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Christopher announces Sentinels Tactics!

113 posts · 10650 views · started 2013-08-13 15:37 UTC
CM
Chromium_Man
2013-08-13 15:37 UTC
#1

https://greaterthangames.com/blog/2013/08/a-most-august-announcement

This sounds pretty cool.  I've grown accustomed to full co-op games the past few years, but I'm willing to branch out.  One interesting point mentioned in the blog post:  this game takes place a few years after the primary Sentinels storyline and we have Legacy alive and well and looking a bit older and Wraith also looking older and without a mask.

Let the speculation begin!

RO
Ronway
2013-08-13 15:39 UTC
#2

Based on their belt, the FV still exist. The fact no one else other than Legacy and Wraith are present makes me question as to whether or not some of the other members have been replaced.

FO
Foote
2013-08-13 15:41 UTC
#3

Legacy is clearly wearing two rings. Thoughts on that?

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-08-13 15:42 UTC
#4

OOH OOH!  I just noticed that Legacy is wearing two rings! 

 

Edit:  Foote ninja'd me.  I was looking at old pics of Legacy on the website (I'm away from my cards ATM) and I see that he wears gloves.  Maybe he always wears two rings, one is his wedding ring, the other the Legacy ring, and we've just never noticed before.

 

Edit 2:  Foote and Ronway both presented the idea of wedding/Legacy rings while I was editing the post the first time, LOL.  I'm going to take a few hours break from the thread so I stop seemingly stealing people's original thoughts :stuck_out_tongue:

 

RO
Ronway
2013-08-13 15:43 UTC
#5

I just thought one was the Legacy ring and the other was the wedding band.

 

Also to toss in, the background is probably Insula Primalis, so Dawn is going to be playable. Now comes the question, do main villain work as a team or do they have their respective minions? So someone playing as Dawn would have all those citizens, while someone as Baron Blade will have an army of Blade Battilion.

 

Another thing I had noticed, both Legacy and Wraith's costumes have gray sides on their costumes. So I guess the FV had now started wearing matching uniforms. 

FO
Foote
2013-08-13 15:43 UTC
#6

One is on his middle finger. The other his ring finger. Did he get married? To Wraith?!

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-13 16:04 UTC
#7

Either that or it's a subtle "T" (for tactics)

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-13 16:28 UTC
#8

Sounds like Sentinels-flavoured Heroclix without the clix. Therefore I'll contain my excitement until I hear why this game is unique...

SP
Spiff
2013-08-13 16:45 UTC
#9

While I think playing with the standard SotM heroes/villains will be fun, I'm hoping there will be lots of new characters to play so that it doesn't feel like we're playing a SotM game just with minis.  If I want an evening with Bunker, Legacy, and Wraith, I already know where to go to get that.

FO
Foote
2013-08-13 16:48 UTC
#10

We will probably see new and old faces alike. Maybe even new people in old mantles

RA
Rabit
2013-08-13 16:50 UTC
#11

Can definitely understand containing excitement. My spouse isn't as interested in a tactical board game as I am. In fact, she'll probably never play this, but she loves playing SotM. 

I'm very interested in playing this, though. :sunglasses:

BR
Braithwhite
2013-08-13 16:56 UTC
#12

I'm sort of hoping that sometime in the far future, we'll see 3rd edition Sentinels, which takes place after Sentinels Tactics in the storyline.

we coud have new decks for existing heroes (to reflect their changed circumstances, new technologies, and such), new heroes, villains, etc.

 

Who wouldn't want to Play Young Legacy as the leader of the F5, with her own deck, alongside AZ (with a new deck), Bunker (new deck), and Wraith (new deck) and Tachyon (new deck) against some new threat...or an old villain with a bag of new tricks.  Voss bringing a fleet to destroy the earth instead of conquering it.  Citizen Dawn's resurgence, or Citizen Dusk popping up with an army to depose her.   Baron Blade's minions forming a union to sell their services to any other villain.  An older matriarch who can control more than birds.  Plague rat and his legion of infected.

 

I'm definitely looking forward to Sentinel Tactics, but I'm looking forward to the continuation of the story even more.  

CR
Craig
2013-08-13 17:06 UTC
#13

I'm happy for another thing to playtest! Amirite?!

