If you think this episode is about a hero, then you don't know Jack.
You can listen to Spite's murderous tales here.
Oh. And Powerhound_2000, I hope we don't have a repeat of last week in this thread. I would hate to see you try and put a card name in your post, it would look like a forced entry.
I’ll be a good samaritan and won’t do that. Besides I’m really not sure how to fit a drug name into a sentence anyways.
Really? My Mynd is on Phyre with the possibilities.
Yeah, I'm out of ideas now.
I think you’re begging for a demon’s kiss with that kind of logic.
We actually met the one Spite fan in existence, I'm impressed.
Actually, I find Spite interesting as a character flavor-wise, I just can't stand his game mechanics. :P
I admit to finding it slightly... amusing? Bemusing? That out of all the dark and creepy stuff in Sentinels, this is the one episode that gets a content warning.
It's also kind of fascinating that really Spite is even worse than we already thought he was, when we already thought he was pretty bad. I had thought he started killing people to get Wraith's goat, which, while obviously not a remotely admirable motive, is still intellectually comprehensible. But it turns out nah, he just started killing people because he thought it was fun the first time he accidentally does it.
Also, I will never feel sorry about the length of any of my letters ever again. Even Powerhound has been completely trounced.
I might have had them beat with the Guise epsidoe if they actually went through all my questions but typically my letters are not that long.
I like the reveal for how Maniac Jack, thief turned into Jonathan Donovan, serial killer. A lot of real life serial killers assert that their first killing was accidental/unplanned so that makes sense to me. Jonathan comes across as a process serial killer, especially with his taking of trophies . These details add a to the general picture of spite as a serial killer with superpowers.
I like the part where Spite gets put in the ground and will never be heard from again.
Ever.
Never ever.
Who says people can't appreciate Spite? I also find him interesting story-wise, but also find his mechanics fun. I'm bringing a specialized team to take him out, but I'm pulling him out
As Christopher and Adam themselves noted, finding people who like Spite is not exactly common. So I joked about it, since I seem to be one of the few people who still finds Spite interesting as a character at least even if I agree with the common attitude that his mechanics are unfun.
I feel put out whenever I make a joking observation about some extremely common sentiment I've seen and people then pretend like I'm the only one who's ever said it.
The moral of the story is don't make jokes. Be super serious. All the time.
Put me down as someone who likes Spite as a character but doesn't like his mechanics, I especially hate his AoG variant it my second least favourite mechanics wise
@bobbertoriley Yeah, I get that impression sometimes. :/ No jokes allowed, not even when you're just riffing off the jokes the creators themselves made.
Sorry Jeysie, didn't mean to put you out, just thought Spite (mainly as a deck) seems underappreciated.
I like the idea of both of Spite's decks and think I see what they were going for, but they both just don't work out in practice.
Like, normal Spite's deck seems like it's intended to be a tug between keeping your resources and saving victims to enhance his "Adult Fear" flavor vibes, but in practice it's rarely worth bothering too much with victims at all versus stalling to get set up then rushing getting the rest of his drugs out to flip him and pound on him.
Likewise, AoG Spite could be interesting strategy-wise if you always had control over which drugs to flip, but getting to do so is essentially just luck, so again it ends up being more of a "stall to set up then go to town" sort of thing.
Yeah, the thing for me is, as a character he’s pretty cool. His design is really neat, too. It’s his GAMEPLAY that I don’t like. Gloom Spite goes a ways towards fixing it, but not enough.
Also, on the topic of everyone being SOMEONE’S favorite character, Proletariat is mine.
I've got to agree with the majority here, I like Spite as a character, but hate facing him in the game. Even if you can win, it'll take an annoyingly long time.
A very, very interesting character there, and clearly the guys were paying attention to their Gritty Crime Dramas, because they created a pretty good (if appropriately exaggerated in some ways) serial killer. Other than his near-genius level intellect, which is often inaccurately attributed to psychopaths, a lot of what he does can be fitted into an understandable psychological model. So I'm going to start speculating.
