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Explain all Inpacitated Sides

60 posts · 5516 views · started 2013-04-14 19:51 UTC
PU
Pushingthelimits
2013-04-14 19:51 UTC
#1

When I first got the main game, I thought the back sides where just interesting to look at. Then I got Team Leader Tachyon at PAX and wondered out loud about the picture on the back. I didn't know all the villains so I didn't recognize the picture. But Christopher was right there and hinted that it mattered who was in the picture and why. I started looking at all the cards and now I want to know more. Is it confirmed that the Incapacitated Sides are canon?

Well, whether they are or not, I would love to start compiling all we know about what we see there. Does a character actually die? Who or what does the damage to the character? What else is in the picture that gives information about the setting, the characters, or the storylines?

I imagine we start adding information and then compile it into a master list. Also, as we learn more, we will fill in more information.

AM
Ameena
2013-04-14 22:28 UTC
#2

Well, we know both Legacy and Young Legacy are definitely gonna die...in different timelines, but they are gonna die.

SP
Spiff
2013-04-15 00:20 UTC
#3

Golem Unity's back side shows that she is indeed not human, but rather a golem who thinks it's the real Unity.

I like how the backside art is often (always ?) a tribute to something.  Young Legacy's is the famous cover when Supergirl died, Argent Adept's is a famous cover of Wolverine on a cross, Unity's is made to look like Magneto's prison from the movies, etc.  Team Leader Tachyon's seems to be a tribute to the famous Skyrim quote the guards are always saying, about how they took an arrow to the knee.  And I'd guess that Unity Golem is supposed to look like the Terminator from Terminator 4, strung up like that.

Someone on the forums also pointed out that Bunker: Engine of War's is a tribute to an Iron Man cover where a drunk Tony Stark is seeing himself do something unusual in the mirror.  Since Future Bunker is seeing himself in his old Frightrain armor, that could mean he still secretly wants to be evil, or maybe he's worried he actually is secretly evil.  Or maybe he just really likes his old suit... ;)

IR
Ironic
2013-04-15 02:38 UTC
#4

Note that Omnitron also has robots which look Terminator-like.

LY
lynkfox
2013-04-15 02:44 UTC
#5

oh ironic. I hope i didnt make you stop signing your name Ironic. I dont mind, and most of the time, it really is ironic :P

IR
Ironic
2013-04-15 03:04 UTC
#6

I usually eschew it for the one-line posts.

DR
Drakossozh
2013-04-15 05:46 UTC
#7

There is a fairly, ah, succinct explanation for each of the incap sides found here, if you're interested. https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/nightmist-incapacitated-side-3251

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-15 16:59 UTC
#8

But what does it mean to be? If Unity's conscience has been transferred to this Golem and it shares Unity's memories, dreams, and aspirations, does it really cease to be Unity just because her flesh was traded for steel? 

Ha. Obviously this is an existential debate I dont really expect is to get into since it's not really related in any meaningful manner to the game, but ever since Golem Unity was revealed I was fascinated by the issue and have been working on a fanfic dealing with Golem Unity's issues and how she and her teammates deal with it. I'm working it from the angle that Golem Unity knows she is a golem and still believes she is Unity and the conflicts this creates. I had an outline setup for this story, but the addition of Omnitron-X to the roster was something I really wanted to put in the story, so that has delayed things a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to get it done soon. 

 

 

FO
Foote
2013-04-15 18:20 UTC
#9

I fixed this for you.

She is obviously part Golem. That is clear. However, we can clearly see bones. Human bones. A human skull, and a human ribcage. The way the art is presented, it almost splits her in half (picture wise), where her two sides are distinctly different but part of the same whole.

Why would a Golem have a rib cage? I contend a Golem would not be built this way, instead opting for one solid plate to cover its chest cavity.

Golem Unity thinks she is the long dead Unity because…wait for it…she is! Or at least partly is.

 

Going off another thread, the Incap side for Golem Unity could also be…gasp…Con! Already hooked up and wired, waiting for the Final Wasteland

SP
Spiff
2013-04-15 20:35 UTC
#10

Why aren't those metal bones?  A golem would have a skeleton for the same reason a human has one - to hang musculature on and to protect vital internal organs.  Just because the musculature is synthetic and the organs aren't organic doesn't change that.  Plus, if it's going to look like a human, it should connect together like a human, no?