BR
Braithwhite
2013-08-13 17:20 UTC
#14

I'm hoping that it'll be at PAX prime, since I definitely want to try it.  I'm wondering if each character has cards that they can play (that are unique to them), or if they all have standard actions that they can do (that are modified/enhanced by by rules unique to their character)

 

Mostly because it would be AWESOME to have:

Legacy be able to fly great distances, ignoring the terrain

Wraith be able to lurk around the perimeter, taking out enemies one by one

AZ to ice down areas to make them impassable or create jagged spikes of ice

Tachyon be able to move anywhere, all the time

Bunker have all sorts of combat options

Expatriette be able to create a fields of fire for approaching enemy targets and snipe from far away.

Tempest be able to effect the landcape in large areas., but they are dangerous to heroes as well (after all, flash floods and storms are kind of wild)

FO
Foote
2013-08-13 17:26 UTC
#15

All your ideas are awesome. Simply awesome

RO
Ronway
2013-08-13 17:36 UTC
#16

I certainly wouldn't, I would rather have new heroes rather than a new deck that has only a few changes to an existing deck. I feel promo cards already do a good enough job of doing that.

 

Good luck to him ever getting out of whatever place NightMist bound him in.

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-13 17:48 UTC
#17

Good luck to him ever getting out of whatever place NightMist bound him in.

Who needs luck when you have creative plot lines?  Voss is a great Villain, he'll always find a way back.  (or a successor)
I'm honestly more excited about he Sentinels RPG than a tactical board game.  Every time I play a good tactical board game I end up wishing I had RPG'd it instead.

 

BR
Braithwhite
2013-08-13 18:10 UTC
#18

 

See, when I say "new deck" I actually mean changing everything.  Sentinels Tactics takes place after the current arc- so years.  Then this (entirely theoretical 3rd edition) would take place after the TACTICS arc.  So even more years. We know SoTM is ending its current incanration after a few more expansions…but theres no reason why it couldn't come back with SOME of the same heroes and LOTS of new ones in a NEW story arc that carries SOTM even farther.  As 3rd edition it could take EE rules and change them/expand them.  Maybe it would be compatible, maybe not.  who knows! 

 

I'm not talking about changing one or two cards and giving current ones a wording polish.  heres an example of what I'm talking about:

 

Wraith: She's not wearing a mask in Tactics, so maybe her home environment has changed.  Maybe she's no longer keeping her identity secret…or maybe something happened to Montgomery industries or the world thinks that Maia Montgomery has died.  she'd have ALL new equipment to reflect advances in tech.  She'd have clandestine informants from years on the streets.  She'd have caches of resources stowed away.  Maybe she doesn't have her trust fund anymore.  Maybe she's got a few loyal people that can keep her supplied with information.  you could change EVERY SINGLE CARD with new mechanics and abilities to reflect a Wraith who's been on the streets for years, and operating as part of a team for a long time.

 

Bunker: With new technology, you could build a suit with nano-assemblers and hard-light controls.  Maybe a telepresence rig.  Maybe he can call in fire support from remote drones, or link up with satellites for surveillance.  You could change everything about his deck, while still revolving around modes and cutting-edge weaponry.  You could build an entire deck around regulating power levels and the offensive output vs defensive capabiliites.

 

AZ- maybe he's figured out how to live without the suit.  Maybe he absorbs the heat and channels/processes it somehow.  Maybe he uses implanted biotech augmentations run by an AI implant to regulate his temperature. What if there is conflict between his augmentations?  What if the AI tried to take control?  think about the possibilites of being able to not just "freeze" stuff with "cold" but be able to influence the potential energy in matter by reducing its temperature- sure, cold is a part of it…but Frost was a Physicist!  he could take his powers in all sorts of directions!

 

Young Legacy- Her deck could eb all about someone who was NEW at being a leader.  who was grieving about the death of her father, but bearing up under the responsibility.  It could eb about someone who made rash decisions, throwing herself into the fray without thinking it all the way through.

SP
Spiff
2013-08-13 18:31 UTC
#19

Sentinel Tactics is a tactical combat game that uses a hex grid map to represent terrain.

Oooh, maybe we can make our own homemade maps for custom scenarios?  I made an online version of Heroclix back in the day, and the most fun part was coming up with new and interesting maps for the fights.  I might need to open a new Tactics-flavored section of spiffworld.com sometime in the near future. :)

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-13 18:36 UTC
#20

I'm good with tactical board games. I mean I prefer games with cubes/meeples in general, but tactical games, light wargames, stuff like that I'll definitely play.

Guess I just want to know what this game's USP is, i.e. why I should want to play it rather than my friend's (unnecessarily large) collection of Heroclix. I'm not enough of a fangirl just want this just because it's Sentinels… :wink:

Heresy, I know.

