. All it does is edit text, not change ownership.

Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy is completely different. It can copy Powers from (for instance) Legacy, and so Motivational Charge text is copied to UYITG's text, placing a that Power on one of Guise's cards. Guise can activate that power because it is on his card, and since Legacy is edited to Guise on that card, so Guise deals the damage. The original Motivational Charge remains in play and can still be used by Legacy with Legacy dealing the damage, of course.

It says all places where it says the other hero it now says Guise.  That includes the back.  So Guise can use it.

Yeah, thats the entire point of the card - Guise is borrowing someone else's equipment in order to use it so the game treats it as belonging to him for the duration of the effect.

I'm sorry, but Guise can use the power on any equipment card if Guise's player played Lemme See That on an Equipment card. 

https://greaterthangames.com/comment/93562#comment-93562

I have updated to the latest rules and clarifications document. I had an old copy that excluded Lemme See that.

I'm saying that some people are expressing disappointment at this mechanic and the reaction from some members seems to be "Good thing these three characters allow you to benefit from this mechanic you don't enjoy!"

It seems like a rather dismissive reaction to a frustration is all. Perhaps I was being more crass than necessary. My apologies.

Sorry Reckless. I wasn't trying to yank a chain, I was just amused by the case where for once your allies aren't mad when you break their stuff. :) It's like how Absolute Zero doesn't mind stranded ongoings, which otherwise are just a mechanical annoyance.

I can respect that perspective. Using Fueled Freeze on idle ongoings is a very satisfying experience!

I don't see where the drama comes from in this case. No equipment destruction EVER targets spefically guns so if you destroy your gun before the ammo it contains well your just being as stupid as destroying the cards under the self destruct sequence before the self destruct sequence... If it wasn't a coop game and the villain could target cards then it would matter. 

That's a little more antagonistic than I would have preferred, but that's a fair point.  My frustration came purely from people expressing disdain at a mechanic and getting responses that there were three or four minor cases in which having a dead equipment card in play would benefit other players.  The mechanic itself isn't terribly offensive.