Fanatic's Broken Absolution

I can't speak to how intentional that is, but that's a fantastic point. Check out the PWFanatic description:

" After years of going from extreme to extreme, Fanatic finally found some moderation... she stands more resolute than ever - not for vengeance or for zealotry, but for the defense of the innocent and the advancement of the greater good."

But Truth (with a capitol T) if not that different from Absolutism really, it still implies a single objective truth or reality. Fanatic is probably always going to hold that philisophical belief, but her encounters with Apostate and Truth force her to rethink where that reality centers on.

It's also interesting to note how Apostate and Truth are almost polar opposites. Apostate represented deception and lies and Truth, though we know nothing about his character, his name alone invokes that stark dichotomy between them. Only after battling through both of these philosophical obsticals is Fanatic able to find "moderation". It's quite beautiful really.

Maybe it means that the truth is she was never going to find absolution, or that was the wrong goal. She was forced to see her stance objectively and because of that she was able to be a hero, in a way she wasn't able to before.

I had more on the symbolism of her new look, but I think if we want to explore this further, we should do it in its own thread

Your wish is my command.

I think you guys are misudnerstanding what "Absolution" means... It's effectively forgiveness, especially on a formal scale (EG, in court or- the likely meaning in this case- before God); it has nothing to do with zealotry or absolutism (and arguably, absolutism could even be considered an opposite view to absolution). Now, there is clear symbolism in the fact that Apostate's blade is called Condemnation, as condemnation is the clear and polar opposite of absolution.

Yes. It comes from "absolve" not "absolute".

They both come from "absolvere" in Latin.

"The truth will set you free."

The word "absolve" means to formally release from guilt, obligation, or punishment.

Maybe Absolution is not what empowers Fanatic, but rather a burden that she unwittingly bears.  When Truth breaks Absolution, he is symbolically setting Fanatic free from what shackles her to her narrow-minded outlook of good and evil.  He is...wait for it...absolving her of her obligation and fanaticism.

I love this.

Absolution could have been Dumbo's feather, and Truth destroys that idea.

So her task was to bring absolution to the people she fought, and Truth broke her off that task? I'm loving this metaphor BTW. Even if it is a little vague

I really think this is an important part of the narrative progression for Fanatic, especially when it comes to her and Apostate.

Both of her Zealotry and Vengeance extreames much blind her to the truth of what Apostate is and what she is in a way. Too focused on either side of these coinds to see clearly. This middle ground might open her eyes to a new revelation.

Costume wise, she is a solid mix of both her original outfit and her Redeemer armor that represents this new found middle ground for her. But the background is, I think, the most important part of the art. Where is she?

I bet this is the home of The Host, where she can make her final confrontation with Apostate and whoever Apostate is an emissary for...

To expound a bit on my earlier speculation:

From Apostate's bio (emphasis mine):

"Fanatic, the winged angel of vengeance, has great strength and great power, but those abilities rely entirely upon her world view - her faith. So, when the black-winged man attacked her, claiming her to be one of his kind, she was taken aback. Bezaliel, as he called himself, pointed out all their similarities: their wings, their powers, even their swords! Bezaliel insisted to Fanatic throughout their fights that she was in fact his creation, and not a holy angel at all! Shaken, Fanatic fled from their initial confrontation, needing to meditate on these claims.

With Fanatic out of the picture, Bezaliel began his assault, bringing terror and destruction to the world by summoning demonic entities to this plane. The heroes of the world joined forces to face him, calling him "Apostate", and he proved a terrible threat to the very existence of mankind."

Fanatic does not know where Absolution came from.  It gets its name from the "Angelic" runes written on it.  Maybe Apostate is the one who created Absolution and uses it to control Fanatic (either literally or psychologically).  Fanatic's battle with Truth results in the destruction of Absolution and the revelation of the truth:  namely that Apostate is a liar and her powers do not rely solely on her faith.  She can thus continue to bring justice to the world without the need for Absolution.

Well she does know where Absolution came from. The sword and her armor she found in the catacombs, and she inscribed those runes in the blade during her sleep.

I do agree that she is not a holy angel, and maybe she comes to realise this as well in her PW form. But I do not believe Fanatic is Apostates creation. The things he says are probably half truths at best. He is a deciever.

I should have elaborated:  I mean to say he created her in the sense that he may have provided her with her gear and guided her on her path without her knowledge.  That might be a stretch though.

