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Freedom Five HQ?

71 posts · 6273 views · started 2013-03-28 10:17 UTC
BA
Basarin
2013-03-28 10:17 UTC
#1

Just been wondering: does the Freedom Four/Five have an official HQ of its own?

The annual implies that they met somewhere to start with, but it's not exactly specified where. And naturally since there aren't actually other comics in circulation, we won't quite know for sure outside of word from the creators. :P

Do they have an actual central HQ they meet in? Or are meetings just an ad hoc affair with whatever is available/provided by allies?

CE
celette482
2013-03-28 12:48 UTC
#2

Not that I have any actual knowledge, but in the fic I am writing, they have one in or around Megalopolis. And since heroes in Sentinels comics seem to be more willing to create momentary team-ups in the face of extreme threats, I figure the non Freedom Four/Five at least have access and will shuffle through on occasion (at least the ones who are the chummy sort). For example, I'm pretty sure that even if they aren't technically part of the Freedom Five, Unity and Young Legacy are there. A lot.

The basis for my supposition comes primarily from Miss Information's deck- Unity swears she didn't put the fork in the microwave, Tempest is called out, even Ex-Patriette (who's the least likely in my book) gets something, etc. My fan conclusion: she goes after them because she knows them because they've all come by at some point or another.

To compare, I'd guess it would be like the Avengers Mansion/ Tower, and less like a Justice League floating space station. Part HQ with employees, part fire house for people to stay in, part fraternity house for people to hang out together.

VY
Vyolynce
2013-03-28 13:08 UTC
#3

Plus you have to consider the fact that they're government-funded. Having a central base of operations (most likely in DC itself) seems like the least of the strings that would be attached to that.

RO
Ronway
2013-03-28 13:11 UTC
#4

Also they have an assistant Amina Twain (Miss Information) and on her character card features her at a deck with an FV icon behind her. So that seems to be a good indicator.

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-03-28 15:52 UTC
#5

Doesn't Miss Information's deck have a card with a shot of the base? It's the one where she is in her villain garb dragging tachyon by the hair and there is a big cliff like structure with FV carved into it, and a door. It looked like the hero base to me

CE
celette482
2013-03-28 16:00 UTC
#6

YES. So there's definitely a base (why else WOULD they have a receptionist if they didn't have some place where they'd need to receive?), the question becomes where.

 

And also how they manage to avoid having it blown up by Baron Blade on a regular basis. Maybe they don't.

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2013-03-28 17:41 UTC
#7

 

Moreso than even Avengers Tower/Mansion, I feel like the FV HQ would be like the Baxter Building or Four Freedoms Plaza from Fantastic Four.  

Aminia would be running the front desk, a la an evil version of Pepper Potts...

LY
lynkfox
2013-03-28 17:42 UTC
#8

super hero Fiat on not getting blow up. only traitors from the inside can blow up superhero bases (ala miss information)

and she is more than the receptionist. she’s a Personal assistant to all the heroes that comes through… imagine that he he’ll a pa of a major ceo goes through and multiply that by 5 at least + a factor for dealing with supernatural stuff… now wonder she snapped.

JA
jagarciao
2013-03-28 18:02 UTC
#9

...especially since they LET HER DIE!!!

BA
Basarin
2013-03-28 20:50 UTC
#10

This more than anything is a hint that I need to get the mini expansions. -_- They're cheap on their own, sure, but shipping to Hawaii is a whopping 10-15 dollars. Yikes!

Due to that, I wasn't aware of the content of Miss Information's deck, or the fact a good chunk refers to a supergroup base. I'll have to invest and check that out.

Still, if it's left vague enough for the players to interpret, works for me! I'm planning on writing narrative AARs out of future games I play; what I love about this game is the fact that the gameplay makes it very easy to visualize a fight scene in your head. Until I get a better idea of the world's canon (read: get more expansion packs! :P ), I'd probably (to start with) have them meet in an ad hoc manner near or at the emergency site. Meeting at a command post/medical refuge in Megalopolis while Omnitron is rampaging wouldn't be a stretch...

RA
Rabit
2013-03-28 22:08 UTC
#11

I think my favorite part of that is that she thinks they let her die - we don't actually know if that was what she "saw" or if she just snapped for some reason and went nuts, suddenly believing in an alternate reality that doesn't/won't exist.