CM
cmschex
2013-08-13 18:36 UTC
#21

While I love tactical style games, my wife (primary SOTM playing partner) is not too keen, so I'll have to wait on this.  The mini's will probably be a must buy just for using with the card game, though.

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-13 18:38 UTC
#22

Me neither. I'd take a new character with a new deck over an old character with a new deck any day of the week.

AZ with a new deck wouldn't be AZ, so he might as well be a new character as far as I'm concerned. So what's the point?

SP
Spiff
2013-08-13 18:46 UTC
#23

I'm trying to dig up some more info about this and have come up with only a little so far.  Christopher's post says that Tactics uses the TacDice system created by Living World Games.  There's no info about the TacDice system on their site, but that system is what's used in the Schlock Mercenary: Capital Offensive game.  On the Schlock BGG page, I see a few normal-looking dice, lots of tokens, simple character sheets for the characters, some criminally simple map tiles, and a few decks of cards.  There's no reason to think that they'll be identical, but here's a PDF of the Schock Mercenary rules, so we can get an idea of how this designer implements the TacDice system.  I haven't looked through it yet, but will over lunch.

BR
Braithwhite
2013-08-13 18:50 UTC
#24

 

Sentinels is unique in terms of board games in that it has a story arc and that its heroes change and evolve over time.  For me (and I respect that not everyone feels this way) having some old characters return with new mechanics and new decks would be a way of continuing their stories and acknowledging that there have been new developments.  I'm certainly not advocating that every single existing (and future) Sentinels character be redone.  But it would be awesome to have new iterations with new mechanics.  I think you could definitely make a new deck and even change around the mechanics without compromising the "feel" of some of the heroes.  To directly address the matter of AZ:

 

What makes him AZ? Is it the damage type?  The fact that he's miserable? the mechanic that revolvess around specific equipment pieces?  the mathiness?  Maybe its the way he uses his own HP to deal damage.

 

I really do think that you could make an entirely new deck that incorporated some of these existing ingredients and some new ones to creat an AZ that still felt like AZ, just older, and changed by his experiences.  

 

 

SP
Spiff
2013-08-13 20:32 UTC
#25

I'm not loving what I'm reading in the rulebook for that other game that uses the TacDice system.  I know Tactics won't be exactly the same as Schlock Mercenary, but the basic movement and combat system are probably very similar.  In Schlock Mercenary:

1) You roll dice to see how far you can move, which I don't love.  That means that how far you can move is random turn-to-turn, which makes actual tactical choices more difficult.

2) When you roll dice for movement (or for how many command actions you can take on a turn), you'll either use the highest of the die results, the lowest, or the middlest (median) result, depending on the situation or your powers, or whatever.  This seems to be a core part of the TacDice system, but it doesn't actually seem to be a particularly clever or good system.  It's just a different one.

3) For combat, each attack lists the number of dice you roll, and has an auto-miss number(s).  The example they give is for a Laser Gun that rolls 3d and has auto-miss numbers of 1 and 3.  That means that if any of the die come up 1 or 3, you'll toss those die out from your results.  What a random rule.

4) After you've tossed out your auto-miss dice, you then check for line-of-sight (I think I'd want to have done this before bothering to roll), and then you have to toss out any of your remaining dice that are less than the range to your target (i.e. if they're 3 spaces away, you'll toss out any 1s or 2s you rolled.  Since you already tossed out the 1s and 3s due to auto-misses, you will now only have 4s or above left, if anything).

5) The defender then gets to roll some defense dice, with each one eliminating an attack die that matches it or is less than it.

6) If there's anything left over, it's applied as a hit on the target.

Here's an example from the rulebook:

Example I
Schlock shoots at a Drone and rolls 5 dice at Range
2. Schlock gets a 1,1,2,3,3. The 3s are AutoMisses
and are removed in Attack Step D. The 1s fail to
make Range and are removed in Attack Step E. This
leaves Schlock with a single Attack Die of 2.
The Drone’s Defense Attribute is 2. The Drone rolls
2 Defense Dice and gets a 1 and a 4. The Drone’s
player uses his Defense Die that shows a 4 to
eliminate Schlock’s Attack Die of 2. Schlock has no
remaining Attack Dice.
 
Example II
Had Schlock been at Range 1, he would have hit with
a 1,1, and 2. The Drone’s Defense Die of 4 would
eliminate the 2, and the Defense Die of 1 would have
eliminated one of Schlock’s dice that showed a 1.
This would have left Schlock with a single Attack
Die of 1.

