Phantom's House of Fun and Speculation!

Hello every-body! The name is Phantom5613, but since you seem like a good kid you can call me Phantom. I'm a new-comer to the SotM Forums, but I've been playing the game for quite some time now. And I've been loving every minute of gameplay(aside from today, when Miss information wiped the floor of the FV HQ with AZ's face, but I swear that the only reason that happened was because the sun was in my eyes! ...And that a T-Rex was eating the rest of him at the time... -.-6 ).

I'm not sure if I'm stepping on anybody's toes or posting a topic that is already on a more popular thread, but I'd like to speculate a bit about the as-of-the-typing-of-this-post unknown(to me) heroes of the future 'Vengeance' expansion in the future. If there IS such a thread out there, then I will gladly shut my trap and go visit it. But, since I haven't seen one in the admitedly short time I've been here I will say my piece here for now.

As far as we know right now there are five brand spanking new heroes planned for, as I'll call it until you guys come up with a better idea, 'Veng'. Now we haven't gotten any info on these mysterious do-gooders, but I have a few theories...On three of them at least.

The first, which I'm the most confident about, I'll nick-name Schrödinger. This guy may be familiar to you, especially if you've played against Kismet or paid attention to the art on Expatriette's Shock Rounds. He's a shaggy hiared guy dressed in a black and yellow spandex suit with a white box chest symbol(Familiar? Here's a hint: Kismet's Nemesis Symbol...) and wears a TMNT style bandana mask. From what I've seen of this guy he has some crappy luck. Not only is he getting his fanny kicked on a few of Kismet's cards, but he's also getting zapped by a (supposed) ally's attack. Now, all that could just be a result of the poor guy being the Trickster's sworn ememy, but I'd like to think that he's just naturally unlucky. None of his powers seem to be too apparent on any of the cards we've seen so far, so I don't really know anything else about him.

I'll leave it at that for now. I still need to brew over the other theories of mine...

I'll link you up. :)

Ah, thank you kind sir! I guess I have to get my other theory up even faster now, eh?

My next theory comes from yet more card artwork. Specifically "Projected Paralysis" from the Dreamer's deck. Warrning, this is just a theory from a guy with too much free time on his hands...

On this card we see the Dreamer restricting a gigantic woman merely with the power of her mind. Now this is really cool, but after looking at her for a moment, something hit me(which was probably obvious to most of you, but I digress). This person has an amazing likeness to another character. Namely the self-made conqueror of the Multiverse, Grand Warlord Voss. Or at the very least she's a Thorathian. The reddish skin, the bony spikes coming from her back and elbows, the glowing eyes...

This just got my brain thinking "Okay, this is a Thorathian. But why is she here? Why would she be 'fighting' against the Dreamer?" The alure of even more powerful psychic abbilities that he could control and replicate could be a large draw for someone like Voss, but to me that just doesn't seem his style to send just one person after the Dreamer. She's incredibly powerful and would most-likely take down all but the best of troops, and I think Voss is smart enough to even then not send just one. This leads me to believe that she's a heroine.

Now this is just pure speculation on my part but I think that there's a small, teeny-tiny, just about feasable chance that this girl could be the estranged daughter of Voss, or at least related to him. She resembles him more than to the other Thorathians that we've seen(Field Lieutenant Tamar and First Lieutenant Vyktor from Voss' deck and Vicious Cyclone from Temest's, though granted that one seems to also be Vyktor.) with their bluish skin. She seems to have powers not natural to her species which we've only really seen on Voss. Granted we havent's seen Voss grow to giant level heights, but I'm talking about the sheer presence of powers.

Or I could be reading into it too much. There's bound to be at least a few Thorathians who didn't whole-heartedly agree with Voss systematically taking over their planet, even if he was a noble.

Look at the icon, I had this thought that it would be cool if Miss Information's nemesis was named "Bracket".

I also thought, given how Miss Information works on her first side, it might be interesting to experiment with the idea of a hero that didn't have hp, and wasn't a target... but if all the other heroes were incapacitated, the heroes as a group would still lose the game. A hacker/watchtower type who works from afar supporting the heroes indirectly but can't act against the villain directly themselves.

I don't think either of those are likely, mind you, just how I'd do it if I were designing things and wanted to experiment with the format a little.

Phantom, welcome!

I am a huge fan of wild and random speculation as most people around here have figured out already.

Your initial thoughts on Twitchy are extreamly consistant with popular speculation theory at the moment. Themes about being unlucky or being based on "Fixed Outcomes" all see to be valid guesses at this point.

Giganta (my own nickname for now) as a Thorathian? I don't have my cards in front of me, but you might be on to something. Those horn things are extreamly similar to what we see on Voss. A hero Thorathian would be very interesting, but I guess I would be a little weird having a Thorathian hero thats not Voss's nemisis. Bouncing off of that thought, she could possibly share Tempests icon (highly doubful though). OR, a more likely possibility, we will see another version of Voss (like bomber blade or cosmitron). She as a Hero we probably wont see till our "Cosmic" expansion though and not Vengance. There is rather large and powerful unknown force out there thats been strongly hinted at. I would think that if she does turn out to be Thorathian (or anything non-human for that matter), that she would make more sense coming out with that expansion theme.

Check out my speculation post about Mainstay, another Hero that we anticipate to be released with Vengence. Would love to see some more thoughts on him (though we do have little information to work off of). I think he is the guy with the chains that Iron Legacy is kidney punching and Nemisis to La Capitain.

Another Hero that most of us are expecting to see is the 5th member of the Prime Wardens. No solid clues as to what his name could be yet (at least not that I know of), but he can be seen on Argent Adepts Silver Shadow card which portrays all 5 members of the team. He is the one in the Red/Yellow suit and a kinda Atomic symbol on his chest.

Yes, I saw that when Mr. ketigid was so kind as to linkk me to the current speculation thread about him. My thoughts on him that I didn't have a chance to type here are actually on that thread, even if they are tiny.

Sigh Yes, I think you might have a point there. Thora(My nickname for her, since I doubt they would use 'Gigantess' since DC has a copyright on that name…) would most likely come out with a cosmic expansion, but a man can dream, can't he? A man can dream…

Something I would still like to speculate about though is her powers. Obviously Size alteration has something to do with her abbilities, but maybe she has more tricks, but in the same vein of Body Ateration. I think the right deck mecanic could make her very interesting to play.

Hmm. Mainstay, huh? Well, from what I can make out of this…

I can see the connection with the chains that you've shown, but that seems to really be the only solid one. But if… Takes another look at the card Iron-Fist Strike Looking at the background of the card, I've been wondering if "mainstay" and IL are fighting in the Time Cataclysm? That could mean that he has the abbility to go about the time-stream like La C. But honestly that could just be how I interpret it, it could just be a visual effect of IL punching him in the gut. There is also the fact that IL doesn't only fight heroes but also villians. This guy could just be some poor sap that was in the wrong place at the wrong time…

I'd still like to see your original thoughts on this guy. Mind providing a link to the thread?

Yes, I heard the theory about this guy, and my third main theory was going to be about him. But I unfortunately don't have Infernal Relics as of yet, and I didn't feel comfortable speculating when I didn't even have card artwork to run off of…  I think it's quite possible that he's the as of yet unseen fifth member of the PWs though. If someone could post an image of AA's Silver Shadow card that this guy is on, I'd be forever greatful to you.

A friend of mine insists that Miss Information's Nemesis has something to do with computer programing because of the symbol.

Let me know what you think!

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/the-great-mainstay-detective-3453

Quickly reads. …Wow. Okay, forget what I said before. DEFINITLY more than just one connection here.

Nice work there, Mister Foote.

Hello Phantom, and welcome! :D

Personally I think Ambuscade could appear as a hero; largely because of Marsquake, but also because certain villains would make much better prey than Haka. I can see him as someone who fights hero or villain, depending on who looks tougher at the time, hence being both a hero and a villain. To be honest, I don't see this as likely.

Another thing is that Christopher mentioned at one point (a point I should track down and wiki...) that "five new heroes" is not entirely correct. One idea floated about this is a hero deck made up of more than one person, or specifically that La Capitan's nemesis could be four people; her icon seems to be four things, after all. The Ambuscade idea gets rid of the 'new' and the 'heroes', while another idea that I've seen gets rid of the 'new' only: namely, that Young Legacy is going to get her own deck.

Ah I remember Chris saying something like that too at some point.

The La Capitan Nemisis being multiple people is probably the correct guess in there. In my Mainstay speculation thread, I mentioned the possibility that he is a refuge of her crew. It would no surprise me if Mainstay is the leader of a small crew that was either directly a part of Capitans crew or possibly a smaller raiding party with a bone to pick. That would rather nicely explain her Nemisis Icon and why it is so fragmented.

I do not see Young Legacy getting her own deck, nor do I see them doing the "previously released villain turned hero" thing again. OmiX fit that troupe well enough, and EoW Bunker is an unreleased villain becoming a hero.

Well, this seems to cover all my wild speculations as well.

Looking back at my thread on future villains reminded me that F.I.L.T.E.R. is still a possible villian, so we'd need a hero against him, possibly mister red and gold. We also have a giant stone statue, pictured well on Visionary's Precognotion card, who we'll need a nemesis for, maybe the giant thorian since the statue shows someone similiar to a thorian?

The reason I mention some possible villains is that there has been at least some mechanical or thematic connection between the heroes and villains, if we can make good guesses as to new villians we might realize there has to be some heroes not even hinted at yet... or maybe I'm crazy, either way

Okay, let's break down La Capitan's Nemesis symbol.

Starting counter-clockwise, we begin with a blacksort of gaseous form. That doesn't ring any bells for me at this moment, but maybe it will for someone more observant than me.

Next is a bit of a(steel?) chain. Relatable to Foote's theory of 'Mainstay'.

Next, on the lower left portion is a burst of light. Again, I have no idea what it could represent right now...

And finally we have some sort of green rings, or a 'wave' of sorts. It reminds me a bit of the Visionary's symbol, but just a different color.

With our current line of thought and breaking down the Nemesis symbol, It could indeed represent four people in one deck.

I don't see undeniable proof that F.I.L.T.E.R. is evil as of yet. Yes they tried to capture Tempest and other such shady things, but if you think of S.H.I.E.L.D. from Marvel, they would probably do the same. They may just do what has to be done, even if the heroes don't like it. Tempest was an as of yet unknown entity that could have been hostile to the planet as far as they knew. And as the saying goes, "Better safe than sorry."

I don't know… They do have a prison that exists outside time. OUTSIDE TIME! That means every villian that will be captured is in there, as there will be a time when all of the villians will be captured. That's bordering on Time Lord Shenanigans. 

But on a a diffrent note, Have you noticed that the bearded guy on "Silver Shadow" and they bearded guy what got punched in Iron Fist Strike look very similar? They even have the same color mask on! Do you think they could be the same person. Like he has two forms; the magic wielding smart form, and the biker-chain-I-want-to-get-scrappy bruiser form? Just a thought…

Did you ever hear of the Big House from the recent Avengers cartoon? It's a prision designed by Hank Pym, a.k.a. Ant-Man, for S.H.I.E.L.D. that shrunk villiains down toALMOST MICROSCOPIC SIZE. And not to mention their other one, Prision 42(Is that right? I can't remember.), that was kept in a pocket universe. Holding villains outside of time sounds VERY S.H.I.E.L.D. like to me…

Hmm…Wait. You just hit onto something. 'Mainstay' may not be four people, but one persion with four different super-identities!

Think about it, as far as we can tell so far the chain-weilder 'Mainstay' is the Nemesis of La Capitan, and that symbol has four distinct things on it. Now look at the second side of LaC, 'Split Across Time'. She apparently has four very different forms. If we're going off the idea that 'Mainstay' was part of her crew or traveled like her, then he just might have four alternate forms as well!

Could someone please link a picture of 'Silver Shadow' so I can see it? I don't have Infernal Relics.

Here it is, the good ol' Silver Shadow!

Ah, finally, thank you!

I do admit, this guy and the dude on Iron-Fist Strike do have a few similarities...

My gods, that's interesting. So Red&Gold and Chains are the same guy... I'd say they could be a team with matching masks, but then I guess they'd all be on Silver Shadow. So, we still have green circles and smoke... Could the green circles be sound waves, perhaps, or radio waves?

They could still be apart of the same team, just not the Prime Wardens. As there could be a lot more super hero groups that we don't know of that could be made of various other members.

That's possible, yes; I was just thinking of the kind of team so inseperable that they'd share a hero deck. It wouldn't make sense to have a group that close-knit, yet only one of them is a Prime Warden.

I like the idea of them being one person, four identities, a truly form changing hero was mentioned as something the community felt was missing in that "missing mechanics" thread. My only question is have we seen a third version of this guy yet? That would cement it in my mind.

I don't think so, but as I said, I don't have Infernal Relics yet(But that's changing VERY soon. )

Well, the green waves remind me of the Visionary's icon. But I don't know if they'd want to do another psychic just yet, even if he's part of a team/one of four identities.

We don't have a hero that specializes in sonic damage yet, so that might be fun. The burst of light could be energy, and the black form could be infernal.

Just so I know I'm not doing it in the wrong place, is there a thread where I can speculate about deck mechanics for the people we're talking about, or do you guys not mind if we talk about it here?

You can probably do it here. Rules and Gameplay I think is mostly for established mechanics. This is probably a good section to speculate in since thoughts about mechanics are extensions of thoughts about possible personalities and powers of theorized future heroes.

Ah, wonderful then.

Switching our focus back to the red Thorathian girl, I've been thinking about how her deck could run. As far as we can tell, she can alter her body in at least one way(Her height, unless she's just naturally gigantic, which could be a possibility.). So it got me thinking of a deck wuch used cards that changed how the character did things, or had a character that was especially adaptable. Anyone else got an idea?

I think this is a bit too specific. I thought you meant general mechanics like, she could have cumulutative ongoings to show a constant change in size, or something to that effect.

I'd feel a bit uneasy speculating on specific cards, but I can see Mainstay having an innate power that fetches and plays a Form. Perhaps certain cards can only be played by certain forms, or have different effects on different forms (maybe a midpoint between these two would be a basic effect, and a bonus effect while in a certain form), or just the Form changes the damage type (melee, radiant, sonic, infernal is most likely).

Oh dear. Should I delete that post?

I only really gave those as examples of possible cards.

It all has to do with legal stuff. Greater than games is really wary about fans posting fan made stuff, since if anything mentioned by a fan shows up in a card, it could possibly lead to complicared legal stuff. It's best to keep our speculation as general as possible. It should be okay to talk about possible mechanics and effects that you would think are cool, but giving specfic cards with keywords and text is probably a bit much.

Edit: Bluehaired Meerkat's post is a good example.

I hope that >G is getting at least some legal advice from real-live lawyers on the IP issue- it is a concern, but not one that should leave them "wary." There are definite work-arounds and ways of avoiding trouble entirely. A good lawyer (or even a law school IP clinic, like my school has) can really ease that concern. And any solution that relies on "unspoken rules that we just don't go there" could get messy.

In the FAQ they specifically state that they don't want fans to post or send them ideas for new heroes outside of events such as the create a villain contest. Not that I disagree with you, but it's still a good idea to keep speculation generaized.

Especially if you're posting hypothetical cards for a character that already exists on a card, and thus may well be a hero in the works. That seems like it could be even worse than posting things like custom heroes.

Yes, the primary danger is that someone tries to claim that >G stole one of their ideas and uses a forum post to prove it. This actually does happen from time to time (recently a case was settled involving the design of the AT-AT from Empire Strikes Back) and can be very expensive even if it is unsuccessful. That's my primary point: this could be a larger concern that >G would want to address with a lawyer rather than just relying on essentially an honor system. Robust legal protections for >G would also give fans with no ill-intentions the freedom to play around more. Unless/until they feel more protected though, those of us who do want to respect their IP should just try to toe the line.

Alright, I edited it. Sorry, just got the chance to do it.

Oh, guess what? Finally got Infernal Relics. : )

Just got to get Unity and Ambuscade now. : P

You know they’re both available from the online store, right?

Or some FLGSs have them. Or they're available at the Cons that >G attends…

But yeah, I agree that you need to get Unity. Ambuscade can be fun, but Unity is gorram awesome!

I know, but I just really hate buying stuff online, especially since the one time I tried to buy them the page told me I had to pay through some google wallet thing I never heard of.

I've ordered twice from >G through Google Wallet. Had my reservations, but took the chance. No problems.

Nnn...I'm just worried about giving another computer program access to my bank account, especially if it's Google.

Anyway, to get on a different track, does any one know who the kid on Rhapsody of Vigor is?

Nope, that's an unsolved mystery.

Well, I've gone off of only card art before, so this shouldn't bee too much of a challenge to at least come up with a possible idea who this kid is.

First, just so I know, this isn't a real life person who got their likeness on a card, is it?

99% chance it is a real life person

Well, aren't most of the 'real people' cards on villain/environment cards?

possibly. Doesn't mean that they all must be that way though

Nope. Not all of them are in environment and villain decks.

I recall reading somewhere that they have all the characters planned out for the rest of the expansions. Which implies that the IP for the character concept and probably their deck mechanics is already protected.

So, I'm guessing our speculations will not cause any troubles.

Yes, they have lawyers. In fact, it's one of the points both Christopher and Paul have emphasized when giving interviews about how to be successful when starting a game company – lawyers are worth the cost.

Also, Paul has told me that he's going to check with the appropriate lawyer to find out whether or not their stance on IP in the forums can be relaxed.

My school's IP clinic is focused primarily on people trying to start new businesses (we have a whole practice based around craft breweries of all things) and that's just the message we want to get out, particularly in this brave new world of small business, crowd-sourcing creations. It's like buying insurance- it seems like a waste of money until it very much isn't.

I will not say for sure that there are ways they could relax their policy, but it's a conversation worth having.

I remember when this thread was for something else besides talking about lawyers, the one thing even more boring to talk about than the Dewey Decimal system…Yeah, those were good times…

((In other words, enough with the legal talk, please. I mean no disrespect, but c'mon guys, let's talk about something else.))

Oh my frog yes … return of the oracle  A redhead woman woman working in a watch tower I think Parser {} from memory is called a parser in pascale (the coding language which is a play on Orcale being a programming lanagauge)

I'm also pretty sure I didn't spell any of that correctly

Edit: Boy have I never been so wrong … {} is called an Epigram… which just sounds awesome … and epigrams are in C+ C++ and C#
Oracle is a database system written in C++

Mm… plot thickens

Hmm...A hero that works behind the scenes to stop sabotage. Someone so secretive that the villian, and possibly the heroes, has no idea that they exist. Using their mind and skill to outwit the villian who took every possibility into account...Except for Epigram.

That could be awesome if done well.

I'd still love to see Miss Information's nemesis be more like Aiden Pearce from the upcoming game Watch_Dogs. Think about it: Sentinels takes place a few years into the future of the 21st century, and technology is already advancing pretty quickly in this day and age. If the hero is a hacker, by the time Sentinels takes place, technology will have advanced even further, to the point that it's not unreasonable for someone to be able to use a moblie device for high-speed hacking.

When you think of a hacker in the near future, do you imagine him behind a desktop? I see a mobile device hacker to be more likely. Plus, that gives him an excuse to be on the battlefield rather than at a desk. He can still be supportive to the team like Argent Adept, who is also in the heat of battle.

In the end, which would you rather have (assuming that both types of hacker have the same capabilities): a guy sitting behind a computer away from the battlefield, or someone like this?

So long as it's not like the character from the recent Stan Lee comic who "had an app for that" and who could call up superpowers through his phone, that was just a bad cash in on a recent phenomenon that looked completely out of place

Now I know that they aren't heroes, but I've been wondering what could happen for the nemesis of either Unity or the Scholar. Unless I'm missing something,we have next to nothing on these two forces. Does anyone have any ideas or clues?

My guesses is that the Heroes of Vengeance will all have direct nemeses or connections with previous expansions, in keeping with the theme that this is expansion is all about the villains striking back.  I'm thinking that all of these heroes will have experienced suffering at the hands of a villain, or be reformed villains themselves. In addition, since this is being sold as a stand-alon game (as well as expansion to the base), I'll give my best guess as to the "roles" that they will fulfill.

Mainstay- With the F5 being plagued by Baron Blade and his team of like-minded miscreants, the world is goingto need a new hero team to take up the slack.  After all, Evil never rests and the other villains certainly aren't going to stop their malevolence.  Luckily, the Prime wardens can step up.  

Best guess as to role- Leader.  I'm thinking he's going to be all about a mixed bag of support and tanking. My guess is that he's less about taking the hits for everyone and more about being at the center of the action. Legacy is the king of defensive leadership and making everyone stronger- I'm thinking that Mainstay is going to be about making everyone more flexible...

Twitchy- while it is entirely possible that his powers are luck based, the cube on his chest could simply indicate that he works as a Bounty Hunter for FILTER and the block.  

Best guess as to Role- Villain lockdown.  I'm thinking that Twitchy is the go-to character for totally occupying a villain target.  He'll go after them one at a time, making sure that they can't do anything to anyone except him.  

Giganto-Thorathian- If Voss's own people kicked him out, they've obviously got one or two good-hearted (or heart equivalent) people among them.  Maybe she's on of the ones he experimented on, or maybe her heart (or heart equivalent) hungers to redeem her people in the eyes of a planet that has seen only their worst villain.

Role- I'm thinking pure tank.  some damage, but mostly buckets of HP and damage prevention.  Possibly enviro/ongoing manipulation- given her size, I'm thinking that she could do a lot to influence how the environment acts upon the heroes (think about how many environments would be a non-issue to a giant!)

The Hacktivist- Miss Information is all about controlling the flow of events from behind the scenes, so it seems like her nemesis would be someone actively trying to track her down.  Best guess is (as was stated several posts ago) a tech-savvy detective type and hacker, going out and about to track down information and influence events.

Role- Support.  I'm guessing that we're going to see a lot of equipment/device manipulation, deck building, and redirection.  I'm thinking that he'll be able to "upgrade" either his own equipment or other hero's stuff.

5th hero?  Possibly metalmouth or the android-looking guy on shock rounds.   Maybe a survivor of Spite's killing spree.  Maybe an Agent of FILTER.  Heck, maybe it will be a repentant Citizen Dusk, or the team of oddballs from Chrono-ranger's "the whole gang" bounty.

I'm thinking someone who is (mostly) a pure damage dealer, though in a different direction from Ra.

I'm going to guess that the dude on Heedless Lash is The Scholar's nemesis, because he's got a big glowy spherical mcguffin that's a nice complement to the philosopher's stone, plus if he's into taoist balance/minimal-action stuff that'd be an interesting complement to the Scholar's life philosophy.?

And for Unity's nemesis I guess (also based on no evidence whatsoever) that it's the living liquid metal thing from Hollowpoints. Technopath who turns machines into golems versus a machine that can effortlessly reshape its body! Seems legit.

Or, possibly, Con. I don't trust Con...

EDIT: Loving the speculation, Brainwaithe. I'm not so sure about Mainstay being a leader though; AA is the Prime Wardens' leader, so having Mainstay doing team buff stuff too would be a bit odd. I agree Mainstay is likely to be all about flexibility though, and I can see him helping his team in that way a little, just not a great deal.

When did we find out the AA was the leader fo the Prime Wardens?

As for Con... let me metagame, for a moment.

Each of the expansions has been about a central theme.  Rook city was the dark/gritty expansion.  Relics was about magic and the mystical side of things.  Shattered timelines was about the darkest futures, and how they could happen.

What is Vengeance going to be about?  While on the surface its about a villain team, and the moment for the villains to take front stage, I'm thinking that the root theme is change.

At a gameplay level it defines a new way of playing the game.  It is a standalone type of game, as opposed to the standard expansion.  Plotwise, I suspect we're going to see some major, major changes for the heroes.  This may well be when we see which Legacy survives.

In terms of the heroes, I think that they are going to be extensions of that theme.  We're going to see heroes who fit with the theme of change.  So- heroes who used to be villains, heroes who are radically different mechanically, or heroes who hint at entirely new sides/agendas in the sentinels conflict.

Con may well fit that description, but something tells me that we're going to see a very science/tech heavy expansion soon.  I'm guessing thats when we'll finally see Unity and AZ's individual nemeses (I'm counting the V5 as a group nemesis).  If Con is an AI, or (as some have suggested) a future AI fusion of Unity/Fixer, then the superscience time is when to let it step up and make a grand entrance. Not when we've got a HUGE mess of plotlines coming together.  Especially when we don't know/trust Con!  

All we know is that it's managed to exist for a very long time, and it has a vested interest in eliminating key targets in history.  to me, that sounds like the action of someone who is trying desperately to undo some key thing....but here's the reason I don't think Vengeance is the time for Con.  NONE of the bounties are for the key players of the V5- they are people who we haven't met yet, or are tangential to the plot (like Ambuscade).  

I like your train of thought and I can't help but agree with how you see the Theme of Vengance. 

Just one little nitt-picky thing. We DO know CON. We have already met CON, as per an unsurprisingly vauge clue from Christopher. It was that clue that sparked the popular speculation as to a possible connection to Unity. Fixer was thrown into the mix at one point because we see Golem Unity weaing his hat, though I personally still doubt whether he acctually plays a part in CONs larger story.

we may have suspicions of what Con IS, but we don't know it's agenda.  and if I'm remembering correctly, the hint was just that we've already met Con.  