Or even better: Someone else manipulated her and made her believe in the alternate reality…

:wink:

LY
lynkfox
2013-03-28 22:31 UTC
#12

or she only saw a /portion/ of the future and right after the vision ends, Legacy pulls her from t he rubble.

 

OR because she went all crazy and snapped she actually creates the situation where they, unknowingly, let her die... 

 

 

TIMMMMMEEEEEYYY WHIIMMMEEEEYYYY!!!!

CE
celette482
2013-03-28 22:48 UTC
#13

and now I'm humming the Dr Who theme song to myself.

It does seem somewhat dangerous, if you are worried that you will be left to die by your superhero bosses, to try to kill them first. What if while she has them out on a distraction an actual emergency comes up (see my post above about Baron Blade)? And they didn't leave her to die so much as she dies because she's sent them on wild goose chases.

KO
Koey
2013-03-30 16:32 UTC
#14

Sounds like a possible location deck they can do :)

 

Hopefully they had that plan as a part of a future exapansion

CH
Churcher
2013-03-31 17:01 UTC
#15

I would love to see that in a location.  Especially some kind of Danger Room-esque area.  But, it has been confirmed in the offical comic that there is a Freedom Five HQ.  http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/comic?page=13  Last panel, Legacy speaks.  Additionally, they have a computer that Wraith wants...

BA
Basarin
2013-04-01 07:34 UTC
#16

I just read that part, good catch! Still doesn't say WHERE it is...I'm just going to assume Megalopolis?

IR
Ironic
2013-04-01 19:11 UTC
#17

Geographically, Sentinel Comics seems to have more in common with DC than Marvel - that is to say, instead of one city where over 90% of all heroes ever operate (Marvel's New York), each hero has a signature base of operations (Legacy gets Megalopois, the Rook City crowd Gotham it up together, Nightmist has Arkham, and so on).  So I assume that, like the Justice League, the F5 have a base which is not in or near any major cities - either hidden in some scenic locale (perhaps Cheyenne Mountain Complex, due to government funding and Tachyon being a Stargate fan?), or in space.

 

In my own games, I assume the latter, and use Wagner Mars Base to represent battles there.

CH
Christopher
2013-04-01 20:27 UTC
#18

Naw, the F5 headquarters is totally in Megalopolis.

AWAY!

*smoke bombs*

IR
Ironic
2013-04-01 20:43 UTC
#19

Heh, can't be right all the time - thanks for the information!

(But are people allowed to use smoke bombs in Megalopolis?  I thought that Rook City made its money through tourism by legalizing items such as Smoke Bombs which controlled substances elsewhere in the country - it's the Las Vegas of ninjas.)

Ironic

IR
Ironic
2013-04-10 01:52 UTC
#20

On a semi-related note, does anyone have any catchy names they use for the extended Freedom Five "family"?  Unity, Nightmist, and to a lesser extent, Mr. Fixer are all associated with the team, but they don't get counted among the Five.  "The Freedom Four to Eight" is just awkward and cumbersome, but I don't really have anything better.  My first instinct would be the Freedom Force, but as everyone knows, that's a totally different hero team focused around an indestructible man with a patriotic legacy and a sullen man trapped in powered armor to contain his powers, who are warned of an alien invasion by an otherworldly visitor and fight against a superpowered mobster.  Or, I guess, it's just the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants working for the government or something.  Point is, the name's taken.

There's lots of names meaning "group," I suppose, but something like the Freedom Legion, or The Freedom Corps, or The Freedom Coterie does lose the alliteration which normally would be tragically murdered by Iron Legacy as part of his drive for conquest.  The only word there other than "Force" I can think of would make them "The Freedom Faction," but that's awfully bland.

On the other hand, their logo reads FV (back in the day, I suppose it was the far less striking FIV?), so maybe something playing off that as a letter, rather than a Roman Numeral?  The Freedom... Victors?  You see my problem.

Ironic

P.S. I suppose that "Freedom Family" plays off of what I called them at the outset, but that's just not a deeply thematic name for a paid, government-regulated group.

BL
Blossercubbles
2013-04-18 16:05 UTC
#21

Man, Freedom Force is a fantastic game. I've missed it, so thanks for reminding me of it again! I have it somewhere, in on or around cyberspace or my other computer.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-21 05:17 UTC
#22

Good times, indeed.  Though I could never get into the sequel, due to its contradiction of my ironclad headcanon that Time Master is Man-Bot trapped in and endless cycle.  A silly  reason, but there you have it.

