Primewars

Hey everuone. I was just wondering about the prime war status. I preordered the profit one and been waiting. Since the change happen i had to wait long. I still love this game so much i just kinda want to expand what i have already.so if theres any official word on it status weither its in play testing if its in playtesting how far is it? And if 2018 is going to be the release time.

Also what will prime wars and the other expansion (im assuming theres another small one since there was a big and small expasion in the original preorder) include character wise.

This announcement has the information you are looking for.

It is being worked on, but I can't give you official word on anything as to planned release date.  There's a lot of work left to do.

From waht I am aware, the main box will contain the characters you see in the art through that link, and the smaller box expansion will have The Ennead.

And maybe Akash? She was supposed to be bundled into the Broken City/For Profit package, but I have not heard or seen anything about it for Prime War. I mean, having Akash in that expansion theme makes way more sense, but Idk if she has been scrapped along with the previous expansion or not.

I through Akash was meant to be a standalone expansion not bundled with Broken City/For Profit

That's correct

I meant that it was coming bundled with the preorder of BrokenCity/For Profit.

I don't believe that was the case.  

I don't believe so, either. Here are the news items I could find: 1 & 2. 

I believe they were doing initial design on her at around the same time as the pre-order, but I don't think anything was announced. I might have missed it, though. 

its likely the case I just misremember it since it's been so long

She definitely would fit the new box, being the reason the Wardens were assembled in the first place, but at this point there is a lot up in the air.

Ya i recall she was going to be a mini expansion by herself because of all the moving parts they wanted to do with her. I would love some kinda of update on prime war though soon. Its been a few months since the last yes this is alive and we are working on it and this is what is going on update… aka, Christopher and Paul this is me politely asking for an update. 

I wouldn't expect one for a little bit.  The last few steps of OblivAeon are a huge deal, and he needs to do a few things to help the SoEP kickstarter.  It is being worked on, but kind of around him, not through him at the moment.  If that makes sense.

ya I figured but worth a try

I've been holding off on making 'what's happening?" posts myself, trying to be patient. I think the pre-order folks have for the most part shown extraordinary restraint so far with little news on progress. I know there are many other irons in the fire for the company because I hear a lot about those projects. An occasional taste would be nice.

I'm excited because the Prime Wardens are my fave SotM team, Sky-Scraper is also awesome, and the cover art is both cool and raises some questions so I want to see more art/bios.

Mostly the 180 costume changes of Argent and Cosmic. Argent's gone from fussily ornate and spandex-y to something rather practical and workmanlike (and also ditched his instruments for a songbook), while Cosmic's gone from Cheerfully Dignified Space Dad to Really Pissed Off and Scary Space Dad. Also apparently Tempest liked the look of their XTREME double.

Now that you mention that, I'm wondering if that might be Xtreme Tempest -- like if that version of M'kk got stuck here during the fight with OblivAeon.

from what's known of the Xtream Prime Wardens, they all left the regular SotM reality. So unless they came back to fight OblivAeon and we had another unfortunate casulty in that fight, I think that's still our Tempest.

Maybe the real tempest died in the oblivion event the the extreme tempest is taking his place

I mean it would make the most sense to bring out Akash with this wave since she brought the Prime Wardens together the first time .... *coughs*

I agree.

ooooooooooooooooo this sounds something interesting.

I will agree though knowing more about where Prime War stands would be nice. It has been almost 2 years since I backed it.

I have to admit that I was disappointed that it wasn’t even mentioned in the May update. I know it has been worked on just would love to see a mention of it. Perhaps it can be worked in as an alternatr combat system for thr RPG.

Mechanically, the combat system for Tactics and the RPG are different enough, and thematically, they are two separate timelines, so I doubt there is any likelihood of that.

I know that >G really wants Prime War to succeed, and once Oblivaeon is done, there will be nothing else in the way. As part of a team that really likes the game, we're excited about the way that development is currently going, and we're eagerly anticipating the launch of Prime War and the subsequent competitive season. However, also as a fan, i'm measurably more interested in having Prime War, and the Tactics product line continue past this edition, and in order for that to happen, it needs to be excellent, rather than fast. >G may have pulled the trigger a bit early on announcing the expansion, but there is a genuine interest in delivering a good product, and to have a competitive scene and good story that lasts into the future.

To be completely fair, had they not announced it, there’d likely be the exact same questions and discussion, just sub Broken City for Prime War.

