Challenge Mode Ambuscade

Hey folks,

Recently had a game against this, and whew. Interesting match. I wanted to clarify how some things work.

Just for clarity, it says that traps start face up and whenever a trap would be discarded, shuffle it back in to the deck instead, and play the top card of the villain deck.

Most of it stemmed from Armed and Ready. We hit two traps that were on top of each other. We did the damage and went to shuffle the first one back in to the deck, would we pause there, and resolve the second one fully, then go back and finish resolving the first one, or does the act of shuffling the deck take precedence? I ask because the card seems to never leave the top of the deck, simply do its damage and then you start shuffling the deck.

Second question was, we ended up with nearly all of Amubscade's deck recycling in the trash, due to Knyfe. If we had done this, I assume once his deck got down to just the 4 bombs, they would go off infinitely and kill us all. Is this correct? I know cards normally stay in play until they finish resolving, but the challenge mode states shuffle the bomb back in before it states play another card....

This mode was brutal, regardless. We ended Ambuscade's first turn with the entire team at around 12 hp.

I'd say the trap never leaves the top of the deck, so the trap under it would not be able to trigger.

As for getting to the point where you only have the trap in his deck, then yeah... You're dead.

Okay, good. This means it is a tiny bit easier? But man, its an uphill battle for sure.

Well, it does say "shuffle back into the deck".

It can't be shuffled back into the deck if it never leaves the deck.

But really, I don't think it matters.

Unless Ground Pound was in play.

Hooray infinite loops!

I don't like Challenge mode Ambuscade. I understand he has ways of getting his cards back into his deck, but what if they were discarded and he DOES get to the point where his deck becomes a timebomb of infinite trap plays? It either kills you in a succession of explosions and death, or forces an infinite state, as Migrant pointed out. It's a good thing that's sort of hard to pull off, either way.

I like it, it works like Mad Bomber Blade style timed damage increase.

Or at least it would if he didn't constantly shuffle his cards back into his deck.

As is it is really hard to pull that off.

The damage increase isn't what I have a problem with, it's the forced state of limited plays. Almost like the way Spite is designed to eventually become a robot who does the same thing each turn.

As far as him having a clock and ramping up in practice, it should happen rarely. The only reason we got close is Knyfe played two uppercuts in a turn and both hit 'reshuffle' cards. It was much more normal for him to reshuffle his deck a ton, and pretty rare for it to get even half empty.

Phantaskippy: I agree that it likely never left the deck, but was concerned it may similar to revealed cards and played cards, which go into their own limbo zone briefly. It matters because it would mean extra plays and damage, and he gets so very many plays in challenge mode anyway. Armed and Dangerous is already a terrifying card  in Challenge, and if it turned out that back to back bombs trigger, it may become the most terrifying card in this game.

I had Armed and Dangerous play 7 cards, because it kept finding traps, shuffling, playing a card, then start revealing again.

If that top play is another Armed and Dangerous you can kiss your party goodbye.

Esp. if Haka decides Savage Mana needs fed with devices.

We have started playing Ambuscade with his challenge rules minus the extra card play from traps as the normal him.  It is a great game.

That was an idea we had too. Even just the constant reshuffling in of face up traps is savage, but with an extra play each? Woof. I may suggest this to my friend next time and we will give it a try.

We also tried Challange mode La Capitan. That.. uh.... didn't go great either.

Well, while it might be broken (to those who don't like it) it is a Challenge mode. I consider it a timer for him. If you get to the point where he only has Traps in his deck then, well. Timer up. He's had the oppertunity to lure the heroes into the trap hallway of doom and destruction and dropped a mountain on either exit.

xD

It isn’t really a timer, he has so much deck shuffling only traps shouldn’t really occur unless weirdness happens.

My only real issue with the “play a card” part of the bombs isn’t the power level, ridiculous as it is, as much as how convoluted things get. Which is fine once in a while, but I like the idea of dropping it to give Amby some more teeth, while also not breaking my mind.

Don't get me wrong, it can be done without much problem. But it DOES lead to an infinite loop, which is different from Blade's auto-win. It's just...meh.

I had a challenge mode Ambuscade match where we were actually saved when the third card played by traps while we waited for Armed and Dangerous to find a device was run and gun, which shuffled 5 devices into the deck and we lived.  End of Days was an easy choice at that point.

It does get convoluted, multiple Armed and Dangerous cards in play gets wierd.

Not exactly infinite - the loop ends when all heroes are incapacitated and Ambuscade saunters in to disarm his cleverly laid series of traps. >_<

It's only finite when the heroes receive damage until they die. If Ground Pound, Hypersonic Assault, Offensive Transmutation, etc. prevent damage, then you're stuck. Note this is only possible if for some reason his "shuffle" cards get ditched (2 Run and Guns, and 2 Quick Stim-patches). That's why I acknowledge that it is difficult become stuck, but the possibility exists.

All you need is all devices out of the deck and to hit Armed and Dangerous, and reveal the shuffle cards without any getting played by finding traps.  All the revealed cards will stay out of the deck until the chain resolves, which it won't.

Yeah, all you need is him having 10 specific cards not in his deck, playing 1 of 2 cards remaining in his 15 card deck, and for that card to reveal 4 more very specific cards before finding a trap.

Ew. Yeah, that works too...although it certainly doesn't seem right.

Which is actually less difficult that requiring all 4 shuffle cards in the trash at the same time.

Not that it isn't incredibly rare, but there are ways it can happen.  The key is all devices need to be accounted for by being in the trash, in play or played by traps mid-chain for any of them to happen.  The 4 shuffle cards have to be dealt with, but they don't have to start in the trash, but even if they were all in the trash to start, you don't have a loop until the devices are dealt with, which mid-loop should be harder to get rid of.

The odds are still really, really low, and then only for a non-balanced challenge mode.

Which can be simplified to: remove 10 specific cards from his deck and play 1 of 2 cards remaining in his 15 card deck, and INEVITABLY play the other traps in his deck over and over until death or other infinite cycles.

Yes, it's difficult to pull off. We know. But it's there.

It's an unbalanced play mode used to up the challenge. Even though it could happen, I'm not sold that this is a huge deal all things considered

By getting rid of the line I made, you no longer have Quick Stim Patch and Run and Gun accounted for. By not factoring them in, you have now opened up the door to when one of the traps are on top of the deck, that when it reshuffles and places a card, that it plays one of those two cards, this will reshuffle the trash back into the deck, bringing all devices back with it. 

Oh okay. Well, it would be easier to pull it off by somehow discarding those four reshuffles before they were played then.

I wouldn't say most challenges are unbalanced, but this one seems to be particularly so just because he's Ambuscade.

Which probably lands at percentages lower even than the Megalopolis + Citizen Dawn combo that gives you no cards in hand to start, and then Traffic Pileup ends your game when you have no card play or damage base powers.