For the record, I am currently calling the Freedom Five+ the "Freedom Phalanx."  A little awkward, but perhaps it will grow on me.

Ironic 

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-04-21 20:35 UTC
#23

Freedom Phalanx is the name of the primary superteam from the late, lamented City of Heroes.

And I was just starting to get over the loss… :slightly_frowning_face:

ZA
Zalrus9
2013-04-21 20:49 UTC
#24

Do you think they could be called the Sentinels of the Multiverse? You know, since some of them are from another reality or another world? 

 

Eh, never mind. That would be silly...

IR
Ironic
2013-04-22 03:30 UTC
#25

The bios use "Sentinels of the Multiverse" to refer to the heroes of the setting as a whole - The Freedom Etc, The Prime Wardens, and crazy loners like Ra, Expateriette, and Chrono-Ranger.  It'd just feel awkward, to me, applying it to a more limited group.

ZA
Zalrus9
2013-04-22 10:58 UTC
#26

 

That may be true, but Miss Information's card "Insider Knowledge" shows that the Freedom Five has files on all heroes, including crazy loners such as Expatriette. Sure, the Freedom Five may just have an extensive knowledge about everything, not just thier own heroes and villians, but still, those loners help out the Freedom Five all the time, apperently. They help every time I play a game…

 

 

GR
Greywind
2013-04-22 19:58 UTC
#27

Well, as Iron Legacy shows, from time to time you do have to take one of your own down. Pretty sure the Avengers keep files on allies as well as enemies, and we know for a fact Batman does.

FO
Foote
2013-04-22 20:19 UTC
#28

S.H.E.I.L.D. holds that information in the Marvel world, not nessesarily the Avengers themselves. The Justice League proper does not store such information either and it remains the single greatest advantage Batman holds over just about everyone. 

I do make the large assumption though that Wraiths mega computer is very similar to Batmans and is full of juicy information regarding the strengths and weaknesses of various heros and villains in the SotM universe. Difference here is that the mega computer is housed at the FV headquarters instead of in a cave under her mansion home where Miss Info had full access to it.

GR
Greywind
2013-04-23 01:59 UTC
#29

Before the days of SHIELD having full access, the Avengers kept that information and shared it with a few others, like the FF.

CR
Craig
2013-04-23 02:24 UTC
#30

Let us not forget Professor Xavier's rather creepy files.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-23 02:34 UTC
#31

This is somewhat off-topic, but I just don't buy Wraith as a Batman analogue in a number of ways, and this is one of them.  Her world was never so totally upended as to instil Batman levels of paranoia or determination in her, and we haven't seen any quotes or card art playing up that side of her, either.  And we know she's not the epic tactician Bruce Wayne is, since Bunker is the Freedom Whatever's main strategy guy.

Really, if anyone has files on every metahuman in the Sentinel Comics universe, it's F.I.L.T.E.R.  I shall therefore assume that Miss Information used the FV's security clearance to hack into classified government files, most notably the  F.I.L.T.E.R. database.

Ironic

FO
Foote
2013-04-23 13:21 UTC
#32

So what makes her mega computer so mega? I'm sure it is not just to play the biggest game of minesweeper ever. I don't think it's a stretch to think that computer holds rather valuable intel on the Heros at the very least. 

I see what you are saying about Wraith vs Batman, but I think these comparisons are welcomed if not encouraged. There is nothing about her that doesn't scream Batman. Even the silhouettes of her enemies (incap of rook city promo) are all obviously bat villain clones. 

Anyway, doesnt the mega computer belong more to the FV than Wraith? And do you think that the FV could just access FILTER files? I imagine that FILTER is no strong ally of the FV.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-23 14:37 UTC
#33

Wraith is certainly meant to be a Batman pastiche.  I just personally think she's a non-functional one.  Her origin is not severe enough, nor her separation from her old life great enough, to make her work as more than a Green Arrow pastiche, in my opinion.  I know that I am disagreeing with both the makers of the game (the ultimate authority on the subject, from any objective standard) and many members of the community, but here we are.

The Mega Computer would probably have... lots of criminal forensic data?  Ways to monitor communications in Rook City, and probably elsewhere?  You know, the stuff the Bat Computer has which Batman uses against actual villains, who he tracks down and then fights, since it'sonly against other heroes that he ever seems to have the Ultimate Countermeasures Of Effortless Victory.