Not to put words in anyone’s mouth, but >G will likely announce more when they have something to announce. Unfortunately, there’s a few people who have been burnt by the delays and the process; Christopher wants to make sure to do right by those people, even if it doesn’t always feel that way.

I meant BC. announcing it less than six months after the release of the first core game release. Although it was the catalyst for my game group to try the game, it was still probably a little too quick of a turnaround, considering the relatively unknown competitive scene.

I asked in comments section in the April update if there was any news. Paul responded "Not yet. We'll have more info about that after OblivAeon is completely to the printer and off our plate." So just keep holding your breath I guess, they'll tell us when they tell us.

True I would love a progress at least so we know it's been getting some attention and not just the baby that's been put in the corner for 2 years

Nobody puts Baby in the corner!

lets be realistic, with the current track record of the company since we had the preorder way back in Feb 2015, once oblievean is done, then it will e the rpg, and then new sentinels of earth prime, another kickstarter designed and delivered before this game.  The question is not when they deliver but if at the end of 5 years and we finally get it, if the "here a little something for sticking with us" is worth the interest of the so far 3 year intrest free loan. If this pre-ordered had been done through kickstarter, it would of been worse for greater than games, by it being a pre-order, most people have forgotten they have ordered this, where on kickstarter, you see everything you have bqcked and people would see how long it has been and the complete and utter lack of news of any substanial sort.  at this point, listen to letters, they put more effect into that than this game cause you get more info on the timeline so you will know who all is alive in this game.

This is not an accurate assumption.

@godzilla999666

We definitely don't want to hang on to anyone's money if they have lost confidence in Prime War! We are more than happy to give you a refund if you would like one.

Can you confirm that Prime War will be the next thing out of the gate after OblivAeon since people have already paid for it?

Right, we know Sentinels of Earth-Prime is next, but that's just Christopher designing the cards.  No one from >G is helping out with the art, the printing, and as far as we know, the playtesting (though I bet they do some of their own playtesting on their own time).  However, it does sound like the RPG is next.  I'd bet that they work on Prime War after that, while they wait to see if it's worth doing an expansion for the RPG.

As far as I know, the RPG is primarily being tested by the design team and their playtesters. That may change once the Starter Set is out, but from my perspective, there is nothing on the >G playtester's plate after OBV except for Prime War(as Green Ronin is Publishing SoEP, I'm assuming they will likewise have their own playtesters on that product). I personally think that Prime War is getting all of the attention it can at the moment, and have full faith that it will get the focus it needs and be Greater Than most people's expectations in due course.

As someone who loves the Tactics game and storyline, I have nothing but excitement and eagerness to have Prime War come to fruition. I can tell you that my team and I have been pouring all of the love we have for the game into playtesting and giving feedback, and although we are only a drop in the bucket(compared to OBV), Prime War is not falling by the wayside.

The fact that some passionate playtesters are spending attention on it doesn't mean it hasn't fallen by the wayside.  It's obvious it has fallen by the wayside, and rightfully so given GtG's other urgent priority (OblivAeon).  But if Tactics isn't going to be the next thing out the door at GtG, then I think I will take Paul up on his refund offer (as soon as I can figure out how to do that…).  I gave GtG $163.73 back on Jan 19, 2015 for Broken City, For Profit, and the painted minis.  If fulfilling that two-year-old order isn't their very next priority after OblivAeon, then I need my money back.  I've been patient enough.

I'm hard pressed to disagree with Spiff. We've received little information about products already paid for while I have lots of emails from >G about other products coming along, being developed, printed, sold. I understand from Rysmith6's post that playtesters have been testing play and giving feedback. But have there been changes and adjustments in response to this feedback? Where's it at in development? I feel partially that regardless of the amount of playtesting done, that without little official news or updates from >G there may have been little actual work done on the products since we were told they were scrapping the original concepts over a year ago.

Yes. Quite a lot. Iterations and version numbers were coming out at a pretty furious pace before the PT forum had to buckle down for the all-hands-on-deck OblivAeon stuff starting flying at a much higher clip.

We all keep saying this, and you all are free to keep not believing us, but work has been done and will continue to be done. Any more than that I can't talk about. But thats the truth, plain and simple.

Your response regarding iterations and versions makes me much more sanguine, thank you.