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-15 21:42 UTC
#11

I think the question is why would a golem have half its skeleton resemble a human one and the other half be solid plates?

FO
Foote
2013-04-16 13:33 UTC
#12

This. Maybe it is because the image strongly resembles the human reaper from Mass Effect 2. But the depiction of a clear robot structure intertwined with a human structure really leads me to think that Golem Unity is an amalgam. Both human and machine.

But I am sure that whatever the >G guys really have in mind is much cooler haha

 

SP
Spiff
2013-04-16 14:16 UTC
#13

From the Kickstarter:

In a dark future where [REDACTED] patrols and judges the world with an iron fist, the Freedom Six formed from the remnants of the Freedom Five, whose time had long since past. Tachyon scoured the globe for her former teammates and found those who had survived. Most were worse for wear, but, with the addition of an old foe in the hollowed-out shell of an experimental version of the Bunker suit, and a mechanical golem that believes it is actually the long-dead Unity, a new team was formed. Will they be strong enough to withstand the great challenges they face? Only time will tell...

emphasis mine.

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-16 14:42 UTC
#14

But that doesn't say it believes it wrongly. It could be that no one else believes the golem to be Unity, but in the end it turns out to actually be her (or her conscience) after all.

We are all just speculating here and I don't think anything in the theories that have been posted really contradicts the information that has been provided. 

 

SP
Spiff
2013-04-16 15:38 UTC
#15

Yeah, but it says right there that it's a mechanical golem, regardless of what it believes.  Ergo, those aren't human bits hanging there, they're robot bits.

RA
Rabit
2013-04-16 15:59 UTC
#16

Yeah, Christopher has made it clear in conversations that it only thinks it is Unity.

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-16 16:02 UTC
#17

Fair enough. 

My theory was that as Unity sustained more and more damage in battle she kept replacing more and more of her body parts with mechanical parts until there really wasn't anything human anymore, but it was still Unity since the changes were all gradual so she never really ceased to exist.

So it could be that different injuries sustained required different types of fixes and also as she required more and more mechanical parts she tried to make them look more human so as to retain some part of her identity... that may explain why her two halves look so different. 

Ha. I guess now I'm not so much speculating as to what really happened as I am fitting the information given to my theory.

 

FO
Foote
2013-04-16 17:02 UTC
#18

If she is not at least partly organic, then I must admit that depicting half of her innards as human in structure baffles me a bit. Why not just be all obviously mechanical since she is stripped to the core? I think showing her the way she is shown is significant, but admitedlly probably not in the ways in which I am anticipating.

I give you that she is probably not half of the real Unity, but to say she is not at least partly organic? She is the only Golem to have skin after all...

AM
Ameena
2013-04-16 21:01 UTC
#19

Maybe she started building herself a new body because her old one had become too damaged or something, with the intent of "uploading" herself into it or something, as a last resort. Then more bad stuff happened and she had to finish in a rush, so the properly-human-looking robotic structure she'd started building just got finished up to be functional rather than realistic (at least inside). Then she had to upload herself but something went wrong, somehow, and forgot that the body she was now in wasn't her original body but one she'd built.

Or something?

 

Edit - Or maybe Unity started building the body and then someone else finished it, not as good at robotics as she was and therefore didn't get the structure really human-looking. Then uploaded Unity's consciousness (her being dead or whatever meant that she couldn't finish the bot, maybe she was unconscious or something) into it but with the same "doesn't know she's a robot" flaw, if that's really a flaw.

ZA
Zalrus9
2013-04-16 23:41 UTC
#20

I think you're on to something. Perhaps what Unity does when she brings inanimate objects to life is that she is injecting them with some of her soul. I don't quite remember, but I think her power activates automatically. Therefore, if she is killed, where does that excess energy go? It probably goes to the nearest metal bits and creates a body for itself, as that's what it beleives itself to be. This may be some sort of silly Dr. Who-type stuff, but it makes sense in the context of this universe --er, multiverse.

