College and Majors and Stuff!

[Christopher's note: split from https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/vengeance-matriarch-4652]

We're actually quite simple creatures most of the time, just don't take away our coffee.

Or give us too much coffee, that's bad too.

Don't make fun of our favorite T.V shows or books either. Those are among the small number of things we'd be willing to fight for.

I'm just saying that we have a lot of people who look at the text of cards from a legal, engineering, or proggramming background, and the ways of the literary crowd are not our ways.

Honestly so much made sense the second I read that Christopher was an English major.

I play with a lot of lawyers too... nothing irks them more than vague rules. If SotM was a competitive they would have come to blows by now. As it is they just rather not play it that often. 

We have two English Literature students, a Philosophy student, an Art student, a Theatre student, and a Nursing student.

We generally just run to the forum with rules questions!

Please tell me I'm not the only one here who hasn't had the time or money for college in their life....

My weekly game group consists of 2 doctoral candidates who work at the Wright Patterson AFB, a Masters' student studying English as a Second Language, an ex-teacher turned defense contractor, my wife (who's a thesis presentation away from having her Masters' in Biology), and myself with a Master of Arts in Teaching (English/Language Arts).  

Don't worry! I'm totally in a very similar boat!

I didn't, so I took out huge loans over 6 years (leaving twice to work for more money) and now It's 10 years later and I don't have a degree and those loans will be paid off in another 10 years.

I learned a lot, and met my wife so no complaints there, but yeah, that's my story.

I was one class from graduating (dumb error on several people's part) when My wife got her job in Chicago, and after moving to Pittsburgh I looked into finishing, but you can't take your last classes off campus or transfer them in, and 4hours of driving 3 days a week with an infant I was responsible for wasn't going to happen.

I've made two attempts at a degree at university and had to give up half-way through both times due to fibromyalgia. Lack of sleep, constant pain and fatigue and cognitive difficulties due to said pain and fatigue don't mesh terribly well with studying, unfortunately. I'm smart and used to do well academically but now I'm often completely unable to think or learn or remember anything in the slightest bit complicated, like my natural brain's all covered up with a heavy blanket. 

I'd totally go back and finish if it was possible. But I can't see it happening. :/ I'm stuck in idiot mode.

My group consists entirely of college students, with majors including film (which is what I am), computer science, biology (focus veterinarian), psychology, and music. So we've got a diverse group of scientists and artists.

Ahh, film. My undergrad in media theory/production was filled with being on student film sets. I swear most PA's got treated better than I did as the "sound guy". Really choose the bottom rung of that social ladder. Most of them never noticed the hidden fart sounds scattered through their films.

Get your damn boom out of my shot.

I hope that you meant this sarcastically, because I've run into far too many people who think that the fact they didn't go to college meant they weren't smart or something. Drives me crazy when we create unfair expectations like that…

Ahem. Shouldn't you be working on some film…

(Totally kidding, Evan - given how long I sat on that "project", I'm the last person to complain! )

Nah, I'm smart. It's just, you know like in an RPG when you get hit with a curse or accidentally drink a potion that halves your INT score? That's what it feels like, like my brain can't work anywhere near the capacity I know it has. I call it "idiot mode" because it doesn't reflect my true intelligence. I got into one of the best universities in the country (twice) and I have 6 A Levels, so I can't be naturally stupid.

No negativity towards non-college-people, smart or otherwise - I know many smart people who didn't go and many not-so-smart people who did. And there's different kinds of intelligence anyway, I just happen to be lucky enough to be good at traditional learn-stuff-then-take-an-exam-on-it type intelligence. My dad didn't go to college and couldn't understand calculus if I spent months coaching him, but he can work out how to score a given number in so many darts finishing on a double like lightning, and recalculate if he misses a shot. And you should see him reversing a car with a trailer or caravan - he does it more easily than most people drive forwards. It's very impressive.

Meh, it's also cool if you're not smart in any way. If you're happy, and occasionally doing something useful in some way, I'm good with that. 

It's not an entirely unfair expectation…from the situation that Silverleaf describes, she has a hard time doing anything that would make her feel like she was improving her own mind, so being bummed out as a result isn't entirely a result of her being brainwashed by the for-profit education industry.  (Though of course such brainwashing does totally exist.)

Some sort of education is a very good thing to have, and we should probably not encourage a social perspective that it's unnecessary and that a completely un-educated hick's IQ means as much as the same number attached to someone who's literate and scholastically well-rounded.  The issue is that the Institutions of higher learning are far too stultified and formal, and do not make proper allowances for people's individuality (such as the issues that Silverleaf describes).  If someone isn't able to study, they shouldn't be expected to; they might take far longer to achieve the same amount of coursework, but they ought not to be charged far more money as a result (especially on top of their medical bills).  There are other ways for them to demonstrate progress and prove their worth as a human being - but it should require some proving.  Even if all people are created equal, they definitely aren't all equal by the time they reach the age of majority; they deserve to have the same opportunities, but some people never take any advantage of said opportunities, and shouldn't be entitled to all the same rewards as those who did.