Could be Unity, could be some secondary character who's been in the background. By that hint, it could be Thiago, the potential sidekick from Spite's deck, or Tachyon's wife, or an upgraded Raptor bot.  I'm not saying that it isn't Unity...but Christopher has a love of leading us in COMPLETELY the wrong direction with his hints (while being completely honest with them).

and if it Is Unity, here's why I don't necessarily trust Con as a Hero.

Thousands and thousands of years alone, except for monsters (and an ageless Maori warrior who used to be a friend... and now?).  Maybe somewhere in all that time you start to think that you could have done better.  Maybe you start to get a bit fuzzy on right and wrong.  you see a wounded man, and you don't think "I'll help him"...maybe you think "This would make a good tool". 

Remember- Chrono-Ranger's time-travel badge eventually goes Kaput.  Maybe that's Con's way of cleaning everything up.  Get a tool to do the job at hand, then put it away where it won't get in the way.  IF you need it again, you can always fetch it from the box.  

Con uses Chrono to do the job it can't do.  thats a tactic we've seen in Unity, in that she relies on her Bots, and in Mr. Fixer, in that he uses the appropriate tool to do what is needed.  But putting someone else in danger...thats a new element.  Maybe there are reasons why Con can't go back in time, maybe there are restrictions, maybe Con just views Chrono as someone who can be rebuilt/replaced.   

I suspect that part of the story will be told eventually.  But not, I think, yet.

Obviously Paul Revere is Con. He was in the beginning when Legacy started and gave Legacy his ring. We all assumed is just a normal ring, but it could be anything, a monitoring device, etc. If all the super-heroes and villains started around then, it would be a good place to start keeping track of them. Also, if he has any connection to Unity, who is to say the Bots aren't silver. Obviously, Paul Revere is Con. :)

Maybe whatever Golem Unity was before it became Golem Unity killed Unity (and maybe Mister Fixer), but before it was able to finish the job Unity technopathed part of her mind into it to turn it into Golem Unity.

Maybe Golem Unity eventually turns into Con (after whatever leads to her incapacitated side) and is now using Chrono Ranger to fix the past so it won't end up killing Unity (and maybe Mister Fixer).

I like your ideas, but I find myself disagreeing with your assements. I believe The guy on Heedless Lash is part of the ancient chinese wizard, chinese dragon, and ninja deck that I predict based on their prescence in Fixer's deck. Just based off how much more they appear in Fixer's deck than anywhere else, I think Fixer is their nemesis, though I had a thought. What if one of the changes Vengeance brings are villains with 2 nemesis' or a nemesis for the big bad and then seperate nemesis for certain high-ranking minions? Just a random leap of thought, but interesting I think

Also for Unity, again going off frequency in deck, I think her nemesis is the lava dude who also appears in Haka's deck and in Rook City. Thematically, Lava destroys everything it touches, especially metal, and but the guy seems like a thug villain, so the connection to Unity… Maybe her powers make her better able to fight him, since she doesn't have to get close? Maybe he's the first big bad she's tried to go after on her own? Maybe she accidentally created him? I got nothing, but metalmouth, while an awesome idea, seems like he's suited for bigger things.

After all we have a dimensional threat who's sending his "herald" and SOTM is not shy about obvious comparisons.

Chaosmancer: Going off of frequency in decks is a dangerous game though; the Matriarch doesn't appear at all in Tachyon's deck, for example. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Vengeance did come with nemesis minions, though - if the Baron's assembled a bunch of people with reasons to hate the heroes, it would make a lot of sense. As for Fixer getting a second nemesis... I don't really see it happening, to be honest. The one to one matching of nemeses seems to be what they want to do with the game, and the only exceptions have been massive, canonically - Iron Legacy and The Vengeful Five. I can see it happening again, but with a currently-unknown Oriental faction? Not likely, imho.

Braithwhite: AA built the Prime Wardens, and gameplay-wise fulfils the role of leader by playing support and boosting others. Hence I'm fairly certain he's in charge. I'm completely with you on the science-themed expansion - we've been told six, so with urban, magic, timey-wimey done and cosmic presumably at the end that leaves one slot, and I can't see anything but science that could fill it. (That's also quite possibly where we could see Miss Information's nemesis...) However, I think the theme of change for Vengeance is a bit too meta - the other themes have been more, well, thematic and comic-booky, and also obvious; the theme of Vengeance, one would assume, is vengeance.

Another reason why AA would have to be the leader is the Prime Warden's primary villain is Akash'Bhuta, which happens to be the nemesis of which hero?

I'm perfectly happy to be wrong about Mainstay, but I would like to know where this information on the Prime Wardens is coming from.  I've looked through this forum, as well as the SOTM wiki, and can't find anything that reveals that the AA is anything more than "affiliated" or that Akash'bhuta is their primary villain.

I think it is the implied correlation. The main nemesis to a group of heros is almost always strongly connected to the leader of the group. 

BaronBlade and Legacy (freedom 5)

Charles Xavier and Magneto

Doctor Doom and Reed Richards. 

I could go on, but I am more illustrating the implied connection that Ronway pointed out. Unless otherwise stated by Christopher, this would seem to be the intent. 

Yes, but where is the (crucial) piece of information that says "The Argent Adept created the Prime Wardens and is their leader".

Its entirely possible that I've missed that post/announcement- Christopher is quite fond of giving out little bits like that in odd places. 

I'll go dig about the forums now, because it has come up, but one thing that is visible is that in Prime Wardens #1, it is Akash'Bhuta being fought.

The more and more I think about it, the more I think 'Lucky' is an agent F.I.L.T.T.E.R.

It's funny how everyone has their own pet name for the guy. I tend to think of him as "Ace"

Well I don't like 'Twitchy', and no other name sticks/makes sense.

Ha. Whatever his name ends up being, I don't think I could ever call him anything other than "Twitchy" by now.

My name for him is Kismet's Nemesis. Something about it just seems like a perfect codename for him until his real name is revealed.

I'm deeply suspicious of FILTER.  I keep thinking that the reason Unity is in a plastic box on her incap side is because FILTER is studying her.  You know- for the greater good of the people who don't have powers.  Got to keep the metahumans in their place, the aliens locked away, and humanity on top.  

So, kind of a reverse Citizens of the Sun thing, only without overtly trying to conquer the world or whatever ;).

I really do think they're probably the S.H.I.E.L.D. of the Multiverse, which would make sense. I won't shoot down any other ideas for now, but with the information that we have to work with, that's how I'm going to envision them. And now I'm really curious what 'Lucky's' thematic powers are going to be, or if he's just some sort of elite agent(like Hawkeye or Black Widow).

And just because I'm thinking about it, I'd like an archer kind of character in SotM at some point. I know we have alot of decks that do some form of projectile for their main attack, but even I can think of a few mechanics that can make an archer deck different from any other already in the game.

Huh.

The only reason I can think of to imprison Unity away from technological things is if she is no longer in control of her power... and the reasoning behind that that springs instantly to mind would be if she was taken over by a parasite or intelligent (biological) virus, a fitting nemesis for a technopath, no?

I can see that evolving into CON in the long term.

They did not lock up Magneto because he lost control of his power. Quite to the contrary. It was because he is just too powerful. I think that is what the art is a reference to.

Unity's technopathy is, in my opinion, among the strongest powers of our known heros. We know very little of FILTER outside of their involvement with the Block. If they are some kind of metahuman police, it would make sense that Unity would be high on their threat list if they ever decided to move against the F5. 

I don't see why everyone wants to connect twitchy as a FILTER agent. I think if ANY hero turns out to have connections to FILTER it will be the nemesis of Miss Information. 

Let me connect a few dots.

Looking at his costume and chest symbol, 'Lucky' is mostlikely the nemesis of Kismet, which I think most of us can agree on.

We also know that Kismet has spent quite a lot of time in the Block(at least that's what we've been lead to believe), which is run by F.I.L.T.E.R.

Now, Kismet seems to be the kind of villian that has the possibility to escape the Block every so often thanks to her powers. Since she is such a wildcard of a villian, then they would send one of their best to try and recapture her. And who would make a better nemesis for her that someone trying to recapture her at every turn?

Also, his symbol looks just like the Block. But this is my weakest point, granted.

I think the cube on his chest is where the initial speculation of Twitchy working for FILTER came from. I thought so too at one point. But after realizing that cube  is a die and not a cell in the block, the whole thing kinda fell apart in my mind. 

He certainly still could be. I just have doubts about it. 

Here's another thought about "Twitchy":

Most of Kismet's jinxs have kind of appropriate heroes on the cards: like the one that hits the player with the least cards in play, and punishes them when they play a card, has a picture of tachyon, who generally doesn't have much in play but plays a lot of cards. The one that destroys equipment has a picture of absolute zero. Chronoranger's hits the hero with the most cards in play (he's got equipment AND ongoings galore, as well as good cards to fetch them) and reduces the damage he deals (something that hurts him quite a bit since he's all about several small strikes.)

Now, the jinx that has her nemesis on the artwork? Hits the player with the least hp, and punishes use of powers. So... maybe he has low hp and a lot of powers? Not super-informative, I know, but...

Hmm…Let's think about the relation of different nemesis' and how they work off of one another. If we can figure out how Kismet and 'Lucky' might work with one another, then take the info we learned off of the 'Weak Heart' jinx card, then we should be that much closer to understanding what he should be like…

Maybe he has some sort of risk/reward system, where he gains bonuses dependant on how low his HP is, or how few cards he has.  Or he can wager cards/HP to potentially gain an advantage.

Maybe instead of increaing/decreasing luck, he can transfer luck, but it would always be equal. He can significantly boost another hero at the cost of hurting or handicapping himself. This might also explain Shock Rounds.

Which would combine quite nicely with the additional power use; If his powers are about redistribution, then he might have quite a few ways to let himself use extras, at least equivalent to Legacy or Wraith. Another way his helping other could work would be if he was putting Blessings or somesuch on others, which would be a nice opposite (albeit an unintentional one, owing to the history of the two characters) to Kismet.

My gut is telling me the heroes will be new versions of the Freedom Five. As a stand alone expansion one of the best ways to introduce the world to new players would be to keep the focus on the main team. And on the potential issue of duplicate hero decks, the assumption is Vengeance will have a new version of Baron Blade so why not new versions of core heroes?

But really I think all this stems from a hope Young Legacy gets her own deck. :3

Yeah, I don't see us getting a new Freedom Five at all. A new Young Legacy, okay, but what on Earth could you do with all of these old heroes to make them play differently from their base game counterparts. The argument stands even with just Young Legacy, but she's the most thematically probable and it'd be a hell of a lot more likely (and more doable, and more justifiable to the fanbase) to do one than five.

EDIT: Although, if it's a stand-alone expansion, why not bring in a completely new hero team? I guess it puts Mainstay in an awkward position, our version of him being ideally suited for Vengeance but already having Prime Warden affiliations, but still...

I believe they have also confirmed that they will not be doing a Young Legacy deck. Maybe if someone convinced them with some money however, that might change their mind. 

There could be a brand new team, who knows? Just because Mainstay, if he is the same guy, is in Prime Wardens doesn't mean he can't be in another team at a different time. Tempest is part of both Prime Wardens and Freedom Six.

I totally hope it's not the Freedom Five. I want to see new heroes, not just different versions of the old ones - that's what promos are for, right?

Heroes as villains and villains as heroes? I'm good with that as long as we see some new characters as well.

My guess is the it will be the Freedom Five but with new decks and hero cards.

I kind of like the idea of new decks for old heroes, but I'm guessing it'll be new heroes.

Edit: I love the idea, and it gives us a chance for some clear character devekopment, but I can't see a way for it to happen without it being confusing/redundant.

I continue to not see the point of new decks for old heroes, and I'd choose having a new hero over revamping an old one every single time.

I'd truly feel cheated if a future expansion contained no/few new characters. As I said before though, the concept of villains as heroes and heroes as villlains is actually interesting and I'm fine with that happening.

Would you really want new FV decks instead of brand new characters? I'm willing to be that a lot of the non-completionist players out there would be much less likely to buy them.

Completely agree with Silverleaf's first and second points. Also I believe >G has mentioned before they have no plans to release a new deck for an existing hero, that the alternate character cards represent that concept, but I can't find it.

On your third point, Silverleaf, I think it would depend on both the person and the new deck, as if the deck played like a completely new hero, they might be willing to.

I agree with Silverleaf & Rabit above that I am not that interested in new decks for the original heroes.  The only situation in which I see this as a viable option is if after the storyline is completed and there are no new Sentinels Releases, if demand exists, I could see a possible alternate deck as a promotional release.

100% agree with Rabit.  Although I would prefer new heroes, if it is a complete rework where you feel as if you are playing a different hero than I could see that being released. 

My friends and I tend to make up our own storylines anyways and set the backdrop for our next encounter based on previous events that happened so we could treat the two characters as completely separate characters.  For instance in "our Sentinels world" Legacy and Iron Legacy are not the same person.  We've also added a couple of "new" nemesis icons based on previous events that have occurred such as The Wraith and Dawn now hating each other as The Wraith and Expatriette became very close before Expatriette became critically injured and The Wraith seeks revenge.  One of the beauties of Sentinels in my opinion is this ability to take a character and run with them.

Yeah, I think the promo character cards do a great job of changing the "feel" of the deck - plus I think it's really neat that you can get a different experience just by changing the base power. Dark Visionary's still mostly Visionary, for example, and a new Dark Visionary deck would have to contain a lot of similar cards to the original to feel like you're playing the same character. A lot of cards you already have. The only potential advantage I can see is if you're desperate to play both versions in the same game - I know that some people buy extra Legacy decks for that reason.

Thematically, how do you justify a character changing their abilities so completely as to warrant a new deck that plays differently?

And personally I'd still choose a new character that plays differently over a new Legacy that mechanically isn't, er, Legacy.

I found this and thought you all might appreciate it. 

Back when we were first told about vengeance in the Shattered Timelines Kickstarter, I asked in the comments section:

I love the Con speculation, but Con has to be more than one person.

Concordant Harmony Entity is an interesting name.  Agreement between complimentary things as an entity.  I think Con is the last ditch effort of a dying team, whose goal in creating Con is to outlast the situation they are in and figure out a solution.  Whether Con retains that original goal or not is in question.

I think Con is Tachyon and Unity, they work together to create an AI that can house them, as they face impending doom at the hands of Iron Legacy.

I honestly don't know that timeline, but that is my guess, and I don't expect Con to ever be a hero, although Haka sure is being patient, and he and Con seem to be all that's left.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if AA was somehow a part of Con, as he has a task that doesn't go away, even after humanity is gone Akash will still be there.

As for new heroes, do we know who Slim is from Rook City's Blighted Streets?  He used to get involved, maybe something prompts him to jump back in the game.  A Private Eye or newspaper reporter would fit the nickname, and make a great potential nemesis for MI, although Tony Taurus is a PI already.

I thought that "Slim" was a nickname for Mister Fixer...

Slim is Mr. Fixer. It says in his bio that people used to call him that. His first appearance also has him listed as Black Fist.

{Facepalm}  Can't believe I didn't put that together after reading both.  I must be getting old.

The idea that Argent Adept is involved with CON makes sense, in the sense that both "Concordant" and "Harmony" are musical terms.  Also, CON remains as the last bastion of order in the final wasteland.

I do not think Concordant is a "musical" term. I could be wrong, but I have a pretty extensive music theory bsckground and have never seen or heard that word. 

Concordant means "being in agreement; harmonious".

Right, but the harmonious is not being used in a musical sense. Only in that whatever you're comparing works well together. 

Hmm.  I stand corrected.  I don't have a music background, I'd just heard music described in concordand/discordant notes in a music review once and thought it sounded legit.  This seems like a good time to avoid the internet-flame-war trap of trying to argue with someone who has more expertise on the subject at hand.

Well... concordant can be seen as the adjective form of concord... which is defined by Webster's as: a simultaneous occurrence of two or more musical tones that produces an impression of agreeableness or resolution on a listener. 

So, I think seeing it as a musical term isn't really so far-fetched. 

Whether that links it to AA well I don't know... I gave up speculating on Con because the limited amount of info we have so far makes one theory as feasible as any other.

Another prod in the direction of the Adept is that all his songs seem to have pretty long-worded names - if he had a card called "Concordant Harmony" it would fit perfectly with the others in his deck ;).

I hope it's more than this, but with Con, Concordant Harmony basically has a very similar meaning to Unity, it very well could be that Swift Bot remakes herself in her creators image after she is dead, and ends up as Con, I could see Unity doing her best to make Swift bot a real Tachyon, giving it a high inteligence that allows it to operate as Unity and invent the stuff Con makes.  It would surprise me if TlT isn't involved somehow.

Yeah, despite the suggestions about the Adept, I'm still sticking with the Unity-and-Mr-Fixer theory ;).

If anything, "Concordant" alludes toward two (or more) seperate things working together more than to any connection to music specifically. You may not be far off.

Do we know which timeline con comes from?  Unity has a very different story between them.

Hey, it's Phantom here. It's been a while, hasn't it?

Well, >G has finally revealed the last of the new decks from Vengeance. After re-reading the contents of this thread and looking over some of the info for the new things incoming, I've come to a thought.

We've been right about a few things like how 'Twitchy'(now known as Setback) is featured as a hero, F.I.L.T.E.R. having a stronger presence and possibly a hero deck from them, one of the decks is actually a full hero team of which Mainstay is a key part, Miss Information's nemesis being able to uncover her schemes with a keen mind, and such missed hero roles like archers and shape-shifters are now included.

But we've been wrong about many things too like Setback having nothing to do with F.I.L.T.E.R. (my own theory), Mainstay not being an ex-crewmember of La Capitan's OR him being a shapeshifter with different parts, and Parse actually being the awaited archer.

But even with these mysteries solved, there are still others. Who is CON? What are the real intentions of F.I.L.T.E.R.? Will there be a Thorranian hero in the future, or are we just waiting for the next wave of an alien invasion? Is there a threat even bigger on the horizon that we don't even have clues for yet? Will we be able to save the Multiverse with the aid of the heroes we've come to know and love?

Lets keep thinking. Let's keep speculating. Let's keep our eyes open for any clues that might make the mists of the future that small fragment clearer. It's been awesome comparing and contrasting theories, and I don't want it to be over yet. ;)

As soon as >G gives us the name of the fifth expansion, you could edit the thread title....

I think the Dreamer's card (somethig Paralysis) is good confirmation for a Thorian hero, probably one with size changing powers, though she may just always be massive. Don't worry though, the second I have vengeance I will be wildly speculating again… Curse time and february being 1,896 hours away… not that I'm counting or anything

Ever notice that anything that is an anagram is FILTER related? KYFE? FIlTER?  

CON?

.r anagram acronym

Hahaha. Opps!

Hmmmm…

You know what, why wait? If I can change the thread title, then why wait for an announcement of a fifth expansion when I can change it now?

Welcome friends, to Phantom's House of Fun and Speculation!

The spot to be for all things theoretical and fun on SotM!

We could guess at the next expansion's title? Dire Machinations? Sinister Constructions? Advanced Technology?

Is there evidence for it having a mechanical theme or are you just Wild Mass Guessing?

Ronway is the Greatest Being in Existance?

Is that a question?

It certainly is questionable.

Educated Wild Mass Guessing; every expansion so far has been themed, and Mechanical and Cosmic seem like the biggest themes not covered. Cosmic would be the last expansion, so mechanical now. And after all, Bunker, AZ and Unity all still need nemeses...

I have been thinking that they would do a Mechanical expansion, but I'm not sure. Both Unity and Omni-X would've fit in very well with a theme like that, as well as Omnitron and Baron Blade. There's room for some more technologically based villains, but we already have a lot of heroes who are technologically based or themed.

Fully realizing that the "time travel" angle was already done with Shattered Timelines, what about a space-themed expansion?  That would fit the potential for a technological angle while also providing an opportunity to bring in that mysterious Thorathian hero.

I'd love to see the Sentinels heroes exploring the depths of a ruined starship, full of Brood-like aliens skittering through the air ducts!

I concur. The only space related stuff we've had so far is Voss, Tempest, and the Wagner Mars Base, but with Tempest and Voss, it was a case of aliens coming to Earth, and we haven't had any other alien stuff since then. There is also Cosmic Omnitron, but that has been still mostly an Earth thing.

I think a cosmic expansion will be the last expansion, what with the expected Galactus-level baddie everyone is expecting.

A tech level one would be fun, so hopefully we get it.

It was my guess at the next expansion.

That makes more sense. I didn’t that sentence was questionable.

Brother, have I ever told you the truth about Ronway, paper clips and the transmutation of the souls of turtles?

We are due some big hulking baddies that we don't have yet.  

For example Scum and Villainy has Char, Proletariat, Friction and Giant Lava Dude we don't have yet.

Mists of Time has an earth colored guy (bottom left)

We have the Swamp thing on call forth.

There are plenty of element-based characters looking at us in these cards.

I think we have a elemental themed expansion coming.

I also agree we have a cosmic one coming as well.

I am interested in the new playstyles that will be introduced.  We know about the new Vengeance mechanics, so I am wondering what else they will throw at us.

With Cosmitron we have out there an entity that tinkers with other things for its own purposes.  I would love to see a villain deck that you play with another villain, that ups the difficulty of a normal villain by having this entity empower them in different ways, there are so many ways it could be done really well, and it would be super cool to have a cosmic entity initially reveal itself that way, as well as new ways to play old villains.

If we ad an expansion that introduced 2 or 3 decks that did that in very different ways they would have more play life than single villain decks, and would bring a new twist to the villain decks we already have, and some wicked combinations that could be really crazy hard.

Aside from Iron Legacy, Bunker is presumably getting a nemesis in Fright Train and Absolute Zero in Proletariat.

I certainly hope Bunker and Absolute Zero get other nemeses besides those two. It seems unfair that Wraith, Tachyon, and Legacy (technically!) all have different nemeses outside of Vengeance. I like to think those two will have their day to shine against "single" nemeses.

True, but Tachyon and Wraith are also getting nemeses in Friction and Ermine, despite already having had them in the Matriarch and Spite.  So really, Bunker and AZ need other nemeses besides the Vengeful Five and Iron Legacy.  I also hope Unity will eventually have a non-IL nemesis.

EDIT - curse your tuxedo-ninja skills evandan!

I could see members of the Vengeful Five possibly having their own unique decks outside of Vengeance as mini expansions. That might be kind of neat.

I'd like to see Zero get a nemesis that actually relates to his story, rather than Baron Blade making a connection to get someone to join his team.

Reading over some of the old speculations, I find myself hoping for the ones that haven't yet been contradicted.  The following ideas have no real basis in SOTM as we know it, but I think they're cool ideas:

* An Oracle-type hacker/info specialist who supports the heroes without being a target.  (This would require special rules printed on the card which aren't a Power, and that would be unprecedented, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happens with The Sentinels anyway.

* Possibly the same concept, but a hero deck for a character who's just a powerless, uncostumed detective who teams up with the heroes to solve some of their less "Thokk!"-tastic adventures.  Nightmist sort of covers the detective angle, and Expatriette the powerless normal (or so we assume…) but I think it could still be done.

* Decks for CON and FILTER (these are both quite a stretch to me, but I'd be fine with finding out I'm wrong there!)

* A deck for the Fu Manchu wannabe who turns into a dragon and has ninjas.

* A Venom/Parasite type villain, possibly technological and infectious - the Hollow Points / Shock rounds guy/s?

* Also for the cosmic expansion, I'm guessing the guy Chrono-Ranger fights on a lot of his cards is an alien.  (Interestingly, I once dreamed that his name was "Yaz".  Having no record of prophetic visions, I will assume this part isn't likely.)  He was probably just some tough guy back in CR's day, but maybe in the modern age he becomes a big deal somehow.

* And of course, I'm eventually expecting an "evil planet-destroying corporation" villain to be The Naturalist's nemesis…perhaps it shows up in the cosmic expansion, because it's secretly backed by aliens that want to see the Earth depopulated, destroyed, or terraformed for their carbon-monoxide breathing selves?  We can also anticipate that KNYFE will get her own Nemesis, possibly being the FILTER deck.

Meanwhile, we're fairly sure these decks are coming:

* The fifth Prime Warden - I imagine him as having the powers of Firestorm but the narrative role of the Silver Surfer, and appearing in the cosmic expansion.

* Giant Thorathian Girl - Again, probably in the cosmic expansion.  (If that turns out to be #5 rather than #6, these two would be it for new heroes, which would be kinda sad, leaving us nothing more to speculate on.)

* Giant Earth-groping space villain.  (Perhaps he has ALL the nemesis icons?)

I also find myself hoping that Setback will have 24 HP because of the jinxes-on-proper-targets thing.  And maybe his innate Power will be "Activate two other Powers"? 

Young Legacy doesn't really need a new deck, but Greatest Legacy could certainly use one, since canonically he's not supposed to be invulnerable…this ought to rule out not only Fortitude but possibly Heroic Interception and Lead From The Front, since he'd be just as squishy as the people he's protecting (no Captain America shield, and while he certainly shouldn't be a coward, neither should he recklessly endanger himself and risk depriving America of its living symbol, or delivering The Enemy a propaganda victory).  An entirely distinct deck for a character with such a fundamental difference from our version of Legacy seems reasonable.

About Unity being Magneto-prisoned…on La Capitan's Walk the Plank, we see Unity as the victim.  I'm imagining that perhaps Cappy shot her and she fell off the plank into the Sea of Time, but that she survived the trip and wound up lost somewhere, until she was picked up by FILTER and imprisoned in the Block, later to be rescued by Our Heroes.  (Also, with the parallel to CON, has it ever been really explained where Devra came up with Unity for her codename?  I remember that name being one of the first things that grabbed my curiosity when I saw the SOTM box, and it still remains unclear to me exactly why she calls herself that…it sort of vaguely fits with her powers, but it seems like it should go deeper than that.)

