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Guise and The Naturalist Interactions

6 posts · 330 views · started 2015-01-20 23:17 UTC
NY
nyrens
2015-01-20 23:17 UTC
#1

Sorry if this has already been discussed - I looked and didn't see it.

When Guise guiseshifts into The Naturalist using "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy" while The Naturalist is in a Form, "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy" gains the Form's text. The Form's text includes the phrase, "Guise's Player may activate (color/animal) effects." It's now The Naturalist's turn. He is in Crocodile Form, and he plays Bestial Shift. What happens?

Guise has a card that says he can activate Green Crocodile effects. The Naturalist just played a card that has a green crocodile on it. Obviously, The Naturalist can activate the Green Crocodile effect to deal 1 target 3 toxic damage and then use a power. Can Guise also activate that with the text on "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy"? If so, what does the Green Crocodile effect do? Does it result in:

(1) The Naturalist deals 1 target 3 toxic damage and then The Naturalist uses a power. Even though Guise activated the text, the text still refers to The Naturalist and doesn't get changed by "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy" because it's a One-Shot and not an Ongoing.

(2) The Naturalist deals 1 target 3 toxic damage and then Guise uses a power. Guise is activating the effect, and the text of the card says "The Naturalist" deals the damage, but "you" activate a power. Since Guise is the one activating the effect, the "you" refers to Guise.

(3) Guise deals 1 target 3 toxic damage and then Guise uses a power. I have no idea how one could argue that this is the case, but I guess it's a possibility.

(4) Guise cannot activate Green Crocodile effects on cards The Naturalist plays, so none of the above occurs.

 

What about when, during Guise's turn, Guise uses Natural Form's Power. What happens?

(I) Guise activates the Green Crocodile effect and Guise deals up to 2 targets 1 toxic damage each, and that's it.

(II) Guise activates the Green Crocodile effect and Guise deals up to 2 targets 1 toxic damage each. Then, The Naturalist activates the Green Crocodile effect and Guise deals up to 2 targets 1 toxic damage each.

(III) Guise activates the Green Crocodile effect and Guise deals up to 2 targets 1 toxic damage each. Then, The Naturalist activates the Green Crocodile effect and The Naturalist deals up to 2 targets 1 toxic damage each. 

 

As a followup question, what about The Naturalist's form-based Ongoings, like Resilient Hide. Resilient Hide states: (Purple Rhino) At the start of your turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP. Which set of the following happen:

(a) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP.

(b) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 2 HP.

(c) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, Guise regains 1 HP.

(d) At the start of Guise's turn, Guise regains 1 HP.

(e) At the start of Guise's turn, Guise regains 2 HP.

(f) At the start of Guise's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP.

There are two cards in play. One has the Purple Rhino effect "At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP." The other has the Purple Rhino effect "At the start of Guise's turn, Guise regains 1 HP." Both of them can activate Purple Rhino effects. So, at the start of The Naturalist's turn, one Purple Rhino effect triggers. Can they both activate it? If so, (b) happens since both trigger since both players are triggering the text on The Naturalist's version. If not, then (a) happens. Then, can Guise activate his version of the purple rhino effect at the start of The Naturalist's turn? I'd expect no, but if so, then (c) would trigger. And then, the converse. If (a) happens, I'd expect (d) to happen, same with (b) and (e), and (c) and (f).

EDIT: To reword this last one, I can only see three valid outcomes here  (all assuming Resilient Hide was played prior to "Uh, Yeah, I'm That Guy"):

(A) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP. At the start of Guise's turn, Guise regains 1 HP.

(B) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP, then The Naturalist regains 1 HP. At the start of Guise's turn, Guise regains 1 HP, then Guise regains 1 HP.

(C) At the start of The Naturalist's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP, then Guise regains 1 HP. At the start of Guise's turn, The Naturalist regains 1 HP, then Guise regains 1 HP.

SP
Spiff
2015-01-20 23:33 UTC
#2

Wouldn't Guise need to wait until his turn to activate the crocodile effect, at which point it would be gone because Bestial Shift is a One-Shot?

NY
nyrens
2015-01-20 23:53 UTC
#3

Why would he have to wait until it's his turn to activate the Crocodile effect? The crux of my questions is, can you activate colored animal effects when it is not your turn if those effects are put into play? The text "You may activate Green Crocodile effects" does not specify that they have to be YOUR Green Crocodile effects or even effects on your cards, or that they have to be put into play during your turn.

AL
AlexxKay
2015-01-21 00:07 UTC
#4

As I mentioned recently in another thread, when you look at the *rulebook* discussion of Naturalist, it says that you can activate matching effects "when you (emphasis added) play a card with an icon that matches the form THE NATURALIST is currently in".  If Guise was able to play a card with such an icon, he could use the power that matched The Naturalist.  Don't think he can, though.

MC
McBehrer
2015-01-21 01:14 UTC
#5

He can use natural form’s power, though. It would function just like as if The Naturalist used it. Guise deals the damage. He can use the start of turn stuff, since the text for that is above the start-of-turn destroy-this-card text, but it would only apply to him, not the Naturalist. Basically, he just copies The Naturalist. Anything he can do, Guise can do. No extra shenanigans.

He can benefit from Natural-Born Vigor’s start of turn effect, though, which is awesome.

PH
phantaskippy
2015-01-21 01:18 UTC
#6

I also have raised this question, and it is answered in the rulebook for Naturalist.  Guise does not activate effects on one-shots unless he plays them.

I don't think there is a way to pull that off, unlike PW Cosmic.