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The Cosmic Contest - AKA Who would win in a fight against who? (Actual contest entries due December 6th)

105 posts · 3751 views · started 2017-10-26 17:54 UTC
JE
Jeysie
2017-10-26 17:54 UTC
#1

If Christopher and Adam really want to encourage us to engage in shameless "who's better [character x] or [character y]" debate, then who am I to argue (with them, at least)?

Here's the PDF with the canon brackets for your perusal: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kukouh44n6khie7/Cosmic%20Contest%20Bracket%20Fillable.pdf?dl=0 , but really, feel free to engage in thinking out loud about any hypothetical matchups that you wish.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-26 17:58 UTC
#2

Despite what most may assume I’ve picked Tempest as my ultimate winner.  He has access to a bit of everything and seems capable of dealing with a variety of threats.  I have my doubts of him dealing with Progeny out of the Conqueror tier but if Progeny in the final bracket doesn’t lose there I don’t know where else he would.  

AR
arenson9
2017-10-26 18:01 UTC
#3

If you run into trouble using the in-application functionality to send the filled out PDF, consider this workaround: After adding a signature, go to the send functionality, and attempt to save your file. You'll get a popup saying you can only save a blank version of the form, but also an option to PRINT the filled-in form. Use that print option, but set the printer to be printing out a PDF.

BO
bobbertoriley
2017-10-26 18:04 UTC
#4

What is this madness?!

It's not even March yet.

UX
UXM266
2017-10-26 18:10 UTC
#5

By shear luck, I ended up with Tachyon vs. The Harpy! Wasn't my intention, but ended up that way. 

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-26 19:43 UTC
#6

There's one thing I'm concerned about this whole contest.

Most of the time in comics when two main characters throw down, theres times that the most common sense answer won't be the outcome. We'll use two heroes in this example that each have a comic book line, yet hero A has a higher 'power level' than hero B.

A character's popularity usually is a large factor, normally tipping the scale in their favor, especially if a fan vote is held(Like Marvel vs DC in the 90's).

The writer also could throw a curve-ball, either having some sort of extenuating circumstance that severly tips the scales in hero B's favor.

Heck, the book where the fight takes place is a major factor as well!

Long story short, I don't want to send my well thought out bracket guesses in and have them all correct EXCEPT for the one in a trillion chance that Ermine somehow single-handedly defeats Progeny(just an example).

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-26 19:47 UTC
#7

Better odds for to me then  :grin:

RO
Ronway
2017-10-26 19:55 UTC
#8

GloomWeaver was the winner in the one I filled out.

JE
Jeysie
2017-10-26 19:56 UTC
#9

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of possible assumptions to consider here.

  1. Are the heroes going into this totally on board with there being a throw-down, or are they going to have their individual levels of reluctance to fight, especially between matchups of friends or allies?

  2. Is this a popularity contest or a more strictly power level contest?

  3. Is this more based on what would be most entertaining to happen or what would logically happen?

4. Does the Haka and Ra fight involve mud wrestling.

PY
Pydro
2017-10-26 20:08 UTC
#10

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/sotm-event-20-march-madness-6989

That was fun! Forgot about that until this thread.

SP
speedyolrac
2017-10-26 20:20 UTC
#11

I refuse to answer this seriously until I know it was a popularity contest or the writer seeing who is the best. There are 100% going to be upset. Either someone just happens to have the right thing to beat the other.

 

And ermine can win if it was just the Head of Progeny. Emine just happens to steal a McGiffinite that can one shoot Progeny before she got ported. Her time in the block made her molecules unstable allowing her to disrupt Progeny composition giving her an upper hand. to I mean let's be honest, anything can happen. This is comic that will send fans upset for years (How did Wolverine beat Lobo? I mean the fight was off-screen. I do not approve of the Jubilee and Robin shipping, it should be me kissing her.) I am sure it would be fun to watch and enjoy the show.

 

And Ronway, I made La Capitan fight NightMist in the end. I agree with your Gloomyvictory, Just pick your favorite and go for it. Not sure how that fight would play out but I would read it. BB made it fast until he fought my favorites. Now I need to find and read the new Contest of Champions. . .

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-26 20:36 UTC
#12

I'm confused.  What is the point of this?  Is there anything to do with these after filling them out?

But yeah, so many considerations.  I assume we're talking about the comic books and not the card game (in which a solo hero could never beat a normal villain) or Tactics (which allows for more objective comparisons).  If comic books, there's popularity, there's whose book the conflict takes place in, there's where in the characters' story arcs the conflict takes place, there's the reason for fighting (if one is possessed or tricked by a villain, they'll usually lose), there's the surprise attack factor, etc., etc.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-26 21:54 UTC
#13

You are supposed to send the filled out brackets to letterspage@greaterthangames.com

 

The winner is inserted into Sentinels RPG canon

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-26 22:18 UTC
#14

Oh, I hadn't finished listening to today's Letters Page and this thread didn't mention it anywhere.

LF
Lord_Flash_Fire
2017-10-26 22:45 UTC
#15

I’ve been wanting to do this for a while, but this has pushed me over the edge to make another villain death match (Will put the link when I get to my computer) I loooved the original.

PC
Princess_Cool
2017-10-26 22:56 UTC
#16

My final picks

Champion: Legacy, come on guys Iron Legacy is the hardest villain in the game, and all he is is Legacy not holding back. Not to mention popularity power if we are going off of that.

Tech: Writhe, ironically not for his Tech but for his portal to hell power and intangibility which basically makes him untouchable.

Argent Adept: Sure the other mystics may know more about what they're doing, but Argent Adept can just start jamming on the saxophone and undo the world if he wanted to.

Martial: Wraith, her drive to win and variety of options lends her the title.

Conqueror: Progeny, duh.

Cunning: Baron Blade, also duh.

Eldritch: Lifeline, this was a tough call, but seeing as how he oneshotted Gloomweaver once, I'll bet he can do it again.

Bruiser: Bugbear, he's just too strong.

Final Victory: Progeny, it is very strong.

TA
TakeWalker
2017-10-27 00:46 UTC
#17

There are so many heroes I just don't know the parameters of though. D:

Is Writhe tangible? If so, I'm pretty sure he could lose to Absolute Zero. But if not, I don't know how AZ could touch him.

Are Biomancer's Fleshchildren capable of being raised as zombies and used against him?

Is Sgt. Steel by himself, or does he get all his Agent buddies to back him up?

Are these "you must fight!" fights, or is sitting down and talking acceptable? What happens when Medico has to fight his daughter? What do Benchmark or Kaargra Warfang even do? I mean, I'm glad we're getting some info on what, exactly, the Cosmic Contest is, I think I'd just rather have these questions being asked after we've heard all the character episodes and seen all the decks in play. :/

That said, I thought the hardest starting fight was Wraith vs. Fixer. They just seem really evenly matched physically, and it's all about planning vs. experience. And maybe Driving Mantising a few knives back where they came from.

YO
Yoshi348
2017-10-27 03:26 UTC
#18

I definitely went into this with a "this is a big comic crossover story, how would the writers write this" mindset. That said there's a lot of different factors that brings into play that makes decisions all over the place tough.

In the champion tier Legacy just goes to town, he's Legacy, man! Plus the upper half where he hangs out is just full of people who don't really have a specific angle to work against him or anything, which is probably what you're going to need to deal with him. Bottom half was really hard to figure out; CC and Tempest are both super versatile, while Void Guard Mainstay vs. Tachyon isn't just a brain vs. brawn match since Mainstay's got a good head on his shoulders, plus without any of the Void Guard decks I don't really have a handle on their real power set. Then I realised that if I broke the ties right I'd get TEMPEST VS TACHYON GRUDGE MATCH SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY so in that went.

