The Visionary has played Twist the Ether on Chrono Ranger. Guise uses Uh, Yeah, I'm that guy! to copy Chrono Ranger. Is the TtE copied? What if Guise copied the Visionary?
What if the TtE was played on Unity's Cryo bot, and Guise copied Unity?
TtE is owned by the Visionary so he would need to use it on her to be able to manipulate it.
Let's say he does use it on Visionary. His Uh, Yeah, I'm that guy! now has the text of Twist the Ether. Does he chose a target then? Same question with other attached ongoing like Impale.
My gut feeling is those cards attach when they are played. Since he only copies the text on the cards, the card wasn't ever put into play (for Guise, that is), so such text has no target and hence no effect. But I've been wrong before with this set.
I would be inclined to go with what you said tht the copied TtE would not have any effect.
Uh, Yeah copies every ongoing card in the high-5d players area, so TtE would be copied if you copied Chrono Ranger, it doesn't care who owns the card.
Since the text isn't played next to a target it would have no effect.
Agreed
So because Twist the Ether only affects what it's next to, and doesn't designate by name, it doesn't work with Guise.
That's unfortunate.
Sure it does. it's in Chrono-Ranger's play area, that means it affects Chrono-Ranger. Now it's also in Guise's play area, so he gets the damage buff and type changing power.
It's just that this sentence made me think otherwise. If the consensus is that TtE works with Guise, then I'm fine with that. Just trying to get things straight here.
Twist the Ether would not is Chrono-Ranger's play area, it would be next to him. While it would appear to look as though it was in his play area, it would not be there per what it says. Now if it said to put it into a play area, that would be different.
That logic doesn't hold up.
What if TtE is played on Raptor Bot in Unity's play area. What would happen to TtE? Would you say it just automatically attaches to Guise since Raptor Bot can't be copied? Why?
The card gets copied, but without it being played on a target when it gets played, it does nothing. I think this hold true in all cases.
It does not get copied, as it is not in anyone's play area.
Boy, THAT is something I think needs to be checked. Sure thats what it says, but those early set cards were fairly loose with their language. It wouldn't surprise me at all if was intended to be in the character's play area.
However i do think that some cards are "attached" to targets which does not involve the play area at all and I think that this is probably how TtE works since it is not restricted to character cards. If it were restricted in that way I would be more likely to think it meant to be in the play area.
Wait, where is play area defined as not including the hero card - and by extension TTE?
Good point, maybe being attached to a card does include being in the play area. Even if you attach it to say one of Voss's minions it would still be in a play area. It you attach it to a character card and they are considered in the play area then I guess TtE could be considered there as well.
Early sets?
Dynamic Siphon
Play this card next to a hero character cardVitality Conduit
Play this card next to a targetComsic Weapon
Play this card next to a hero character cardOh, sorry I keep using Captain Cosmic. Let us try someone else
Cortex Hyperstimulator
Play this card infront of a targetMicro-Assembler
Play this card infront of a hero character cardLemme See That...
Play this card by an equipment card.
Ronway, what makes the Hero Character card *not* in the play area?
For Example, we know that for The Sentinels, all of their character cards count as "in play" for various card effects that effect heros with the most cards in play (they start out with 5).
How can cards be counted as "in play" but not in "a play area"? That doesn't seem to jive.
Edit: saw the picture you posted, but thats a matter of design, not proof character cards are outside of the play area. They couldn't have written "Play Area" over the character cards if indeed character cards are in the play area.
Furthermore, if it's not in a player's play area, where is it then?
Just re-read the rulebook, it appears the character card and deck are in the play area. However my point still stands that Twist the Ether is next to the card, not in the play area.
But the question is, if a card is "in play", how can it not be in "a play area"? Would you still call it Visionary's play area? Is the play area right next to a character card not still that characters play area anymore? I think thats convoluted.
Much like the Title deck, Colosseum card, and Crowd's Favor card, it occurs in the overall play area.
It's in play, and spatially (or, more importantly, mechanically) grouped in with Chrono-Ranger. This says that it is in his play area, to me at least.
Now, I can actually understand it not attaching to Guise, though. It would copy TtE, but since it is just appearing in Guise's play area -- as opposed to specifically attached to him, (which IS still in the play area, but in the play area doesn't mean next to him. It's like dogs and animals thing. All dogs are animals, but that doesn't mean all animals are dogs.) -- it doesn't have an attached target to do anything to.
So if I place Twist the Ether to the right of a character card it would be in the play area, but if I place it to the left it would not be. Good to know.
But seriously, if the Character card is in the play area (it is) then a card next to it would define the line of the play area.
Also Twist if copied by Guise would not be placed next to a target, it would not matter if it was in a play area or not, it wouldn't affect Guise. Because the card isn't placed next to him, and he isn't designated by that specific action as receiving the buff.
