What were your first thoughts about the characters of this game ? Did you think they were copies of other characters and why ?
For me when I first saw these characters I thiought they were orginal anf their own characters . Similar does not mean the same and not everything has to be compared , lets just enjoy it for what it is .
Please be honest
I certainly think you can see the inspiration from previous comic book characters, but taken in an interesting direction.
I think like most of us, Christopher reads comics and at times thinks, "Man, I wish (Insert character name here) had done X differently." or "Wouldn't it be cool if that power worked differently."
As Soloman said a long, long time ago, "There is nothing new under the sun." It would be really hard to create a character that was engaging that didn't overlap with another character already out there, DC and Marvel have characters that are similar, so I don't think twice about similarities with Sentinels characters.
that desn't answer the question also I am done with that topic
what was your first impression on the characters and what did you think about them ? This is the for the first time you saw the characters
Honestly? The very first time I was introduced to any of this was a game at a friends house. Tempest, Mr. Fixer, and Ra vs the Plague Rat in Rook City. Little to no explanation of anything, and I think I took Fixer because they wanted to experiment with the brand new expansion and said he was an easy character to play. Game play was brutal and intense and we ended up with a skin of the teeth game. The biggest things I remeber were incap abilities being so amazing (never seenthe like in any game before) and the fact that we had chosen poorly in cards (Ra played Fire Shield, and ended up killing himself rather quickly)
Never started thinking about the characters until I started buying it for myself, and at that point I got a deluge of information so quickly, and I got so into following the story of the Sentinels world that I had no time for preconceptions.
Actually, I find it really interesting thinking back that I had two major points of growth with this game. First buying everything I could lay my hands on and supporting kickstarters (I think Vengeance or Wrath was my first, pretty sure I missed Shattered Timelines) and then later when I got the Kindle app, and the limited character selection allowed me to branch out and appreciate Fanatic and Visionary who I had often felt uncomfortable playing. Also got me over my terror of Citizen Dawn.
Did I not answer the question you asked? You specifically asked, and then answered a question about our first impression, and if they are "copies of other characters and why?"
If you are over a topic then don't post questions about it and then be dismissive of an answer to the question you specifically asked.
Thank you for your participation in our community, but please don't start stuff by asking questions then chastising people that answer them.
I’m deleting some of the drama-posts, as they aren’t going to help the conversation.
SMXLR8, as phantaskippy pointed out, you asked a question and they answered it. Be respectful of others. I’ll (again) point you to the forum rules and the forum discourse rules.
Don't make me use my Mod voice.
If anyone has issues with what someone has done / said, contact the Mods and/or Admins.
When I first saw the Sentinels characters, I appreciated how they were unique entities but fit nicely into long-established and interesting types of comic characters. I really appreciated the idea of coming up with something new while still paying homage to the long history of comics over the decades (and other popular media, really) . I enjoyed how each deck did a great job of communicating the characters through both function and flavor.
I have to say thak you that and yes maybe I read the comment wrong . I am just so used to people well not doing what I asked
{Edited to remove provoking comment. - Rabit}
It would help if you remember that the community isn't here to do what you asked. The people here like interesting and fun conversations. I'd recommend you stop expecting people to do "what you asked" and start having respectful, thoughtful discourse.
I didn't mean that in a forceful way , I was just saying that when I ask people to be respectful it didn't happen . I wasn't trying to be rude or mean in anyway but that still does not excuses the what some people said and did
I thought that they were original characters with elements of homage to existing classic comic book characters. Although I am not sure that applies to all of them.
I still reference the homage factor with new players so they have a handle on what they want to play.
I tend to use the homage factor when introducing the game, to give the new players an idea of what kind of characters there are ("That's Legacy -- he's kind of a mix of Superman and Captain America... that's Tempest -- he's an alien with a mix of Storm's and Aquaman's powers... that's the Wraith, she's Batman.) It's a convenient shorthand for the types of archetypes that many of the characters fill.
I have already talked about the homage and how it's used. For new players it's a good thing but from a story and design point it's bad
How is that a bad thing?
it's all on the other thread , I really don't want to bring it up here
Then why bring it up? I see no issue with it since all of these heroes are reflections of comic book heroes. If people playing want to find out the characters background they will dig through the cards, forums, and wiki to try to get it but only Christopher and Adam have the full stories.
I didn't bring it up , you did <_<
You did here and that prompted my quesiton
I think that the homages are what make the story possible at all. Realistically speaking, a card game does not have enough space to tell a story as rich and complex as the one Christopher and Adam are telling. (If you like math: according to what I could find online, the average comic book page has ~150 words and ~5 panels, and the average comic book has 24 pages. That's 3600 words and 120 "pictures" per issue. SotM is trying to tell its story using around 60,000 words, and 1,500 pictures. That's about 15 comic book issues of material, to tell a story that would span hundreds of comic books if it actually existed.)
The only reason that this is at all possible is because they are using a vast ocean of preexisting material as the glue that holds their story together. They don't need to spend time familiarizing players with Maia Montgomery's personality - all they need is an opening hand of Utility Belt, Razor Ordanance, and Trust Fund and any player will know that the Wraith is going to be brooding and reclusive. Sure she's not exactly Batman, but now Christopher and Adam can use their remaining space on filling in the blanks and refining her character. The players get to know who she is much better than would be possible if they had had to start from ground zero.
That was great lumps also you seem to get what the Christopher and Adam were thinking when making the characters/ game
I think also the archetypes help refine the information down.
Nightmist started as a Private Eye, just that alone gives a lot of literary assumptions based off of the Noir tradition. Then she was cursed and began learning magic. Brings to mind the character Jon Constantine, now, I've never read much of Constantine but I know the basics. She also reminds me of Dr. Strange, with the necklace. Again, never read any Dr. Strange, but I've got bits and pieces. Those pieces combined with the artwork, posing, and flavor text give us a picture of who Nightmist is. An incomplete picture, probably a wrong picture in many ways, but then as we gather new pieces of information we refine our image of her. And we can make guesses as to the types of adventures she's had and let those refine our assumptions even more.
After all, she probably did not start with the Book, The Ring, and both Necklaces, she would have earned and found those. But the fact she needed to gather these artifacts, that Master of Magic shows her practicing her craft alone in a study, that helps us again winnow down traits and assumptions we might have until we get towards the end.
This. The comic genre is stuffed full of archetypes, which means that similarities and comparisons between Sentinels characters and other characters are nearly impossible to avoid. So, from a storytelling and design perspective, it is GOOD to embrace the archetypes as homages.
Hey I agree but I just don't like how some comparisons are bad and not thought out
example would be parse as Hawkeye or green arrow just because she uses a bow and arrow
I don't see anything wrong with comparing Parse to Green Arrow or Hawkeye with her bow skills and she uses her extreme focus to point out weaknesses to her allies.
I think your point was that Parse is not very much like Hawkeye? I would definitely agree with that--Parse has that whole computer programmer/predictive aspect, that isn't a part of Hawkeye at all (AFAIK). I'm not so familiar with comics: are there references to Hawkeye in Parse's art?
I can think of other instances where there are art references between characters that aren't really very parallel. For instance, Argent Adept's incap is a homage to a Wolverine comic, and Setback's incap is a homage to a Spider Man comic.
I'd say Setback and Spider-Man have some in common. They are the hero who takes a beating so others don't have to. Also the whole Parker luck thing. You also have the Slaughterhouse Six and Sinister Six comparison from High Risk Behavior
Don't forget being attacked by a cosmic symbiotic black mass of evil goo that actually has a mind of its own that has a strong dislike of belltowers! Can't bring up any Setback/Spiderman comparisons without the Voidsoul/Venom ones.
All I am saying is most of them are ok while others are not
also that was just an example, there are more of course but I think people get where I'm going with it
I don't see anything bad with justifying a hero in SotM as a homage to any comic book character if it makes sense to you and allows you to explain heroes to other people more easily for that person. Not everyone has read all the various comics out there and some SotM heroes may allude to certain comic book heroes to you more than others. There is no true wrong answer when this game is basically a love letter to comics.
I believe Homage is truly the key word here. Each SotM character is an amalgamation of traits borrowed from / inspired by multiple pre-existing comic characters. Hence one can never draw a direct comparison between a SotM character and any single pre-existing comic characters. It only makes sense when multiple pre-existing characters are used to describe (or analogise) a single SotM character.
(Exceptions may exist but I can’t pinpoint any off the top of my head)
Having said that, with the sheer volume of pre-existing characters out there, and the looooong history of comics, is it even possible to create a truly original character? I suspect no matter how original a creation is, you will always be able to say “ah but this character is just a combination of [this character] and [that character]”.
To then answer the question that is the title of this thread:
Within such constraints of pop culture, I think the SotM characters should be entitled to the label of ‘original’, to the degree that anything can be original these days. And by the same verse, the characters are also ‘copies of other characters’ to the extent that all pop culture things are most likely copies of other pop culture things.
Mr Rambles out.
I would actually say "borrowed from / inspired by multiple pre-existing characters" (without the "comic"). 
Many aspects of Sentinels are love letters to the things the creators love. It's one of the beautiful things about it! The best example is details around Tachyon. For another example, I remember someone telling Adam at a con about how an incap was a reference to an anime the person was a fan of. Adam was impressed, saying he was the first person to get that reference. 
The first time I played it, I totally thought they were playing off of pre-existing characters for the most part. I saw many characters who struck me as very unique, but some of the core characters (Freedom Five especially) is replete with paragon archetypes and it's definitely what I thought the second I picked up the game.
And in response to a much later question: yes, Parse does reference Hawkeye directly in her cards.
My favorite, actually, is in the Catch A Ride card in Sky-Scraper's deck: it's a complete and beautiful nod to Hawkeye shooting Ant-Man on the head of his arrow. (Which was a beautiful comic book moment also recreated in Captain America: Civil War).
The decks are intentionally filled with homages. Which I love.
They use these pre-existing characters to build off and to differentiate their characters, a lot, I think, which I love. I'm in love with the lore-- but the commonalities both help buy-in creatively, and buy-in with new players.
And frankly, once you get past the homages or the purposeful similiarties, these are original characters.
I've been on a big superhero literature kick recently. Three of the best stories I've read were the "Wearing the Cape" Series, "Grrl Power" Webcomic and Worm: The webserial (you can PM me for links if interested). Going to try very hard not to spoil anything.
Each of these have a female character, two it is one of the main characters, the other she is an important secondary character, who could be said to be homages to Superman/Supergirl. Flight, Super Strength, Enhanced Durability, no laser eyes though. However, Astra, Maxima, and Alexandria are all completely different characters, and they are also completely different from the source material.
Heck, Wearing the Cape has Atlas, who the powerset of "superman lite" is named after in the world, and he's a good ol country boy. He's still completely different from Clark Kent in many many ways.
So even when we say Legacy is like a mix between Superman and Captain America... we're only talking in the broadest strokes. Legacy isn't an outsider as much as those two are, he isn't an alien or awoke 50 years later after being frozen. He's a family man, vastly different from those other two who only had flings or steady girlfriends, Legacy has a wife and daughter, possibly Aunts and Uncles, Nieces and Nephews. He doesn't keep these lives secret, he invites his companions to his place for a barbacue. And all of this information is in the cards or the rulebook background. This isn't something that takes a Sentinels expert to uncover, it just takes reading flavor text.
I would disagree that it's bad. It's a common thing that is done in nearly every artistic field. People homage their inspirations, and take them in new directions, and this is not inherently bad in any way.
Anyway, I answered as I did because I was answering your question. The fact that you already answered your own question has no bearing on my answer or what is appropriate for me to state as my answer.
Even if you disagree I still stand by what I said sine I had a point. Also I have already talked about the topic more in the first thread that I did that repeats to this topic. I already knew about influence and reference and inspiration but it goes beyond then just art
Of course you knew. Everyone knew, but you literally asked "What were your first thoughts about the characters of this game ? Did you think they were copies of other characters and why ?" When people answer the question you literally asked, it is very off-putting for you to be so dismissive to people who don't necessarily agree with your perspective or who have perspectives similar to those expressed before.
Like do you seriously want an actual conversation here or do you just want to push people into only giving you what you deem to be acceptable replies?
Also, I never saw your first thread so how the heck am I supposed to take that into account in this thread?
Hey you replied to my comment so I addressed it , I'm not doing anything here . Why would I take something like this seriously, we are just talking about fictional characters so not sure what your point is. Well you should check it out before acting like I don't understand
A link to your other topic and an explanation on how you want this topic was meant to be different would have helped (and still would, as I haven't seen that topic either and am not planning to dig through pages of topics to find it). Furthermore, I am sorry to break the mirror, but I read your original post the same way as Belle and others here did, but refrained from answering after feeling unwelcome in this topic thanks to reading how our answers were received.
The topic is on the first page <_< so yeah not sure what you mean . If you don't like then you could have ignored the topic
This thread has become somewhat of an unproductive loop, and I've had more than one person approach me about it.
I've decided to lock it down. Maybe that's too extreme, maybe not. If you would like to reopen it and can present a good argument why I should unlock it, send me a private message here.