Also I never caught before that Mr. Fixer's youthful version had "Black" in his hero codename, for "obvious reasons".  (See also Black Panther, Black Lightning, Black Vulcan…and, conversely, Spinnerette's Tiger, who is thoroughly sick of people calling him Black Tiger.)

Agreed.  They're a pretty weak correspondence…they have virtually opposite personalities, but that's not much reason to declare mortal enmity.  It kinda smacks of forcedness, much like the line in Fright Train's bio where it says he and Vance "knew they'd never be friends" upon first meeting.
 

I don't mind that line, personally. What really bothers me is the bit where Vance saves Graves' life, and then the two reconcile... and then become nemeses, apparently.

The bio said that they had a reconciliation of sorts, meaning that there was still some bad blood between them. I imagine Tyler would feel very betrayed seeing Graves as Fright Train, since it was partly Tyler's testimony that got Graves an honorable discharge. Likewise, I imagine Graves being jealous that while he was unable to find work, Tyler went on to become a nationally known and supported superhero. Fright Train does become a hero in the Iron Legacy timeline, and so it is possible that he gets help and goes back to the straight and narrow in the future.

There's a few heroes and villians who feel like nemesis status does not quite fit. The first one that comes to mind is obviously Tachyon and the Matriarch. And I feel even moreso about the deck connection, their mechanics and how they play off one another. Bot for Absolute Zero and Proletariat I'm holding my opinion until I see how they play off of one another. Yes the lore connection sounds weak, but maybe there's more to the story that we're just unable to see yet...

The vengeance team is assembled to take down the Freedom 5, so whether the opposing characters have backstory or not, it is clear Baron Blade picked them to balance the threat of Legacy's team.  If he can neutralize Legacy's team, he can take Legacy down himself, which is his goal.  It doesn't matter if Proletariat and Absolute Zero dislike each other, Proletariat is coming for him.

Matriarch and Tachyon make sense, as Lillian is lashing out at the person everyone thinks she should be like.  It's a pretty common psychological reaction, just with superpowers involved.

I agree that the Fright Train/Bunker thing is okay. I feel it's more like Graves blaming Tyler for everything that's gone wrong. Misplaced aggression yes, but look at the type of persona he took on. It's in the same "baliwick" (spelling?) as Bunker, but inferior. That can also drive a man towards unwarranted hatred, the best you can do is inferior to what he was "given" (after all the Bunker suit was not designed by Vance, the government gave it to him)

Crazy thought from reading Envisioner's list. What if The Naturalist shares an icon with Argent Adept? I know there is no precendent for it, but look at the bio. Akash'Bhuta turns his life upside down by turning him into a gazelle. Then this irratating guy with red hair acts all "mysterious stranger" and puts him through two more transformations before finally curing him. He has plenty of reason to hate both of them, and dealing nemesis damage to AA wouldn't be out of character. Of course, it could get a little wierd, but I do wonder...

Yes I can see what Blade is doing, but every other member of the V5 actually has history with their coresponding target.

Blade to Legacy, Fright Train to Bunker, and so on. I'm just thinking Proletariat maybe could of had a bit more background to hate AZ. Like maybe they've fought before and AZ took him down unexpectictedly easy or something, or he could have had his own realization to their similar situation and come to hate him on his own.

Keep in mind Proletariat is more than likely a hardcore Socialist. You know how much McCarthy hated Communists? The feelings were mutual the other way around toward Capitalists. 

AZ, to Proletariat, probably represents everything he despises. AZ afterall is little more than a government lapdog for the US backed Freedom 5, and a leashed one at that! Damn Capitalists!

There is no way Proletariat wishes that sort of confinment for himself. He probably sees Baron Blade as a perfect representation of a Socialist system (Baron [ie. the state] owns everything but kinda allows his minions/friends/followers access for the ongoing cost of their loyalty), and sees AZ as the antithesis of his very ideals.

Their connection may not be a physical one. They do not share the same backstory together like Vance/Graves or Legacy/Blade, but the idealogical hatred on Proletariat's side I see as very tangable. 

Also remember AZ is doing this for money. The entire reason he is a hero is to pay off the suit. He embodies capatalism in that kind of dark way, he saves people because he is paid to do so, otherwise he wouldn't bother... Dang, I kinda hate the guy when I put it like that

Oh, do you? Eeeeexcellent...

New Speculation, A future expansion contains a conjurer villain.

He became a villain because he once joined the F5, but Ryan Frost kept bugging him to read Atlas Shrugged and talking about how the pursuit of profit is the most noble right of man, and the mage flipped out, harnessed the powers of chaos and vowed to destroy the Freedom 5.

Also have to argue with Foote a bit (shock!)

McCarthyism isn't at all representative of the Communist view of Capitalism.  McCarthy was convinced that anyone with Communist feelings or ties were an active enemy of Capitalist America.

The Communist view of Capitalism is that the Capitalist leaders run the government and opress the people, the average person who believes in Capitalism is a victim, they may be deluded or weak, but they are not a hardened criminal that must undermine the socialist paradise.

I accept that your error was most likely one of generalization, but I still have to argue such things.  It's in my contract.

Proletariat would likely view Ryan Frost as a victim of a capitalist society which expected him to pay them for something they did to him.  (the pike industrial complex being a capitalist operation, and the government he has to pay back for saving his life is the puppet of capitalism)

When Ryan would fight him Proletariat would probably view him as a lapdog of that system, too dumb to bite the hand that opresses him.

Man I can't wait for Proletariat to come out, Marxist storylines are fun.

I had this exact thought myself (I forget where I expressed it first, probably on a now-locked thread about the Vengeance heroes, which I am probably best off not bringing people back to).  I figure he probably has his own nemesis, some representation of the planet-destroying corporation he used to own, but that he might have AA's nemesis icon in addition to his own.  I even think I had another idea of a double-nemesis hero, probably Setback and Baron Blade, or maybe I was thinking a second existing hero might also fit as Natch's nemesis's nemesis (perhaps Wraith, because the company would be a business rival of Montgomery Industries).  Thusly, both Natch and his nemesis would have an existing hero's nemesis icon, in addition to sharing one, and things would get extremely strange when Natch and the two heroes involved were fighting his nemesis.  (Of course, Wraith is a lousy choice in that she already has more nemeses than anybody, and I'd much rather see everyone be balanced.  It'd be sort of funny for Wraith to have more enemies than anyone else, given how iconic Batman's rogues' gallery is compared to other superheroes, but it'd still annoy me on a certain level.)

Thanks for the added context Skippy. 

But I agree, Proletariet is the one I'm looking forward to the most. He just has such a cool theme for his powerset. 

You ever notice that "can make a large number of copies of himself" is one of those powers that's pretty much exclusive to villains?  It just seems to be one of those abilities that the audience doesn't believe you can possess and not be evil (right up there with Mind Control, where Charles Xavier is almost the only non-villainous example, and even he's generally portrayed as a bit of a Well-Intentioned Extremist).  A few heroes have multi-appearance powers, but always with a low cap on the number of bodies they can generate - DC's Triplicate Girl has three bodies, and Harem from the webcomic Grrl Power has 5, but I can't think of a hero who gets more than that.  Which is weird because, unlike with Mind Control, it's not really a terribly sinister idea (apart from the mild Stepford-Wives subtext you can get from talking to more than one of them).  I fully expect there to be some sort of dialogue between Legacy and Proletariat about the power of "working together" (a Marxist vs. a team-captain type; it writes itself), and it's entirely valid to think that a multi-body guy could play some of Legacy's "strength of many" ideas completely straight.

Jaime Madrox (Multiple Man) would speak otherwise.  He's been on both sides of the villain/hero spectrum.

True, but he first premiered as a villain IIRC, and in most cases I tend to think that such status is not easily revoked, just because the character claims to have cleaned up their act.  Unless the time as a villain was extremely short (eg Hawkeye), I tend to figure they tend to still qualify even if they put on a white hat every once in a while - I still regard The Riddler as a villain, for instance, even though he ostensibly went legit for a long time.  Whether heroes that turn villain for a while follow the same pattern is debatable, but either way, I tend to think a character is always one or the other, or else confirmedly neither, but never really qualifying as both.

Triplicate Girl of the Legion of Super-Heroes would also care to argue.

I expect there's a list of superheroes with that power… haha, this is the internet of course there is, there's a whole wiki on superpowers!

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Superpower_Wiki

Replication power list

Has she recently gained the power to make more than three of herself?  If not then please read moar.  I said heroes are seldom if ever able to make large numbers of duplicates.  We see a dozen or more of Proletariat, and being a one-man army is also typical of Multiple Man, a couple of Heroes characters (one from Season 5 and one from the extended universe), Agent Smith, and probably several others I'm forgetting.  The only heroic (mostly) character I can think of who does this is the title character of Naruto…for heroes, there seems to be a limit of roughly a half-dozen selves, and any character beyond that threshold is presumed to also be beyond the moral event horizon.  (I now want to make a Seven Samurai character…)

Technically Proletariat DOES have a limit to his clone count as well, though it does have a higher cap than most heroes.

Envisioner,

Actually, yes, she has. She's also reverted back to the Duplicate Damsel name.

Also, Jamie Madrox was a villain (well, antagonist he didn't actually do anything villainous apart from fight the heroes and if that's your criteria the entire marvel universe is a villain) for 1 single solitary issue of Fantastic Four and a hero since then. I think we can safely say he's a hero.

I just took another look at Madrox's wikipedia page.  Yeah, despite his portrayal in the 3rd X-Men movie, he's been a hero for easily 90%+ of his featured issues...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Madrox

Maybe draining the conversation by getting back to speculation, GtG has already mentioned that additional mini-expansions are likely: https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/more-sotm-mini-expansions-3636.  This leads me to believe that they have a couple planned either in between Vengeance and #5, or between #5 & #6.  I also think that even though GTG has the whole storyline planned out that if a demand still exists for new decks after they conclude the SOTM storyline that GTG will continue to release new "mini-expansions" that they could backwrite (is that a word?) into the story.  It would seemingly make sense from a business standpoint if the demand is there and mechanics are still fresh and be great for us Sentinels fans.

I personally am not really in favor of a huge Galactus-type villain unless it's a new incarnation of Baron Blade or another existing villain.  I am not a fan of having an "ultimate" villain introduced so late in the story.  Personally, The Chairman and Iron Legacy are difficult enough and it sounds like the Vengeance Five will be super difficult so I'm not too keen on the additional challenge.  Just my thoughts though.

Are you spying on me? I said the "print mini expansions at regular intervals" just an hour before you posted.

I came to the conclusion that it was not business viable, printing single decks and releasing them at the price points they currently do would probablly not cover costs.

No actually, somehow I totally missed the post and still can't find the topic that it's in…

You could definitely be correct on the business viable with the current price points, I just took a blind guess.  However, if the demand exists, they could possibly raise the price point.  I know I would be interested if GtG says they are truly different.  They've earned my trust in that regard.

No, I literally said it, with vocal cords and everything.

I stand corrected on Madrox.  I really thought he was classically a villain...maybe I just happened to read only 10% of the stories he's been in.  (Not being sarcastic; my reading of comics is pretty catch-as-can, it's entirely possible I can have an absurdly small sample size for certain characters.)

I am very in favor of the ultra-villain for the final expansion, without a forced connection to Baron Blade (I think we see more than enough of him already).  Not least because I just walked all over Omnitron for the fourth time, the second even on Advanced.  (All four games have had either Visionary or Nightmist, but this time I intentionally didn't play Mistbind, and he still didn't manage to get any heroes to 15 HP or below.)  We know there's a bigger bad than Blade somewhere out there, the being that's ultimately responsible for the time rifts and Cosmic Omnitron, probably a very meta Beyonder type that's a stand-in for the comics audience, creating conflict simply so he can watch the result.  I am just fine with this, as long as it's done in a non-stupid way, and >G has amply proven their chops in this regard.

Link's broke. At least when I tried it…

It's working for me.  In case you can't sort your issues, here's a copypasta.

SotM mini-expansion has so far been funded through Kickstarter together with the standard expansions.

I'm really looking forward to Vengeance with 5 heroes, 5 villains, 2 environments. But what I really want is Vengeance *and* 1 more mini-expansion hero, 1 more mini-expansion villain, 1 more mini-expansion environment, and perhaps 2 more promo character cards!

Now, with no more Kickstarter campaigns (and thus no more stretch rewards) for SotM and Vengeance to be on pre-order on the website's online store, are there still going to be new mini-expansions?

Speculation? I got some old speculation that I could necro up...lets see here...

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-the-board-game-to-be-available-for-demo-at-gencon-4011

Sentinels Tactics was announced around GenCon. It was breifly being refered to as Sentinels: The Board Game before Christopher released that nice picture and blurb on the news portion of the site.

A few days prior to that, a very curious picture popped up on a Kickstarter page that was running at the time... 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/moviemaker/adventures-on-the-tabletop-a-board-game-design-doc

Minis? Board? Must be Tactics right?

https://twitter.com/GTGamesLLC/status/365978273563410433

Nope. Turns out, that picture is something else all together.

Part of the final mega expansion? A 2nd board game property based off the Sentinels IP? Just a few crazy guys goofing around?

You decide.

I'm getting a 404 with that link. Can you check it?

Perfect time for the "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" picture.

Back onto mini expansions, we know that more are coming and that to save costs they are printed at the same time as games are being run. So I am going to speculate that we either have to wait until the next boxed expansion for another mini, OR, that there is at least one being printed in February that is currently under the radar (and, apparently, hilarious)

Actually -- is there a single thread where people have archived what's known about future plans for the game? For example, I've heard it said that there are two expansions planned after Vengeance, one of which will be a big box.

If not, I think it would be an excellent sticky thread to put someplace.

That picture looks similar to an Arkham Horror board with Sentinels minis. Maybe another collaboration like when Richard Launius worked on Infernal Relics?

It's very difficult to effectively combine the Lovecraft Mythos and superheroes, because they have exactly opposite themes.  Superheroes are about empowerment; the Mythos is about helplessness.  Superman can defeat any challenge (perhaps not at first, but eventually it's inevitable), but nothing can ever hope to more than briefly defeat Cthulhu.  Both rely heavily on authorial fiat, but with diametrically different objectives.  That they make such an excellent duality is perhaps much of why I'm attracted to both - I see superheroes as an exemplification of everything that's good about life, and Cthulhu as a starkly magnified projection of all the horror our world contains.

Just because its an Arkham Horror appearing board, that doesn’t mean it’s going to have any sort of Cthulhian or Lovecraftian themes. It just means that the board has finite areas of a given city with linking pathways in between.

For that matter, the board in question is very much not an AH board. It’s the wrong color, for starters…

I’d also disagree that superheroes and the Mythos are difficult to combine. One of my favorite all-time Batman stories is Mike Mignola’s “the Doom That Came to Gotham”–an elseworlds story linking the Lovecraft and Batman mythoi. Dwayne McDuffie also famously scribed a spectacular two part episode of Justice League called “The Terror Beyond”, in which the JL, Dr. Fate, Aquaman and Solomon Grundy fight Ixthultu, a Thanagarian Great Old One.

I said it looked similar, didn't say it was an AH board. Richard Launius could still have helped them come up with that board design though, it does show both Christopher and him playing it.

I'm just wishing that whatever they release in the future, I'm able to afford it and that they hold off on it for a bit. Had to pool money for a while just to make sure I had enough for the last pre order thing...

I'm not 100% positve, but I think it was mentioned that they plan on releasing the next expansion after Vengeance somewhere between August and October, while the expansion will be released a year after that.

Well I said it was difficult, not impossible, and Batman is something of an exception to the rules of superheroes in general, which is one of the reasons he's achieved far and away the best market penetration outside of comic book fandom…Joe Average on the street can sort of figure out that Batman is a badass who drives a sweet tricked-out car and beats up everyone, but comprehending Superman as anything other than a childish power-fantasy with visible underpants is a much harder sell.  When I say that superheroes clash with the mythos, Superman is an example of what I mean by "superheroes" in general, whereas Batman is not - he can be made to fit within the superhero genre, but he doesn't exemplify it.  (Remember, he premiered in Detective Comics; ultimately he has as much in common with Sherlock Holmes as with his Justice League teammates.)

Dwayne McDuffie also famously scribed a spectacular two part episode of Justice League called "The Terror Beyond", in which the JL, Dr. Fate, Aquaman and Solomon Grundy fight Ixthultu, a Thanagarian Great Old One.

I've seen part of that; it was thoroughly ridiculous.  Perhaps I missed some important context, but ultimately the fact that the "grundy smash" moment wasn't completely futile in the face of the creature's ancient and incomprehensible power means that it wasn't really a lovecraft story.  Writers who have humanity actually making any progress at defeating the Mythos, more than momentarily and even then at terrible cost, are writers who entirely miss the point, and should have left well enough alone (Brian Lumley, I'm glaring at you).

[/quote]

And I missed it entirely due to a spasm in my cash flow.  I could easily afford it today, but not on the day it happened.  I don't care whether the next thing becomes available early or late, as long as it doesn't come at the exact wrong time.

I can say that Christopher confirmed to me that there will be more mini-expansions. I don't know how many or when, but they will happen.

I fail to see why Batman is an exception.  There are just as many heroes who have as much exposure as Batman, for whom the mythos is just as accessible.  Just a few years ago, Marvel did a massive crossover with their cosmic heroes and the mythos in a storyline called The Thanos Imperative.  Doctor Strange regularly faces off against occult horrors like Shuma-Gorath (a near full rip-off of Shub-Niggurath), to say nothing of characters that walk the line like John Constantine, Ghost Rider, and Man-Thing.  I think your definition of "superheroes" is overly narrow.  Just because it's not within Superman's specific purview–and it has been, at times–doesn't mean that the Mythos can't work within the context of a superheroic universe.

And, yes–regarding "The Terror Beyond"–you missed a fair amount of context if you didn't watch the whole episode.  The characters themselves were chosen to resemble a pastiche of Marvel's The Defenders (which McDuffie himself worked on for a time), and much of the episode's conflict revolves around the nature of Solomon Grundy:  particularly as to whether Grundy has a soul or is capable of choosing to die.  Hawkgirl, in the face of this, struggles with her peoples' decision to reject Ixthultu as a deity, wondering if anyone really has any degree of choice at all–certainly a question that arises in the face of Lovecraft's work.  If you rejected this two-parter based on the "silliness" of the concept, you missed out–it's one of the better two-parters in the series.

McDuffy wrote quite a few awesome two parters for that show. I think I understand what Envisioner is trying to say. At the end of that episode of Justice League Grundy dies, spoiler, but for the most part the characters win without a lot of negative consequence. They are all still sane and able to fight another day.

It may not be a "true Lovecraftian" tale, but the episode mentioned above is still a good story. You can use characters from the Lovecraft mythos and plug them into the superhero setting and still get a good and interesting tale out of it. The South Park episode with Cthulhu was one of their best. Was it true Lovecraft horror? No, but it was still good and entertaining.

I wouldn't say that Lovecraft monsters don't work in a superhero setting, they do, it's just that instead of a psychological horror tale, you now have an action adventure story with gothic elements, and if you don't like it, that's fine.

Agreed--but if the point is that "these two things are diametric opposites and shouldn't mesh", then that's been pretty thoroughly disproven.

It's not just that I "don't like it", it's that it's the exact opposite of the entire reason for the Mythos to exist, and thus is an utterly wrong and improper use of the Mythos.  It's Villain Decay at its worst - you take someone who's supposed to be Only Ye Liveliest Awfulness, and you turn him into a pathetic joke that Captain Awesome knocks out with one punch (or, for that matter, any number of punches).  It's far, far worse to mistreat a character in such a fashion than to simply let them fade away into obscurity.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with that statment. Ixthultu was not a joke in that episode. It was a long hard fought battle that claimed the life of one of the most indestructible characters in the series. It isn't villain decay, it's more of a protagonist advancement. The heroes in a superhero setting do actually have a means of fighting back. The character wasn't mistreated. He was a deadly horrific god like being like he originally was. He just happened to be fighting people who actually had powers and a means of fighting back. Ixulthultu was an appropriate villain for that episode, and the use of him advanced two characters who before didn't have a whole lot of development in a significant way. It's also established in the DC universe with characters like Thanos that there are old gods who are powerful and not to be messed with, and thematically the Lovecraftian Gods fit in perfectly with that. It's not the gods that are less powerful, it's your protagonists who are more powerful.

The argument your giving is completely personal and aesthetic, and there's nothing wrong with that, but that episode of Justice League is a good story. You can't say that mixing the two mythos don't work when the story produced by it is actually entertaining and fun to watch.

That's like saying you can't make a good comedy with zombies because the existence of zombies is diametrically opposite to the tone of a comedy, and putting them in a comedy is a huge mistreatment of them. Both Fido and Shawn of the Dead are fantastic movies. The zombies are the same as they've always been in both of those movies, but the protagonists treat them differently. It's a different kind of story than what those characters are normally in, but simply changing genres does not invalidate or ruin a character. It just shows them in a different light.

aaaand let's get back to the speculation shall we? The other debate is fascinating, but at this point probably belongs in it's own thread away from this one.

From random snippets of conversation the inference seems to be that the Arkham-resembling Senitnels game is designed by Richard Launius rather than by Christopher, so it doesn't necessarily follow that the intention is for it to run into print. Just looking at all the stuff around the table it definitely looks like one of Richard's games!

I'm trying to get an idea of what may be coming down the pipeline for SotM proper. Gossip suggests that there will be one small and one large expansion? If that follows then one could safely assume that Shattered Timelines will end up in a combined box along with the next small box expansion (a la Rook City/Infernal Relics). As >G have said that they prefer to have all their boxes the same size going forward, does this mean that the eventual boxed set of mini expansions and promos will have a similar amount of printed matter to the other big boxes? i.e. the same as two small box expansions? If so, could we look forward to as many as six new villains, two new environments, and two new heroes (or some other combination)?

Respectfully, I wish to continue the debate, but I don't think it requires enough continuation to deserve a thread of its own.  This thread is pretty miscellaneous already, I don't think I'm doing any harm by perpetuating its side-topics for a couple more posts.

Except that the point of the Lovecraftiverse is that no amount of power is ever enough.  Indeed, pretty much Lovecraft's entire concept was that the more science learns about the world, the more hopeless humanity's place in the world becomes - which is at best questionably true for other reasons, but the whole reason he invented Cthulhu was to personify his feelings on the topic, and so Cthulhu represents the ultimate "shut up you're wrong" to any arguments against the original premise he's connected to, which was in large part that there are some fights you can't possibly win, riddles you can't solve and would be happier not trying to.  Superman, in particular (being the original and archetypal superhero, and the invention of a couple of Jewish kids who needed a symbol of hopefulness to escape the troubles of their lives), is likewise a "shut up you're wrong" in favor of a different premise - he brings godlike, unstoppable power to the cause of Truth, Justice and the American Way, while Cthulhu brings ultimate, inescapable horror to the cause of Humanity is Doomed And Nothing Can Save Us.  If you disagree with either of those premises, that's perfectly fine, it just means you really shouldn't use the character who exists only to prove them right (or other very similar characters, and there's no way Ixthulhu's name is a coincidence…if you want a horrible-but-ultimately-beatable alien god-thing, you shouldn't try to conflate him with an unbeatable one).

You can't say that mixing the two mythos don't work when the story produced by it is actually entertaining and fun to watch.

I can and do say exactly that (with the understanding that I am speaking from partial ignorance, and might change my mind upon actually watching the whole thing).  Sometimes, the point of a story is not just to be entertaining and fun to watch (indeed, many of the greatest and most beloved stories are utterly gut-wrenching tragedies and rage-inducers…Romeo & Juliet and A Game of Thrones spring to mind offhand).  Sometimes, it exists to deliver an Aesop, and anything which breaks the Aesop can utterly destroy the raison d'etre of the story…or, in this case, a story element which was used in a story where it didn't belong.

That's like saying you can't make a good comedy with zombies because the existence of zombies is diametrically opposite to the tone of a comedy, and putting them in a comedy is a huge mistreatment of them. Both Fido and Shawn of the Dead are fantastic movies. The zombies are the same as they've always been in both of those movies, but the protagonists treat them differently. It's a different kind of story than what those characters are normally in, but simply changing genres does not invalidate or ruin a character. It just shows them in a different light.

Sometimes, showing something in a different light exposes hideous flaws which scar all perceptions of its worth altogether.  This is the entire reason that fashion photos are airbrushed…one unflattering image becomes a blight upon the career of someone who was once valued for their apparent flawlessness.  If you turn Cthulhu into a laughingstock, then people who encounter him first as a laughingstock will never appreciate what he should be.  If someone wrote a Superman story in which he chain-smoked and beat his wife, DC Comics would sue the pants off that person, because they aren't just using DC's "intellectual property" without permission, but horribly misusing it, in a way that irreparably damages their brand…people would see that story and think that was the "real" Superman.  Unfortunately, nobody owns Cthulhu, and thus nobody can stop writers from abusing Cthulhu in exactly such a fashion.  (I think IP law is an imperfect solution at best for preventing such mis-representations of characters, but it's the one we have at the moment.)