It's really possible. I talked a lot about Apostate in my Footenotes thread on the subject. It's interesting to note that, of all the villains ever released, we know the absolute least about Apostate. I think thats intentional because of his role with The Host, and the Host is most likely the Big Bad who caused the time cataclysm that we have been speculating on for years.

Is PW Fanatic summoning or renouncing Absolution? And if so, should we see this metaphorically as well?

Am I the only one who sees "PW" and thinks "paulwatson?"

Perhaps. The archway on the bottom left has a church-like shape to it and with the dark grey smoky swirls or shapes, I am going for a "Shady Church". 

I agree. And given the non-subtle religeous undertones of "The Host" and the whole Apostate/Fanatic thing, I think the fact that it looks like a shady church lends creedence to the idea that this is where the The Host resides.

I also do not believe she is "renouncing" her blade. I think she will still carry it with her.

*bites tongue to keep from commenting on "Shady Church"*

To me it looks like she's summoning it, a la Luke Skywalker or Thor.

All churches are shady. There. I got you covered buddy. I won't let a mod get his hands dirty

I have to reprimand you for that. REPRIMAND!

I take you you never have been to the church of Ronway.

No but I'm willing to be converted if your rhetoric is good enough. You'll have to pull me away from pastafarianism, so I hope you can top a delicious tomato sauce.

I hear the Church of Ronway provides free cheeseburgers.

But it's definitely shady. 

And here you accuse ME of bragging about having information that others don't…

I umm...I don't think his comment had anything to do with SotM Behrer haha

Shady churchs aside, I think the symbolism on PW Fanatic's card is important. Her eye is revealed again, often a symbol for revelation. The blinders of redeemers outfit symbolize her being blinded by her rage, so having that broken could mean what we've already learned: she has seen the Truth and put aside her old beliefs

Yeah, I was refraining from making a potentially offensive statement. Which, I will say, I did wonderfully at. 

Then is The Host the guy on Brutal Censure?

Oh. I guess I just didn't get it then.

I don't think we've seen The Host yet.   At the moment it's speculated he will be the villain from the last expansion 

I think that may just be a random priest that she is expressing dissaproval of. Just like the gentleman in Final Dive is just a random dude and not part of the greater story at large. I imagine both of those art pieces come from very early Fanatic issues as she is exploring her powers in the context of her deep Zealotry during that phase of her life.

The Host implies a large group, rather than a specific individual.

That's very true… Foote, you've been lying to us about errything

The Host, at least in Christian theology, indeed has a higharchy however. It's plausable the Host in the SotM universe has a top of the foodchain type leader. 

Apostate is the "Emissary" for someone/thing

The Host is listed as Apostate's affiliation. I doubt there's a villain named The Host.

I would be surprised if there are any random dudes anywhere in the art.

Also The Host could be in the parasitic ense of an organism hosting a second organism. However, given it is listed as Apostate's group affiliation, it is probably used in the overwhelming hordes sense.

Especially since he is presented as a fallen angel

Some people might say that it… Went over your head.

Edit: For people who didn't get it. https://greaterthangames.com/comment/79112#comment-79112

(Nicely done, sir. )

(I just couldn't resist…)

It is true. I have failed.

and for those of you that don't get THAT reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysT_hI4mTx0

We do know who the leader of The Host is, it is so obvious.....the Cursed Acolyte.

Notice that Fantaic isn't actually holding Absolution. Maybe she has even more control over it now that it is broken.

1.  I still think Fanatic is crazy and it's all in her head.  That's my favorite theory.  Also WTH messing with my hyper aggressive girl?  All this finding herself and becoming less crazy makes me sad.  Make with the crazy smiting already!

2.  If my theories on Bezaliel are on target he survived being cast into hell after the whole nephilim incident, and his affiliation could mean one of two things:

A.  He survived judgement and is still counted among the host of heaven.

B.  He is affiliated with his old comrades, and is trying to find a way to get them out.

I honestly don't know how much Christian Theology and mysticism Christopher has gotten into, but there is a period of silence from the restoration of Israel and the birth of Christ, a gradual lessenning that led to a dirth of direct involvement with humans.  After the church formation God is much more passive, letting his people screw up trying to do his work themselves.