I have to say, it doesn't sound like a good system at all. :(

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-13 21:34 UTC
#26

Based on that, it sounds like it's what I feared - rolling buckets of dice and checking LOS all the time. I'm not a big fan of too much dice-iness in tactical games, personally.

And it sounds far too much like a generic wargame. I'm yet to be convinced.

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-13 21:47 UTC
#27

I actually am interested to see how this system works with Sentinels.

I am fond of rolling dice, and I like systems that weight instead of add to rolls, so I like the high/low/middle as it gives some randomness but with percentages directed by the character you have.

I can see what they are going for with the attack rolls, you can set up an attacks range, accuracy and power with that system, I wouldn't say random, as good use of it would give more of a different feel to the attacks then more simple systems.

Again, I'm a huge dice rolling fan.  I love RPG's but I hate D20 systems, I love anythig with a bell curve, and this game seems to cut the middle, a system that allows for variety and stat leaning without dumping huge amounts of rules on you.

Done well it could do to a tactical dice roller what Sentinels did to strategy card games, give you an easy to follow system that has a lot more complexity than you first see.

I'm very curious, and optomistic that it will be a fun and fast tactics game.  It would be a shame if it falls flat.

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-13 21:53 UTC
#28

Don;t get me wrong, I love dice. And I love rolling them. But too much randomness takes away a lot of the tactics, which probably isn't so good for a tactical game.

FO
Foote
2013-08-13 21:54 UTC
#29

I could pretty much echo Phantaskippy. Ill wait to reserve judgment of the dice system until we see how they chose to implement it. 

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-13 22:18 UTC
#30

We will have to se how much randomness there is.

For movement the more dice you roll the heavier the high/mid/low will weight the results, so a high move character that rolled four dice and took the highest would move farther more reliably than one who rolled three and took the middle.

The attack rolling interests me, esp. the auto-miss results.  The way it seems, for a shotgun you would make the auto-misses higher numbers, making it very effective at short range, not so much at longer ranges and with more suceptibility to armor reducing the damage.  For a rifle, you would want lower numbers, making it not gain as much from shorter range, yet not losing the higher numbers with more punch to get past armor.

I fully understand the dice rolling ruining strategy in games, I'm a big fan of Diplomacy but I won't play RISK because it is all about dice rolls, and screwing up all game can be reversed with a really good stretch of rolls.

The best system is one that gives you a bell-curve on your results, but those tend to be incredibly heavy on system time, this seems to be pretty fast, but with out the really random roll 1d6 and move of a game like Last Night on Earth (which I love, but it is random as heck).

I'm really hoping it works, a fast and fun but well weighted dice game system, well if I found one of those I guess I'd buy some furniture and give the cat a name.

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-14 04:24 UTC
#31

You guys, quit judging the game already! You barely know anything about it! With what GtG has done so far, couldn't you at least have a LITTLE faith that they MIGHT know what they're doing?

AR
arenson9
2013-08-14 05:29 UTC
#32

Since Sentinel:Tactics has been announced and a pre-release version will be demo'd at GenCon in mere days, I think it is safe for me to talk about it. I had the great fortune to have a chance to try a brief introduction of it tonight. I'm writing a little bit to brag that I got to play, but mostly to share my enthusiasm.

 

I liked it! A lot! Part of the love is getting to use the characters I know and love. I was controlling Bunker and got to make decisions about when was the right time to go into Turret Mode and which of his guns made the most sense given where I was compared to who I was trying to hit.

 

I liked the mechanics: Fun rolling dice; Enough decisions to enjoy having an effect on what was going on, but enough randomness to not feel compelled to map out intricate details of multiple moves in the future. Enough of a bell curve that the general likelihood of what should happen for an attack could be intuited, but with a reasonable chance that something spectacularly good or bad would happen.

 

What I saw of the attack resolution is much as Spiff described it. The numbers that fail on an attack, btw, have an effect on how well the attack works at different ranges. I don't have enough playtime yet to judge whether or not that affect is sensible generally, much less for specific attacks, but I had a positive feeling about it.

 

 

SP
Spiff
2013-08-14 14:16 UTC
#33

That's all good info.  I'll take the word of someone who's played it (him) over a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about (me) any day.

GO
Gordo1981
2013-08-14 15:00 UTC
#34

Still interested, I hope to hear more soon and frequently!

 

 

RA
Rabit
2013-08-14 15:10 UTC
#35

We're planning to try to play it at Gen Con, if possible, so I'll be able to give you my assessment, my spouse's, and potentially that of friends who will be with us.

