Vengeance Bios--Revealed!

Go see for yourself, if you don't believe me!

Heroes are up, as of this post, with Villains/Environments forthcoming.

So, how did your predictions pan out?

I saw them. They made me uncharacteristically excited.

and still no Freedom Six bios...

Honestly I'm not too impressed.  I like Setback, his "just, y'know" attitude is very fitting, I've been thinking that the missing archetype for the game was of a roguish, underwhelming kind of hero, not quite a mercenary (since those have professional pride to consider) but someone who's pretty much entirely selfish and shallow and generally "of the world" (which implies something very different than "worldly").  The Naturalist will probably be fun to play, although his Nature-vs.-corporations flavor is Anvilicious in the extreme.  But the others really don't do it for me.  "Parse" makes no sense whatsoever to me, seems to have been inserted as a pander to people who want to see a "disabled" hero...and did Miss Information really need to have a nemesis?  I interpreted the brackets symbol as connoting a LACK of nemesis (and if she has a nemesis at all, shouldn't it be the entire Freedom Five?).

Likewise, I have several problems with The Sentinels, starting with their name being more than a little confusing when it's also the name of the game.  The fact that Medico is gay again seems like it's being done as "props" to a fringe group, and completely unnecessary since we already have a homosexual hero; then there's also the fact that we were told there would never be a healer (having a "hero" who is 1/4 a healer is a novel solution to that issue, but I'm deeply puzzled as to how this is going to work).  Plus, personally, the whole "Idealist is mentally a child" thing REALLY squicks me, and finally there seems to be a continuity error with Writhe, as he's described being stopped by the existing three Sentinels, but we saw him on one of Tachyon's cards and her role wasn't mentioned.  So if he's a hero now, why is Tachyon fighting him?  (For that matter, why is Expatriette shooting Setback on Shock Rounds?)  Ultimately, I'm baffled by the idea we're getting EIGHT new heroes instead of five, when we already have a single Villain deck that represents five actual Villains; it seems like this is going to get cluttered (and just imagine Sentinels and four other heroes vs. the Ennead! how would you ever find enough table space?).

Alone of the new characters, I have no real opinion on KNYFE, past that I lack the patience to type her name with periods.  "Short-range energy bursts" seems like kind of a lame power, but a hero with a connection to The Block seems like a vaguely neat concept (although it makes me think some of the Agents should have had a nemesis icon for her).  Past that, my assessment of her is pretty much "eh".  So, liking Mainstay, a little fond of Naturalist, neutral on KNYFE, a little down on the Sentinels, and very unimpressed with Parse.  (All this is of course a very ignorant prejudgment which will have nothing to do with how they play.)

Tachyon, gay hero from the first. They're not pandering, dude.

I'm very curious what the big catastrophic event affecting all time lines is. If it was something that happened during Shattered Timelines, it probably would've been mentioned directly in the bios, and so I'm guessing this big event will be in an upcoming expansion.

Dr. Medico was the character Adam made as a joke in one of the other posts, and so I guess they decided to make him part of the team. If he's in a group of other heroes sharing the same deck, then you still don't have a dedicated healing character, just one deck with possible healing capabilities.

I'm perfectly fine with Medico being gay. I don't really see it as pandering and I don't think we should have the mentality of that because we already have one gay hero, having another one is just pandering. That's still only two confirmed homosexual characters out of like 24 characters, if you include the four sentinels as seperate characters.

I can agree that Parse's bio seems a little weird since her powers are directly linked to Cosmic Omnitron and I wonder how that would've been explained if the IR kickstarter hadn't raised enough money to have that promo as a strech reward.

Ms. Information was a fan made villain that won second place in the create a villain contest, and so I can agree that the nemesis decision seems a little forced, but in Sentinels every villain and hero have a nemesis. It's just part of the underlying mechanics in the game, and Ms. Information has enough special stuff, that I don't think she needs to have a lack of nemesis on top of that. I can agree that it would make more sense for her nemeses to be the Freedom Five, but we already have Iron Legacy with the Freedom six in the same expansion, and that would be kind of repetetive.

That's exactly what I mean; they've done that one already.  If they're going to make a bunch of heroes that just happen to randomly be X, in order to try and please those members of their fanbase who also happen to be X, they've already covered "gay", and there are tons of other things-you-can-be left for them to use instead.

Why is it somehow "pandering" to have multiple heroes from a group of people that comprise 8-15% of the populace worldwide?

1 out of 24 would have been more fitting, given that the homosexual population is estimated at 0.3% of the total number of people.

The highest percentage I've ever heard is 10%, and that was discredited in the same article which gave me 0.3%…it said 10% is a common misconception based on data from a flawed study.

Perhaps they would have simply said there was a transmission of data from the stars (this is a plot device in at least two major sci-fi settings, probably others that I haven't heard of, so it's fitting enough), and not tried to tie it to any other characters.  Maybe she would have just been a random office worker at NASA who happened to receive the signal, and thus she'd have been tied to MissInfo by virtue of professional rivalry because they both went to secretary school together or something.

I can agree that it would make more sense for her nemeses to be the Freedom Five, but we already have Iron Legacy with the Freedom six in the same expansion, and that would be kind of repetetive.

Well, "around" the same expansion; she wasn't actually included IN it.  But presumably the Vengeful Five will count as one villain with all five nemesis symbols of the Freedom V among them, so I guess that's one reason for it not to be done.  (Since I've never peeked at the back of Miss Info's card, but have looked through her deck, I was assuming that the costumed form of her seen on What Doesn't Kill You was after she gives herself superpowers and openly attacks the FV, and so I was anticipating that she might have their nemesis icons on only that side, with the "{ }" symbol signifying absence, because she's currently "innocent" and thus nobody has any reason to target her specifically.  (In general, the idea of a character having different Nemeses depending on side is too neat a concept for them not to ever do, IMO.  We'll see whether great minds think alike.)

Oh god, I just got it.  The "{ }" symbol, though first seen on Miss Info, actually stands for Parse (they're always the hero's symbol, matched to the Villain who hates them).  And Parse got her powers from a transmission FROM SPACE.  That is really, really terrible. 

This is kind of like saying that because Mr. Fixer is black, having any black heroes after Rook City is pandering. Also, why do we need more women characters? We had like three in the core set, that demographic's already been covered.

Haven't they had too many super heroes? They should totally focus their efforts in making other things, like the Dolphin in a can. Perhaps a hot dog vendor will add a nice change of pace?

Yeah, let's have one each of a few "minorities" - a woman*, a black person, a gay person, a person with disabilities. Even better, let's combine them into a single character and have done with it. Then we can concentrate on more white male American non-disabled characters! Yay!

Gay people are dramatically under-represented in the world of game characters, so I have absolutely no problem with another gay character - quite the contrary.

*I know women aren't technically minorities. but in the comic world they are.

He's right. No more gay heros. We also probably have too many black heros as well. Don't want too many of those either am I right? 

All new heroes must be Wookies.  

Medico has broken the game.  I just played a game where all the heroes refused to take damage because they knew Medico was now in the multiverse.

Apparently he preemptively heals heroes as they take damage, and that's without his deck even being there.

I honestly thought the bios were a joke at first, Setback is hilarious, and I absolutely love the idea of a hero who has no idea what is happening because his luck changes drastically by the second.  I really hope this is well represented in his deck.

The Archer is OP, she is an archer and she has glasses, she's super smart and sees the connections to everything.  Really, Absolute Zero is supposed to compete with that?  At least Ryan has the heat death of the Universe to look forward to, because until then he's just going to wish he could make a bowstring that could work while frozen solid.

"Hi, my name is Ryan and I'm frozen.  In my spare time I like to be cranky and freeze everything just by being near it."  Next expansion I expect an evil Psychiatrist that preys upon the other heroes inferiority complexes, lots of self-damage in that deck.

If the Naturalist was somehow summoned by the Sentinels, with rings or something, then this expansion would be amazing.  They might have to let Setback join just to balance out the group though.

Also, no fifth Warden, but we do get the Dark Watch, whatever they do, and three new unaligned heroes. . . hmm.

I'm guessing K.N.Y.F.E.'s nemesis will be a time travelling OSHA agent, and Naturalist's nemesis will be the Scholar's robe, or maybe Tyler Vance's socks, assuming he wears socks in that suit.

Evil hot dog vendor would be a great deck.

He could be immortal, and just keeps seducing the people of Earth with his enticing smelling near-meat food product, knowing that he is surely dooming them and their descendants to indigestion and eventually extinction.

He could be a flower, I don't think we have any flowers yet.

Ha… his secret weapon will be the bacon-wrapped hot dog they sell outside of clubs in L.A. first it would deal psychic damage for the disappointment you feel because they never taste quite as good as they smell… then toxic damage to all your teammates… and finally fire damage and you are automatically incapacitated.

The Flower's nemesis would be the hero that's descended from rabbits.

Evil has already been done, can't have another evil character.

Immortal character also exist, see Haka, Anubis, and Ra (kind of).

GloomWeaver may not entice with near-meat, but he certainly has a Cult he probably enticed with powers.

How about a hero that continually complains about stuff all the time?

Oh wait, we have heroes already. No more heroes!

There are too many heroes with heads, we need heroes without them

Legacy was wearing a T-shirt already, now Setback has one as well, how many t-shirt wearing heroes do we need?

I'm going to put this out there briefly and then try to get the thread relatively back on topic, as this is a board about superhero card games, not LGBT representation.  There are plenty of LGBT people in the world; I am proud to be one.  There are plenty of black, Hispanic, Asian, what-have-you people as well.  The comic book industry (and the archetypes that they ape) often strays way too far towards catering to the tastes of straight, white, middle-class men.  Any inclusion of characters that are not straight, white men is all right by me, because it's a step towards realism.  It's not pandering to have strong empowered heroes.  It's not pandering to include developed, nuanced characters who deal with their ethnicity or their sexuality in a mature manner.   And, above all else, >G have done a pretty solid job in diversifying a notoriously non-diverse segment of entertainment.

Now, back to real discussion!

I said:

• Some type of Hawkeye/Green Arrow archer character.

Well, Parse definitely fits that mold.  I like the idea of a data analyst/hacker opposing the "bureaucratic" villain of Miss Information, but the Archery theme seems a little light on her.   Obviously I haven't seen the cards--I'm not a playtester--but when I picture Green Arrow or Hawkeye, I picture lots of gimmick arrows:  line arrows, explosive-tipped arrows, sonic stunner arrows, etc.  I'm kind of ambivalent about Parse's costume, though I do like the archery gauntlets, which look like she stole them from Hawkeye, as drawn by David Aja.

I said:

• Some type of shapeshifty Beast Boy-type character.

Hit the nail on the head with this one!  The Naturalist certainly fits this mold perfectly.  I'm not sure what to think of his links to Akash'Bhuta and Argent Adept, but it feels like his background apes that of Black Panther or Moon Knight, which I like.  I'm interested to see what each of his forms will bring.  I'd assume that Rhinoceros and Crocodile are both forms, as they're mentioned directly in the text, though I'd like to see what else is in that deck.  Perhaps a constrictor-snake form to immobilize a villain target and keep them from dealing damage?  A bird-type card could scout the Environment or Villain decks, perhaps?  Lots of options here.

I said: 

• "Twitchy", with some kind of probability control (he'll have the dice icon as his)

Got this one, too!  While I didn't bank on Setback having so many links to Baron Blade (apparently trying to create his own Legacy-type character), a bad-luck controlling character seems pretty awesome.  My wife once played an ICONS game as a bad-luck controller named Murphy...it was a blast!

• A size-changing female Thorathian, a la Giganta.

Wow, was I ever off.  I didn't see this one coming at all, though having an actual FILTER agent (even a former one) as a hero makes sense.  KNYFE feels a lot like a mash-up of Black Widow and Psylocke to me, both of which are characters that don't get their due in the comics world.  Plus, I love the idea of a female character being a strong, melee bruiser:  it's just not something that you see often enough.  I wonder if the >G gang has been reading Deconnick's run on Captain Marvel, mayhaps?

I said:

Ooh, I forgot about biker guy!

I'm betting he'll be Mainstay--the enigmatic 5th from my list above.  I'd put money on him being a Lobo/Ghost Rider type dude--lots of chains, hooks, and knives, with some type of motorcycle or other vehicle, which could be represented like Turret Mode or Pushing the Limits.  I'd also bank on him having a lot of one-shots, instead of ongoings.  

So, I sort of got this one.  Mainstay sure is one of The Sentinels, but I expected him to be a bigger loner, much less a part of a whole team.  It's a neat twist, to me, to include him as a big, friendly sort of guy.  I'm not sure how the 4-in-1 deck is going to pan out, especially as compared to Baron Blade's Vengeance Party Smackdown.  I did have to laugh to see Dr. Medico make an appearance, and I see some neat synergy between Mainstay, Medico, and The Idealist (tank, healer, blaster).  My question is:  where does Writhe fit in?  Maybe he offers more of a control element?  I'm not sure how you'd implement intangibility into game play.

So, tally me up for 3.5 out of 5?  I only have a handful of ideas on the Villain/Environment decks, so here goes those:

• We'll finally see the Evil Chinese Mystic-guy who Mister Fixer fights on some of his cards.  He'll be a Mandarin homage, I think, perhaps with a bunch of ninjas.  (Oooh, ninjas!  We haven't fought ninjas yet!  Gotta fight some ninjas!)
• I see Baron Blade's Vengeance Party Bus playing much like The Ennead--5 character cards in play simultaneously, all of whom get to do wicked things on the Villain turn.  I don't see them being separable.
• We haven't seen a cyborg-type character yet, aside from Golem Unity.  Some kind of cybernetic person, maybe?
• I think we might actually get to fight in Baron Blade's Vengeance Party Garage, a la the Legion of Doom's big skull-head fortress.
• A temple or the like might be cool to fight Evil Chinese Mystic-guy in...or maybe a pagoda!
• How about on a ship or an aircraft carrier?  Or, perhaps, an homage to the Shield Helicarrier?

Right, so the new expansion, in order to add something truly unique will come in a bag and it won't have heroes and instead of cards it will contain glass, and it will be broken.

So I read all the bios, and they sound like fun! Excuse me while I dance in glee over there being a female Australian hero who is not stupidly themed.

(Also, if we end up using her in the radio plays, I'm going to audition for her)

I'm wondering about the playstyle of the Sentinels.

Are they going to have four character cards and work like the Ennead?  Or maybe just one character card representing all four of them.  I'd like the first option, except that higest/lowest hero damage would be really screwed up with four targets counting as one hero deck. (I say this assuming you can't just incap one and end the deck play)  If they are one card, how do you represent them all?  I'm very curious, and quite excited to see how they pull it off.

I'm also anxious to see the Villains and environment decks.  Need more environment decks.

Ok, so now that redacted tags can go away, The Sentinels and Setback are in my top-4-in-no-particular-order heroes, alongside Argent Adept and Nightmist. They are just SO MUCH FUN to play!

Also, at Pydro's request:

"Me saying something profound about how great it is."

-- Pydro, 2013

Because… Boomerangs. 

Setback's bio is awesome; I love the concept of a hero who has NO IDEA what is going on :D

I said:

Twitchy

Well, yes, but then that one was kind of obvious.

Mainstay (who will vaguely fit the 'shapeshifter' role by having different forms to switch between, eg. the biker in Iron Legacy's deck and the dude on Silver Shadow) (also La Cap's nemesis)

Well, we got Mainstay, and he was La Capitan's nemesis, but apart from that I was completely wrong about him... Though we do have a shapeshifter.