College isn't for everyone in the same vein that the millitary isn't for everyone. Some people don't need a college education to make a successful business to be happy in life, other people like the academic environment as well as the people they meet there. I think education is great and something everyone should strive for, but if you go to college it should be because you want to. If you're only going because you feel some obligation to, then you probably will get burned out quickly and have a miserable time. Although I think college is great, I do think it's wrong to look down on people who didn't go or jobs such as garbage collectors, mechanics, or coffee shop workers because those jobs are needed and performed by real people with their own hopes and dreams.

Those jobs may be needed, but most people who are doing them would rather be doing something else, if doing something else didn't arbitrarily require a college degree.  (I have literally seen job postings where they don't care WHAT your degree is, but absolutely insist you MUST have one.  I want to see someone who has a degree in something utterly ridiculous like Pre-Columbian Nuclear Economics apply to those jobs.)

That's a gross overgeneralization.  There are some mechanics who love working on cars.  There are people in the food service industry who love making food (I look at the huge amount of food trucks in major cities right now).  

Implying that a 'utilitarian' job isn't as worthy as an academically-rigorous job and that every mechanics must have some deeper desire to do something "worthwhile" is a disservice to both their job and their choices as a human being.

They want to know you have the commitment and ability and work skills like organisation and such (and let's face it, intelligence) necessary to gain a degree. They don't care what you actually know, just that you were able to be successful at that level, since it's easier than actually testing everyone for the relevant skills.

In fact the opposite is also true: some people don't get jobs because they're overqualified, and employers understandably assume that they just want a stopgap job until a "real" job comes along. No point wasting your time and money training the person who'll have moved on in three months. 

There are plenty of people in jobs that require college degrees that would rather be doing something else if they could. Most work just kind of sucks. It's very rare for someone to be in a job that gives them both financial security and intellectual and emotional fulfillment. For the most part, work is something you do to pay the bills and hopefully have some money aside to enjoy and pursue other hobbies like Sentinels.

My dad escaped civil war Guatemala and the squalor down there (yes he was an illegal immigrant but is now a US citizen if anyone cares) and is now an autobody technician aka mechanic. He loves his job! Until he gets tired of it and moves to a different auto-body shop. That is more due to management than anything else though. I'm not offended just offering up a different viewpoint. 

Yeah, totally get that. I think I've shown my idiot side enough on these forums to prove it. Struggled with ADHD all my life, along with other crap that just makes it worse. You know what I mean: life.

That's really interesting. Can't be easy moving to an alien country, even if you're moving from somewhere that's not too nice.

(I'm secretly jealous of people with exciting family stuff like that. As far back as I've traced my family history, I keep seeing English, English, English, coal miner, agricultural labourer, cutler/tool grinder, coal miner, coal miner. Makes the record-hunting easier, but much more boring). 

I sympathise, it's difficult to deal with stuff like that that feels like it holds you back. That balance between fight and beat it and accept that you can't realistically have much effect on it is a tricky thing to achieve. 

Not to imply your excitement is "bad" or anything, but I know a guy who got deep into his family tree and found connections to Nazis.  It really shook him up.  Sometimes boring is better than excitement.

But, we all have our family burdens.  I seem to remember reading about an ancestor on my father's side who regularly scalped Native Americans.  Can't say that I was sad to find out he got dead because of it.

I just got access to my editing lab again. Considering it's my job to sit around in a lab full of computers with Adobe Premiere, it'll get done quite soon. 

^Too lazy to pirate/buy my own editing software!

Spouse dug in to her genealogy and discovered it wasn't so much a tree as a bush. Lots of interconnecting branches. Appalachia!

Nah, it's fine, I'm not really attached to the ancestors or anything, and I know whatever I find doesn't reflect on me anyway. I've felt a bit sad when I found out my great great grandfather died in the Somme in WW1 (it made the war real to me in a way that school never did) and another great great grandfather died in a mining accident (looking at the lists of deaths in just that one coal mine is pretty sobering), but that sadness is actually kind of nice, in a weird way.

Scalping! Wow, harsh. Was he killed by Native Americans then, if you don't mind me asking?

[quote=arenson9]

Spouse dug in to her genealogy and discovered it wasn't so much a tree as a bush. Lots of interconnecting branches. Appalachia![/quote]

I was expecting more of that in my own tree to be honest, but it turns out that miners move around a lot, and despite there being obvious patterns of lots of people moving in the same way (e.g. in one census I saw so many people living in the little village of Poolsbrook who were born in the town of Dudley 85 miles away), they tended to marry "out".

My Wife has Hessian Mercenaries from the Revolutionin her family, they fought for the Brittish, then after we kicked stinky Brittish back across the ocean they took their pay and bought farmland in PA.

All the rest of her family fled europe (Ireland and the famine, Italy and Slovakia before WWII)

I believe so, but I'm not sure.  I was in 8th grade the last time I did any research.  To give you context for how long ago that was, I'll be turning twenty-four in about two weeks.