The problem is that Tactics is stuck in a single long development cycle. Lots of progress can be made, but it’s all incremental. There is no good way to describe the progress that has been made, and it’s difficult to estimate how close it is to completion. All you can do is periodically assure people that work is continuing, because there won’t be any evidence to show for it until the end.

This is starting to read like Duke Nukem Forever. Which seemed like it was always being developed.  Hopefully a better outcome at the end though. 

Periodic assurances from company staff have been the thing that has been missing.

Kind of like waiting for Doors of Stone.  Only we've actually had at least some updates regarding Primewars.

I guess the major difference is that for other projects we have gotten a chance to see art, read about rules and rule changes, glimpse mechanics and receive a general understanding of the state of the project. Since I backed the original Tactics pre-order, we have received little info outside of the initial launch information and the blog post explaining the complete scrapping of the original game for the new Prime Wars.

I don't think any of us doubt they are working on it, but we have received no information or indication of progress on the project outside of playtesters promising us they are working on it. From the outside looking in, this game appears to be a low priority for >G and a project that looks to be unlikely to finish this year due to the impending launch of the RPG, time spent finishing deck design for Earth Prime, and of course the massive hurdle of launching OblivAeon. 

We have literally seen more about the RPG (system, art, character design, expected lore) than we have for Prime War...

Well the RPG was announced in May of 2015 and Prime War was announced in August of 2016.  So the RPG has had a longer period of time to have information released. Prime War, however, has a stigma of being the replacement for Broken City which was set for preorder in January of 2015.  

Also, the more they provide art glimpses now, the more likely they are to run out before the big sales push right before the game is released.

And the rules changes are in flux until testing is complete, so of course it’s difficult to say anything about them.

I repeat my earlier statement.

Right now, we are focusing on OblivAeon development in-house, plus doing project management (and graphic design via Jenn and Ray) for the RPG while Prime War playtesting percolates. Once OblivAeon is to the printer, we'll work on Prime War development in house while doing project management, graphic design, and editing on the RPG to get ready for the KS for that post-OblivAeon delivery.

That having been said, if anyone would like a Prime War refund, I'm more than happy to do that! Shoot me an email at paul@greaterthangames.com and I'll take care of you. Just as a heads up, I'll be a bit slow to respond until 9 June due to ACD Games Day and UK Games Expo.

Thanks, Paul.  I sent you an email asking for a refund.

I feel kinda bad now. I meant this post to see if there was new information not get people riled up. I am sorry for that>g

your fine uu. There's a lot of people who want info on this and the lack of what is going on is frustrating for them. Myself included. I am just going to give it time but a blog post of what has been done since last gen con to explain the challenges would be great, and something I recall Christopher promising a couple months back

Thanks Paul for the offer of refund I will be taking you up on it.

Any news at all on Primewars?   I really want this game to succeed.  A superhero tactical mini game is so cool.  The only problem I have with the core game is that it's a 1 vs. Many.  I don't care so much for the skirmish side of things, I want to do the stories, but I'm always the Game Master, so I don't get to play the heroes.  

No news since the last update.

Yes, that’s tautological.

A few things:

• The stories that play out will likely continue to be driven by the "Villain vs Hero team" thing. That's a core bit of fantasy that won't be tinkered with much.
• Why is it that you think that being "game master" prevents you from playing the heroes? If a player has the capacityy to play as a hero on the hero team, they easily have the capacity to also play the villain. Switch up the roles!
• What don't you like about 3v3 and 5v5 skirmishes?
• Would other "game modes" interest you and your group that are not the storymode 1vMany or classic deathmatch style of skirmishes?

Tactics isn't going to get an update until OblivAeon is finished and at the printer.  Christopher has said as much.

Tactics is getting attention and work from some of us in the playtesting group, and we have a lot of the fundamentals done, it will move well once OblivAeon is done and no longer dominating the attention of Christopher.

That said, don't shirk on Foote's questions, there is a lot of stuff, including different styles of play and game modes that we are trying out, so feel free to give your thoughts.  They will be listened to.

I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of capture the flag style mode Where you are trying to prevent the other team from getting your flag and getting it back to their base. 

another mode that could be fun is a form of changing abilities each turn. This mode is where you have to take both ability cards down shuffle all your ability cards, then lay 2 down. This randomization should break up someone using the same 2 ability cards all the time and Change things up a bit and can cause some shenanigans. 