Druid-type woman (possibly plant or animal control, and also possibly with a lot of start-of-turn possibilities)

Eh, not really.

Some kind of damage powerhouse (possibly an archer, and probably female)

And so with three of my predictions I manage to describe all five characters, with the two (solo) females being the damage powehouse and thee archer :P

Aaand... let's say the massive Thorathian from the Dreamer's deck.

Well that was a long shot anyway.

So 2.5 out of 5, maybe? Either way, I am now massively looking forward to Vengeance...

The Naturalist is pretty much my favorite hero to play right now, though I really like all of the heroes from this set.  It's awesome to have 2.5 times the number of hero options that we typically get from an expansion

How does The Naturalist compare to The Scholar? 

It seems like they'd have very similar mechanics, shifting forms and the like...

The mechanics work differently and I'd say the Naturalist is more versatile in the roles he can fill than the Scholar (though I love The Scholar too), but there are some similarities

Can we get Complexity ratings on these guys, or is that leaking too much?

Wow... I can't believe I didn't see the link between K.N.Y.F.E and F.I.L.T.E.R.

I agree on most of the new heroes being fun to play - I've not tried Setback yet, though. And I've only played as the Sentinels once. But I found Parse, the Naturalist, and KNYFE all fun for various reasons. I presume we're not allowed to talk about card mechanics until said cards are actually released, though ;). I'm looking forward to seeing what the art is for all the cards - right now they just have a basic line image of the hero on the appropriate character card and all the rest are blank.

Correct - including any wording on cards (such as card names). Greatly appreciate it!

And for those who don't know, as TheJayMann's post indicates, the bio info is new to the playtesters, also. We don't get anything more than the wording of the cards and a pencil sketch of the hero on their character card. So yeah, looking forward to making time to read these!

I'm the only one really puzzled about the lack of exposure this preview has been given? An update on the News section would be cool and also a BGG thread which should drive traffic.

Probably better to wait to drive the traffic until after Vengeance is up for pre-order.

Can I ask about balance and roles of heroes from playtesters?

How would they compare to current heroes?  Any on the level of Bunker or Mr. Fixer or are we getting some real powerful heroes here?

what? Basically creating hype is not wanted? hah, ok. Back to my cave.

That's really kind of based on the opinion of the player, isn't it? As I find every hero equal in power, only against certain villains can a hero outshine others.

Yeah, I was thinking about that too. Perhaps they will announce it once the Villains and Environments are up too

I have always been partial to healer characters (med student here!), so when Adam was joking around about Medico, I was very, very much amused. And now that it is revealed that he is a real character.... MY LEVEL OF EXCITEMENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH. CAN'T WAIT OH MY GOOOOOOD.

*Ahem*

Of the four, I think the Sentinels deck will be the most interesting, or at the very least the deck I most look forward to trying out. I like the bios in general (I don't care what they call him, Twitchy will always be Twitchy to me), but I was a bit miffed at the whole Asperger's syndrome thing of Parse. Seems a little bit unnecessary? And the archery thing just seems like a hat on a hat for me. For all the coolness of a bow and arrow, wouldnt it be more, ah, efficient to simply use a gun or something? Especially for one as supposedly logical as Parse. Plus, (if I remember right) Asperger normally presents with clumsiness, manual dexterity problems, impaired hand-eye coordination, etc, all of which would precude her from firing a bow, rendering her ability to process information at super-fast speeds, er, moot. Ah well, I guess it will all boil down to her deck!

Yeah, I think something like that is going on – GTG is being strategic about when and how they release information.

I mostly agree with you.  I would argue that it is teams that balance out heroes as much as villains.  For example, in what situations does Bunker outshine Wraith?  Bunker beats wraith when he has really effective support and gets a really good build out.  He has more room to benefit from support than Wraith, who really only needs 4 cards that she has a very good chance of getting to be an extremely effective hero.  There are teams where Bunker can be a better option than Wraith, from a pure best chance to win sense, but those teams are rare.

Well, supposedly the pre-order is going up "very soon", like probably today. Might as well wait a few hours and have all the traffic coming with something to channel the hype into. 

We get told about it early and hyped because who on these forums isn't already planning on pre-ordering it?

For complexity ratings, I think it will shake out that KNYFE will be around a 1 (first 1 since the base set), Setback will be a 3 and the rest will fall into that ambiguous 2 range. 

The Sentinels will become a fast fan favorite I think. Such a cool deck with a much different power curve than what players have been used to.

I am really looking forward to seeing the guides and threads that will undoubtebly be created when people get their hands on Setback. I am sure there will be plenty to talk about.

The way the Naturalist's forms are implimented really lend a strong versatility element to him. He will plug into any team lineup and excel making him a very satisfying hero to play.

Parse, while admitidly seeming a little "meh" at the outset, has really carved out a great little niche for herself with her deck. Plus who doesn't like an autistic archer? The alliteration alone should serve a smile to even the most hardened of hearts.

And KNYFE? No one will hate blowing stuff up a lot. It is one of the simplest pleasures in all of gaming.

The new hero I love is The Sentinels. SO MUCH FUN. I also think I will like Setback quite a bit, though the mechanics weren't well-tuned at first and I haven't played his later versions, so I'm a bit cautious on him.

None of the others has particularly grabbed me, though I like them all just fine.

Weirdly, I just played KNYFE for the  first time this week, despite having access to her deck for months. This is because I was very busy when the decks were first released and then there was so much feedback from other players that I kind of got a feel for even the things I hadn't directly played. Or at least I thought so until I was looking at JayMann's copy of KNYFE on Tue and realized I had no idea what she did.

I think I get more excited by the environments than the average player -- some of my favorite decks are The Tomb of Anubis, Time Cataclysm, and Insula Primalis -- so maybe take this with a grain of salt, but I really, really like the environments in Vengeance, too.

I'm afraid to say anything about the villains because I can't remember what has or hasn't been officially released about them, but suffice to say, hopefully, that there's plenty to like/hate there, too.

I still have no idea why Tachyon is shown kicking Writhe in her deck. It has been on my mind since I first saw the playtest files.

An Australian autistic archer 

An Australian austistic adventurer, archer, and analyst aware of advanced AI.

An Australian autistic archer-adventurer-analyst?

I think having one hero play like the Ennead is fine.  I think GTG probably doesn't want a 2nd villain to play like Ennead, assuming one of the villains is the Fearful 5 (or whatever name they are going to use).

Hopefully the play style matches up with the theme.  Like when playing Tachyon, the deck used so fast that it fits the speed theme.  There's are millions of ideas out there, but it's hard to think what else can be done without the play style feeling old/reused.

Given her ability to see patterns and such, I thought it made a lot of sense.

There are impressive things you can do with a bow and arrow that you just can't do with a gun. A bullet hits something with a significant amount of force, a force over which you have no control and at an angle that must be straight from the bullet (contrary to comic concepts of "curving a shot" ). But an arrow allows for far more control, getting over barriers, using various heads to different effect, etc.

Besides, we have enough heroes with guns!

And arrows are cool.

Not really. It can be a symptom, but many people manifest differently. My nephew has full-on autism, and most autistics do not like contact with people - they just can't stand it. My nephew is completely the opposite: he loves hugs, holding hands, jumping on his uncle's stomach (ugh - he's a heavy kid, takes after his dad). These diseases don't manifest in a "standard" way (unfortunately ).

And there I completely agree with you!

I imagine there are other stories they didn't share, things that happened between Writhe obtaining his powers and getting busted by the Sentinels during the bank robbery.

Yeah, they've publicly said as much in the past.

They've talked publicly about the "Vengeful Five".

Well, finally we can talk about it!

When I heard that Medico was finally in the game, I was so happy.

Wait a second, look at Setback's group affiliation--Dark Watch. A new (unheard of) hero team, perhaps? Interesting. I'd like to hear more about Dark Watch.

Now if only we had the last member of the Prime Wardens...

Ah, new bios. That feels good.

My thoughts. First, as much as people are excited about an Australian hero, I am equally excited that KNYFE is Scottish. I will be unable to play her without affecting a thick brogue, as is my birthright.

Secondly, I was really grabbed by the info on Idealist. Without revealing anything of mechanics, the metaplot will probably somewhat change how I play The Sentinels.

That The Sentinels are largely unconnected to things except for repeated chance encounters with La Capitán is also pretty neat to me. Seems like about everyone has some sort of ties to the F5 or another larger piece of the world. These are just some people that took some initiative on their own to make the world better.

Between all that and the fact that Medico is gay, I think their story is my favourite. I've loved having Tachyon to represent my people, but I've secretly wanted a gay man, too. What?

The Naturalist? That's a really neat Journey story told straight down through the myths of many cultures.

Oh, Setback. Make him slightly crazier, and I think we have Deadpool on our hands. If he's not breaking the fourth wall on at least one of his cards' flavour text, I'll be very surprised.

Parse is the only one that I'm slightly lukewarm on. I've thought that since I first saw her playtesting cards, and that hasn't changed. Don't get me wrong, she's a really neat one to play. But I still find the story to be a little... odd.

Gah! Can't wait!

So I have not even read the bios yet, but I find this an interesting fact about Parse (after having many times played her deck, but never knowing anything about her.  I will say that I have Aspergers, and I have never had any of those issues you list.  In fact, in some of those, I'd say, if not average, I'm maybe slightly above average.

The Dark Watch is made up of [REDACTED]. I only say that because I like knowing things other people don't. And I'm pretty sure this is one I have on most people.

Hm. Actually, I think it is a diagnostic marker, rather than just a symptom. That is, it is so prevalent among those with Asperger that it is a diagnostic criteria rather than an incidental finding, so if Parse doesn't exhibit it, it may be a case of misdiagnosis. Of course, by prevalent I mean about 80-90%, so it IS still possible. In this case, there is a common/'standard' neural pathway that is hit in the syndrome, making their proprioception, er, skewey. More likely, Parse has some degree of severity of autism, rather than out-and-out Asperger.

Err, normally, I would just leave things like this be (I mean, can you say off topic?), but I really don't like it when people take a disease entity and lump them all together as the same thing (i.e. Asperger is just fancy autism.) Of course, I fully expect that this was not intended, but still. No harm in correcting? D:

I agree with the rest of your points, btw :))

Edit: I would like to point out this study Journal of Developmental & Behavioral Pediatrics Specifically: "It has been estimated that 80% of subjects with AS display "motor dyspraxia," or clumsiness"

Edit2: TheJayMann, Thank you for sharing! I…am now thoroughly confused. Oh well. Must study harder!

That redacted sounds too singular and not plural enough to be a team. Maybe I read too much into that. The Dark Watch is very interesting though. Probably closely connected to whatever is merging the multiverses together. 

You may feel free to decide by yourself whether I redacted a word or a collection of words.

Okay, so I'm pretty excited by the new heroes. I like the look/sound of every single one of them from what we've seen so far.

KNYFE: Yay! Our first British hero! The energy blades look cool and as others have said it's nice to have a (presumably) hitting-things-hard female character. And it's interesting that she's involved in all that timey-wimey stuff too. I'm already practicing my Scottish accent.

Sentinels: I do wish they'd been given a different name, due to the game name, but I like the way the group fits together and the idea of a team is great. I'm amused that the Medico joke is now a thing and Mainstay seems fun. The Idealist - superhero kid, interesting! And Writhe, again I'd have preferred a different name since it's so close to Wraith, but I'm looking forward to seeing how his shadowiness will work.

Naturalist: Possibly my favourite concept so far. I think (and I may be wrong) that he's the first African hero. The whole shape-shifting thing is a great idea and the tension between him and AA make me wonder if that'll be reflected in the gameplay somehow. I can't see them playing well together.

Setback: I'm not normally keen on extra luck in games, but if there's an element of luck to the way he plays then I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how he works. I think he has the clearest "voice" so far and I love that his bio gives us so much information on what his personality's like.

Parse: Yay, archery is awesome! Also black, Australian, female, with a condition that is generally considered a disability. I totally approve of the inclusion of groups that are traditionally under-represented in the genre. It'd be easy for Kim to be another white American, and we have a lot of those already. Interestingly enough, if she's represented as an Australian Aborigine (even better) then that's another little link to her powers - Australian Aborigines have significantly better spacial memory compared with their white cohorts (probably due to aspects of upbringing, since it's an important skill for a group that traditionally had to be skilled at wayfaring in a hostile, somewhat barren desert environment). And I like the Omnitron connection too.

In general, I like how so many things are starting to get tied into other things, like Setback and Blade, Naturalist and Akash and Argent, KNYFE and FILTER, Parse and Cosmitron. We have some answers, and a lot more questions, and I'm even more excited for what's coming next! Thanks >G, you guys rule! :)

Well, Parse may be a bit clusmy, possibly not even the best with a bow. Silverleaf pointed out that she is wearing an archery glove (forgot the name of it), which is worm be folks to protect their arm from the bow string hitting it. Or it could be that she just wants to wear it, who really knows?

Further on that subject, as I'm thinking about it, my handwriting is horrible (not just illedgible, but I tend to be unable to write the same letter twice the same way), and my (drawing) art skills are nonexistant.  In those ways, my dexterity and hand-eye coordination could be said to be impared.  However, other things, such as my ability to type well, fairly precise "assembly" skill, and very good origami skills, would say otherwise.

...Also, I just realized. The Sentinels basically started out as 2 friends wanting to do good, getting together to beat La Capitan. They are eventually joined by two other people for a total of four more or less random people coming together to save the Multiverse.

We buy the game, Sentinels of the Multiverse, so that we can get together with a bunch of (random?) friends, to beat a villain. Four has also been stated as the ideal number for the game to be played (not too easy, not too hard.). We also get together to save the world.

Guys.

We are the Sentinels.

This. All of this.

I don't know why but the "is a stupid name" back and forth makes me giggle.

Trust me, it hurts after you've done that 10 times or so. Last time I shot (a while ago) I developed a large bruise the whole way down the inside of my forearm, and I don't bruise easily, and that was just with a relatively puny 35lb shortbow.

As for manual dexterity, it comes in lots of different forms and skills can obviously be trained. I'd guess Parse is good at archery more because of her ability to calculate the trajectory, distance, angles, draw distance on the arrow, speed or target, etc., than her natural physical ability. She only has to be competant in the physical sighting, drawing and releasing which just really requires conditioning and practice.

I've been shooting arrows at targets for about 10 years now, and the glove/wrist guard are essential.  even with calusses to protect your fingers, its really nice to have something between them and a bowstring.  Especially with heavier short/recurve bows (which is what Parse is using, rather than a composite).  the wrist guard is more useful when you are learning (I used to have bruises and welts from the string hitting my arm, even with the guard), but it also serves the prosaic function of keeping your sleeves/coat/etc out of the way.  Also it looks cool.

Or hey, maybe she has an touchscreen computer on the outside!

I wasn't really connecting very well with the new characters when I first looked at their bios last night... but upon further examination this morning I am liking them more and more. 

As far as Parse and her archery skill/Asperger's dichotomy, I think it would be cool if they actually did make her be super clumsy and uncoordinated EXCEPT when she picks up her bow. Like all the calculations and focus required of her to figure out exactly how to shoot an arrow tie up her mind so much that her body is free to follow almost as a reaction and as a result it's super graceful and coordinated... and as soon as the arrow is let loose, she trips over herself all over again. 