It is in this time that Bezaliel has started acting.  What if he was in hiding still, not sure how much he could get away with, when Fanatic's actions revealed to him that the "powers up there" weren't paying attention.

The book of revelations should never be interpreted as most current evangelical christians interpret it, but under that interpretation (which was, by the way started by a conman/cult leader in the 1800s) a series of catastrophic events end in a final battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil called Armageddon.  (no Batman doesn't have sex with a half-elf and then have his life spared by her divorced ex-cop dad)

If the final boss would be a mega expansion against the Host, the title Armageddon would be increadibly fitting, and characters like the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse could very well be involved.

As for Absolution:

1.  Absolution was intended to be her own Absolution, her trying to earn her own salvation through fighting evil.

2.  Absolution was intended to bring Absolution to enemies, through their death.  Because she was a crazy crusader-style Fanatic.

Redeemer Fanatic comes back from being shattered by the knowledge that she is likely the same kind of creature as Apostate, armored now.  Not as reckless, more strategic.

Then Absolution is shattered by Truth, the truth corresponding with the first options:

1.  The knowledge that she cannot earn her own salvation, a very Christian theme.

2.  Something to shake her identity. She isn't a special dispenser of justice.  She's just a crazy Super-hero with a broken sword.

In the first option she joins a team in humility, realizing she doesn't have to do it all, and we are intended to work together.

In the second she is unable to continue her mission, and humbly starts to seek what really matters, protecting others.

Either way the theology gets weird and I would prefer the crazy.

The Armageddon idea makes me think of the X Men’s Apocalypse and how cool it would be to have some corrupted heroes as villains decks like is his theme.

And then Under3 makes me think of the rules the government wants in tactics; there has to be a reason to be scared of both heroes and villains

From what I’ve heard from Christopher Fanatic isn’t crazy or even unquestioning of her cause. She has just as much doubt as everyone else. Probably more since she’s sincerely committed to a theological perspective. She puffs her chest and pontificates to compensate for that. I’d be quite surprised and disappointed if that aspect of her character was discarded to make her “Murderous, Straw-Man, Jesus Nut: The Super Hero”.

I wouldn't label Fanatic a Straw-Man Jesus-Nut, she helps people and fights actual evil, instead of finding evil in whatever she doesn't like and then demanding the government protect her from anything that might make her uncomfortable.

When I say crazy what I mean is that she has super powers, not caused by her faith, but her faith is how they manifested themselves.  She hid out in the catacombs without proper food or water, that's how a lot of religious movements start.  Either God likes people when they go on hunger strikes, or you go a little crazy when you are all alone and malnurished.

I think she created her armor and sword, I think her faith crisis is legit because she doesn't know if that experience was real or somehow she experienced a creation of her own desire for it to be real.

In other words the struggle many thoughtful people go through in dealing with a God that refuses to make it easy.  Powerful experiences with no provable source lead to both faith and doubt.  One of Fanatics greatest strengths is her faith, that knowledge that there is something worth fighting for, that she is on the right side, and that her work will be rewarded is powerful motivation.  Doubts don't help you fight better.

You know one thing I have always wondered about Fanatic that I don't think I have ever seen explained... How did Templar armor and weaponry find it's way to catacombs in Peru?

I put them there.

*smoke bombs*

Could have been brough there by the Conquistadors. There were often Jesuits with them, and it's not too much of a stretch to say that some would have artifacts of the Templar- especially not by comic book standards.

You as in Christopher Badell or you as in Citizen Anvil?

Or Wraith, he does have smoke bombs.

makes me think of the skit by the Dead Ales Wives on dnd 

So Price of Freedom Wraith is actually Citizen Anvil?  That makes sense.

Does Citizen Anvil have a background in armor smithing? I'm acutally pretty curious about that.

And you know…in dawns deck…Anvil does look like he sorta has wings…

Not only does it look like it, he actually can create those wings. While I don't play WoW myself, I believe some mentioned that it resembles a skill a Paladin uses.

Christopher knows blacksmithing.

While we're talking about Fanatic, I need to share this news with you. http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/497171/Supermoon-triggers-end-of-world-Sunday

Aawww, too bad we won't see that moon with the remnants of hurricane Bertha sweeping over Brittain and all…

Ii know there’s a good joke About the start of the environment turn in there, but it’s just not coming to me.

I've had the last hero refuse to end their turn, because at the start of the environment turn their golems and Dr. Tremata would be destroyed.