See, you people are interesting. Not just miners and farm workers for you!

Had to look up how old 8th graders are. ;)  Yeah, that's a while ago. 

My dad once knew a garbage man. He loved his job, mostly because he was done by midday :P

Geneology! I'll get it on this.

I am the descendant of a bastard son of King Robert the Bruce, born during his reign to a woman of Clan Donnachaidh. Don't know too much more than that, other than he would have been in reasonable favour with the royal family of Scotland and allowed to keep the family name, "mac Robert."

At any rate, these are the fun things you can discover when poking around at Dunfermline Abbey and talking to historians.

On my end, family lore says that we're descended from Francis Scott Key (author of "The Defense of Fort McHenry", better known as "The Star-Spangled Banner."). However, we also think there's a name change in there so that the person we believe to be said bastard son is named George Washington Kay rather than Key. Corroborating circumstantial evidence is that nobody who has tried to tackle the problem can find anything about his parents. Everything just stops there.

Speaking of ancestors, it's kind of funny for me.  I'm half Scottish on both sides, and from my mom's side, we're related to this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_Dundonald)  TL;DR: He was a famous naval officer who helped start several South American navies and has a huge floor plaque in Westerminster Abbey as a result.

From my dad's side, we're descended from the Grahams of Montrose that were best known for an event where they surrendered in a clan war, then woke up in the middle of the night, massacred all the women and children, and fled into the night.  So....yeah.

Edit: Oh yeah, and we're related (via mom's side) to Abigail Adams, wife of the second president of the United States.

One of my groomsmen was also related to/descended from John Adams. He's even been named appropriately as J(ohn) Adam(s) Wyatt. J. Adam, and usually just called Adam.

You're not talking about the massacre at Glen Coe, are you? Because we may have words.

ahem. i was a NHS student, scored a 1400 on my SAT anf 32 on my ACT, and had two full ride academic scholarships offered to me when i was a jr in hs.

i soon flunked out of the college i chose to go to within 2 years (therr was a girl involved…)

after 8 more years of putzing around community college, i got an Associates Degree… in culinary arts.

I am Chef. i would never give this up for anything less, nor want to be anything but this. while the rank and file cooks at places like bob evans or max and ermas may only be there cause they are stuck.or dont have an.education, the /true/ part of the culinary world, the award winning food trucks, the catering services (mine), the restaurants that dont just microwave your meal…

those are filled with people with a passion. who answered a calling… because we wanted to

Nah, while there was a Graham involved in that (John Graham), I THINK he was a Graham of Melinthe instead of a Graham of Montrose, and it was mostly Campbells that did that.  In that one, they massacred after accepting the hospitality of the MacDonald's.  In the one I'm talking about, they had actually surrendered in battle.  I forget the specific name, but it wasn't nearly as famous as the massacre of Glen Coe, which spawned like a 100 year feud and numerous songs and poems.

Yeah. Honestly, I automatically think less of someone with the last name of Campbell because of that. I won't even wear Argyle socks, seriously.

Thats about the boat I am just entering… slightly lower SAT and ACT scores. I don't want to drop out of college but if I find something else I love, I can very much see myself switching. hmmm a chef huh? Hoping to find that passion one day (not necessarily as a cook). Also I have an ancestor who was the only one in her family to make it to America before the rest of her family was killed by Nazis. Greatgrandmother i think…

I double majored in English and History.  My last two years at college, I worked in the Library as a reference assistant.  Before that job, I had vague hopes abut being a teacher.  After my first couple of days in the library, answering questions, I knew what I wanted to do.

I managed to get a reference job in a public library right after college.  Five years later I went and got my Masters in Library science and a job as a reference/research Librarian.  

I got really, really, really lucky both in figuring out what I loved doing, and in the opportunity to do it.

I'll be paying off student loans for a LONG time, but don't regret it.

braith, im curious. one of the dishwashers here part times at a library and has been talking of going back for his masters as.well.

what do you do? what is your job desc? on one hand it seems like you wouldnt need a degree to work anything in a library, but i know thats not true so om genuinely curious what duties and things a masters of library sciences prepares you to do?

It's funny where life leads you; I'm excited/terrified to figure out what will come of mine and if I'll ever "figure it out".  I'm lucky enough to be very academically capable without putting much effort into it.  School always just clicked for me and taking tests and writing papers, no matter how little time I put into studying, usually netted me with excellent grades.

After graduating college with a double major in Economics and Finance I had this big "Now what?!" moment.  It had never really bothered me before; I chose an Econ/Finance major because I was good at it and found it mildly interesting (and my parents wouldn't let me choose a major that wasn't guaranteed to open some profitable doors).  But after taking that daunting step from college life to the real world, I realized I had very little idea what it was I wanted to be doing.