Im really liking The Naturalist too (whom I will forever call Manimal), and K.N.Y.F.E. looks cool too... and the K will never be silent in play (that period after makes it too pronounced in appearance).  can't wait to try these decks out!! Damn you February. So far away. 

So when Setback picks up a bow, he turns into Parse?

You are all absolutely The Sentinels. Keep up the good work, heroes.

The only thing missing is one character on The Sentinels who is a mind controller. One hero would be able to control the heroes and the villain, bringing it all into perfect sync. I like recursion, also.

I just realized, I've been playing Setback all wrong. I've been playing him too smart! I should just play blind the entire time, no matter what. Apparently, everything just happens accidentally around him. I knew he was unlucky, but JEGUS!

So is it the Sentinels on 'The Whole Gang'? It doesn't look like them, but it does appear in their comic...

Who knows the extent of Idealist's psycic powers. There are obvious parralells to Visionary (child psycic prodigys seem to be a thing)

No, it's not the Sentinels. It's definitely a villain group. They are vaguely connected to the Sentinels, though.

You know? It kinda makes me want to try this, just to see what happens. Play a card randomly from your hand. Roll a die to make decisions based on the card played.

No. That Gang is a separate group. I am sure we will run into them here soon

Is this the place for wild speculation?

Setback is the time crazed prisoner! He's the only character we've got with those expressive eyes (it's weak but that's all I got).

Also WOOT! I called that Setback would have a punny real name, Mr Riske for the win!

Disappointed that Wraithe has a superhero name, I would love to hear his heroic battle cry of "Fear the darkness of... Eugene Wilkenson"

I love that Mainstay and Medico defeated La Capitan before they had met her, and then defeated her again for the first time

Also Redheads, I love redheads.

Yeah, I've not really got any coherent thoughts.

Reminds me of Time Splitters: Future Perfect.

And only now as I'm typing it in do I realize the English grammar pun (whether intentional or not).

Analytical powers and bad luck generation  - two favorite powers of mine in super hero rpgs :) Now I only need a gravity controlling lady scientist with a quarterstaff and 'I'll be able to play a full "my favorite powers" team led by Absolute Zero !

And, at last, we encounter the Sentinels - and they are, like the Fantastic 4, a family of sort... COOOOL.

Eager to play all these new heroes.

Manimal! That's the first thing I thought of!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manimal

I am now assuming, jagarciao, that you are an old fogey, like me.

This is painful, but I can see where Envisioner is coming from.  This game seems to love to represent underrepresented minorities, which is great, but which can tip from being "so what if he's XYZ" to "he's this expansion's lefthanded Baptist hero with chronic gout" if you're not careful.  Pushing boundaries is fun, but you have to be careful that pushing boundaries doesn't become the main point.

On another topic, I LURV the idea of a group of heroes in a single deck, but I don't feel the Sentinels love from their description.  They seem to be four random people with random powers who have banded together for no real reason.  They're not a family (Fantastic Four), they don't share an origin story (X-Men), they haven't even joined forces in order to enhance their existing crimefighting abilities (Justice League).  They're just two buddies who found this little girl, and a guy who stumbled out of a jail cell and said "hey guys, mind if I join your supergroup?"  Seems like these guys could use some tightening up in the editorial department.

I'm looking forward to trying out the others.  A be-freckled Scottish energy-Wolverine sounds good, as does an ex-polluter turned shapeshifting nature-protector.  The Aspergers part of Parse seems unnecessary to me (couldn't she have just been really smart?), but I like the idea of a brainy, tactical archer, so I'm on board.  Don't really see the point of a doofus hero who never seems to know what he's doing of why he's even there, but I'm willing to be convinced.

I'm mostly just happy to have some new information after a long, long drought. :)

See, this is actually why I love The Sentinels. It feels like something a player could connect with. Kind of, "Hmm. If I manifested super powers tomorrow, what would I do? I don't have connections to any shadowy government agencies. I'm not filthy rich. I don't have a legacy of fame and the contacts that come with it. Hell, I'd probably just get together with my buddies and beat down bad people."

We have no idea why the Sentinels started manifesting these powers, could be all connected still (and I wouldn't put it past >Games to do this, I'm not underestimating their creativity again).

Also, Setback is a complete badass. He consistently pulls games from the brink of defeat whenever I play with him, usually in hilariously awesome ways. Like punching out Proletariat in one hit.

I'm probably younger than most people who remember that show… but having grown up in a third world country, we got our shows kind of late. 

I did love the show as a kid though… even though I couldn't understand why he would never turn into anything other than a panther or an eagle!!

Setback helped you escape from that brink. He probably also contributed to getting to that point as well hahaha. He is gonna be a fun one.

I hope they make an update on the Kickstarter page to direct people to the bios. I know I'm the only one of my friends that follows the forums but have friends who backed the game and are waiting for info.  I think an update would be better then a comment on the comments page though so it'll get to those who've supported and been waiting. Just don't send them to the store cause some people feel like the kickstarter was the preorder and won't much care for seeing preorder people get the game for cheaper with the same promos at practically the same time. Not everyone understands what Kickstarting is all about.

That said. Love the continued variety added to this fabulous world and am very interested in the Dark Watch. Seems like our new shapeshifting friend would have been a great fit for Prime Wardens in the fight against Akish Bhuta but probably doesn't like Argent Adept all that much.

won't much care for seeing preorder people get the game for cheaper with the same promos at practically the same time.

ouch.  it's true though.

I thought it was just representing the world and the diversity that is in it. These are heroes from across the Earth, so kinda makes sense to me that they wouldn't be primarily white males, which is the dominant hero in most comic lines.

@logan_mann, @Spiff

I'm definitely going to post a Kickstarter update about this!

However, the price of the pre-order (for people who pre-order) will come out about the same as the price of Kickstarting Vengeance; on KS, it was $40 flat, which included shipping. From the store, it is $29.95 + shipping, which within the US averages out to around $10 per package.

Also, preorders won't ship until all of the Kickstarter orders have shipped, and do not come with art prints (fwiw) :)

Paul, the online store mentions that Vengeance will not ship till March as per the post on the GSF kickstarter. With Vengeance obviously being much closer to completion than GSF is, what is the possibility that Vengeance will be brought to retail early? Is the plan to purposfully postpone the Vengeance release to coincide with GSF and that Kickstarter?

@Foote,

Given shipping and printing schedules, and the fact that the Vengeance print run will be bigger and more complicated than the GSF print run, the games are very likely to arrive around the same time even with Vengeance being sent off a month or so earlier. But we shall see!

To me, she seems to fit Green Arrow much better; Hawkeye is basically just a career soldier, but Green Arrow is a social progressive waging a one-man war against the slave-state, and Parse might well develop similar inclinations as a result of how much info she has access to (hearing the 911 calls in Rook City that go unanswered by the Chairman's bought cops, tracking the waste from Pike Industries' factory runoff ending up salmon hatcheries, etc. etc).  It's also fitting for her to oppose MissInfo because Parse deals in facts, and Aminia is all deception, all the time (granted the Scholar also fancies himself a warrior for Truth, but still).

Hit the nail on the head with this one!  The Naturalist certainly fits this mold perfectly.  I'm not sure what to think of his links to Akash'Bhuta and Argent Adept


What I'm hoping is that Natch will have one Nemesis Icon for himself and the SlashBurnCorp he originally founded and now fights against, plus also the icon of Argent and Acky; since one of them cursed him and the other kinda rubbed his face in it, it makes sense that he'd be sensitive to, and pissed off against, both of them.  (I also wish there was a way to tie together all the "rich industrialist" characters - Wraith, Chariman, and one or both of Natch and his company - so that they'd all be nemeses, since they're all competing in the world of global industry, but that's probably more than the game's level of abstraction can handle).

Very silly idea - what if his character card has no nemesis icon, but each of his animal forms has a different one?  Thusly, he could turn into a gazelle who attacks for 1 and go poke Argent in annoyance, then become a rhinoceros and charge into his corporation's evil new owner's office.  Then he could become a lion and eat the Plague Rat, then turn into a rat and sneak into the Chariman's office and nibble his socks off or something, before flying out the window as a crow and going to express a grudge against Matriarch.

Related and slightly less silly idea - If I'm right about Natch having two nemesis icons, one for himself and one for Argent…then my hope is that the four Sentinels, assuming they each have character cards, will each have La Capitan's nemesis icon along with a different one of some random hero/villain pair, where they have a grudge against either the villain OR the hero.  (Writhe could have Tachyon as per their confrontation in her deck, or Wraith just because they get pissed about each other having similar names, and Spite and Ermine both mistake one for the other and attack them both.  Also, as per Foote's comment, it would be downright spooky if Idealist had an icon for Visionary.  Maybe Medico's second enemy could be Plague Rat or Gloomweaver, since both seem fitting antagonists.  No real clue on Mainstay…maybe since he's kind of a dumb jock, he'd oppose one of the more intellectual villains, such as Baron Blade or Omnitron, the latter being more fitting across both characters that have the symbol.)


but it feels like his background apes that of Black Panther or Moon Knight, which I like.


Forgive my ignorance, where is the Moon Knight connection?  (Also, "to ape" might not have been the ideal choice of verb there; remember, Gorilla Grodd controls Africa.)


My wife


So you're GLBT, but you have a wife?  Not really my business, I know; you don't have to say anything, I'm just wondering aloud.


    A size-changing female Thorathian, a la Giganta.

Wow, was I ever off.  I didn't see this one coming at all,


She could very easily still be coming in one of the last two expansions; we know she exists from Projected Paralysis, and it seems fitting to leave her out of this set, since she wouldn't easily fit in the HQ Environment we're expecting to get.


KNYFE feels a lot like a mash-up of Black Widow and Psylocke to me, both of which are characters that don't get their due in the comics world.


Personally I would say they're characters that aren't due very much in the first place.  (And no I'm not saying that just because they're female.  Storm and Phoenix and Emma Frost and even Jubilee are good female characters; these two feel to me like characters created for no other reason than to BE female, which is exactly what I object to about "tokenism".)


Ooh, I forgot about biker guy!I'm betting he'll be Mainstay–the enigmatic 5th from my list above.  I'd put money on him being a Lobo/Ghost Rider type dude–lots of chains, hooks, and knives, with some type of motorcycle or other vehicle


I'm still hoping you're right on this one, it's a very neat archetype (although Lobo was created to resemble Wolverine more than Ghost Rider; I'd also mention Spawn in the same category, and it's definitely one I think deserves to be represented).  While Mainstay isn't in this department at all, Writhe might have a little bit of that kind of action with his shadow-tentacles and criminal background, but I still definitely wouldn't mind a full-deck character who's all spikes and manacles and a bad attitude (the motorcycle I could do without).


I did have to laugh to see Dr. Medico make an appearance, and I see some neat synergy between Mainstay, Medico, and The Idealist (tank, healer, blaster).  My question is:  where does Writhe fit in?


To me it's fairly clear that the Sentinels are the Fantastic Four after a trip through a cosmic blender (and their status as La Capitan's nemesis, while still a little forced, seems more fitting if you picture her as an extremely rough analogue of Kang the Conqueror).  Medico has some of the scientific inclinations of Mr. Fantastic, with radiation powers loosely corresponding to the Human Torch; a variant of Torch's impulsive personality combined with a version of Invisible Woman's forcefields produce The Idealist; Mainstay has the supportive and somewhat bland personality of IW and fulfills the "bruiser" archetype of the Thing, while Wraith's troubled past suggests he has mental health issues and a disturbing appearance that make him sort of a vague match for the often-depressed Thing, but his shadowy cloak's extensible tentacles give him some of the powers of Mr. Fantastic.


I'm not sure how you'd implement intangibility into game play.


Ask Nightmist.


I see Baron Blade's Vengeance Party Bus playing much like The Ennead–5 character cards in play simultaneously, all of whom get to do wicked things on the Villain turn.


Because it seems we're getting more than 5 villains, my theory is that there'll be an array of second-stringers that can be "hired" by one of Blade's Five to fill out their deck into something playable by itself.  Each deck will be balanced around the assumption that the main villain of the deck has four teammates, but not necessarily the other four main villains.

Women are half the people in the world, and black people are maybe a fifth.  (Also I see "African" Natch and "African-American" Slim as being thoroughly different categories of person, no more alike than Legacy and Expatriette.)

The reason why I object to the random "by the way, this character is gay" moments is that it's completely unnecessary to establish any sexuality for a character in a game about battling superheroes.  Gender and race are obvious at a glance, but sexual orientation remains largely invisible unless specifically pointed out (whether in text or in pictures).  We only know of a handful of characters who are explicitly heterosexual - Finest Legacy has a wife, Greatest Legacy probably slept with a woman at least once (in vitro fertilization might have been possible in the first half of the 20th century, but certainly it was less common), Wraith had a boyfriend, and AZ lost a girlfriend, so Tachyon is one gay character in the Freedom V, who contain at least three straight ones (we have no information on Bunker's private life as far as I know).  But for the non-F5 characters, I believe Medico is the only one whose sex life is mentioned in any way; we can presume Omnitronx and Fanatic are functionally asexual, but I don't think there's any information confirming any of the others to be hets.  So why bother confirming one to be gay?  There was no reason why the subject ever needed to be broached.

I semi-agree here as well.  It's obviously central to her character, but I have yet to see whether this "disability hero" concept feels natural, like Professor X, or completely cheesy and forced, like Daredevil.  (Yes, you TOTALLY count as being blind when you have super-sonar senses.)

I thought there was only one?  I'm also very much "into" Environments as a concept, although I think it's criminal that the enviro decks are only 15 cards and not all unique.  I get that Adam can only draw so fast, but I really feel that, in particular, Insula Primalis and The Block ought to be far larger and more dynamic than they are, Time Cataclysm should have had much more "connecting lines", and Wagner Marsbase seriously suffers due to the Self Destruct mechanic often eating half of the deck.  The only Environment which I'm less than completely certain could benefit from "more everything" is the Final Wasteland, as it's sort of fitting for that to be utterly monotonous and devoid of interest points.

I've always found Autism extremely baffling as a concept.  From what I can tell, it seems to be about five hundred different conditions all being considered a single "spectrum" of related diseases, despite there being no single common thread which runs through all of them as far as I've ever heard.  What exactly defines what Autism actually IS?  It's never been explained as far as I can tell.

(The only other word whose definition seems equally confused, as far as I've noticed, is "vampire".  We tend to think we all know what a vampire is, but if you look through all the world mythologies on the topic, there are vampires who don't suck blood, vampires who can go out in the daylight, vampires who aren't dead, vampires who aren't evil, vampires who are or aren't affected by all the classic vampire weaknesses, and even vampires who don't suffer from supernaturally-enforced OCD about rice grains and shoelaces.  Yet despite this lack of a single coherent definition, I have little trouble saying just at a glance, "This is a vampire and that isn't".  For instance, while I can accept that Edward Cullen deserves the title despite how far Stephenee's vampires diverge from the standard, I absolutely draw the line at the "hemophages" from the movie "Ultra-Violet" qualiying as vampires when they possess NONE of the qualifications.  Not a single one; they don't even drink blood, despite the name.  All they have is super-strength and possibly arrested aging…you might as well have called them "supermodels on PCP".)
 

Ok. Thanks for the answer Paul

I really don't see how it was random. If it would of only said Medico adopted Idealist, that would imply that he is a single guy raising a kid with the help of Mainstay, which may drift into speculation about those two possibly having a homosexual relationship. However with the comfirmation of the character Caleb, it preemptively answers the questions that may have been asked.

