Episode 250 of the Letters Page: Writers’ Room: Justice Comics #571-573

The Scavenger Unity episode

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For once in my life, I am not dreading a birthday, but I totally get what Adam’s talking about.

…Oh my god, Christopher doesn’t even get to hit his 40’s before his body just starts falling apart. D: I hope he can get something done about this!

If Scavenger Unity wasn’t in the Final Wasteland, I’d be really surprised!

Let them fight!

This is a very cool insight into Unity’s powers.

I’ll bet Haka doesn’t dread birthdays.

Fungus ship? Fungus ship!

Actually, I think I brought up Mr. Hideous! XD

The fun thing about creating fake comic books is that you can say things like “this part is well-written and well-received” or “and then they fight and it’s awesome!” and not have to worry about messing up the delivery. XD Very smart!

Given his age, I doubt he even knows his exact birthdate. Calendars and timekeeping in general were very different when and where he was a wee nipper. Can probably narrow it down to some phase of a given moon in a season but I’d be surprised if he can get much more precise unless some time traveler helped him out.

One wonders if the problem might be mitigated if she made Very Large Bot in a friendlier form. Not controlling a robot T-Rex is obviously going to be dangerous. Not controlling a robot maneki-neko or Care Bear the size of a T-Rex might work out better.

Must say I’m impressed by the verisimilitude of that robo-dino. Here it is at the end of the world, presumably no one around to critique her work and she still bothered to give it a tongue. And there aren’t any paleontologists left to complain about her leaving the plumage off.

Octogator is a nice visual design, although I’m peeved it came out just now. Got an “octo-” villain most of the way done myself and now it’ll feel like I’m cribbing.

Fun episode, and now I’m really curious about Unity and Guise Vs Ambuscade!

I have another thought about the whole “Sentinel Comics teams don’t change makeup very often” - Sentinel Comics doesn’t particularly like teams as an editorial staff.

The Freedom Five had their golden age incarnation, and then their Freedom Four incarnation, and then settled into their current incarnation in 1958, but for most of the history of Sentinel Comics they were the only superhero team around. The Prime Wardens didn’t form until 1986, and then the Fall of the Prime Wardens in 2002 leaves them out of existence for the next nine years, returning in 2011; a total of 21 years of existence. Meanwhile, Dark Watch doesn’t form until 1999! They only get a total of 17 years around. And finally, the Southwest Sentinels don’t pop up until almost the end of the multiverse era.

So in total, there are only seven or eight years in which more than two superhero teams are even active. Not much space for a lot of rotations in there.

Contrast that with the RPG era, where there are (by default) at least three teams active between Daybreak, the Sentinels of Freedom, and Guise’s Neighborhood Watch. Presumably some form of Dark Watch is also active, and unless your players are using established heroes there’s a team built around their PCs as well.

The RPG doesn’t work as well with “solo books” as it does with teams, so across the multiverse there’s going to be a lot of player-created teams.

Given that her powers are explicitly tied to chaos magic, I suspect that it’s going to happen no matter what shape, and trying for a more “harmless” shape will just cause a Staypuff Marshmallow Man situation. That said, I also suspect that her later ability to control the Mecha-Rex is the result of her training under Tachyon. A good example of “sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from SCIENCE!” Or, she got better at programming (especially after building Onmnitron-U) and started incorporating more of that in her work rather than relying on the pieces of herself that she shoves into the pile of stuff. Bit like “Soulfire” in the Dresden Files and how it’s initially used, vs how it’s used after the user gets some training.

But I get the gameplay reason. Though part of that seems to be because variants were more a bonus thing, rather than included in the game boxes. It would be interesting to see alternate teams in the various variants. Like that magic-based F5 with Argent Adept and the Golem Armor Bunker.

So, we learned all the way back in the Disparate Reinforcements episode that Omni-Unity did not leave through a mist-gate and is still in Universe One, scheming to unify this universe under one mind.

So, when she shows back up again, is she gonna start calling Unity “father”? How’s Benchmark and Omnitron-U gonna take that?

I’m more curious about what the interaction would be between her and Omnitron-U. Given that the only info that C&A have said, IIRC, is that our robo-boi is just “Omnitron,” that raises some questions. I wonder if the two of them have enough sense of self to remain separate beings, or if they’ve somehow merged.