So, I just rolled with it; I got a great job, lived with my parents for about a year, and was completely debt free only a dozen or so months out of college (many of my friends who are 4 years out of college aren't even half way to paying off their loans).  Since moving back out on my own into the cities, I've bounced around a few jobs, but the fact that I really don't care for what I'm doing keeps pressing into the back of my skull no matter how much money I'm making or how financially secure my future looks.  It kind of sucks.

Don't get me wrong; I'm quite happy and have a great life.  I have a great group of friends, a loving girlfriend, a very good job, a healthy body and have the inherent priveledge of being a tall, attractive, white, physically fit male who is well-spoken, owns a degree, and stays socially active.  In all seriousness the world SHOULD be my oyster.  And yet, I just can't figure out what I want.  I don't care about money, I have no desire to drive a fancy car or take out a mortgage on a nice home, and there are few material things I really "need" (video games, board games, a good snowboard, a sturdy road bike, nice clothes).  So I'm left asking, "If I don't care about money, why don't I just go get a job that I love?"

And so far the only answer I've come up with is, "I have no idea what that would even look like."

...unless >G is hiring ;)

Sorry to bog down the forums with this life story; it's just been on my mind and the irony that I'm typing this while at work is not lost on me.

Mainly I find things for people.  

In all seriousness, a lot of research is finding out what has been done on your topic, and finding out where the unexplored holes are.  So the people planning a project will ask me to find EVERYTHING on a topic.  Then we'll talk and start adding constraints… do you really want everything?  What about press releases and non-peer reviewed literature?  What is the cutoff point- do you want stuff all the way back to the dawn of time, or only the past 10 years?

then we get more refined- there are multiple conversations to find out what they are talking about.  I operate from a position of ignorance- no matter how much I know about the general subject, they tend to have multiple PHD's in a specific arena, and have usually been working on their specific topic area for years.  so they throw a lot of acronyms and terms at me that I have to decipher.    

Then I spend hours and hours trying to find ways to find ONLY what they want, without finding irrelevant stuff.  I usually have to re-write my keywords at least three times because there are always words that seem like they should bring up all sorts of good stuff, but end up adding thousands of citations on another topic entirely.

Some recent examples are the words "Transfer" and "reassign".  I was trying to find out about students transferring from specialized classes to mainstream classrooms- and those words seemed like they would lead to highly relevant articles.

What I didn't take into account is that transfer and reassign are also really important words for students undergoing gender reassignment and articles on LGBT students.  Incredibly good articles…just not what I needed at that moment.  so I had to re-write everything to try and filter them out without losing anything on-topic.  Its incredibly obvious in retrospect, but…

I also do a lot of customer-related stuff-- answering phones, answering questions, and getting walk-in people what they need to do their jobs.

When I worked at the public library, I did a lot of homework help and finding reliable information for people.  not everyone knows how to distinguish between reliable, vetted, factually correct information and opinion (especially when using the internet).  Even websites that seem legit can turn out to have really biased baselines (because they are funded by organizations with a bias).  I learned a lot of the techniques I use for searching and vetting information at library school- though a lot more is just from experience and trial and error.  I also wanted to work in a specialized (Education) library because I hate working weekends, which you have to do in a public library.  And you can't get a job in a specialized library (and sometimes not in a public library in anything other than a volunteer or part-time capacity) without a master's degree.

So thats why I got an MLS.   

I know a man who didn't figure it out until he was 50, he sold his house, took his huge bank account and moved with his wife to Hawaii, where they run a T-Shirt stand.

If he hadn't spent 30 years saving money and trying to figure it out he never would have been able to do it.

You don't have to hurry life, your path will find you, just keep right and be ready.

For some people who find out exactly what they want to do with their life, keeping the day job that they don't enjoy is necessary to allow them to pursue the thing they love as a hobby.

I feel you. Having grown up learning about how Germans treated Jews during WWII, I have a gut, negative reaction to Germany and Germans. Logically, I don't blame today's individuals. I have even managed to rise above that reaction on an individual level to the point of having a friend whose parents were born in Germany as a groomsman, as well as such things as enjoying meeting and knowing Sentinels fans from Germany. (Hi, Julia!) It can, however, take me a little extra mental energy to get over the hump.

And if the occassion ever arises, I hope to be able to introduce you to my friend Lara Campbell. She's fantastic.

This is exactly how I feel. I am 43. I have, at least, gained a fair bit of insight as to what I think is important in life, even if that hasn't lead to any particular work.

Currently, in the absence of any other obvious goals, I am working (albeit slowly) on reducing my desires and expenses with the vague goal that I might be able to retire earlier if I do so.

Not sure how well that's really working, given that I'm going on a cruise next week.

My Wife's Great-Grandmother was Irish, and to her dying day talked about the Black-hearted Presbyterian SOB's that stole their land.

Her Granddaughter went to college, and her first roommate was Presbyterian, and had a Grandmother who hated Catholics.  They ended up good friends.  (It's a much better story when My M-i-L tells it in her horribly fake Irish Accent)

It's a natural response - our brains can only cope with relatively small groups of people so we're very much predisposed towards seperating everyone into "in-group" and "out-group" and hating the out-group.