I really don't care what people's sexual orientation, whether it is in real life or a game. Like men? Fine by me! Like women? Fine by me! Like chickens? Fine by me.

Yeah I was writing a comment as well, but got ninjaed by Ronway. 

Basically agree that the only reference to Medico's homosexuality as far as I could tell was made as part of him and his patner's decision to adopt a child... which seems a rather appropriate place to make it. 

When crafting the bios for SotM characters, any information about their backstory/personal life/etc that "makes the cut" is something that we consider important for the reader to know or understand in order to get a good sense of and feeling for the personality and motivations of the character. However, there are many details about every character that are True, and Canon, but have never yet been revealed. This is either because we are saving the information for a more opportune time, or because it is just not important enough to have come up yet, but may in the future.

Tachyon's sexual orientation is a good example of this phenomenon. Her internal back story had always included her relationship status and sexual orientation, but it happened to not come up until the Freedom Four Annual #1, when there was a plot reason to include some home life scenes from various characters. For Legacy, by contrast, we felt that his relationship status and sexual orientation was more important to understanding his character, so it is alluded to more prominently.

Rest assured, there are a ton of currently unrevealed details about all aspects of all of the characters, from personality traits to disabilities to ethnic backgrounds to preferences of all sorts. Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to eventually share them!

Or, they could remain unhighlighted since they don't sound particularly important.  Either is good, right?  I don't feel the need to know every detail about every character.  It's OK to let the players fill in around the edges too.

For the record, I preferred it back when I didn't know if Deckard was a replicant or not.  Didn't need to know for it to be a great story.

Bunker's debilitating shrimp allergy will be revealed with the release of the next expansion, which will include the diminutive, but no less nefarious villain, The Crustacean. 

In fact, that's how Lt. Tyler is ultimately defeated. 

True story. 

I've been waiting all day to get off work and give my comments on these.

First, I don't want to derail the topic too much, but I love learning about the characters of the multiverse and want to know as much info as possible.  Now my creative friends, if they don't like an element in a hero or villain's backstory, they just create their own.  3 of my friends have Absolute Zero and Nightmist as an engaged couple.  Seriously, how do they come up with these things?

KNYFE:  Her story didn't thrill me but her art looks awesome.  Also, sounds like she is a straightforward character, hopefully a 1.  Most of my friends I play with are non-gamers who always have a case of beer on hand so a simpler character can comme in handy.

Sentinels, The:  Wow, didn't expect that.  The fact that the Medico joke made it into the game is hilarious to me.  I can't wait to see how the mechanics work for this deck.  Have a feeling my friends might like them too.

Naturalist, The:  I like his story and interactions with the Argent Adept and Akash'Bhuta.  Another character where I am interested to see the deck mechanics.  Not sure how much I will like him, as I tend to struggle with characters who often have to switch gears, but he definitely sounds cool.  In the story, I do think it gives Akash'Bhuta a little more of a villainous edge.

Setback:  I know I didn't post my speculation here, but I seem to have gotten this one right: a bumbling character who manages to help out.  Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.  The name and the art are kind of meh to me, but I felt the same way about the Argent Adept before obtaining him and he has become one of my favorites.  Also, based on the comments I heard from playtesters in this thread I think that I will like him a lot.

Parse:  A very intelligent archer.  Sounds like an awesome character who I envision playing as a cross between Visionary and Ra.  I also think her art is pretty bad-ass.  Having a black girlfriend who has been begging for a black female hero probably means I won't be playing her much except in solo games.  I've already been assurred this.  On the bright side, it looks like I will have more of a chance to get familiar with Expatriette.

Question to playtesters:  Were you able to get the stories pretty dead-on based on the mechanics of the decks or were you way off?

Setback I was the closest with, aside from getting super powers as a test dummy.

KNYFE I had thought was an agent of some kind, was never really sure if it was FILTER or not.

Naturalist, would never of guessed he used to destroy the environment.

The Sentinels you can tell is a close team, but once again I wouldn't of guessed that Mainstay and Medico are the best of friends and Idealist was adopted by Medico. Writhe was obviously a villain at one point, so got that right!

Parse I knew she was an archer and deals with computers.

An Australian … no need for anything more … then the art at the bottom of the bio … i think AA might just lose his no.1 slot in my book

And this is exactly why I approve of the "minority" heroes. In so many games there are no "marginalised" characters for people who aren't straight white males to identify with. I'm personally not one of those girls that insists on only playing female characters, but I absolutely appreciate the fact that with Sentinels I have the choice.

I love Tachyon, personally. She's super-smart, female, a scientist who has many different research interests, funny, obviously very loving to her wife, and gay. She has much more in common with me than, say, Bunker does, and I can't identify with him as well.

The more diverse the characters are, the more chance there is that someone will find a character that they can connect with due to similarities with themselves. And that means you're appealing to and being inclusive of a wider fan base which is a wonderful thing! Everyone knows that boardgamers are predominantly straight white males, and people who don't fit that mould should absolutely be encouraged and welcomed and made to feel that they belong in the multiverse.

Awesome info, thanks.  The suspense is exciting.  My favorite part of getting the new cards is just examining the artwork.  I have no artistic talent whatsoever so I marvel at Adam's work.

Yeah, Gaming wasn't my easiest hobby to break her in to.  I am one of those straight white males, but as a gamer I don't feel the need to identify with the character.  Most of our friends are non-gamers and for it seems they generally pick the characters they identify with.  I play several solo games, so I always let everyone else pick first. 

Back to topic, I have a sneaking suspicion that the 5th Vengeful Five member is not Baron Blade, and can't wait to see the new environments.  I agree with what Arenson said earlier, the Environments are probably the most intriguing element to me.

My take.

1. KNYFE 'so artwork is GSF-ish.
2. I had thought KNYFE would be a medieval war general.
3. Parse seems the most awesome of the lot to me.

See, in the playtest forums Alex (the guy who invented Kismet) mentioned that in his speculative bio for her, he imagined her having an older brother who was supposed to inherit the Talisman, but she stole it. He was supposed to be really unlucky, and when he realized he would never inherit the Talisman, he decided to use his unluckiness as a badge of honor instead and use that to fight evil, and hopefully take down his sister while he was at it.

So, I assumed that was the backstory Setback was going to go with. Obviously... not.

I get what you're saying but sometimes the untold details can bring a character into a certain light that makes them so much more interesting. The details Christopher leaked about Haka weren't terribly important to the plot, but it gave me a much higher appreciation of the character and enjoy him more than I already did.

Are you being serious with that one, knowing something the rest of us don't? Or are you just pulling my leg?

I've been gone all day, sadly, and would have loved to take part in the "representing minorities" discussion, but it looks like I'm late to the party. In my defense, I was in the middle of a SotM campaign with my friends.

Thoughts: I think it's a good notion to have a very diverse cast of characters. While yes, Parse seems to be rather loaded with things that make her unique, I think each hero having some kind of trait to set them apart makes them a little more relatable for some people. Earlier, I told my Scottish friend about how we now have a Scottish hero in the game, and it made him happy to hear that. I think it's nice to include people of different ethnicies and cultures in the main players of our Multiverse.

But can it get excessive? Absolutely. But I have enough faith that we won't get to the point of excessiveness. 

I better start hitting the gym if I'm going to do any of these new heroes' costumes. These guys are jacked.

I definitely favor the idea of heroes of different nationalities, though I'm less fond of them showing up in books published outside the home country of the character...when guys with random accents show up in American comic books, I have a vague sense that the authors are trying to find ways to make a character seem more interesting than they actually are, so they don't have to write as hard, and the results can get a little silly (X-Men was a massive case of this, with Banshee and Colossus and Nightcrawler and several others all speaking in different accents, all comically exagerrated for the sake of text).  But just in the sense of giving a sense of a larger world, I approve of it.

As I said before, bringing sexual orientations into it bugs me because it's not necessary; the setting is not about sex, we don't really need to know that kind of detail about characters' personal lives (I know that comic books are sort of soap-opera-ish, but that's due to the volume they work in, it doesn't need to apply on the scale where SOTM is working).  Additionally, I feel as if just randomly slapping a "gay" tag on a character, without them being in any way different otherwise, is dishonest characterization; an individual ought to be holistic, with every part of who they are being reflected in every other part, even if we never learn all those details.  If the Argent Adept were revealed to be queer, I wouldn't bat an eye, because he plays a freaking flute and flies around in a totally eye-catching, not-at-all-manly costume.  It would fit the character smoothly.  Conversely, if someone as ultra-butch as Char or Citizen Anvil is gay, it seems in-character there too.  But for a character who "just is", and secretly happens to be gay without it altering their personality in any way from the heteronormative male standard...that I don't really buy.  Granted, it's much too soon to know that this is actually the case with Medico; maybe once I start reading his flavor text, it'll be completely obvious that he totally had to be homosexual all along.  But if not, I'll be left with the impression that it was a forced, gratuitous aspect that was stapled onto the character after he'd been fully conceptualized without that detail, and I regard that as a sad failure on a writer's behalf, whether the missing detail is sexuality, or religion, or job preference, or anything else that should have been factored into their persona all along.

I completely disagree with this. I really like the fact that Medico and Tachyon's sexual orientation isn't hamfisted on to us. I like the fact that they're not walking stereotypes whose powers only work when they're making out with members of the same sex or wearing very metrosexual costumes. So based on your example of the Argent Adept, it doesn't seem like you'd be opposed to gay characters if they were all flaming stereotypes. So how many flamboyant flute playing gay characters could they add before it is a problem?

Seriously, man? We're allowed to have gay characters as long as they're outlandish stereotypes? Because the most brilliant thing about Sentinels is that the characters are not stereotypes. And sexuality, to be frank, really doesn't matter beyond the people you fancy; due to hormones and stuff there are certain character traits towards which gay people are more likely to lean, but that does not even almost mean that all gay people have to exhibit caricatured examples of those traits. Even the idea that a person being gay "should" be obvious from their look or personality or flavour text is patently ridiculous.

Vis a vis "randomly slapping a "gay" tag on a character": I very much doubt that's what it is, because of the amount of thought Christopher, Adam and Paul put into every aspect of these characters, but if that is what it is then that's a bloody good thing! Why can't we have gay characters who are gay just because? No-one questions why the Argent Adept is ginger; no-one questions why Legacy is named Paul. So why must the decision to make a character gay have to be justified?

Finally, regarding then bringing it up, I would direct you towards Ronway's previous post:

See also the Wraith and Absolute Zero: sexuality only gets mentioned when it's an important part of the character's backstory, which in this case it is. It is not for Tachyon, so it's not in her backstory.

http://5secondfilms.com/watch/concerned-redneck

First, in at least one miniscule aspect, you're right:  this is a superhero game, not a sex game.  Which is why, on cards and in text, we see our heroes beating up villains, saving innocents, and working together as a team for truth and justice rather than watching Legacy get spanked or Nightmist as a dominatrix.  You're not being exposed to any hero's actions in the bedroom. 

Christopher and his crew have gone the extra mile in terms of worldbuilding by making heroes that didn't exist before 2010 or so feel as rich and storied as characters that have been in existence since the 1960s (or long before!).  Part of doing such means doing careful, nuanced characterization.  And, whether you like it or not, that means attaching history and backstory to each character that makes them feel like a fully-developed character.  "Tactfully avoiding" the issue of a hero's sexuality isn't a mature attitude to take, as it leaves out an entire important facet of character.  When you're building a whole Multiverse, you have to consider these characters as whole people.

Let's take, for example, Young Legacy.  There's nothing that's been stated about her sexuality so far, but the inclusion of a dynamic as nuanced as sexual preference provides a platform for character development.  What happens if Young Legacy is a lesbian?  Her powers are passed on by genetics.  Would she be willing to end the Legacy line to live an honest, free life?  I'm not saying that this is the direction that >G should go, but rather it's an entire plot-line of possibility that could not potentially exist without open, frank discussion of sexuality.

I'm going to call a spade a spade here and say outright that your viewpoints on what "should be" and "should not be" acceptable in an LGBT character is homophobic, wrong-headed, and backwards.  Your examples rely on overblown, misrepresented stereotypes (Argent Adept as the unmanly bard, playing a "girl's" instrument, the flute; Char and Mainstay as burly bears) and your statements bely fear of the unknown:  the "hidden" homosexual, out to ruin, to jump out and corrupt, malign, and seduce.  That's pure, unmitigated homophobia.

Why do you feel that there has to be a justification for Medico being gay?  That's unrealistic and unreasonable.  He's gay.  He has a partner and an adopted (superhuman) child.  What more needs be said?  No one has to justify their sexual preference to you or anyone else.  And, for what reason do you think that his sexuality was a "forced, gratuitious aspect that was stapled onto the character after he'd been fully conceptualized…" ?  There's no indication or evidence that his sexuality was an afterthought.  Rather, the fact that his interpersonal relationships develop overtime indicate that there's a greater plan going on–almost as if his writers knew that he was gay from the start.  Huh.  How about that?

You sought to raise my own preferences briefly after I mentioned that I'm both bisexual and I have a wife.  Both statements are correct:  I am a bisexual man married to a wonderful woman (who also happens to be bisexual/bi-curious).  Believe it or not–whether you'd like to admit it or not–I'm one of thousands in that situation:  a bisexual in a long-term relationship that appears, to all outside appearances, to be straight.  I'm also a high school teacher, a published writer and game designer, a fan of Pittsburgh Steelers football, a comic book nerd, and pretty reasonable cook.  All of these are a part of me, yet none specifically define me.  I am, as you are, a sum of my experiences.  Further, I (and pretty much every other member of the LGBT community) don't adhere to a series of outdated, homophobic stereotypes.  My sexuality is a part of who I am, but it is not what defines me.  And you certainly wouldn't be able to tell that I'm bisexual by passing me on the street; I'm no stereotype.

You know what would be gratuitious and unnecessary in SotM?  If the creators chose to make their gay character "Queer-Mo":  a burly man in a leather harness and pink tutu who flings razor-sharp pink triangles at his foes.  The stereotypes that you're specifically choosing to (wrongfully) uphold are absurd and overblown.  No LGBT person wants this as a superhero.  No person wants this as a superhero.  Rather, I (and I think pretty much anyone, really) would much prefer a mature, reasonable take on a hero's personality–if that take includes their sexuality as a part of them, so be it.  

The fact that >G has taken up that viewpoint and dealt with it with maturity–Tachyon's sexuaility is a part of her, not what defines her; same with Medico–makes me proud, as it epitomizes everything that is right and reasonable about the LGBT rights movement.

First, I want to thank everyone for keeping this conversation civil. It's far too easy for this kind of discussion to get out of control, and we really don't want to see that happen.

The only other contribution I want to make is to point out one thing: The way in which the characters of the Multiverse are represented is realistic. We don't have stereotypical representations of race, gender, sexuality, etc.; we have interesting characters. As in real life.

Some folks might not appreciate this, and that's their perogative. But for the folks who do, this is often a very big deal (as we can see from the examples provided so far in this thread). We should respect each other's views, learn from them, and - sometimes - just accept that we aren't going to agree.

Keep on saving the Multiverse!

A brief allusion to Dr. Medico's sexuality isn't pandering to the gay SOTM fanbase. That picture of Setback knocking Plague Rat off a roof? THAT'S pandering to the gay SOTM fanbase.

(Thanks, Adam!)

Ha. I hadn't checked out that picture until now. You're totally right. I've been encouraging my boyfriend to cosplay as Setback since I first saw the one playtesting image given, and this may not help my case.