Hopefully other folks will also get a chance and can share, also! :grin:

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-14 15:16 UTC
#36

Thanks Arenson9, that sounds like what I was hoping for.

Cursed Gen-Con that I am unable to attend.

I'm very excited for this game now.

Any prospective timeline for release?  Or do I need to somehow steal the demo from Gen-Con and then destroy Gen-Con so the pre-order of Vengeance will go up.

I need minions, and maybe something large and round to crash into a convention center.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-08-14 21:11 UTC
#37

I've got some experimental growth hormone, if you're interested...

What I really want to know from anyone who plays Tactics is how thematic it is. Tactical combat is all very well and good, but a big part of what makes Sentinels Sentinels is that it oozes with theme.

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-15 00:16 UTC
#38

Well that makes me feel a bit better, knowing arenson likes it. I really do hope it's good, which is probably why I'm so critical. A bad Sentinels game would be bad, right? ;)

SP
Spiff
2013-08-15 05:56 UTC
#39

Andy, the Schlock game uses a grid map, but I think I read that Tactics will use hexes (?) What did the prototype you played have?

AR
arenson9
2013-08-15 22:49 UTC
#40

 

Hexes

RA
Rabit
2013-08-16 01:35 UTC
#41

Personally, I think the Tactics game has even more theme to it than the card game. When you're playing the Tactics game, there's no random card draws - you have access to all the hero's abilities and can choose which you want to implement each round. Each hero can have 2 "powers" active at any time and you can swap one out each turn.

Heroes get a certain number of actions to use, with options to do more that are character-based. For example, Tachyon can Push the Limits, which lets her take damage to take additional actions.

There are a variety of scenarios, with boards constructed out of specific sets of hex boards. (Each large hex has 19 smaller hexes.) Each scenario has a specific layout using specific hex boards. Right now, we're demoing Bunkers Battle School, which is heroes versus heroes. Saturday will be demos with Kevin and Luther, the designers of the game, playing a villain against the heroes, so all the heroes will be working together against the villain. There's elevations to deal with and wooded spaces, both of which impact the game.

There's definitely some streamlining needed, cleaning up and balancing of powers, etc. Personally I'm enjoying it. Each of the heroes takes some work understanding how they're best played, but that's not surprising as there are a lot of interactions between a hero's powers, let alone between the various heroes.

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-16 05:46 UTC
#42

Sounds a bit like Heroscape, with a more in-depth dice/ability system and a Sentinels flavor; particularly with the way the hexes interact. I would love building custom arenas with my heroscape pieces...

BO
boxwood
2013-08-16 18:38 UTC
#43

So to those who have played at gen con or where ever, are the Freedom Five the only heroes you've been able to play? I mainly want to bring the FV vs Prime Wardens fight to light, and also because other than AZ I don't have much interest in the Freedom Five.

RA
Rabit
2013-08-17 02:54 UTC
#44

Right now, it's Freedom Five and Ra.

GR
Greywind
2013-08-17 03:01 UTC
#45

"Ra and the Freedom Five!"

There's a band for ya.

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-17 03:14 UTC
#46

http://youtu.be/Xb760GoBfgA

Very quick 5 minute demo

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-17 03:48 UTC
#47

Thanks for that, good to see the cards and explanation.

I'm looking forward to it.  Can't wait to see villains flood the field with Minions and the heroes have to fight through.  The game looks like a winner to me.

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-08-18 00:04 UTC
#48

Thanks for posting that, Matchstickman. I had read the Schlock Mercenary rules and this looks to be very similar right down to some of the same icons. I'm very excited about this. 

RA
Rabit
2013-08-18 00:36 UTC
#49

FYI: The icons will be changed to be more SotM-related; right now, they're focusing on gameplay before worrying about asthetics. :slightly_smiling_face:

Today's games were heroes versus villains, so folks got to see what it's like to go up against Dawn and Blade. Great stuff - it's a very different game than hero-versus-hero!

CM
Chromium_Man
2013-08-18 14:29 UTC
#50

I figured/hoped they would change the icons, but I'm happy for the confirmation.  Does the player controlling Blade get to control the Blade Battallion or the player controlling Citizen Dawn get an army of citizens?

RA
Rabit
2013-08-18 22:49 UTC
#51

I haven't seen Blade, myself, so maybe someone else can confirm, but I know both Dawn and Omnitron have their respective minions.

And they are an incredibly painful challenge!

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2013-08-18 22:50 UTC
#52

I got to watch part of a Baron Blade demo--yes, you get minions!  And a Living Force Field, even!