Ironic

DR
Drakossozh
2013-04-23 15:09 UTC
#34

Ultimate Countermeasures of Effortless Victory got me :)) Ever seen Justice League: Doom? There you go. It also now strikes me as strange that, against his teammates he has a plan to take them all down eeasily, but against villains, the people one would think he should have plans for, he...doesnt.

 

Anyway, on the point of the Mega Computer, I always just thought of it as 'mega' it terms of sheer computing power, being able to predict, at the least, environment patterns, as well as being able to detect and warn the heroes about external threats (hence, the damage reduction against environment), and not so much about the files it keeps, etc.

FO
Foote
2013-04-23 15:22 UTC
#35

I agree with you guys. But I don't think it's a stretch to think that computer has a wide range of capabilities and uses. 

In other words, why wouldn't it have that kind of data on it? We know it has info on the Heros, that's how Miss Info could screw with them so easily. You think it wouldn't have villain info as well?

Wraith is no Bruce Wayne, agreed, but she is absolutely smart enought to know the value of having that information available 

RE
Reckless
2013-04-23 21:22 UTC
#36

I've always thought of The Wraith as "What if Peter Parker was Tony Stark dresssed up as Batman?"

CH
ChocolatChip
2013-04-23 23:45 UTC
#37

This!  I think this embodies what The Wraith truly is, if you compare her to mainstream super heroes.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-24 01:24 UTC
#38

It's a better comparison, to be sure.  Still, Wraith remains one of the heroes I feel that I have the weakest "grasp" on - the only other comprable hero is Haka, who is specifically designed to give you a poor feel for his personality.

Ironic

RE
Reckless
2013-04-24 21:12 UTC
#39

I dunno, I get the feeling that people really pigeonhole Fanatic quite consistenly.  I'd like to think that there is more to her character than "You offended JEEEEEEZUSSSSS!  I'ma kill you!"  I mean, she bailed on the nuns who raised her because she didn't agree with their passivity, so it's not like she's some bible-thumping "follow the rules or else" kind of character, from what I can tell.  I'd really like to have more insight on how she interacts with others.

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-24 22:14 UTC
#40

I always picture her kung fu-ing her way through a horde of Gloomy's zombies and exclaiming

"I kick ass for The Lord!'"

GR
Greywind
2013-04-24 23:22 UTC
#41

I picture Fanatic being cast from a mold similar to Castiel.

"I am a soldier of Heaven."

CH
ChocolatChip
2013-04-25 00:29 UTC
#42

If anyone's read The Dresden Files then they'll get this reference.  I picture her as a female Michael Carpenter, with wings.

PY
Pydro
2013-04-25 00:31 UTC
#43

I can see that.

CE
celette482
2013-04-25 02:49 UTC
#44

YES. Absolution is totally excalibur. Totally.

CH
ChocolatChip
2013-04-25 03:23 UTC
#45

Would that make Apostate kind of like a Nicodemus?  Mr. Fixer can be Shiro!!

IR
Ironic
2013-04-25 17:09 UTC
#46

Fixer is okay and all, but he's about ten orders of magnitude shy of being as cool as Shiro.

And Michael is a great lens through which to view paladin-ey characters, but I just don't see any evidence that Fanatic has that sort of restraint or moderation.  Sure, she left her Convent due to their inaction - and also the fact that they cast her out after she stood up in the middle of a service and declared herself to be God's will incarnate, which they viewed as blasphemy.  Maybe you agree, and maybe you don't, but one does have to admit: it's a deeply prideful act.  And it's not like the disapproval of the people who raised her changed her mind: her next move was to spend a year in a sewer, mastering combat, so she could stab people and drop them off buildings - I don't think Michael kills humans, save for ones literally posessed by demons who refuse chances to surrender.

Now, maybe that's not howFanatic does things in your head.  As discussed before, the cards leave room for interpretation.  But if the Fanatic I see had the personality of a Dresden Files character, it would be Donald Morgan.  She's certainly on the side of the good guys, but intolerant, prone to snap judgements, and far too prone to resolving every situation by reaching for her sword.

Ironic

P.S. At least, that's how I figure she used to be.  When her convictions get shaken and she begins seeking redemption, I imagine she mellows out and matures a good deal - enough to even join a team made of people who follow other religions* and prohibit killing.  Indeed, the potential for such growth is a major reason I hold on to the notion of a less-sympathetic Fanatic at the outset.