Finally I have always felt the difficulty on the scenarios always go toward the heroes so I would like to see these balanced some more. But we need a lot more scenarios. 

Finally a question. My thought process was oblivaeon is pretty much at the printers at this point, so what is still being playtested besides prime, unless we are talking the rpg and my understanding was that was mostly done as well

OblivAeon is by no means at the printer's yet.  It's still a work-in-progress along with Prime Wars and the RPG starter kit per this month's update.  All the other parts of the OblivAeon kickstarter are in production or pre-production, though.  The full RPG isn't even on the timetable yet; I'm guessing it won't be until after its own Kickstarter (which will be shortly after OblivAeon ships).

I'm on the other side of the equation. I like the fact the scenarios aren't balanced, it's way better for story-telling and far more true to comic narratives. After all, the villain is hardly going to let the heroes have a fair fight with them most of the time.

My main niggles are the fact that it works out better to just go full-on offensive in most cases (in skirmish play), and lack of co-op (however limited). I'm pretty sure both of these are mentioned elsewhere on these fora though, and "AI" is difficult to sort out for games like this, so the co-op angle isn't that big of a niggle, more of a hope.

Objective base game modes like CTF or Territory Control could be fun though.

I'd rather play the game completely cooperatively than play against anyone.  I also disagree with your statement that if they have the capacity to play as the hero, then they can play as the villain.  In a 1 vs. Many format, it is generally the more experienced player that gets the "1'. Most players (at least in my group) won't step up to that.  But, as I said, it's more so that I prefer cooperative games.  

Skirmish is okay.  It's the cooperative thing agian.  My kids, most of my gaming group and I would -especially with a superhero setting - prefer this game to be fully cooperative.  Lots of other games have done it where there's the capacity for 1 vs. Many and Full co-op.  I'd like to see Sentinels do that.  

Another factor is that this game would see a lot more play-time alone if my son and I were on the same side.  1-on-1 story-mode isn't a lot of fun.  2 versus the AI, that would be great.  

I'll be honest. Tactics doesn't sound like it's the game for you or your group given everything you've said.

>G already has a solid stable of full co-op games, and Tactics from the beginning was designed to be something different from that. It's only going to be semi-cooperative at the very best and needs to fill a different itch in their roster of games. If you are looking for a fully cooperative game, or even a fully cooperative alternative mode, this will not be the game to give you that experience. 

Many format, it is generally the more experienced player that gets the "1'. Most players (at least in my group) won't step up to that

It's not a misconception in my case for sure.  Out of my usual gaming group, one flat-out refuses to play the villain in scenarios like this, and one could be pressured into it but wouldn't give the rest of us much of a challenge.  On the other hand, there's one more player who would be willing and would do a perfectly good job, but I usually end up doing it by default anyway.

Why can't there be an alternative mode for full cooperative?  Why is it locked into 1 vs. Many?  TMNT is a 1vs Many, but they also promised to release an expansion that would make it full coop.  Imperial Assault is exploring ways to make it a pure coop.  Mansion of Madness 1st edition required a game manager, and now the 2nd edition doesn't require it.  Why is Sentinels so locked in?   Why does it have to be a core mechanic?  This isn't exactly a fundamental change in the game from where I'm sitting.    I think they'd appeal to a broader base if there were options.   That's just how I see it.

That being said, I really like the game and I'll continue to support it.  I want to play it more and I appreciate the feedback and the discussion on it.  Since it's Father's Day weekend, I'm sure I can get the kids to give it a go either a skirmish or story mode.  My son loves SoTM!  

HonestlyThis type of game is completely possible coop. There is already several examples of it including ones that have scenarios. Mice and mystics comes to mind as a great one that. 

People i I have played againist are usually frustrated with the 1 vs many because either a, the many completely overpower the one or b) the one does something that locks down the many and they don't feel like they are having fun anymore

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.  I'll explain what I mean in this context.

A long time ago at the height of my KS purchasing, I bought Mars Attacks. Now, it wasn't really my style of game, backed it more out of nostalgia, but it was also a miniature tactical game that promised a solo/coop mode as a stretch goal for an additional purchase. So they created an AI deck. The game isn't really amazing to begin with, but the solo/coop mode might as well not have existed. It was ineligant at best and just tacked on to the base game system. The issue, as I'm sure the creators found out, was that their game system was just not designed with solo/coop in mind at all, and to try and deliver on that promise while making it both elegant, engaging, balanced, and fun, would require so many new assests, systems, mechanics, and rules, that you might as well be creating a brand new game from scratch.