Platinum_Warlock,

+1 is so inadequate for this post. Where would you like your shiny new Internet delivered?

And that's all I'll say as if I get involved, I'll certainly cross Rabit's request to be civil and I don't want to disrespect the moderators like that.

Well said.  

Several Internets, I think are required here. And I'll join pwatson in the 'not disrespecting the moderators' camp.

Don't think of it as crossing the mods - think of it as promoting a healthy and positive community.

But yeah, I understand what you mean. It's greatly appreciated.

PlatinumWarlock:

*applause*

You do realize how profoundly homophobic this is right? 

Warlock said just about all that needed saying and I certainly do not want to see this turn into a "lets pick on Envisioner" thread, but come on man. 

The only thing being overrepresented in Sentinels is America, and that is most likely because the game makers are based in America, and that is the world they see.

If we can accept that imbalance because of the bias of the creators in making a game that is from their background, and therefore heavily American than we need to accept that the whole game is being made in the world as the game creators see it.  We can try to apply statistics and our personal values and feelings to the Multiverse, but they don't apply there, because the multiverse isn't our world.

I really like the background of the Sentinels.

You have a crazy Scientist doing dangerous experiments on her own daughter, Nuclear radiation giving two college friends special powers, and a brilliant inventor willing to do anything to continue his work.

I can't help but belive that there is more we don't know that links them.  I think there is some secret research center in that town, and I imagine Nick and Jackson got an off campus apartment in the exact wrong spot.  Eugene and Mrs. Fischer probably both worked for the lab, and maybe Eugene worked with the Fischers, Mr. Fischer dies, Mrs. Fischer ends up out of commission (dead or otherwise gone), their wing of the project falls apart and Eugene is out of work, he tries to make a go of it on his own but his funding dies off (I'm willing to bet some money had come from a certain Mr. Blade) I like the idea that one place could create the hero team, I could even imagine all of them coming from a similar expirament to that which created Setback.

As for Parse, almost all geniuses have some flaw, some area of their intellignce that suffers while others excel.  Parse reminds me of Colin Laney from Idoru, and Aspergers gives her a nice counter to that.  If your mind works in a certain way it doesn't work in others.  Something in the code that transformed Omnitron into a sentient machine turned Parse's powers outward, and the perception she had in computer code started allowing he to see the connections and flow in everything.  Arrows are a great weapon for that power, putting the right type of sharp point into the exact right spot can make a lot of things happen.  I have a friend who is an Engineer who has Aspergers, I can't wait to hear what he thinks of her.

Not a big fan of the Naturalist, but that is only because I don't like nature heroes in general (love nature though, it's wierd), but he looks like his gameplay would be super fun.  I also love the animals they decided to use, and the Adept showing up randomly and messing with things really is cool.  I Honestly like Adept a lot more now that I know he goes around and messes with people to teach them lessons (or maybe tries to help people but things don't go the way he plans, who knows?)

K.N.Y.F.E. I'm not a fan of either, but that again is her powerset I don't like.  I do think we need more aggressive maulers in SotM, and she looks to fit the bill.  I'll probably enjoy playing games where other people are her, just like I don't play Haka much at all I doubt I'll play her much.

I like this expansions theme of unintended consequences and unlikely heroes.  Every one of these heroes started with a talent or in a direction, only to have that direction taken further than they could ever imagine, or in Mr.Conteh's case, his direction being responded to by a god.  They aren't at all like the other heroes from the other boxes, these guys and gals don't have great quests or epic beginnings, they are a more humble second tier of heroes, much like the Villains, who are rejects that Baron Blade picked up and formed into a team.  It is a great expansion, and I love the theme of it.

Well stated

I never said I wanted exagerrated stereotypes.  Tachyon is perfect - she has a very "guyish" attitude (hardly surprising, given that she's modeled after Neil Patrick Harris), yet she still keeps up her appearance as is typically feminine, so she comes out as a well-rounded character whose homosexuality is integral to her persona.  The same might well be true of Medico, we just don't know yet and I'm kinda assuming the worst.

Hair color is just a physical attribute, and a name is granted by one's parents.  Sexual behavior (not just sexual attraction, but the decision to act upon it) is a personal choice.  And unlike a name or appearance details, it's invisible unless intentionally highlighted.  We don't really need to know that Medico lives with a man, any more than we need to know that he chews his fingernails or listens to Foghat.  It's extraneous information to anyone other than the designer of the character, who knows that it's an essential part of his personality, just like flour is an essential part of baking a muffin…but it'd be a pretty crappy muffin if it looked like just a giant lump of flour after you baked it.

shrug  We disagree.  As I said, the designer needs to know, but the audience does not.

your statements bely fear of the unknown:  the "hidden" homosexual, out to ruin, to jump out and corrupt, malign, and seduce.  That's pure, unmitigated homophobia.

I have a distaste for deception and skulduggery in any context.  It may be getting mixed in with my attitude on this question, but they aren't actually connected.

Why do you feel that there has to be a justification for Medico being gay?

I don't think him being so requires justification, but us hearing that he is does.  As Ronway pointed out, the adoptive parenting of Idealist provides such a justification…but I'm inclined to think that taking your mind-of-a-child adoptive daughter onto the battlefield with you is not especially good parenting, and thus if she has two fathers, it automatically creates an allusion that a) Medico and his boyfriend are bad parents, which in turn creates another allusion that b) the fact that they're a gay couple is a contributing factor to their bad-parent status.  We're forced to ask, if Idealist had a mother instead of a second father, would that mother's feminine protective instincts have been more of a contributor to keeping the "child" (actually a vulnerable adult, but same principle) away from danger?  In other words, would a stable, nuclear family try harder and care more?  The answer might well be "no", but the situation inherently asks the question.

And, for what reason do you think that his sexuality was a "forced, gratuitious aspect that was stapled onto the character after he'd been fully conceptualized…" ?  There's no indication or evidence that his sexuality was an afterthought.  Rather, the fact that his interpersonal relationships develop overtime indicate that there's a greater plan going on–almost as if his writers knew that he was gay from the start.

I guess you picked up on some details I didn't notice.  I thought that it came out of the blue in mid-article, and seemed quite jarring and inappropriate to the context.  If he and Mainstay were buddies, did the latter know he was gay?  How did it impact their status as roommates?  That could perhaps have been covered sooner.

You sought to raise my own preferences briefly after I mentioned that I'm both bisexual and I have a wife.

You didn't say bisexual, you just said LGBT.  That could mean anything.  I didn't know your gender either until just now.  (I tend to assume everyone on the Internet is male until they state otherwise, but it's not a very firm assumption, so the moment says something that suggests they might be a woman, I begin revising my mental picture of them.)

You know what would be gratuitious and unnecessary in SotM?  If the creators chose to make their gay character "Queer-Mo":  a burly man in a leather harness and pink tutu who flings razor-sharp pink triangles at his foes.

Such a character would be incredibly silly, yes…but then, several thinly disguised Wonder Woman ripoffs are just this over-the-top in their femaleness and feminism.  A character like this would raise interesting questions on what influence GLBT status has over the development of superpowers (at least one fiction setting, the "Whateley Universe", inherently assumes a connection), which in turn would shed new light on the idea of "anti-mutant hysteria" and similar sources of dramatic conflict in the setting.  Handled properly, the character's inherent ridiculousness could become a vehicle for telling interesting stories around him.  It'd be far easier to do it wrong than right, but that's true of nearly everything.

I think you need to stop posting about this topic.  You are digging yourself deeper.

Just to be clear, she was reduced to the mind of a child and then "progressed quickly". That seems more like a memory-wipe and recovery than her permanently being mentally a little girl to me. 

Hair color is just a physical attribute, and a name is granted by one's parents.  Sexual behavior (not just sexual attraction, but the decision to act upon it) is a personal choice.  And unlike a name or appearance details, it's invisible unless intentionally highlighted.  We don't really need to know that Medico lives with a man, any more than we need to know that he chews his fingernails or listens to Foghat.  It's extraneous information to anyone other than the designer of the character, who knows that it's an essential part of his personality, just like flour is an essential part of baking a muffin...but it'd be a pretty crappy muffin if it looked like just a giant lump of flour after you baked it.

Hair color can be changed., and Paul's dad is a hero in the game.  We don't get a defense of Greatest LEgacy waiting to have kids till later in life, we don't get an explanation of why Tachyon was in the particle accelerator and not one of her colleagues.  We are told Greatest Legacy didn't have a kid till he was older, and that Tachyon is a scientist.  We don't need to know why Nick decided to have sex with someone he was attracted to.  I really don't want to read that paragraph.  As for parenting, Look at the Sentinels picture, I don't know how you attack a floating giant head of psychic energy, but I assume it isn't easy.

We're forced to ask, if Idealist had a mother instead of a second father, would that mother's feminine protective instincts have been more of a contributor to keeping the "child" (actually a vulnerable adult, but same principle) away from danger?  In other words, would a stable, nuclear family try harder and care more?  The answer might well be "no", but the situation inherently asks the question.

The situation doesn't inherently ask the question, social bias does.  No one is asking if Pauline had a pack of wolves raising her would they choose not to take the potentially most powreful superhero in the world out to fight with them.  No one questions Legacy leaving his daughter at home, when she is at least as powerful as her dad, but when the parents become non-normative all of a sudden questions become inherent?  That isn't how it works.

Don't worry folks. Envisioner is totally fine with the gays as long as they keep it quiet and don't bother the other normal people of society. For a second there I thought you were just being unabashedly biggoted. Glad you cleared that one up.

I know I said I'd stay out of it, but you know Whateley started as fetish stories right?

Hey, y'all. I wanted to let you know that, as a gay man, I'm getting incredibly uncomfortable in this thread. I've done a pretty good job staying out of it until now. Can we get this thing back on the rails?

Until then, I'm out. This is no longer a welcoming environment for me.

I don't think she's a giant floating head all the time, I think that's just for that particular group shot, you know, as a collectors' card for the multiverse kiddies collecting the whole set of trading cards.

However, as most parents will tell you, getting a 12 year old to do what you want isn't exactly easy. It's probably less a case of taking the Idealist with them as "Ok, we tried locking her in her room, and windows are expensive to replace. We can probably protect her better if we're right there with her."

Yeah, I got the impression she is basically a well-adjusted 12-year-old girl who doesn't remember anything before she was 8 - and basically doesn't have all the baggage most of us carry from our youth. Kinda cool - I can see why she's "The Idealist".

And she likes ice cream! Seriously, that was just awesome.

there are people who don't like Ice cream?

Heh, like a door is going to stop a telekinetic.

Plus, while Nick has superpowers, they aren't going to really help manage her and Caleb doesn't even have superpowers. Yeah, kids with superpowers… Wow. Scary/hilarious stuff.

Ya know, I was going to say that, but I knew as soon as I did someone would say they didn't like ice cream…

(Some people - my spouse included - can't/aren't suppoed to eat it, but that doesn't mean they don't want to.)

I don't like ice cream. I would guess that there are very few 12-year-olds who don't like ice cream.

According to my grandparents, when I was a kid, what I wanted more than anything was salad and dubious kebabs from NYC pushcarts.

Yes, even when Ice cream was suggested.

There have been homosexual super human characters in literature well before 2010. 1986 at the very latest.

Here's another possibility to explore about all of this -- the game started out feeling pretty Silver Age.  The heroes were fresh takes on old tropes, but most were still tropey enough to feel like classic heroes.  This newer batch of heroes feels a bit like comics in the 90s & 2000s to me, where the big comics felt they needed to up the diversity level to keep things fresh.  They tossed in some gay characters, they tossed in some characters whose powers could almost be seen as disabilities (who's that X-man whose power blew off the bottom part of his face?, or that other X-man Maggott whose "power" was that he had a pair of slugs in his stomach), they decided that Ant Man beat his wife, etc.  Some of it worked, some of it didn't, but it was a more-or-less natural evolution of the genre in an attempt to keep up with the world of its readers.

Maybe that's what's going on here, the world of SotM is moving on from the Silver Age to the Whatever-The-Next-Age-Is-Called.  Maybe we should expect an expansion where all the new heroes are wild maniacs like Punisher or Wolverine or Venom/Carnage was back in the day, because that's a phase the comics went through.  Or an expansion where everyone is an inflated muscle doll with tiny pointed feet like in the Rob Liefeld era.  Or an expansion where Bunker somehow becomes the most important hero in the universe because his movie made the most out of everyone's. ;)

Or maybe that's not what's going on, and Christopher just wants to make sure each expansion is filled with characters which are as diverse and interesting as possible, which feels good to some people and forced to others.  Could be either.  Still, makes you wonder which SotM heroes would survive a SotM "52"...

My point there wasn't that homosexual characters didn't exist in comics pre-2010.  I actually just wrote a blog entry a few weeks ago about the Batwoman situation over at DC, and she's been around since the 60s.

Rather, my point was that >G started making these character around 2010 (or thereabouts) and have given them just as much life and realism as those storied comic book characters characters that have been around since the 60s or early.

All I'll allow myself to say is this : I like the way the >G team think their characters. I like the fact that they all are worthy of appearing in a comic book line, even if some would only do so in small serials or as secondary characters. I like the fact they are not built on personality stereotypes, even if they follow power tropes. I like the fact they feel "real" and not like oversimplifications. I like the fact that some are gays and you can't guess who, in the same way that, even though I am an atheist, I'd like to know if Legacy goes to church or is an atheist, and would not be offended one way or the other. I like the fact that some of their choices may feel scandalous to some.

The Multiverse is a very rich super-hero "verse", and it is part of what makes the game so succesful for me. If I had a literary thesis to write, it would probably be about the multiverse and how the >G team was able with a few backstories, flavor texts and forum posts to make a whole line of fictional comics feel real and interesting, and how they were able to tackle some of the changes in our societies without falling into stereotypes and/or "silence is better" and/or over-correctness.

OK, completely misread that.

I love all the characters. Especially Setback.

Only problem I have is with the team deck being named "The Sentinels" but Ms. Information started out as "The Assistant" so maybe they'll get a better name before the release, if not, i'll get used to it.

Also on the subject of The Sentinels, I don't think Dr. Medico counts as a "healer" because he's part of a four person group "hero", so likely we'll only see as much healing as you have in say Legacy's deck. 

I also don't see anything saying Medico is gay, (I read they were on a double date, as in both on seperate dates)  but if he is, so what? 

No one talking about The Naturalist's last name being CONteh?

Being in tune with nature and able to shift forms could be a type of harmony...

We just have to find him on an older card, since supposedly we've already met Con.  Also Parse with her insight into code, I wonder if Con isn't some kind of group effort and involves a decent number of heroes we've seen so far.

Simple, he's the eel

By character:

KNYFE - Has the potential to be like AZ, but more of a physical bruiser.  Piqued.

The Sentinels - This is going to be one of those high-risk, high-payoff characters.  Like fighting the Ennead, but backwards.  Sold.

Naturalist - Looking just at the backstory, this character seems like the weakest.  Obviously, it comes down to gameplay, but he just doesn't grab me as a character.  Not sold.

Setback - I lol'd.  Piqued.

Parse - This put me over the top.  I'm really, really interested in this character as a concept and as potential to really add a great deal to this game.  Sold+.

Can't wait to see it!  Great job to the SotM staff.  Come November, SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

I also don't see anything saying Medico is gay,

He and his partner (a "he") ended up adopting the little girl.  It was subtle.

I kind of agree about the mostly-generic name, The Sentinels.  Wouldn't mind that getting changed to something with a little more zazz.