 

* No, there is no canonical evidence of Fanatic being intolerant towards other faiths.  But coem on - many people who don't ever dress as Crusaders and proclaim themselves to be the Lord's Judgement on Earth would find some degree of theological consternation in working with the Prime Wardens.  Maori spiritualism and even a Moorcockian Order/Chaos divide (which teaches that the Earth is an avatar of destruction which hates us) should be no harder for a reasonable person to accept than any major modern faith, but when the list then includes self=asserted Egyptian divinity, the sacred union of the Great Sea mother and Father as presided over by the High Priest of Storms who shall one day awaken from their slumber beneath the waves and usher in a paradise for all children of Maernia, and whatever the heck Red And Gold Guy believes, it could lead to some awkward moments around the holidays.

PH
Phantom5613
2013-04-25 17:21 UTC
#47

Strangely enough, if the speculation is right and Fanatic kills anyone, she's breaking one of the Ten Comandments. Which is strange to me, but since she considers herself the Will of God she thinks she can kill on his behalf...

FO
Foote
2013-04-25 17:23 UTC
#48

+1. I this is exactly how I see Fanatic as well

CH
ChocolatChip
2013-04-25 19:05 UTC
#49

Ironic, I like your comparison of Fanatic to Morgan.  I'm going to think of her like that from now on.

 

Edit:  Also, whether you think Fixer can hold a candle to Shiro or not I like Fixer a lot more when I think of him like Shiro.

GR
Greywind
2013-04-25 19:09 UTC
#50

Dead?

AR
arenson9
2013-04-25 21:03 UTC
#51

 

Though often translated as 'Thou Shalt Not Kill', the actual commandment is 'Thou Shalt Not Murder'.

RE
Reckless
2013-04-25 21:41 UTC
#52

And murder is unjustified killing.  So, Fanatic would remain theologically consistent if that's the case.

I'd just rather assume that Fanatic embodies something more than a contrarian, moralistic, high-and-mighty stick in the mud.  It just seems so...boring.  I want another Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pride, or Ben Grimm when it comes to a character with strong theological convictions.  Not The Purifiers.

CE
celette482
2013-04-25 21:48 UTC
#53

Maybe this is just me putting my own gloss on her, but I don't think she's Purifier. I see her more as having a sort of "self-sacrificing, but by all that I hold holy the REST of you are getting out of this, except for YOU bad guys you're going DOWN" attitude and that's why I liked Michael. He definitely doesn't think Dresden makes good choices.. ever.. but he will move heaven and earth to keep Dresden and anyone else who comes under his aegis safe. And that's where I'd put Fanatic. She feels confident that her life has a higher purpose, so she's bold and unswerving in her willingness to put herself in danger to protect others. And that is, to me, a fascinating take on a religious character.

RE
Reckless
2013-04-25 21:52 UTC
#54

I'm all for that.  I'm just tired of the "And then Fanatic got in a theological argument with THIS character and told them why they're wrong and killed a bunch of people for not saying 'bless you' when she sneezed."  I like characters with strong conviction and a belief in something beyond themselves.  It's what makes a lot of heroes great.  I've just noticed a lot of people falling back on Fanatic being an axe-mudering Jesus freak rather than a convicted, self-sacrificing person of faith.

PH
Phantom5613
2013-04-25 22:04 UTC
#55

Ah, alright. And I think that Fanatic would probably have studied that particular writing of the Comandments at the convent.

GR
Greywind
2013-04-25 22:24 UTC
#56

Added that Michael has certain protections when he's on an assigned mission. Protections that he lacks when he's doing a favor for Harry.

CE
celette482
2013-04-25 23:39 UTC
#57

Added that Michael has certain protections when he's on an assigned mission. Protections that he lacks when he's doing a favor for Harry.

 

Yeah, we can't forget that for all we know, she's right to a certain extent, and her abilities to do radiant damage are tied to some sort of higher/otherworldly power. We're told that she weakened when she lost faith, so maybe she has some sort of "you're only as strong as your conviction and willingness to do good"?

I don't think she's an axe-murdering Jesus freak at all (though I see why others interpret her that way). She just thinks/ has some strangely convincing evidence that she's been tasked with a slightly more... forecful calling.

The violence is inherent in the system. (help, help) ANYWAY- Legacy punches people... for FREEDOM.