In conclusion, if Cthulhu (or his thinly-disguised pastiche) is to appear in a superhero story at all, I want him to be treated with the gravity he deserves.  Consider the way X-Men comics handled the Legacy Virus…it was a metaphor for AIDS, and because AIDS hadn't been cured, the writers weren't allowed to cure it, but had to write about how the heroes handled the fact that they were victims of something they couldn't win against.  That's what you use Cthulhu for - to show how your characters deal with loss, futility, and ultimate doom.  Whether superheroes ever should accept the inevitability of their defeat, when doing exactly the opposite is pretty much their raison d'etre, is another question (and I don't think it's a coincidence that Marvel, not DC, did the Legacy Virus).  But that brings me right back to my "Cthulhu should probably not be in superheroes" premise.

I can agree that Cthulhu specifically should probably not appear in a superhero story, but that's because the character is incredibly iconic and one of the only Lovecraft characters well known in the main stream.

Again, I'll point out that in the particular episode of Justice League mentioned, a named character does die. He comes back later as a mindless zombie and gets killed again, but he still dies which is pretty big for a children's cartoon. The use of him also brings up Hawkgirl's own theological viewpoint and says a little more about her and her people and helps explain why she is such a headstrong character.

Also no one makes fun of Cthulhu more than fans of Cthulhu. The people who made the Cthulhu for president meme and the Cults Across America Boardgame made a comical interpretation of the lore partly because they were big fans of it. I don't think showing Lovecraft monsters being defeated by superheroes will diminish people's respect for those characters if the fights are handled in a way that is epic and huge. I can respect that you prefer these characters to stay within the genre of psychological horror, but I disagree that putting them in a superhero setting automatically ruins them.

I also try to stay away from universal statements like x can never be y because you never know what changes the future will bring. It wasn't that long ago that the majority of people thought that you couldn't tell deep, mature stories in a superhero setting, but works such as Watchmen and Kickass have disproven that.

As for Mezike, I would be a little disappointed if the last expansion isn't a mega or special expansion of some kind. I really hope the SOTM metaplot goes out with a bang.

Well okay, if you're thinking of Justice League as a children's work, then we're definitely not on the same wavelength.  Perhaps by Saturday-morning-cartoon standards it's fairly deep; I'm sitting here comparing every Superman or Batman story to, say, "Kingdom Come", "Birthright", or "The Dark Knight Returns".

Also no one makes fun of Cthulhu more than fans of Cthulhu. The people who made the Cthulhu for president meme and the Cults Across America Boardgame made a comical interpretation of the lore partly because they were big fans of it.

Comical, perhaps, but still very cognizant of Cthulhu's "automatically wins in any remotely straight-up fight" status.  The humor in those works, as far as I see, is more at our expense than Cthulhu's.  I don't think HPL was entirely humorless; he'd probably agree with the meme in question, out of a sense that C4P is exactly what we deserve.

I also try to stay away from universal statements like x can never be y because you never know what changes the future will bring. It wasn't that long ago that the majority of people thought that you couldn't tell deep, mature stories in a superhero setting, but works such as Watchmen and Kickass have disproven that.

True.  And I consider myself to be in the same position as the first few people who believed that the majority in question were wrong, and crowed insufferably when the proof arrived.  I always believe that I am seeing something that everyone else is ignorant of, and am constantly frustrated that I am not one of those sufficiently talented to bring my visions to life with such compelling force that I can change the minds of those who doubted me, as Alan Moore and his ilk have done.

As for Mezike, I would be a little disappointed if the last expansion isn't a mega or special expansion of some kind. I really hope the SOTM metaplot goes out with a bang.

+1.  I'm figuring that after Vengeance, we'll have one more "normal" expansion, then a Vengeance-sized one.

Mmmmmmaybe.  I'm not certain that there'll every be such a combo pack featuring the second-to-last set of the game.  I'm hoping they'll just keep ST in print better than they were able to with RC.  (IR is still on enough shelves that I barely think it needs reprinting, and greatly wish >G had just reprinted RC by itself so I could have bought IR already.)

As >G have said that they prefer to have all their boxes the same size going forward, does this mean that the eventual boxed set of mini expansions and promos will have a similar amount of printed matter to the other big boxes?

This is the first I've heard of any mini-expansion combo pack.  It seems to kind of contradict the very idea of mini-expansions, IMO.  With the possible exception of Ambuscade (since he's Haka's nemesis), all of the mini-expansions really feel proper as such to me…Unity is an exception to the rule that the only hero targets are heroes, Scholar doesn't look or feel anything like a standard superhero, Miss Information is a villain who you don't know you're fighting, Ambuscade's Traps are weird, and the two time travel Environments include a card that tracks trash-order and a card which can remove your character from the game.  They're all sufficiently outre that it seems appropriate for them to be sold outside of any and all boxes, so that a player who feels the game "shouldn't go there" can just not buy those decks, exercising an individual veto on anything that they consider unnecessary or excessive.

Big nitpick in your argument:  the Legacy Virus was cured.  Colossus gave his life to create a cure.  That was the big tragic payoff for the whole series–the mutant race survives, but one of our favorite mutants dies (at least as far as comic death goes).  

facepalm

And years later, "Civil War" would turn out to have just been the Skrull messing with us, rather than actually being a groundbreaking exploration of the political ramifications of superpowers, which forced Our Heroes to make difficult ethical choices, and take a stand against their former comrades based on what they believed was right.

Remind me why I like comics again....

You've never read the 'Act of God' Miniseries, have you?

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/20443-jla-act-of-god-part-1

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/20788-jla-act-of-god-part-02

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/linkara/at4w/21144-jla-act-of-god-part-03

(Not exactly a chain smoker, but…)

And with that, I think we'd all appreciate if everyone in the 'superheroes vs. Elder Gods' debate agree to disagree, or make their own thread.

This.

Also, I notice that the general trend of talk is of having a 'Last Expansion'. If there really will be a Last Expansion, I really hope that it IS a mega, or uber, expansion, something to properly bookend the series. Most of me, though, hopes that SotM will be one of those 'forever expanding' types of games, ala Catan and (lol coincidence) Arkham. Yey!

The folks at Greater than Games have mentioned before that they have a lot of plans, and so even after the last expansion is released we may still get new content like promos or mini expansions every once in a while. We may even get more game set in the Sentinels Universe which use the same characters but different mechanics like Tactics.

GtGs has consistently, I think, said that Sentinels of the Multiverse will have an end point. That means the card game as we know it will cease to have new decks/cards. I have also heard, however, that Sentinels:Tactices is expected to have as much new 'story' in it as SotM. I believe GtG also has ideas for even further games that would continue the stories of the Multiverse even further.

Christopher has consistently described himself as a storyteller first and as other things, such as a game designer, after. If you enjoy the stories of SotM, then I think you can expect to continue to enjoy the products GtGs creates, almost regardless of what game or other format is used to tell those stories.

I just hope that after the last deck is given out we have a large "AHA" and feel like all the loops have been closed. Continuing the stories through other games makes me incredibly happy, but I also really want to have the stories we're in to be clear and at least reach a stopping point.

Nothing is more annoying to me than an incomplete story.

Nothing is more annoying to me than an incomplete

I find lots of things more annoying than an incomplete story. Maybe I'm easily annoyed or something.

I'd rather not have the story complete.  It is a world, unless that world ends, or super powers stop existing the story can't end.

Well, it's not a story in the traditional sense if it doesn't have an ending, but I understand your sentiment. And besides, it's not like we can't write our own stories after >G decides to let SotM have a well deserved rest. And from the sound of it, they don't plan on doing that for a while, what with all this theory and rumor of a possible non-card game I keep seeing hints about around here…

Oh, and we've hit the 200+ mark on posts for this thread. Yay us. ;3

Dragon Girl/Dragon Huntress, a Wild Cards character who can turn her stuffed animals into real versions (her favorite is a dragon) has a stuffed Cthulhu....

I hope she also has an ounce of sense, and chooses correctly which one to use.

I'm on the boat hoping that there is a "last expansion" in the sense that I'd like to see an expansion that definitively ends the story of current SotM arc, maybe the clash with the cosmic being or something. I'd like there to be a thematic ending to the current arc in a way that is satisfying and extremely challenging. If I could have my way, the final expansion would consist only of level 4 villains,

That being said, extra content beyond the core story is more than welcome.

Christopher did say "I won't stop until I'm out of ideas", so I'd like to assume there will be more mini-expansions after the last box expansion is finished.

Another thing that Christopher confirmed for me - the current story arc will end, and Tactics will be a different arc, with (some of) the same characters. I forget if he said that this current arc ends with the Multiverse games, but it would be reasonable to assume that that's the case anyway.

I think you are going to be right. I think the final mega expansion will absolutly include the cosmic entity villain senario (most likely with 4 other villains I am guessing. Its a big expansion!). What I am not too positive about is whether we will see any new heros in that expansion (not saying we wont have new hero decks though…). But that is going to have to be speculation best tabled for later. 

As for the next expansion? Go Go Gadget Speculation!

Heros: We will see the 5th Prime Warden (red/yellow guy shown on the card Silver Shadow) and our mysterious Thorathian giant.

Theme: Futuretech/Space travel

Environments: One will likely be located on/in an alien planet/homeworld. 

Villains: Who are 4 techy-ish heros who don't have a dedicated Nemesis yet? Absolute Zero? Bunker? Unity? KNYFE? Thats pretty much it. If the shoe fits right?

That would leave Scholar, Naturalist, and our 2 mystery heros without a dedicated Nemesis. 4 villains + Cosmic Entity sounds like the correct mark for a final mega expansion wouldn't it? 5 villains. Maybe a couple of new Environments are a safe bet. As for the Heros? Well, let me phrase my speculation this way, there are some characters that stand to loose just as much as our Heros if that Cosmic Entity comes to bear down in force. Matriarch, Ambuscade, Fright Train, and Dawn seem like the most likely candidates to lay down whatever differences they may have with our Heros to prevent the total destruction of the multiverse. Don't be surprised to see a few of them turn into hero decks.

Oooh, maybe the final expansion will involve the Cosmic Being, and the other 4 villains will be-what else?-heralds of some sort? And-oh dear lawd-what if the heralds come in the 4 elements?

I'm thinking Citizen Dusk might be a hero, since otherwise why would CR's deck have a card devoted to him, when the only fitting deck to put him in already exists?

Prime Warden 5 and the Thorathian giantess are probably in the final expansion along with the cosmic villain, making that whole set space themed.  I'm hoping that the yellow sideburns guy from CR's deck might be in this one too, since he could easily be a long-lived alien who's been chilling on Earth but is secretly a minion of the Planet Groper.  And The Naturalist's former company is probably in this expansion as a villain too.

Other than guessing that Dusk might be in it, and probably The Whole Gang as well, I have nothing on the upcoming normal-sized expansion.

Who is Citizen Dusk? You mean the citizen on Chrono's bounty card? Not sure where that name comes from, but he is someone else

I thought for a long while that the space themed expansion and the final mega expansion would be one in the same, but I am not sold on that anymore.  Of course this is all blind speculation, but the puzzle is nearing completion. It's just putting the remaining loose pieces together.

Very possible. They also might not be directly related to the big bad and the main arc, but villains who tie up side story plots. An example of some "side storys" would probably be things like CON, the Iron Legacy arc, ect. The main plot, remember, is the mysterious merging and fusing of all the different timelines and the cause behind it. There are tons of subplots to draw villains from.

I think the Giant Thorathian may end up a villain.

I think the cosmic entity thing would be in the last one, and that expansion would be space themed, which could also include some technology based characters.

I think the next one will be more elemental, and have AZ's nemesis.

Right now we have 18 heroes and 18 villains.  Only 17 of the villains have their own nemesis.

Now we get Vengeance, which adds nemesis, but only in a group setting, so we might discount them and say we are getting 5 heroes and 0 villains with their own nemesis.

So we have 23 heroes and 17 villains.  With Vengeance we will have 0 villains without nemesis, and AZ, Bunker, Scholar, Unity, K.N.Y.F.E. and The Naturalist without their own stand alone nemesis.

That is a lot of villains to add to make up the difference.  If AZ and Bunker get marked off that list as they have 2 nemesis it would drop it to 4 nemesis needed, and that would allow 2 expansions to easily make up the difference, but I don't really think that is what will happen.

Making up 6 nemesis on the villain side is going to require either a ton of villains or fewer heroes being added to the list.

I doubt we will see a hero with Iron Legacy or Vengeance style nemesis, I really can't see that working, as that hero would have to hold a place bigger than Legacy as the cover hero for the universe.  (Much like Iron Legacy is being balanced by Vengeance Blade in importance)

Possibilities could involve Citizen Dusk or another hero having a currently existing nemesis, or the final expansion could include zero heroes.

If the next expansion was a normal one with 2 heroes and 4 villains the gap would be down to 4.  

I personally would love a villain only final expansion, especially if it involved a new playstyle (like adding the cosmic entity as a thing that doesn't fight, but affects other villain decks or something) that could add 4 normal villains to set the numbers right.

The big reason I don't think the final expansion will space themed because I think the mega expansions are themed after key battles. The final expansion theme is most likely "final battle" kinda deal, leaving that future tech/space theme able to be explored in its own small expansion, which have all played off general comic tropes. 

One thing on the giant Thorathian - has anyone considered that maybe she isn't always huge, and that she just has some kind of ability that lets her change her size? I haven't seen that possibility mentioned yet so I thought I'd put it out there in case it hasn't come up yet.

@ Ameena:  Yes that has been considered.  Calling her the Giant Thorathian is just shorthand.

And who better for such a battle than the obvious Galactus pastiche from Mists of Time?  Especially if he has a connection to The Matriarch.  (Though admittedly a core set villain would be better - maybe one of the Citizens turns out to have been a herald?)

We already have a Thorathian villain, and why would she be shown fighting The Dreamer if she isn't a hero?

I personally would love a villain only final expansion

No new heroes would make me say boo.

This is probably exactly what it is Ameena, I think you will be right. 

Dude, this is almost exactly what I am saying! We have 8 heros without dedicated nemesis (yes counting the Thorathian). Thats 4 for the normal expansion and 4 for the final + Cosmic big bad. Kinda makes sense right?

Your talking about heros having a currently existing nemesis, and that was my exact train of thought as well. But what would that look like? I mentioned that I think we could see villains as hero decks to combat the big bad, and that fits your idea to a tee. If Matriarch was turned into a hero deck, she would probably still share the Nemesis symbol with Tachyon. There is your "villain only" expansion!

PS. Who the blazes is Citizen Dusk? 

Is floored If that's true, it would certainly be novel, and awesome. But which villains would become heroes, even in the face if the end of the world?

Possible: Blade, Dawn, Matriarch, Apostate, Kismet, La Capitan

Possible but mechanically tricky: Chairman, The Ennead

Unlikely for story reasons: Voss, Omnitron, Spite, Plague Rat, Akash'Bhuta, GloomWeaver, The Dreamer, Iron Legacy

Surpisingly small numer on the may switch list, at least IMHO

We are totally on the same page with possible/unlikely candidates. I would add Ambuscade and Fright Train in there as well under Possible.

Fright Train we already see grappling with his Villainous Identity on the incap art for Engine of War Bunker. What happens to him when the heros eventually beat Baron Blade's new elite team?

Ambuscade is not really an "evil" dude. Misguided? Narrsisistic? Totally. But I think he is only hunting supers because he thinks they are dangerous, and he aint exactly wrong is he? Even the mightiest of all heros can turn down the wrong path, we see that first hand. Plus, he is awfully polite to Tachyon during the Marsquake. An observation into character perhaps?

Matriarch is most certainly plausable for a SLEW of reasons. Have you ever noticed that we have explicit artwork showing our heros combating every single villain in the game with the lone exception of Matriarch? I wonder if there will ever be art released showing her in combat…

Blade and Apostate I think I would move down in the "Unlikely for Story Reasons" section, but I can see the rational for them being Possible.

Apostate I vacilated on.

Blade I see definitely as a "What do you think you are doing with MY planet?". He won't tolerate 'threats' to his rightful rule, whether they come from heroes or other villains. As if a mere alien could possibly interfere with the plans of Baron Blade with impunity. The very nerve.

Agree on Ambuscade. Put Miss Information into unlikely. I left out the Vengeful Five as all five could be worked into heroes (and because the more I say about them, the more worried i am I'll let somethign slip about mechanics or other stuff that has to wait till February). Fright Train, and possibly Proletariat, does seem the most likely, though.

The idea of the final battle expansion seems likely to me as well, considering that Vengeance is technically just one large battle. So if Blade and his people get their very own special expansion, I don't see why the final expansion wouldn't be just one enormous battle. And you guys are right--the math would add up to have a villain-only expansion.

You know, I never realized until just now that we never see anyone actually fight the Matriarch. Good catch there. I definitely think that means something. Especially considering that one picture in particular a lot of us PTs focused on. You guys probably know the one. Sorry, non-PTs, I know it's annoying, and I do try and not make a habit of throwing around "We know something more than you!" statements, but we can't talk about it on the PT forums any more so please forgive me. But you know what card I'm talking about, right PTs? Seems like a good indication to me of some kind of "maybe she ain't so bad." Not to mention that she's chilling with Haka and Unity in the Final Wasteland.

Another possibility for the case of "Blade might help us some day"--Unity's Platform Bot card. Clearly, it's a post-Vengeace event, since we see Blade in his Vengeace costume in Realm of Discord, and his scar getting healed in there as well, and the scar is gone on Platform Bot. So, why is post-Vengeance Blade so calm around Unity's robot that could kill him with lasers? Maybe he's been driven to help the heroes after the events of Vengeance?

Interesting. What makes you think the picture is post Vengeance? 

The issue with Blade making this kind of switch is that he clearly is in Sentinels Tactics and up to his old villainous tricks. I do not see Blade and Unity playing nice together. He probably took one look at the mini MDP bot and had a /facepalm moment haha. Thats how I always saw that picture playing out. 

Edit: Just looked at the flavor text for Platform Bot. Vengeance #2. You are right about the lack of scar. Back to his old white lab coat costume as well. Hmmm. I am not sure what to make of that at all actually.

It could also be from early in his villainous career, before he acquired the scar.  Maybe Unity tried getting an Evil internship first?

We see the scar being healed in the Realm of Discord, and when I asked Christopher why his scar was missing in Platform Bot, he directed me to that card in RoD. So it'd have to be post-Vengeance, right?

[INSERT SOURCE CITATION HERE] (I promise that's the answer Christopher gave)

EDIT: Platform Bot is in Vengeance #2? Damn, that must have been a pretty eventful first issue, then.

The thing is, the villain/heroes would have to be ones who might stay heroes. At least some of the time, against some foes.

Blade, I could see siding with the heroes against other enemies

Dawn can further her Magneto vibe by teaming up against things that aer even worse than her. I don't think she or her Citizens would like to be genebound any more than the rest of the planet.

Apostate I think I have put into the no camp. I can't see him playing nice with anyone,at all. Or accepting he ever would need help.

Kismet: Complete sociopath. Can't really see her working as a hero in any waqy except under threat of death. Maybe F.I.L.T.E.R. run a Task Force X scenario?

Matriarch: Well, she]s a spoilt brat goth teenager with super powers. Sometime she might fgrow up and seek atonement. Also, the point that there's no direct card art featuring the heroes fight her is intriguing.

La Capitan: I think she's been plundering too many places. KAng never seems to work with the heroes long enough to count. But she could. Her crew are nasty, but she's  thief more than anything else.

And to add one: The Operative. Sure I can't see the Chairman and her working well as a deck, but its possible for her to become a dark vigilante after his defeat. Both Talia al'Ghul and Elektra, whi she clearly has some homage traits to, had semi-heroic careers, even if not very successful ones.

Her quote is from issue Vengeance #2.

Quite baffled.

Well then.

Let's all agree to be thoroughly confused.

That much happened in one issue? And the first Vengeance battleground was The Realm of Discord?

I don't see more than one or two Villains turned Heroes working.  I don't see that being a big thing, I kind of doubt it will happen, except for maybe the Matriarch, but she'd need a new nemesis symbol, a hero whose nemesis are herself and an ally?  That would suck.  Plus she'd have an incredible drop in power, which could work if he mask was ruined.

We already have a Thorathian villain, and why would she be shown fighting The Dreamer if she isn't a hero?

I don't think a main villain, but she could be part of a deck.  I just don't think we can clearly assert that she will be a hero deck.  As for fighting The Dreamer, The Dreamer isn't really a villain.  I could see her being part of a team of villains or part of a deck that involves

Foote:

Citizen Dusk is a name given to the man in No Executions, the Symbol is from Dawn's flag and his face is not like any of the citizens, the text that Con wants him alive opens up a lot of possibility.

But we absolutly see our heros fighting off birds. Horrid Cacophony, Savage Mana, we certainly see that. 

Think about this for a second. What is the only non-environment card in the game that deals damage without specifying a source? Horrid Cacophony. Why is this important? Matriarch does not deal damage directly if she is not specifically provoked into doing so first (by killing her bird friends). Horrid Cacophony are still the birds dealing the damage to the heros. Not her. She can't even bring herself to fight her own battles unless forced to do so!

I agree with this. If my speculation about the final expansion villain count is correct (4 villains + big bad), then the expansion might follow form of 2 heros and 2 environments (I doubt we will see another massive hero expansion like Vengeance). The Big Bad, I imagine, will be game changing in some way. How I am not too sure. I don't think she would need a new nemesis symbol. The Ennead share symbols. I imagine Matriarch, even in hero mode, still harbors a touch of resentment for Tachyon, so it could be appropriate. What would be really strange is having hero Matty fighting bad Matty. Chalk that up to timey-wimey shenanigans though during your games I guess?

I figured thats who you were talking about. Wasn't sure where "Dusk" came from, but I assume its like Twitchy in that its a forum term of endearment for a mystery character. 

I always assumed "Citizen Dusk" referred to Expatriette's dead father.

If Matriarch did become a hero, I can't see her having the same nemesis symbol as Tachyon. I feel like she'd earn her own symbol at that point.

Flavour text is not necessarily from the same issue as the pictures on the cards. There's a citation for that somewhere, handed down by Christopher. So the quote could be Vengeance, while the picture is post-Vengeance…

This card is an example of that very situation. The citation and the art are not from the same "issue".

Apologies for confusion. Er, for some confusion. Other confusion is entirely on-purpose.

I love how your posts always raise more issues than they resolve.  No wonder we love this game.

Not true, it is actually a mistake and is supposed to be Matriarch dealing the damage.

Aww really? Darn. Probably means I didn't really win that round vs her the other night then. Thanks for the quick fix. 

As far as the math goes for heroes without true nemeses, we should probably take into account that we don't really know how the mini expansions are going to affect it. So far we've had one villain and hero mini expansion for every expansion other than Rook City. These were released as stretch rewards for Kickstarter, but there will be no more kickstarters for Sentinels and the <G crew have stated that they still plan to release mini expansions. So how many can we expect in the next year or two? There's really no way to tell right now.

At least one. Sure to have a villain promo to accompany it. I don't think mini expansions will be released in an unbalanced way to affect the math on it. 

I mostly agree with you, but there is room for variation. For IR we got Unity and Ambuscade. For ST, we got Scholar and Ms. Information, but Ms. Information was a runner up for the Create a Villain Contest, so it's hard to know if they would've released another villain if the contest hadn't been held. We also got two environment promos with ST. The extra environments are also mini expansions and I could see some of those being released alongside hero and villain mini expansions. I'm just trying to say that the difference between hero and villain nemeses doesn't all have to be made up with the main expansions. Some of the number could be reduced before hand with mini expansions. 

CON might disagree with you there - he (she? it? they?) issued a Kill On Sight bounty for him, describing him as "as much monster as man".  I see Ambuscade as an absolute psychopath who doesn't care for anything but his vicarious thrills, the kind of guy who would dangle a busload of school kids off a bridge with one hand, and the hero's girlfriend with the other, just to see which one the hero chooses to save, and then use whichever one the hero failed as a psychological torture weapon against him in future battles.

But I think he is only hunting supers because he thinks they are dangerous

In the sense that people who shoot wolves from helicopters think wolves are dangerous, yeah…

Plus, he is awfully polite to Tachyon during the Marsquake.

It's a lot easier to say courteous platitudes than to actually give a damn and help anyone.  I wouldn't count etiquette as proof of morality; the stereotypical Southern "gentleman" was extremely genteel to anyone other than the slaves he worked half to death in his fields.  And that's being polite only to people you like; your Dr. Moriarity type evil geniuses show courtesy even to the people they're trying to kill, just as a way to make themselves feel more special and get their power-trip on.  I'd say you're giving Ambuscade way too much credit.

Heh…the dialogue writes itself.

"Goddess, I was such a tool when I was your age.  Tool."

"Thou art but a pale shadow of my former glory, slag!  I hope YOU die before I get old!"

Horrid Cacophony was just a typo, I thought.  I heard on these boards that Matty was confirmed as the source of the damage.

I don't think Horrid Cacophony was a typo as much as a later realization that things needed a source and that one didn't have one.  So it was assigned to Matriarch.

I understand the need for a source, but Matriarch isn't projecting her voice over the birds to deal the damage, it is her birds that are dealing damage.

I would have preferred a "villain target with the second highest HP deals. . .", at least that way it would be a bird if one was in play.

CON issued bounties, but frankly we have no idea who CON is, what CON is, and what its motives are. Might they be all for good? Possible certainly. Certainly the case? Not so much. CON obviously has some motivation behind issuing the bounties, considering that they dont all involve taking the target out. I'd like to know what they are before we start taking its word for stuff. 