Idk anything about TMNT or Imp Assault. But I'll hazard a guess that, when they do introduce co-op modes for their primarily cometitive game systems, it will likely fail in one or more of the bolded catagories above. 

Could we create a pure co-op mode for Tactics within the confines of the current game systems? Sure. Would it be good? I'd bet it would feel like a half baked idea tacked onto a system that was never ment to support it. You may not think its a fundamental change in the game from where you're sitting, but in order for co-ops to succeed they need a system desgined specifically with them in mind. From my perspective, it's a massive change, and one that is far out of the scope of the rework.

Again, these are my opinions and do not nessesarily reflect feelings or opinions held by >G, just to make that clear.

Well, there are at least three major choices each turn for a "Tactics AI": Power Card, Action One and Action Two.(some characters have three actions, but everyone has at least the two. Branching from there, every attack needs a target, and the choice to spend Aim and Attack +1 tokens. Every Defense needs the choice to spend Dodge and Defense +1 tokens, and also to assign blocking dice. Before they get there, the AI would need to get into range, which means they would need to move into range, which is a decision as to what path to take and how close to get before stopping, and do they sprint? If one were to decide on utilizing an "Ultra-Agressive" AI, one that spends all tokens when it can, and moves as little as necessary, attacking at every opportunity, there is still a question of any and every card that says "may" on it. If you wanted to have an AI that always uses the same two(or three) power cards, then at that point, you're more or less playing that character anyway. As someone who routinely plays multiple characters at the table, I may be a little biased and jaded; however, treating the "enemy" or "AI" team as always doing the most obvious and agressive thing seems to me the closest thing you will get to an "official" co-op mode.

TL;DR, SotM is a fantastic Co-op title, Tactics is meant to be competitive. If you want to make it Co-op, treat all of the decisions as the opposite of SotM player decisions: if there's a decision you get to make for the "villain", do it to your disadvantage.

@Foote and @RySmith6 thanks for the feedback.  I appreciate it.  

 

Some games just don't work that well as co-op. But that's fine because there are plenty of great dedicated co-op games out there that you could play instead!

i like the new coop game called Damn it, Ronway. It's where we all just blame Ronway. Lol

Just chiming in to say that there is a pretty high demand for a fully cooperative mode, though, because the majority of people who sought out the game are cooperative, SotM players. As tthorn23 said, there are working, loved examples of it being possible and, in truth, when I backed the original KS, I expected to get a superhero Mice & Mystics. Now, I know GTG was upfront about what it was at the very beginning so it's not like I feel cheated in any way, but my expectations did not match was what delivered and I can hazard a guess that that is true for a number of people.

Quite frankly, people didn't like the system and they heard that, which is great, and are making strides to change how the game plays. I think it's really important when a company can listen to their fanbase and self-correct. But I can't deny that, in my own opinion, they would have had a larger hit on their hands with a cooperative game a la Mansions or Mice & Mystics (and now Gloomhaven). Since it's still in development (again)...I think some are well-founded in seeing if they can nudge GtG in that direction.

I'm not a playtester or anything.  But I would estimate that adding a fully cooperative mode would mean another year or two of development at least, on top of what is currently being done.

As the saying goes:  Fast, good, cheap - choose two.  (In this case, replace cheap with cooperative.)

You can complain about the long dev time, and you can ask for a cooperative mode.  But I don't think that you should do both at the same time.

I totally have an "I Blame Ronway" tshirt. I play that game all the time!

I was actually introduced to this game via tournaments. I saw them and fell in love with this competitive aspect of sentinels. I love sotm and it will always have a special place in my heart as my favorite board game of all time. Now that being said ive always wanted to be the bad guy in stories. My first game i played baron against wraith and unity. It was such a difficult battle for me but it was so much fun. I appreciate the departure from coop games that >g is doing in tactics. Its similar to Isaac the greater of gloomhaven. He made a coop game but didnt stick to that type of game. Changed it up as you will. Stagnation in one mechanic or experience seems very detrimental to any game company and i think that stands for >g just the same.

Let's be fair though. M&M was designed specifically with co-op in mind. The core game system it uses is perfectly suited for it. This is very much not the case for the base system that Tactics uses. This comes off strongly to me as an Apples/Oranges comparison.

