Episode 239 of the Letters Page: Writers’ Room: Dark Watch Vol. 1 #47

Prompt was “a romance the fans hated” which means it true love no matter what other says on this Valentine’s Day

Cover is hidden to not spoil

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Get ready, listeners, this one’s a doozy

Hilariously, I have a pack of those cookies in my pantry right now. And they’re hardly the worst Oreo ever, for all that I am highly amused by their mutual groaning over it. Proof: Take vs. Food Episode 39: Unraveling the Mystery of Mystery Oreos! - YouTube

Okay, Expatriette and Kismet though…

Oh boy, hate this already.

I, too, am pleased with the horrible way this entire plot thread goes. But man, poor Harpy. XD

And a bonus fall of Dark Watch story! This isn’t a bad episode at all!

Mr. Fixer driving away. XD

Aw, Pete’s such a good guy.

Love the Fright Train idea!

I’m so pleased KNYFE and Orbo came up again.

Okay, Writer’s Room: Mr. Fixer’s old flame shows up again. Let’s do this, I need it!

So Wraith seduces a lot of guys named Mark, huh?

Oh my, how did we have a train wreck this big without Stephen Graves being involved?

What a fun episode!

It’s funny that they had to rely on “it’s too drawn-out and badly written” as the thing that irritates the fans, because otherwise yeah, I’m here for it! The idea that, in theory, he might be sincerely redeemed, but he’s so incredibly untrustworthy that we can never know for sure? Delicious. And even with the way it works out, it gives some interesting weight to their later interactions. I’m always gonna be more interested in superhero fights when the stakes are really personal.

And yes, Expat/Setback/Kismet throuple is a dreadful idea that ABSOLUTELY got no end of fanfics about it in the metaverse. Heck, I’m halfway tempted to write one myself

(Also I wonder if Christopher would like regular lemon thins, or if he only enjoys lemon thin Oreos?)

Some of the Letters Page discord folks hate it exists period. And even they seem to not be terribly fond of it. No matter who it was the relationship had to last for at least a while and not be a one off.

As a person who submitted this as a topic I feel they nailed it.

Look, we all know the real reason why the fans hated this.

I feel like I could swear I called this as an idea once. If I didn’t, I know somebody did, lol.

I too think they nailed the prompt, but also don’t mind it. Partially because it makes sense, especially considering the story they made out of it.

Haven’t heard the entire episode yet, but far enough to know the pairing. Just looked at the cover, and gotta say that’s just gross. Could easily be transplanted onto a cheap trashy romance novel. So good job on the prompt! I hate it, and can’t wait to hear the rest and find out what happens!

P.S. Double Stuff Oreo is objectively better than regular, and the only flavor variant worth existing is Mint Creme. I’m willing to die on this hill. Fight me.

Have fun, this is honestly one of my favorite episodes, and I went in with no expectations.

I really like the metaverse end of Sentinels in general, and this episode has so much fun with shaping the reactions of the metaverse as a whole, not to mention a really fun story.

I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to put a stop to this nonsense. The BEST Oreos, by such a wide margin that it’s barely worth even discussing second place, are Cinnamon Bun flavour Oreos. The filling is sweeter, but that sweetness is offset by just the perfect amount of cinnamon in the cookies. They are. SO. GOOD.

I sort of enjoy the Carrot Cake Oreos, but the cookies are just a touch too crunchy and there’s something slightly off with the filling’s flavour. But somehow they manage to be better than the sum of their parts and it ends up being enjoyable.

If I may enquire re: the double-stuffed, what about it do you enjoy? I’m sort of with Christopher on the “the filling isn’t the best part” thing, except that I prefer to eat my Oreos whole so the filling is key [for me]. But I guess if you liked the filling more double-stuffed would be the way to go?

If you’ll all excuse me, I need to go to the grocery store now.

Yet another thing that upsets me more than the relationship from this episode.

The horror…

Same here, dunked in milk is best. No filling = just a wafer. I don’t really go for the twist apart and lick method.