The person you are describing is more Spite than Ambuscade. It's hard to get a solid feel for each characters differences and nuances from whats avaliable, but I imagine that there would be big differences between them. Ambuscade I see holding that innocent victim just to lure out his real prey. He is a hunter, not a psychopath (though maybe you have to be crazy to hunter supers. /shrug).

What, you think Ambuscade is more powerful than the things he hunts? Your analogy is a bit off, you lost me there.

Yeah Ronway pointed that out already a post or two up.

The issue with that is, if there isn't a second highest than damage wouldn't be dealt at all. There would also be the chance to have the Mask deal damage, which would just be odd.

As I understand it, Ambuscade is basically the biggest big game hunter in that he wants to take on the most powerful thing he can find, hence him considering Haka the "ultimate prey" or however it's phrased. So if some kind of gigantic planet-eating monstrosity turns up…well, that's probably a bit bigger than Haka, I would say ;). And if it destroys the planet/solar system/galaxy/universe, what will there be left for Ambuscade to hunt? You know, apart from the fact that Ambuscade himself would probably be dead at that point anyway ;).

I've been wondering if the giant-planet-crushing-monster-thingy will have the Nemesis symbol of everyone since it would seem to be a pretty universal threat, but that would probably take up quite a bit of space on his(?) character card ;).

I always get the feeling that Ambuscade hunts heroes because other game wasn't challenging enough anymore.

As for monstrous, he is that.  Anyone who kills for sport with no care for anything but his own fun is monstrous, as is the effect they have on the ecosystems they destroy.

We don't know CON, but we do know CON is all about stopping the Final Wasteland from occuring.  Someone like Ambuscade would definitely be a monster to something that prefers happy little trees and small animals to Death Worms and a ravaged Earth.

The real solution is to bring Ambuscade to the Final Wasteland, and just let him hunt and be hunted.

I bet he'd still settle for hunting down Haka, who'll have proven himself every bit the survivor he's always seemed to be (what with the long lifespan,and all) and will turn out to be living in what appears to be one of the last buildings standing on the planet (along with Con's bunker of course). It would probably make Ambuscade even more determined to get him ;).

The thing about Ambuscade is that he was an adrenaline junkie and hunter before his surgery- which he only underwent because he was losing his edge.  

After the surgery, there was no thrill or danger in hunting animals anymore, so he switched to people.  He obviously considers himself to be civilized, in that he is polite and cultured...but he is also perfectly willing to shoot out knees, strike from ambush, and go after people when they are eating delicious hamburgers.

See, I don't think he considers anyone else "people". He's gone to that horrible place where everyone else is either cunning prey (worthy of being hunted with all the tools at his disposal) or meat that talks (worthy of using as bait for the cunning prey).  A complete sociopath, in other words.  I think thats why he has no problems stalking heroes on their off days, during their walks in the park, or when they are surrounded by people.   I'll bet that several of his altercations with heroes have been while they were occupied fighting other villains, and he took the opportunity to hit them when their guard was down (or wounded).

My take on him is that the politeness is a facade.  A way of putting his prey at ease, so they are more willing to accept him as someone who follows the tenets of civilized society. But as soon as their backs are turned, or as soon as they drop their guards even the slightest bit, he vanishes or strikes. My guess is that he was in absolutely no danger during the Marsquake, and was playing on TL Tachyon's sympathies.  And we certainly know how that ended for her...    

He's a monster.  If any sort of Grand cosmic thing were to happen, he'd be skulking around the edges.  He'd be cloaked with all his devices and traps primed, just waiting for a hero who was too distracted by the world-ending thing.

Idk. I think there is too much confusion between what Ambuscades character is and what Spite is. Spite is the one that will lure you in feeling safe and then kill you. We see him do that with his victims. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Christopher probably made these two characters different and not just the same people in different clothing. There is a difference between being a psychopath (Spite) and being a sociopath (Ambuscade).  

I honestly can't even look at the tasty burger interruption card without getting angry.  Civilized my donkey.

At least Haka is all, "I don't have time for you right now, I'm eating my Tasty Burger."

In fact I think that Haka of Shielding might just be an example of some higher power refusing to allow a classless rube from destroying a divine dining experience.

Imagine if Apostate went all "Apocalypse Now!" on Taco Tuesday.  There'd be a whole deck of Wrathful Retribution right there.

Think about it though. There is NO way he would ever, EVER, be able to take on Haka head on, one on one. Just couldn't happen. How else are you supposed to get him? Plus we see how effective his little ambush turned out to be (hint: not very). Read the flavor text of Run and Gun. He is not going to win standing toe to toe and he damn well knows it.

As far as him killing innocent people in cold blood, I'd like to see proof that he does that in the same way Spite does. The only thing I can find is Hostage Situation where he is holding a dude off the side of a building. But look at the situation. Wraith has him cornered, and again, he just can't stand toe to toe with the other heros. So what does he do? He takes a hostage to try and get him out of the situation. His arm is outstretched to Wraith, as if to say "let me go, and this person lives. Fight me and he gets dropped". 

Cold and calculating? Yes. Cold blooded killer of any and all life? Thats not his M.O. in the slightest.

@Braithwhite Doesn't Tachyon have the upperhand in Marsquake? To me it seems she has the high ground and offering to save Ambuscade. He says no thanks! If he was the kind of character to lure people in a false sense then strike when its convenient, why not say yes and stab Tachyon in the back right then and there? Thats not what he does.

Theres absolutely a difference.

Spite has a compulsion to make his victims trust him and only gets a truly satisfying kill through betrayal.  If he can't get that fix, he'll kill, and kill, and kill.  Its one of the reasons that (I suspect) he became so murderous when he was addicted to drugs- it became harder and harder to hide and stalk as he became more unhinged, so he tried to make up for it in bulk.  He couldn't get his fix one way, so tried to replace it with others.

Ambuscade doesn't care about anything except the hunt.  He'll take people hostage because it makes OTHER people care.  He doesn't give a damn what they think about him, they are just useful things to be used in the pursuit of his goals.  If he needs to affect a veneer of civilization, thats as much a tool as his various guns, turrets, or cloaking device.  

As for cold-blooded…he fires high explosives from the tops of buildings, into burger stands in parks, and puts downs trapped coins and mailboxes.  I really don't think he cares about civilians one way or another.  

@ Foote (regarding marsquake)

I 'm honestly not sure.  My guess is that he's got a plan to get down safely, or is revolted at the idea of being helped by prey.  Or he's deliberately put himself in danger because he thinks that Tachyon will put herself in danger to save him, which will give him an advantage… 

My only contention is that I am questioning his willingness to kill civilians. Sure he will use them as tools if need be, but motive and goal should be taken into account. If Wraith lets him walk away in Hostage Situation, I am questioning whether Ambuscade would drop the dude regardless. I don't think he will. That normal dude is not worth his time or energy to kill. He will use them as a tool to survive if cornered, but I do not see enough evidence to support the notion that Ambuscade is a cold blooded murderer in the same vein as Spite. 

I don't think he's in the same vein as Spite at all.  

I just think that he doesn't factor "normal" people into the equation when deciding about risk.  If they are in the way, and he has a shot, he takes the shot.  If they are around and he needs a shield, then they'll do.  If putting them in danger flushes out the heroes....

I really wish we had like one random comic issue dealing with each villain. Would really make talking about nuances of character easier instead of blind guessing in the dark haha. I'm sure theres tons of things we don't know about each character. Look how much additional info we have been given over the years about Haka on Fanatic for example on the forums. So much about them we know now was just not possible to piece meal together from the cards and quick bios. 

I don't think Ambuscade would drop the civillian either.

He's a hunter, and I imagine him an old school big game hunter taken too far, he wants to take on and beat the biggest and baddest prey he can.  He lives for the thrill.

That doesn't make him mindless or animalistic.  He's a strategist, he lays traps and vanishes, he uses every advantage he can.  No way would he drop a hostage if his demands were met, that just undermines the usefulness of that strategy later.

He is monstrous because he has lost all the moral checks that stop people from hunting each other.

He doesn't murder squirrels or average people, but not because of a moral code, because they aren't worth it.  He wouldn't get any rush or satisfaction out of dropping that man to his death, nor would he back down if the heroes tried to call his bluff.  Everything he does is about the goal, the means are irrelevant except for their furthering of the end.

Ambuscade?  You mean that guy who in a potential future kneecaps the scientist whose studies led to a cure for cancer?

He can't be ALL bad, right?

But seriously, I'm sure he's not a complete monster, but I personally don't see much humanity in the guy.  Then again, I'm not terribly fond of big game hunters in the first place.  He threatens heroes by dangling hostages over the edges of buildings.  He shoots kindergarten substitutes.  He utilizes a superhuman-charged arsenal in urban settings and drops explosives in mailboxes.

I don't feel too bad saying that he's kind of a prick.

The same potential future where the biggest and brightest beacon of humanitys moral compas, Legacy, is a ruthless dictator? 

Clearly, in Iron Legacy's universe, Ambuscade is the leader of La Resistance against his tyrannical rule.  He must maintain his cover at all costs as a ruthless hunter of superhumans, as he stalks the most elusive prey of all...Freedom!

And Fright train turns in his reality bending cow catcher to put on Bunkers hollowed out (and thus nearly useless) armor, lowering the official bad-assery score of the entire timeline by infinity?

Yeah, that timeline is all kinds of screwed up.

Yeah Ronway pointed that out already a post or two up.

Ninjas!  I speculate that the next expansion will have ninjas.  And here he did it again:

Not necessarily, it would frequently be the Mask of the Matriarch, or a Cohort (possibly you were including those as "birds", but they're not Fowl who are the main force of birds).  To guarantee that it's always a Fowl, you'd use "lowest".

I actually think Spite is the more sympathetic character…lines like "I won't become a memory!" and "I'm not evil, I'm just ahead of my time" give me the idea that, while certainly a casual killer, he has some deeper motivations that I can relate to, a desire to make his mark on a world that he feels either rejected him or is beneath him.  Ambuscade, though, is just a thrill-seeking jerk IMO.  He used to be an action-movie star, so that suggests he was probably pretty shallow and vain in the first place, and then he went out trying to get superpowers to feed his hunting habit, got horribly scarred and ruined his career, and now is venting his displeasure at the consequences of his own idiocy on the people he stalks and harasses.  The two are both evil (much as Spite himself may protest otherwise), but Spite to me is a more dramatic figure, while Ambuscade is the dickish one that I don't even love enough to bother hating him.

What, you think Ambuscade is more powerful than the things he hunts?

Human beings are, by default, less powerful than wolves.  It's just that they're good at compensating for their inborn weaknesses.  From a story standpoint, while Ambuscade is nowhere near the most powerful supervillain, he is the one I think is most likely to go out of his way to attack the heroes when they're at their weakest.  (The "big game hunter" wants a challenge, but isn't suicidal, so he targets creatures that are deadlier than himself, only to catch them at an unfair disadvantage.  This is part of why I consider the entire "sport" to be BS.)  We see this on the card Unavoidable Explosive, his kneecapping of Team Leader Tachyon, and on his use of the Personal Cloaking Device to ambush Haka while he was chilling on his day off…he's not interested in a fair fight, but wants to hit the heroes when they have their pants down and can't really defend themselves.  The fact that Ambuscade's deck doesn't really reflect this (too many of his cards hit the highest-HP hero) is, IMO, just a problem with mechanics; he was clearly a somewhat experimental design that I'm thinking didn't quite turn out as the designers hoped.

Actually, from what I've heard, no there isn't.  Those are two different words for the same thing which can be used interchangeably.

I won't get into anything else, but I go ahead and let you know these are two different things. I think, and don't hold me too this, that sociopath's simply don't have empathy (they can't understand the pain of others) and can thrive in society (ie business moguls) while psychopaths don't see people as real, simply things in the area they live in, and thus tend towards doing horrible things to them.

[Med Student Alert!]

Psychopathy is essentially a subset of sociopathy. That is, psychopathy is associated with decreased (or absent) levels of empathy, high anti-social tendencies, etc, while sociopathy is any disorder that may lead to social dysfunction. A sociopath is much broader :D

Example! A serial killer with absolutely no remorse would be both a psychopath and a sociopath, while a recluse could be considered a sociopath, but definitely not a psychopath.

The ruthless businessman example given above is also valid; a sociopath, but not a psychopath.

Ah, thank you very much.

I have a theory about Thiago (The brave young lad depicted in Spite's deck, wearing a homemade Legacy uniform).

This is a long one, so bear with me.

I think that Thiago is the son of the Operative, and that he is going to be a hero.  Furthermore, I think that I know what his Hero name is going to be.

So- onto the theory.

Lets look at the few biographical facts.

Brave Thiago wants to be a hero.  Very much so.

He's appears to be between 10 and 15 (probably on the younger side of that spectrum). 

His name (Thiago) is of South American/Hispanic derivation.

Lets look at the card-based facts:

When he is destroyed, Spite deals damage.

This is the only victim in spite's deck that has this condition

There is only one copy of Thiago in his deck.

Let me talk a bit about the Operative.  Sofia started on that path when she was very young (around 9), and made her mark by organizing the gangs and accumulating thugs around her until she attracted the eye of the Chairman.  We know that she became The Operative somewhere around her mid-twenties, because that is where he halted her aging process through his "Perfect Human Specimen" drugs. Her bio lists her "current" age at 34 (though at what point in the storyline that age is taken is unknown).

The operative Specializes in three things- retribution damage, enhancing the chairman, and helping him by finding underbosses. 

In essence, her role is as support, with forays into damage using specific cards, or when an ally falls.

Thiago specializes in helping heroes draw cards, and if he falls the heroes get hurt.

I think that at some point during her ascendance, the Operative got pregnant.  Maybe she was in love, maybe she was using sex/seduction as a means to gain power.  I think that she chose to abandon Thiago to pursue her own dreams of personal power.

I think that there is a VERY good reason that Thiago is wearing a Legacy uniform.  

Mayber he knows about his mother.  Maybe he was raised on stories of her.  Maybe she communicates with him, but can't be with him.  Maybe he takes such a strong black and white stance ongood and evil because of her. 

He is the heir to a legacy of violence, and is choosing to be a hero where his mother chose to be a villain.  It may cost him his life...

Now, I'll admit that this is conjecture.  But the narrative plotlines are pretty compelling.  Thiago is all about making the hard choice and staying in the light, facing up to the danger.  The operative is all about personal power at all costs, and staying in the light so that the true power can stay in the shadows.  They both started very young, and they both made drastically different choices about their life paths at those young ages.

Now- here's where things get even more wild.

A while ago, Christopher said that there is only one Legacy.  (You'll have to find that quote if you are interested)

I think that, at the end of the Sentinels story arc, Paul Parsons is going to hand over the title of "Legacy" to Thiago.  the uniform he already wears will become his Hero outfit, and he'll be our Brave New Legacy.  Maybe no powers, but the heart and will that he needs to really bear that title with pride.

I think that this will happen because after witnessing (or living through, depending on how it all works) the events of Iron Legacy, I don't think that Paul is going to be able to continue using that name- and I don't think that he'll be comfortable handing it to his daughter.  theres too much blood, too much potential for misery when you put all your hopes and dreams on the shoulders of your children and expect them to further your legacy. He's seen it.  SHE's seen it.  I fully expect that he'll remain the leader of the F5, and continue to do good works (and as the picture of Sentinel Tactics implies, he'll continue ot be alive long enough to get grey hair).

But I think that Thiago is, in the end, going to be the ONLY Legacy.

Interesting idea Braithwhite. I definitely don't think it's viable, but that doesn't make it any less interesting. 

Personally, I don't see the Operative getting pregnant. Even if she did, given her disregard for life, in general, I think she would not allow the child to come to term. I could be totally off on this, as my impressions on this are formed solely on what we have available to us on the cards, but that's my thought.

Also, I don't see Legacy making the call for Pauline and I don't see him giving up the role anytime before his death. If anything, I imagine the experience with Iron Legacy would galvanize him (heh ), strengthening his resolve to never allow such a world to come to pass.

I think it would be extremely interesting if he (or Pauline) decided to (try to) research the Legacy to find out why it's always passed on to the oldest child, and if that can change... Maybe we'll get that answer sometime in the course of things. 

Now, as to Thiago's part in all this, I do hope he'll be more important. He doesn't have to be the Operative's child to be important - or even become the new Legacy.

Inorite?  And Ambuscade is doing Iron Legacy's dirty work by kneecapping his former allies!

I'm not so sure.  I don't necessarily think that she has a disregard for life so much as an overarching desire to be so strong/ruthless/powerful that nothing can touch her.  Her experiences as a 9-year-old orphan galvanized her to become the dread right hand of Pike.  Now, maybe that does equate to not allowing a child to come to term.  Maybe that means that she doesn't care about anyone or anything except herself.

But I think that there are hints that she does care, just warped and twisted by a life devoted to the ruthless acquisition of power.  

I think that theres a twisted love between Pike and Sofia.  After all, they are functionally immortal (for however long the age treatments preserve them).  When she goes down, he gets stronger.  When he goes down, she carries on. 

I don't think that its outside of the bounds of possibility that Thiago is Pike and Sofia's child, but I think that the story is more poignant if she had to make a choice- become the Operative, or keep her child.  And once again she chose the route of personal power.  

Since discussion has luled down, allow me to provide a topic.

I really like the different feel that the villian promocards (Mad Bomber Blade and Cosmic Omnitron)give to old decks, but from what I know we haven't gotten any new ones for quite some time now. I'm sure that more will eventually be made, but that doesn't stop me from wanting them.

Which villian do you guys want promocards for(and saying 'all of them' does NOT count as an acceptible answer), and what do you think their theme would be?

I think Gloomweaver will be a common answer.

Beat me to it! Gloomy for sure. And I wouldn't mind an alternate Dawn, just to see how she could play differently. Maybe a solo version of her, ala Bomber Blade, aka no minions?

I think that if we ever get one of Citizen Dawn, it will be a much more aggressive version.  Maybe a version where she starts with her entire army, but no way to bring them back.  Or a version where she's missing, and its a fight between the Citizens to see who is going to rise to prominence.

Ambuscade and Spite.

I want a really nasty Ambuscade that gets bonus damage and plays really fast.

I want a Spite that usue the victims more and drugs in an interesting way.  (I tried to do one, but the rules were too long to use)

Spite, Gloomweaver, and Akash look like prime targets for promos 

@ Foote:  What would you change about Akash'bhuta?

I'll give my own different answer.  I want a promo version of The Dreamer.  Why?  Because it bugs the holy living crap out of me that her first side is called "The Dreamer: The Dreamer Dreams".  Ideally, the promo would function exactly the same, but have a better subtitle.

Aside from that, I second Gloomweaver and Ambuscade.  And maybe we should get a new Miss Information, more for story purposes than anything.  I mean, the whole "not a target" shtick makes sense for your first battle against her, but if you're doing a rematch, it seems kinda weird to go back to not being able to attack her.  In a similar vein, the Chairman feels very odd in most Environments other than Rook City, so a variant of him might be nice, although I have no idea what it would be like.

I don't see the promo's as a vehicle to change undesirable things. Maybe thats what we want Gloomweaver to be, but that is not their purpose.

I wouldn't change a thing about Akash. I think her deck lends itself well to being tinkered with (Blades deck was similarly well suited for such shenanigans), so I wouldn't be surprised to see a promo Akash.

My one thing with Akash is that she's the one villain I basically refuse to play non-Advanced.  Even Ambuscade has managed to kick my butt on Regular once, and certainly there are reasons to not want to put up with the nuisance his advanced version presents, ditto for Omnitron...both are wimps without advanced text, but sometimes I'm in the mood to beat up on a wimp.  Thing is, Abby is not that much harder on Advanced (if you're going to beat up a 200-HP mountain anyway, what difference does it make if it takes a little longer due to damage reduction, or if she hits back every turn in the late game).  But without the Advanced mode's offense/defense switch, there just isn't much difference between the two sides.  Pre-flip, she gets extra plays for every Environment target played, while post-flip she only gets them when said targets die.  That and a little durdling with the Environment deck are the only differences apart from the advanced text, and it makes me feel as if bothering to track her flip mechanic is a pointless waste of time.  Thusly, I only ever want to fight her on Advanced, since that way you instantly know when she's flipped, and it makes a huge difference.

(I suppose in this regard she's the exact opposite of Gloomweaver.  Nobody fails to notice when he flips, but the difference between his regular and advanced modes pre-flip is irrelevant to his nemesis and a good many other heroes.  This is the chief reason why I'd want a promo Gloomweaver - not because he's too weak, but just because he doesn't really feel like a proper Call of Cthulhu villain to me, in that he functions too much like an "average" villain, when his concept ought to make him a particularly special snowflake.)

Her difficulty has always been more dependant on the environment than normal/advanced mode text. 

Normal mode, her flip side is not supposed to be "harder" per say (I think thats an easy assumption to fall into for villains. Its not the case). What it does accomplish is to change the situation up and force a different perspective. There is a much different level on control on either side, and while nuanced it may be, it is far from pointless. 

Advanced mode turns up the heat on the flip side with extra unscaled damage (always scary to see in low [H] games) and the innate DR for villain targets on the front side serves the purpose of slowing her death just enough to try and squeak out flipping more than once per. 

There are reasons why it was designed the way it was. By dissmissing those things and calling them "pointless", you'll miss the greater picture of what the effects are trying to accomplish.

A promo Akash would be fun if she constantly messed with the environment rather than feed off of it.  Something like:  

At the end of the villain turn destroy all environment cards, Deal the X hero targets with the most health X melee damage, then play the top X cards of the environment deck, where X=the number of environment cards destroyed this turn.

That could get ridiculous, or be nothing at all.  It would be fun.

The other side have her constantly bring out environment targets and buff environment damage.  Like a crazy artist, building it up then tearing it apart and starting over.

Gloomweaver we want a promo so it is playable and a challenge, but it wouldn't be totally different, more like a Cosmi-Tron rebuild than an Alternate Blade.

Ambuscade is probably best just house-ruled to play faster and more dangerous, his mechanics are really cool, just not effective enough.

Spite's deck is well set up for a Baron Blade style thematic rebuild, I'd love to see him before the drugs took over.

@Envisioner:  The Dreamer is dreaming dreams of non-dreamers dreaming the dreams she dreams, a dream world where all the dreams that could be dreamt are dreamt by dreamers and non-dreamers alike sharing in the dreamy dream that all dreamers dream of.  That's why the title works so well.

@Envisioner

If you haven't yet, play Akash in the Final Wasteland or the Block.

shudder Final Wasteland is by far the worst. (Almost) all environment targets, all the time…

Ancient Library isn't suddenly so appealing now is it?

Silver Gulch is pretty target-heavy as well. Mind you, the Explosive Wagons would be helpful in getting Akash'Bhuta to hit herself harder when you destroy her limbs ;).

When I had only fought Akash once, I was really looking forward to doing the Wasteland battle.  Then it came up in the Episodes here, and we mopped the freaking floor with her.  It was just sad.  The Block?  Yeah, I guess it makes sense in a way, but I'd find it weird.  I've always considered the Block to be the "safest" Environmnet, so I'd probably lose by not taking it seriously.  Silver Gulch sounds perfect though, I'll probably fight there.  Though I'm a bit worried about the possibility of an autoloss to Lost in the Past.

The Block cycles itself pretty effectively, so it makes Akash flip a lot. Potentially dangerous if you're fighting her on Advanced. 

A prison riot can potentially make her play a lot of cards at once.

Yeah last game against Akash was in the block and she almost got a turnover victory. She was on the destruction side when she played the card that destroys all environment just after a prison riot. We ended up with a 6 card play in one turn including two cards that reveal and put limbs in play... All that when she had 6 hp left guess she felt like going out with a bang.

Just had a game against Akash in Silver Gulch where my heroes were making a comeback with Unity, Nightmist, Haka and Argent Adept (already incapped) and just when things were looking good, she plays Disrupt the Field on her flip side with 4 Silver Gulch cards out.  2 Primeval Eruptions, Allies of the Earth, and 7 limbs later (there might have been another card or 2), and I was toast and she had healed almost 60 points of damage.

She can be one of the most fun and most aggravating villains to fight because of the potential for those superturns.

Akash Bhutan is the only villain who has triggered the lose condition in silver gulch which sucked because we were using that scenario to teach new people the game. They were not amused.

I guess mixing Nature/Chaos elementals and timey-whimey gimmicks don't go together so well… When nature calls the clocks ticking… (Please forgive ramblings from a tired mind that doesn't find sleep.

That goes back to all the conversations we've had around what villains and environments should be used for teaching…

Wow, how did she heal around 60hp from that? Allies of the Earth only heals her when environment targets enter play and the only way she could've got out environment targets on that turn is via the card played from Disrupt the Field (however many of those ended up coming out via Primeval Eruption's "Play the top card..." thing), and surely you'd need to play every target in Silver Gulch at least once to get back that many hp?

By misreading Allies of the Earth as "Villain Target" instead of "Environment Target".  In this case the Living Rockslides toasted my team but good to know for the future.  I will have to add some Akash situations in the biggest rule botch thread, it seems like I make mistakes against her more than any other villain.  But yeah, we were still toast from all of the limbs.

Ahh, whoops, lol. I used to mess up (and occasionally still do) remembering to discard from the environment deck/play from the villain deck when a card from the other deck enters play/is destroyed (depending on what side she's on, obviously). Usually I remember soon enough to sort it out with no repercussions though (ie the game state hasn't changed since it was only a turn ago and nothing else has come out since then, or whatever). As we play with only three heroes, the limbs never do more than two damage each (assuming no damage buffs present in the environment, of course). This means it's generally pretty easy to tank it, especially if you have someone like Legacy or the Scholar present. Piling the damage onto one limb at a time tends to work better than whittling them all down at once because otherwise the minute a Rejuvenating Entropy enters play all your hard work gets wiped out :P.