Edit:

To reiterate a previous point. We could absolutely tack on a coop mode. But I don't think there is an elegant way to do it that would turn out to be a satisfying experience given the current confines of the game system. I'm sitting here thinking hard about ways to do it, and the first problem that springs up is how do you design an AI system for tactical movement on a Hex board without creating instant confusion about the path that's supposed to be taken. How can we do that in a clear manner? Do you scrap it for some kind of stationary "Boss" that spawns turrets/robots/citizens/bombs on random hexes? Would that even be fun? If it's fun once, would you want that same thing for all possible "bosses"? Gets old. Maybe we don't have a "boss" and just make players go through stationary objectives through the map with some kind of limiter mechanic like a timer of some sort (a disable the bombs scenario). Again I'd ask would this even be fun? Does it fulfill the fantasy this game is shooting for? 

Look at Galaxy Defenders for AI movement on a Hex board.  

At Range 0 - they do X
At Range 1 - they do Y
At Range 2 - they do Z
More than 2 - they do something else.  

It's a pretty fast-paced system.  It doesn't have to fully mirror the choices and options that players have like the +1's and what not.  Just tell people what to do.  

I've been playing Mechs vs. Minions on-and-off with some friends. There are things there that could help us get to some interesting options, but I think most of it's AI is built into the game, making it hard to do something similar. 

Plus, while I'm a huge coop and SotM fan, I don't think Tactics is meant to be coop. It just isn't. If we want it to be, we will probably need to come up with some home-rules to make it happen... 

The lack of co-op play is one of the things that keeps me away from Tactics. The other is, well, the whole "measure out hexes to figure out your movement/attack/whatever" fiddly detailed shenanigans necessitated by the gameplay of the sort of game it is.

But not playing it, as a SOTM fan, feels wrong. :( So I'm all for methods to try and houserule it into something else, and I'm sure this community can come up with something workable given enough time.

I would play the hell out of a digital version of Tactics.  I'd play the 1-v-many scenarios more if the setup didn't take so darn long.  I've played a lot of D&D, especially the fiddly 4th edition, so I don't mind the slower gameplay, but setting everything up for one game takes me close to half an hour.

i can set up Arkham Horror in about 20 min. It shouldn't take you anywhere near that long for Tactics

Yeah, I don’t really get this attitude that it’s not possible to make a co-op mode for Tactics. “All” we would need is a good decision engine for the villain to run.

Now, I put “all” in quotes because I fully realize that this is a non-trivial task, but I am sure that the engine would support it. There would certainly have to be a lot of thought put into it.

would love to summon Christopher and get his thoughts on the possibility of this. It would be a fun addition to this

Sure, a co-op variant for Tactics is probably possible. I doubt very much it would be as good as a game that was designed to be co-op from the beginning though.

I mean you can use a fork to whip cream (my aunt never used anything else) but it's faster and easier with a whisk.

We already have a co-op Sentinels game so it's not like there's an unfilled niche here.

I've heard this a couple of times from different folks. One thought to keep in mind: If a person loves tactical, mini-based games and wants to play one themed for Sentinels, the card game will not meet those interests. However, if a person just wants to play a coop, superhero game, the card game does fit those interests. 

It just depends on what we individually are looking for in Tactics… 

Oh, I get it. There are games that would be perfect for me if one thing got changed (Patchwork playing more than 2 players, for example) but that doesn't mean that the games would actually be better for the change, or that the necessary modifications are worth all the effort.

As designers you have to draw the line somewhere - you can only accommodate so many player requests before a game becomes a huge bloated thing that does everything, but nothing particularly well.

Just because I prefer 4-player games doesn't mean Uwe Rosenberg should redesign Patchwork.

hopefully they will comment on this and see if they are doing anything different or messing around with prime war a bit. When I see something that says testing of Oblivaeon internally tells me the playtesters may not be working on this right now so they may be working on prime war a bit currently that it may not impact it greatly

Here’s something I wonder: we’ve heard that whatever rule tweaks come out of the Prime Wars development effort will lead to some compatibility changes to the existing Tactics games. I wonder when the Prime Wars playtesting will reach a point when we’ll know what those are, and how they’ll be made available.