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-20 16:48 UTC
#53

Hello, I'm Luther Hendricks, and I'm one of the designers for Sentinel Tactics. We're all really excited that this project is finally public, and I especially enjoyed getting to meet, demo, and receive feedback at GenCon last week. Thanks for everyone who's been collating the information, videos, etc. To address a few specific questions:

 

Kevin G. Nunn, the other designer for Sentinel Tactics, was also the designer of Schlock Mercenary. The components we had at GenCon were the same components we've been using for playtesting the game, and when fabricating them, he reused some assets from creating Schlock Mercenary. Rest assured, essentially every visual element will change from what was shown at GenCon to match the Sentinels asthetic.

 

 

The tiles used to make the maps are modular; we completely envision players not only using the tiles provided to make their own maps, but tiles and hex maps from other games as well.

 

Both the Blade Battallion and Citizen Dawn's fellow Citizens were shown at GenCon on Saturday. There will certainly be some surprises in the abilities and powers of the villians (and heroes!), but we're certainly not rewriting the most beloved characters in the Multiverse from scratch. (If anyone's doing that, blame Christopher. :stuck_out_tongue: )

 

 

 

I'm happy to field any other questions there might be about the game. Anything we showed off at GenCon is free game; anything else I may or may not be able to answer. Cryptic obfuscation go!

 

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-20 17:04 UTC
#54

Awww man, another designer power? We just got a handle on [REDACTED] and smoke bombs.

 

Yeah I have a question that you may or may not want to answer, how did you get the game? I'm curious to know if you were looking to make a Sentinels game or if you made the game into Sentinels because you were asked to, d id you approach >G or did they approach you? 

CR
Craig
2013-08-20 17:11 UTC
#55

Since you're answering questions, I figured I'd shoot you my boyfriend's biggest issue that he kept bringing up with me.

He was able to play in the heroes vs. heroes scenario, but not the heroes vs. villains. He said that it felt like things weren't very balanced for heroes vs. heroes. Now, understandably, everything is still a work in progress. Is it intended to be balanced for that, though?

Second, he seemed concerned at the idea that some characters seemed to be only suited for play in one very specific manner. In the card game, each hero can be played with different "modes." Is this something that will be a goal for Sentinel Tactics, as well?

 

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-20 17:21 UTC
#56

Good… good… cackles maniacally

 

 

They have all SORTS of powers we can't even imagine! That's why the designers are the only difficulty 5 villains!

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-20 17:26 UTC
#57

I can't speak directly for Christopher's/Paul's motivations, of course. I was a playtester (and later developer) for Schlock Mercenary. We had played Sentinels plenty in our gaming group, so last year at GenCon, when the booth Kevin and I were working at (he as a designer, I as a demo monkey) was within duck-throwing distance of the >G booth, we couldn't resist saying hello. At some point Kevin was talking to Paul(?) about Schlock Mercenary, and >G liked the TacDice engine and was interested in seeing what else could be done with it. I had been working on an unrelated game using the engine, but when Kevin asked me to design this one with him, I jumped at the chance. 

 

Christopher/Paul/Kevin may have different memories of exactly how everything happened, but that's a general overview.

PY
Pydro
2013-08-20 17:29 UTC
#58

Just saying, if you can’t reveal stuff here, why not try the playtesting forum. :slight_smile:

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-20 17:35 UTC
#59

yes please

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-20 17:47 UTC
#60

First off, let me assure you that making sure the heroes (and villians) are 'balanced' is one of the biggest goals we're striving for in this design. Especially in a competitive game, a hero who is clearly of significantly lower power level just isn't okay. The tension come from two desires, pulling in opposite directions – the desire for perfect balance, and the desire for each hero to be unique.

We could trivially balance the heroes by making them all identical with different art, but that's obviously not acceptable. The other obstacle is that we want to have a variety of scenarios and goals, as well as a variety of powers, and so some heroes will excel more at certain things.

The basic demo scenario we exhibited on Thursday and Friday is a simple slugfest between two teams of heroes, and so heroes that excel at doing damage to moderately tough targets will be favored. The real issue here isn't any specific imbalance between characters, but that the scenario is t interesting enough. We used this as our first demonstration of the game because it was simple to learn, and the strategy was clear, so players could focus on learning the engine. Other scenarios will not just give other heroes a chance to shine, but give more types of heroes niches.