Segregation and persecution and discrimination and prejudice are the results of this, because it's extremely hard for us to conceive of people who aren't in our in-group as real people. Not that this excuses any such behaviour (we are intelligent enough to be able to rise above our biology) but it at least puts it into some kind of context.

I personally find it difficult not to have contempt for people who are rich because they have rich parents or spouse, or because they had lucky breaks rather than earning by their own hard work. This is because of my own working-class background where even my relatively recent ancestors had to struggle to survive. I'm working on that prejudice, but I still can't help but feel that anyone who has more than enough money to live on should be giving something back to those less fortunate. Why does a billionaire need to buy another business when people are literally starving? It makes me sick. /rant. 

But yeah. People are people. But it's hard to see that. 

<_<

For a moment there I thought we we're going to have a problem.

This.

No one is ever going to pay me to run their table-top RPGs for them.

But at least they pay me to act like a 5-year-old at work. I'm a business analyst - it's my job to constantly ask people "Why?" until we get to what we need to get to.

I'm in a bit of a "Hmm" moment job-wise too. I've been working in the book department of a shop for nearly seven years now - never wanted to work in retail, just ended up there. I've been trying to find a new job for about two years now, since my partner and I got together which means I have someone to move in with whenever I finally leave home...but to do that, I need a new job so I'm actually earning enough to be able to afford bills and stuff - right now I don't earn very much and then spend about half of it on the train fares to get me to work in the first place.

Just over a year ago I had the brainwave of "Hey hang on, the thing I really like doing is writing about stuff...so why don't I look for jobs involving that?". A quick Google search later led me to Elance, a site for freelance writing, and I did a few jobs there. Don't have anything on the go right now but have made a few proposals lately and will probably put in a few more some time soon, since I don't really have any problems finding jobs there that I think I can do. I'm also involved in helping someone (a fellow forum member on a forum I've been a part of for over ten years now, a forum dedicated to an old dungeon-crawling game from 1987) with the development of his upcoming game (Dwelvers) by writing the background fluff on all the monsters and stuff. Not that I'm getting any money for that or anything - I just kind of ended up part of the dev team by accident, but I'm not complaining ;).

If I could manage to get a regular job doing some kind of game-related writing (game guides, articles describing games and generally talking about them, background fluff for RPGs, etc), that would be epic, but so far it's just been freelance stuff which of course isn't really reliable enough, pay-wise for me to ditch my "actual" job and do that instead. Still, maybe if I keep at it then something will come up. I keep meaning to write some more stuff for my own website but other stuff keeps coming up, lol.

You are the Wordweaver...

Basically, you like writing stuff ;)

Whenever I've seen anyone talk about how they got a job writing for a game-related site, they always say it started with their personal game-related blog.  Having a blog they regularly updated with smart, fun content that showed their passion for gaming was the best key to getting a job doing it professionally because it showed they were already experienced at being interesting on a regular basis and attracting readers.

I'm an engineer who works as an Owner's representative on large municipal projects. My degree is in Bioengineering, which had all the anatomy of a pre-med degree and all the statics, fluid dynamics, and heat transfer of a mechanical engineering degree. The two have next to nothing to do with one another, but the pace and difficulty of the degree has served me well.

Did I ever expect that I would wind up doing this? Never. But it is good work when it isn't stupid, or crazy, or crazy stupid.

It admirably paid the bills when my daughter got sick.

Wow. So you are, effectively, a professional research assistant? (if that is simplifying too far, don't be afraid to tell me to stuff my perceptions :P) I could see that being a pretty fulfilling job actually - being able to always touch on so many different subjects every time you get a new project, that could be a lot of fun.

I was talking with my girlfriend about it today, and we wondered what kind of classes filled up enough for a Masters degree? And what would you write your thesis about?

Fred Hicks and the rest of the Evil Hat crew have recently been conducting an open call, if you're comfortable with the FATE system.

I have a lot of friends in the RPG industry. Steve Kenson thud of Mutants and Masterminds fame told me once that the best way to get started making money writing for games was not to make money writing for games.

Another option in the RPG world is to find an author/designer with a small personal project and kill it writing something for that. It's flattering and sure to be noticed. I would cite Brian Clevinger's "Becoming" as an example. It's not big, but he's personally very proud of it. And he knows and works with some big names. A module for something like that is a good way for a well-connected person to learn your name.

I'm lost as to what to do with myself, as well.  I got my English Literature degree about a year ago.  I'm currently brewing coffee as my main source of income.  However, about ten of my 35-45 hours a week are spent working at a comic shop I've been frequenting since I was eight.  It's really satisfying working at a local shop where I've spent so much time developing wonderful interests and strong friendships.  I even get to sell copies of Sentinels (We just got three copies of RC/IR, and I found out one of my favorite regulars is a fan and plays with a former coworker of mine)!  It's really satisfying telling people that I not only have a lot of experience playing the game, but playtesting it as well.  Playtesting may not pay, but it's certainly given me some credibility when I'm encouraging folks to drop $40 on a game!