Things are always subject to change, but I do recall Paul saying at some point in the past that there would be a "conversion kit" made for the first Tactics set. Something like this could include, but not be limited to, updated character panels and power cards, ect.

I'm unsure if that is still the current plan, but I my best guess is that it likely is. When that would be available and what, if any, cost would be associated with getting such a kit is unknown to me.

When will you know what these changes are? I'd plan on not knowing the full extent of changes from the first set until Prime War is actually completed and said conversion kits were being created. In the playtesting process things have been known to change and shift even during the late polishing stages of development.

We will definitely be making a conversion kit for the existing Sentinel Tactics stuff (whatever that winds up requiring), and we'll definitely be sending that for free to all pre-order-ers as well as making it available for sale.

Ah, so this sounds like something more involved than a PDF of rule addenda.

Sweet:D

FYI from Paul's State of GTG post in General Discussion yesterday Prime Wars remains a work in progress.
 

Current WIP Focus by GTG

1. Sentinel Comics: The Role Playing Game core rulebook (Christopher, Jenn, Critical Hits)
2. Prime War (Christopher)
3. Legend of Sleepy Hollow (Chris Kirkman + Jenn)
4. A new and improved website (Jenn, Paul, Joel, etc)
5. A cool Sentinel Comics related thing for 2018

According to the latest OblivAeon KS update all files are to the printer. So hopefully we will get an update regarding the status of Tactics and Prime War soon.

From what it says on the 'State of GTG - November 2017', the next thing to be focused on is the RPG. But Prime War is right behind, so we can always be hopeful.

And that Earth-Prime Kickstarter just announced that it's behind schedule due to OblivAeon and requires Christopher's attention to get any traction going. So, expect that to be higher on priority as well.

Not to rub salt in the wound, but it's gotta stink that it's been 3 years since Broken City was announced/preordered and the only public movement this year is that "Mist Storm" is the new name of the product line.

I asked in comments section in the April update if there was any news. Paul responded "Not yet. We'll have more info about that after OblivAeon is completely to the printer and off our plate." So hopefully there will be more info. I will be disappointed if they keep moving goal posts even for just news and updates.

@fenianb

I mentioned in my State of GTG post today that we had a major meeting about Prime War last month. We also have a week of intensive work on the system scheduled for this month. Now that OblivAeon is done, we are going to be devoting more resources to moving that forward. We already have some dramatic progress internally, and are happy about where the project is heading.

To give you a sense of the timeline, our goal is for Prime War to be demoable at Gen Con this year. We will probably make a public anouncement with quite a few details some time around or shortly before Gen Con. Before that (so, some time in the next few months), we should have stuff up on the Playtesting forum.

Hooray more info!

Hooray for Progress

Cause, i really am very curious about Cosmic now that he seems to be ridiculously powerful in Miststorm.

I honestly forgot I pre-ordered Broken City and For Profit, and it was incredibly difficult to find information about it since I had no idea about Prime War and the big changes. A sticky at the top of the forum might be a good idea.

Also, what do I do if I need to change the address on my preorder?

You're absolutely right. I'll see what I can do about getting a more visible official thing somewhere.

As far as changing your address, just shoot us an email at contact@greaterthangames.com with your order number and your new address, and I'll get you updated!

Ah a new year. Wonder what news we will get on tactics.

I'm so far behind on the latest gossip and going ons.

Whats this now?

It's from the Wager Master episode of the Letters Page. Although it's more of a lore-based label than an actual printed-on-product name.

(Which I greatly suggest getting caught up on if you're not already; I miss your theorizing and there's a lot of good fodder in the Letters Page stuff, particularly in Argent Adept/Akash of the Many Names and Fanatic/Apostate's LP episodes.)

Yes, they said on the Letters Page that the official name of the “RPG timeline” is “The Sentinel Comics Universe” because it turned into the flagship universe for Sentinel Comics publishing, while the “Tactics timeline” was named after the most prominent visual feature of the universe to become “The Miststorm Universe.”

(Of course, as soon as they said “most prominent visual feature,” I immediately thought to myself, “oh, the Shard Universe, what a cool name!”)

Most prominent feature? So the Doom & Gloomiverse, then. :V

I just call it “The Darkest Timeline”.

Prime War has been mentioned relatively high up on the WIP in Paul’s ‘State of GTG’ posts the last two months, and I believe Prime War related accomplishments have been included in the Stuff We Got Done section in November as well as December.