Because I don’t accept other flavors, or because I accept anything beyond the original? I used to be an Oreo purist, but the mint won me over. Similar to Girl Scout Thin Mints, but with the creamy filling texture instead of all crunch.

Mint creme Oreoes. Not as bad as mint ice cream, but it’s bound to be up there.

I think we need a list question for the next Editor’s Note regarding the favorite Oreo flavor of the respective Sentinels heroes. Ya know, or whatever the equivalent in-universe cookie is assuming Todido’s makes snack products beyond chips.

The in-universe cookie is called Moreo’s, because clearly that name is still up for grabs.

My problem with dipping any cookie in milk is that I’m (1) impatient, and (2) want to cookie to absorb as much milk as possible without falling apart. When I can get it perfect, it’s great. But half the time I’m just sitting there waiting for the cookie so soak up more milk and hoping I don’t keep it in too long.

I have taken the mini Oreos, tossed a few in a cup, broken them up with a teaspoon and poured some milk in on top, which works pretty well. But at that point it actually works better without the filling.

Yeah, but it’s a delicious wafer. There’s a reason lots of recipes call for an Oreo cookie crumb crust, and it’s not because the filling is the best part of the cookie.

I am with you there. Again, I’m impatient, and all that time faffing about with twisting and licking isn’t worth it. And an Oreo is one of those things that’s better than the sum of it’s parts, so taking it apart is like downgrading it. That sweet filling? It’s at it’s best when it’s providing a contrast to the bitter chocolate wafer.

I absolutely did not see this coming; it amuses me greatly that they considered and discarded more than a few of the suggestions that we put together while guessing.

But I think they nailed it. It’s exactly the kind of romance that most fans would hate - weird, mishandled by writer turnover, dragged out just a bit too long, but with a core idea that could have worked and substantially shaken up the setting if it had played out differently (plus the added grimace factor of someone barely out of their teens dating an immortal being.)

It winds up being exactly the sort of story that I love to hear about having happened, and would have been intensely upset with if it happened in a comic I was actually reading at the time.

And for the oreos - count me in the Double Stuffed camp. The contrast of filling and cookie is what makes Oreos great, and a bit of extra filling makes that contrast tilt sweet instead of tilting bitter. But more than that is too much of a good thing.

I’m sure someone has researched a Saturation vs. Cohesion plot to determine the optimal dunking time. I’m not opposed to the chocolate cookie crust, but it needs some kind of creamy filling. Basically, as you said the creme and wafer are better together than standing alone.

And yes, I think the ratio is better in Double Stuft. Anything beyond that and you’re just mucking about in a sea of partially hydrogenated oils with apparently tons of sugar. I was surprised to hear them say that Oreos don’t contain lots of high fructose corn syrup.

Side note: I never listened to Il Alimento, but I’m taking great pleasure in the opening salvo fired in the Great Cookie Conflict of 2023.

I think I remember cinnamon bun Oreos, and they were quite good. But then there was also once key lime, which my mother still complains about wanting.

My favorite were the berry ones with the pop rocks in the filling. :B

Also, best way to eat Oreos is two at a time, twisting off one cookie per and mashing the filling sides together. You eat the empty wafers first because you are not a weenie.

This reminds me to agree with Christopher that the Peanut Butter Oreos are too cloying.

I bought them recently from a sale because usually I love all things peanut butter and chocolate, but when I tried it, it was just… too much. It was like… the Oreo equivalent of when you eat a bit too much peanut butter and it sticks in your mouth. Bleah.

When they started discussing it, I was thinking they went with Most-eo because Moreo was already in use for a smaller cookie, because 6x the filling is ridiculous.

Like you have progressively more filling from Normal → Double Stuff → Moreo → Most-eo

But then I googled it and Moreo is some custom-oreo thing that’s made by a different company so I don’t know what’s going on anymore.

Also normal oreos have the perfect amount of filling and I am pro-mint.