I think that "Absolution" refers to the Absolution of the world, through the destruction of all evil in it.  With that in mind, what about this interpretation: Upon recieving her wings, Fanatic came to the incorrect conclusion that she was an angel with a unique comission to carry out the Lord's judgement, thus purging or "absolving" the world.  Her encounter with Apostate was a blow to her pride, but she is described as "refreshed in the knowledge of her steadfast rightousness" after coming out of her 3-day meditation.  But of course, pride cometh before the fall.  When her sword was shattered by Citizen Truth, several truths were revealed to her:

1. Her goal--namely, Absolution--is a flawed one.  This world is a fallen one; it will never be cleansed of sin, that is what the next world is for.
2. She was out of place in even trying to absolve the world, for absolution comes through faith in Christ alone.  Thinking that she could absolve the world by her own power was born of the prideful desire to do God's job for him.  
3. By trying to play God, Fanatic herself sinned, and she needs absolution just as much as any of the villains she fought, or any of the heroes she fought alongside.  

She still wields the half-sword as a reminder of her fall, to keep herself humble.  She might also keep it to remind herself of her own need for absolution, and not her own.  Symbolically, her original drive for Absolution was half-true, as there was guilt that needed to be absolved, but she was wrong about whose.  Now she wields only half of her sword, the (symbolically) true part. 

No longer the haughty "angel," Fanatic is now humble enough to join a team of other heroes as equals, rather than believing herself superior or self-rightous, the beliefs that hampered her interactions with the other heroes before.  These heroes are, fittingly, the Prime Wardens; the guardians of all that is good in this fallen world.  That is Fanatic's new mission.  She has abandoned her "comission" to deal out the Lord's wrath, and has taken up the Golden Rule of loving her neighboor as herself.  She will now work "for the defense of the innocent and the advancement of the greater good."  or self-rightous, the beliefs that hampered her interactions with the other heroes before.  This is moderation: not prideful judgement (Original Fanatic), not self-doubt and shame (Redeemer Fanatic), but love for others. 

My theory: Fanatic is Dave Strider.

Absolution is Caledfwch, the LEGENDARY PIECE OF ****

That's an interesting take on Absolution, Pinecone. I always saw it as an emblem of her own absolution. A way of justifying the violence she must commit in the path of righteousness.

The reason I think that she's talking about absolving the world is that she says "absolution you shall deliver" to her sword.  And swords, well, they are used to kill people.  So if the sword is simultaneously killing and taking an active role in the "absolution," it doesn't make sense that she would be absolving herself of violence by committing violence.

Suicide is a sin. Fanatic wouldn't do that.

I know.  What I meant is that it's difficult to absolve oneself of violence while committing violence against others (villains specifically)

Absolution doesn't have to be for something she's done, it could be for her perception of herself.

Fanatic knew whe was different, and thought she would be hunted for it.  It could be that she grew up in a harsh environment and her fight against evil could be a search for Absolution for herself, from what she is, or from perceived faults that she can't control.

Many unstable minds (and stable ones too) see in themselves all sorts of faults that may or may not exist but are perceived as terrible unforgivable things.

Give Fanatic a harsh upbringing with a heavy sense of obligation given that her life was spared, and a penchant for instability we see (at least in her early career) and I think it is possible that Absolution is her sword and her quest, to try and earn approval and forgiveness.

I always saw that as meaning that she was absolving those she used the sword against of their sins. So she, Fanatic, was releasing them of their guilt through purifying punishment, her sword, so in the end they could reach peace in the afterlife. She saw herself as an agent of good… the Ultimate agent of good, ridding the world of evil and redeeming, through Absolution, those who committed evil deeds. 

I see the broken sword as a symbol of her moderation. The evil can be punished and perhaps even redeemed without the need for such a final solution. Her sword is no longer the only means to Absolution. 

I thought it was wry humour

"For your sins, I offer you Absolution."

Here’s a different theory: what if the sword is absolving a specific person. Not Fanatic, but the original wielder of the sword and armor.

Oooooooooh…what if Apostate originally wielded those?

Little detail I noticed while perusing the art of cards shown in the tactics rule book, On the Staff of ra card, which shows some trophy cases with stuff like an omnitron peice, shows a shattered condemnation, broken almost idenically to Absoultion, with the pieces are also collected in the case.