Other highlights: I actually had Benchmark get past AZ cause they were really pushing his character plus AZ gets all the hard knocks. Parse being the ultimate winner of this tier wasn't what I expected going in but all the parts made sense to me. Martial tier head towards Setback vs. Expatriette because that's not just comics drama that's exactly what Setback's luck would do; fluke a victory at the last minute over K.N.Y.F.E. and then he'd learn who he was fighting next. I assume Progeny is just his head because well… that's all he is at this point and not just his head would win the tournament twice over without breaking a sweat. I had him bouncing to Legacy so we can get Yet Another Baron Blade vs. Legacy fight (though it didn't really consider aiming towards this until way too late). I almost had Blade win so that there would be hero vs. villian in the finals with my bracket but I realized that for Blade that would be a shining moment important enough to be part of his story, so no go there.

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2017-10-27 03:30 UTC
#19

I'll toss in my ultimate winner:  Baron Blade, in an upset.

I'm also taking Christopher and Adam at their word that no one can beat Mister Fixer in a one-on-one hand-to-hand combat.  He took my Martial bracket with ease.

AL
Arcanist_Lupus
2017-10-27 04:43 UTC
#20

Ah, but who said that this was hand-to-hand?  What if it's hand-to-hairdryer?

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-10-27 15:16 UTC
#21

There are so many things to consider, I'm not even sure where to begin with most of this.

 

One of my first gut instincts though is Void Guard Mainstay against Tachyon. IF Mainstay goes rock form he is  supposedly nearly invulnerable, like they had to mention Oblivaeon in that sentence invulnerable. So, the question to me is, does he get a chance to change? If he does, Tachyon probably would have a very difficult time hurting him. And you could argue the vacuum trick to remove oxygen, but Void Guard hangs out in space constantly, so that wouldn't really make a difference.

 

Also, from a story perspective, how often would Tachyon's speed decide a match immediately? It could potentially make future matches more difficult where as Mainstay's ridiculous toughness has a few different counters for the other heroes. So, my gut is telling me Mainstay wins that fight in a show of "This is who the Void Guard is"

 

 

Also, Zhu Long vs Kaagra... Zhu Long is ridiculous but Kaagra's entire immortal life is arena style combat, if we assume that things don't go down to portal shenangins, I feel like Kaagra is going to be ab;e to take what Zhu Long dishes out, also isn't it fascinating that Zhu Long is in the Conquerer Tier instead of the Eldritch tier. I would not have guessed that at all.

 

A lot of interesting things going on in this contest. Also, I have to say that Setback probably doesn't beat Guise, in terms of popularity, but I really think Setback ought to win that fight in terms of ability.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-27 15:33 UTC
#22

I see this fight ending up with both being knocked out at the end.   Regardless, I don’t see either of them getting past the next opponent. 

BL
Blackfang108
2017-10-27 18:21 UTC
#23

I can actually see Setback actually taking the whole thing just by accident.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-27 18:47 UTC
#24

I see him just as likely to take himself out as he is the opponent.  

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-27 18:54 UTC
#25

Now that I've finished listening to the whole thing, it's not about "who would win," but about "who did win."  For instance, Void Guard's power level has been described as "ridiculous" and "overpowered," but they aren't "main" characters so I don't think the writers would have had them win for very long.  In other words, the winner will be determined by the story they want to tell (which is in turn mostly about popularity).  That's why, for instance, there's no way we'll get Harpy vs. Doctor Medico or Nightmist vs. Idealist, because either of the alternative stories would be a lot more interesting.

BL
Blackfang108
2017-10-27 19:07 UTC
#26

Not disagreeing with you here.

I was surprised by my results. 

PC
Princess_Cool
2017-10-27 20:35 UTC
#27

That was my logic, Wraith just has too many tricks up her sleeve to lose.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-27 20:43 UTC
#28

If Wraith has time to plan out the battle and have her gadgets ready I see her winning.  If not, I give Fixer the edge especially since he is still essentially a zombie.  

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2017-10-27 20:56 UTC
#29

Well, if it's baseball, he's also got that one wrapped up. :stuck_out_tongue:

Plus, I'm not a fan of the "as long as Bat----…the Wraith has time to prepare, she can beat anyone" argument.  There's really no way to prepare for a cosmic entity swooping down and entering you, your friends, and your worst enemies into a battle royale on some far-off planet.  

FR
FrivYeti
2017-10-27 20:57 UTC
#30

I spent far too much time thinking about this.

I gave the Champion tier to Legacy. He's just too iconic, and traditionally powerful. I figured that Mainstay beat Tachyon to show how cool he was, went down to unconventional Tempest tactics, and then Legacy beat Tempest. 

Tech Tier to Writhe, narrowly. I figure he could handle Bunker and Benchmark, opening the door to a really cool final battle against Parse.

Mystic Tier to the Argent Adept, also narrowly. Idealist can stomp Harpy, and Medico seems tailor-made to beat Nightmist through outlasting and overwhelming her, but then Medico throws the fight against the Idealist because he can't bear to really go all-in. Meanwhile, the Visionary stomps over the Scholar because the Scholar isn't going all in, and the Adept beats the Visionary because we know the Adept fought and defeated the Visionary here. 

Martial Tier: Mr. Fixer is in his element, and wins. He beats Wraith in order to have a cool story rematch against Expatriette. Setback gets past KNYFE and Guise through luck, and then founders against style.

Conquerer Tier: Progeny, duh. I considered Zhu Long, just because we know he is scary-powerful, but while he probaby wipes the floor with Kaargra and Infinitor, I don't see him having much of an edge on the big silver lug.

Cunning Tier: It's got to be Baron Blade. Unless there was a heck of an upset, I can't see him losing out. I imagine a final battle against Glamour that involved him seeing through her tricks.

Eldritch Tier: Definitely Lifeline. He's a token evil person fighting other evil people to advance; he needs to reach a point where he fights a hero.

Bruiser Tier: After a lot of consideration, Fright Train. I think he could take Plague Rat and Sergeant Steel, and while I'm betting on Spite against Bugbear (just because Bugbear is best at tearing apart weaker foes) I think Spite couldn't get much purchase against the Train.

Finale: Legacy somehow beats Progeny, using the skills and understanding that he's learned since their last fight. Baron Blade crushes Writhe. Lifeline deliberately throws his match against the Argent Adept. Fright Train flattens Mister Fixer by being just generally immune to martial arts. This leaves two Hero Vs Villain fights.

The big twist - Baron Blade beats Legacy! Maniacal laughter going into the finale. And Argent Adept out-magics Fright Train, for a Magic VS Science grand finale in which the human spirit pretty much has to triumph, so the Argent Adept is the big winner. 

 

*EDIT* Ah, crap, my bracket is almost certainly wrong. I think Yoshi is right - if Blade beat Legacy, it would be something that Christopher and Adam would have mentioned in the Blade episode.

Well, I already sent my form in, but my revised guess is Progeny beats Legacy, Blade beats Progeny. 

LI
liarliar
2017-10-27 21:05 UTC
#31

Yeah I actually gave the final victory to Wraith, although some of the comments here do have me second-guessing some of my other choices (I had Absolute Zero win his division, but Yoshi's right, Benchmark was being pushed pretty hard as the New Hotness, he wouldn't lose in the first round).

I do think Progeny is weakened, whether or not that means 'just a head,' but he still beat a few tough opponents. I can't see him winning because he can't talk, which is sort of a killer in a contest like this, so Blade took him down with a clever deception (depending on resources available, I was thinking that Progeny thinks it won before we reveal, oh no, it's just a Blade-Bot!)

PC
Princess_Cool
2017-10-27 21:47 UTC
#32

See Fright Train was almost my pick too, he has combat experience is probably a lot smarter than a majority of the Bruiser team and is ungodly strong, but I don't think he could fight off Plague Rat's infection which Plague Rat will almost certainly hit him with. Meanwhile I think Bugbear being fueled by constant blood magic healing his system would allow him to triumph.

JE
Jeysie
2017-10-27 21:47 UTC
#33

Not to mention Argent probably wanted comeback for Blade sucker punching him back during Vengeance.

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-27 22:22 UTC
#34

Urgh, the whole "Spite, Agent of Gloom" thing is really throwing me off.  He's extremely strong and dangerous, but the Gloomweaver episode has him come to life and immediately get beaten down by the heroes.  I can't reconcile that with the Cosmic Contest timeline at all, especially given that this is Skinwalker Gloomweaver, as well, in Spite's body.  I can only infer that C&A didn't put too much thought into this part, and Spite gets beaten and sent back to his grave quickly.