The X-Man with the missing face mentioned before was Jono Starsmore aka Chamber. 

Also, I hadn't seen this mentioned:  I wonder if the goon lovingly referred to as Hippocalypse could be the Naturalist's nemesis. 

That is a sci-fi channel movie right there, Crocodile Man vs. Hippocalypse.

I think I am most excited about Parse. I like archer heroes. And I like heroes whose main superpower is that they are intelligent. Also I'm very intrigued to see how her deck lets her find weak points. I can see how she would be the one that figures out all the clues to the Miss Information mystery.

I agree, Parse and KNYFE are my most anticipated of the 5.  I'm eager to see how a melee/energy brawler would evolve past characters like Haka and Ra, now that >G have been at this for a while.  Plus, y'know–archers are just cool.  I'm a huge Hawkeye fanboy, and my wife cosplays as Black Canary, so liking Green Arrow has to go with the territory there.

I'm slightly less excited about The Sentinels.  While I like the idea of fighting a group of villains, I'm not sure I really want to juggle that much on my turn.  While I think the heroes are interesting individually, I'd much rather focus on developing one than tossing down a card for one and letting the others suffer without.

I like The Naturalist, but I worry he'll tread on the toes of The Scholar in terms of shapeshifting.  I'm hoping he'll be more damage and control focused, as opposed to The Scholar's tanking and support.  

I'm kind of ambivalent about Setback.  I can see him character like him being fun to play mechanically, but I tend not to prefer jokey or slapstick themes.  I don't think his theme is so pervasive, though, as to make me not enjoy playing as him.  

Here's another something - we've got more masks this expansion than in all previous releases (as long as you don't count an armored helmet as a mask). Out of all of the heroes to date, Wraith is the only one who wears a mask. But in this expansion alone, we've got FIVE masks (if you think KNYFE's goggles count as a mask, that's six).

Naturalist's mask, I understand. He's got a rich, well known alter ego to protect like Wraith does. I'm not really sure why The Sentinels wear their domino masks, although I guess some of them sort of have secret identities (though Dr. Medico's mask seems pretty redundant). And I guess Setback just wears a mask because he's a doofus?

Possible reason behind Medico's mask? Perhaps they all wear it so they can match?

What about the Sentinels Tactics pic where Wraith doesn't have a mask at all?

Could CON stand for Cosmic Omnitron Nine?  An attempt to learn from the heroes through subterfuge?  Give them a place to heal that also calls monsters for them to fight so he can watch and learn?

Also, all the heroes in the expansion are pretty awesome in their niches. I wouldn't worry too much about them being good or meh.  That will be based more on preferences than effectiveness, I think.

My thoughts are as follows

K.N.Y.F.E.- I don't know why but she strikes me as a crazy one, maybe it is the implied allusions to Wolverine or maybe it is the joy she seems to take in blasting a hole through the green robot dude (bottom picture of her bio) but she seems like she'd take things too far just for thrills. However, she also is the first hero to be actively searching for the "end goal" and is our look in F.I.L.T.E.R. Plus, I bet she's a lot of fun mechanically, blasting, blasting, blasting I do so love blasting

The Sentinels- I was surprised to see Writhe (blew one theory out of the water) but it does raise some interesting scenarios. Why would Tachyon attack a hero, why would a hero attack Tachyon? Interesting theories shall abrew. My favorite though has to be the Idealist, casually defeats a time pirate, then wants to go out for ice cream, I love it. Also, looking at the hair color I think she may be the kid from Argent Adepts healing card, the one standing next to Visionary. My cards are buried right now so I can't check, but she looks close enough? Mechanically, they sound intriguing, perhaps round robin actions? Maybe having cards putting them into formation (Medico covers Idealist who helps Writhe set up the target for MAinstay) but I feel like however they do it, if one goes down they all go down, or at least become much harder to play, and Idealist won't be able to take too many hits I bet

The Naturalist- I'm just not a fan. I don't like the costume, I'm not sold by the story, and shapeshifting into African beasts isn't terribly exciting for me. Maybe he'll convert me, but right now this is my least excited

Setback- Yes, so many times yes. "I lost my job, but I got a new one where a mad scientist gave me superpowers, oh and I walked right out the front door and when he confronted me a giant robot fell from the sky". I almost hope he has an auto-play mechanic to represent these twists and turns he has no control over, but from some of the other comments I guess that doesn't happen, probably more of a "universal balance" sort of thing. Okay, you're working for Blade now, but you get to survive the otherwise lethal serum and gain super-strength. You walked out the front door? Well, he and his goons tracked you down to your burnt down house. Love the flavor

Parse- I'm actually really intrigued by her and her potential power. I thought, from reading the bio, she would end up setting up events and plans, sort of like an inverse visonary if that makes sense, but it sounds like that also might not be. I defintely think she is a very interesting hero, especially with her connection to the cosmic entity and the possibility that when her brain got its upgrade she actually understood said entity's power. Very exciting times. She is also one of the few heroes who I would say is not wearing any sort of "uniform" or "costume" which makes her interesting, just a shirt, skirt, jacket and glove.

I think you guys will be pleased with how the Sentinels function, since iv seen that specific comment a few times. Can't really give specifics to support that obviously, but they have been a blast to playtest. 

You don't read comics much, do you?

Interesting item of note: the picture that was teased of Parse surrounded by gray images?  Today I played a game in the Realm of Discord, and I noticed that the slowed-down Tachyon in Time Crawls looks just like those gray figures.  So perhaps Parse's powers include ultra-fast mental processing that essentially renders everyone in slow-motion compared to her.  (This is not quite the same as being a speedster, since she couldn't herself move any faster; she could do maneuvers similar to Hypersonic Response, but not run around the world or Lightspeed Barrage anyone.

I think you mean March.  You might be able to give them your money in November, but you won't get the game then.

Hell, you can give them your money now.

Hmm, I don't know… I think maybe not, there are enough differences to make me doubt it, but on the other hand there are several similarities.

I was going to say, if they're taking pre-orders, I'd like to think that they'd process it instead of sitting on it until the product arrives.

This one has a very easy answer: it was a fan request.

Masks are a trope. Heroes should be masked if they have a secret identity.

Weeeee.... Flame war .... I think here is good proof that everyone is different ... and thusly we should never argue on the internet 

but for the sake of arguing on the internet I would like to say why does Parse comes from Melbourne, why not Kulin Alliance or Byron Bay or Wagga Wagga ... people live outside the metropolian areas of Australia

p.s. Christopher Adam and Paul you do not have to respond to this ... i just wanted to make people aware

Because the guys have recently been to Melbourne, at PAX Aus. Yes, I did ask, and that was the answer.

Ah.  Didn't know it'd been pushed back.  Thanks!

It certainly looks like I'm in the minority but I found the bios to be pretty underwhelming.

from a mechanics standpoint I'm interested in how the decks play, from a fluff standpoint it feels like way more misses than hits.

In my opinion the characters that have been the most successful fluff wise where characters that built off not only the lore that came before it, but the cultural understanding of comic book tropes

in a lot if ways, rook city (in my opinion) was the best illustration of that

Expatriette is the non mutant daughter of the sentinels equivalent of magneto

The chairman is ras al ghoul to the wraiths bbatman

not only was rook city mentioned in the wraiths background, but they evoked sin city for its imagery 

fixer thematically fits into that world

spite is the joker meets bane

Infernal Relics kind of felt like a limp noodle.... I love mysticism more than the average bear but with the exception of Eenad / tomb of Anubis nothing felt like it was tied to its source material, or necessarily to itself aside from "hey, MAGIC!"  

Take night mist, cool dr strange character, but when you bundle her up with argent adept it just feels off

shattered timelines, like rook city, was also largely tonelly consistent - time cataclysm, iron legacy, the dreamer, la capitan, omnitron x .... All of these played into comic tropes as well as the larger sentinels fluff.

this stuff?  Bunch of nonsequiters that feel to "precious" to me.  With the exception of the woefully named KNYFE, nothing feels like it expands on the lore of sentinels... seeing someone who worked for FILTER is neat.  i wanted to learn more about the negative zone prison.  but the rest?  

Setback would be a great mini expansion concept in the same vein as the scholar... But he's a punchline

la captains arch nemesis is revealed to be.... 4 random dudes?

Miss Information, arguably the most personal bad guy with the exception of Iron Legacy,  has their nemesis revealed and its: a random data anylisist with a soft tie to omnitron?  

I'm 100% all for diversity, it's great, there are many types of people on the world and there should be representation for everyone.  HOWEVER, I think they could have achieved that diversity and still made their ties to the world be deeper, as opposed to what feels like one off characters (see also: Argent Adept)

have knyfe be a devote Muslim as well as a filter agent.

have your autsitc archer be related to The Operative.

have the sentinels be the blade battalion that rebelled against their employer in addition to being a diverse group

im not saying that these ideas are slam dunks or anything, it's just that Rook City and Shattered Timelines had things that felt inspired, these just feel like gimmicks

Keep in mind with that Ms. Information was a fan made villain, so most of the stuff about her is going to be a little forced in the mythos. Kismet fits a lot better since Setback was already planned as a luck based hero, so having a luck based nemesis makes sense for him.

Nightmist also the creation of Richard Launius and so yes she can feel a little forced in, but her existence still makes sense in the world. Doctor Strange feels very out of place next to characters like Iron Man and most of the other Marvel heroes, but he still has his niche in the universe that he fills out very nicely.

I don't know if Setback expands the lore, but he certainly fits into it. It makes sense for Baron Blade to want to try and make his own legacy. It's basically what Cadmus was doing in both Justice League and Young Justice, or was it just the light in Young Justice, I'm having trouble remembering. You also had the whole deal with Spiderman and his clones so that fits into the trope of the superhero universe right there.

I actually really like the Sentinels bio. It's a bit of fresh air for me. They're just a family that have superpowers that get drawn in to larger conflicts. Not everything has to be super serious all the time. They just feel very real to me and it's cool that you're playing a team of heroes who already have a history with each other.

I can agree that Parse's bio seems a little weird, but I do think it expands the lore of the multiverse that the effect of the Watcher's interference had other consequences outside of resurrecting Omnitron, makes you wonder what else occured due to his meddling.

Naturalist's backstory makes Akash a bit more relevant to the Sentinels storyline. I like Akash, but outsie of the Adept and his team, it didn't feel like she had much of an impact on the rest of the Multiverse, and so it's nice that her reach has somewhat extended.

I don't know if you were involved with the Shattered Timelines kickstarter, but the Vengeful Five are all characters that have appeared on card art before and have been subjects of speculation on the forum, and so the villains alone expand and build on the lore of the world in a way the other expansions haven't.

I would disagree that these are simply gimmicks if the mechanics of the characters end up being completely different from previous heroes. Shattered Timelines is great, but Chrono and Omni for the most part borrowed mechanics present in other hero decks and found a new way of presenting them, whereas NIghtmist and Argent Adept worked completely different from previous heroes. I imagine the Sentinels alone will be a completely different experience from past heroes and I'm looking forward to the rest as well.

I'm not concerned about how the decks will play, I'm sure the gameplay is varied and compelling.  I'm speaking to the fluff of the characters.  When I say "gimmicky" I mean stuff like Setback's gag of, "he's the hero who doesn't even know it"

the issue with IR to me wasnt the addition of doctor strange, I love that stuff... It's that the rest of the back doesn't strongly tie to it.  

Ennead feel like xmen villains, where as gloomweaver feels like a doctor strange villain.... Which is different from rook city where everything in the pack felt like something out of batman.  

These bios for vengeance don't speak of any consistency... They're feeling (to me at least) like isolated wrappers to interesting mechanics as opposed to interesting characters with mechanics to reflect their personality

Wanting an expansion to have consistency with itself is different from the characters themselves being interesting. I think all the Vengeance characters have interesting backstories which will reflect on the decks.

I'm not the biggest fan of Rook City because the world of it feels very small. As many people have mentioned, it feels weird to fight Spite or the Chariman anywhere outside of Rook City or Pike Industrial.

I really like the fact that IR and even Shattered Timelines have this gigantic feel to them. I don't suffer nearly as much cognitive dissonance playing the Enead outside of the Tomb of Anubis or Gloomweaver anywhere outside of the Realm of Discord.

It seems that the differences in opinions is mostly aesthetic, and so even though I don't agree with you, I can see where you're coming from.

Just a thought, and it may be wrong, but this is our first mega expansion. I think this may be a major turning point in the story, and if it's not, it's set up for it. Characters that aren't quite there now, will be very important later. This is stuff that can't be set up any earlier, because there wasn't enough world yet, and any later will force the storyline too quickly. If this is so, I'm very excited.

I personally didn't really feel La Capitan in that one.  She just kinda feels cheap next to Iron Legacy and the Dreamer (Kismet was fan-made so I'm not really looking at whether she fits).  Yes, she's a time traveler and so it's sorta fitting to have her in a set with Time in the name, but next to the villainous turn of two of our beloved core set heroes, we have this random time traveling pirate who shows up for no real reason and tries to kill Our Heroes…why? So she can take their stuff!  It's a rather underwhelming motivation compared to the other villains we've had.

la captains arch nemesis is revealed to be… 4 random dudes?

Yeah, I didn't quite get that part either.  Not to mention, there are probably going to be four times as many hero targets for her to be hitting (granted she only personally attacks once in a while), and she herself is largely immune to damage when on her Split Across Time side, so the nemesis bonus won't really help you.

Miss Information, arguably the most personal bad guy with the exception of Iron Legacy,  has their nemesis revealed and its: a random data anylisist with a soft tie to omnitron?

Another rather weak one I agree, although it's certainly somewhat fitting that the Freedom Five would need help when going up against an enemy who knows all of their secrets.  Having the new helper come completely out of the blue actually sort of makes sense there.  They're both very intellectual and indirect characters; I imagine that the fight between them is like the battle of wits between Light and "L" in Death Note, where they can be standing in the same room and trying to figure out whether each other are secretly the enemies they're fighting, giving each other coded messages to try and bait them into breaking cover, playing an endless game of does-he-know-that-I-know-that-he-knows (with an "s" in front of each "he" in Parse and Aminia's case).

Random thought…Parse got her powers from a transmission from space, so she should have the alternate identity of "Parsec", if we ever get promo cards for non-EE characters (apart from Unity).

Honestly, I'd rather the mechanics came first and the character second (hypothtically of course, I don't know how this game is designed).

Glancing over my game shelves, two games illustrate this well for me.

Talisman (2nd Ed). Very thematic. Adventurers and dragons and spells and battling monsters and fighting to be the one to get the shiny powerful artifact. Great. Gameplay? Dull.

Dominion. Theme? The theme is rubbish. Why does a Festival get you +2 Actions and +2 Money and +1 Buy? But the mechanics are solid, and the game works.

And I'd pick Dominion every time over Talisman, even if you could play Talisman in 30 minutes. It's probably because I'm really a Eurogamer, and definitely prefer function over form.

Real quickly, I'd like to quell a couple worries; The Sentinels are actually REALLY GOOD agains La Capitan -- they were, in fact, designed to be, considering they ARE nemeses. They're actually surprisingly good against characters with weak AoE, like Plague Rat and the Matriarch, despite their multiple targets and low individual HP.

Parse is also the ultimate hard counter to Miss Information. Having her along is almost necessary; it can lower her apparent difficulty from a 4 to a mid 3. I'll let you decide HOW she's a good counter on your own, knowing how MI works.