AM
Ameena
2013-04-17 09:47 UTC
#21

Hey, Doctor Who basically prides itself on being silly some of the time - otherwise, why else use phrases like "Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey" and "I've reversed the polarity of the jelly baby" (okay so that last one was a copy of the Doctor who'd just animated and not got a proper grip on himself yet…oh and I didn't miss the reference to the reverse-the-polarity quote on one of Omni-10's cards…I just keep forgetting to mention it, and I think there was another quote or two that I caught in his deck from something I know as well)? :smiley: Anyway…yeah, Unity's power is to destroy an equipment card and bring a bot into play, implying, I suppose, that she converts that equipment (or bits of it) into a bot.

If she is really Con, I'll start getting worried the moment she starts offering Chrono Ranger cake the moment he finishes off all his bounties or something ;).

RA
Rabit
2013-04-17 12:47 UTC
#22

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :grin:

PU
Pushingthelimits
2013-04-18 18:30 UTC
#23

This has been helpful. Especially the link from Drakossozh to the conversation that started with Nightmist's incap side. 

How about the Wraith incap? Is the Wraith dead and this represents someone else taking over, wearing the same mask? I think the haircut is different than on the front side of the card.

FB
fba827
2013-04-18 18:51 UTC
#24

 

That may be entirely true (I have not seen T4) but when I saw the back of her card, the first thought that came to mind was the "Borg Queen" from Star Trek First Contact, when her visage of humanity was being melted/burned away by the acidic gas at the time of her defeat.

AM
Ameena
2013-04-18 23:36 UTC
#25

My first thought was Sotha Sil from the Tribunal expansion of Morrowind (Elder Scrolls III).

RE
Reckless
2013-04-19 19:46 UTC
#26

Unity also likes making her bots aesthetically pleasing.  Perhaps she made the innards look so human to avoid an uncanny valley situation?  I mean, we aren't really supposed to see the inside of the Golem, but wouldn't that be something that Unity would care about?  Making her creations look good inside and out?

AM
Ameena
2013-04-20 17:54 UTC
#27

I had a thought that adds onto my previous "Unity started building herself a body and then someone finished it" theory yesterday when I was playing as (normal) Unity and was looking at Golem Unity's card. So if the person who helped her/finished off the golem body is someone who knows about machinery and tools and general mechanical stuff like that...there is really only one obvious suggestion, given what Golem Unity is wearing... ;).

IR
Ironic
2013-04-21 05:11 UTC
#28

It's Haka, isn't it?

(Golem Unity is wearing a hat, hats cover part of your face, Haka covers part of his face, it all fits perfectly!)

Ironic

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 13:32 UTC
#29

I dont hate this. I dont hate this one bit.

I still kinda believe Fixer to be dead in that timeline, but I do not think that has ever been explicitly confirmed/denied. I like where your head is at though.

ZA
Zalrus9
2013-04-22 13:50 UTC
#30

I don't know. I still don't think Golem unity is a planned thing. What makes unity clash with tachyon is that her science is more instinctual and chaotic: much like the difference between sorcerers and wizards. I think it would be very touching if the golem unity thought she was unity because she was the onconcious remnants of her powers. I may be alone on this though...

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 14:33 UTC
#31

From Unity's Bio: "She could simply think about the components in front of her and begin assembling them in her mind, and the pieces would align themselves! She was a technopath - anything she could visualize, she could build, given the right parts"

I think you guys are on to something here. Here are my new thoughts. 

Her technopathic powers might have been so powerful that they persisted after death and her subconciousness built a golem of herself. This could explain why the golem believes it is the real Unity (it would be the same conciousness after all), and could explain why her robotic innards so closley resemble an organic human structure. I originally thought that because they looked human, than it must be organic. However, if her conciousness rebuilt herself, it makes sense that her mind would build a human structure because its a human that its trying to rebuild!

At some point, her conciousness might realize that it is in fact not the real Unity. After the new golem body gets scrapped (presumably by Iron Legacy), it starts to repurpose itself once again, giving way to the creation of CON perhaps? That seems to be a popular speculation at the moment and I am trying and run with it.