Edit: Well, I think I'm done, but I ended up with a very different bracket from what anyone else is describing.  Basically I went up and down the tree asking myself what confrontation would be the most interesting at any given point.  Much less about fighting and more about talking.  I gave more time to characters introduced later in the story who would have most benefitted from exposition and self-awareness opportunities, and usually chose winners based on what would be the most dramatic or powerful storytelling.  For instance, I'll leave you all with a bit of fan-fiction:

-------------------

Parse crept across the arena, arrow in hand.  Her eyes darted from obstacle to obstacle, her every sense alert to the slightest hint of motion.  "I know you well, robot.  I've studied your code.  Every algorithm, every subroutine.  I can anticipate every move you make, every move you are capable of making.  This can only end one way."

"Well-reasoned, Kim Howell," the mechanical voice echoed from a point not far away.  Parse was instantly in motion.  "Your calculations are flawless, as always.  But any calculation will fail when based on false assumptions."

Parse was only half-listening; the voice emanated from just beyond the next pile of crates.  She crept along quietly as the voice continued.  "You know my computer programming, yes, the code of Omnitron.  But I am not Omnitron anymore.  I am Omnitron-U.  The "U" comes from Unity.  My friend.  She is a part of me now.  And that part is human."

The arrow flew from Parse's hand and struck true with a satisfying crunch of machinery.  But what was it she'd hit?  She picked it up.  Part of a... toy dinosaur?  Why would a robot.... Belatedly, she realized what Omnitron-U had been saying.  Of course, no computer would have thought of such a diversion, given the limited resources in the arena.  He stood behind her now, weapons bristling.  She raised her hands in surrender.

"Our friends are always a part of us, Kim Howell."  The voice, slightly garbled now, still came from the toy.  Omnitron-U reached around, took a component out of it, and inserted it under his "chin."  "It is a lesson I am still learning."

"I never had any friends," Parse murmured, half to herself, still not really thinking of the robot as a person.

"Perhaps it is time for that to change, Kim.  But for now, it is time for you to return home."

LI
liarliar
2017-10-28 00:03 UTC
#35

That is extremely cool fanfic! I used some of the same reasoning, which is my I had Unity fight Sky-Scraper and win, purely because it would be so cool :D

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-10-28 03:52 UTC
#36

I forgot that we knew Visionary and AA fought here and Visionary lost so that Argent could expel Dark Visionary. Good catch FrivYeti

 

And yeah, pretty sure Gloom Spite beats Heartbreaker, but I don't think he beats the blood magic fueled devourer, good chance he gets bits of him eaten off.... hmmm... what are the odds that Spite's drugs have any effect on the Mystic Bugbear? Probably doesn't matter, Bugbear is too scary of a villain. He single-handled runs Naturalist ragged after all, he's not losing to Zombie Spite... but it is Spite we're talking about here... AGH the more I think about it the more indecisive I become with that match.

 

Another one I can't figure is Gloomweaver vs Akash'thriya. Akash is incredibly powerful, so she has good odds. I think the reason I give it to her though is actually because of Lifeline. We know one of the big climatic moments of the Skinwalker event (Which happens really close to the cosmic contest because everyone is wrapping up storylines) is Lifeline ripping apart skinwalker. That cannot happen in the contest then, because it would be a spoiler for the end of Skinwalker.

 

Skinwalker loses early, against Akash'Thriya, Lifeline wins against Hermitic and probably the Blood Countess. He's a Blood MAge much like they are only he's older and actually a hero. I think we end up with Akash beating Biomancer, and then Lifeline vs Akash'Thriya, which should be a relatively interesting match, seeing as how Lifeline tried to kill the earth and Akash is the earth in a lot of ways. Not sure who pulls out that victory though.

 

 

TA
TakeWalker
2017-10-28 12:20 UTC
#37

I just kinda figure that both Progeny and Skinwalker took huge efforts by multiple groups of heroes to be defeated, so on their own, they're gonna steamroll everything in their path.

In fact, I think I had it come down to the two of them in the final and then I just guessed. :B

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-10-28 15:59 UTC
#38

The last Skinwalker took that much effort, with Rotting God being part of that, but Skinwalker Gloomweaver has appeared multiple times before his final event, most of them less powerful than his final version working with Gloom Spite.

 

Also, Dawn is stated as one of the most powerful beings on the planet... I bet her and Progeny fight and I'm not sure who would win that. She's actually got a decent chance of pulling that off doesn't she?

PC
Princess_Cool
2017-10-28 22:35 UTC
#39

One of my friends actually had Dawn beating Progeny in the second round, seeing as how she managed to pull off an attack that fazed Oblivaeon I can kind of see it, but would ultimately go with Progeny.

TB
The_Blue-Eyed_Bard
2017-10-29 01:47 UTC
#40

I know this is terrible to have to ask, but I've been unable to listen to the podcast since its release date. When's the deadline for this?

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 04:33 UTC
#41

i just relistened to it, and even i didn't pick that up.

LI
liarliar
2017-10-29 04:48 UTC
#42

The only thing I noticed was that they'll be announcing the winners during the Cosmic Contest episode, in December. So it sounds like we've got a while to discuss the possibilities!

(I've sent mine in already, but uh...never mind that)

PC
Princess_Cool
2017-10-29 05:30 UTC
#43

I sent mine in 3 times!

...There were email related problems...

DP
dpt
2017-10-29 07:38 UTC
#44

Do we have any information about what the prize in universe is? How does Janna did Vedero get them to fight?

TS
The_Burning_Stickman
2017-10-29 12:08 UTC
#45

Honestly the whole thing confuses me, because I can't think of a reason Jansa would do this in the first place.

Kaargra, I could see, but Jansa? I thought she was all about preservation, so her conscripting everybody into a largely-pointless fight doesn't make sense to me.

TA
TakeWalker
2017-10-29 12:14 UTC
#46

Well, you can't have the last of a species if the species isn't in the process of being destroyed. Can you blame her for being proactive? :V

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-29 12:17 UTC
#47

My best guess story wise is that since she knew OblivAeon was coming and wanted to know if the heroes/villains stood a chance.  This contest would give her a better idea and a possible champion to take OblivAeon on.  She probably also wanted to see what Lifeline might be capable of since he has had shown willlingness to try to prevent this previously.  

JE
Jeysie
2017-10-29 12:30 UTC
#48

I sort of agree with Powerhound, in that I think she knew OblivAeon was coming and wanted to determine potential candidates for Endlings, specifically, by having them both best each other and potential non-human threats and see who came out on top.

TB
The_Blue-Eyed_Bard
2017-10-29 18:02 UTC
#49

Appreciate the response. Still going to try my hand at getting it done today.

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-10-29 18:19 UTC
#50

Honestly, my gut says that whatever reasoning w're going to get for the contest and the potential prize is going to be... a little weak.

 

Much like the "Fanatic tries all religions" story, I feel this is a story based more on C&A's love of comics and recognizing which comics would absolutely happen than it being a major part of the plot.

 

People always want a "everyone vs everyone tournament where my favorite can prove their the best" tournament, so it was going to happen before Oblivaeon. And Jansa is one of the only beings powerful enough to gather everyone and keep them there to make it actually work.

 

I keep going back and forth on the Haka and Ra fight. Assuming Ra can deal enough damage to knock Haka out (can't kill him but he doens't need to) is easy enough, but can Ra take a pummeling from Haka? He can potentially keep him at a distance for a while, but Haka is smart and ridiculously strong, how many punches would it take to knock out the God of the Sun? I mean, Ra can take on Geb, so he can take a pummeling, but no one tops Haka in pure muscle.

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 18:39 UTC
#51

I think Haka not only has the muscle and the fortitude to take down Ra, but he also has a cooler head on his shoulders.

Ra is more of a 'hot-head' and would take more needles risks, letting Haka get in the chance he needs to knock him out.

NE
neoadvent89
2017-10-29 18:57 UTC
#52

I was stuck on Haka and Legacy for a bit. Finally settled on legacy.