Well I haven't played Dominion, but based on your information, I much prefer Talisman, though I don't actually play it too often because of the length.  I enjoy evocative, surprising games more than I do math puzzles; the latter have their charms, but art and flavor text and emotional-satisfying, experiential gameplay are the things that keep me coming back for more over and over.  With a mechanical game, I tend to get the feeling of it being "solved" after a while, whether or not I was the one who solved it; it feels like some optimal plays just dominate the game and there's no longer any mystery or discovery to enjoy.  It varies exactly how much of that feeling I get, but most of the strictly mathematical games will give it to me eventually.

Dominion isn't that way, mostly because there are SO MANY CARDS to pick from, but you only play with 10 of them at a time, so the experience is vastly different every time.

I've played about 1500 games of Dominion and I don't have any sense of it being "solved". There's some maths if you want to approach it that way, but mostly it's about managing your deck, spotting which cards synergise with others, and modifying your strategy according to what your opponent's doing. (I'm not holding it up there as the best game ever, but it illustrated what I wanted to say.)

I personally prefer a bit of thinkiness to theme-coated fluff. A game can have the best, most evocative, most exciting theme in the world but if it's just another roll-and-move (probably my most hated mechanism) or roll-to-gather-resources (you guessed it, I don't like Settlers of Catan either) then it might as well be about filling in tax returns in triplicate, because I'm sure as hell not going to play it more than a couple of times.

That's why I like Sentinels - sure, it's a very thematic game, but there's a solid base under all the chrome and it's got a good slug of crunchiness which keeps me interested. It's be easy for a game like this to play itself, but this game makes you plan, and react, and look for interactions, and make tough decisions.

Obviously it's a game, so mechanics come first, it's just that previously they had their cake and could eat it too.

dominion is a fun game mechanically, but when you compare it to drafting games with themes (like thunder stone) I have a different play experience.

even MtG has shifted from isolated random s#!t to themeing for each expansion because there is real power when fluff combines with crunch.

Going back a bit to how the fluff is related, I think the point that for now it feels unrelated is the point. To me, everything haplening in this set is an unintended consequence of another action. These are the heros that never intended to be heros, but something out of their cintrol forced them inti that role. Knowing the guys, there is somethibg planned latter that will make all of this make a lot more sense. After all, in comics, you don’t always get the whole story up front.

I remember when I first read the characters for the television show "Firefly". Burned-out captain, Loyal first mate, wise-cracking pilot, prostitute with a heart of gold, Preacher...with a past, etc.  They felt like the most stereotyped character list out of two genres. When the show came out, though, the execution made it work.

I really liked Firefly.

I've only briefly read the bios.  I think they'll do -- the execution and the quotes on the cards will make the characters breathe.

Most excited about the Archer.

I think the Vengence Bios are less well written than the previous ones, but that could just be that I don't know the hero first.  All the other heroes I played before reading their Bios (other than Unity) and so the Bio just filled in background on a character that I already knew pretty well.  

It is quite possible that these Bios were rushed a bit, given the sheer volume of work >G is going through right now.  

i think that's kind of my point: firefly started with archetypes, then let the personality make the characters special.

previous characters in SotM did the same:  take the familiar, add a twist, get something unique

these just don't resonate with me at all.  That being said, art is subjective and if people really dig these guys that's great.  I was just hoping for more out of >G

I got a different message from Amnachaidh's post, Melonball. We've only seen the bios (with the exception of the playtesters, and they've only seen the mechanics and bios). For the past heroes, we've seen everything: the art, the flavor text, the whole package. Hopefully, as has happened in the past, we'll see the whole package for Vengeance and they'll resonate.

Or it won't, because maybe these particular heroes just aren't for you. That doesn't seem likely, but it has happened before where someone just didn't like a specific set / group for some reason.

We're all different.

There are all kinds of heroes and villains characters in comic books. Some have epic origin stories making them legendary, or epic powers - like Superman. Some have less "wow!" origins and beginnings.

Like, for instance, a young science geek who was bitten by a radioactive spider and gained spider-powers. This is not the most engaging beginning for a hero. Nor a power-set that would at first sight destine him to fight to save the universe. And his tag-line his "friendly neighborhood super-hero". But he became one of the most beloved and complex heroes.

The Hulk is just, in the beginning, a scientist who, after exposition to gamma rays, has the uncontrolled power to change into a big green megastrong, indestructible, stupid colossus. And he can't control neither his "power" to transform, nor what his transformed self does.

Or let's take Shadowcat, because I am a fan. It was just a young girl with the power to become intangible. A mascott for the X-Men. Who would have thought she would become one of the more popular X-men, lead her own team of misassembled heroes, save the universe, and even team-up with Spiderman in an alternate time line/ book line ?

What makes a super hero memorable is more than his origins/begginings backstory, but the stories he is in, the issues he is confronted to, and what  "life" and meaning the writers can give him.

Of course, as the SotM heroes and villains don't have a line of comic books to fully "fluff" them, we, players, are in the same position as someone who would look at the beginning backstory of Spiderman without knowing anything else about him, and would wonder what the fuss is. Untill we can see them in play, read the fluff text on the cards and see the art. Then it will help our imagination to "connect" with the submerged part of the SotM iceberg - all these fictional hundreds of comics >G has planned as the background of the game.

I don't react in the same way with all heroes - I find some "lackluster", simply because, at first sight, they are not the kind of heroes I am interested in, from a story point of view. And other players will find other heroes uninteresting. I am a big fan of the Scholar as a character, for instance, (and I can easily imagine the kind of storytelling he can be used in) - but I know that some other players on this forum find him ridiculous. I feel no interest, right now, for K.N.Y.F.E. or The Naturalist as characters, but that's fine, I feel no attraction to Cable or the leader of Wakanda either, but they are part of the whole story and have their place in it.

All this wall of text just to say that even if I don't find all the heroes backstory engaging or "strong",  I am very satisfied with the "big picture" of the multiverse as a fictional comic book line written by many different authors for many different audiences. But everyone can react according to his tastes and preferences - I just do't think that any hero we have is a "writing failure", just a facet of the multiverse we may not like.

Fair enough.  I don't feel that way but I can definitely respect such a feeling.

It's be easy for a game like this to play itself.

Actually my only major criticism of Sentinels as a whole is that it can do exactly that at times.  You frequently have only a few meaningful choices; I worry that sometimes I'm killing a new player's ability to enjoy the game by having to tell them "this is the correct play, don't do that instead"…but it's a team game, so you have to sometimes tell the other players what the optimal play, if they can't figure it out themselves, because otherwise the entire team loses.  This came up in a recent game against Omnitron, where Fanatic's player wanted to kill a particular target, but I convinced him that we needed him to hit something else instead, and then the player was annoyed at me when an Environment effect came out and made him suffer for having followed my advice (which was completely tactically correct at the time).

I love Thunderstone, like Ascension, and am currently going nuts trying to think of a third fantasy DBG similar to Thunderstone which I remember liking more, and haven't played in too long.  Perhaps I'm imagining it.  More recently, I've fixated on "Legendary", a Marvel Superheroes DBG, as well as the two Lord of the Rings movie DBGs (a bridge between the two exists in the form of the DC Heroes DBG, which is a little too simplistic for my taste, and very badly flavored).  I was also lucky enough to playtest an Egyptian-themed DBG that may or may not ever get published, and was very fond of that one for thematic as well as mechanical reasons.

Magic, IMO, has long since jumped the shark.  I like that they have a different world every year, but the way that they design cards (making the vast majority of them worthless in order to drive sales, as players are forced to chase powerful rares which are both more fun and vastly more likely to win) has gone from simply pissing me off to utterly disgusting me.

I think there's a bigger issue at play, there. I hold to the following position, myself: It's a team game, but we also should respect other people's choices. There's rarely a "correct" play/action - there's an answer that might result in more damage or a better tactical position, but often it's more fun to do whatever we feel like doing. One of the keys to a team game is each player gets to make their own decision; the rest of us should contribute information and make sure everyone understands our thoughts and preferences, but in the end that player should make the decision.

For example, when we're doing demos at Cons, I will often point out cards that are useful or appropriate, but if someone says they want Tempest to play Cleansing Downpour as his first turn play (even though he has far better choices), I'll make sure he understands what the other cards actually do then move on - it's that player's choice. They have a lot more fun because they're able to actually make choices and experience the consequences (positive or negative) of that choice.

I've been on both sides of this situation, and in general I've found everyone has a much more enjoyable game when they're allowed to do what they want, even if someone else at the table doesn't agree with it.

I wish I could remember exactly what the situation was...I was playing Nightmist, so I had significant reason for being a control freak, but I can't recall exactly what was going on, and I don't own the Environment we were fighting in, so I can't currently reconstruct the situation.  And I was definitely being a bit of an arse, because a guy I dislike had been enrolled in the game over my objections (he was not the other player previously mentioned, it's just that his presence at the table was leaving me on-edge...he later had the gall to say that SOTM is "always the same", just as I had said of his favorite trick-taking card game, which should give you an idea of why he and I don't get along).

Excited to see some of the art hopefully as we get closer to February/March.  When I first get a hero deck I like the card mechanics to be a surprise, but I will flip through and look at the artwork to try and get a feel for a character.  I feel the artwork in the deck gives me as much or more insight into a character than their bios and also gives me an idea of who I want to try first.

Could it be Shadowrift?

Never heard of it.  As I said, I may be imagining things.

Nightfall?

Rune Age?

Neither of those.  I've not played either, though I have debated trying Nightfall.

Maybe Heroes of Graxia?

Never heard of that one.

On the subject of fluff, I'm on the boat of "wait and see what comes from them." Sure, the bios might not be the richest thing ever, but that's normal. The bios are just supposed to be their origins, not their personalities. We'll get the personalities from the flavor text. That's why it's called FLAVOR text. We might be looking at a couple of cake bases right now, but let's not complain until we see the icing.

Speaking of bios...  I'm dying to see the villian's or environments... Gotta think they have planned the release timed to the start, middle, and end of preorders.  We are getting pretty close, right?

We already pretty much know what the villains are, so that reveal would be somewhat anticlimactic.  On the other hand I'm intensely curious about the environments.

And meanwhile I'm still eagerly awaiting the Freedom Six bios...

Me too! Promo bios would be amazing.

Me too! Promo bios would be amazing.

This, and several other things (*cough* story challenges) are things we will definitely do as soon as we are able, and more important tasks are complete (such as Vengeance and GSF) :)

Story challenges that follow prominent comic arcs in the fictional comic world would be really cool. Just saying

Awesome! I'm not hassling, honest, just enthusiastic. I can wait. I might grumble slightly under my breath, but I can wait.

(such as Vengeance and GSF)

GSF is still a thing?  It's been so long, I thought I'd dreamed the whole thing... ;)

I refused to wait, but apparently that doesn't do anything.  So I also will wait.

The real solution is to spend all of our time on a time machine, so that ten years from now or so we can come back to today and deliver the finished products and we'll all get instant gratification in at least one timeline.

I'm dying to know about Golem Unity and Price of Freedom Wraith, literally every second is a second closer to my death.  Waiting kills.  (Not waiting may also be equally fatal, but the lab results are not in yet.)

Keep in mind that Sentinels Tactics is set in the future, so there may be info on how Our Heroes turn out in that, which >G might not wish to spoil.  Granted, the Freedom Six are from an alternate timeline, and not from the future that Tactics depicts (since the picture had a Legacy who was distinctly non-Iron), but still, there may be parallels between their future and that of "our" heroes, so some information may be held back.

Personally, as this isn't a comic nor a cartoon show, I care more about the bio's than their personality.  Expatriette is Citizen Dawns daughter…that's a cool backstory that feeds the world.  I dont need to know about her speech patterns.  Reading Tachyon's flavor text doesn't tell me anything special, its just a cute gag of her talking fast.  Is there personality there?  yes.  but the by-in comes at the character fundimentals.

(As an aside, my outdated browser crashes a lot on this forum, and this topic in particular nearly always does it the first time I click on it in the Updated Topics list.  I wonder why it happens here specifically.)

All of the bios for Vengeance feed the world in one way shape or form.

The Sentinels are another team in the Multiverse.

Knyfe is an ex-Filter agent and her bio explains more about Filter's place and role in the multiverse and hints at something larger to come.

The Naturalist, as I've mentioned earlier, actually shows the kind of stuff Akash Bhutah can do and likes to.

Parse shows the farther reaching effects of the cosmic entity and emphasizes just how little he pays attention to the consequences of his meddling.

Setback further explores the lengths that Baron Blade will go to crush Legacy.

If you don't like the fluff that's fine, but I don't see any reason to be actively hating it if it's not actually hampering how you play the game in any way. We just know some more about characters that we love and enjoy. Again, I only dislike new information if it somehow makes the character less enjoyable or less fun to play, which so far has never happened for me.

Well sure, in the crudest sense all of the vengence characters feed the world, they're characters in the multiverse.  I just think they are on a significant tier below other characters that have been created (again in my opinion)

Ultimately fluff can never hurt mechanics, just the psychological impact. 

Why actively hate on them?  Because I've bought every product these guys have put out and I'm dissapointed at the percieved quality hit that I'm getting.  The forums are meant to be a place you can give critique, not just cheerlead how fun the game is...and it IS a very fun game, which is why I'll buy Vengence even though to me the characters make me roll my eyes...and I guess that's my point.  In a wierd way those simple bios HAVE hurt my enjoyment of the game. 

Both inclusiveness and storytelling is a big part of my professional career, and as a result I know I bring a differnet set of baggage to this conversation than other folks, but these characters (however well intentioned) come across as really lazy and pandering to me.  Just saying that a character has aspergers doesn't make you inclusive, it's just feels like your going for a cheap pop.  It adds nothing to the character, it adds nothing to the story.  But there it is in the first line of the character bio... parading it out to make sure that people know "hey we're socially responsible"

To use another medium as an example: Omar Little from the Wire is one of the coolest characters around.  He's also gay.  However his sexual orintation isn't a plot point, or used to define the character, it only comes up when people target his lover to get to him.

Tachyon kissing her sleeping wife on the forehead before leaving on a mission?  That's classy.  If Tachyon's bio said "foremost lesbian scientist..." it would have been cheap.

Singling out Medico's partner is another example of pushing that aspect of the character forward into the conversation, which isn't celebrating diversity, it's using it for a marketing gimmick.  We know Caleb's name, but what about the person Mainstay was out with?  Oh wait it doesnt matter because that's not important to the character.  However by singling out Caleb the whole thing becomes presentational, as opposed to natural.  It's like giving money to charity then going out telling everyone you know that you gave money to charity so people realize how good a person you are.

Again, I know that their heart is in the right place.  I also know that most pepole probably don't come at these stories from my same point of view.

I'm not looking to burn down the doors of >G, i'm just saying that as a consumer I'm dissapointed, because I know they can do better. 

Again, I just don't feel that the fluff or character information you describe detracts from the game in any meaningful way. If anything, information like that makes the characters feel more real. I think the information is very natural given that it's fun to know the kind of family that the Idealist is part of. I also don't feel like it's pandering to have a character with Asperbers. There are real people with disabilities or handicaps that contribute to society. I would consider it pandering if all of Parse's flavor text had something about how just because she has aspbergers doesn't mean she's a hero, but so far the information we've been given is that she's a person with aspbergers who also has superpowers. That's kind of cool.

I just don't agree that there's any reason to be actively upset by the background information about characters that is given to us. It makes them feel more like real people, it makes the multiverse as a whole feel more real and can give a whole new dimension to a card game that is fun to play.