Second, he seemed concerned at the idea that some characters seemed to be only suited for play in one very specific manner. In the card game, each hero can be played with different "modes." Is this something that will be a goal for Sentinel Tactics, as well? 

 

In short: Yes.

In long: No hero is going to be the best at everything, but the intent is that each hero will have multiple roles they can fill in a team, depending on the powers they select and what they choose to do. On one team, Legacy might play the booster, using Inspiring Presence and Galvanize to improve his teammates and making sure he stays where he can see as much of the fight as possible. On another, he might use Fortitude and Heroic Interception to play the tank, protecting the more fragile members of the team. Or maybe what's needed is for Legacy of fly in with a Surge of Strength to deliver a mighty Thokk to Omnitron while the rest of the team takes care of his bots. Legacy could take on any or all of these roles over the course of a single game, depending on what the team needs at any given time.

CR
Craig
2013-08-20 17:58 UTC
#61

Thank you. I'll be sure to pass that information along tonight.

Another question, though. While the core of the game is "epic superpowered fighting," is there any thought being given to scenarios with goals other than "hit things until they're not there anymore"? Note that this isn't necessarily a request for something like that. More, it seems like a board game could actually do something like this rather well.

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-20 18:16 UTC
#62

 

We're definitely cognizant that a tactical skirmish game gives us options for goals and objectives that aren't "Make this thing run out of HPs".

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-20 18:28 UTC
#63

Thanks for answering my question, it's good to see the behind the scenes action

Next question, did you throw any ducks at them?

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-20 18:32 UTC
#64

 

I will unreservedly deny any accusations that I threw, dropped, or in any way impelled rubber ducks at ANYONE at GenCon.

AM
Amnachaidh
2013-08-20 18:45 UTC
#65

Oh goodness.  The rubber ducks were not impelled.

Were they compelled?

Can you mind control rubber ducks?

RA
Rabit
2013-08-20 19:11 UTC
#66

Nah, I hear they're immune to psychic stuff, something about not having a valid target...

PL
PlatinumWarlock
2013-08-20 19:53 UTC
#67

Things like "Save the innocent bystanders before Spite reaches them" or "Defend the president from Grand Warlord Voss's armada while he tries to set up contact with NORAD" would be really cool and very iconic.

CR
Craig
2013-08-20 21:01 UTC
#68

One thing that I'd love to see, that wasn't reflected in the prototype that I played, is the effect of a dynamic environment. Elevation and LoS are great, but part of what sets SotM apart are the stories told about "that time we fed Voss to The Kraken" or "remember when Baron Blade got stomped by a T-Rex."

I don't even know if something like that is feasible. But I hope it's there.

SP
Spiff
2013-08-20 22:16 UTC
#69

Ooh yeah, lava hexes and forest hexes and water hexes.  Nice.  I agree that the game will need to have more to it than just be a vehicle for a dice combat system.  We don't play SotM just because we like to gain/lose hp and play cards.  It's the story you're playing out with your friends.

SI
Silverleaf
2013-08-20 22:31 UTC
#70

I recommend throwing real live ducks* rather than rubber ones. With their more streamlined shape and ability to fly, they have a greatly increased range (and with sufficient training, much greater accuracy), so more of us can be in duck-throwing range of >G and similarly you can be in duck-throwing range of more non->G things. Shouting "duck!" as you launch said feathery projectile is entirely optional.

 

*I don't recommend any such thing, you monster. What were you even thinking?

RO
Ronway
2013-08-20 22:34 UTC
#71

Cursed Acolyte - Ronway

FO
Foote
2013-08-20 22:36 UTC
#72

Environment and setting I would hope are large parts of the game. I'd think those things would be tied to specific scenarios, but maybe they will be a totally separate element which would be cool. 

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-20 23:08 UTC
#73

Or even environment decks, that pull cards periodically like in Sentinels. Maybe even with their own figurines!

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-08-21 08:54 UTC
#74

How many heroes and villains will the final game have? I'm not asking for who they will be (though if you want to tell us, that would be great  :stuck_out_tongue: ), just rough numbers. Similarly, can you give us a rough idea of how many scenarios the game will come with? Are there any plans for villain vs. villain scenarios, or scenarios with more than two teams?

NI
Nielzabub
2013-08-21 08:59 UTC
#75

I think in another thread it was mentioned that current playable heroes are the F5 and Ra. I don't know about playable villains, but I know at least the good ole Baron is still in the game.