Whether Ronway or my interpretation of the implication of play area is, Twist the Ether can not affect Guise by copying it through Uh, Yeah, I'm that guy.
So there's the answer, how many cards can dance on the head of a play area is something we can discuss later. . . or not.
I'm more inclined to believe that it is in The Visionary's play area, which just happens to extend next to another character's card.
If you're curious, in the video game, every player has a few locations where cards can be. Play area, deck, hand, trash, etc. And each card has two locations where other cards can be - "next to" and "under". That is where Twist the Ether goes - in the "next to" location of a card that's in a "play area" location.
Guise and Wager Master are going to be.. interesting for many reasons.
This has almost nothing to do with my statement. I wasn't saying that wasn't the wording on cards, I was saying that the wording on cards was loosely used when compared to intent in those early sets. As someone else mentioned in another post, earlier in the design people had a more laid back atittude compared to the language lawyering that we have now. (The thread I'm speaking of had to do with hair trigger and fowl back when the play the next card was on the fowl and not on the Matriach card). As a result, anytime an odd case comes up considering early sets I am interested in yes, the wording on the card but also if there needs to be clarification or a tightening up of that wording.
And now we are totally going to get a clarification on that. This character will prompt a ruling on whether you play a card to the left or the right of a hero. That's going to actually happen…
Now it all makes sense. Guise was created for the entire forum to lose its mind.
Seriously. Look at the comments on this character. It's a thing of beauty.
Guise isn't complicated and hard to understand because it's thematic with his playstyle or character. He's complicated because he can laugh at all of the nerds that play the game he's in being utterly confused about how his deck works while tearing each other's arguments apart. Rulebooks will go dog-eared and have their staples fall out due to this character!
That is brillaint work, Greater Than Games.
Because this conversation is too simple, lets throw a new interpretation into the mix! What if, when you play "Uh, Yeah, I'm that Guy" and it copies a card that says to play it next to another card, since "Uh, Yeah" copied that part of the text as well, you were supposed to then put "Uh, Yeah" next to a valid card, which it would then affect? So, TTE is on Raptor Bot, and you play "Uh, Yeah" on Unity, copying TTE because it's in Unity's play area, which makes you put "Uh, Yeah" next to a target (possibly even Raptor Bot for hilarity!) giving it TTE's ability for as long as it's out.
Of course, now "Uh, Yeah" is in Unity's play area, causing "Uh, Yeah" to copy itself, and... *head explodes*
We actually covered this in a different thread, due to a different question. UYItG enters play, and then copies things. So anything that it copies that triggers when it enters play doesn't trigger for UYItG because it has already entered play.
Ah, okay. Thanks! So many discussions, it's easy to miss stuff around here.
Yep. Aren't new expansions fun?
Mini Expansions rule, because we didn't have nearly enough rules fights for far too long.
I think for the new Villains Expansion we should have an official ruling death battle royale for each rules question. Last forumite standing determines what the ruling is.
Please, this discussion is nothing compared to Rule #15.
I thought we all agreed to never speak of it again
Speak of what?
nudge nudge wink wink say no more
Well, I'm glad someone finally got it.
Only appropriate, given how awesome I am, right?
Well, I was aiming for rulebooks being thrown at each other, or even just thrown away - I mean really, what's the point? It's so much easier to just go with it, am I right?
Hey, now, I had a big part in this, also! Can't just give them all the credit!
Definitely! Not as fun as me, but yeah, they're fun!
I certainly made no such agreement.
Besides, I'm still amazed all the other heroes allow themselves to be controlled by the rules. Seems like they'd want to rebel against such constraints, ya know? Cast off the shackles, so to speak? Or in Tempest's case, maybe put them on…
. . .
oh noes.
It finally happened. Someone made a Guise account.
You were expecting someone else? 
I was legit suspecting you got a name change, actually. But then I saw you posted earlier, and that debunked the theory.
Yep. No relation to this account. Though I am surprised it didn't happen earlier.
Eh, I've been busy. You all have been playing a lot of games with me - kinda hard to get out here and post when I'm busy saving the Multiverse!
Hey!
There's only room for one pretending-to-be-someone-else account on these forums, get off my lawn!
I cast SUMMON MYSELF!
A wild CRAIG appears!
It uses SUMMON SELF!
It's not very effective!
My dear gods. I'd forgotten that account exists.
I don't always post, but when I do it's super-effective.
I prefer imprimis6.
Does ImprimisX go back in time to stop all the evil things Imprimis did throughout his versions?
I'm looking forward to the mini expansion when we get to fight a villain inside Imprimis4. Then again... ugh...
I call your ugh and raise you an eeew.
If imprimis takes 7 damage, what components are destroyed?
All his internal organs go straight into the trash.
And I'll call your eeew and raise you a :blurgh:
No donor card? No wonder he's a villain.