The point is that I'm happy with my education, happy with at least one of my jobs, and am eager to see where life takes me.

[...]the best way to get started making money writing for games was not to make money writing for games.

I cannot agree enough. Yes. Absolutely.

If you're willing to work hard at something, regardless of the money it makes you, you have a better chance succeeding than you do if you do something for the income. 

It all comes down to passion.

Actually reminds me of a quote from Buddha that I have on my wall:

"Success is not the key to happiness, happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful."

I just happen to be really lucky that what I love to do is IT work, lol.

Jffdougan - I've never heard of Fred Hicks or Evil Hat...I'm guessing the "FATE system" is some kind of RPG system? I have a fair bit of experience at RPGs - a lot of computer-based ones and some tabletop ones as well. Preferably Fantasy-based ones, of course ;). I'll do some more writing for my website some time soon. I also have a bunch of writing I need to do for Dwelvers...hopefully if that game does well, I might attract some kind of attention there.

I'm not generally fussed about making money - it's just kind of a pain that it's sort of necessary to, you know, live and stuff ;). If I could earn some cash without needing to spend half of said cash just in getting to the place where I earn it, that would be a good start, but I don't want a crappy job that I don't enjoy. My current job certainly has various annoying/boring things that happen, but it's not too bad most of the time - I mean, it could certainly be worse. It's just not what I want to be doing forever. I need to churn out a bunch more writing and stick it on the Internet so someone important will magically turn up, see it and go "Hey, I like that - can you do some for me? Here is money" :D.

FATE is an RPG system, and although it's chiefly the house system for Evil Hat (who are best known for being the team behind the Spirit of the Century! and Dresden Files RPGs), there are a large number of people who have started to use it outside of Evil Hat because the system is an open license. Fred's the primary face of the company, and is both an advocate of transparency in operations and a Really Good  Guy in general.

I'm not sure if the open call has closed, but you might want to look it up. If nothing else, FATE Core and FATE Accelerated are both "pay what you want" for PDF versions, and really worth looking at. (FAE is all of 32 pages, IIRC. Not more than 64.)

I cannot agree more. I'm just now finding a paying use for my Master's degree, and it is only part time. But I have been out there, worked terrible jobs, and know I will do whatever it takes to succeed in my field. My field, history, is never a field you make money in, but it is something you have to care about to do. Same with writing. You may succeed some day, but you have to put in the time and energy before that happens. It's frustrating, exhausting, and sometimes feels futile. But you will have a more fulfilling life.

Hmm, I think I might vaguely have heard of Spirit of the Century and the Dresden Files, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. I'd have to actually look them up and find some info on what they're about - what genre, what kind of dice system and character mechanics they use and stuff. I just tried a quick Google for "Evil Hat" and found what looks to be their website so I'll have to have a read of that at some point - I don't have much going on this weekend so that would seem to be a good time :).

I just really like creating stuff - coming up with races of creatures, the world they live in, little fluff details (though not so much for "civilised races", with politics and all that messy stuff - if I'm coming up with a sentient race, they're likely to be more "basic/primitive" ;)) and all the little bits that I like to know for myself even if they don't actually come up in whatever it is I'm writing. There was a forum-based game of DnD a few years back on one of my forums, run by another member, and my character ended up being a member of a race I invented just for the purposes of having a character belonging to a race I wanted (or something). And I've since come up with all these little background details and stuff on the race in general, even though basically none of it came up in the game (basically a dungeon crawl in which no-one really had huge amounts of time to sit down and discuss the tiniest details of each other's backgrounds ;)). I have been able to use the race again, though, when I ran a DnD RPG for the guy who was running that other game and included some members of my made-up race in my made-up country :).

Anyway, I think I'm sidetracking myself into talking about games again - probably should let other people carry on talking about stuff that actually fits into the topic of this thread ;).

Ameena, I've played a lot of FATE and I'm confident that it's your kind of game. It's one of those narrative make-up-cool-stuff type games where you get to be someone who can do awesome stuff, and it uses special FATE dice (also sometimes called FUDGE dice) which are D6s with 2 sides with a +, 2 with a - and two blank.

My favourite bit of the system is the aspects, one of the ways you define your character (you'll have a few of these). Like skills almost, but more individual and less specific. Some examples from games I've been in include, "I used to be a boxer, but now I'm fat", "Exploring the mysteries of the mind", "There's more to life than crystals and s**t", "Fickle Goblin Luck" and "I'm English, and in a foreign country. The chances are, I have tea." You can get bonuses for your aspects if you can explain how they apply to what you're trying to do, and similarly the GM can use them "against" you. The fat ex-boxer dude's player might claim he's going to be good at lifting up a car because he did a lot of strength training or something, and similarly the GM might suggest that he's no longer fit enough to run up three flights of stairs.