Most recent rule botch I can remember making is against Kismet, when she played Lady Luck on her first turn and we then repeatedly forgot about it and happily nuked various Jinxes that had been played on us, only to remember several rounds later "Oops, we should've been doing the Lady Luck thing every time I was trying to destroy those things..." :P.

Well that went of the rails a bit... Anyway, I've been suggested by one of my friends and common team-mates that Iron Legacy would be an interesting promo, but I don't know if it would fit story-wize. IL seems like a "special one-time event" style story villian in my eyes. But a possible revenge plot with a much more frocious IL could be awesome. Of course the same could be said for Voss.

I do really like the idea for Citizen Dawn, her being gone and a sort of power vacuum and the Citizens are rushing to fill it. Or, and this could be interesting, a Citizen we have not met (CItizen Dusk, anyone?) could have replaced Dawn when she had to unfortunatly 'retire' due to  their 'suggestion'?

Maybe Citizen Dusk is her husband or brother or something. Brother would probably make more sense, I suppose, unless they chose their own names when they became "Citizens"...

Personally I hope a dawn promo will have her be called something like citizen war and expatriette be citizen peace or vice versa, an idea I got from the thread where people were trying to come up with her connection to the glowing doves, doves being a symbol of peace hope and so forth. Althoug if there is a dusk to Dawn's dawn, I think its more likely to be expatriette than a random citizen/Dawn's brother/husband/father/whatever

They did; that's been confirmed.  Amanda Cohen's mother happened to be named Dawn, but she came up with the Citizens concept, and it's entirely possible she might have called her paramour "Dusk".  Then again, perhaps he had a completely different codename; we've just come up with the idea of calling him "Dusk" as a way of reference.

Isn't there a fluff quote from Citizen Dusk on a card somewhere? I thought I'd seen the name somewhere other than on this forum...

Pretty sure you have not.  The name rings true because it reflects Dawn's existing ethos, but we totally just made it up.

Well we just got a promo card for Setback with nemesis icon, hit points and base power revealed.  Me wants to speculate that we will see nemesis icons, hit points, base powers and character card art for the Vengeance heroes within the next week and a half.

It's not like we really needed to see a nemesis icon for Setback....

New here, and this seemed like the place to post it...

You may have all already discussed this but, who is "Mainstay"? 

On the Dreamer's card Whipacorn part of the flavor text(see below) is attributed to mainstay, do we have any idea who/what this character is?

RA: Why does it have a whip for a horn?"

Mainstay: "For whipping!"

-Nightmare world #4

Mainstay is one of the Sentinels, a team of 4 heroes that share a deck from the upcoming Vengeance expansion.

http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/multiverse/heroes/the-sentinels

Ah, Thank you. 

Mainstay also appears in Iron Legacy's deck, being punched rather heavily in erm...I can't remember the card name but it's a one-shot which deals some damage and destroys ongoings.

Iron Justice

Ah yes, that's the one, thanks :).

Actually, it's Iron-Fist Strike where he's punching Mainstay. Iron Justice has him erupting out of the ground to attack Ra and the Wraith.

Whatever, I'm sick.

And if you want to see some awesome detective work done by our very own Foote, go here:

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/the-great-mainstay-detective-3453

And welcome to the funhouse. :)

*Sighs while sitting outside on my step, waiting for errata/promo delivery.*

An interesting tidbit of info I saw on the 'Dark Watch' thread: Ex-Pat and Setback might possibly be an item, regarding their incappacitated sides...

What are your thoughts?

Well, given Christopher’s post on the Shipping thread, I’d say it’s more than a possibility…

The art works even without a romantic link. Not enough info to say they are an item. The forums have long pined for Expat to have a hook-up buddy since RC went live and the "Expat + AbZero" teamup was popular fanfic. This could be a bone thrown their way or subtle diversion from the real question in those pictures…whos Argent Adept fighting?

Yes, Christophers link to that song…now for me, that is a peg short of being Rick-Roll'ed. But I'm cynical like that. 

It could be a hint that they were under the effects of a gaseous compound.

They are absolutely together (I'm not cynical like that).

Having looked at the physical card, I definitely don't see even the slightest implication that the shadowy figure is "some kind of anti-Argent Adept".  He's just a random flying guy with red energy balls around his hands....no cape, no evidence of silver or "anti-silver" (shiny black? gunmetal gray?  certainly something more visible than a mere silhouette) coloration, and not much in the way of visible hair.  Could be anybody pretty much.

Well, the glowy green is the Argent Adept's thing, and he has the exact same but red. Red is the opposite of green. And he's flying, like the Argent Adept, and fighting against him. The silver cape is really the least important part. It's his magic, physique, and fighting style.

Red is an opposite but also a compimentary.  Doesn't mean they are necessarily opposed.  They could be competitively assisting each other.

Red and green are also Christmas colors, maybe him and Argent Adept go around singing Christmas carols?

Maybe that is what is going on, they are performing a Magical Rock Christmas concert together and they rock so hard that they explode the christmas spirit and Expat is injured.

That makes SO MUCH SENSE

It looks like thats the MDP in the background. Maybe one of Baron's buddies?

Also, it could be the nemisis of the 5th Prime Warden member. We know that he kinda has an Argent Adept thing going on with his yellow energy thing around his hands. It could be a link.

Mm. Possible. Maybe that means we'll see some Prime Warden/Dark Watch crossover action?

Isn't the entire game one big cross over action? 

I'm pretty sure I know who that guy with the red energy might be, he is [REDACTED].

Ehhh...I wouldn't be so sure

I'm not sure who you mean, so that probably means you're wrong.

Contrary to what you might think, McBehrer, you don't know everything coming for SotM just because you've seen the playtest cards. Different people have had different conversations with the >G folks where additional information was shared, so they all know different stuff.

Or Koga's just playing around.

I have no idea.

(psst; it was a joke)

Glad to hear!

No joking in the fun speculation thread.  You must fight with knives now.

No joking in the fun speculation thread.  You must fight with knives now.

Oh, well since you said it twice...

*brandishes butter knife*

No, no.  Not USING knives.

The two of you must team up to defeat an army of animate knives!

It is a cooperative game, afterall...

Let's do this!

*picks up butcher's block, holds like shield*

Does this mean that Ironic will be controlling the Knives and acting as rules moderator, or should that go to another mod like Arenson 9?

The SHIPPING thread. How apt.

The knives will, of course, play themselves.

I don't think Dawns been floated as a suggestion on DWX's incapacitated side. I think its much more likely its her than anyone else.

Dawn's beam-hands are yellow, and the silhouetted figure really doesn't look female to me.

I don't have a physical copy of the card yet so I cant speak to the femininity of the silhouette I've only seen the scan. However, nightmists magic aura changed, I don't see why dawns energy aura cant too, the sun is different colors at different times every day.

Well, the sun is the same colour all the time, but its light can change colour depending on the angle at which it's striking the atmosphere ;).

A new year, a new conspiracy theory.

Ever since I saw the promo for GI Bunker, I've been wondering who was in that suit.  See- I have this theory that the fates of the Bunker pilots are intertwined, and I think that each of the pilots are funhouse reflections of one another.

First- we have the upstanding Tyler Vance.  He's the very definition of heroic. He's honest, upstanding, heart of gold, keeps going no matter the odds, and makes the ultimate sacrifice (in Iron Legacy's timeline) to fight evil.  

Second, we have Stephen graves- the envious rival who becomes more and more twisted and grotesque as his jealousy (and consumption of chemical enhancements) grows.  Despite this, he eventually reforms and becomes a hero when the person he was competing with dies fighting evil.  

Basically, we have two patterns that are in play- the hero and the reformed villain .  And here's where it gets interesting. 

Who is GI Bunker?

I don't think that its a random person.  I think that we've already met the pilot.  I think....its Chairman Pike.  

We know that Pike is old enough to have fought in the war and he's got distinctive facial characteristics (rockin' the stache) that would make him immediately recognizable even in a 1940's military uniform (or a scientist coat, or the wrecked GI armor).

AND- if it was pike, it would fit with the character pattern established by Tyler and graves.

Tyler is the Hero, Graves is the Reformed Villain, Pike is the Fallen Hero.  It adds a whole new element to his story, and even provides some interesting new angles.  Maybe he started the organization as a way to tame the rampant Crime in Rook city, and (over time) became what he was trying to prevent?  Maybe he's always had a rotten core, even when trying to be a hero. Maybe he was crippled in the GI suit, and thats why he began his life extension/body rejuvenation experiments in the first place.

But wait- theres more!

If Pike is the GI suit pilot (maybe even the original DESIGNER of the suit), that opens up an entirely new can of worms for future plot developments.  

Picture this... Pike has been intrinsic to the development of the Bunker project from day 1.  He comes home from the war a hero, and proceeds to build an empire.  Naturally, when the government decides to continue the project, they ask for his input.  Maybe he doesn't take part directly...but he is in the loop the entire time.  

When the government needs specialty parts, you can bet that Pike industries is in the running for that contract!  

What if Bunker's future holds the terrifying revelation that all of his armor has been built and modified- for years- by one of the F5's greatest foes?

What if that foe (who knows EXACTLY how to operate those suits) rigs them for remote operation (using loyal agents, or unwitting pawns)? It could be done under the guise of a legitimate upgrade- since we know that the Bunker suits are in a constant cycle of maintenance and development, and there is a large support crew.

It would complete the plot circle of heroes turning into villains and villains turning into heroes- you have the pilot who always made the right choice being perceived as a villain, and having to fight against his own suits.  

Bunker vs. the Hall of Armor!

Two is not a pattern.  I think your theory is fun, a bit trite, but seriously two is not a pattern.

I really dont get why you think it has to be Pike, it could be anyone in the suit, any old person, time traveler, ghost, immortal, cosmic being, poltergeist living in a sandwich.

It could even be Mr. Fixer, considering he is older than the youngest American WW2 vet, Calvin Graham who was 12 when he enlisted, were he alive today he would be about 2 years younger than fixer, so plausable, in a way.

Also, isn't Pike Industrial a chemical plant?  What evidence to we have that he would have worked on a proto-robotics project?  And, if he did, why would he give up building power armor in favor of making chemicals?

There's nothing in either Pike's or Bunker's deck or background to support that sort of conjecture...

Though I too must say that the theory is unlikely to be true, I will say this: I really, really want to see a Bunker version of the House Party Protocol, of Iron Man 3 fame.

Also. Hall of Armor. It is the Bunker of Bunkers.

I like the theory too; it's unlikely to be true in main Sentinels continuity, but if I ever shamelessly rip off Phantaskippy's Shattered Storyline and make my own alternate-history version of Sentinels, I may just use this idea.

I could see him being the pilot, not so much the inventor.  The amount of knowledge about planes a good test pilot needs would require him to be smart and inventive.  The requirements of being a test pilot are rigorous and really do require a nearly perfect human specimen.

Perhaps something happened; an injury that disqualified him from continuing to test pilot, (a bad concussion can do it) sends him into the private sector where he is determined to fix the problem, his experiments lead him into illegal territory, and the organization grows out of his obsession to perfect himself, to fund and cover for his work.

A ‘poultry-geist’ if it’s a turkey sandwich…

Continuing the speculations...

I've been thinking about Bunker and Legacy lately.  We know that GI Bunker fought alongside Greatest Legacy.  Regular Bunker fights alongside Finest Legacy.  It looks like there is a third Legacy/Bunker pairing pictured in "Ghostly Images" that doesn't quite match greatest Legacy/GI bunker.  My general impression is that Ghost Legacy has a bit of a dashing air ace about him (Its the goggles, jacket, and hat).   Its hard to pin down, but I'm guessing WWI (dashing Errol Flynn ace Legacy would be fantastic!).

This has gotten me thinking.  Maybe Bunker and Legacy are a Fixed point in Sentinels continuity.  Maybe they always end up fighting side by side.  Maybe they always end up fighting one another.  Maybe both!  

I think that GI Bunker/Greatest Legacy could be another sequential series of incaps (Like DW Expat and DW Setback).  Pike is revealed as the pilot of the GI Bunker suit through an act of treachery (incaps can be about moments of change), and Greatest Legacy's incap could show him passing the ring onto his grandson (since in tactics, Finest Legacy is wearing two rings- maybe this is how he gets it...) 

I'm pretty sure that indeed is the GI Bunker suite in Ghostly Images. They look pretty much the same to me.

Greatest Legacy is Finest Legacy's father, not grandfather.

yep.  I re-read it and edited.

While we are on the topics of promo cards and Bunkers, I really think that a power armor style hero has a great capacity for promo cards. We have three Bunker character cards, or ‘suits’, yet I believe weve seen at least twice as many different models of the armor.
In the lore we know the Bunker suit has been through several different models. I think it would be awesome if we maybe saw more of them in game, but thats just me.

We have - Decomissioned Hardware* ;).

*If I'm remembering correctly. The one with all his old suits in a line that lets you loot your deck (or is it trash) for equipment :).

You are remembering correctly.

I mean as promos, you silly people.

Just to nitpick, 3 cards, 2 suits, one ruin of a suit.

I agree he begs for more versions.  I frequently play around with making Custom Promo Card powers, sadly I can't do any art.  But I've come up with 5 Bunker promo card powers that didn't totally suck.

I toyed around with a custom promo that gave him "deal all non-hero targets 1 projectile damage ." as a base power, it got really sick with Turret/Grenade/Flak, since you could mix up damage to fit exactly what you wanted to do.  I didn't like what it did to his mechanics value as much, but it wasn't terrible.  Made him too much like Expat.

Another one I messed around with was "This power cannot be prevented by the effect of a mode card: Search your trash for a mode card and put it into play, if you do you may use a power or draw a card."  That one could make a crappy start worse until you got 2 modes out of your deck, but it also let you use Turret and Recharge Mode very interestingly.  It really rewarded changing modes a lot, it is also longer and more complex than I like a base power to be.  Probably my 2nd favorite one I came up with for him.

Less played ones include:

"reduce all damage dealt to Bunker by 1 until the start of your next turn."  I wanted to include a redrection tanking effect, but it was way too wordy to work, so I dropped it.  Works alright with Turret/Maintenance if you want to highest HP tank, or if you just have nothing else to do on your power phase.

"Deal one target 1 lightning damage, untill the start of your next turn reduce damage dealt by that target by 1."  My favorite one, because it is a Mech Taser (ok not really)!  Seriously Fright Train+Bunker is an Elemental.

"Insert DW Expat's power here"  It was nice if you were really set up or just had GGun in play, otherwise it kind of sucked.  Just wanted to try it after playing DW Expat.  This doesn't really count as coming up with a power, but whatever.  

I also had a "Deal one target 2 irreducible damage" power, but when GI Bunker came out it got ditched, Panzerbuster is a much better base power.

I haven't done a side-by-side, but I'm fairly sure I remember the Bunker suit of the past on Ghostly Images being MUCH bulkier-looking than the one with Panzer-Buster...also I believe the Legacy on G.I. was a bit more "flying ace" looking rather than matching Grandpa Legacy.  I think both of them are WW1 models rather than WW2.  So there's that other Bunker still out there, plus there's the DecommWare suits, plus there's Tyler's underwater suit from the comic.

But we have no cards to represent who's in the suit....

Yes, I think that G.I. and GI Bunker don’t quite look the same. But it could be that the suit went through an artistic changed like Chrono did between Plague Rat’s Shadowy Ambush and his own deck. Though I kinda hope that the bulky one is some kind of WWI Bunker that we will eventually get a card for.
By the way, G.I. Bunker and GI Bunker…Anyone else notice that?

I doubt it, G.I. Bunker can actually be seen on Decommisioned Hardware. Which is seen well before the Bunker on Ghostly Images has made an appearance.

How sure are we that Ghostly Image and Panzer Bunker are not the same? They look pretty much the same to me?

Do they really look identical?

given Fright Trains desire to lower his head like a bull charging, if you consider perspective and the possibility he has his head lowered, they do look rather similar

Yes, they look similar, but they are not identical.

If you look at Ghostly Images and Decommissioned Hardware side-by-side, you can see the GI suit next to what looks like the Panzer-Buster, and they actually look quite different. PB is a goldish color and seems a bit less bulky compared to a normal Bunker suit while GI is green and the standard size. Apparently the Bunker suit went through at least one major over-haul durring the duration of the war…

Fair enough. The air intake vent attached at different points on the bodies, and Panzer seems to have an IronMan-esque chest core that seems absent from Ghostly Images. 

If Panzer Bunker is circa 1940's WWII, maybe Ghostly Images predates that suit by a few years. /Shrug

Multiple suits in WWII is realistic.  Weaponry changed a lot during that War.

As for G. Legs, His promo card has that nose, just more forward facing.  take off his overcoat and helmet and it is probably the same guy.

What is this Shattered Storyline?

It was a series of games with heavy flavor text and houserules attached, which forum user "phantaskippy" orchestrated over the course of several months in late 2013.  Here is the most concise single thread describing the story that we played out.  (I was only involved in chapters 4 and 6, but read along with the earlier ones.)

It is waiting for some things to clear up, and the last few battles will commence again.

Just reading through some different thoeries came to my own conclusion

Final mega expansion will be a multiversal one (important as they have done anything else yet apart from altered timeline)
it will come about because of a cosmic entity a. la Galactus / thanos / darkseid /death /eternity(pictured on a card in visionary's deck) trying to destory the multiverse

it will feature Citzen Dusk who is Expateriette's father, who died (ok killed by dawn) but was brought back to life with the power of the cosmic being to use as his herald.

stay tuned true believers ?

That's definitly an idea, but I'd wait for some more proof. Definitly an interesting theory though.

I personally think that the 'End Boss' of SotM(If we can really call it that) might be more a cosmic event than a cosmic being, but that's just me.

oooh, that would be interesting. Have a massive "being" as an environment instead of a villain.

Maybe even have him as both villain and environment, that would be a good way for the team to get across "ridiculous power" without having to create a Lv 5 villain.

Very neat concept.  The Authority once went up against a creature like that.

Maybe even have him as both villain and environment, that would be a good way for the team to get across "ridiculous power" without having to create a Lv 5 villain.

coughAkash'bhutacough

Not quite, she's a villain who effects the environment, but each environment deck is still seperate and does it's own thing, they can even harm her. I was wondering about a villain who is also an environment deck, therefore can't hurt themselves and is specifically designed to synergize with this deck in a unique way. It woud make it nearly impossible to fight this villain in a different environment, but the "final boss" doesn't really need multiple environments, it is the ultimate challenge.

So essentially, I'll call him Gutterdamerung for coolness, we would have the villain deck Gutterdamerung, then the environment deck Gutterdamerung, and they each make the other more powerful and can't hurt each other (though it is still possible for things that would also help the heroes, or give them an edge during the fight)

Like, oh I dunno, The Chairman in Rook City?

The Chairman can't be hurt in any environment -  he's not specific to Rook City, that's just his fluff. The Falling Statuary could still hit another target in his deck.

New theories and speculation (Contains Vengeance spoilers!)

Now that vengeance is out, its time to update and re-evaluate some of my theories and speculations.

GI Bunker- I was very off about Pike being a Bunker pilot. I do wonder if GI bunker is related to Steven Graves (Fright Train).  His father/grandfather being a former Bunker pilot could explain the inferiority complex and continuing dislike of Tyler vance.  Something along the lines of not being able to live up to his father/grandfather's legacy (a continuing theme in Sentinels).  It could also be yet another reason he takes up the Engine of War suit in the Iron Legacy timeline...

It could also be interesting if GI bunker became involved with FILTER- theres a rich comic book history of WW2 commandos getting involved in clandestine intelligence organizations...  (Director Graves?)

Expatriette's incap side:

We see in the Mobile defense platform environment that Citizen Dawn eventually takes control of the floating bases.  My guess is that this is after she is driven off Insula Primalis.  KNYFE's incap suggests that Citizen Dawn is an ongoing problem for our heroes, and I'm thinking that Expatriette's incap is during one of those fights.  I think that the yellow floating thing is the MDP- its the right shape and proportions.  I suspect that the flying figures are the Argent Adept and Revenant (He and Setback tend to run into each other all the time), so it could be RevoCorp (though theres really no reason it couldn't be both...)

Either way, she's getting back up.  It just might take her a while.  

The Arena:

One of Parse's cards shows her in an Arena.  I'm thinking that this is will be an upcoming environment, possibly the plaything of a War World style villain who kidnaps heroes to fight for his/her/its amusement.  This could explain Mainstay's incap- he has been captured to fight as a gladiator.  It could also explain the durasteel chains... durasteel sure sounds like a space metal!  The Sulph-orcs we see could be slavers?

My guess is that KNYFE's nemesis is the one who controls the arena- she's very geared to go after the central big bad, so the idea of her going straight for the Champion/Caesar of the Arena seems right...

FILTER

I think that we're going to get some answers about FILTER soon, and I think that they might end up being Sky-scraper's nemesis.  Their mission is to hunt aliens and keep earth safe (and also run prisons...), and the last Thorathian that came to Earth came as a conqueror.  So it seems likely that there is going to be some animosity at the very least!  

If they don't end up as Sky's nemesis, Bunker or Unity are good options.  They could be the people who capture Unity and stick her in a box (They have an affinity for cube-shaped prisons...), or if GI Bunker is involved as a director they could be involved in taking control of the Bunker Project.  

I too thought GI bunker could be related to Fright Train. But then after I thought about it, I think I made the connection just because they were both black.

I can't stop thinking of the very first Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode now: 

Charlie Kelly: Yeah, yeah. That's the crazy bitch that punched me in my eye!

Terrell: Charlie! That's my sister.

Mac: Now just to clarify, when you say sister, you mean...

Terrell: I mean my sister.

Mac: Yes! Okay! This is great! Because earlier you were implying that I was racist because you thought that I was implying that all black people are related. And then it turns out that you people actually are!

[everyone grows silent]

But yeah, it would be very plausible if that was indeed a Graves in the GI suite. Would be a very cool little twist.

I'm not so sure its Dawn 'taking over' the MDPs - More she's in an aliance with Blade. Plus we know blade has multiple MDPs (being that he has 3 in his deck, and can concievabl have all 3 out at once)  so its likely she has been given command of one in a Legion of Evil style situation to fight the F5

Except that KNYFE's nemisis symbol is the FILTER symbol being torn in half. Likely her nemesis is going to be some kind of FILTER Commander, agent, head of organization. Choke is likely also a FILTER agent, one sent at some point to capture/bring in KNYFE as she goes rogue. 
 

But the nemesis symbol is the symbol of the hero, not the villain, and KNYFE is very much 'Filter agant gone rogue'. After all, how appropriate is the Legacy lantern to Blade, or a targeting reticule to Dawn, or a sheriff's badge to Plague Rat?

Dawn would never ally with Blade.

Dawn probably dislikes Baron as much as the heros. She is a superhuman supremacist. Blade is pretty much everything she hates.

Did the Citizens just utilize the MPD for their own purposes while Baron was off doing other things? Did they just relinquish control if Baron wanted it back?

They're driving it like they stole it, because they probably did.

Doesn't the flavour text of that particular card allude to the Citzens of the Sun taking the MDP due to Blade just not being around to take care of it. I mean, they even kept much of the original crew. No point in getting rid of peons that continue to do their work for you.

All I know is, I would ahte to have Dawn as a boss. I mean she did kill the father of her child because the child didn't possess powers. Nearly killed that same child at least once.

I have a filling that Dawn's form of firing is a energy beam through the chest.

True. But in her mind, what use is there in that employee/mate/spawn other than kindling for the fire?

She's clearly a contender for Mom of the Year.

Because he blew up her volcano base?

Because he has no innate powers. I hope I can make this connection without it being offensive to anyone, but Hitler wouldn't ally himself with a Jewish person. Dawn, from what it looks like, has a very similar mindset. 

I get Dawn more as a take on Magneto. "She was so lovely."

Anyone think the guy with Expat on Hippocratic Oath might turn out to be her father? I'm calling it now.

I say Chrono-Ranger.

So Chrono-Ranger would have had a relationship with Dawn in an earlier (or later time travel messes stuff like that) mission. Well that could explain Expat hand eye coordination on a genetic level. And Chrono could have jumped in a timewarp when Dawn tried to kill him.

I'm not saying Chrono-Ranger is Exapt's father. I am saying that picture depicts Chrono-Ranger, not Expat's father.

Or more plausibly the man on Hippocratic Oath, is just Chrono Ranger, which is what I think Rinway was trying to say, he’s had other dealings with the sentinels and the crack jaw crew before we knew they existed. Not everyone needs to be related, the multiverse is already too small a world in my opinion.

I understood, but was messing with the context for the heck of it kind of treating it as an improbable What If?

expats father has already been confirmed as a Citizen and killed by Dawn when she didnt get a super power kid from him

which seems kind of harsh as sometimes it takes some time for powers to manifest. hahaha, big Oops moment when Expat's powers finally manifest themselves. 

Why would Chrono and Expat have beef?

We'll have to read the comic to find out.

Because beef is tasty?

Actually Ronway, there is 0% chance of that guy being Chrono-Ranger

If you look closely, the man in question is wearing a white collar. This guy is more Rook City detective than time-traveling cowboy. Is there a Vice like police force operating in Rook City? He might be connected with the blonde hair guy shown drawing his gun on Expat in her deck. 