DR
Drakossozh
2013-04-22 15:42 UTC
#32

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, but wouldn't the whole "I'm the original flesh-and-blood Unity" thing be kind of screwed over as soon as G-Unity looks in a mirror? Hello robot face. What more the eating, and the breathing, and even the, ah, passing of waste, or rather the lack of all three of those and more...

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 15:50 UTC
#33

Cognitive Dissonance can be a very powerful thing I guess

SE
Sefirit
2013-04-22 16:11 UTC
#34

We know that Unity built other members of the team with Swiftbot, Chapmionbot, Turretbot, Stealthbot and Cryobot.  Maybe she just bilt a Unitybot to help her out.  Then the real Unity died but her bot was still alive, still had the look of Unity, still had powers of Unity, heard the "Walks like a duck, talks like a duck" phrase and thought "I must be Unity!" 

Its feasible that the bot was fighting bad guys and they just referred to it as Unity either for ease or not knowing the difference.  It got confused for Unity enought that it started to think it was Unity.

PY
Pydro
2013-04-22 16:28 UTC
#35

Why are we assuming the Golem unity was built all at once? What if every time Unity was injured, she replaced the part with a mechanical one, until there was nothing left of her.

Furthermore, on the front she has "skin," hair and a baseball cap, how do we know she doesn't have a human brain under the cap, and everything is destryoed/removed on the incap side (which is why she needs to be pugged in).

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 16:44 UTC
#36

This is why I think there is more to Golem Unity. Yes there are Golems of the other team members, but none of them are anywhere close to looking human, where Golem Unity is nearly identical (save for the exposed robotic parts).

 

Just a random thought, does anything think that the entity that rebuilt cosmic omnitron might have had a hand in resurecting Unity and her technopathic powers? Seems like if Omnitrons self awareness caught its attention, Unity's unique power might also be of interest to it in some capacity? 

SE
Sefirit
2013-04-22 18:26 UTC
#37

Most of these posts are going with the same idea.  I think my post might have only been the "there might not be any Unity in Golem Unity" post on the board.  I think most people WANT their to be Unity in there.  I thought the curveball plot twist, when everyone is expecting more, is to say "nope, nothing special here, just move along."

As far as the bones, I'm pretty sure they are metal and there is no organic tissue ont he back side.  This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it does dispute the idea that GU has organic parts.  Continuing that idea with skin on her front side, could just be paint.  Now, even if it is paint this would be the only bot of the freedom six bots to get paint like that, but it could simply be because the bot is crazy.

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 19:05 UTC
#38

The problem with the "its just a golem like all the others, nothing to see here" theory is that this Golem has Unitys Technopathic powers somehow.

Now I could be missing something, but that is a far cry from the capabilities of her other bots. We do not see a Visionary Golem with telekinetic powers for example. Could there be one? I mean sure it is totally possible, but from what information we have to speculate on these things, there is nothing to suggest she could infuse her bots with those kind of abilities.

I am on board with you about the "bones" being metal now though. As I said above, my current thought is that Unity's technopathy is so strong that it persisted after her death and created a new body for itself and is having identity issues. It probably realises at some point that it never was Unity (she is dead) but keeps on existing, possibly even becoming CON that Chrono Ranger meets. But I have a bad habbit of forming theories to fit my preconcieved ideas, and trying to link her to CON admittedly might be doing just that.

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-04-22 19:06 UTC
#39

 

Actually I love this, but I can see many of these theories as being true due to our lack of information… You know, interesting disticntion. Does the golem believe itself to be Unity of believe itself to be Devra Thalia Caspit AKA Unity? Also, if Golem Unity is using the tecnopathic powers of Unity does that mean she has the brain or that whoever built her figured out a way to emulate Unity's abilities?

PY
Pydro
2013-04-22 19:07 UTC
#40

Has the word “bot” every been officially used in reference to GU?

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 19:12 UTC
#41

I dont believe so. There was talk of the community wanting the "Golem" keyword attached to her character card (much like Citizen Dawn has the 'Citizen' keyword), but that was shot down by >G. That probably has everything to do with gameplay and nothing to do with the conceptual idea of Golem Unity, but it is interesting to point out.