Jonathan Donovan likely grew up in a very unstable environment. He might have come from a broken home, or at the very least had abusive or neglectful parents. He grew up without boundaries, guidance or any way to direct his intellect. He never learned how to manage his emotions, particularly his destructive impulses. He was almost certainly exposed to violent and criminal behaviour when he was young, most of which was probably random and without predictable consequence. His own criminal behaviour would probably have started very young, most likely acts of trespass as well as disproportionate and seemingly unprovoked acts of violence, with the latter stopping as he realised that retribution for these acts was more consistent. If he was compelled to attend school, teachers would likely have described him as bright but easily bored and utterly uninterested in applying himself. It is probable that he would have experienced people with addictions during his youth and conceived an idea that he was superior to them, accounting for his addictive personality turning to crime rather than more readily-available street highs.
Growing into adulthood, Jonathan Donovan would have been an intelligent underachiever. He was likely very poor, working a series of menial jobs which he considered to be beneath him and abandoned as soon as he got bored. It is possible that he had a surprisingly broad knowledge base, voraciously gathering knowledge on any subject that took his interest before abandoning them just as quickly, likely in response to feeling overly challenged by the subject matter. Police procedure was likely one of the topics that took his interest, not that he particularly needed it considering the corruption and incompetence of the Rook City PD.
The Maniac Jack crime spree likely began some time before the Rook City PD and the Wraith noticed it, as Jack probably honed his skills breaking into abandoned or unoccupied houses, then graduated to stealing from the poor and disenfranchised before tackling the more secure houses of the wealthy. As well as the adrenaline rush of entering a place he should not be, Jack probably also gained a sense of power and superiority from violating his victims' personal space. Once he began stealing from the rich he probably constructed a series of shallow justifications, possibly implying some kind of political or philosophical agenda, but never took them seriously and never intended to make any kind of genuine point. The press attention likely served to feed his ego and increase the pleasure he gained from committing the crimes, as well as encouraging him to be more bold. He may even have felt a sense of pride at attracting the attention of the Wraith, though this would have come hand in hand with a need to assert his intellectual superiority over her. During this time his violent outbursts likely decreased in frequency but became more intense as a result.
The first Spite killing was, as we know, entirely unplanned but depressingly inevitable. While the substance of the crime changes, the underlying motivation - to assuage his boredom with a brief adrenaline rush and to assert his superiority over his victims - remained the same. On the rare occasions he thought about his actions he may have justified them to himself by characterising his victims as weak or stupid, lacking the ability to protect themselves and therefore deserving whatever he did to them. An examination of his victims over the long term would probably have revealed a trend towards more risky or less vulnerable targets as he sought increasing levels of adrenaline and boosted ego. Had his crimes taken place anywhere other than Rook City, the Wraith and a competent police department would likely have caught him much earlier in his killing spree. In particular, his need to literally have blood on his hands after the murder would have led him to make a mistake sooner or later. It is also probable that he would have got more sloppy as his killings continued, feeling invincible in his sense of superiority over the people hunting him. Fortunately, he was stopped before this happened.
By the time he was imprisoned for the Spite killings, rehabilitation was a practical impossibility for Jack Donovan. At this stage in his life he would be unable to develop a sense of genuine empathy, and his success as a criminal would have cemented the notion in his mind that he could act as he wished and get away with it. It is probable that he justified the Wraith catching him as her 'getting lucky', leading to intense resentment as an 'undeserving' individual received attention that he had become accustomed to receiving. Donovan was probably the kind of criminal who would have a scrapbook of their own press cuttings.
Following his breakout from the Barzakh Wing, Spite's personality remains mostly unchanged. He has finally acquired a chemical addiction, though he probably justifies himself as 'better' than those addicted to street drugs. While killing becomes a physical necessity rather than simply a psychological addiction, there is probably still some element of choice in his victims. In particular, he likely prefers victims whose deaths would shock and upset those who discovered them, especially the Wraith. While killing Eduardo and Sara was obviously a massive deal, realistically Spite would never get over hating the Wraith. He would fantasise extensively about killing her, but deep down would probably be afraid of direct confrontation and seek to avoid it in case she bested him again.
I knew I watched all of those episodes of Criminal Minds for something.