ZA
Zalrus9
2013-04-26 01:57 UTC
#58

As a rule, I don't think heroes kill at all. If they did, whenever we beat a villian, they wouldn't have to fight them again. Remember, this is Silver Age kind of stuff; so Fanatic might rough some people up, and they may be bruised, they may be permanantly broken, but they will never really be killed. 

Though this may change if we have a Wolverine-kind of hero. I hear it's hard to be non-lethal with sharp claws...

 

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-04-26 03:15 UTC
#59

One thing about Fanatic that might add some depth to her is the card art on Apostate's Remorseless Provocation. It's the one where Apostate blasts fire through a guy, possibly the detective from Rook city? Fanatic is desperately rushing, sword in hand and fist glowing, to save him. It could just be the saving the innocent thing, but what if Fanatic does have a civilian life and this is a boyfriend, or at least very good friend. I have nothing to base this off except Apostate wants to cause her as much pain as possible, and I doubt Fanatic wears her armor 24/7. I'm sure you could find her doing good works under her real name, after all soldiers can't be on a mission all the time.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-26 05:33 UTC
#60

I often wonder about Fanatic having a secret identity - as with the "dominant" personality of Ra, it's a neat little question I've yet to see any canon allusions to.

Zalrus, SotM heroes kill people.  See the Hero Personalities thread for the details, but there is canon confirmation for Expatriette, Fanatic, and Chrono-Ranger killing.  The big name villains no doubt escape using the same tricks that big name villains have used to cheat death in countless media, comics included.

I do not think that all heroes with strong theological convictions should be intolerant or violent about it.  But I also like characters with flaws and growing room, and ways for heroes to be distinct from each other in outlook.  SotM continuity has its share of saintlike Michaels (Legacy, Haka) and quiet-but-determined Ben Grimms (Mr. Fixer, Bunker) already.  This is something new, expanding the range of the stories.  However, I think we all know where each other stand on Fanatic's personality now - there's cases to be made for multiple interpretations, and no reason for each player not to picture her the way they prefer.

Ironic

NI
Nielzabub
2013-04-26 05:55 UTC
#61

The part where I have to draw the line is the fact that there is a clear difference between hero and villain cards. Iron Legacy is partly a villain card because he's willing to kill anyone who gets in the way in his pursuit of justice. Even if Fanatic, Ex-Pat, and CR kill some baddies, there has to be a line they don't cross that makes it so other heroes don't take them down. Also, nobody's mentioned that the Argent blows up a whole spaceship in Cedistic Dissonant. That's a whole lot of dead aliens. That guy must be really dark.

IR
Ironic
2013-04-26 15:56 UTC
#62

I presume you to be joking, but seriously, that is a massive abuse of the old "aliens don't count" rule.  I mean, it's openly established that many of Voss' servants are both sentient and unwilling.  Tempest and the Adept must have had some awkward silences over dinner.

And I'm not saying that the killing heroes are just randomly murdering people left and right like Iron Legacy.  Well, except Expatriette.  She is clearly a 90s hero, from an era when even Optimus Prime would gun down surrendering enemies.  I imagine that Expatriette was created with a similar attitude, and after the tone of comics shifted again, people just tactfully didn't mention her hundreds of barely-justified murders (see also: Cable), while she contented herself with killing the occasional D-List villain or semi-named mook during teamups, and may or may not have had a more violent - but still less so than in the 90s - solo book (see also: The Punisher).

As for the other two, Chrono-Ranger is mostly notable for enigmatically showing up to destroy something very non-human, which almost nobody would object to, such as Akash-Bhuta or the Loch Ness Monster.  However, we know that Con has instructed him to kill at least one human "on sight," so I would guess that while he doesn't do it often, he has killed a (very bad, and known to cause big problems if left alive) human or two.  Eventually, other heroes must have seen him do this, and gotten very angry.  Whether any given hero would accept Chrono-Ranger's reasons for doing it would be a great character study.

Then Fanatic.  In this case, I will admit that my evidence is sketchiest, since all we have is some brutal-looking art, and a secondhand account of her killing some (sentient) aliens.  But my take is that she usually responds to sinners with fire-and-brimstone speeches, augmented by the Laser Beams of Chastisement (no, seriously, what exactly is she doing in Brutal Censure?), but really bad ones get dropped from great heights instead.  Once again, other heroes are probably uneasy about this, and since I assume she is both more open and more frequent with her killing of people, they might view her as just another villain... if she were operating in the United States.  However, my read is that Fanatic is still operating out of Lima, which has some troubling trends of police corruption, so on her first visit to the inevitable core of a superhero universe which is the USA, she could be narrowly stopped from killing some total scumbag (probably by Legacy, though in my group's play, it wound up being Bunker instead) and after explaining herself, would reach a reluctant agreement with the Freedom Variable that they would support her as long as she didn't go to far, and she wouldn't kill people on their "turf" (or anywhere with functioning law and order).