There's nothing presentational about saying X character is Y. It's just a part of who they are, and so far Greater than Games has done a really good job at having a diverse class of characters without it being over the top gimmicky or offensive.

Not being snarky here, but "Saying X is Y" is kind of the classic example of being presentational.  That's what made Tachon kissing her wife work: it was shown not told.  Pase and Medico is all tell, no show.

I'm not saying that >G is being offensive, on the contrary, they're going out of their way to NOT be offensive.  What I'm saying (and what I'm dissapointed in) is that they are doing it in a hamfisted, lazy way.

I have no issues with a character in the game having Aspergers.  From a storytelling standpoint, I have a big problem with writers saying "LOOK OVER HERE! THIS IS THE CHARACTER WITH ASPERGERS!" .  Again, not the end of the world.  Just sub par (to me at least)

We don't have any comics other than the Freedom Four annual number 1, so there's no way for them to show that kind of stuff except in card art, and I have a feeling that would end up offending you even more. For the way that they are telling it, it doesn't come across as "Look at us! We have a character with Aspbergers! That makes us awesome!" It comes more as just an aspect of the character.

Totally agree, it was mentioned so much in her background story that I just couldn't get it out of my mind. They were trying way too hard to sell it, i'm suprised her name was Aspergers with how much it was brought up.

If someone asked me what is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Parse, it would be that she has Aspergers, not that he is an archer or can see the weak points in structures and even people.

It was brought up once in the opening sentence "For all the trouble her Asperger’s syndrome gave her in her younger years," It's not even a full sentence. This is literally the only time in her bio that it comes up. I don't personally think of Parse as the Aspbergers hero. She is a highly intelligent data analyst who happens to have Aspbergers.

Sarcasm on the internet never works. Curse you internet!

Sorry, Ronway. For what it's worth, I was confused by your sudden change in personality.

for the game, it's an irrelevant aspect of the character, that's what makes it read as being attention grabbing.  Tachyon's bio doesn't talk about her sexuality because it is 100% irrelevant to her job in saving the multiverse.  Including that element to the comic was a nice touch that deepened the character and wasn't exploitive because in the story we were taking a peek into her home life, and that was a great space to add color to the heroes. 

Again; it's not a failure of intent, it's a failure of craft. 

The guys at >G are socially consious folks.  They're trying to celibrate diversity.  That's awesome.  More people should try to do that.  But rule one is to create strong characters first, then allow anyone to inhabit those roles.

These bios make me curious about the mechanics, not the characters.  Which is too bad, because previously they did both.

Are these going to hurt sales?  Absolutley not.

On a personal level, will it cause me not to buy Vengence?  Absolutely not.

Does it make me less interested in other products by >G?  Kind of.  Because between these and the fluff backing GSF it feels like they stumbled onto something that resonates strongly with me, as opposed to understanding how to harness it.  6th Sense was cool...the Happening?  Not so much.

While I know you're being sarcastic, I honestly didn't even recall that she saw weak points in structures because the lasting impression was "She's Katniss with Aspergers". 

EDIT: There's a differnece between being exploitative and beating someone over the head with the concept stick.  SotM isn't being exploitive, but it IS getting more and more hamfisted

The fact that Parse has Asperbergers is not 100 percent irrelevant to her job of saving the multiverse. It's partly been learning to cope with the condition that Parse sees the world the way she does and was such an effective data analyst which in turn became even more souped up with the Omnitron incident. Likewise, Medico's sexual orientation was brought up because he and his partner were raising another one of the heroes as their daughter.

Sexual orientation is irrelevant in raising children.  Saying Medico adopted the girl conveys the same thing; as writtern there is nothing personal about it that ties it to the larger world.  If Medico's partner was a villain who later turned bad, or was the warden of the block then it ties to the larger narrative.  this was just calling out that Medico was gay for no larger purpose other than to say that Medico has a partner named Caleb...compare that to The Wraith...the death of her boyfriend helped drive her to be a hero, and that dude doesnt even have a name (at least not in the bio).

EDIT: Who knows, maybe Caleb will end up being a villain in the expansion, or a character in the environment and this will all be apart of some masterstroke (or changed to retroactively be a master stroke :) ), then at least it would have value.  As for Parse, I think we just have to agree to disagree.  

Nothing important that ties it to the larger world? The girl he's raising is a superhero? She fights villains with him, and is part of the team. What is your definition of larger world? The death of Wraith's boyfriend is even more unimportant to the story than Idealist's adoption. It was even cut out of the rulebook, and is only listed in the extended biography. Character relationships between heroes are important because that's what helps build the larger world.

What about Caleb is relevent to the Idealist's adoption?  It's very important that Medico adopted her.  But they deliberately went out of their way to call him out as gay.

So it wouldn't have offended you then, if Caleb was Sarah instead? Because that would be deliberately calling him out as straight.

It would interest me a great deal to know how many other Sentinels characters are gay, or disabled, or belong to any other group that exists and might bear representing. I personally do see the need for both the mention of Aspergers and Medico having a partner, but since it has been previously stated that there's a great deal of minor and intricate detail about the characters we don't know, it would be interesting to see if there's anything major they're not raising a flag for.

I think might be missing my point: It offends me, not because he's gay, but because from an intent point of view it feels like they are using his sexuality presentionally, as opposed to a trait of his character.

None of the other bios (to my knowledge) call out any other loved ones, including Tachyon.  But they deliberately called it out in his.  It's a subtle thing, but it's an important one. 

Again, it doesn't matter that Medico is gay.  It doesn't matter that Parse has Aspergers.  And because it doesn't matter it's lazy writing to force it in.  The issue isn't the content.  It's the execution.  

To be clear on what I'm trying to say: They're badly written.  That's what offends me. 

They're not badly written. The details are mentioned at points in the bio in which they are important. Being raised by a single dad is very different than being raised by two parents, and also different from being raised by two parents of the same or different gender. Knowing that Medico has a partner while raising Idealist is an important thing to mention because the image and conflict of a single dad are very different from one in a relationship. It also isn't heavily thrown at the reader's face that he's gay.

Legacy's wife isn't mentioned because his relationship with her doesn't directly affect his connection with any of the other heroes. By the time Felicia becomes relevant to the picture, she's eighteen and her own independent character not toally reliant on her mother.

Parse's aspbergers is also not poorly written. It gets mentioned early and gives us an idea of why her mind works in the way that it does that is a different flavor than the genius of Tony Stark.

I'm sorry, but from a writing perspective both of the aspbergers and the gay partner fit perfectly into the narrative of the characters. I have to disagree that it's poorly written.

Just wanted to say real quick that everything Melonball has said on this issue is pretty much exactly what I meant to say earlier, before I got carried away into a rant and eventually got a warning for it.  It's not that I'm against Caleb or Parse, I just don't think it was necessary or very classy to point it out the way they did.

Stories are full of things that are strictly unnecessary to the plot. Unnecessary isn't necessarily bad if it expands the character and gives them a more rich personality. It's true that Dana wasn't mentioned in Tachyon's bio, but would it have been really that bad if it was. I think Stephen King puts it very well in his prologue to his re-release of the Stand. I've done my best to edit the swearing. Stephen King is a little foul, surprise.

"If all of the story is there, one might ask, then why bother? Isn't it
indulgence after all? It better not be; if it is, then I have spent a large
portion of my life wasting my time. As it happens, I think that in really good
stories, the whole is always greater than the sum of the parts. If that were not
so, the following would be a perfectly acceptable version of "Hansel and
Gretel":
Hansel and Gretel were two children with a nice father and a nice mother.
The nice mother died, and the father married a b###. The b### wanted the
kids out of the way so she'd have more money to spend on herself. She
bullied her spineless, soft-headed hubby into taking Hansel and Gretel into
the woods and killing them. The kids' father relented at the last moment,
allowing them to live so they could starve to death in the woods instead of
dying quickly and mercifully at the blade of his knife. While they were
wandering around, they found a house made out of candy. It was owned by a
witch who was into cannibalism. She locked them up and told them that when
they were good and fat, she was going to eat them. But the kids got the best
of her. Hansel shoved her into her own oven. They found the witch's
treasure, and they must have found a map, too, because they eventually
arrived home again. When they got there, Dad gave the b### the boot and
they lived happily ever after.
The End.
I don't know what you think, but for me, that version's a loser. The story is
there, but it's not elegant. It's like a Cadillac with the chrome stripped off
and the paint sanded down to dull metal. It goes somewhere, but it ain't, you
know, boss.
I haven't restored all four hundred of the missing pages; there is a
difference between doing it up right and just being downright vulgar. Some of
what was left on the cutting room floor when I turned in the truncated version
deserved to be left there, and there it remains. Other things, such as Frannie's
confrontation with her mother early in the book, seem to add that richness and
dimension which I, as a reader, enjoy deeply. Returning to "Hansel and Gretel"
for just a moment, you may remember that the wicked stepmother demands that her
husband bring her the hearts of the children as proof that the hapless
woodcutter has done as she has ordered. The woodcutter demonstrates one dim
vestige of intelligence by bringing her the hearts of two rabbits. Or take the
famous trail of breadcrumbs Hansel leaves behind, so he and his sister can find
their way back. Thinking dude! But when he attempts to follow the backtrail, he
finds that the birds have eaten it. Neither- of these bits are strictly
essential to the plot, but in another way they make the plot they are great and
magical bits of storytelling. They change what could have been a dull piece of
work into a tale which has charmed and terrified readers for over a hundred
years."

Also, keep in mind that we don't actually know the full story of the multiverse, so really who are we to say what is and isn't necessary when we have no idea what's coming next or even what the stories involving these characters are like. I don't care if the information we get is strictly necessary. I care that it's enjoyable and enriches the characters, which I feel both Parse and Medico's backstories do.

Hey, folks. We've wandered into the realm of different opinions, which is perfectly acceptable. Just remember that they are opinions and respect that we have different opinions.

You complain they told you a character was gay yet call them out for lacking class. Grow up. 

This thread is infuriating. 

Nielzabub, I actually think your Stephen King excerpt reinforces my point: these bios are truncated pieces and just casually throwing in a sentence to get a reaction cheapens a moment that could be more powerful if done with care (see: Dana)

last night I think I came off as too strong with "badly written", but it is incredibly inconsistent and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  If every character bio had amongst the vital statistics a section that said: 

relationship status:

then listed if a hero was single, widowed, married, etc.  then listed the partners name, there would be no issue for me because than the writer is informing the reader with even information.  By calling it out (however well intentioned) it shines a spotlight on something in an attention getting way...something I might add, that was effective givin by how many people were lauding the stories for being inclusive.

different opinions are just that.  You like them.  I don't.  But to be clear, I don't like them not because of their content, but because I know they can (and have in the past) done better.

The point of the Stephen King piece was to illustrate that several pieces are necessary for the whole of the story to be formed. Your basic argument this entire time has been that the information such as Medico's partner Caleb, and Parse's Aspbergers were unnecessary to the story of the multiverse. Again, Parse's Asperbergers demonstrates how she sees the world and how that perception of her world influences her powers. Medico's relationship shows that he is a family man raising a daughter in a healty monogomous relationship. These are details that enrich the characters and make them seem more like real people.

 I don't feel that this information detracts from the characters in any given way. You used Tachyon as an earlier example of showing information the right way, but when the Freedom Four issue came out, there were people on Board Game Geek saying the same thing about Tachyon and Dana's relationship that you are saying about Medico and Caleb.

The point of the Stephen King quote is that a story which emphasizes only the points that are strictly important to the plot can come off as boring and without a lot of life. I think the positive support these characters have gotten for inclusion proves that they do reach and effect the audience in a way that's positive.

As I have previously mentioned, if The Sentinels backstory was written with just saying "Medico adopted her" there would be threads asking if he was doing it alone, did he have a spouse of some sort, or since Mainstay is the most obviously closes to them, that perhaps there was something going on there. After all, when Tachyon was revealed as a lesbian, people started saying that her lover was Unity. Was it desperately needed? Not really, but I find that it is nice to learn about the personal life of other heroes.

I'm with Nielzabub here.

Medico being gay makes him more interesting as a character. I immediately wondered how that had affected his relationship with Mainstay, when did he come out, and how did Mainstay respond initially? It also tells us that Mainstay is accepting of Medico's sexuality at least now since they're still good friends. It tells us that Medico and Caleb as gay males probably had to fight pretty hard to even be allowed to adopt the Idealist and that they likely face continual prejudice on a day-to-day basis - there are many people out there who, while they claim not to have a problem with non-straight couples, insist that children should be brought up only in a traditional one-mum-one-dad family unit. This means that their family relationship is likely very strong in order to have even considered going though the adoption process, and also as a result of the struggles I assume they've had.

This of course impacts the Idealist too - she's much less likely to be pressured into conforming to particular societal expectations, especially gender-based ones. She'll also face prejudice.

If Medico was straight, none of these issues are there. And I believe his sexuality is important enough to be mentioned in his bio since it talks about the adoption, and the gender of his partner is absolutely relevant to that.

As for Parse, sure, the Aspbergers mention feels a little clumsy. But it works within the context of a being-able-to-spot-patterns-that-most-people-can't type character - it's clearly referencing the real-world phenomenon of "savant syndrome" (previously known as idiot savant or autistic savant) in which a person (usually on the autistic spectrum or with severe mental disability) hyper-fixates on a particular narrow area of expertise and subsequently develops an ability in excess of what would be considered "normal". It's a decent reason why Parse has natural "superhuman powers" even before Omniton affected her.

And looking beyond the game here, however bad or good the writing, I for one am extremely happy to see the inclusion of heroes/villains who aren't straight white American males, a group which is traditionally extremely over-represented in the genre. As a non-American not-entirely-straight female with a disability myself, it's refreshing to find a game that essentially gives the message that regardless of gender/colour/sexuality/nationality/age or even species, or even biology, all these people are worthy of being proper characters.

No. There is a difference between sharing opposing opinions and sharing opinions which are framed as being intolerant and biggoted. Why is there no discussion about how KNYFE being Scottish is not relevant to her powers or her as a superhero? That could have been easily shown and not told right? Soooo hamfisted! Who cares that Setback used to work at a casino, or that Argent was a bartender? How utterly tasteless!  How about Ryan Frosts new high rise appartment? Unity didnt like going to class, how tasteless to mention!

No. Of course theres no issues there. But know what is an issue apparently? Being gay and having a mental disability. Thats what is being talked about as "innapropriate" and "classless". And you want me to respect that? In a public forum no less? I quite frankly resent that notion.

@Envisioner and Melon:  The defenses of yourselves are crap. You honestly believe yourselves? I think you do. Homework for you both. Go read up on the concepts of "Cognitive Dissonance", "Self Reflection"  and "Apathy" and get back to us.

You both are missing the forest for the damn tree bark.

That strikes me as at least somewhat logical.  What are two fathers supposed to tell a little girl when she hits puberty and needs to know what's happening with her body?  There are very legitimate reasons to think that some family dynamics are just not necessarily adequate to the need.

Medico is a doctor, i'm sure he knows enough.

If by legitimate you mean scientific, then no there isn't.

And done. This is neither the time nor the place.

Someone please take the time to explain to me why this thread wasn't locked days ago. Right now seems a good place as any

Alrighty, folks. Enough is enough. Feel free to discuss the characters and such elsewhere, but this is unproductive and negative and I'm not willing to watch it get any worse. It's already gone much too far.