TS
The_Burning_Stickman
2017-10-29 18:59 UTC
#53

... Looking at the starting bracket again, I think I know just how Miss Information ends up taking over the mantle of Glamour.

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 19:14 UTC
#54

Haka vs Legacy is one I'm on the fence about.

Yeah, Legacy is 'The All-American Hero of Heroes', but it's been said that Haka is indeed stronger than him, and I have a feeling Haka is a much better trained fighter. Legacy seems like the extent of his fighting style is 'Flying-tackle it, then punch it til it sees stars.'

PA
padcurtin
2017-10-29 19:24 UTC
#55

Legacy has been fighting all his adult life, plus he knew that he would develop powers as a child , I see him as a guy who knows how to use his strength. He'll as IL he defeats everybody by himself. If he was motivated in the cosmic contest , he could beat haka 

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 19:31 UTC
#56

True, Legacy has been fighting all his adult life, but you can say the same for Haka. And his 'adult life' is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than Legacy. I'd be surprised if Legacy saw a quarter's worth of the weird stuff Haka has.

As for IL beating Haka, one has to remember that was a version of Legacy that was willing to kill for his sense of 'justice', and therefore is more willing to go for the killing blow. Also, from what I remember of the Letters Page, IL knew he wouldn't be able to kill Haka, so he had to dump him into the bottom of the ocean encased in stone and such…

JE
Jeysie
2017-10-29 19:37 UTC
#57

It should be noted this contest was clearly not (meant to be, anyway) any sort of serious injury, since it was mentioned on the podcast that the art for Hippocratic Oath was Dr. Medico patching Chrono and Expat up after their Cosmic Contest brawl.

PA
padcurtin
2017-10-29 19:54 UTC
#58

I have this general rule that somebody with FISS beats someone who is missing one of those three things, for example Legacy' s ability to fly gives an advantage over both Haka and Mainstay. How do either of them stop legacy from picking them up and leaving them somewhere they can't return from fast enough so that they get counted out ?

TS
The_Burning_Stickman
2017-10-29 19:55 UTC
#59

I've got the sense that the heroes are more inclined to hold back than the villains would be.

Haka vs. Legacy, I could see them treating that as a sparring match.

I've got a feeling that, say, Miss Info vs. Glamour is to the death (barring some deliberate intervention on Jansa's part to make sure everybody plays nice).

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 19:59 UTC
#60

...That just made me realize something. Shouldn't the Dr. Medico we see on Hypocratic Oath be the Void Guard version?

 

PA
padcurtin
2017-10-29 20:06 UTC
#61

That could be explained by the whole suddenly changing uniform thing that was done with the skinwalker event, bad communication within the Bullpen

PH
Phantom5613
2017-10-29 20:11 UTC
#62

I suppose. But to have the same blunder with the writers/artists twice? ;P

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-29 20:18 UTC
#63

C&A have said on the podcast that costumes are applied very inconsistently. It’s Void Guard Dr. Medico for sure, but the fact that he’s not in the Void Guard (or even the Adamant) costume doesn’t mean anything and is not technically an error.

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-10-30 02:54 UTC
#64

 

While true, you could also look at it in terms of ratios, after all skills you don't use tend to rust and all that.

 

Legacy really hasn't had a day job or anything beyond the fighting of evil since his father died at the hands of Baron Blade.

 

Haka has lived centuries, but he's spent just as long as a dockworker or walking Asia or teaching small children the alphabet as he has fighting. And since he rarely seeks out evil and stays low-key enough that most of the biggest bruisers don't tangle with him, he hasn't dealt with people who can injury him nearly as often as Legacy has.

 

Legacy might be more prepared to win a fight where he is the underdog than Haka is to win a fight that is nearly even (or at least as close to even as Haka can actually face) But still, it is a very close match

AL
Arcanist_Lupus
2017-10-30 03:36 UTC
#65

That might make sense (and I vaguely recall C&A saying something like that in an earlier episode… except then it makes absolutely zero sense that Progeny is present.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-10-30 12:33 UTC
#66

My guess is a known test of OblivAeon.  Overall, a lot of the villains besides don’t make sense as a defender against OblivAeon.  However, that is the best story reason I can think of.   We will know for sure in December. 

EH
Ehkrickor
2017-10-30 14:51 UTC
#67

 

Honestly I'm still hung up on who wins that match. There are a couple things throwing me for a loop on who comes out on top and both of them are, unsurprisingly, character related comments Christopher made about Haka. First Haka LOVES fighting, Particularly when it's against an opponent he can cut loose against. Which in a narrative particulary in a tournament tends to give characters an edge. (IE: the only reason Goku keeps beating Vegeta)

 

Second, Haka is the person that our paragon's look up to. Legecy is the American Ideal in the Sentinels Verse, everyone looks up to him… and he looks up to Haka. However, that second point sets up fantastic narative paths for either of them to win, either Haka finally gets his good fight and everyone sees how strong he really is, which now that I type it out doesn't seem very Haka. Christopher did say "It's never the Haka show."

The other narrative branch i see from that is Legacy wins, barely, against a man that he looks up to and always has. Then gets a kind of father figure moment with Haka after the fight, before moving on into the rest of the tournament. Seems like a good tear jerker moment to infuse a bit more emotion into what boils down to the usual nerd debate. Something that would be particularly poingiant since the Sentinels Comics writers(The fictional ones not Christopher and Adam) knew at this point what would be happening to Haka but didn't have the Tactics timeline where he comes back in mind yet. That type of scene could also Galvanze(heh) Legacy to move on to the second round of the tourney 

 

RA
Rabit
2017-10-31 00:58 UTC
#68

Submitted ours. We had fun thinking through the story aspects, playing a little meta in looking ahead at what combinations might come out of the different potential wins. We tried to be mostly realistic about our picks, but at the same time making sure the stories that came out of them were interesting and potentially important / entertaining. 

No expectations we are even close, though – just had a fun evening going through the options!  :sunglasses:

TB
The_Blue-Eyed_Bard
2017-10-31 01:25 UTC
#69

Well, my four-year old thinks Omnitron is going to win, and my three-year old is banking on Unity. For some reason, I'm more confident in each of their brackets than I am in my own...

AR
Ario
2017-10-31 01:29 UTC
#70

I haven't settled on my full line-up, but on seeing the match-ups I instantly locked into one battle and came to the opposite conclusion of everyone else: I think Legacy loses against Fanatic. 

To me, it makes the most sense, and if I'm wrong I hope there's a more involved answer than: he's the most popular, or "America!," fine answers though they may be. 

Legacy losing in the first round sends a real signal that anything can happen in this contest which keeps readers interesting. In-story I think Fanatic has more reasons to go all-in on the contest sooner than does Legacy (or, more accurately, I think Fanatic cares less about not going all-in.) 

At the moment I have Writhe winning the tech tier (though I may flip to Parse,) and I think Progeny gets quickly dismissed by Zhu Long to show how much of a threat he is.

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-31 01:51 UTC
#71

I think Legacy will lose that one, too.  No one wants to see more "Legacy beats everyone" stories this late in the game, and Fanatic winning sets up for a fight between her and Ra (which will set up for the death of Ra shortly--one reason he "believed in her" might be because she trounced him here).  I also think Fanatic will fight Tempest, because if the writers passed up an opportunity to have a cover featuring Fanatic and Tempest, with their energy-imbued swords clashing, they're idiots.

I think Progeny will lose surprisingly early, too.  He's a big dumb brute and not very interesting except to showcase how strong someone will have to be to beat him.  Zhu Long is a good guess (big epic comic book cover showing silver titan vs. Chinese dragon) but my money is on Infinitor (big epic cover between silver titan and the giant green monstrosity seen on Heroic Infinitor's flip side).  I think new characters, and ones with new "transformations" or new plot lines that just started or are coming up, will get more time than old, dormant villains like Zhu Long.