PY
Pydro
2013-04-22 20:13 UTC
#42

I don’t think that the incap side has any organic parts, but we often see an injured char on the back. That being said the injuries from front to back could have stripped the last of tje orhanic material (we know the skin and hair are missing). This is of course per speculation.

EG
eggroll20xd6
2013-05-10 19:01 UTC
#43

Just spitballing here, but when I first saw Golem Unity, the first thought that came to my mind was the Death and Return of Superman storyline where Cyber Superman believed itself to be the actual Superman and fought as Superman for a while when in reality it was an old nemesis of his.  Could it be that this Golem is an old villain kind of like Bunker Engine of War that is a former enemy that has either become an ally or trying to get close to betray the group?

 

*Edit: Also, my thoughts on the incapacitated side is that of Terminator 4 as well with the realization that the main character was actually one of the first terminators and no longer human.  In that case, he remained a hero, but as a machine, you could go either way based on your programming.

BR
Braithwhite
2013-05-10 23:34 UTC
#44

 

Here's my thoughts on the Incapacitated sides:

I think that every incapacitated side happens at some point.  They are all canon.  Some of them only happen in one version of history (since it has been established that their are two (3, including Final wasteland) versions, due to the Shattered timelines.  And (importantly) I don't think that they are all "deaths".  I think that they mark great moments of change for the characters- some of which they don't survive. 

First up, the Freedom Five (with Tempest and Unity, since they become members in Shattered Timelines)

 

Legacy:

 a. (Finest Legacy) The moment when his daughter is killed and he goes bad.

 b. (Young Legacy)  The moment when her father is killed and she takes up the mantle.

Bunker:

a. (Bunker, 1st edition) The armor is shattered and broken, with Lt. Vance crawling out...my guess is that this refers to when he was killed by Iron Legacy.  We know Vance didn't survive in that timeline (which is why Fright train took over), and that he did directly challenge IL (he can be seen getting pounded on one of the cards) 

b. (Bunker, Enhanced Edition) Close-up of the armor head, riddled with bullet holes.  My guess is that this has to do with Bunker's as-yet unrevealed Nemesis.  My working theory is that his Nemesis (not counting Fright Train of the the V5, as I suspect they will be a group nemesis like Iron Legacy) is going to be some sort of rogue military commander- someone as skilled tactically as him, as well armed, and with lots of minions.   

c. (Bunker, Engine of War): An homage to Iron man, a moment of clarity.  Perhaps this is the moment when Fright train decided to own up to his past and started wearing the armor?  Perhaps this is the moment he decided he'd never outrun his past as a villain and quit?  


 

Tachyon

 a. (Regular Tach):  being immobilized by ice, with what looks like multiple villains in the background.  Best guess is that this is a reference to something that will happen in the Vengeance expansion.  

 b. (Team Leader Tach): A grim moment when she is brought down by Ambuscade.  It looks like he survived the purges of Iron Legacy...or maybe IL uses him as a bounty hunter for rogue supers.  We know that he's around for part of the time cataclysm (Marsquake in the Time cataclysm environment) and that TL Tach tries to save him in that environment.  Who knows if this is how the Shattered Timelines version dies, or if someone rescues her?     

 

Wraith

a. (regular wraith): because it says "here lies the Wraith", I'm guessing that this is one of those moments when she has been brought low by one of the many villains of Rook City and buried alive.  Its obvious that we haven't met all of the important villains in her life, so maybe one of them decided to put her in the ground and call it a night.  Either way, this is definitely a "down, but not out" moment.

b. (Rook city Wraith): the most ambiguous to me, because it shows the silhouettes of multiple unrevealed villains.  We can ID Ermine and Spite among them, but who is the half-and-half guy?  Or the beaky one?  I'm seeing a rook city villain team up in the future...   

c. (Price of Freedom):  Spite throwing her...somewhere. Into a vat of toxic chemicals? Maybe he's throwing her into the pit that the front depicts her fighting in... Its the Shattered Timeline that the heroes are trying to avoid, so its difficult to say when/how this happens. I'm going with “Spite throws her into the arena”.

 

Absolute Zero

a. (first edition) : the faceplate broken, with fumes leaking. This seems to reflect the “imbued frailty” card of the Realm of discord... best guess is that it represents the first moment that his tech truly fails him and he realizes how dependent on it he is.

b. (Enhanced Edition): This appears to depict a moment when the lab is in a state of emergency, and his usually cold living quarters have been de-frosted. It appears to be a desperate attempt to get to the suit.

I'm thinking that the Eaken-Rubendall labs will be attacked in vengeance, or this is a reference to his as-yet unrevealed Nemesis

c.  Elemental Wrath): Frozen in a glacier. Perhaps he loses control of his powers? The front of the card certainly suggests that he has gained some measure of ability to create ice... but how much control does he have? The front depicts a broken lab, so it can be guessed that he no longer has the easiest access to suit maintenance...

 

 

Unity:

a.  (regular unity): alone in the cube :( So sad! My thinking is that there is an agency we haven't seen yet devoted to studying superheroes (and villains). Maybe the Block is a front for superhero experimentation? Maybe Filter can't be trusted? Either way, this happens at some point. Unity is captured and has nothing around to use for golems. Maybe this represents a moment she decides to start incorporating tech into herself (to use in an emergency)- I very much agree with some of the others that....

b.  (Golem unity): represents Unity after she replaces herself bit-by-bit with tech. The flesh and blood Unity is indeed “Long dead”, but the mind and soul live on in the golem.

The hoisted up bones could represent the end for her...but it could also be the beginning. Perhaps Mr Fixer had a role in repairing her? Perhaps the bones are her reconstruction, rather than the final destination.  

 

Tempest: 

a. (regular tempest): injured and on the run:  Being pursued by FILTER? the moment of the crash landing?  Its unclear exactly what moment this depicts.   ecause he is depicted with the injured arm, it might be how he loses it...but I'm not sold on that idea.  the power on his promo card is called "sacrifice", which leads me to believe that he loses the arm of his own volition- he gives it up, chops it off, or has it taken to save someone or to free himself.  I'm guessing that this is the moment of crash landing on Earth.  

b. (Promo tempest)- Alone in the desert:  not entirely sure about this one.  I can't see any current cards that would lead to it.  Best guess is that this is a moment that hasn't happened yet, and will be referred to in upcoming expansions...or this just represents his worst fear.  Alone in a hostile world with no water, no relief, and no rescue in sight.  Or this could be a low point where he gives up hope for a moment before getting back up and moving on.  Like all the shattered timelines promos, its difficult to interpret!

NI
Nielzabub
2013-05-10 23:43 UTC
#45

Christopher has confirmed what Elemental Wrath's incapacitated side is. You can read it on the wiki, or earlier in this thread I think.

BR
Braithwhite
2013-05-11 00:48 UTC
#46

well, I wasn't that far off on that one.

PH
Phantom5613
2013-05-11 05:19 UTC
#47

In reference to the 'Price of Freedom' Wraith's incapassitated side, I actually think that's just before Spite breaks Wraith's back. Or at least attemps to.

I suggest this because in Batman comics(I couldn't tell you which one. I'm a terrible comic-book nerd. :'( ) Bane, a villian who gets super-strength from a special drug(sound familiar?), breaks Batman's back in the very same way. Picks him up and slams his spine on his knee.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-05-11 14:06 UTC
#48

Hmm. So this could be Unity's nemesis! Interesting…

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-05-11 14:29 UTC
#49

I really like your guesstimates, Braithwhite.  I have two comments:

 

1)  Does anyone know if the first edition incapacitated art is available somewhere?  I'm an EE adopter, so I've never seen that art but it sounds interesting.

 

2)  I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one that thinks Fright Train and Proletariat aren't Bunker and Absolute Zero's true, respective nemeses.  Storywise those are two of my favorite heroes, so I was hoping for nemeses with a little more oomph.

BR
Braithwhite
2013-05-11 15:05 UTC
#50

I posted this in a similar thread on BGG earlier, but heres why I think that Bunker and AZ will have their own, individual nemeses:

Vengeance is a team- it makes sense that each villain is "matched" to their counterpart on the Freedom Five, but my guess is that they will be a collective nemesis (like Iron Legacy) , and that we have yet to really see the Nemesis of Bunker and AZ. 