I don't know about you but in every picture I have of Chrono-Ranger he's wearing a shirt that matches that colour...

Actually if you look at Shadowy Ambush in Plague Rat's deck you can see something that might be a collar!

So you're 100% certain that he is not Chrono-Ranger because of his shirt. A piece of fabric that can be removed and replaced by another with very little effort?

Edit: Does that mean that's not Expat because she's not wearing in eye patch?

Her guns are bigger?

Dawn moving in and sweeping Blade aside and taking his stuff makes sense.  He's a scuzzy little Human, pretending to be a God and later debassing all beings with powers by trying to give himself powers.  He's vermin.  She would exterminate him.

But then she might also use him.  I don't know if victory or pride come first for Dawn, but she could very well hire an MDP if she wanted.

0% might have been a touch hyperbolic 

From the hair and scruff, I could see it. But, that collar. Thats a suite. Suites =/= cowboys

Do [url=http://www.dailywordpowerbook.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DWP_Cowboy.jpg]you[/url] [url=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7EwPpPwAW6M/Ujduv5c7DUI/AAAAAAAAVEg/OAuX5NTe270/s1600/dedis7.jpg]really[/url] [url=http://www.historiann.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/deadwoodtv1.jpg]think[/url] [url=http://www.nndb.com/people/605/000023536/jw-sm.jpg]so?[/url]

Shirt=/=suit

EDIT: Also, Suites? I see no one wearing an armchair!

Also, take a look in Silver Gulch. The Hayes Brothers and Pratt all wear collared shirts.

Edit: Also it's not just the scuff and hair. It's his nose (which can be seen best on Shadowy Ambush or Masadah) and his eye brows. Chrono-Ranger has very spikey eyebrows.

I stand corrected sirs!

Still have a hard time believing Chrono and Expat develop beef enough to kick the raptor bots outta each other...unless...

Maybe the whoever is really on the bounty of "No Executions" (I dont buy that its Truth or Dare) is important to Expat? They must cross agendas in some way, and this is the only direct connection we have to go on.

Thoughts?

Two of the most roughest character in Sentinels of the Multiverse, enjoy the loner life, and are willing to kill. Yet you think it is more likely that they will hold hands while skipping through a meadow than get into a agruement that leads to a brawl?

"You touched my gun"

BAM BAM BAM BAM

The issue on that card is Ultimate Challenge. That sounds like a Contest of Champions scenario where the heroes are forced to fight each other. Now, why Chrono and Expat seem to fight hardest? Not a clue. It may not be personal between them, they may just bruise more easily than the others. They are only human, after all. Also I can imagine neither one backing down and just escalating things until they come to blows as both seem to have a stubborn streak several miles across.

What could be that bad that two people on the same team would need Medico to step in as a mediator? If it has anything to do with the "No Executions" bounty, then that particular citizen is way more important than first glance and defenatly not a citizen we have seen as of yet (though Slash looks kinda close)

@Watson, I always thought of the Ultimate Challenge as part of the final showdown series with whoever the big bad of the story is. Cool way to look at it though

‘You don’t take a man’s gun, and you certainly don’t touch his hat!’
Clearly this started because she touched his hat.

I can easily imagine Chrono or Expat disagreeing with a plan that the other had made, thus starting a huge fight. Leading to Expat punching Chrono. Heck, I could picture it starting with one of them bumping into the other.

I picture one of those scenarios where Expat is on a mission to get somebody, perhaps in a firefight already.  CR pops out of a time portal, checks his smart-phone-equivalent, and sees his bounty on the horizon.  He begins blasting him/her, and Expat just sees new bullets enter the fray and begins shooting back.  Since someone brought up "No Executions", it could be that CR wants to bring in the target and Expat wants to kill him.  Similarly, if you go with "Kill On Sight", perhaps CR wants to kill the target, Expat wants to bring him in.

Just because they're both heroes doesn't mean they're both "on the same team."  Check comic books, how many times have X-men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four squared off against each other for one reason or another?  And geez, Wolverine's fought almost everyone, good or bad, at one time or another.

I thought so too, but Christopher confirmed that it is not Slash.

If that is Expatriette's dad, maybe just before he "died", he was saved by Chrono-Ranger and CON.  So...where did they send him, if he's not hanging out in the Final Wasteland?

If it isn't Truth it is someone closely connected with him. When "No Executions"  came up last year at Kantcon while Truth was in play I suggested playing it on someone other than Truth and Christopher said something to the effect of "Look at the picture. I told people exactly how to play that card."

Christopher is the writer, not the artist.  If he told everyone how to play the card, then the clue is in the flavor text, which I don't recall offhand.

Well that is certainly helpful info, thanks! That would certainly slant my leaning back toward Truth in that case. 

You don't think Christopher and Adam actually talk about what will be depicted? Sure Adam physically draws out all the pictures, but they go back and forth about what they each should look like.

Just like Adam helps with the Flavor text and the card text, even though Christopher does most of the writing to make it as clear as possible.

Christopher is the writer, not the artist. 

You're right. I definitely have zero input on what goes in the art.

Why exactly would you advise someone to play No Executions on Truth?  Nothing in Dawn's deck brings Truth back from the trash, except for Return with the Dawn which works on all Citizens; No-Executing him is no better than No-Executing any other target in Dawn's deck.  The best target would presumably be Citizen Hammer, since Citizen Anvil (ie you) keeps bringing him back into play.

Truth is a citizen though that you REALLY don't want to have back in play. He makes everyone immune to damage and has DR himself as well as a decent amount of HP. Out of all the citizens, he's generally the one that takes the most effort to bring down, and until you bring him down, you can't touch anyone else. Truth coming back at the wrong time can easily shift the balance in the villain's favor, and if for some reason you can't get rid of Return with the Dawn, I've played that game, it's entirely possible, then there's pretty much no way to win.

Considering I just lost a game tonight where Truth was the second to last card in her deck, and that combined with Return with the Dawn meant it was our doom. We were already running low on HP and not being able to take out troublesome citizens such as Summer, Hammer, and others effectively sealed the deal... yeah. Id no executions him in a heartbeat.

I'm so sad... I don't have vengeance, and I thought I was caught up when I got IR/RC...

Not many of us have Vengeance yet, don't worry 

I'm still in the "pre-order" camp, so I got a ways to wait yet. 

And I'm in the "haven't preordered and live in a different continent" category. Vengeance is weeks away for me!

Jim:  (doffs hat) Well hello there little Lady.

Expat:  Excuse me?  Are you talking to me?  You put that ridiculous hat back on your ugly face and get out of here before I pretty you up with my associates here. (gestures toward Pride & Prejudice)

Jim:  Look here miss, that's no way to talk. . .

(Expat wheels around and shoots his hat off his head)

Jim:  You're crossing a line here, I don't want to fight a woman. . .

(Expat shoots his gun belt off)

This is how I see it happening.

That or the No Executions is her dad, and Jim capturing him is how Expat finds out about her dad and that he is alive.

Expat has a giant crater on half of her face, I doubt that she'd be sass-talking anyone about their looks.....

No Executions was recently confirmed to be Truth.

What, Citizen Truth can't Be Expat's dad, who doesn't die and then returns after getting amnesia and reconstructive alien surgery and a different set of powers?

Then Chrono hunts him down because Con (Hippo) knows the truth and then Expat takes offense that she wasn't told first?

I mean, that might be insanely contrived, but it's pretty rational compared to some actual comic plots twists.

I still like my hat shooting version bettter, oh and thanks for the info, when was that confirmed?

It has also been confirmed that Expat's dad does not exist in Dawn's deck, but an early version of her deck he was.

Edit: Scroll up to comment 418 and read from there for the confirmation.

Okay, I guess that counts, although it doesn't seem like a hard confirmation.  I mean I guess they have similar eyebrows, but the no executions he'd be way older and have very different hair, and it looks like a more pronounced jaw.

I also don't see the shuffling him back in being an obvious connection, I tend to leave Channel out over return with the dawn, and I'd rather bury Hammer so he doesn't come back out and kill us all with fire everytime Anvil reaches the field.

Truth sucks at start-up, (esp. when Anvil is added in) after that the damage ones tend to be a worse pull.

So Christopher saying in a round-a-bout way that the artwork features Truth because he is suggesting it played on Truth doesn't sound like a confirmation? Do the words "No Executions depicts Truth" has to be said?

Sorry man, I don't mean to be argumentative, it is just disappointing after building it up in my head to be a much better story than Truth being on the card.  I was really hoping Expat's dad survived to come back later and bring more Dawn/expat drama (she's my favorite villain theme-wise, and her daughter is my favorite hero) and no executions was the center of that hope.

Oh well.

Chrono-Ranger's card "No Executions" depicts Citizen Truth.

Man, I am being nice lately! I need to do some smiting or perhaps release some misleading information to make up for all these micro-reveals!

since this is fun and speculation could the big silver thing coming out of the ground that everyone thinks is the final big bad relly just be a promo akash'bhuta. and the reason that its eyes and matty's eyes are glowing bpurple is that the real big bad is controlling them and the rest of the villains in a world mind control kind of thing that just makes conquoring worlds easier. and the heroes are not affected because of the time shenanigans and the contact with sky-scraper,voss and tempest but the villains are evil and some how easier to controll...

ramdom thought from an insomniac

Whew!  That's a relief.  I figured it was Truth, but so many people were arguing that he had long hair on one side or differing facial features or something that I was worried I was just crazy!

Just give me one cryptic reference that someone might die and then come back only for us to later find out that it is their evil twin who was previously a Luchador and is now in hiding after they turned on the Cuban drug Cartel that sponsored them.

Oh, and a love triange involving a real triangle.

Triangle Man, Triangle Man...

Triangle Man = Absolute Zero
Person Man = Proletariat

Triangle Man, Triangle Man.  Triangle Man hates Person Man.  They get in a fight, Triangle wins.  Triangle Man.

Think about it.

....

damnit reckless. Now that song is stuck in my head. Particle Man, particle man...

If we just figure out who Particle Man is, then we may actually uncover some new ground in the Sentinels Multiverse.

Is he a duck?

Is he a spec?

When he's underwater does he get wet?

Or does the water get him instead?

Particle Man is not a man, it's Tachyon.

Triangle Man hates Particle man, why?

Well, it so happens that the cage that Triangle man lives in was invented by. . . yeah.  Also as before noted Triangles play a prominent role in Tachyon's incap images.

Anyway Universe man is obviously the great Cosmic Being of Sentinels speculation lore.

Notice Universe man is kind to smaller man.  That's awful nice of him.

Sadly when your watch measures time in Milleniums and eons you don't get to make many friends among mortals.

But then what mortal would be immortal?

As I've discussed before on these forums Absolute Zero has to be immortal.  He cannot breathe air.  He cannot eat, yet he lives. He will survive the heat death of the universe.  He is immortal.  He is the perfect friend for Universe man.

In the end he must defeat the technology that cages him, and the humans that limit his vision (represented in the commonly believed to be the most forced nemesis Proletariat) so that he can look out beyond his humble beginnings and fulfill his destiny.  To be a friend to the great cosmic being, who is labelled a villain, but whose only goal is to get his one friend in the whole world to see his true potential.

Triangle Man = Absolute Zero
Person Man = Proletariat

Triangle Man, Triangle Man.  Triangle Man hates Person Man.  They get in a fight, Triangle wins.  Triangle Man.

Think about it.

C:

That smile! I guess that confirms it. I'ver always wondered why AZ had a triangle on his chest…

Absolute Zero is 0K.

Definitely! He's one of my son's two favorite heroes to play (the other being Unity, with Bunker in 3rd), and the Grasshopper excels at playing Zero as a tank.

Speaking of which – have I posted here the pic of him opening his Christmas present from Santa/Father Christmas?

Umm, I hesitate to point this out here, Jffdougan, but I think you may have missed the pun there - it wasn't "OK" but "0K" ;).

+20 awesome points to Ameena!

Lol you deserve some too for making the pun in the first place...though I have a vague recollection that I may possibly have seen someone else mention it before. I found it funny, anyway :).

Yeah, it looked like an "O" to me, and I was responding to the dislike of Ryan Frost that generally seems to be present on the forums.

I shouldn't be forgiven this, since I'm a science teacher.

I don't think there's dislike of him as such, just people making fun of his grumpiness at being stuck in a cryosuit through no fault of his own ;). And comments on his general complexity, mechanically speaking - he is, after all, about the character who requires the largest use of maths in order to get him to work ;).

People don't make fun of Wolverine's grumpiness.

...more than once.

Wait... is that confirmation that AZ's true nemesis will be something particle-based? A metal-corroding sentient microorganism, perhaps? Maybe even the precursors to the Technovores?

Having read AZ's online bio recently (I'm new to the game so have been obsessing over it slightly) I was wondering if perhaps the driver of the car that killed his girlfriend might somehow become his nemesis. After all he only got 15 years in jail and there were 17 years between the car crash and Ryan Frost starting work as Absolute Zero (The five he spent working at Pike Industry, then the 10 in stasis, then the 2 "mind-numbing years" he spent in the cryo chamber before agreeing to join the F5) so the guy would have been out of jail before AZ even started his hero career.

OMG! New villain yous guys, "the Chauffeur"

Welcome to the forums charlotteML!

Interesting thoughts, it also could've been a villain we already know of. Like one of the Underbosses...

But then again it could've just been a random guy....

Also, what if the lab explosion wasn't an accident?

You never know...

EDIT: I used those dots WAY too much in this post...

EDIT #2: Maybe it'll be a mini-vengeance-villain-type character...

You can forgive yourself, jffdougan.  I'm a science teacher too and I also missed it at first.  AND AZ is my favorite character…

Civillian name: Professor Art I. Cleman

Points for effort, Mr. Eckless, but who the heck abbreviates "Professor" as "P."?  I've never seen it shorter than "Prof."…

Preston Arthur Clemen?  He goes by Artie?  P. Artie Clemen?

Yup.  Totally figured out Zero's Nemesis's name.

I also wondered if the the lab explosion might have something to do with a nemesis for him. (In that respect it's surprising that there's no nemesis for him in the chairman's deck) I agree the car crash might just be some random guy, but the fact that Ryan evidently didn't feel the guy got a proper punishment (from the tone of the bio) made me wonder if he'd crop up again.

As this is the house of speculation and fun and I'd rather not start another new thread... is La Capitan a different version of Nightmist or has she just stolen the Starshield Necklace on her split across time side? If she has stolen it, why show only that one particular relic out of all of them? Is it something to do with the fact that it seems to contain a/the power of a 'verse?

I can't help but think that AZ is his own worst nemesis.  His entire story is about causing fights, blaming himself, and spiraling into depression (which he's never really come back from).

I could see several scenarios in which he becomes a villain himself, or where he tries something risky and it spirals out of control.  

1. Currently, he is trapped in the suit when he wants to interact with the outside world.  We've seen several incaps and environments where suit failure leaves him at a disadvantage.  What if someone promised him the ability to walk around without his suit?  Pike industries was where he had his initial accident- they could certainly offer drugs and chemicals to help him regulate.  Or perhaps even a new body to transfer his consciousness into (through the biomimetic plasma vat)?  We've seen that the Operative seems to be around far after you'd expect the Chairman to have been exposed and imprisoned- maybe she cut a deal...  OF course- the trouble with drugs and cloned bodies is that they could have all sorts of side effects.  

2.  Filter has all kinds of high tech available to them, and they have quite a lot of experience in man/machine interfacing (KNYFE has an enhancing suit, Choke appears to be cybernetic).  His equipment getting destroyed is a common theme, so integrating some of the parts into his body could give him more freedom.  for a price.

3. Theres always space-borne viruses and Nanotech.  nanotechnology could help him regulate his temperature at the cellular level, giving him a normal life.  unless it goes haywire.  A nanotech villain could be a lot of fun, especially if it did heat damage as it consumed equipment...

right now, AZ's story is at a virtual standstill.  we need a crisis that affects him personally to really see him step up and accept his heroic status.  for his story to pregoress, he needs to make a mistake and then (instead of running or getting depressed) step up and do something to fix it.  

Without a firm timeline of events we have no solid idea of how long the Chairman has been active, nor how close he has ever come to being exposed.

We actually know  a little bit more about his story than that. 

Christopher has said in the F6 timeline that his poweres are growing and working actively to protect him. This is something inherent to him - no reason to believe that it couldn't start effecting him in this current timeline as well. Walking around without his suit is probably not that much of a motivation 

Especially also because of his background where he waited 2 /years/ before he agreed to join the F5. 2 years of willing to be bored rather than out there in the world doesn't give a lot of hope to the idea that someone could tempt him out of being a hero by offering him a way ou tof his suit.

Of course, wanting to be normal is a common storyline so who knows. It could show up.

But I don't think he'll be his own nemesis. 

absolutely true, but they are working to protect him by rendering him completely immobile in a giant block of ice.  And he doesn't seem terribly motivated to learn to control them- if he even can.  

Speculation for speculation : I hope we will discover soon more about the "problem of the origins of powers". I seem to be the only one bothered by this, but when I see Ra's Staff, for instance, I wonder who - or what - created it... Also, what is the origin of the Citizens' powers ? "Mutants" don't seem to be a concept in the multiverse - so how can people be gifted at birth with power ? Same question with Legacy, by the way : I always wonder who gave his family this "gift". Of course they may just be the (unsaid) equivalent of Marvel's mutants, but I wonder if we won't see in the future another explanation. Like extraterestrial/dimensional beings toying with genetics. Or a corporation. Or both. Or Atlantean blood.

On a guess, Ra created his staff?

According to Ra's bio :

The entire pantheon of what was thought to be Egyptian Gods were beings who gained power through relics from an even older time.

So, who were they ? Atlantean ? Something else ? I hope we will know.

Goa'uld. Haven't you seen Stargate: SG-1?

Citizen Dawn's bio lists her power source as "cosmic".  Maybe the same cosmic entity that's responsible for Space Omnitron has been experimenting with humanity as well.

Maybe humans have powers due to this cosmic influence, so if the big uber cosmic entity thingy gets destroyed, so will all its powers and all the races will revert to having no powers (after all, I don't see any mention of those kinds of powers in GSF, which while a different game, is set in the same universe…). Lol at Dawn if that happens :D.

Possibly, but don't forget that "cosmic" means "from space", and the sun is in space, so it could just be saying she gets her power from the sun, which we already knew.

If you think about it, everything is in space, though ;).

So…does this mean that Ra is actually Teal'c?!

Only after the Mongolian Death Worm gets through with him....

So I have a new speculation and a question.

The question comes from another thread and I just wanted to post it here to see if it gets traction.

There is a question I don't think has ever been asked about the Operative. In her character card she is standing in a big room, near a sculpture of the globe with lot's of guys in what looks to be secret service suits lying dead nearby. Where is she?

The globe makes me think multi-national if not international and the guys are defintetly security. Political, corporate, FILTER branch office?

My speculation is this. In the Sentinel's card Human Shield show's Mainstay protecting Thiago and saying it "isn't his day to be a hero". This got me thinking, Thiago is too young to become a hero yet. There are, I think, only two ways he could become a hero. One is reasonable, he doesn't become a hero until the Tactics storyline, which gives him enough time to grow up.

Possible, but boring to me, and it breaks the pattern of things revealed in the card game being resolved within the card game.

The other possibility is that somehow he is changed and given an adult body, a version of Captain Marvel for instance. If this happens and he is given powers, it needs to happen within the next few expansions (I think we only have 2 confirmed expansion left, though there may be more). So what if he appears in WotC?

I think people might be following along, especially since we can mostly agree that the name Captain Cosmic seems like something a child might come up with

So if Thiago becomes Captain Cosmic, that explains the name, brings Thiago into the fold, gives us a Captain Marvel esque character, which is one hero type we don't have (child secret identity). I think it is a pretty solid case

I would agree with you, Chaosmancer. I was reading your post and (before I even got to the part where you mention Captain Cosmic) alarm bells were going off in my head for ole' CC. That would be excellent.

Revocorp?!

My speculation is this. In the Sentinel's card Human Shield show's Mainstay protecting Thiago and saying it "isn't his day to be a hero". This got me thinking, Thiago is too young to become a hero yet. There are, I think, only two ways he could become a hero. One is reasonable, he doesn't become a hero until the Tactics storyline, which gives him enough time to grow up.Possible, but boring to me, and it breaks the pattern of things revealed in the card game being resolved within the card game.The other possibility is that somehow he is changed and given an adult body, a version of Captain Marvel for instance.

Time travel!

So what if he appears in WotC?I think people might be following along, especially since we can mostly agree that the name Captain Cosmic seems like something a child might come up with

Captain Cosmic might well be someone who's sufficiently out-of-touch with Earth culture not to realize how stupid he sounds.  As to Thiago, maybe he's Guise?  Because he was wearing a costume, or "guise", of Legacy!  Perhaps the costume itself gives him powers (I think there's at least a couple examples of that sort of thing in comics - Empowered is the closest example but not exactly what I'm thinking of, I'm figuring something closer to "Dial H for Hero", where the costume is a symbolic power source that connects to some higher dimension that enables the story to come true).

Nah, we've been told that we haven't seen Guise yet.

Okay, so Guise is the costume rather than Thiago, and it's a different Legacy costume than the one he was wearing.  Details.

(Or Christopher was just lying, and Guise was the Tumbleweed all along.)

No, Christopher specifically said that Guise was male and has not appeared in the game at all so far.

Maybe Thiago is a Legacy fan and is wearing a Legacy emblem t-shirt.

I can agree with that.  I've never really been fond of the "Thiago will be Legacy" idea, because that's a family thing.  Unless we're saying that Thiago's parents die and Young Legacy adopts him, THEN he gains powers through some means.  I'd be shocked if he was Legacy (and, if it was the case, I'd be surprised as it seems rather convoluted).  I'm not against the idea of him becoming a hero, but the kid deserves to be his own hero rather than taking on the mantle of the Legacy family.

Comic Book Genetics?

Thiago is the son of a future legacy brought back into the past.  His powers haven't begun to show, and so no one knows yet, he will create great trouble later.

The phrase, "Don't be a hero" gets used a lot in different media. It's possible that Thiago was doing something reckless in the hopes of imitating his idol, and that Mainstay was basically just saying something along the lines of, "I'm the one with the superpowers, let me do the dangerous stuff. Go somewhere and stay safe." I like the idea of Thiago becomming more important to the plot later, buty maybe Thiago's story just involves learning that there's more than one way to be a hero, and that he doesn't actually have to punch and kick people to make the world a better place, and that trying to physically imitate his heroes will just end up getting him killed and put other people's lives in danger. 

I honestly doubt Thiago will ever be anything more than the "sidekick" that he is. He just seems like the small child who dreams of being a hero, but eventually grows out of it. Maybe I'm wrong--but I doubt he'll ever actually be a playable hero in the game.

"Go home, Buddy. I work alone."

Damn, Greywind, you beat me to the Buddy reference, lol.

Okay, so I'm going to start this out by apoligizing for an incredibly lengthy post. I had time and little else I could do as someone else was using my computer so I went through every single Sentinels deck and looked for things. This post is basically an info dump of speculation, questions, comments, and things we probably already know but I want to gather together here just in case. 

Possible/confirmed character identities and new people:

Prime Wardens Haka seems to be on Parse's Between The Lines. He is wearing a completely new outfit, but still is Haka.

The Rich guy on Wraith's Trust Fund could be the CEO of Revocorp, AKA Revenant. This would allow a signifigant character to be placed in the card without revealing his ID. Otherwise he might just be a random rich guy which is boring to me.

Revenant might also be important to Synaptic Interruption. If he uses missiles as suggested by Setback's card, that explains where the missile came from, also his undersuit is blue, which if Revenant had been hit once with a missle already the scene would make visual sense. Very weak speculation though.

The No Executions Bounty has been confirmed by Christopher to be Citizen Truth.

The Whole Gang Bounty is the Crackjaw Crew. Ember from Crew bears a resemblance in power and face to Citizen Summer, difference is in hair length. Signifigant?

With this and Doc Tusser every character in Chrono-Ranger's deck seems to have been ID'd

The Robot Unity is building in Flash Forge seems to be Voss, has the Thorian Spikes. Signifigance?

Bearded guy on Motivational charge has never been ID'd, I think. Could be Beard Ra or Citizen Anvil. I like to see this as Legacy accidentally punching Ra when he shows up for the first time after his exile.

There is a blond haired guy in both Back-fist Strike and Combat Stance. They seem to be two different individuals, but could possibly be the same person. No idea who they are.

Furry guy from Visionaries Suggestion has not been ID'd. Possible alien?

Revenant is the second person on Shock Rounds.

Slash is the figure on Incendiary Rounds.

Argentium is the figure on Hollow Points. Note: Argentium is a type of Sterling Silver Alloy. Not sure of signifigance.

Still no ID for the Red guy on Flash Flood and The Sentinel's Cooridinated Assault. He may also be the owner of the Giant Gree hand on KNYFE's Null-shield. Strong possibility of being an alien.

No ID on the Green Frankenstein guy from Tachyon's Lightspeed Barrage.

Ruin is the figure in Scherzo of Frost and Flame

No ID on little girl from Rhapsody of Vigor

Man-Grove is the monster on Nightmist's Call Forth

The Seer is on Heedless Lash. Name of The Seer seems odd choice to me, might have signifigance as to his role within story.

In Isolated Hero the purple figure bears a strong resemblance to Vyktor, new nemesis card, without the Thorian spikes. Not sure if they are retractable, have been removed, or if this is just a coincidence.