Void Guard is throwing me off because we don't know much about how they fight and how interesting they'll be.  We know that they're stupid powerful, but I don't know if they're interesting enough to watch in this setting.  I have no idea how Dr. Medico even hurts anyone (although we do know he can trap Gloomweaver, and Nightmist has a related power set) and he may just refuse, especially if he knows he might have to fight Idealist if he wins.  And if Medico "loses," Nightmist vs. Harpy is way too interesting to pass up.  Mainstay has too many more interesting matchups in his bracket to last long.  I think Writhe has a good chance (though Benchmark is, ironically, a dark horse), and with the new mandate that Void Guard be deeply involved in the main Multiverse storyline, he might be the best shot at lasting until the final bracket.

TB
The_Blue-Eyed_Bard
2017-10-31 15:54 UTC
#72

Hm, that's right. I was banking on Idealist vs. Visionary. Harpy vs. Nightmist is just as over-the-top. 

You guys are really making me second guess my bracketing...

MC
McBehrer
2017-10-31 20:46 UTC
#73

Also, this is after Progeny, so Tachyon is not at the top of her game. Just something I feel like people are overlooking.

That, along with Mainstay’s general beefiness, makes him a clear winner for me.

Also we know Argent beats Visionary.

I don’t know how Ra would beat Haka, but defeat doesn’t necessarily mean kill. Given how he can basically manifest the sun (Flesh, Scorched Earth, Solar Flare) he could go all in and keep Haka from ever touching him. Meanwhile Fanatic doesn’t feel pain, so such an approach wouldn’t work for her.

MI
MindWanderer
2017-10-31 21:56 UTC
#74

A good point, but I don't think it even matters.  Void Guard Mainstay is absurdly powerful and will definitely beat her in a straightforward battle in limited circumstances.  But we don't know if that's the setup here, probably not.  In which case she can make use of her reduced but still considerable speed and, more importantly, her brains, to win.

Also, we know that ultimately she's the one who defeats Progeny when he returns in his gold Scion form.  Winning here foreshadows her being able to beat a much larger and stronger opponent under the right conditions.  Not to mention setting up for a Tempest vs. Tachyon grudge rematch.

We know he beats Dark Visionary.  While I agree with you that this probably means he's declared the winner and moves on, it's not impossible that he's left substantially drained and forced to consider Visionary Unleashed, brimming with new power, as the opponent he has to beat to move on.

WE
Wexiomatic
2017-10-31 23:31 UTC
#75

See, as cool as the void guard are, I just don't see any of them getting very far. The farthest a void guard member gets in my bracket is Writhe, and Unity bests in him in the final round of the tech bracket. Every other voidguard looses round one (especially for Tachyon I feel she needs to advance to get her grudge rematch against tempest for the Bloodsworn Colliseum Event).

I also think Legacy is going to have an upset fight one and lose to fanatic. It's a really a matter of who's heart is in it, and I just don't see Legacy having the same fire to win as Fanatic, especially since he's so used to playing support to the Freedom Five. It's been implied the FF are a really close team and don't often do stuff by themselves, whereas the prime wardens often operate independently. This does bring up the issue of whether Haka will lose to Ra to make a Fanatic vs Ra match happen, something that would be awesome story wise, but I don't currently have in my bracket just because Haka is Haka and is very hard to beat.

I think the hardest choices in my bracket are how far Zhu Long gets, can Progeny be beaten, and the winner of the Bruiser bracket. Personally, I actually saw Zhu Long loosing round one because he doesn't seem like the type to be interested in a fight like this. I feel like he'd bow out or fake the loss just so he could observe the rest of the fights.

As for Progeny, I actually think Citizen Dawn can beat him, or at least incapacitate him. She has been stated to be MASSIVELY powerful, enough to hurt Oblivaeon, and she has a drive and ambition unmatched in sentinels. If anyone could take out Progeny, it's her. Plus, I really think her upcoming matches against Kaargra and Baron Blade in my bracket would be AMAZING to watch.

Finally, the operative taking the bbruiser racket is mostly based on her skill and effectiveness of her poisons. Fixer stated in her card texts her weapons have a fatal poison, but is it enough to take out both plague rat and bugear? Would PR just be immune to poison since his body is a toxic mess? Would bugbear just be able to regenerate any damage done to it? I think she would be a great match for the martial winner (Expat in my bracket), and seems to be a popular favorite in the sentinels comics world (certainly more than PR and BB), but if she doesn't win, does Bugbear? Does Plague Rat? Looking for some real feedback on this one.

Anyways, those are my two cents about the Contest. I got Blade going all the way beating AA in the final round, which kicks him into playing the hero for the events of Oblivaeon.

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-11-01 23:03 UTC
#76

I think operative wins against Steel. Plague Rat beats Fright Train (the train is tough, but the rat is toxic and vicious) And then Operative loses to Plague Rat, her poisons are definetly useless against it.

 

I'm actually curious if Bugbear can beat Spite, but I think both of them have a decent chance of beating the rat. Not sure how it all shakes out though.

LI
liarliar
2017-11-02 03:31 UTC
#77

I agree with Chaosmancer, I had the exact same picks for that side of the bracket - partly for coolness reasons, as I think it'd be great to see the Operative coldly taking down Steel (maybe call him a stupid animal into the bargain, heh) and then be crushed by the Rat's poison immunity.

I thought I'd add something to the fan-content for this competition: Tempest and Tachyon facing off! (I really hope I uploaded the picture right, but if it goes wrong, I posted the full size version on tumblr, at: http://myopinionisimportant.tumblr.com/post/167036470005/in-honour-of-the-cosmic-contest-tempest-defeating

 

TW
The_Almighty_Weasel
2017-11-08 02:00 UTC
#78

Aww, man...

This is exactly the sort of thing I love, but I can't do it. So much in every fight depends on context! We can't be looking at a Blank White Room series of fights, which would completely sabotage the Tech Tier and even the Cunning Tier to an extent, but what do we have instead? And how much are the participants compelled to fight to the best of their ability? Aargh! I can't even!

WA
WalkingTarget
2017-11-11 13:51 UTC
#79

I can’t be the only person who remembers the Kickstarter from a few years ago that would have featured the Cosmic Contest comic itself, right? I mean, I’m not sure if we can take the game mechanics or box art into account when considering CC rules (game seems to be teams after all), but it does involve environments (and Legacy/Spite and Revenant/Sky-Scraper matchups).

If nothing else, I think it’s worth bringing up for the comic cover art.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-11-11 14:48 UTC
#80

At the least that cover implies a hero wins.  

MA
Matchstickman
2017-11-11 15:01 UTC
#81

Every villain is the hero of their own story...

CH
Chaosmancer
2017-11-11 17:37 UTC
#82

I think that Story War was a different thing from Cosmic Conflict, plus, while it isn't always reliable to go off of, that is normal Spite, not Gloom Spite who we know was in Cosmic Contest.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-11-11 23:40 UTC
#83

The comic being purposed for the Story War is the same one they are going to be talking about next month.  

MC
McBehrer
2017-11-12 00:00 UTC
#84

Right, but Legacy fighting Spite isn’t from the comic, it’s from Story War.

I have a long write-up about my decisions, but long story short, my Tier winners are

Tempest
Writhe
NightMist
ExPatriette
Citizen Dawn
Baron Blade
Lifeline
Operative

From there, we have
Citizen Dawn
Writhe
Lifeline
Operative

Finals is
Citizen Dawn
Lifeline

And Lifeline pulls out a surprising win against Dawn.

RA
Raccoonoo
2017-11-12 17:09 UTC
#85

My theory was that Jansa was holding a tournament to determine which Earthling she was going to save and take with her to her pocket dimension, since all of them were about to be erased from existance.

Preserving things is kind of her whole deal.

The appearance of fighters like Tagorath and Progeny muddies that theory, because one of them is someone she's already preserved and the other is the head of an unstoppable being of destruction, who Jansa probably doesn't want around.

Still, when your purpose in life is "I'm only going to save one member of your species before it dies." it's not a huge leap of logic to go to "I'm only going to save one champion from your planet before everything ceases to exist."

That motivation would also let writers continue hyping up Oblivaeon. Because even in the universe where Sentinel Comics is a thing, Oblivaeon hype never stops.

(I only now see I was on the wrong page when I made that comment and the discussion has moved on. Whoops.)

JE
Jeysie
2017-11-12 23:42 UTC
#86

It's all right, since that's more or less my theory as well. I always just figured that she included Lifeline and Progeny and the other non-human participants in there as well to be "prove your worth" type challengers.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-11-30 16:22 UTC
#87

According to the Editor’s Note today Cosmic Contest entries are due Dec 6th

RJ
rjc917
2017-12-04 19:34 UTC
#88

I think the hardest tiers in this for me were Martial and Bruiser.  The one I submitted has The Wraith and Spite winning, but now I'm second guessing that.  For Martial, I can't decide if Wraith or Fixer should win (both their match and the whole tier).  I put Wraith, because I wanted to have someone from each hero team in the final round and she was the only one from the Freedom Five who really stood a chance in my opinion.  Plus she had to beat Fixer, Expat, and Setback to get there, so it was basically Wraith vs Dark Watch, which seemed pretty cool.  Except I kind of think DW Fixer would beat her.  But then having him fight his teammates in the next rounds is something that's already been done.  Unless you have him lose to Expat this time which sets up Expat vs Setback, which would be really cool, but then I'm back to the same problem of I don't think Expat could beat Fixer.

And then my Bruiser outcome is sort of contingent on Martial.  If Wraith wins, I have her end of fighting Spite, and if Fixer wins he fights the Operative.  Although I could easily see Bugbear taking that category too.

JE
Jeysie
2017-12-07 06:28 UTC
#89

Now that the deadline is passed, what did everyone submit for their final entries?

I think I snuck mine in just under the wire, but it went so many weird places that it's probably not even close to right anyway, so even if I didn't I won't cry too much. Since I totally went the "set everyone up with their nemeses, reprisal matches, and/or thematically tragic matches as much as possible" route.

RA
Rabit
2017-12-07 13:19 UTC
#90

We took a similar route, looking for interesting thematic matches, with the guess that Nightmist wins overall, allowing Jansa to provide her with a spark of inspiration to look to other realities for assistance against the threat to come…

We also included specific pairings where we wanted to facilitate things that happen leading into OblivAeon, such as Sky-Scraper vs Baron Blade (where he'll be inspired to come up with devices that make her even more powerful). 

Like you said, not likely any of this is even close, but it provided an evening of entertainment for us, working through the brackets.  :sunglasses:

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2017-12-07 13:55 UTC
#91

Okay so here's my full breakdown:

Champion Tier:

Haka > Ra; Legacy > Fanatic; Tachyon > Mainstay; Tempest > Captain Cosmic

Haka > Legacy; Tachyon > Tempest

Haka > Tempest

Tech Tier:

Writhe > Bunker; Absolute Zero > Benchmark; Unity > Omnitron; Parse > Sky-Scraper

Writhe > Absolute Zero; Unity > Parse

Unity > Writhe

Mystic Tier:

Idealist > Harpy; Nightmist > Medico; Visionary > Scholar; Argent Adept > Naturalist

Nightmist > Idealist; Visionary > Argent Adept

Nightmist > Argent Adept

Martial Tier:

Mr. Fixer > Wraith; Chrono-Ranger > Expatriette; KNYFE > Stuntman; Setback > Guise

Fixer > Chrono-Ranger; KNYFE > Setback

Fixer > KNYFE

Conquerer Tier:

Infinitor > Chokepoint; Zhu Long > Kaargra Warfang; Citizen Dawn > La Capitan; Progeny > Apostate

Zhu Long > Infinitor; Progeny > Citizen Dawn

Progeny > Zhu Long

Cunning Tier: 

Baron Blade > Highbrow; Chairman > Kismet; Miss Information > Glamour; Green Grosser > Ermine

Blade > Chairman; Miss Information > Green Grosser

Blade > Miss Information

Eldritch Tier:

Lifeline > Hermetic; Set > Blood Countess; Gloomweaver > Akash'Thriya; Biomancer > Isis

Set > Lifeline; Gloomweaver > Biomancer

Gloomweaver > Set

Bruiser Tier:

Plague Rat > Freight Train; Operative > Sgt. Steel; Bugbear > Proletariat; Spite > Heartbreaker

Operative > Plague Rat; Spite > Bugbear

Operative > Spite

Final Round:

Progeny > Haka; Baron Blade > Unity; Nightmist > Gloomweaver; Mister Fixer > Operative

Baron Blade > Progeny; Nightmist > Fixer

Blade > Nightmist

Final Winner:  Baron Blade

 

Looking back, I might have ranked Blood Countess a little more strongly---since this was before the blood magic episode, I treated her like a "normal" vampire, rather than one that is immune to pretty much everything outside of black poplar and eldritch sacrifice.  I'd have also not put Biomancer winning even one match; there's just no evidence for him to hold up in a combat like this. I'm also on the fence about KNYFE over Setback, but I went with experience and grit over dumb luck.

TB
The_Blue-Eyed_Bard
2017-12-07 20:11 UTC
#92

I had to change things up a few times. Once they made it clear that the Void Guard were OPAF, it was hard to justify most folks beating them.

My little ones and the missus decided to get in on the fun. If I recall, for some stranger reason, I had Lifeline win. My four-year old picked Guise (who he calls "Funny Daddy" when we play) win, my three-year old picked Unity (who is her favorite to run around pretending to be), and the missus backed up the Guise nomination, after a showdown versus Baron Blade.

I'm almost as excited to see these results as I am irritated about being absolutely sure of 0% of them. -_-

MI
MindWanderer
2017-12-07 22:11 UTC
#93

Yeah, I was initially literally thinking of this as a "who would beat who in a fight," but knowing it was also a comic book series that would need to sell issues and advance the plot, I gave very different answers.  I ended up with someone I consider one of the weakest characters in the multiverse (Expatriette) winning, because I thought it made for the best story.  Based on sheer power, I would have placed Void Guard and Progeny, among others, much more highly.

TA
TakeWalker
2017-12-08 00:38 UTC
#94

All I remember is I had Progeny as the knock-out win. I'm not sure how anyone else could beat him head-on, though my final matchup was Skinweaver/Progeny, and that was a real head-scratcher, let me tell you.

MI
MindWanderer
2017-12-08 00:51 UTC
#95

With the story-based approach, I figured Progeny had to be taken out fairly early, since he's just a big dumb brute.  I couldn't justify him losing to Apostate, of course, and neither La Capitan (who isn't particularly powerful by herself in a straightforward engagement) or Citizen Dawn (who's a one-trick pony, when the tricks to beating him are versatility and endurance) seemed likely.

Zhu Long and Infinitor seemed promising, though.  We don't know much about Zhu Long's combat ability, but he's smart as heck, can deal several different damage types, and turns into a huge honking dragon.  Infinitor may be nuts, but his manifestations can do just about anything (not just multiple damage types, but might also restrain Progeny or do other stuff), plus, my reasoning at the time went, he can also encase himself in one giant manifestation that looks like it could go toe-to-toe with Progeny.  I picked Infinitor.

I was pretty darn happy when I got through the Captain Cosmic podcast episode.  Avoiding spoilers because it's recent and not that thread, but revelations therein made it seem a lot more likely that Infinitor and Progeny would be evenly matched, plus the psychological aspect of it works out dramatically.  I could still easily be wrong but I'm comfortable with my choice.

I personally don't see how Skinwalker Gloomweaver would have a chance against Progeny.  It's not the Rotting God form, just his front side, which isn't a huge threat.  Lifeline or the Blood Countess could make short work of him for sure (as Lifeline does in fact, very soon).

DP
dprcooke
2017-12-08 02:43 UTC
#96

I went mainly with a mainly story-focused approach, though keeping in mind certain power levels/fighting abilities…

Void Guard all advanced at least to the 2nd round, since they are OP (and I also wanted to set up a round 2 match between Medeco and Idealist for story purposes), while the F5 are fully eliminated after round 2. (Anything can happen now!)

