Couple of questions about Wraith and Stealth

I apologize if these have been asked before, in my defense I've read through spliff'worlds greatly useful rules and clarifications document and these are still unclear

1 - Let's say Wraith has one instance of Dodge active and she takes 1 damage. Let's also say there's an environment card that reduces damage dealt to her by 1. Even without dodging she would take 0 damage: does her Dodge get used?

2 - Wraith has Smoke Bombs in play, an instance of Dodge active and is the hero with the least HP. She gets damaged: does Dodge activate, or can she keep it active since the Smoke bombs make sure she would not take that damage?

[Edited name to remove Dodge. I had been so confused by it that I briefly, accidentally moved this topic into the Tactics forum. -- Andy]

Stealth gets used up completely on the first instance of damage that Wraith avoids. Got her racked up to 10? 1 damage burns it all.

Redirect says that she won't take damage, so she will still have Stealth available.

Her stealth would still get used up, since it is figured into the equation at the same time as the minus 1, and therefore brought the damage she was dealt to -2 (which is functionally identical to 0, except for the possibility of it being further increased without her actually taking damage.)

Now, for the smoke bombs, she would not lose the stealth, since redirection changes the target and nullifies any damage increases or decreases, and then recalculates for the new target. So, if she were being hit for 5, it would redirect to the hero target with the highest HP and then be reduced to 4, not 2. She would then keep her stealth.

Ninja’d, but that is a good point I forgot to mention. Multiple uses of stealth (not dodge) do increase the value by which she reduces the next damage she takes, but it does not allow her to reduce multiple hits. She has to use all of it on the NEXT HIT she takes.

...Right, I don't know where Dodge came from. Probably from posting at 3 AM.

Yeah, I know stacked Stealth has to be used all on the first hit, wether it's 1 or 15. I wasn't sure if I could avoid using it up by first reducing it to 0 with other means. Thank you both for the clarification.

An attack of 0 damage will consume Stealth.  It seems dumb to me, but that is how it works.  It can't be redirected, but it will consume your reduction, even though damage cannot be reduced below 0.

It does in the app right now, but that is being changed. Talked about here:
New player here - and query about how Haka works 

So then Stealth would not be triggered by an amount of 0 damage, which means that an attack of 1 damage to Wraith when she has Stealth active and reduction of 1 from say Bulwark, you could choose to reduce the amount by 1 with Bulwarkfirst, then Stealth woul not trigger.

It is important to remember that all damage modifiers fall under the simultaneous effects resolve in order of players choice rule.

… Which I don’t agree with. I think it should use up the stealth, because, although you didn’t need to apply it to prevent the damage, it doesn’t give you an option. It is the next time you would take damage, so both of the reductions kick in.

Its not used up. Agree or not, thats what Christopher has ruled from the Mr Fixer discussion.

Yup. Because no damage was dealt. So it can't reduce damage that wasn't dealt.

By the same logic, if any target is taking a hit of exactly one damage, and there's both a +1 and a -1 damage appliable to that hit, can I choose to apply first the -1, reduce to 0 and then not apply hte +1 because no damage is being dealt?

Because Wraith's Stealth isn't worded in such a way as to use a different "step" in damage calculation than all other modifiers out there

0+1 is 1

You don't stop because you reached 0, you still do the rest of the stuff.

You can't interrupt the process, but you also don't apply:

"The next time you would be dealt damage"

In situations where you wouldn't be dealt any damage.

Zero damage is attempted, because it can be increased, but 0 damage is not damage dealt.

An instance of 0 damage can still be increased. Look at "Drawn to the Flame" in Ra's deck. Even with no Villain Ongoings in play, his Staff will still increase the damage of that power by 1, making it usable.

dealt damage (damage dealt) must be done in HP reduction. it is the same reason why Solar Flare and Pushing the Limits will be destroyed if you do not take damage from them, which translates (roughly) into the same reason Stealth is not used up at 0 damage.

Zero damage is only relevant when applying potential modifiers, like in Sky-scraper's power when she's in her big form. She deals zero damage of friendly fire, which to me is nothing more than a clever way to illustrate her recklessness. As lynkfox pointed out, HP must decrease for damage to occur

I mean, it makes sense, and I'm not denying that that is what the ruling is. I just don't think it should be. But I can live with it. It makes things easier, at least.

On that note, does that mean an instance of 1 damage, reduced to 0, would not get redirected by smoke bombs or driving mantis? (or Wrong Time and Place?)

Also, while we're here, is Wrong Time and Place the first time damage is dealt each turn, or the first time damage is dealt to each target each turn?

Yes, because no damage is dealt.

I would apply the same ruling to Backlash Field and Flame Barrier, and it would be for each target.

Wrong Time and Place:

The first time a Hero Target would be dealt Damage each turn, redirect that Damage to Setback, or remove X Tokens from your Unlucky Pool to redirect that Damage to a Target, where X = the amount of Damage.

The first time Baron Blade is dealt Damage by a Target each turn, Baron Blade deals that Target 3 Lightning Damage.

The first time Ra is dealt Damage by a Target each turn, Ra deals that Target 2 Fire Damage.

Flame Barrier and Backlash are not worded quite in the same way as Wrong Time and Place. I would be hesitant extending the ruling from the first two to WTaP. 

I'd say they are different and that WTaP only applies to the first hero target that gets damaged each turn, not each hero target. But I know there is dissagreement on the forums on that.

WTaP has been discussed before.  This thread failed to get any official resolution, but there seemed to be a general consensus that the wording is most similar to Miss Information's Character Card, which would limit the trigger to the first hero target to get damaged each turn.

Fortunately for Foote, his opinions on this thread and that one appear to be consistent.

I cast Summon Moderator! I humbly request that "dodge" in the thread title be corrected to "Stealth". Every time I see it I think it's going to be about Tactics.

Also Craig is awesome.

Me? Consistent? I don't believe you.

Edit: Just re-read that thread. I was not consistent! I knew it! The consensus was that they were the same, and that it would trigger for each hero target. 

Really?

*rereads thread*

You're right!  This is what I get for trying to read things...

Here's my thought process.

Backlash Field says: The first time Baron Blade is dealt Damage by a Target each turn, Baron Blade deals that Target 3 Lightning Damage.

Reworded, this card says "The first time a target deals damage to Baron Blade each turn." Each target is independant of one another, so it appears to be a new condition for each one per turn. So the game will check to see if Raptor Bot has dealt BB damage this turn, and react accordingly. It will do the same to Turret Bot, Platform Bot, etc. 

However, moving to Wrong Place and Time, we have: The first time a Hero Target would be dealt Damage each turn, redirect that Damage to Setback, or remove X Tokens from your Unlucky Pool to redirect that Damage to a Target, where X = the amount of Damage.

The wording appears to be the same. Each hero is still independant of each other. The only difference here is they are not dependant on dealing a specific target damage.

Re-arranging the wording shouldn't matter, should it?

just to clarify, if the amount is 0 to the lowest HP hero target then Smoke Bombs will not redirect.

If 1 damage would be dealt to the lowest Smoke Bombs will redirect, then lower it to 0.  So it would be 0 damage to the highest, which could then increase above zero for things like nemesis bonus.

Yep, sounds good to me.