Here is why i think that (for Bunker and AZ), we have to wait a bit longer in the storyline- please bear with me, because it requires some explanation.

Infernal Relics and Shattered timelines has seen the forwarding of (or at least the reveal) of a few key plot events- Legacy and his daughter , Visionary, The formation of a new team (Haka, Tempest, Adept, Fanatic, and the unknown hero in red and gold), as well as some major character development in terms of Fanatic and Ra, both of whom faced defeat and came back with new purpose.

Vengeance looks like it is shaping up to be a transition point in terms of the plotline. While Shattered timelines was a glimpse of what COULD happen...Vengeance may be what DOES happen. 

Its going to be the first time a group of disparate villains joins together to face the heroes on equal terms. Its possible that the Freedom Five might not all make it. Or they might not all be able to continue afterwards.

The setup for Bunker and AZ to have Nemeses:

Thematically, Bunker and AZ have been supporting characters in the cast. 
AZ is a prisoner of the technology that allows him to function in a normal environment. Its fairly clear that he is a reluctant hero at best- or that despite his heroic deeds he is nursing a core of regret and anger. Dude's got issues, is what I'm saying.
The incpacitated side of his cards hints at a dire event- some time when he can't get to the suit, or when he starts to lose control even with it. 

Bunker has been the steady right hand of the team for awhile now. He's the workhorse, the backbone, the one who chugs away in the background getting things done. We don't know much about his ongoing story, just that he's got the potential to really step up and lead the team. We also know he's willing to give everything for the job- in the alternate timeline, he stood up to the injustice of Iron Legacy and paid the price.

So: In order for them to have nemeses, we need to push them to the spotlight. 

My guess is that AZ's nemesis will be all about his struggle with control and technology. I suspect it will be tech-related. Someone who (plotwise) can push him to the brink. Perhaps a cyborg, or a brain in battle suit. Or an AI. something that can subvert what he relies on, or is a twisted reflection of his own conflict. AZ is one of my favorites, the first hero I used, and what got me hooked with the game- so I'm very hopeful that his nemesis will be equally awesome.

As for Bunker, before we can get a real nemesis for him, he needs to step up and really claim the spotlight. We need to see him take charge and be the brilliant leader that we KNOW that he can be. Bunker is thematically ripe for a nemesis when he is in a leadership role- after all, leading and figuring out how to survive (and get everyone else out)of a dire situation is KEY to his storyline. My guess is that we're going to see his nemesis once we see Young Legacy starting out, when Bunker has to take point as the leader while she adjusts. 

Maybe it will be a rogue military commander, or a spy agency gone bad (I don't trust FILTER...). I don't think it will be Fright Train in the end- he's too thuggish. He's muscle, and what Bunker needs is someone who can challenge him on the mental level. Piloting the suit is an act of supreme multi-tasking- his nemesis has to be equally adept at moving pieces around. I'm guessing there will be lots of minions (to feed the supply drop), with a brilliant, aggressive leader behind them.

RO
Ronway
2013-05-11 16:10 UTC
#51

The reason why I think Bunker and AZ will have thier own nemesis is because it wouldn't make sense for them to be the only characters to not have one.

EG
eggroll20xd6
2013-05-11 16:22 UTC
#52

While I like your idea Braithwhite, I have to disagree with you as to believing Fright Train is not cut out to be Bunker's nemesis.  If you look at FT, you mention that he is thuggish and all muscle.  The truth is, Bunker is very much like his character's inspiration, Iron Man.  If you take away the armor, FT very much is a threat to Tyler Vance.  Tyler reminds me of the recent portrayl of Steve Rogers in Captain America.  Before Roger's transformation with the supersyrum, he's just a scrawny kid with heart that no one takes too seriously.  Tyler Vance also is not much to begin with, but given the suit, he fights hard for the Freedom Five.  Heck, I think of the card that I believe is in Wagner Mars Base where you see Fright Train bursting through the wall to find a recharging Bunker.  With the suit's limitations of needing power, anytime he is on mission and needing to power down (which doesn't happen game-wise, but could happen story wise), he is succeptable to attack from any number of things.  He may have combat training, but he is human.  The same could be said for the Wraith, but hers is an architype that not only uses martial arts, but is able to create weapons from her surroundings (hence my favorite card, Impromptu Weapon).  