For the martial tier, I specifically set up a round 2 March between Expat and Fixer, to mirror the fight between them all those years ago… A fight which Expat wins to show how far she’s come. (I then have her losing to KNYFE, which looking back on now I’m not 100% convinced about).

Haka does very well, given that the man LOVES single combat and is in his element here. Progeny plows through everyone, until he loses to Haka. After not being able to even slow Progeny down during the Progeny fight, I wanted to give Haka some redemption here. However, the fight leaves him in rough enough shape that Baron Blade is able to beat him.

I gave final victory to the Baron… Since he basically hasn’t been seen in comics since the Vengeance event, I wanted him to show as surprisingly good in the fight, and also to give some serious weight to his hero turn that’s about to come up in OblivAeon.

Detailed picks are below:

Champion Tier
Haka
Legacy
Mainstay
Tempest

Haka
Mainstay

Haka

Tech Tier
Writhe
Absolute Zero
Onmitron
Parse

Writhe
Parse

Writhe

Mystic Tier
Idealist
Doctor Medico
Visionary
Argent Adept

Idealist
Visionary

Visionary

Martial Tier
Mr Fixer
Expatriette
KNYFE
Setback

Expatriete
KNYFE

KNYFE

Conqueror Tier
Infinitor
Zhu Long
Citizen Dawn
Progeny

Zhu Long
Progeny

Progeny

Cunning Tier
Baron Blade
Kismet
Miss Information
Green Grosser

Baron Blade
Miss Information

Baron Blade

Eldritch Tier
Lifeline
Blood Counters
Gloomweaver
Isis

Blood Countess
Gloomweaver

Gloomweaver

Bruiser Tier
Fright Train
Operative
Proletariat
Spite

Operative
Proletariat

Operative

Final Round Fighters
Haka
Progeny
Writhe
Baron Blade
Visionary
Gloomweaver
KNYFE
Operative

Final Round Winners
Haka
Baron Blade
Visionary
Operative

Baron Blade
Visionary

Baron Blade

TA
TakeWalker
2017-12-08 12:32 UTC
#97

Haka's another character where it's like, how can you beat him? His best match is probably Legacy early on, and Legacy wouldn't be nearly as into the whole "fight between heroes" thing as Haka. Dude just loves fighting that much, plus he's, y'know, unkillable. I figure matches would have to go until one combatant is incapcitated, and Haka doesn't exactly insta-rez, so it's possible to beat him, but still.

RJ
rjc917
2017-12-08 14:22 UTC
#98

So here's something I just thought of:  If Jansa is able to collect all of these people and get them to fight each other in this contest...why doesn't she do that with OblivAeon's scions?  She already does it with Progeny here, so she should be able to.  And removing all of OblivAeon's scions and forcing them to fight each other would make the battle against OblivAeon a whole lot easier.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2017-12-08 14:24 UTC
#99

We probably will have some comic book logic coming up in that episode as to why she couldn’t do that.  

MA
Matchstickman
2017-12-08 14:46 UTC
#100

If I were wildly speculating I would say that OblivAeon and Jansa have an agreement to let her whisk Progeny away, Jansa gets ... whatever it is she wants (probably to show Blood/Lifeline that power needs to be tempered) and OblivAeon gets to see how the heroes do when facing off against the new Progeny.

Jansa can't do it later because OblivAeon doesn't let it happen.

WA
WalkingTarget
2017-12-11 14:55 UTC
#101

Champion Tier
Haka
Legacy
Tachyon
Tempest
---
Haka
Tempest
---
Haka

Tech Tier
Writhe
Absolute Zero
Unity
Parse
---
Writhe
Parse
---
Writhe

Mystic Tier
Idealist
Doctor Medico
Scholar
Argent Adept
---
Idealist
Scholar
---
Idealist

Martial Tier
Mr Fixer
Chrono-Ranger
Stuntman
Setback
---
Mr. Fixer
Setback
---
Mr. Fixer

Conqueror Tier
Infinitor
Zhu Long
Citizen Dawn
Progeny
---
Zhu Long
Progeny
---
Zhu Long

Cunning Tier
Baron Blade
Kismet
Miss Information
Ermine
---
Baron Blade
Miss Information
---
Baron Blade

Eldritch Tier
Lifeline
Blood Counters
Akash'Thriya
Isis
---
Blood Countess
Isis
---
Blood Countess

Bruiser Tier
Fright Train
Operative
Proletariat
Spite
---
Operative
Proletariat
---
Operative

Final Round Fighters
Haka
Zhu Long
Writhe
Baron Blade
Idealist
Blood Countess
Mr. Fixer
Operative

Final Round Winners
Zhu Long
Baron Blade
Blood Countess
Mr. Fixer
---
Zhu Long
Mr. Fixer
---
Mr. Fixer

I only made a few changes to my initial instincts after I saw some potential as things developed. Look at that last bracket for my champion: Mr. Fixer grudge matches against the Operative, the head vampire, and Zhu Long. Just too perfect for the martial-arts tournament story that I wound up turning this into in my head. I don't even care how much of a chance this has of actually being correct at this point, I just had fun coming up with it.

TR
Trajector
2017-12-12 01:22 UTC
#102

So for Haka vs Legacy, I ended up going by who I thought would throw the match first, and therefore decided Legacy won.

I filled out the whole thing by gut feel, and Parse came out as champion. That’s not who I would have picked from the whole lineup, but I’m okay with it.

RJ
rjc917
2017-12-12 04:34 UTC
#103

Here's my picks with plenty of commentary below:

Champion Tier
Ra
Fanatic
Tachyon
Tempest
---
Fanatic
Tempest
---
Tempest

Tech Tier
Writhe
Benchmark
Unity
Parse
---
Writhe
Parse
---
Writhe

Mystic Tier
The Harpy
Nightmist
Visionary
Argent Adept
---
Nightmist
Argent Adept
---
Nightmist

Martial Tier
The Wraith
Expatriette
K.N.Y.F.E.
Setback
---
The Wraith
Setback
---
The Wraith

Conqueror Tier
Infinitor
Kaargra Warfang
Citizen Dawn
Progeny
---
Infinitor
Citizen Dawn
---
Citizen Dawn

Cunning Tier
Baron Blade
Kismet
Miss Information
Ermine
---
Baron Blade
Miss Information
---
Baron Blade

Eldritch Tier
Lifeline
Blood Countess
Gloomweaver
Biomancer
---
Lifeline
Gloomweaver
---
Lifeline

Bruiser Tier
Plague Rat
The Operative
Bugbear
Spite
---
Plague Rat
Spite
---
Spite

Final Round Fighters
Tempest
Citizen Dawn
Writhe
Baron Blade
Nightmist
Lifeline
The Wraith
Spite

Final Round Winners
Citizen Dawn
Baron Blade
Lifeline
The Wraith
---
Citizen Dawn
Lifeline
---
Lifeline

I had Lifeline win because my guess was that the point of the story (other than selling a ton of comics) was for Lifeline to prove to Jansa and everyone else that he's a hero now and can protect the world from OblivAeon instead of just destroying it in the hopes that OblivAeon would ignore it then.  (I just realized Deadline's plan was basically to have the Earth play dead.)  I think the fact that he's in the villains' bracket despite using his hero name indicates that the transition is still taking place, and this contest would be a great place to show his transformation into a hero.

My next priority was having one member from each hero team (Freedom Five, Dark Watch, Prime Wardens, and Void Guard) in the Final Round.  I'm not sure to what extent people are fans of hero teams as opposed to just individual heroes in the Sentinel Comics Publishing universe, but it seemed like the writers would have wanted to do their best to give everyone someone to root for through the end of the contest.  I mentioned in an earlier post, that this was my main reason for giving the Martial Tier to The Wraith, despite the fact that I think Mr. Fixer would win if we were just considering the combat aspect.  Writhe seems like a sure bet to win Tech Tier, with only Parse possibly threatening him (but she has no team to represent).  Tempest was my Prime Wardens representative partially because Tempest is my favorite (as I told my friend, "Tempest is my boy!  Well, technically Tempest has no gender.")  and if The Wraith won Martial Tier, that left Nightmist or Harpy as the only possible representatives for Dark Watch, and I had to give that one to the teacher rather than the student.