Mostly it's about making an exciting story and not really about "winning" like so many RPGs are. It's common (and fun!) to accept negative stuff because it fits with your character, or just to make things more interesting, but you do get to do awesome things as well.

I really haven't explained it well so I apologise, but it's great. Probably my favourite system.

Fate is the system that, I think, has best realized that most people playing RPGs don't want to model the reality in which a genre exists, they want to model the stories told in that genre. It models storytelling.  Mutants and Masterminds did similar with hero points, but Fate opens it up.

Hmm, sounds reminiscent of Nobilis, in which the character gen is largely designed around the fluff, with only four stats to worry about which work like resource points you can spend when you want to do certain things, and which can be restored when you rest or whatever. Everything else is done by more descriptive means, like a bunch of phrases you come up with (at gen) which describe your area of power (basically you're a mortal who's been imbued with a tiny portion of a godlike creature's power, thus making you the "god" of whatever - the god of rain, of time, of socks, of mouldy bread, of hamsters...anything you like), so as long as you can fit something into one of those phrases when trying to use your powers (and have the points to spend on it), you can do it. It's quite good fun :). When I played it, I took Change as my thing, so I could basically shapeshift myself or other people/objects into whatever I wanted :D. Nobilis also uses no dice, and is the only tabletop RPG I've ever come across which does so.

Mutants and Masterminds is another RPG I've heard of but never played. Maybe these are just bigger over in America than they are over here, so that's why they've never come up for me? I've played a bunch of tabletop RPGs including DnD, Hollow Earth Expedition, Nobilis, all four of the Warhammer 40k gams (Dark heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, and Black Crusade), Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (aka WFRP), Doctor Who, Farscape, Scion (sort of), Deadlands (uses the Savage Worlds mechanics), Traveller, Mouse Guard, and probably some others I can't think of right now. I also own the Red Dwarf RPG but haven't got round to playing it yet. I'm currently attempting to run a Hollow Earth game over on RPOL (Roleplay Online, basically a forum composed entirely of RPGs) which is going pretty well atm :).

I may look into FATE but I don't think I'd have anyone to play it with atm (certainly not at tabletop, and playing online I'd need to find someone willing to run a game as I wouldn't want to try running something I've never played before). It does sound interesting, though :).

cough.

i would totally run a play by forum or play by email FATE game. love the system

Ooh...sounds promising. Have you ever used RPOL? Maybe you could check it out ;). If you decide you might actually start running a game, I'll have to see if I can locate a PDF of the rulebook(s)...

I would totally be up for that. FATE is fun...

You guys like FATE? 

Gooooood...

FATE sentinels adaption? Yes Please!

Ooohhhh.  That would be great!

The new version of FATE was released as a pay what you want deal*, so you could buy it for zero English Pounds, it's certainly worth more than that though.

I am thinking that Christopher might be  obliquely  hinting that the last expansion will be named something like the Fate of the Multiverse, but it would be awesome to be proved wrong

*I got my copy from DriveThruRPG.com

Add me to the OMGFATEYES list. I'm totally up for playing.

That would definitely be a blast!  

My own game really isn't built for the varied supers universe that SotM provides....Rook City, though, would be another story!

Just realised that could be read as OMG FAT EYES. And now I can't stop seeing it.

Wait. That wasn't what you meant?

I've downloaded the PDF and am having a read through it - it looks interesting :). Still only reading through char gen atm so haven't got onto how the mechanics work (other than the explanation of what Fate Dice are at the beginning) but it looks like a fairly simple system to get into. I wouldn't mind giving it a go if someone's up for running a game, since I think the whole worldbuilding thing looks pretty interesting, potentially something I might use myself in the future because it seems so flexible and open :).

[quote=Rabit]

 Wait.  That wasn't what you meant? [/quote]

I'm totally adopting this as my own personal "this is so awesome I need to type in all caps" phrase.

Well, I guess this is as good a time as any to explain why I won't have too much time to playtest.

I'm nearing the end of my second year of medical school, which really puts a kaboosh on the amount of free time I have. I really enjoy playing this game, especially as a solitaire, for stress relief.

I honestly get jealous of the amount of free time people have, and their ability to leave their job at their job, but c'est la vie.

I kind of regret going strait from high school to college to med school, without taking some time off. I just get burnt out sometimes. Which is why I was so excited to find a way to focus my attention elsewhere, even for brief amounts of time.

I'm not here to complain, either. I met my girlfriend while at school, and we've been together for a couple of years and are living together quite happily. We even have a few cats. I just wish I had more time to enjoy it, lol.

So, if any of you playtesters are going wonder why I will dissappear from time to time, it's not due to lack of desire; just precious time.

Also, my college major was in liberal arts and sciences, with a major concentration in Pre-Med (Because my school only hands out liberal arts degrees...).

SSJ3Godzilla - I salute you. I hope your time in med school leaves you with a bit of sanity. I have several friends and relatives in health care, and have spent considerable time at the hospital for my major (way back when) and my daughter (for the past three years).