Ironic

P.S. It just occured to me that Fanatic might concievably be a product of the 90s, too - openly theology-based heroes were thin on the ground, before Spawn and Dawn and so forth in that era.

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-04-26 16:39 UTC
#63

I would like to note that while we see Fanatic flying up with a human, and the effect of the card is the destruction of a target, this does not neccesarily mean she kills him. She could drop him in a dumpster, or on top of a tree, or on the roof of a building. Batman threatens to throw people off buildings all the time, but he never does. How card effects translate into "real-world" actions is a little sketchy. Destroying targets could be interpretted many different ways.

 

Also, on the point of the aliens, if they are killed (could be an entirely automated ship after all, or the escape pods are spared, or super magic, ect.) that could be seen as an act of mercy. You can't go back after getting a lobotomy and there is no reason to assume whatever Voss does is not equally irreversible. He's turned peaceful people into soulless war machines, but destroying those machines is better than locking them up for the rest of their unnatural lives. Actually, aren't the psi-weavers really just brain zombies, I think that's what the flavor text says.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-04-26 17:38 UTC
#64

Destroying a target can be interpretted in many different ways, but dealing damage to another target equal to the health of the destroyed target? To me, the intention of that can only be using them as a projectile weapon.

CH
ChocolatChip
2013-04-26 17:52 UTC
#65

I've seen Spider-Man knock two people out before by hitting one of the guys with the other guy.  It didn't kill them, but it did take them out of the fight.

PH
Phantom5613
2013-04-26 22:16 UTC
#66

ah, discussions on comic book characters killing each other. Thanks again, Iron Age comics!

NI
Nielzabub
2013-04-27 08:57 UTC
#67

Brutal Censure could be her cleansing someone of evil which could explain why it's radiant damage and why it damages villain targets. Also, for all we know in Final Dive, Fanatic is saving that person from certain death. I think the point of the art is to emphasise her ability to fly and how it can help dominate a battlefield. The theme of Fanatic's deck seems to be self sacrifice. Even Wrathful Retribution requires discarding cards and having taken lots of damage in order for it to be effective. The mechanics of her deck don't seem to indicate someone who thinks they are above the mortal laws of morality. She damages herself to help out her team.

As for Crono Ranger and Ex-Pat, I don't think they kill if they don't have to. On the card Rule From the Front, she is even pleading with Iron Legacy to stop and that his mindless violence isn't going to solve anything. Again, the world of SOTM has a very clear who is evil and who is good split, and even the darker heroes are still heroes.

I think if these characters were really functioning under the mindset that they could do whatever they wanted as long as it's in the pursuit of justice, they would've joined up with Iron Legacy and thanked heavens that he finally came to his senses and started doing what needed to be done.

CH
Chaosmancer
2013-04-30 06:11 UTC
#68

Not to respark anything, but I was looking through a whole lot of cards and came across Fanatic's "Final Dive" and Megalopolis' "Hostage Situation". Am I completely crazy, or does that guy look to be the same guy? I think it was said somewhere that card art and the bonus text might not neccesarily match, and if I had to make a guess, I'd say Ambuscade drops poor office worker in Hostage situation, and Fanatic saves him in Final Dive. It doesn't make sense mechanically, but I bet that's what we'd see if we were reading the comic

CE
celette482
2013-04-30 11:47 UTC
#69

The poor guy IS one of Dr. Meredith Stinson's hapless employees. (see Freedom Four Annual #1 to get this reference)

IR
Ironic
2013-04-30 19:10 UTC
#70

He's just a guy with a knack for being in really bad situations.  Eventually, a freak accident at Dr. Stinson's lab will turn him into "Twitchy".

As an aside, I have finally accepted the the name Twitchy, since it sounds terrible and doesn't suit him - exactly the kind of codename this poor clown would get stuck with.

Ironic

JA
jagarciao
2013-04-30 22:03 UTC
#71

Hahaha, I think it suits him fine in the image from "Shock Rounds"