Definition of "the next damage dealt"

I want to make sure I play this correctly.  Where is the dividing line for "increase the next damage dealt" for powers like Haka of Battle or Absolute Zero's incapacitated power.  Let's say Haka of Battle is played then Haka uses Taiaha.  Does it increase both attacks?

Now for AZ's incapacitated power.  When Fanatic deals 1 target - 1 melee damage and 1 radiant damage, are both increased by 2?  Then how about Ra with Inferno or Drawn to the Flame where multiple targets are affected, or Chain Lightning?  I'm looking to know where to draw the line between the next damage dealt and the damage after that which will not be affected.  Thanks in advance.

It’s only the first damage, not the first power or card. Only the first instance of damage will be affected by Taiaha, Fanatic, Inferno, etc.

Only the first post is correct.

The one that asked the question?

*sigh*

Now I can't delete the dupe.

The jokes are just too good...

/Thread

Who's the dupe in this case?

Something happened to me while playing the app version that I definitely would have misplayed in real life, so I figured I'd share it here.  It was a few weeks ago so I'm making up some details, but here's the gist:

I used Haka of Battle and discarded several cards.  Then I absentmindedly attacked Dawn whilst on her flipped side.  On Haka's next turn I attacked a citizen and whomped them for a ton of damage.  It makes sense in retrospect that since I had not dealt damage to Dawn, the damage to the Citizen on my next turn was my "next damage dealt".  I just never would've thought to play it that way in real life.  

Thanks.  I learned from others now I have to sort out the good information from the errr....  uhhh....  Miss Information.

I also ran into an interaction I thought played out differently.   Playing in Ruins of Atlantis Toxic Weeds came into play and I didn't destroy it.   I had the Visionary play Mass Levitation and use it's power.  I thought Toxic Weeds would deal damage first but it ended up not attempting the damage until after Mass Levitation took effect.  It dealt no damage because of that.  

That’s because saying you are using a power isn’t a separate step. The only way to use a power is to actually use it and have it resolve. Only then, do triggers based on using a power activate.

Don't feel bad for getting a few things wrong! The app also taught me something. Damage changed by Twist the Ether that is then redirected can be changed again using Twist the Ether. So yay for learning stuff!

Really? Seems like a bug.

I believe the app asks you a second time (because it re-checks all adjustments after the redirection), but it doesn't actually apply it twice - the second, post-redirection choice replaces the first, pre-redirection choice.

That's exactly what I was refering to.

Pics or it didn't happen.

And still seems like a bug. Why should you get to change the choice?

Because all bonuses are recalculated when redirection occurs.

You look at all the cards and see which ones are applicable for this new target and apply them again/for the first time, choice of plus or minus 1 and type of damage are parts of the bonus that TtE applies.

This can lead to some fun times, like increasing 4 damage to 5 to get it to trigger IL's redirection, then knocking it down to 3 to trigger Wrench/Mantis Fixer's redirection.

Visionary shenanigans are epic.

You say this, and yet it still doesn't seem right to me. The reason many cards are reapplied after a redirection is because the target has changed and therefore which cards are relevant has changed. Twist the Ether is relevant regardless of the target, so I don't see why its affects would be reconsidered. Yes I can see how tactically it could be very helpful, but so what?

It is correct. It has already been confirmed by MigrantP that Christopher has said this is how it would work.

For me, it's an issue of consistency. If one adjustment (say the Nemesis bonus) has to be re-checked after redirection, they probably all should. Because Twist the Ether is an adjustment, it should be re-checked.

That's just my thoughts, though.

Exactly, all or nothing.

Huh. Must have missed that. I suppose Visionary is just more awesome than I'd realized.

The ruling is the ruling, so I'm no longer arguing how it should be played, BUT, the reason I don't find this consistent is that Twist the Ether affect's the source of dealt damage, not the target of dealt damage. If Legacy has out Fortitude and deals damage that is redirected, you don't have to check whether or not Fortitude is still in effect, because the source of the damage hasn't changed, just the target.

Edit: To be clear, I can see why y'all think of it as consistent – after a redirection, check everything. Just because Fortitude still applies doesn't mean it wasn't rechecked. I get that. I just saw Twist the Ether as something that wouldn't change. Christopher says that it does? So be it. I think, however, that what I described was just as consistent, albeit less simple.

Yours is more of a splitting into source damage and target damage.  Source damage stuff doesn't change.  Target damage stuff does.  So only recalculate the part that does.  And yes, I include Nemesis bonus as target damage.  Its change is dependent upon the target.  Twist the Ether is source damage, since its effect is independent of the target.

This is the order I use when determining damage:

Choose source of damage (One-shot, Power, etc.)

   -Adjust damage with any global modifiers for damage dealt (Obsidian Field, etc.) I also normally keep track of global "damage taken" adjustments here for convenience.

   -Adjust damage based on source of damage (Galvanize, Imbued Fire, Twist the Ether

Choose target(s). For each target

   -Redirect as needed

   -Adjust damage based on target of damage (Damage reduction, Nemesis bonus)

   -If there is a "next damage dealt" adjustment, it goes here, then goes away for any further targets.

   -Target loses HP

My personal opinion is that damage does not need to be micromanaged to a ridiculous level. I understand there is a large discussion of exact order and timing of damage operations. Like all "unclear" situations in Sentinels, ultimately the players may choose to interpret the order as they choose. If your group wants to argue about which modifier comes first or if you can use the same bonus more than once because of your special situation, more power to you, but we normally prefer not to take 5 minutes to decide on damage bonuses every time :)

Damage calulcations isn't unclear, this is how damage works.

I did want to point out that your method actually doesn't follow the established rules.

Redirect comes after all damage modifications, and those modifications can happen in any order regardless of source. However, you cannot redirect damage before taking into account the modifications of the target of the damage. If the target of the damage reduces the damage to 0 or fewer, you cannot redirect the damage.

Here is an example of where redirect happens after all modifications: Mr. Fixer has Pipe Wrench and Driving mantis out. If the initial damage is 3, he can reduce that to 2, and then redirect it. If the initial damage is 1, it would be reduced to 0, and he can't redirect it.

Your link doesn't work, what are you trying to link to?

Fixed (I think). Just the thread I made a little while ago that goes through the damage dealing process.