Cat stuck in Tree has strong possiblity of being an Alien from our new gladiatorial arena, it could the a "space-lion" for feeding people to

Setback's Looking Up seems to have The Chairman in it. When looking at the Blighted Streets and Vigilance Cards the man with the mustache seems to be similiar, though Blighted Streets would be Mr. Lilya as the girl is confirmed to be Ermine, unless she was adopted? Either coincidence or very interesting

The Silver enemy on Over Do It seems to have the alchemical symbol on his forehead, possibly the same being as from Reveal the Flaws

Interesting note that Ruin has a mark on his forehead as well, different but possibly shows a connection?

Who is the Blond Woman Spite is holding in Snap Decision? I feel like I know her

Naturalist's nemesis seems to be the dino/fish headed alien from WotC, who appears on his incap and on the card Indomitable Force. He could also be a sulph-orc reference but I am uncertain. Good chance he is in control of the alien arena though, a Mongul reference from War World

Who is the green figure with the energy blasts seen in Shifter's Strength?

Who is the space guy with the gun seen in Blackout?

We have two alien looking robots. The green one from KNYFE's engery burn and the blue on from Parse's Quick Calculation. Possible connection to the arena?

Parse is staring down a three headed t-res thing in the card with the arena. highly likely to be a target if the arena becomes an environment.

Questions and things I noticed :

Who is shooting at Tachyon in Quick Insight? It is obviously a jet, possibly military, but who does it belong to and why are they shooting?

Is the red glowing artifact in Ra's Excavation important? Does it connect to anything else (I didn't find anything obvious)?

Has anyone ever translated the flavor text for Living Conflagaration?

What or Who is Ra buring in Flame Spike?

Expat's incap side, the symbol for the Citizens of the Sun is drawn in blood, her's we assume, above her head. Signifigant and who would do it?

Vengeful Assault shows Blade holding a broken Staff of Ra.

There is a statue shown in both Fanatic's Consecrated ground and Apostate's corrupted Effigy. An effigy is the representation of a person and the flavor text states "These things you hold sacred are the worst of Falsehoods!"Possible that the statue represents a common link to their past? Lends credence to the idea that "angels" and "devils" are actually aliens or beings from another plane. Perhaps Atlateans as that would explain how humans have a false image of them ( a "corrupted effigy")

Are the street names important in Mistbound (Kirby st. and Timm blvd.)? If it is a comics reference I know of Jack Kirby, but I'm not familiar with a Timm. Clue to something?

The Matriarch in "Reveal Flaws" is definetly wearing a completely different outfit. Instead of her long dress she is wearing a skirt with boots. Her mask is now purple. Possible connection to the giant creature, or possibly an indication that she is no longer wearing the original mask but a different one. Strong possbility of her beomcing a hero, backed by other gathered evidence.

The flag in Iron Legacy's Rule from the Front is very similiar (to my eyes) to the flag in G.I. Bunker's card. Signifigance? The bunker flag seems like it would be a nazi flag but why would IL have that sort of flag. He beleives he is doing this for good.

Ermine's Impromptu Heist takes place in the Freedom Tower's Ironclad maintenance bay, you can see the other armors in the background.

Fright Trains rebuilt to Survive has some really interesting clues. The computer on the left has the Revocorp symbol on it and the orange goo they are pumping Train with looks very similiar to the stuff in the Chairman's perfect specimen vats. As well as the toxic vats found in the Industrial Complex.

How signifigant do you think the events of Parse's Data-mining are? Is this where Miss Information meets her end, or is this just the beginning. Considering above idea of what could be in the orange vats it could be intriguing.

A friend asked this and I realized I had no idea. What actually is the symbol of the Organization, has anyone ever figured it out?

Finally, I would like to re-post an idea I threw out somewhere else. The flavor text on Radioactivist speaks of someone wanting power, if this is directed at Unity it takes a dark twists when viewed along side the reference in "Caspit's Playground". Is it possible that Unity goes into a "I am God" phase at some point, or is the flavor text pointed towards someone else and Unity is just being goofy? The second seems most likely, but the first is interesting to consider.

Again, sorry for the incredibly long post

Bruce Timm - DC's animated series go-to guy.

KNYFEs Null shield hands are a Gene Bound Guard - the pattern is identical.

Over Do It could very well be Spite - given the mask like facial feature - or even Argentium. (given the Hollow Points image of him)

Isn't Ra's Excavation him as Dr Blake Washington, Jr. Ph.D., instead of Ra, when he was digging up the Staff the first time, and became Ra?

Christopher confirmed at KantCon that the child on Rhapsody of Vigor is The Idealist.

I believe another topic confirmed that the Living Conflagration text is a font and reads "Christopher and Adam" or "Adam and Christopher".  I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

I wonder if she missed and was trying to shoot Miss Information? It’s Parse her ability to read information and see outcomes would make her dumping a tank of Chairman Pike’s slooge that could potentially make her tougher kind of out of character. It is the only card though where her shoot glove is on her right hand. Coincidence?

If only Parse had a card named Recursion!

Issue resolved. Nothing to see here. Move on…

I was just in the thread about Fixer, Jack Handle, Setback and that redirect card. They mentioned Fixer's blindness and I had some ideas (copied exact text).

I can't help but wonder if when Christopher said "blind" he meant it literally or figuratively. It probably is literal, but the figurative fits too in some cases.

Oh, two thoughts:

Harmony is how he sees the world even though he is blind, it is the only artwork of his I feel we see from his perspective.

We never have figured out when Fixer stopped being "Black Fist". Maybe he was "Black Fist", got blinded, ran a school, lost students, stopped teaching, then became Fixer

I could buy that Harmony is a representation of how Fixer sees the world. It's not uncommon in either movies or comics to stylize the process through which a blind person takes in and understands their surroundings.

The blind Fixer thread also mentions he was blind since birth.

Actually the words of Christopher is that Mr. Fixer was always blind. Witch can mean that he was blind from birth, but and this is how I read it he was blind from creation thus since his first appearance at 85 years old. Thus the blindness could be why he retired his first hero persona.

Wonder when in the timeline that would be, before or after she was with The Sentinels? She obviously has a completely different costume on. Maybe Visionary was teaching her how to control her powers?

However, he stated "I'm feeling generous," before he said Fixer has always been blind.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't analyze what Christopher has to say, but I'd be surprised if it was extreme wordplay on his part in this situation.  He first responded with "Is he?" when I asked, and then stopped himself and said "I'm feeling generous.  Fixer is blind.  He has always been blind."

I believe you (Foote) wrote this before playtesters knew anything at all about WCos. Found it again serendipitously while checking on something else today and figured it was worth the kudos on track record.

Absolutely spot-on.

Seems to be highly likely.

Yep. Arguably both of them, from all publicly available information.

Well… not necessarily quite so much here. Christopher's flash Q&A session Friday suggests that AZ, Bunker, and Unity will not receive stand-alone nemeses. We know that there's at least one self-contained hero/villain nemesis paring in Captain Cosmic & Infinitor, and I'm going on the record as a non-playtester predicting that Sky-Scraper's nemesis will be Kaargra Warfang. That still leaves Progeny & Deadline without nemeses (although I'm also predicting Naturalist/Deadline from what we know).

Still, well done!

As far as redeemed villains go, we obviously have the Matriarch (although under a different name)… The above seem unlikely, given that they are all still unrepentant villains in Tactics, with the possible exception of Proletariat, who has become a chaotic-neutral mercenary.

La Capitan, or one of her crew members, would be interesting. And, of course, there’s the mysterious Death-Rattle. A converted Gloom cultist? Maybe Spite, if F6 Wraith’s incap is anything to go by. Infinitor seems like he would be too much like a clone of Unity or Captain Cosmic, although story wise that would be cool.

Deadline could even work, given how sympathetic he is. Ermine? That could be interesting…

I’m more interested to see who our new vengeance-style villains will be. I’m hoping for Ambuscade, but who could the others be?

I could see Plague Rat as a Vengeance villain. They could also do the Operative, Spite, or Apostate.

Hehe. I wasn't so far off was I?

Following up here: My call of Sky-Scraper/Kaargra got confirmed by the Hero Achievements, but hadn't been noted.

As I was assembling card counds, I remember spotting a person or two I didn't recognize off-hand, but can't recall on what cards now (unfortunately).

Does Progeny appear any place on Knyfe's cards? I feel like most hero decks show their nemesis on at least one card. (That actually might make an interesting project to confirm.)

He appears on over do it.

Also Biomancer does not appear on any of The Scholar’s cards, nor The Matriarch on Tachyon’s, The Dreamer on Visionary’s, or La Capitan on The Sentinels. Several villains also lack reference to their respective heroes, such as Voss, Omnitron, Dawn, Miss Information, La Capitan, and probably more.

Do any of the crew members show up in the Sentinels' deck?

As for Biomancer - is everybody in the Scholar's deck identified? (I own it, but have used it at most once, so I'm not sure.)

One does, it's the Musketeer that I won't type because I never remember his name and solely refer to him as the musketeer.

I don’t know, but we are pretty sure that Biomancer is the guy on sucker punch, and he is not in there.

L’Epeiste, or something like that.

Wrest the Mind Guy.  That's what I call him.  He's my favorite.

Wrest the Mind looks like 2 Blade Battalion minions.

Also, a musket is a gun. Why "musketeers" are always shown wielding swords instead I still have no idea, lol.

Because they were named for their muskets, given they were a rare weapon, But because muskets were unreliable, difficult to control, slow firing and had a tendency to be damp squibs or explode in your face, they were mostly used for volley fire to soften up a formation of enemies, or with alternating ranks firing and reloading to break a charge. Which isn't that cinematic. Most duels and single-ish combatwere still conducted by sword which is where most of the films, novels etc concentrate their attention rather than in the mass combats where muskets were mostly used.

I finally got to play sentinels with other people, and when trying to explain some things to them I had a few thoughts. They also inspired me to do some heavy duty looking into so I might be posting here a bit in the coming weeks if I find something interesting.

1st: Less likely now that I did a little research, but still possible. Mainstay and Medico's developing powers seems a tad bit random. Not only is there very little in the explanation of why they slowly developed powers, but the nature of them and where it all happened are a bit shadowy as well. Plus we don't know who else mught have been effected. We do know it happened in college, we do know that it happened some years before (Medico goes through med school which happens after the general college where he and mainstay were changed).... woah... let's say medico did 4 years pre-med while in college with Mainstay. Then 4 years med school, that means that before they met Idealist it is safe to say they were exposed for approx. 8 years. How old is Idealist when her developing powers and her scientist mother's crazy cause issues? 8 years old. Mainstay and Medico's known locations are Wintersburg Arizona and Pheonix Arizona, which are only a very few miles apart, so it is possible that the college is very close to Pheonix, where Idealist was born and her mother was a scientist working with energy related to Medico. So it is possible that whatever gave Medico and Mainstay powers could have also given Idealist her powers.

My oringal point? Mainstay, Medico and Idealist might have gained powers from one of those myterious crystals that we see in Tactics and that we know gave Cosmic and Infinitor powers. If the crystal were being experimented on by the college it would be possible that the radiation could be diluted so that the power's were gradual. Also, Medico and Cosmic do use the same color energy and Medico could be considered an energy construct. One big hole in the theory is that Medico and Mainstay are listed with "Nuclear Radiation" as a power source, while Idealist is Unknown. The wiki says Idealists flip side references Houe of M and reality shifting powers so it is still possible to some extent.

Tangent: I wonder if Idealist's mother is a villain? She's never named, which is suspicious. Knocking her thru the wall might not have killed her (especaly with a device meant to change reality to bring her dead husband back to life) but instead might have left her wheelchair bound (the lady from the Crackjaw Crew?) or something similiar.

2nd tangent: Glimpsed at the tactics bios for the citizens, a few might have gotten their powers in similiar ways maybe even from the same source, but something else caught my eye. Truth and Dare came from project Cocoon, but Visionary (AKA Dreamer) was supposedly the only successfully born super from that project. Also Truth and Dare are decades older than the Dreamer. Finally, we have no idea who or what is actually behind Coccoon. It was supposedly the U.S. Government, but they weren't greenlit by the gov't until well after Truth and Dare were born and escaped. Secretary of Defense Anthony Partin supposedly set up Coccoon according to Visionary's bio, but none of that should have happened yet in the Sentinels Timeline. Very Strange disconnect there

2nd: I was explaining how the cards show how poeple change, demonstrating by pulling setback and promo and expat and promo, I also on a whim pulled scholar's Don't Dismiss Anything. So we know that Expat's incap side shows her after being defeated by the Citizens of the Sun (the bloody symbol seems to clearly be the Citizen's emblem). We don't know why they left her alive, but it could have something to do with the Scholar and Setback since DDA shows Scholar with Expat a very short time later, importantly I think after it starts raining. Look at Setback's incap, raining in an alleyway. It is possible that these two scenes happen within the same couple of hours. We know Setback and Expat are a couple, but we don't know when that started, what if it started early, maybe one-sided on Setback's part. Expat confronts citizens within the city, Setback and the Scholar interrupt, saving her life, but she doesn't see it that way. Maybe she even knew she was about to die and welcomed it. Expat might have a bit of a deathwish/low self esteem issue going on, her mom is Dawn, easily one of the most powerful supers on the planet, expat's lack of power is thrown into her face (literally with a blast from mommy dearest) in response expat picks up guns and tackles major threats constantly, look at Wagermaster's card with expat "What if you did have power?" that seems to be in response to the perhpas lament that she does not have powers. Go back to that alleyway, Setback thinks he saved her, she disagrees, blows-up at him, tears him down, he's no hero, just a goof playing in spandex. He leaves, she breaks, scholar keeps her together while setback throws away his costume. Later they both recover, take back up their mantles, work together. He's determined to prove himself, to act as the shield as he wanted to, she sees the change. Sacrifices herself to save him, taking a rocket. Instead of being the first time, this is the second time he's let her down, failed her.

Plausible?

That... is pretty awesome.

Do we have anyway of telling if the V5 event happens before Expatriette faces Dawn?

You mean the battle where we see the end result on Expatriette's incap? V5 would have to take place after that, as Expatriette incap takes place on the first or possibly second issue of her on series were she debuted in and she is seen in the V5 storyline. There is no way she can be in the V5 before her first appearance in Sentinel Comics.

V5 likely happens well after Expatriette faces Dawn for the first time. I imagine she faces Dawn relitively close to Dawns first apperance in Freedom Five #239, which might be around the "Sunrise" story arch that happens immediatly after "Moonfall" (where Barons Terralunar Beam first appears). 

The major V5 crossover event happens around the Freedom Five Annual issue #27 which would seem pretty far off from Freedom Five issue #239

But thats just how I see it. It's hard to know for sure.

That's what I thought. So my understanding of the story means that whilst the theory is cool, it most likely isn't true.

A few more things that I have thought of. Sorry about the text wall.

First: in the story war kickstarter we saw a picture (trying to post it in) 

Okay, way big but it should work. Anyways, this is a picture of the Atleantean font of power. Notice anything interesting? Like how we have an eyeball with tentacles and teeth? Similiar beings are seen on PW Adept and also in Infinitor's deck. None of them look quite the same though, but it gives somethings to work with. For example, combine this art with the Pillars of Hercules. The 1pillars are supposedly in Atlantis, but look at the art, a pure white field with a brown smudge in the distance, most likely the entrance as it is behind the heroes and baron blade who stand before the pillars. The art always reminds me of the Hyoerbolic Time Chamber from Dragonball Z, which was a pocket dimension. With this and creatures that claerly look extradimensional in orign we can draw the conclusion that Atlantis was somehow involved with extraplanar beings and powers. Possibly the Realm of Discord or something similiar.

Add to this Cap. Cosmic's card Wounding Buffer. The artwork shows Parse, a blue guy we've never seen, and a temple. The temple looks vaguely greek in design and features a painting of a red orb with tentaclesque lines rising up around it. It looks cultish and that design could easily stand for an eyeball with tentacles.

The Blue guy is slightly fascinating, he shoots energy beams from his eyes, but it is hard to tell exactly what is going on with them. He could possibly be a Darkseid pastische, which could mean he is connected to a cult and possbly to Atlantis, just that Atlantis fell centuries ago and this cult is the newest form of this ancient threat.

2nd: PW Fanatic's incap is fascinating, actually PW Fanatic is fascinating in general. Firstly. it shows a whole new enemy, looks like a vampire to me(there's actually two, one clearly visible and the other barey visible above th incap text). Then there is a cathedral in the background, up on a ledge where an indistinct cloaked figure is standing. Looks like a new environment, somewhere underground since she is slammig back against a stalactite. What's really interesting though is the color scheme, brown rock and sickly green light. Look at regular fantic's incap. She's stuck to a brown wall by flaming sticks and sickly green light is glowing beneath her. I always assumed that this was when Apostate had captured her, but the only Apostate card that shows them together is Fallen Angel, where it is likely the spot where he defeated her and she is not wearing her armor as she is on her incap, instead she's in a clothe robe, as though she's been stripped of her defenses, whcih would be a great allegory for when Apostate brings her low. Also, the flaming sticks don't make sense in this contest, but what if instead the incap shows a completely different encounter, perhaps an early run in with these vampires and then the sticks would be stakes and we could be dealing with a conflict between a brutal vamp hunter, perhaps one who pinned fanatic so she wouldn't get involved, maybe even sacrificed himself (or herself) to stop the vamp threat.

Something else fascintating about PW Fantatic and regular Fanatic? PW is clearly much older. Fanatic looks like she's 18 or so 22 or 23 at the oldest. She's skinny, her especially her arms and hips. PW Fanatic is much thicker, her arms are nearly twice their old size, her hips are bigger, her neck, her entire face is much older. She looks closer to 30 now. Redeemer Fanatic is harder to tell, the armor is much bulkier, but could easily be the mid-point between these two. I bring this up in connection to my previous theory because this could now be a situation of a returning enemy, something Fanatic thought defeated, that almost brought her down when she was younger and more zealous, that has come back to threaten people again, only this time it is worse.

Tangent: Could give us a reason for the priest, she interrogated him in connection to the vamps.

Quick points of Interest

While going through looking for pics of Fanatic I looked at Silver Shadow, it is probably the first gathering of the Prime Wardens, but Tempest already has his sword so it would seem to be after Tempest is a gladiator in the Bloodsworn Colesium(sp)

Looking at Apostate's deck I saw the Orb of Delirium, which has a similiar style and color to Dealines Ataxia Sphere. Both are also relics, so this is probably a very important connection.

Looking at the Red guy with Green hands I'm becoming convinced he is amphibius and therefore could be connected to Atlantis. I think the Alien on PW Tempest's Incap is another Maerynian turned evil, possibly after being Gene-bound by Voss but escaping.

The BLue bug on Parse's Quick Calculation is Korrupton, the Last Infektor, from the Enclave of the Endlings. the flavor text mentions it hunting Parse

Never saw this until recently, but Parse's card Between the Lines has some black birds near Akashbhuta. With recent speculations I'm wiling to bet that these birds are controlled by the Matriarch and that she is fighting with Parse and the Prime Wardens against Akashbhuta.

Fanatic's Holy Nova card has some interesting Flavor text I dont remember reading: "You can hide in the Sun 'til you see the Light." -Apostate, Mystery Comics #367. Could be a literal reference of Fanatic flying into the sun to hide from Apostate after he's tried converting her, or it could be a a reference to living on the surface. We've never been clear on where Apostate is most of the time, but it isn't unreasonable to think he is sequestered underground while Fanatic is "in the sun" hiding from her "true nature".

Kaagra has a guy called Orrim the Hive-minded, which is a guy and two mutant rat-pig things with green tentacles wrapped around all three. The tentacles have eyes and the flavor text reads: "Hello! We are normal beings with Skeletons, just like you! Let us share a welcome hug!" -The Hiveminded, Tome of the Bizarre #41. This seems to obviously happen before meeting this guy in the arena. The back art for the Realm of Discord has always featured a green tentacle with a simliar eye. These beings might b connected to the whole atlantis mess as well, or be a seperate less major threat.

Realm of discord back art also shows a figure holding up a glowing fist, never saw that until today.

Your thoughts on Fanatic and the Vampires are so solid. This needs more investigating. Rock solid work 

"You can hide in the Sun..." As in Citizens of, maybe?

The guardian of the Atlantean Font of Power is the kraken, who has 3 limbs in the deck.

True, but all we've ever seen of the Kraken are those tentacles, never the main body. It could be anything. Actually Nightmist's Planar Banishment could hint that the Kraken is some sort of Extraplanar being, which is why she can banish it. (Typically it is much more difficult to banish something native to the plane you are on, which is why Voss for example is shown fighting against a portal, the kraken though just dissiapates into mist.)

"Typically"? Based on what that has to do with >G's world?

Nothing based on >G's world. However, banishments in religions are against otherworldly beings to send them away from the people they are haunting or possessing and in most games that have magical banishments (such as DnD, ect.) they only work against extraplanar beings.

So nothing in >G, but most other examples of Banishment I'm familiar with follow that pattern. Pure Speculation, based on expeirence.

>   Fanatic's Holy Nova card has some interesting Flavor text I dont remember reading: "You can hide in the Sun 'til you see the Light." -Apostate, Mystery Comics #367. 

That's a line from the Dio song 'Holy Diver'. I think it's just an Easter egg.

Just had a crazy thought, which led to some interesting question.

What if Fanatic is the "child" in the center? I doubt it, but there are some things we don't know that are interesting.

For example: Why did Fanatic come back to life. She would believe the Hand of God, but God works mysteriously and usually thru a third party. We also have a second person we know who was killed and came back to life, Haka. Interestingly it is possible to draw a lot of comparisons between Fanatic's power and Haka's, most importantly that they are both fueled by tradition and belief. Haka in his Ancient Maori chants and practices, Fanatic thru Christianity. What if they can be traced back to an original source? What if Haka was a sort of first test, the next we know of being Fanatic.

It might be possible to say Fanatic's ressurection was a one-time thing, while we know Haka is effectively immortal (holy crap, Haka is a hero version of Vandal Savage, I just got that!). However, I point you to her armor. It is one of the only cards in the game that can bring a hero back after they've hit 0 or less hp. And we have good reason to suspect that the armor is not inately powerful. Look at her backstory, the armor and sword she found her not that special. However, one morning she awoke, supposedly after using her own blood to write runes on her sword, which had now become Absolution. Where did the Aegis come from? Her armor wasn't carved in runes, but her blood could easily have infused the armor over the course of a few battles, and would therefore come to represent her ability to heal and revive very quickly.

Actually, even the Monty Python easter egg comparing her to the black knight could be a clue. The black knight was being spoofed, but he was able to survive any wound dealt to him without dying of blood loss, essentially immortal.

I really like this theory, but both the Aegis and Absolution are relics. Christopher confirmed during the IR kickstarter that relics did have innate power. AA's instruments aren't relics because they just channel his inner power. Doesn't mean that the sword and armor couldn't have been made specifically for her and that she's the only one who can use them. I really like the Haka comparison. I hadn't thought of that.

But what if those relics had power because Fanatic herself imbued them with power? Perhaps even unknowingly?

*smoke bombs*

Wow, that was straightforward.

If Fanatic's blood does indeed give her relics power, does that make Fanatic a blood sage and the future Blood Queen?

What kind of damage do questions deal?  And who's the highest toughness hero?

Questions deal psychic damage.

A forumite's HP is based on the number of years he has been on the forum. You get added HP for being a playtester and a moderator, which makes Pydro the Forumite target with the highest HP.

Ahem, I am not a hero.

Forumite and Hero are pretty interchangeable terms.

Christopher's vague hints deal all Forumites in play, those who have posted in the thread, F-3 psychic damage.

I feel this is a reference but I know not what it refers to

Lost Girl.

YES!

I'm still holding onto my Fanatic is crazy theory, the powers are from her and she forged her armor and sword, then woke up and found them.

Yeah, I thought her bio made it clear that she forged the runes on her equipment in her sleep?

Anyway, re-reading her bio, after she awoke from being "dead" at the hospital, she said she had visions of heaven and stuff. What if she really saw The Host and of angelic beings like Apostate before he went rogue? Fanatic being related to the Host and possibly Terminus as well could back up the theory that Fanatic is the "child is the center" theory.

Having bloodied fingers doesn't directly mean you carved runes.

Bloody fingers and carving don't usually go together, unless she carved runes by writing them in her own blood, and the blood did the work, but that would go to her being born an insanely powerful being.

Besides that sword is no Templar sword, nor is that armor Tamplar armor.  I think there is a lot going on there.

The thing I can't figure out is the Cosmitron energy and the Howt being the big bad guys.  Fanatic and Apostate and Progeny are far different than Cosmic Omnitron.  Cosmitron doesn't fit into that narrative.  You have elements of divine and forces of nature and a reawakened AI.  One of those things is not like the others.

Omnitron and Cosmic/Infinitor seem like compatible energies, but I don't see that being caused by the host.

It is gong to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

Villainous monologues do sonic damage, so I would have thought villainous questions would too.

Monologues deal damage from the actual speech, however, questions only make you ask more questions, that's psychic damage.

I respectfully disagree.

You're just trying to make Pydro the Forum target with the second highest HP so he'll get hit by Christopher's Malevolent Teasing.

I also don't agree.

(Not to diminish Pydro, mind you. )

And if WriterRyan was here, he'd also won't agree.

My plan to get Pydro killed has failed. I would've gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling mods…and your Ronway.

Well that’s depressing.

He's not our Ronway.

I hope not.

He's someone else's Ronway.

Someone's sick, and deranged Ronway.