 

As for AZ, I am thinking that Polariat is probably his nemesis, but if they don't go that route, I would love to see something elemental like Ra or Tempest be his nemesis.  We already have fire from Ra and wind/lightning from Tempest, so the only other elements left are earth which is really Akash'buta and (jokingly for 80s reference) heart, but I don't know how you would do that unless Ryan's wife survived the car crash and essentially becomes his nemesis.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-05-11 18:06 UTC
#53

Glibness aside, I agree with Ronway; you can't make them the nemesis of part of a villain team, just like we haven't assumed that Iron Legacy is Unity's only nemesis. It wouldn't really make much sense.

As for AZ's nemesis, I get the feeling it's going to have something to do with the guy who killed his wife...

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-05-12 01:04 UTC
#54

 

This is the only point I really want to disagree with. Fright Train worked in the same unit as Vance, in fact they were equals and rivals until the battle where Vance was promoted and eventually became Bunker. Also Fright Train eventually becomes Bunker using an older suit. The guy doesn't look like a brainaic, and Vance might be smarter, but he does have the potential to challenge Vance on a strategic level.

 

PLus, the strategic element really doesn't play in very much to Bunker's deck IMO, he plays more thuggish than genius whenever I've heard or seen him played.

EV
EvanDan55
2013-05-12 01:51 UTC
#55

Here's a pseudo-riddle relating to the whole question of Unity. I'm on the boat of the idea that Unity started to augment herself with robotic parts every time she was injured, and eventually, her biological body stopped functioning and she was only being sustained by the robotic parts of her. Now, if she replaced her entire body over time with robotic parts until finally there was nothing left of her biological body...

Is that thing still Unity?

And I'm also on board with the idea of Con having Unity's conciousness. Con's origins haven't been revealed, or who Con's personality is based on, but who else in the Sentinels world talks like Con? Unity and Con have the same manner of speaking, so that just furthers my belief.

EG
eggroll20xd6
2013-05-12 15:56 UTC
#56

Looking at the Golem Unity incapacitated side, I can see why everyone assumes it is Unity proper just cybered out and I understand why Christopher in the Shattered Timelines kickstarter said it was a golem that thinks it is the long dead Unity.  I guess it kind of comes down to symantics in a way.  Looking at the incap side, you see the skeleton and no skin which means whatever was once human there is long since past.  However, the lights are on all over the thing as it is connected to power sources.  Being a technopath, Unity could have constructed more and more body parts by just thinking about them and voila, they are built in place of lost ones.

 

The way I see things, Unity died, but the robotic parts still were able to use her powers to sustain robotic life and wear maybe a synthetic skin ala terminator.  If all that was needed was the knowlege of how to construct things with a mind, technically all that was needed was her brain.  Her body may not function, but the brain is the hub of the power.  This is just speculation on my part, but when it comes down to it, original Unity is gone, Golem Unity is just a golem, and as for Con...I think it is someone else that would be a version 4.0.  Though I don't think Con is evil, but definitely ambiguous.

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-05-13 00:34 UTC
#57

The discussion of Unity reminded me of this paradox I read about a couple of years ago:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

I don't have anything meaningful to add other than I feel like if I read something about this paradox on one of the nerdy websites I frequent, it's probable the game's creators have too.

KE
ketigid
2013-05-13 09:41 UTC
#58

Also, Christopher has said that we've all met Con before...

KE
ketigid
2013-05-21 03:01 UTC
#59

Given how the art of Don't Dismiss Anything matched Expatriette's incapacitated side quite well, I'm guessing that Expatriette is going to come back stronger after her 'defeat'. So, we'll likely get an Expatriette Promo in the future. I'm interested to see how Team GtG is going to address the 'weak' Expatriette issue? Or will they ignore the noises and design the Promo in the best way that fits the canon (i.e. thematically)?

NI
Nielzabub
2013-05-21 03:42 UTC
#60

Emigrant's Song is credited as Ex-Pat's first appearance. The Ex-Pat we currently know is probably after whatever fight she was just in.