As far as the rest of the bracket, my main focus was on creating interesting stories, although there are a couple things I might change.  I really didn't want to have Haka lose right away (my first draft had him winning the Champion Tier, since he basically can't die, but then I realized these aren't going to be fights to the death, so it became much less of a factor), but Ra vs Fanatic seemed too good to pass up, especially just before their touching scene in the OblivAeon event.  I think Fanatic is capable of going toe-to-toe with Legacy, and with her passion, she's not going to give up, while Legacy would be willing to give her the win.  Despite Void Guard being supposedly OP, I also wanted to set up a Tempest vs Tachyon rematch.  Finally, I figured Tempest would beat Fanatic if only because lightning beats flying.

Tech Tier seemed like the easiest to fill in to me, and there seems to be a lot of agreement with that one on here.  I don't see how Bunker could possibly do anything to Writhe.  Benchmark vs Absolute Zero is basically showing off the cool new suit vs the old cold suit and they wouldn't want their new hero losing right away.  Unity vs Omnitron-U could be a little tricky since they wouldn't want to fight each other, but if they did, Unity could literally rip Omnitron apart.  Sky-Scraper is awesome, but Parse would find some weakness and take her down.

The main question with Mystic Tier was Nightmist vs Harpy or Doctor Medico vs Idealist?  I originally had Idealist taking the whole tier (she's another of my favorites and ridiculously powerful) but then I decided someone from Dark Watch needed to take this tier.  Also, the teacher vs student matchup seemed more interesting than the father vs daughter matchup.  Doctor Medico just wouldn't do anything to hurt his daughter, which makes for a boring fight.  For the rest of the tier, we know Argent Adept vs Visionary is canon, so that's basically all there is to it.  Another reason I had Nightmist win this tier was to make the impact losing her even greater.

I'll spare people my Martial Tier analysis, since I talked about it at length in a previous post.

The problem with the Conqueror Tier is that Progeny could probably easily take the whole thing, but that would be boring.  The Progeny event just happened not too long ago, he's about to be coming back with OblivAeon, and he doesn't talk.  As those of us unlocking the Freedom Five variants right now know, there's only so much Progeny people can take.  There's no way Apostate can beat him, but Citizen Dawn is both extremely powerful and I think popular, so she seemed the best choice to both beat him and take the tier.  I don't think Chokepoint could do much to Infinitor since he doesn't use any metal.  Zhu Long could probably destroy Kaargra if he tried, but I don't think he wants to be fighting here and would rather just go home, whereas this is Kaargra's thing.  Infinitor's manifestations are then too much for Kaargra to handle (although the panels of her fighting off hordes of them would look pretty sweet) and we're left with Infinitor vs Citizen Dawn.  He should ask K.N.Y.F.E. what happens when you bring light-based weapons to fight Citizen Dawn.

Between his popularity and lack of real challengers, it's pretty obvious that Baron Blade wins the Cunning Tier.  What is The Chairman even doing here?  I'm assuming Jansa didn't bring the whole Organization.  Without that, he's just a guy who's in excellent shape for how old he is.  Miss Information is the only other real threat here, but Baron Blade would beat her because of popularity if nothing else.

Lifeline obviously had to win the Eldritch Tier if I wanted him to win the whole tournament.  Getting to fight other blood magic-based enemies fit well.  I'm really not sure how Biomancer beats Isis (Isis by herself without the rest of the Ennead wouldn't be too much of a threat, but what can Biomancer even do in combat?  Maybe it's not really Biomancer, but a fleshchild with combat skills.) but I wanted to set up Gloomweaver vs Biomancer as a nod to the ongoing battle in the meta-narrative of the Letters Page.  Maybe that's a thing in the Sentinel Comics Publishing universe too.

Finally, the Bruiser Tier is the one I'm least sure about.  I had Spite win to give The Wraith a rematch against her nemesis in the finals and because based on the card game decks, I think he's the hardest of these villains (he's the only one who's not part of Vengeance mode).  Bugbear should beat Proletariat no problem and it would look cool to see the savage beast tearing through a bunch of clones.  For the rest I went with the idea that Plague Rat is immune to The Operative's poisons, but I think I would change this.  For one, I think the writers would have The Operative at least make it to the end of the tier if not win it, because she's probably the most interesting of this bunch and probably has a lot of fans.  I also might have Fright Train beat Plague Rat.  Being able to communicate is important to break up the monotony of battle after battle, and while neither of them are great at this, train puns are a slightly higher form of communication than growling.

Sorry for how long this was, but I love talking about Sentinels stuff.  If anyone still has questions or comments after all that, please ask!

MC
McBehrer
2017-12-12 06:48 UTC
#104

I actually typed up my full analysis on the email I sent them, so here it is.

(Warning: this is REALLY LONG. If you don’t care, feel free to skip it, but if you do plan on reading, well… be warned.)

In the first round, Ra defeats Haka and Fanatic defeats Legacy. I’m not necessarily sure how, but the opportunity for Ra and Fanatic to fight each other is too good to pass up.

I had Mainstay defeat Tachyon, as a chance to show off the Void Guard’s newly-obtained power. Additionally, Tachyon is weaker after her fight with Progeny. However, Tempest is REALLY powerful. Not enough to defeat Fanatic, but still. Thus, Fanatic takes Champion Tier.

I figure that Parse is the Batman of the SC Multiverse, in the “given enough prep time, she can beat anyone” sense. And she’s seen Sky-Scraper fight plenty, having helped rescue her and all. Writhe, on the other hand, is unpredictable and weird, so he takes Tech Tier.

We know Argent Adept exorcises Visionary, so that matchup has to happen. NightMist vs. Harpy is also too enticing to pass up, from a narrative standpoint, but NightMist would win through experience. She takes Mystic Tier.

Martial Tier is weird. Mister Fixer SHOULD dominate it, but there is no way a “Lover’s Feud” between Setback and ExPatriette DIDN’T happen. Unfortunately, the luck that carried him TO that fight would probably run out before it could carry him THROUGH it, so ExPatriette takes Martial Tier.

In Conqueror Tier, there were some weird matchups. Since it’s unlikely that Progeny was at full power, he likely got shot down. I imagine he defeated Apostate to show that he was still in the game, but then Dawn annihilated him to show her superiority, leading her to take Conqueror Tier.

Cunning Tier was also weird. Baron Blade was strong, of course. He got to go up against the Chairman in a battle of wits, and prove that he has greater short-term planning, if not long-term viability. Given that Miss Information’s reality warping outclasses Glamour’s illusions, she would be the only competitor for Blade; I almost had her take it, but I decided on Blade eventually.

Eldritch Tier was pretty easy. Lifeline was the star of the show, and pitting him against the other Blood Mage, Bathory, and the other villain/hero, Akash’Thriya, were the best sources of drama/character development available. I considered putting him against Biomancer, but figured Akash’Thriya would do well against him.

Bruiser Tier is where most of the problems were. Fright Train would probably beat Plague Rat, being engineered for durability and power, but The Operative’s pure skill and agility would win the day. Bugbear would destroy Proletariat, feeding from destroying his clones while whittling away at his endurance. Against Heartbreaker, however, he would have trouble scoring a hit. Heartbreaker would turn the tables and play the long game, tiring him out and killing him with the metaphorical 1000 paper cuts. Plus, he has a similar game plan to the Operative, so seeing them go at it would be cool. She’s better, though, so she would win Bruiser Tier.

I think most of the finals speak for themselves. Dawn beats Writhe. Lifeline beats Operative. (He popped Gloomweaver like a blood balloon! He could do it!) Lifeline vs. Dawn would be tough, but… again, he single-handedly disassociated Rotting God Gloomy. He could probably pull it out, but it would be tough. It helps that they are not on Earth, and she doesn’t have her Citizens to back her up. Plus, having Lifeline come out on top – and therefore prove himself as a valuable asset for the heroes – seems like a reasonable ending for the story.

RJ
rjc917
2017-12-12 13:18 UTC
#105

That wasn't so long!  It looks like we agree on a lot!