Yeah, they’ve confirmed that there’s a Dark Watch consisting of Fixer, Expat, Harpy Pinion, and Setback, and that it’s become a bigger organization that can include your PCs like the Sentinels of Freedom.

Plus Void Guard’s still around (albeit in space; Lifeline hangs out with them, but I don’t know if he’s considered a member), and there are the new Paradigms and Prime Wardens teams.

So there’s actually a whopping seven active teams, with three new additions since the end of the Multiverse Era.

Very true, although if you look at Marvel and DC, team uniforms for these sorts of teams are pretty rare!

The Fantastic Four have a uniform. The X-Men started with one, but cycle through periods with them and periods without; the same is true for most of their spin-off teams. The Avengers don’t; neither do Excalibur, the New Warriors, the Champions, the Defenders, the Guardians of the Galaxy or the Eternals.

In DC comics, the Green Lantern corps have uniforms and so do the Marvel Family, but that’s about it. The Justice League and its incarnations don’t, since its heroes are all pretty much pre-existing, nor do the Teen Titans and its spinoffs. Doom Patrol sometimes has a sort-of-unified style, but not a uniform. Legion of Superheroes have a ring. The Birds of Prey and the Suicide Squad just take whomever, as do the Elite and the Outsiders.

Challengers of the Unknown have had uniforms in more incarnations than not. Blackhawks too. You could debate whether they’re actually hero teams in the way (say) the FF are, but they’ve both gotten into some pretty gonzo adventures over the years, especially the Challengers who have at least one actual nemesis supervillain. Could make an argument for the Metal men having at least a theme look, if not a uniform because they’re all 24/7 nudists.

Not 100% sure I’d want to play a game around an entirely team of heroes who all have Metal, Elasticity and sort-of Shape-Changing, though.

DC’s also very fond of “shared costume look” dynasties, which the Marvels fall under as well as many of the Bat- and Super-Family heroes. Marvel Comics doesn’t do that as often, although ironically their own first two Marvels were both wearing variants of the kree guy’s second costume - with midriff window for Carol until she decided to get her own look(s) later on.

I totally forgot about the Challengers of the Unknown! Yeah, they count.

I’m not sure about the Blackhawks, though. They’re not actually a superhero team, are they? I thought they were a military unit, more akin to SHIELD agents or the Wild Pack.

Fixer Mantra, Expat, Harpy Pinion, and Setback. But yeah: Sentinels of Freedom, the Watch, the Wardens, the Paradigms, Void Guard, Daybreak, Neighborhood Watch, and I got the impression that GLOBAL is also a sort of superteam organization. And maybe the new Virtuosos of the Void? Although I wasn’t under the impression that Daybreak was accepting new members, nor that Neighborhood Watch was the sort of superteam that PCs could be a part of as their own party. Not sure about Void Guard, we really don’t know much about them in the RPG era at all.

I’m amused that there doesn’t seem to be any reason at all that Scavenger Unity has an alternate costume, but the whole start of that story is hand-waved.

Clearly it was laundry day.

Kind of? Depends on when you read them. They started off fighting in WW2 as a private fighter squadron/commando unit fighting the Axis, similar to (say) Haunted Tank or Sgt. Rock. In the 50s the book transitioned to more of a scifi spin (not unlike the Challengers) and fought a lot of would-be world-conqueror types with various wonder-weapons and weird monsters. In 1967 DC made the calamitous decision to turn them into a flat-out super-team (with presidential approval, no less) complete with some extremely goofy costumes, an airship HQ and one of them having an Iron Man style power suit. That lasted around a year before they reverted back to their old blue/black uniforms, but the book was cancelled shortly thereafter. They’ve been revived a few times since with retconned histories, usually as good-guy mercenary/spy-fi types (often fighting new version of old supervillain-ish menaces. Modern writers seem fond of entangling them with various versions of Hawkman for some reason.

I’d rate them as being very similar to the Challengers, albeit with a more military origin instead of the airplane crash/living on borrowed time thing. For most of their history they’ve been non-powered folks who wind up running into a lot of the kind of stuff superheroes deal with, from alien invasions to evil geniuses with daft plans for conquest to supernatural shenanigans.