The one thing I remember (dang, I listened to this nine hours ago D:) is that Christopher said he would rather fight Agent of Gloom Spite, and that is my feeling as well, when it comes to the game. :B Much more manageable.
I'm just disappointed that Spite isn't actually a cannibal.
@Arcanist Lupus: I mean, let's face it, that would totally fit with Spite's personality.
@The Almighty Weasel: Also, Spite fanfic, nice!
I'm slightly annoyed we don't know Spite's RPG future. I get spoilers, but I was really interested in the power dynamic between him and Gloomy and the Master. Actually, if we didn't know The Master was on Gloomy's throne, I'd bet money that's where we would find Jack.
I was also nearly certain for a moment that Demon's Kiss and Mind Phyre were going to be revealed as components of Zhu Long's concotion, but I'd still place some small amount of money of there being a connection there, maybe an offshoot inspired by the original.
Thing is, it is odd to get life-draining powers and psychic powers and purple fire powers from normal drugs. I almost wish they had just called Spite a mystical force and been done with it because comic's science makes less sense to me than magical forces, especially when they exist side by side.
Also, am I the only one considering making an RPG character based off Spite now? Some poor sap who got kidnapped by Pike Scientists and the heroes saved just a little too late, getting a dosage of Spite's highly Toxic blood which they purchased from FILTER, and having to deal with this need to drain the life energy from people, but the morality that prevents the kinds of murder sprees that Spite went on. Can the blood of a monster be turned towards noble ends?
I like Spite's character arc but was very disappointed that the Agent of Gloom arc does not have a satisfying payoff.
Black!
He has Black hair! Just look at his deck, front OR back!
Unless… Hmmmm, goes to ask question
My impression of what they said about his RPG future was along the lines of, "We don't have anything planned, but it's totally possible that the clones are under there somewhere, so you could probably do something with it."
Basically, every summation of what they have planned with the RPG ends with an unspoken, "But if you want to do otherwise, that's cool too."
But remember how they ended the episode, calling back to spite as "The monster that can't be killed" I feel like there is some heavy implications that the original Spite is going to be making an appearance somehow, because he's totally dead now that Gloomweaver took over that body and power and kicked him out right? Just like when Parse totally killed him? Or that building fell on him?
The clones aren't a surprise because of Iron Legacy and Broken City, so if they were going to use them I feel like they would just say so, but if Spite's Animus somehow found another body, that would be somewhat shocking, and hopefully be a "fix" for the dissatisfaction felt with Gloom Spite.
Honestly, given the tone of the episode, I would not be terribly surprised if C+A's attitude to Spite going forward was, "He was awful, let's never speak of this again."
Spite's flavor as a remorseless spree killer just out for funsies has its appeal, but it's also increasingly one-note as the storyline goes on.
In contrast, other awful villains tend to either have style (Apostate, Heartbreaker), or some sort of grand scheme beyond merely mayhem (Biomancer, Voss), making them easier to keep doing more stuff with.
An unfortunate side-effect of the meta of OblivAeon.
True, but one thing about Spite is that (terrifyingly enough) he has room to grow.
He is a genius-level intellect, he just doesn't use for it anything, so what if the Fleshwalker event was a last straw kind of deal. Spite ends up out of his body, floating around in impotent rage, and realizess that if he wants to destroy the Wraith and the other heroes, and possibly get bacl at Gloomweaver, he needs to start planning more. He's got to set more short-term plans beyond "eat enough to live" and start gathering different types of power. He's smart enough to press down his instincts I think, which would be to smash everything.
Or, perhaps he does continue to just smash everything, but instead of eating people he spends some time eating spirits in the Realm of Discord, becoming a true monstrosity and force of the Universe.
And sure, it's probably still one note, but if every couple of Halloweens we get a new "Spite is terrifying and kills a bunch of people" story, it can still be a fun read (and I just realized I was thinking about that in terms of Sentinel Comics readership… well done.)
You remind me that it kind of weirds me out a little that there's so many life-energy-draining psychic vampire type people and beings in the Sentinels Universe. At least someone who sucks your blood has to actually manage to touch you first to do it.