As a lifetime peanut butter-lover, I’ve always been disappointed in the peanut butter Oreos. There’s just something about them that doesn’t quite work for me. Now, if they made them with vanilla cookies, that might be something…

It blows my mind, but Oreo thins are possibly even more perfectly balanced. They are really good! And this coming from someone who thought the Mega Stuffed needed more filling. :V

wanders in to see if people feel C&A hit the prompt

Oh, this thread contains 80% debates about Oreos! Clearly the cursed romance must be Oreo flavors.

But, on topic, I bet there was a significant slice of the fandom on board with that romance.

Maybe at first but as it dragged on I can see it being soured upon.

Joking aside, I could see some story potential in what Apostate did. Think of it this way, what if he decided to break up Dark Watch intentionally because of how fun watching the Prime Wardens implode was? So, to get inside, he had to create an alternate identity, that was strong enough to not immediately trigger whatever wards Nightmist and Harpy have around themselves. So everything about “Matthew” was completely genuine, but it was also a mask.

This leads to an interesting look at nature vs nurture, because in the end, he had a choice, and chose nature, chose deception.

Yeah, particularly with the repetition of “is he being evil this time? No. What about this time? Yeah, but he apologised. And this time? No. And this time?” I feel like that part would get old.

I was thinking something like that with perhaps a third writer trying to justify all the times that the readers were told that Mathew was genuinely trying to change by having Apostate talk about the event later by saying “Just like you mortals I am best at lying to myself.”

The true “bad romance” mentioned in the issue was Apostate and the flesh child Impostate.

I dunno, the Apostate/Unity suggestion actually caused some nausea…

I haven’t tried them, but Cookies & Cream Most Oreoes makes sense to me. If it were normal creme, that’s too much creme flavor. But if the creme itself has some cookie flavor in it, that would balance out.

It certainly makes more sense than my own pet peeve flavor, Hot Chocolate-flavored ice cream.

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! NIGHTMIST SLASH APOSTATE!!! Way to instantly knock the prompt out of the park.
(What do you mean that isn’t Nightmist?)

(The forum doesn’t like my moving this from a wrong topic to here.)

The Most Oreos skit amused me because it features the name Brunt, who’s my absolute favorite member of the Ferengi Commerce Authority.

(I just ate some peanut butter Oreos before listening, too…)

Mister Fixer: “You’re all such tiny, petty people!”

Given that “Matthew” has to be back to evil at the end, the obvious explanation here is that he’s doing the Emperor Palpatine thing. He’s not just pretending, he’s method acting; he’s put DathbSidious away in a secret box at the bottom of a closet in the back of his mind, and he’s just the kindly helpful Senator from Naboo, given genuinely helpful advice to the troubled young Anakin. Apostate fits extremely well as being a Palpatine type villain.

Loved the classism vibes in the Ermine Fright Train concept from Weasel’s letter. I feel like I would genuinely enjoy Fright Train talking about why he likes trains so much. Get a real life train autist to write his best lecture about why they’re great, and then rewrite it to sound like the speaker never finished high school.

Saying “an Aesop” is a TvTropes neologism.

Valentine is redeemable but untrustworthy. Apostate is the living incarnation of deception as a concept; “untrustworthy” doesn’t begin to cover it. Redeeming him would be significantly more improbable than making Fanatic fall to evil; it’d be like making a Fanatic who’s indecisive and fears the very idea of judging anyone.

iirc, they did have a point in the Tactics timeline where Fanatic went through a lot of uncertainty and indecision, and it really affected her powers. And was not well-liked in the metaverse, so no wonder it didn’t stick.
The thing about deception, though, is that in my experience it works best when you use as much truth as possible, and Apostate does some of his best trickery using that same principle. The instance that comes to mind most is probably when he told Fanatic about The Host, but I’m sure there’s plenty of other occasions. So I think this plot has to have some basis in reality, and some prospect of a real, lasting redemption.

(I think the real reason that would never happen in the comic is the same reason redemptions don’t usually stick in Marvel or DC — comics universes have a pretty stable status quo. Nobody stays dead except for Uncle Ben, and nobody stays redeemed except… actually, I can’t think of any good examples. Arguably Harley Quinn?)

Exactly my point in comparing him to the Emperor.