Guise will take help from anyone who can tolerate him. The cat that lives with him is a member of the team, for cripes sake. It’s not very hard to make a character that would fit in with that pack of screwballs. Heck, I bet the team could really use a “helpful” cosmic imp hanging around to counterbalance Wager-Master.

Sure, anyone could join Neighborhood Watch. But it’s not a superordinate organization like the old teams, which can supervise entire PC teams, the way the Sentinels of Freedom supervises Daybreak.

Oh yeah, I forgot about G.L.O.B.A.L. and the Virtuosos. That makes nine total.

My impression is that the Sentinels of Freedom, Dark Watch, G.L.O.B.A.L., the Virtuosos of the Void, and maybe the Paradigms are all willing to accept new members / sponsor PC teams.

(Although it would be unusual — but interesting — to have an all-Virtuoso team.)

Meanwhile, the New Prime Wardens, Daybreak, Void Guard, and Guise’s Neighborhood Watch seem like they wouldn’t — although I could see Neighborhood Watch accepting maybe one or two new members, or possibly setting up a group of PCs as a new chapter in a different, nearby neighborhood, and having semi-frequent crossovers.

This week’s Letters Page implied that the Prime Wardens are also restructuring as a superteam, just called The Wardens. I don’t recall having heard that before.

I think Daybreak is actually part of Sentinels of Freedom and not their own “group” in this context, as they’re attending the school there, etc.

Ditto… which reminds me, I wonder how long before they will consider Chapter 2 of the Sentinels of Freedom video game no longer spoilers, because I definitely wrote in some questions after those casual reveals.

Helfyre’s worst nightmare.

“Why do you all have d12s in Creativity and Magic Lore? Why? This is worse than that guitar duel with Rambler!”

He can’t get the rest of his team to come to his own birthday party. Anyone who’s willing to put up with him is in like Flynn. If Nega-Guise put on a hat and Groucho Marx glasses that purple goofball would welcome him with open arms even during an ongoing murder attempt. The only “member” likely to backball you is the cat, and I’m pretty sure changing its litter box would solve that problem right fast.

This episode unlocks something about a completely other character. Regardless of the fact that Unity is magic while Chokepoint is an omega, the idea that more metal with more power equals more will absolutely suggests that metal actually DOES have a voice that Choke actually can hear.

“Unity to lead Sentinels of Freedom!” Twilight Zone theme

To paraphrase Captain Janeway, “We’re Sentinels of the Multiverse; weird is part of the job.”

Is there a quintessential sidekick for Marvel Comics? Bucky Barnes is about the best I can think of.

Unity Junior? Jiunity? Don’t change the spelling on that!

Rick Jones is who I’d say. He’s sidekicked to Hulk, Captain America, Captain Marvel, and probably others, though he’s not super prominent anymore AFAIK.

Oh yeah, him, I forgot, but he definitely beats Bucky. Though the latter is interesting as one of the few sidekicks that’s older than the actual hero by certain metrics. The only other example I can think of is Stripey and the Star-Spangled Kid.

sometimes Wong is called Dr. Strange’s sidekick and he might be older than Steve. Clea and the green minotaur might also be sidekicks and might be older.

Who and the green who? I know Wong of course, but only because of the second Benedict. Though calling him a “sidekick” is as questionable as calling Doc Strange a “superhero”.

Stan Lee famously disliked teen sidekicks to adult heroes - Bucky only existed because he was created in a non-Lee comic in the Timely days, and Lee killed him off so that he wouldn’t have to deal with him in the 60s. Rick Jones was created mostly by Jack Kirby, and I’m honestly not sure how he managed to survive Kirby leaving Marvel, but he sort of gradually faded out.

Marvel tended to go the other route - lots of solo teen heroes, a few teams of entirely teens, and also various teams that an older teen would attach themselves to and gradually grow up. You could argue that Shadowcat started as a teen sidekick to the X-Men, for example. Or Jubilee. Or even the Human Torch to the Fantastic Four.

