Mr. Fixer / Fixed Point / Kaarga

Morning all!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've got a bit of an oddity on my hands, and I was hoping that someone would help me sort it out.

The situation is as follows: Fixed point is out. Kaargra is a target, as are Orrim, Idesa, and Perith. Mr. Fixer has Dual Crowbars and Grease Monkey Fist in play, and a Jack Handle in hand. Play is to him.

From what I understand from prior posts I've read on this forum, Fixed Point allows Mr. Fixer to play one of his tools or forms, and not have to return one to his hand. I'm guessing that this is because returning cards is a form of destruction?

If Fixer plays his Jack Handle, and then strikes, it seems like he'd be able to chain the Jack Handle and Crowbar to deal infinite damage, as every time he damaged someone he'd deal that damage to every villain target, and everytime he damaged a villain target he'd be able to deal that damage to one other target, into infinity. I would assume that you continue to deal the damage even if the villain card has zero HP, as Fixed Point keeps them from being destroyed.

If that's correct, does he fulfill that conditions of Crowd's Favor multiple times, and essentially garners as many points to the favor pool as he wants?

Here's another thing I'm unsure on: if the heroes manage to reduce a gladiator to zero, they are not destroyed. Upon the start of the environment turn Fixed point goes away, and they go into the trash. Would the heroes then count as having destroyed a non-hero target for points to crowd's favor, or does the fact that the targets are not destroyed by the hero, but rather by Fixed Point leaving play negate any points gained?

Further, The Living Weapon title is up for grabs. Would Mr. Fixer, having reduced a villain to zero qualify if they're not destroyed until the environment turn?

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

First of all, welcome to the forums!

Second, where did you read that his tools can be in play simultaneously? His styles definitely can, because their condition is destruction. And actually, once Fixed Point leaves, he would STILL be able to keep them, since the destruction trigger took place upon each tool entering play. Fixed point does some amazing and crazy things to heroes.

So, your entire question seems moot having pointed that out. Also, whenever there is an infinite combo happening, chances are that there's something wrong going on. We do our best to make sure those things don't happen.

As for your zero HP question, Fixed Point is merely life support. If you pull the plug, it's not as though the environment destroyed the cards; the heroes did because they reduced their HPs. I would also imagine it would not matter if it were Fixer's turn or not when the targets leave play. It was still Fixer's damage. So he gets the title.

The current consensus on Jack Handle and Dual Crowbars is that it becomes 2 Jack Handles at +1, so two sets of 2 damage (+ other buffs) to all non-hero targets. If he had Grease Monkey and Harmony out, he would deal 4 damage and earn a colossal amount of favour (1 for each hit, and 1 for multiple targets), but normally it would just be the 1 point.

I would not consider it Fixer destroying it for the reason you cite. Fixer hit it and reduced it to 0 hp or less. but it was not detroyed .Time moves on. When it is destroyed in Fixed Point's destruction, Fixer does not gain it.

Jack Handle turns you attack into an all target attack.  Dual Crowbars turns the attack into 2 attacks and increases damage by 1.

So together you get 2 attacks at +1 damage that deal damage to all non-hero targets.

For more fun add in the sentinels and have Writhe use Blackout to damage Mr. Fixer with this setup. (Blackout would cause him to deal 2 damage to each non-hero target)

That would resolve as such:

1. pick a non-hero target, then deal 3 damage to all non-hero targets twice.

2.  Pick a different non-hero target, then deal 3 damage to all non-hero targets twice.

3.  repeat step 2 until there are no targets that haven't been picked already.

Also I agree with PWatson that anything that cancels destruction resets the party responsible for destruction.

Being indestructible means it can't leave play for any reason. That's stated in the rulebook. Coming back to your hand from play can't happen while fixed point is in play. So yes you can get multiple weapons out for fixer 

I have been under the impression that Fixed Point prevents things from being removed from play, whether or not they would be "destroyed". This would mean that Fixer could have multiple tools, Omni-X could have multiple platings, etc. because they couldn't be returned to your hand.

Welcome, cokeandsympathy!

FYI: Per the Rulebook's Glossary (page 18), "If a card is indestructible, it cannot be destroyed or removed from play." Returning a tool to hand is removing from play, so Fixed Point prevents it.

EDIT: Ha! Should have known I'd get ninja'd…

Welp, ignore me then. I guess I didn't know there were extra stipulations on "indestructible."

I still would contest the fact that Fixer was no longer responsible for destruction, even if "time goes on."

Returning to the hand isn't the same as remove from play mechanics to me, but I understand the semantics behind the two. It would no longer remain in the play area = it is "removed from play."

Then in cases where a target is reduced to 0, damaged further, healed, but not above 0 and then destroyed, who gets credit?

Also take Lady Luck, it prevents destruction, even at 0hp, which means you burn her deck until a card fails to prevent her destruction.

Haka may reduce Kismet to 0hp, destroying her, but if that destruction is prevented then why would he get credit for destroying her?

Welcome to the forums!

I still think if there's one clear source of damage that destroyed the target, they should be awarded. If multiple sources hit it, then fine; it becomes ambiguous.

After thinking for a while, I’ve come to think about the destruction like this:

1. Target takes damage, reduced to 0 HP.
2. Check if it should be destroyed.
3. Fixed Point is responsible for the card to not be destroyed.
4. Fixed Point is destroyed for whatever reason.
5. Fixed Point ceases keeping the target from being destroyed.
6. The target is destroyed.

When I look at it that way, I think there are 2 cases I could believe about who detroyed the target (and I prefer the first one):

1. Fixed Point is responsible because it was previously responsible for the target staying in play.
2. Nothing is responsible. No effect that would normally cause a state change to destruction was affecting it.

I never thought about this before. Thanks for the opportunity to expand my thinking.