So it appears to be moving, but how quickly I’m not sure. But I shall choose to be cautiously optimistic.

So demo at Gencon 2018, so hopefully it might possibly arrive by Gencon 2019? only years late lol, it has now worst than a kickstarter about delay of delivery.  Hopefully this will deliver sometime while i am still able to play it.

Yeah, in my catch-all Tactics Lore thread I called it the "New Darkest Timeline", because everything is just terrible except the fashion sense of Argent, the Operative, and Haka.

But I'm a simple woman with simple needs; just give me a Prime Wardens mini-comic, an Argent Adept miniature, and Tempest and Sky-Scraper becoming besties while on the same team, and I'll be reasonably content.

I am doing my best to not form any hopes/opinions about when to expect anything on Prime Wars. That way, I won’t be disappointed when/if that date passes, but I’ll be excited when an actual date gets announced.

Of course, Paul is making that difficult with all his exciting talk of progress being made. But I’m trying.

just wish they would talk a bit more about what that progress is

Sentinel Tactics universe is separate from the rpg universe? Sounds possible in a multiverse with dimensions and time travel and temporal branches. Is it also separate from the card game universe?  Is there a transcript of the Letters Page sessions? I don't follow the podcast.

We don’t have a full transcript but WalkingTarget has written summaries you can find under quick notes of each episode here https://sentinelswiki.com/index.php?title=Podcasts

Also, since the beginning of the podcast they’ve made it clear the RPG and Tactics game are separate timelines that occur during the end of the OblivAeon event.   The RPG was started right after the OblivAeon event ended comic wise and Tactics started a few years later.  

Thanks for the link. Yeah, now that I recall Tactics was always a future timeline of many. But nice to know the predominant ones have names.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. We made a joke on Adjacent Hex #22 that we MIGHT be able to buy Prime War as a high school graduation gift for my co-host's (at the time of recording) 6mo old daughter but yah, I think letting GtG function on Blizzard time on this one will yield an awesome product. I, for one, am certainly not in a hurry to pull my preorder!

@Samwise137

I definitely hope to have Prime War available before your co-host's daughter graduates from HS, but we are definitely operating on Blizzard time with this particular product. :)

Blizzard time?

Just so long as you're not on Valve time!

Blizzard Entertainment is notoriously known for announcing a game and then maybe 5 years later it is released.  

It has more to do with releasing a product when it's ready, instead of releasing it to meet an arbitrary deadline.

I get that but developers as big as them the expectation anymore is when you announce a game it means we are within a year maybe two of its release.   It has happened enough with them that it is a running gag for them.  

Still a better track record than Square Enix.

As long as you beat the Duke Nukem Forever timeframe you're doin' good.

For people wondering about progress, we do currently have stuff to playtest for Prime War, so progress is actually happening.  I don't think I can say any more than that though.  I hope I was allowed to say that much.

They've mentioned publicly that there's stuff in playtesting before, so I think you're safe there.  (Seriously wishing I was a playtester right now).

I'm ok with @rjc917 saying that, and I can confirm it :)

Today marks the third anniversary of the start of preorders for Broken City and For Profit, with the at-the-time expected delivery by end of 2015. With current stated plan for demos by GenCon this year I expect we'll be celebrating another anniversary in 2019, but hopefully Prime Wars will be in our clutches before we see a fifth! :)

@fenianb

Your hopes align with my own :)

But did Blizzard announce pre-orders and take people money as a interest free loan for the years the game was in development? so glad people can joke about being horribly late with projects and promises

Yes.

Relevantly to my own joke, Duke Nukem Forever took preorders. There literally was actually people who successfully redeemed 15-year-old preorder receipts.

I remember people posting those receipts.

Technically they made those payments to stores who expected to distribute the game, not to Blizzard itself.

Blizzard didn’t make Duke Nukem Forever.   Ultimately Gearbox Software did after being tossed around a few times.  

Also quickly coming up on the 4th anniversary of when we ordered the map scenarios.   But I guess I'm an optimist too since I still have my preorder in.

At the LiveStream test of the Oblivaeon KS update (actual livestream update next Tuesday) dm576-studios asked at approximately 9:20 What is the status of the Tactics that some of us may have pre-ordered YEARS ago??? Answer was that playtesters have recently received new files, no other info or details.

https://live.kickstarter.com/greaterthangames/live-stream/live-stream-test