Lee’s still credited as a co-creator (and I think he did have more to do with it than you’re giving him credit for) and was therefore more attached to him than Bucky. Even back then he appreciated the potential future monetary value of creator credits. Besides, he was narratively useful for tying together old and new heroes, and just became more so over time.

Rick’s also a rather non-traditional sidekick. With the Hulk he acted more as a handler keeping him in check than the usual cheerleader/junior partner role like the archetypical 'kick Robin. When bonded with Mar-Vell he filled a Billy Batson role, which I suspect Lee got a good chuckle out of. The brief run as Bucky 2.0 was closer to a DC-style 'kick, but it was over quick and even there he was closer to a team mascot like Snapper Carr than the character who’s uniform he was wearing. Even Cap didn’t like the arrangement much, nixing Stark’s suggestion that Rick be “promoted” to honorary Avenger status so that he wouldn’t be further endangered.

Rick’s also been personally super-powered a bewildering number of times, but most of that came long after Stan had any say in what was being done with him. At this point half the Marvel heroes know him from one thing or another. When you’ve worked with Rom, Spaceknight, you know your contacts list is a comprehensive one.

Early Torch was 100% supposed to be the “teen hero” part of the FF, and Lee pushed hard to make him a solo success as well as a natural duet partner with fellow teen hero Spider-Man. That lasted for years, and never quite took off as far as I can tell. He sure did have some wacky powers back then to increase his versatility as a lead character. His flames acted almost like a Lantern power ring (ie flame constructs showed up regularly) in those days, something they largely ignored in the pages of the FF itself.

Clea is a white-haired sorceress, former apprentice and former lover of Strange, she shows up for a second at the end of Multiverse of Magic.
Rintrah is another forgotten Dr. Strange supporting character- exactly as I described a minotaur with green fur/skin also is in Multiverse of Madness

Huh, I remembered Clea being in MoM, but I have no memory of any green minotaurs in that movie. Always fun to learn about heroes’ forgotten supporting cast, though!

he was at karma taj. I had to google his name and then google if i remembered him from MoM or What If?

Yeah, I’m pretty sure I remembered seeing him in the big scene where witchy attacks the temple.

Also what, his third-oldest supporting character, right after the Ancient One and Wong? People really ought to read the old Ditko run instead of just watching MCU flicks. The art’s trippy and Steve was clearly enjoying himself.

I feel like “sidekick” is a narrower and much more specific subcategory of “supporting cast”. Maybe she qualifies, I’d have to read more to be sure. If I found any Dr. Stranges in my aunt’s collection, I haven’t bothered to read them because they went directly into the “yes keep this” pile without any evaluation needed.

I think I’d agree with that distinction. From what little I know of Clea, which I believe is mostly second hand—I don’t think I’ve read more than maybe one or two stories with her—she’s more supporting cast than sidekick.

Strange (at least in the periods when I read him extensively, so from the start and ending in the 1990s) really never had a sidekick as such, or even much of a supporting cast. Clea, the Ancient One, and Wong would occasionally help out in a crisis, or more often be targeted by enemies in some scheme or another, but they didn’t really train or patrol with him day-to-day the way Robin or Bucky did. The Ancient One’s a mentor archetype and very rarely, a deus ex machina. Wong is a butler, and not even the cool “I have an extensive history and mad skills” butler that Alfred is. Clea was an apprentice in theory (you see very little training) and (unsatisfying) romantic interest whose most common role was damsel in distress. Her most interesting feature was that she’s effectively a refugee from Dormamu’s Dark Dimension, so a fish out of water in the ordinary world - not that they did much with that. Beyond them, that was about it for an ongoing support cast.

I’ll be the first to admit that “classic” Doctor Strange was not especially well written, had little character development, and generally focused on weird mystical stuff rather than the actual cast. That might explain why he’s struggled to maintain a long-running solo title, but it also made him very easy to drop in to other books’ storylines when needed. Bit like Nightmist, but more so.

To put it mildly, the MCU has transformed the characters to the point where even Stephen is barely recognizable (the original was nowhere near as much of a snarky ass). Since the movies make all the money now, that’s led to the printed comics distorting to fit, something I have very mixed feelings about.

Something C&A clearly aped when they did the Argent Adept episode for the podcast.