Think that you're investing time now to have free time some time later. I don't know if it's true, but let's pretend it. :)

My first two years of college went really great. I made bunch of great friends, made the Dean's list repeatedly, and in my second year I got to add "Assistant Designer to Sentinels of the Multiverse: Shattered Timelines Expansion" to my resumé. Unfortunately, toward the end of my second year I got paralyzed with depression and left a lot of work unfinished.

My third year should've been really great; it was the first time I'd get my best college friend as a roommate, I was living in a sci-fi/animé-themed hall that showed movies every week, and to combat the depression I had tried reducing my courseload to 2 courses only. But even that wasn't enough. Every time I had to write a paper, I'd spend hours staring at a blank screen before ADD eventually took over and i'd find myself goofing off. Any work not related to my major (game design) I just could not get myself to do.

Worst of all, it was really hard to accept that this all wasn't, in some way, my fault. I knew I was procrastinating, I was completely aware I was wasting time when I was supposed to be working, but doing the work ment facing that fact, and I couldn't stand to be reminded of all the work I had to do. So I continued to goof off in an effort to ignore my problems, because that was easier. Even now, some part of me still wonders if I really did all I could, if there was some strategy I didn't try.

A month or so into the semester, I had no choice but to take a leave of absence from college. The idea was to give me time to recover, but leaving behind all my friends and all the game design work( which I loved) just made me feel worse. I had nothing to do, and no one but family to do things with.

Since then, things have gotten a little better. Slowly. I worked on some personal projects, made visits to my college, and finished up an animation final assignment from a previous year. I'm gonna try getting some work at a game company near me, and I found some high school friends who are still in the area and availiable to hang out with( we're gonna try out D&D 5th edition together!). And of course, there's stuff to do on these forums. But it's not the same. And I'm determined to go back to school, but I have no idea how I'm supposed to recover from an inability to do work. I know I used to be able to function, but it's been so long I can't really remember what that was like. It felt really good, though.

I hope I'm not broken.

I dunno, man.  You helped build the Multiverse.  I think it takes someone pretty solid to do something as cool as that.

I believe we're all broken. Occasionally, we're able to hold ourselves together long enough to do the things we feel are important. Some of us are better at holding the pieces together. Our society pressures us to believe everyone else is fine, that it's just us.

Best wishes to you, Alex, and everyone else with similar struggles...

If you are, I wish you the very best of luck in either getting fixed, or learning to love the state you're in. In the brief time I spent with you at PAX East I got the sense of someone who had a lot going on internally that they were dealing with, but also who had a lot to offer the world.

Everyone's different and we all deal with challenges. Some people's challenges may be much more challenging than others. For what it's worth, I've found that even some of my issues I used to think were intractable have been managed or even squelched entirely. Along the way I've discovered that there were ways I assumed the world worked and ways that I defined myself that were simply wrong – interpretations or definitions I adopted/assigned as a child or under stress (or both) that I took as gospel, but did not need to be so.

For instance, most of my life I believed that I was unlovable. It took a lot of internal work, but I eventually was able to track this down to the fact that the way my parents and siblings showed love was simply different to what I was expecting. Upon having that epiphany, I was able to reframe a tremendous number of other events in my life and vastly change the way I feel about myself. I certainly can't promise that you'll have an analogous epiphany, but I can at least say that such things are possible.

Oh Alex. Being unable to finish or even start stuff, and then getting overwhelmed by all the stuff you have to do and ignoring the fact that the undone stuff's becoming more and more of a problem because it's too much to deal with, and the subsequent snowball effect? I'm right there with you.

I can't recommend cognitive behaviour therapy highly enough, if that's a possibility for you. It's incredibly hard work but if you really commit to it, it'll help. CBT literally saved my life, despite me not believing in it at all at first - I went to my first session passively suicidal (wanting to just not exist any more) and came away with homework and the resolve that I was going to work my butt off to prove to this woman who had no idea of how I felt that her ridiculous idea of challenging my negative thoughts and doing fun things even though I wasn't going to actually enjoy them couldn't possibly affect my faulty brain chemistry. So I threw myself into the work she gave me, with the intention of going to my next session and telling my therapist that it didn't work. I was so mad to have to admit that I did feel better despite myself. And I continued to get better, because then I knew I could do it.  

I'm still prone to depressive episodes but now I have the tools to combat them and I've never been anything like how I was before therapy.

It's easy for me to say but depression isn't your fault, and you can't be expected to function in the same way as a person without mental health problems. Don't beat yourself up for something you didn't choose, but know that you can get yourself out of it given the right guidance. Hang in there. 

Yeah. Some things can be changed, other things you have to adapt to or accept. The ability to recognise which is which is an extremely useful skill.

the Serenity prayer is not just for alcoholics…

I say that not as a religious person… and not really as an alcoholic (although the propensity is definitely there). I just mean that I agree that it is important to find strength and acceptance within you and even more important to have the clarity to see which one applies when. 

You are all very kind. Thank you. (-: