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Everything I noticed in Villains, Variants and More

106 posts · 4796 views · started 2016-01-09 05:16 UTC
CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-09 05:16 UTC
#1

Not a snappy title, but it should make the potential spoilerificness of the thread obvious. Just in case it isn't enough though

 

Spoilers of Villains cards Ahead. Also, Massive Wall of Text

 

First off, let's talk oversized cards.

 

They are absolutely gorgeous. The artwork is superb and a few of them are, IMO, far superior in giving the feel of the villain than the original art. Bravo to Adam.

 

However, while ogling the art I noticed a few things, as I tend to do.

 

Base omnitron while in his factory form is shown expelling a lot of toxic green goo. I don't know if this ends up meaning anything, but It was not something I expected to see. I makes me wonder how environmentall unfriendly omnitron was.

 

Operative's flip doesn't give any clues to where those arrows came from, but showing the sign of Zhu Long so prominently gets me wondering. After all, after her near death she was sent to Zhu Long, and we still don't know how he and Chairman are connected.

 

Apostates flip makes the blue scars he had more interesting. They are spouting blue flame, which means it is energy leaking from within him. It is also breaking up the ground at his feet and makes me wonder about his title as a "corrupter"

 

I can't remember if this was ever brought up before, but La Capitan's flip  showing her split across time made me realize something. If I am not mistaken she has Atum's Gauntlet in one picture and the Starshield Necklace in another. Looking at the Starshield pic, she looks more like a ragged pirate, and I wonder if she appeared in Maine. The flavor text of the Starshield says it is a charm against evil from dreams. That, combined with all the other references, sounds like cthulu and if memory serves me, part of Lovecraft's universe involved pirates in Maine running into the "Deep Ones" which were monster fish people back in 1800's. She could have been there.

 

Here's a big one. Tormented Ally Infinitor. First of all, sounds like an awesome concept for him, but his flip side suddenly struck me with a few facts. His cards are manisfestations, not illusions or distortions or anything else. Something is manifesting through him, and his flip is "Overcome by Manisfestations" and shows a rather large sort of demonic horned being. At first I thought this might be our first visual of the Cosmic Entity, but looking over Infinitor's backstory he did supposedly draw from some being's power. I think this thing is the source of Infinitor's strength and insanity, but what it actually is I have no idea.

 

Looking toward the variants.

 

Chrono-Ranger's Best of Times promo, incapped, I think this is clearly the origin of Renegade (http://greaterthangames.com/content/for-profit-characters). My question is whose giant blast of green death is it that ripped him apart like that. I can't think of anyone except Gloomweaver who generally uses green blasts... oh, except Infinitor, that's a good potential canidate.

 

Adamant Writhe's incap side shows the "black wire being" again, but clearly seperated from Writhe. What is more interesting to me though is where thye are at. It looks to be the same place where Medico's incap is, note the giant blue-black vortex, it also looks the exact same as the scene we see in Deadline's Pandemonium Key and potentially where Chrono-Ranger ended up before Old La Capitan finds him. I'm wondering if this is one of the final arena's of the game.

 

Chokepoint had a few interesting bits.

 

Stripped Resources: It looks like Unity repaired O-X while they were fighitng Chokepoint

Material Upheaval: Looks like Chokepoint breaks into Fort Adamant

Empowered Self-Repair: She's talking to Swift bot, saying " Pushed into limbed form, but that is not your truth" gives some insight into Choke's mentality

Harvest the mighty: She's ripping apart the bunker suit. Considering she focuses on metal that would explain why bunker ends up fighting in the synth and tree suit.

Newfound Power: This looks like her recoery/transformation from Deadline's tool. she says, "I don't understand. You're so loud! So Bright!". I'm beginning to suspect that the blue stone is one of the Oblivion Shards, that would explain why it so drastically changed her capabilites.

 

A tangent of that led me back to the Dreamer, I'm thinking the green crystal the dreamer is often seen with is also an Oblivion shard. I think we've suspected that since we saw Man-grove's transformation in Tactics, but I think there may be more to it. The Visionary's mother was killed by the drugs that Project Cocoon used to give Visionary her powers. However, The Dreamer's mother is still perfectly healthy from everything we can see. Visionary had powers by two months, Dreamer got them by age six years. Even if we accept Vanessa Long will develop powers regardless of anything else, that is too much of a difference. What if contact with the crystal was the source of her power? What if that is what awakened her. And if we look, she has the crystal with the stuffed monkey. The Treacherous ape has the crystal, and the alternate version of dreamer we see in La Capitan's deck is accompanied by a large orange monkey, with a glowing gen in it's forhead. That is too much for coincendences.

 

Celestial Tribunal.

 

First off, we see The Matriarch being tried by the Tribunal, and the Dark Watch team is called in to testify in her case. I'm willing to bet this trial is the turning point that leads the Matriarch to become Pinion.

 

Looks like Heartbreaker killed Dr. Tremata. Also a guy with glasses and a faceless man, neither of whom I can identify. Looking at Heartbreaker's card later on (Miss info's deck) he's a nemesis of the entire Dark Watch team, and with the body's seen at the Tribunal I get the feeling he is a hired hitman, an assassin who Dark Watch has been hunting for sometime. I'm still wondering if he is actually Tony Taurus, but I don't think we'll learn that information until For Profit comes out.

 

The Star Field in the background of the Tribunal looks very similiar to me to the star fields mentioned above with Adamant and the Pandemonium key. If they are, that places it according to the Tribunal's card, at the edge of the Solar System.

 

Paragon of Sentience makes mention of the "Zenith of Humanity" while showing a picture of scholar and Guise fighting Aeon Men. That could mean scholar, which makes a lot of sense I think, or guise, which makes less immediate sense but then sort of makes sense considering all Guise does seems to be ripping off pop references while being a hero. I'll also come back to this card later.

 

Court of Blood, oh man, I get the feeling I'm going to love to hate this environment.

 

One really cool but subtle thing is that the Blood Countess is shown wearing cross-shaped earrings in Infecting an Heir, which has some important implications for the Sentinels universe. If this matches other fantasy portrayals I've seen it means that the objects of worship themselves hold no special power. It is either faith or specific relics that are anathema to the undead, if they would work at all. Even then I don't think it would be shown to be a terribly effective means of defending yourself, after all Fanatic still has to rely on her physical sword and armor to protect her, as shown on her Prime Wardens incap (thinking we've confirmed that takes place at the Court of Blood). Even with that though, the type of dark power presented does affect Fanatic as shown in the Unhallowed Halls flavor text. Which by the way, that card makes the Court environment a heck of a lot scarier and really shuts down a few of Fanatic's and Scholar's main strategies.

 

Actually, her complete aversion to the Court's dark power, and Apostate using Blood Magic to summon his ancient relics might mean there is a connection between the two angelic beings and the vampires. With blood magic being a factor... hmmm. Could we also connect Bugbear and Atlantis' Phosphoresent Chamber back to this? Perhaps some ancient magical civilization that led to beings like the Vampires thru special rituals?

 

Madame Mittermeier's Circus.

We've got a couple of villains making an appearance here. Glamor shows up with NAturalist captured, Cueball shows up fighting Guise, we do not though get the Madame herself. I doubt it is Glamor, though I do think Glamor knows who the Madame is.

 

Maze of Mirrors in the Circus is the source of Setback and Tachyon's encounters with Glamor.It also shows Wraith a few different versions of herself. Not sure if we're talking more alternate realities or simply stage magic but Spite Wraith and Ghoul Wraith are both fairly terrifying looking.

 

Shooting Gallery is a bit of fin for side characters. It looks like we have Tachyon's wife Dana (which if Glamor is closely associated with the circus explains the nemesis icon between the two). I think the General in the middle is General Armstrong who ran Fort Adamant while Bunker was there. The third person is either Mrs. or Miss Parsons I think. My original guess was Mrs. Parsons, it fit the theme of non-super relatives and family and the cuffs looked too flimsy to hold Pauline, but then I think we see Pauline in You won't believe your eyes with "Baron Blade" (a fake, either illusion or possibly the counterfiet Blade from Biomancer). Could have the real Mrs. Parson's in danger and illusions of Pauline as "Ivanna" I guess, but all in all, I don't think it was a fun day for LEgacy or whichever villain he eventually caught up to who threatened his family.

 

Temple of Zhu Long kind of disappointed me for huge story secrets. Maybe I just missed them, but there was nothing big and obvious.

 

There is something though I think. Mysterious Ceremonies shows two women with scars over their eyes, it looks like a ritualistic blinding. The Operative also has symbolic blinding thru the red paint and later the dragon tatoo. Fixer is blind, and we've never seen his eyes. Fixer was also Zhu Long's nemesis long before Dark Watch Fixer. What if Fixer has a longer history with the Dragon, from back before he was Black Fist even, after all, someone needed to teach him martial arts.

 

 

 

Okay, whew. I'm going to post this massive post, then post two hold in spots to fill ou tomorrow because it is late and I still have 10 decks and a few meta thoughts to go through. Luckily, I'm mostly using some sheets I paper I jotted notes on while I was first going thru the cards.

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-09 05:17 UTC
#2

Okay, back, have my coffee and talking about Miss Information

 

Which in terms of new story elements... I had a thought. Her incap side got me thinking. With the straight jacket and the glowing eyes... is it possible that Miss Information is the Time-Crazed Prisoner? Time-Crazed prisoner is important to the lore, since they have given us so much info, and with her falling through realities to avoid her death and developing reality-warping powers she fits the bill. Plus FILTER is the only likely canidate to be able to hold her, since their prison is removed from reality and they have reality tech themselves according to KNYFE's bio. Pure speculation, but I think it clicks together.

 

There is also some pure speculation on the Wraith. On the card Endless Possibilities we see a Wraith covered in a lot more bandages than the normal Wraith, and it got me thinking about Wraith and her costume. Bandage wraps are an odd choice for her costume, and this alternate version feels darker, and has more bandages. What if the bandages are symbolic? Thye might reresent the extent of Maia's injuries when she was beaten by those thugs and left in a coma. Following that thread, this new version would be a version of Maia who was beaten even more severly. Not sure if we can do anything with it, but it raises some interesting ideas about the Wraith I think.

 

Ambuscade

 

Ambuscade's incap side shows us his "disfiguring scars" and suddenly I have much less respect for Ambuscade. It tells us just how crazy and narscisitic he is, but seriously, that is less than minor.

 

Interestingly, Desert Eagle from the deck seems to know about Haka's past and his banishment, which I think we'd established happened hundreds of years ago, which raises some questions. Either, since I think a lot of Maori history follows oral tradition, Haka's legends are still floating around or Desert Eagle is fairly old himself.

 

MAgman is interesting. He is clearly from Magmaria, but would have had to make his first appearance before Magmaria did. Also, why is he on the surface instead of where he belongs, and why is he obviously crazy compared to his brethren? The cards don't give any hints I can find, comic tropes would tell us being on the surface is what drove him mad but it might have some important story implications.

 

Biomancer

I think, despite the different styles of art, that we can safely say the Homunculus is the green being from Lightspeed barrage, there are enough similiarites though and we see Tachyon fighting the homunculus.

 

The use of steel skeletons brings me to question a few things. Could Biomancer be the source of the Robot Legacy we see in Tactics, or even Golem Unity? The design of the metal we see on his incap side matches. Robo-Legacy fits with Biomancers normal SOP, but Unity would be a massive prize. Her power to manipulate metal, combined with his ability to manipulate flesh would be massive.

 

BugBear

 

We see Naturalist being hunted by Bugbear, and Bugbear seems to be sucking the life out of Calypso in a different card. Both of which could be important or meaningless.

More interestingly, we see Ammit from the Tomb of Anubis make his debut as a card. His flavor text is fascinating to read, stating most likely to Ra that if he stays on the path he has chosen his form will remain bound to this plane but his spirit will fade away. I think I saw a Footenotes that I commented on where this ties into a theory about where Tactics Ra is from. I think Ra changed his path, possibly losing the Ra of old to prevent the death of the body of Washington, but thereby needing a new host for the power of Ra. It is also fascinating that Ammit is shown outside the tomb, that tells me that Ammit was sent to hunt down Ra. I think there might be more to the struggle amongst the Egyptian pantheon characters... maybe Anubis and Ammit represent a force trying to destroy the spirits that have cheated death to continue their existence for thousands of years?

 

Quetzalcoatl has a big red crystal, another possible Oblivion Shard.

 

Bugbear's incap is really interesting to me. From his bio we get the feeling that there is a human side of Bugbear that is trying to find a way to lift his cursed hunger. Nightmist is that person, but the only time we see them together she has sealed him away, and is crying and caressing his face. IS she simply distraught because she couldn't save him, or did something more develop between them?

 

Hammer and Anvil

 

I think the red beam we see on Cover Fire is from O-X, most likely before the card that shows Hammer burning him from the inside out.

 

Our biggest thing here is the Bio and Hammer's Incap side. The Bio tells us that one of the reasons Dawn sent them out was to get the Visionary and see if she could not show a future where the Citizens of the Sun ruled. Following thru  on that, they would need Visionary under their control to help make that become a reality. If that is the case, did Hammer somehow end up trying to dominate the Visionaries mind and we see the result of that. Being of course, he got beat bad. We see a firey Hammer captured by a large, green, Six armed (spider theme or Hindu reference?) Dark Visionary. We also see normal visionary, pink energy, sealed in green crystal behind Dark Visionary. Since these are pure representations of their minds, it might be giving us something towards what Dark Visionary is, what kind of world she might have been from... oooh. If it is a spider reference does that mean we should look at the Grotesque Arachnid for some more clues?

 

Greazer

 

Galactra states that Captain Cosmic's power is merely an Echo. What if she is right? If Cosmic's power is an echo of the "Cosmos" (and we know we have a Cosmic Entity coming)? Connections there could be very interesting.

 

Oh, why tangent because I missed something. Incap of Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic shows him being captured by the Celestial Adjudicator of the Tribunal. Can't believe I missed that before now. COuld he be considered a "vigilante of cosmic proportions"?

 

We also now know that the enemy we see on Wounding Buffer is Rahazar. Quite possibly an Alien, but we don't know almost anything beyond that.

 

La Capitan

It looks like Chiquito is holding O-X's head, which we also seem to see on the deck of the old La Capitan's ship as the wheel.

 

Donde? Aqui! (Where? Here! according to Google Translate) shows La Capitan working with LA Capitan. She clearly has means to communicate to herself and sems to be immune to paradoxs. Are we thinking this is all alternate reality shenanagins or simply time-wimey shenangins?

 

Temporal Kelhaul seems to be normal Mainstay's incap side, and probably hurt a lot.

 

Quando? Ahora! (Maybe supposed to be When? Now!, but google translate says When is Cuando) This card is awesome looking. We've got a huge list of alternate's. Here's what I think we've got shown:

Alternate Freedom Five with The Dreamer and her ape with a green crystal in his forehead, NAturalist as a small bird, a robotic Tachyon, possibly related to Omnitron due to coloration, and a Nightmist who might also be the Virtuoso of the Void (there is a floating set of Pan Pipes with the same mark as the Amulet of the Elder Gods and the same green energy we see with Adept). Then on the other side, a Dark Tempest (either gene-bound or related to the guy we see on the incap of prime wardens tempest) a heroic looking Plague Rat and Kismet and a guy who I think may be a Mystic MArtial Arts Setback, translation of the Kanji might reveal something but I can't provide that.

 

So... I hate time travel as a story device, it gets so confusing and La Capitan's incap makes my brain hurt. We are shown the new Capitan being left in front of the old Capitan, but we also know that the orignal Capitan still happens, so does she somehow escape from herself who should know how she escapes and then should be able to stop it or does she kill herself which I can't beleive she'd be stupid enough to try since then she wouldn't have wanted to get herself since she knew she'd kill herself.... ouch... time travel!!!

 

Plague Rat doesn't give us anything too new, but we do know Plague rat is considered Subject 18-PZ4 which might be interesting

 

Sergeant Steel

His incap seems to show Becky Blast immediately before the scarring we see her with in Tactics. Pretty sure we can confirm the explosives expert is Becky Blast anyways

 

Espionagent is very similiar to the FILTER Spy, except for some minor dfferences in the armor.

 

Operative only gives us two new character confirmations

 

Mayor Overbrook (mayor of Rook City I assume) seems to be the most likely canidate to be the yellow figure on Rook City Wraith's incap, making the list Spite, Equity, Overbrook and Ermine)

 

Idolater seems to be the guy who was the target of Brutal Censure, either before and that causes what seems to be the scar on his forehead or afterwards and it isn't a scar as I think it is

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-09 05:17 UTC
#3

And now onto some misc and interesting things.

 

First off, Magmaria's Smoldering Crystal and the circus' Wheel of Misfortune both have flavor text showing moments between Expat and Setback which I think is kind of sweet to help build up a bit of their relationship

 

Also, a lot of cards started showing Scholar of the Inifinite and Guise together. Scholar's incap, Celestial Tribunal's Paragon of Sentience, La Capitan's Donde? Aqui!, these two obviously started working together a lot which might have some major signifigance.

 

Another really important thing to pay attention to is what we don't see. And what we don;t see anywhere is the Aeon Men. Well, not entirely accurate but seeing the Scholar and Guise fighting them in Paragon of Sentience isn't what I mean. This tells me that the Aeon men are defintely part of the final expansion, and maybe even the final battle. After all, here's all the instances of seeing them I can remember:

 

Paragon of Sentience: Scholar and Guise fighting a large group of Aeon Men

Syncopated Onslaught: Argent Adept fighting a group of Aeon Men

Thorathian Monolith: Sky-Scraper fighting a large group of Aeon Men

Incidental Contact: KNYFE fighting a group of Aeon Men

Defensive Blast: O-X fighting a large group of Aeon Men

 

With all of these looking to be at different times and places... I wonder if the Aeon Men represent a massive invasion, even bigger than the Thorathian invasion from Voss. That could be a hint towards what the final fight will be like

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-09 20:57 UTC
#4

As odd of a pairing as it might seem Scholar and Guise make sense for a teamup.  Primarily, they both are aware of a lot more than any other heroes.  I can't wait to get my set and look through things.  

MT
Medic-Tank
2016-01-09 21:06 UTC
#5

in a way they also mirror the cable/deadpool pairing. The scholar bringing the wisdom balance and patience to guise's randomness

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-09 21:32 UTC
#6

Too bad Scholar of the Infinite incap leaves Guise melting into as he appears to be fading away.  

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-09 21:46 UTC
#7

 

Which I think might have something to do with the Leyline damage caused by Deadline. I think it was in the bio on the game where I saw reference to the fact that the scholar's form was bound to the earth by the leylines

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-09 21:52 UTC
#8

From http://sentinelsofthemultiverse.com/multiverse/heroes/the-scholar in the Scholar of the Infinite bio

John Rhodes has learned far too much and seen too deeply. His disconnection from time and reality has given him an ideal position to provide support for those who can make a difference in the coming upheaval, but recent powerful adversaries have targeted the very ley-lines that bind The Scholar’s form to this plane.

Deadline had some impact I'm sure but I don't think it was just him.  A related hint is that the unlock conditions for Scholar of the Infinite in e video game dealt with Scholar being incapped in a win against Apostate or Gloomweaver after he did some healing.  

DO
Donner
2016-01-09 23:12 UTC
#9

The translation for Setback's Kanji w done by one of the playtesters.  They said it was equivalent to "Lucky Strike".

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-10 00:43 UTC
#10

 

Do you think someone might have been targeting them specifically to cause an end to the Scholar? Perhaps trying to get him out of the way before the final battle?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-10 00:52 UTC
#11

Certainly possible.   You have a powerful entity in Wager Master who has his jaw literally dropping at an offer to get the Philosopher's stone so it certainly bears to reason that the Cosmic Entity would like that artifact out of play.

VI
VisforYoshi
2016-01-10 03:53 UTC
#12

Magmaria also had the Crystyloid Behemoth (or something along those lines, I can't check at the moment) which had flavor text that I'm fairly certain is a reference to the original Legend of Zelda, stating that "It Dislikes Smoke"

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-10 07:08 UTC
#13

I saw the text... however, having never played legend of zelda I do not get the reference..

 

Though, I should mention that Magmaria does seem to explain itself well. I didn't want to talk about flavor text that explained the deck it came from too much, mostly just making new connections, but the constant melt rock and metal down to make crystals to work and build things to be destroyed to make crystals cycle is kind of interesting from multiple points of view

BL
bluedarky
2016-01-10 15:12 UTC
#14

Dodongo dislike bombs.

PR
Praion
2016-01-10 21:16 UTC
#15

I can't get over the fact that I will need to wait until End of the year/next year to see these cards in the digital edition - the only way I play this game. 

MC
McBehrer
2016-01-10 23:12 UTC
#16

Side notes on Quando? Ahora!

The dreamer looks like a young Maia, to me. Kismet is definitely on the Dark Watch team, and the heroic Plague Rat is dressed like Captain Cosmic. Also, that’s either Tachyon or Unity as Omnitron-X, with the Naturalist as a SMOL BIRB.

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-11 04:52 UTC
#17

 

You know, I'd never considered how much The Dreamer looks like Wraith. I'd still say that's Vanessa there, but it is a slightly eerie resemblance looking at them side by side

FO
Foote
2016-01-11 14:29 UTC
#18

Finally I can talk about stuff!!!! Ok. Where to start.....

  • Writhe was talked about a bit in this thread. I had a theory about Writhe from the moment we saw him in the V5 expansion which you can read here. It seems that I was pretty spot on, at least the new artwork supports my view more than refutes it. The Spiderman-Setback/Writhe-Venom correlation is so strong in the artwork. Look out for the "Cloak" to be a possible villain candidate moving forward.
  • I think it will be no surprise that one of the most facinating loose storylines coming out of the new artwork pertains to Scholar and Guise. Scholar's promo incap suggests to me a strong connection between them since they are both fading/melting away together at the same time. This combined with a non-trivial amount of other artwork showing them together really ticks my interest meter. I'm sure the connection between them lays within "ley-lines". Guise is the opposite coin face of Wager Master, who himself maybe the opposite coin face of our big bad cosmic entity. With Scholar and his stone being a possible "gateway"  between our world and the cosmic entity (as hinted at in his bio), there is more at play here than we know. This is a hero pairing to keep a close eye on in the final expansion.
  • Let's talk about Ammit!

If this is the path you choose, your form will be bound to this plane, but your spirit will fade

-Ammit, Ra: Horus of Two Horizons

The innitial thought here is that Ammit is more than likely talking to Ra right? There seems to be some sort of deal being made where Ra would get more powerful in order to go back and defeat the Ennead at the cost of his spirit. Given the comic this comes from, it makes a ton of sense as something thats possible. Given the backstory to "beard Ra", this would neatly explain his long absence as well as his more powered-up glorious return to kick some major egyptian ass. This looks pretty cut-and-dry here.

But I'd like to pose an alternate theory. What if he is not talking to Ra, but to Nightmist instead? Consider the following:

  • Form bound to a plane without a spirit. That could be said of Ra, as going forward in Tactics, we see the form of Ra but as a different person for all accounts. But we see the same thing with Nightmist in Tactics as well. Her mistform is bound to this plane, but she as a person/consiousness is no where to be found and considered lost/dead.
  • In the Tomb of Anubis deck, The Staff of Anubis has flavor texts suggesting that she has weilded the staff and felt its power. It's a strong connection to Ra's story and to the Underworld where Ammit is from. 
  • It has not been talked about too much, but Dark Watch Nightmist clearly has Egyptian infuences with the markings under her eyes. Nothing about it is in her backstory, but the art decision is likely not arbitrary. 
  •  Ammit is marked as a nemesis to Ra. A nemesis. Why would there be a deal here, why would Ammit allow a nemesis some support even if it comes as a sizable cost? It's possible sure, but the interaction doesn't sound as one between enemies. Another possible point for this conversation being with someone other than Ra? This is a far weaker point than the others, but it's somethign I thought worth considering.

A lot of this depends on timing, and we don't know 100% when the Horus storyline takes place in the grand scheme of things. We also know that Ra is also saved by Fanatic at some point in the "Trial by Fire" one-shot comic, but again, when that takes place exactly is nearly impossible to tell (though from the art I would guess Fanatic saves him post bearded transformation). Is it possible that Nightmist has a significant hand in Ra's ascention to Horus, going so far as to give up her spirit to save/help Ra? 

  • How cool is the card Quando? Ahora! ?!?! Not really much to say here that hasn't been said. But the brief look into an alternate universe and far different story paths for familiar heros/villains is pretty fugg'in cool.
  • How cool is Hammer/Anvil's incap art?! We knew from bio's that Dark Visionary went well past the acceptable line when dealing with the villains she fought, and this seems to be a picture of just that. With our Vanessas concious trapped in the background, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more art related to the "purging of Dark Visionary" in the future (or at least I hope to see it!)
  • As my final note, I think there is more than enough evidence to back up the theory that Heartbreaker is Tony Torus that BraithWhite posed a long while ago. The more we see of him, the more signs point to this being correct.
CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-11 20:47 UTC
#19

 

I hadn't considered the flip between Guise and Wager Master, that makes Paragon of Sentience even more important if we can draw a strong connection between Scholar and the Cosmic Entity.

 

On Ammit and Nightmist… I don't know if I agree that Mist Storm is Nightmist. It never seemed a terribly compelling arguement to me, and now that we have Darkwatch Nightmist's bio I think her story might be seperate. Darkwatch Nightmist is an Eldritch being of Magic, when she was human she got trapped in a different dimension and did the whole "10,000 years in a blink of an eye" struggle to get back to Earth and not fall prey to other powerful magical spirits. Sure in that way that she "is the Mists" now it could make sense, but only if she completely lost control, which after what she went thru seems very unlikely.

 

However, I think I have another answer to why she is not in Tactics yet (I feel good saying she will be in it at some point). Bugbear's incap seems to show a connection between Nightmist and Bugbear, and his story seems to hint that he sought her out for help curing him. She wasn't able to, and couldn't devote time to saving him with the world falling apart around their ears with Progeny and whatever comes afterward. What if after the final battle she devotes herself to study to find a cure? Or, perhaps working on strengthening Earth's mystical defenses (in case Scholar and Guise goes down and leylines crumble). If she has secluded herself and is working solo on something only she can do (or that she thinks she can only do since Faye seems to have that sort of lone ranger mentality) then it makes since she is no longer with Dark Watch, who is more concerned with helping take care of Broken City. Actually, Nightmist might have moved on from Mystic Detective to Sorcerer Supreme and instead works more closely with the Prime Wardens (many of whom are conspicously absent and might be a clue that something else big is still going on in the world that is requiring their attention).

 

Also supporting Heartbreaker is Tony Taurus, especially since the Tribunal shows that Heartbreaker is most likely responsible for the death of Tremata, if Tremata (an ally in Rook City) is dead, then we have to wonder what happens to the other doomed ally, and man does Tony and Heartbreaker seem to fit so well together

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-11 20:54 UTC
#20

The other time we Tony Taurus is in Stone Jaw Title card from Kaarga Warfang's deck.  It's too bad there isn't flavor text with it.  My point in saying that is that it's not clear when Kaarga comes through and if that messes up timeline wise for Tony to be Heartbreaker.  

FO
Foote
2016-01-11 21:01 UTC
#21

Have you seen her incap art lately?  Just because she got back to Earth from the other dimension doesn't preclude bad things from ever happening to her again. There is plenty of stuff that could go wrong for her after that point.

Idk how anyone doesn't get the instant connection between her mysterious disappearance and the Mist Storm in tactics. It's called the "mist" storm for crying out loud haha. It has the same coloring and is obviously strongly tied to some kind of magic judging by what the mist storm actually does.The mystery here is not "is Nightmist/MistStorm connected?", it's "what happened to Nightmist that created this MistStorm"
 

FO
Foote
2016-01-11 21:04 UTC
#22

I don't think timelines has anything to do with it, or how it could be messed up. If you buy into the theory that Tony is Heartbreaker, then you have to believe that Tony has already taken up that mantel during the Kaarga storyline (hence why he is even there in the first place).

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-11 21:22 UTC
#23

He doesn't show up as HeartBreaker in the card though just normal Tony Taurus.   Once I get a chance to look through cards that got delivered today maybe my mind will be changed.  

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-12 05:36 UTC
#24

 

Connected maybe, but not neccesarily the same. We know from Nightmist's original bio that her curse came about when "Instead of transporting her to another dimension, [her spell] brought part of the dimension into her". So the miststorm could be a result of the weakening of dimensional barriers and instead of "being nightmist" is the realm that provided her with her powers leaking into our world, which would be something she would drop everything and try and fix.  And her disappearance is not neccesarily mysterious, we have plenty of heroes who have not made an appearance, and her leaving Dark Watch and either going solo or joining a different team would explain why we don't see her in Tactics with Expat and the others. 

 

 

FO
Foote
2016-01-12 13:12 UTC
#25

That's all im trying to say really. 100% connected in some way. That miststorm is building to some kind of payoff down the road. 

The last decade has been especially rough for the team. The loss of an ally and close friend shook the team, driving them their separate ways
The Dark Watch Tactics bio makes it seem to me that Nightmist didn't just go study somewhere new or join a new team. Her death/disappearance is the entire catalyst for the team temporarily breaking up and regrouping with Pinion. I guess I could understand a different reading of the bio if I'm being honest, but I think it speaks more to something more major happening than a "hey guys I'll see you around" type departure.

 

DP
dpt
2016-01-12 13:21 UTC
#26

I just re-read that "all and close friend" quote. When I first read it, I assumed that was Nightmist, too. But could it be, for instance, Tony Taurus? Or could it be two different people?

(Pretty sure someone has proposed this already.)

FO
Foote
2016-01-12 13:29 UTC
#27

[quote="Powerhound_2000"]

He doesn't show up as HeartBreaker in the card though just normal Tony Taurus.   Once I get a chance to look through cards that got delivered today maybe my mind will be changed.  

[/quote]

Christopher/Adam are not ones to just give free answers out. He is just normal Tony Taurus in the Arena deck you are right. But the important question is "why is he even there in the first place". How could just a normal run of the mill cop hold his own in an arena like that? Being Heartbreaker would be a solid answer to that question. Then when you take into account the Rook City ties, the Dark Watch nemesis, the murder of the only other target in the Rook City enviro deck, and the fact that Heartbreaker is said to be a former cop in the For Profit bio...I think there is a lot to like.

To DPT's post, maybe it was talking about the Dr? It's possible I guess. But I feel pretty strongly we are supposed to infer that it is talking about Nightmist. If you look at the whole bio, that is the sentense that explains why Nightmist isn't on the team anymore. If that sentense wasn't talking about Nightmist, you would think her departure would then be mentioned elsewhere. I also don't think it's a reference to multiple people since "ally and close friend" is singular phrasing (unlike "allies and close friends").

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-12 14:55 UTC
#28

Tony Taurus isn't a cop he is a PI (his keyword in Rook City is Private Investigator).  There have been plenty of stories in comics where a PI gets involved in things way over their head.  

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-12 16:41 UTC
#29

It's entirely possible for a detective to become a cop later on (or vice versa). If we're thinking in terms of years down the road, it's not out of the question.

Since I'm fairly new to the speculation threads, what is the consensus on Tony's motive to break bad and become Heartbreaker? Did a former girlfriend/fiancé/wife of his get murdered?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-12 17:19 UTC
#30

I don't think there is any consensus just speculation at this point.   Nothing flavor text or story wise we have been given about shows Tony Taurus becoming a cop.   I've yet to read anything too compelling that Tony Taurus becomes Heartbreaker. 

Edit: The best speculation to me on Heartbreaker is from Braithwhite https://greaterthangames.com/comment/88709#comment-88709 which would indicate that maybe Heartbreaker has been around for a while.  

Edit2: In Stone Jaw it shows Tony Taurus in what looks like a maze which fits with his last name which a Minotaur.  

DP
dpt
2016-01-12 18:11 UTC
#31

Who is the other character in Stone Jaw, the one who looks more like a gladiator? It wasn't clear to me which one of the two was supposed to have the title.

DO
Donner
2016-01-12 18:23 UTC
#32

The other was Ashclaw R'velos, one of the villain targets in the deck.

PH
phantaskippy
2016-01-12 18:23 UTC
#33

I think Choke Point and what we have learned from her bio and deck support the idea that a being of order or perfection is trying to rid the universe of all of it's imperfections.  To save our planet Deadline was trying to destroy all the weakpoints (flaws) so the coming being would have nothing to do.

FO
Foote
2016-01-12 20:40 UTC
#34

For the record, no where does it say Heartbreaker was a cop. I just infered that from the bio. But I wouldnt shoot the whole theory down because of my poor choice of words perhaps.

The masked man known as  Heartbreaker has been through a lot. He used to work on the side of the law, but enough corruption can turn the most stalwart of men. Loss and disgrace taught him that he could not protect those around him. Hell, he couldn't even protect himself. But he could take. From lawman to assassin, his life turned from chasing righteous goals and failing, to chasing personal gain and succeeding.  Heartbreaker may be a scoundrel, but he knows his business.
I'd consider "Private Investigator" belonging firmly in the "working on the side of the law" camp. PI, cop. It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

There is no hard evidence that Tony = Heartbreaker, so Idk if you will ever see something compelling other than just >G just flat out saying who Heartbreaker is. But there is a lot of small possible connections you can make, and I'm of the opinion that where there is smoke there is generally fire.

I think you are right. I had brought up the idea of Order and Chaos in one of my Footenote series threads that related to who I thought the big bad was gonna be. I think I said the big bad would be Chaos in that sense, but I could have very well missmatched my labels when making that theory. I am totally with you on the general idea though here. 100%

CN
cnranger
2016-01-12 20:51 UTC
#35

Most Villains and all Heroes have been given names in their Bios, unfortunately Heartbreaker is not a Villain who would get a bio in the card game. I'm not sure how they do bio's in Tactics but if its similar that may be when we find out.

 

Edit: Also if he is Tony, which I like the theory, what happens when Heartbreaker and Tony are out at the same time, or better yet Tony could check to see if Heartbreaker is coming and either let it come out or avoid it.

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-12 20:59 UTC
#36

Fair enough. I'd say it's very plausible that Hearbreaker is Taurus.

This may be a stretch, but if you think about how Tony Taurus' gameplay works, you can kind of see some similarities.

This card is immune to Damage from Heroes.
At the end of the Environment turn, reveal the top 2 cards of the Villain deck. Put one on top of the Villain deck and one on the bottom.
Then, the Villain Character card either deals this card or the Hero with the lowest HP (H) Melee Damage.

First, he's doing his duty as a P.I., investigating the criminal and predicting their next move....but it costs him. He ends up getting beat up in the process, presumably getting caught. Or alternatively, the heroes pay the price. So what does Taurus truly gain? Even the law can't save the city from evil.

You can elaborate even further and presume that Taurus lost a loved one, as I previously suggested, or someone he knew in the same unit. But at that point we're really only assuming.

In any case, one can speculate that Taurus turns to a life of crime during the Rook City storyline, as we see him on Fixer's incap side, as he works for the Chairman.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-12 21:48 UTC
#37

The whole Dark Watch team comes together before we see Heartbreaker on any card.  His first appearance that we got was the incap of DW Mr Fixer.   Before we see Heartbreaker in another card in the game we see Tony Taurus again in Wrath of the Cosmos.   They could be the same person but the theory just doesn't sit well with me for whatever reason.   

Also, I wasn't trying to be nitpicky about what you said.  I just don't feel cop and PI are fully the same thing or work through the same methods.  

TS
The_Burning_Stickman
2016-01-12 23:01 UTC
#38

And a whole lot of private investigators are less "on the side of the law," and more, "On the side of the suspicious husband/wife that hired them."

BR
Braithwhite
2016-01-12 23:27 UTC
#39

Heartbreaker is NOT a nice person.  I will say no more. But his theme music is pretty darn nice. 

One of the things that I've been speculating about recently is whether or not Miss Information was in her straightjacket the entire time.  Picture this:

Miss Information is locked up in an asylum, but occasionally she can break free mentally and re-shape the world to her desires.  To a place where she isn't a gibbering lunatic in a dirty room, but one where she's glamorous and where the heroes can't ever triumph over her. One where she wins, all the time, and everyone loves her. 

One of the reasons I love this theory is because it offers an explanation for why her (ahem) chest seems more prominent on her new character card- because it is her fantasy, and she decided that she wanted to go up a cup size.  After all, when you can bend the world to your whim, who has to worry about things like underwire?

Seriously- think about it.  This explains everything.  Its all in her head.  The incap makes it totally clear that she's got a pretty vivid fantasy life going on- and you'll notice that in her incap her face is clear of the stone mask.  I'm guessing that the stone mask and the scars are what tie her to reality in her dreamscape, however tenuously, and when she tries to have things TOO much her way, they start to fade away until she's locked back in her head again.

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 12:55 UTC
#40

I totally overlooked that. Good catch. I really like this theory a lot! 

Something to keep in mind is that the order we see things released in game is never the order they happen in the fiction. I wouldn't put too much stock into that. VotM's Operative, for example, is her before she goes back to work for the Chairman a second time and how we see her in that deck.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 13:17 UTC
#41

The Operative in the Chairman's deck would seem to be from the first time he worked for her.   It references Mystery Comics 191 and the first listed appearance of the Operative is Mystery Comics 189.   Whereas the VotM deck lists Mystery Comics 489 and 490 in the deck.   I think her intention was to go back to the Chairman and she likely did based on her Sentinel Tactics bio but the Operative we see in the Chairman's deck is first iteration of her that the heroes face.  

RO
Ronway
2016-01-13 13:31 UTC
#42

If you look at The Operative's left arm you will see a dragon tattoo. The very similar to the one that Dark Watch Mister Fixer has on his chest after being brought back by Zhu Long. However, on her card Poisoned Blade, we see a bigger dragon tattoo on her back. Does this mean she has visited Zhu Long on more than one occasion?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 13:39 UTC
#43

She probably did.  Her tattoos extend to both arms and across her chest in Tactics.  

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 14:15 UTC
#44

Fair enough. That was evidently a poor example. But I think my original point is still valid that the order of stuff released in-game =/= order of the fiction, and that reasoning alone is not enough to either accept/reject any story based theory.

Other (hopfully better!) examples: Beard Ra/Ennead released before the V5 but takes place after the V5 was formed. Also going with the V5, Realm of Discord shows Blade losing his scar (resembling Tactics era Blade) while the V5 shows him at the height of his self-mutilation/experimentation. The Dreamer's Ape didn't release in-game until Shattered Timelines, but his first apperance in the fiction occurs long before most of the stuff released at that time.  

 

RO
Ronway
2016-01-13 14:19 UTC
#45

The Baron Blade on Realm of Discord looks to be Vengeance Baron Blade rather than Tactics. At least that's what I see.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 14:35 UTC
#46

I understand that but it seems like Kaarga Warfang is pretty late timeline wise listing issues of FF 720.  In her title deck we see normal Tony Taurus.

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 15:50 UTC
#47

And don't you think the fact that we see Tony at all is a little strange? Not seeing how Tony being in plain clothes means much one way or the other.

Doesn't Baron have his white coat on in the RoD art though? Maybe I'm just remembering it wrong. Either way it still means they were released out of order they happened in the fiction.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 15:58 UTC
#48

Heartbreaker shows up in Celestial Tribunal in the Heartbreaker outfit so why would it be missing at the Colosseum when other heroes in title cards seem to only have variations to their outfits.   The title cards also don't show any villains.   Char(Indiscriminate title) and Tony are both from environments.   

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 16:35 UTC
#49

You put too much stock into the order things are released in-game. I don't see how that alone validates anything. We don't have a "first apperance" of Heartbreaker to go off of, so whos to say that he hasn't been around since before the Bloodsworn arc? We don't know. But its certainly plausable. It's also plausable that IF Tony is Heartbreaker that he doesn't have his costume on 24/7. Could his "street clothes" be a sort of "outfit variation"? Idk. I would bet good money on Mayor Overbrook being around in the comics for a good long while. I doubt the first time we meet that character in the fiction is this close to the end of the comic run yes?

Char is certainly a villain (see: Scum and Villainy art). 

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 16:38 UTC
#50

It's not just about release order.  Kaarga Warfang shows up very late per the Freedom Five issue numbers in her deck.  Char is a bad guy as he did end up in the Block but he is never a villain target and even more so based off his card he doesn't care who he hurts villain or hero.   

 

Edit:

I'll agree on Mayor Overbrook that he probably has been around a while but if that's the case then you also have to consider that Heartbreaker came about before or at the same time as Tony as well.   It's plausible Tony could also be Heartbreaker but I still think it's more likely a separate person.  

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-13 17:25 UTC
#51

If I may...

I'm not sure if this got missed/overlooked, but I'd like everyone's thoughts on my supporting theory.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 17:37 UTC
#52

Dr Tremata has a similar affect on her card but I like the idea.   

BR
Braithwhite
2016-01-13 17:44 UTC
#53

Well, we know that Mayor Overbrook has been around at least as long as Rook City Wraith. 

As for Tony, have you considered how traumatic it could be to be caught up in the Arena?  Especially for someone from Rook City, the place where there is never a clean victory, who was used to operating at the grey edges. Fighting aliens and fellow prisoners using only his fists and whatever he could scavenge... Maybe forgotten by the heroes when they managed to get out, or forced to abandon a friend to survive. Or torn away from someone he promised to save, and when he finally made it back, they were gone...

What might that do to a person?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 17:48 UTC
#54

What series and issue number does Heartbreaker reference on his card?   I don't have access at the moment to the cards otherwise I'd look it up myself.   

 

Edit:  There is also Christopher's post where we get his name originally and its indicated that he is newish. https://greaterthangames.com/comment/90344#comment-90344

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 17:58 UTC
#55

Why though? I don't quite see your line of reasoning. I could certainly see the storyline being that of Tony's slow decline and downfall into villainhood. It's a classic. When you first meet Tony in the comics he could start out as a well meaning PI but slowly gets beaten down and goes through the character transformation into villain.

All I've ever tried to say here is that it is plausible (with a good handfull of circumstantial evidence to back it up). It's not a foregone fact you are totally right there, but the signs we have been given point that direction. I havn't quite seen anything to totally disprove it at least.

Also, just because you are not a specific villain target doesn't mean you are not a villain. Targets in Environment decks that I would consider villains/evil/bad guys: The Silver Gulch Gang, Anubis, Portal Fiends, Proto-PlaugeRat monsters, Vampires, Celestial Executioners, ect.ect. So I'm not sure I follow your first point there either.

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 18:03 UTC
#56

Doesn't that play more into the theory that he is Tony? "New(ish)". New villain name we havn't been introduced to, but not quite new since he is someone we already met? That's what I'd infer New(ish) to mean. 

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 18:12 UTC
#57

It infers it is someone that may have been encountered but we got similar information about Guise for the longest time.   

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 18:19 UTC
#58

I've agreed it's plausible Heartbreaker is Tony Taursus.    However, the timing just seems odd between cards whether we are talking about it based on issue numbers or game release.

Also, just because you are not a specific villain target doesn't mean you are not a villain. Targets in Environment decks that I would consider villains/evil/bad guys: The Silver Gulch Gang, Anubis, Portal Fiends, Proto-PlaugeRat monsters, Vampires, Celestial Executioners, ect.ect. So I'm not sure I follow your first point there either.

If a environment target is indiscriminate about who it attacks between heroes or villain I would consider them neutral and neither hero or villain.   Except for the Vampires and Celetial ones which I can't look up all of those groups are neutral in my mind.   

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 19:38 UTC
#59

Indiscriminate =/= neutral. Are they not all antagonists to our protagonists in a narrative sense? Just because they antagonise main storyline villains as much as our heros doesn't make them any less antagonists

Heartbreakers flavor text is from Mystery Comics #489 and he mentions that he is "back in town". You wouldn't say "hey guess who's back guys!" if you were not previously there to begin with. Just my take on it. Just because his flavor text is from that issue doesn't mean that it is his first apperance in the comics. 

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 19:53 UTC
#60

It doesn't make them specifically antagonists either.   Neutral may not have been the best word but they are indiscriminate as to who they'll go after.  As to the issue number it just gives a reference point but I agree it may not be his first appearance.   When I saw Tony Taurus I think Ben Urich which is why I don't think he is Heartbreaker. 

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-13 20:03 UTC
#61

I've always interpreted most environments to be neutral in the sense that a huge battle is going on and the denizens are trying to defend themselves from all the carnage. Can't exactly blame The Kraken for shooting the biggest thing he can see, be it friend or foe. Anything bad that happens from non-environment targets are just hazards in the workplace. A volcano is about as neutral as neutral gets.

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 20:43 UTC
#62
an·tag·o·nist
noun
plural noun: antagonists
  1. a person who actively opposes or is hostile to someone or something; an adversary.
     
Yes. Yes it does.
P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-13 21:04 UTC
#63

So they are antagonists at times.  It doesn't mean Tony Taurus becomes the antagonist Heartbreaker.  He could become him but I don't think he does.  

RA
Rabit
2016-01-13 21:48 UTC
#64

Hey, folks? Keep it cool. There are different interpretations of limited information and different views on who these characters are. Please do continue discussing those interpretations and views, but let's refrain from antagonizing each other. (Sorry -- pun not intended! ![](upload://ywbUI0VpiqPxpAJeMwxbOmjwDa.gif))

Greatly appreciate it...

FO
Foote
2016-01-13 23:06 UTC
#65

I never made the argument that it did.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2016-01-14 13:59 UTC
#66

Also, for example, Ambitious Racketeer is most certainly an antagonist; he only attacks the heroes.

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-14 16:41 UTC
#67

Char is a bad guy as he did end up in the Block but he is never a villain target and even more so based off his card he doesn't care who he hurts villain or hero.

Yeah, I think this argument kinda throws off the line of reasoning behind whether or not an environment target is or isn't a future villain or hero. Simply put, the environment's alliance isn't cut and dry. It is a blend of support and hinderance, discriminiate or not.

To point the speculation in a different direction, though, I think it's worth noting that both are associated with "the side of the law," and "couldn't protect those around him, or himself." This directly points to the mechanics of Tony Taurus, as the drawback is that either himself or an ally gets injured. That's the best supporting evidence in my eyes.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-14 18:12 UTC
#68

Dr Tremata also has the same effect.   I see it as just being a danger for them or the hero they speak with to give them information.   Private Investigators also aren't always on the side of the law.   Their goal is to gather information on what they got hired for and at times will cross the law to get that.   Mostly I just wish I had someone else I could pose as being Heartbreaker instead of Tony Taurus.   I'm not sure if it's because I see Tony being like Ben Urich or what but it just doesn't feel like Tony is Heartbreaker.  

FO
Foote
2016-01-14 18:35 UTC
#69

Dude this is totally 100% good stuff. My intention wasn't to shoot you down at all. Sometimes, especially with me, speculation tries to push square pegs into round holes. You reach sometimes because all you have is circumstantial evidence to go off of. Honestly I really like the Ben Urich angle. 

I will say though that if Tony was more like Ben Urich I would have assumed his picture would have been next to dr tremata as a likely high priority target. Maybe Tony was also killed by Heartbreaker and just not shown on screen but I'm not sure why that would be the case (aside from intentional misdirection).

TR
Trajector
2016-01-14 18:47 UTC
#70

On the Celestial Tribunal card “Found Wanting,” does anybody else think it looks like Dr. Tremata was one of Heartbreaker’s victims?

FO
Foote
2016-01-14 18:48 UTC
#71

I think that is strongly implied. But i've been wrong a lot in the past. Anyone take it a different way?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-14 19:03 UTC
#72

I thought it was Dr Tremata on that card.   However, the text from Heartbreaker leaves me wondering if it is showing glimpses of the future or if he just didn't have much regard for his victims.  

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-14 19:05 UTC
#73

Dr Tremata also has the same effect.

I don't see this as evidence for or against anything, really. We don't know what her story is, but whether or not she chooses to allow her misfortunes dictate her future is independant of what happens to Taurus.

I see it as just being a danger for them or the hero they speak with to give them information.   Private Investigators also aren't always on the side of the law.   Their goal is to gather information on what they got hired for and at times will cross the law to get that.

You don't think his tendency to bend the rules is curious? It's much easier to get the job done if he doesn't have to abide by them. As a criminal, the only one he has to answer to is himself.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-01-14 19:09 UTC
#74

It certainly could be but if you are going to say Tony tows the line like that due to his game text then Dr Tremata is a questionable character herself.  Based on the one card it would seem she is dead so nothing came of it.  

FO
Foote
2016-01-14 19:17 UTC
#75

The flavor text on Found Wanting is certainly curious. I don't think it is glimpses of the future, but then again we don't know a lot about how the prosecution works or how they gather evidence. It's possible they are so advanced they take future actions into account when judging ppl, but Im not sure there is enough evidence to back it up. You almost kinda have to assume it is past actions being shown.

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-14 19:21 UTC
#76

Keep in mind, Tremata deals with the environment, so it makes sense that she is a scientist. There aren't too many moral issues with her line of work. She's just doing her research, and doesn't at all seem to mind that the heroes are bothering her to find out what they're up against.

Taurus, on the other hand is shown to pull the old "good cop/bad cop" routine, as suggested by his flavor text:

"I'm here to get information," Tony stated, calmly holstering his revolver. "You will tell me what I want to know. Now, how do you want this to go?"

That's my thoughts as far as that goes. Sure they operate similarly, but their professions and quotes suggest they have different personalities.

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-01-15 00:03 UTC
#77

 

I'm pretty solid on it being Tremata as well.

 

I don't remember the exact wording on the card, but it did seem like it was more an uncaring attitude than glimpses of the future. "Looks like something I'd do, but I'm not saying I did it" attitude could also fit… If I had access to my cards right now I'd double check the phrasing to be sure.

KI
Killswitch
2016-01-15 14:04 UTC
#78

It's definitely Tremata. Same hairstyle, same ID badge.

MC
McBehrer
2016-01-31 04:34 UTC
#79

Dammit. He did come up with it before me. I thought I was the first one to have that idea, when they first showed the For Profit promo for him. Now I’m disappointed…

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-03-09 18:56 UTC
#80

To put this to rest Christopher gave me a straight answer on this in the AMA:

Sonvar:Did Tony Taurus become Heartbreaker? Why was Tony Taurus at the Colosseum?
GtGChristopher:I did say "Ask Me Anything", didn't I?Yes.Because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but also, he was out of other options.

 

So I was wrong but I certainly had hoped otherwise.  Darn you Rook City for your corruption.

CH
Chaosmancer
2016-03-10 00:08 UTC
#81

We really need someone with the time and patience to go through all this twitch logs and the AMA and pull out a compendium of all this awesome lore Christopher is sharing now. So many things getting revealed.

SA
saykhia
2016-03-10 00:52 UTC
#82

Also, CON was built by Unity, Mr Fixer and Argent Adept out of bits of Omnitron.

FO
Foote
2016-03-10 13:18 UTC
#83

One thing I found really interesting is that the Biomancer copy of Argent Adept actually has a real Instrument of the Void, but a "darker" one. That really caught my eye, as it means there are more potential Instruments out there and that some can actually be weilded by beings who are not the chosen Adept.

TH
TheSoundOfTrees
2016-03-10 15:02 UTC
#84

I think someone pointed it already long ago, but Remorseless Provocation, from Apostate's deck, shows Tony being "stabbed" in the heart by Apostate, with a "do unto others" quote. It took a recent game for me to suddenly realize it looked exactly like Heartbreaker's favorite move. I guess it's the moment he turned to the dark side...

And I wonder - could the fact that Expatriette found love with some one else be one of the causes for him turning to evil ? Heartbroken and all ?

RO
Ronway
2016-03-10 15:10 UTC
#85

That is not Tony Taurus, that is our very own pwatson1974!

IR
Ironic
2016-03-10 17:14 UTC
#86

Unless... pwatson was Tony Taurus ALL ALONG!

TR
Trajector
2016-03-10 20:28 UTC
#87

Hopefully, all that lore will get to the wiki!

JF
jffdougan
2016-03-10 20:34 UTC
#88

This weekend, I plan to catch up on my misc lore page on the wiki.

PH
phantaskippy
2016-03-10 20:59 UTC
#89

Nope, evil twin.

PW
pwatson1974
2016-03-11 08:13 UTC
#90

I resent that. Tony is not my evil twin.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2016-03-11 13:50 UTC
#91

Good twin?

RA
Rabit
2016-03-11 13:55 UTC
#92

So... Pwatson is the evil twin? 

KI
Killswitch
2016-03-11 13:59 UTC
#93

Tony Taurus is Heartbreaker. Confirmed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/49oetg/ama_with_christopher_badell_cofounder_of_greater/

(Ctrl+F is your friend!)

P2
Powerhound_2000
2016-03-11 14:03 UTC
#94

I posted that earlier in this thread https://greaterthangames.com/comment/136564#comment-136564

KI
Killswitch
2016-03-11 14:18 UTC
#95

Ah, so you did.

That's what I get for posting while half-awake.

IR
Ironic
2016-03-11 19:21 UTC
#96

Ctrl+F is your friend.

RA
Raccoonoo
2016-03-11 22:56 UTC
#97

I find it interesting that Drake actually had that dark instrument at some point, because he’s using it in the new promo art we saw in KS update #3 (And, just in case you thought the rose wasn’t evil, there are creepy screaming faces in the background).

JF
jffdougan
2016-03-12 03:38 UTC
#98

I can't recall off-hand what kind of instrument is pictured there. Help?

BR
Bard_of_the_Runekeepers
2016-03-14 21:57 UTC
#99

Wait, that new AA picture has him using the "dark instrument?" I didn't notice that.

BR
Bard_of_the_Runekeepers
2016-03-14 22:26 UTC
#100

Oh, is that a baton that the rose is wrapped around? I just assumed it was a "look cool and sophisticated" rose.

IR
Ironic
2016-03-14 23:03 UTC
#101

Huh.  I had not noticed until just now that The Carbon Adept is holding the same "rose-and-baton" thing as the Not-Qvothe promo art.

BR
Bard_of_the_Runekeepers
2016-03-14 23:29 UTC
#102

Yeah...interesting. They did say the new art would have new story elements. 

IR
Ironic
2016-03-15 15:11 UTC
#103

It'll be cool to see what name they give Not-Qvothe's innate Power.  A really sinister name might imply that card IS the Carbon Adept.

BR
Bard_of_the_Runekeepers
2016-03-15 17:30 UTC
#104

Would they change the power name? 

 

Though the Carbon Adept breaking free of the Biomancer's control would be really cool. The color scheme of the art, now that I look at it, is very similar to the Carbon Adept.

IR
Ironic
2016-03-16 22:04 UTC
#105

Yeah, the Adept had that black cloak from the start, but it seems a lot more pronounced on those two.

 

I don't know whether the power name might change, but it's not a game mechanic, so it might.  We also may get hints from the promo's new name.

BR
Bard_of_the_Runekeepers
2016-03-16 23:45 UTC
#106

That is true