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-21 11:56 UTC
#76

 

We've officially revealed so far:

 

Legacy

Tachyon

The Wraith

Bunker

Absolute Zero

Ra

Baron Blade

Omnitron

Citizen Dawn

 

FO
Foote
2013-08-21 12:49 UTC
#77

Is it safe to assume that, given his presumed demise during the main SotM storyline, that characters such as Mr. Fixer will not make it into Tactics during its lifespan?

DP
dpt
2013-08-21 13:00 UTC
#78

Hmm?  Mr. Fixer dies?

FO
Foote
2013-08-21 13:21 UTC
#79

That is how I interpret his incap side artwork at least. I have a hard time looking at that as not a death scene, considering the characters say "The End" or something similar.

PY
Pydro
2013-08-21 14:22 UTC
#80

Then there is the issue with Golem Unity wearing Mr. Fixer's cap, but now we are getting into timey whimey stuff.

DP
dpt
2013-08-21 14:26 UTC
#81

The characters indeed say "owari", "The end", but bear in mind that (like in English) that's also what might be written at the end of a novel or a movie; so, perhaps the end of an episode or story arch, but not necessarily the final end of the character.  (Not that I know anything, and certainly he got pretty beaten up by Iron Legacy.)

LU
lutherbellhendricksv
2013-08-21 14:32 UTC
#82

 

I should clarify that I'm primarily a designer and developer; continuity and storyline aren't particularly in my wheelhouse. That being said, I don't think it's safe to assume much at this point.

JA
jagarciao
2013-08-21 15:59 UTC
#83

Do we know for sure it's his cap? I assume the RC on the cap refers to a local sports team for Rook City, so it isn't really a unique item. 

PY
Pydro
2013-08-21 16:15 UTC
#84

Do we know for sure? No. Is that the current speculation? Yes.

RA
Rabit
2013-08-23 16:57 UTC
#85

There's a little more information in The Spiel's Gen Con 2013 podcast, for those interested.

SP
Spiff
2013-08-23 17:07 UTC
#86

Listening to that now.  Christopher's enthusiasm for the project is increasing my anticipation quite a bit.  If he's that into it, it's got to be good.

BO
boxwood
2013-08-23 17:08 UTC
#87

Hearing Christopher talk always makes me more excited for something, much more excited now than I was before. I dunno what it is about him, maybe he's just high energy.

SP
Spiff
2013-08-23 17:14 UTC
#88

They mention that they've got five scenarios for the core game now and are working on a sixth one.  It's not clear whether six is the total they expect to ship with the game or if it's just how many they have now and there will be more.  Six doesn't sound like enough, if that's the final number.

FO
Foote
2013-08-23 17:17 UTC
#89

Would depend on what a "scenario" entails. If each one has multiple goals, stages, phases, branching paths choices, scenary interactions, (ect. you see where I am going) then who knows. Maybe 6 is an awesome number. Can't wait for more information to trickle down about details.

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-23 17:24 UTC
#90

Baron Blade BLEW UP the Insula Primalis volcano!?

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-23 17:38 UTC
#91

Also, stretch goals include Unity and Visionary, as well as The Organization, working in conjunction with Ambushcade. Ambushcahd. Ambuscaday? Yeah, that one.

BL
BlueHairedMeerkat
2013-08-23 17:38 UTC
#92

The core Sentinels game has four 'scenarios', though. I imagine that >G are going to give them a lot of replayability.

BO
boxwood
2013-08-23 17:39 UTC
#93

Who knew he had it in him, this also excites me for the possibility of Villain on Villain action.  Maybe even hero villain team ups.

 

Because you know Dawn wont be happy about someone blowing up her home and would try and stop it.

FO
Foote
2013-08-23 17:50 UTC
#94

Yes. I hope this is possible very much.

SP
Spiff
2013-08-23 18:09 UTC
#95

The core Sentinels game has four 'scenarios', though.

The core game had 4 villains x 2 environments = 8 scenarios, if you want to look at it like that.  Maybe 6 isn't too little, but when I think of any other game that comes with scenarios, there's often a whole booklet full of them.

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-23 18:21 UTC
#96

Yeah, if I recall, Heroscape had about 10.

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-23 18:22 UTC
#97

16 Spiff, 4 Environments.

Damnit! now I have to download another podcast to hear about Volcanos exploding

RA
Rabit
2013-08-23 18:27 UTC
#98

4 villains and 4 environments = 16 scenarios in the base set. :slightly_smiling_face:

 

So yeah, hoping for more, myself, but the fact we can create our own with a small amount of effort (unlike creating new villains / environments in SotM) does help alleviate that.

 

Edit: Ninja'd! :sunglasses:

TS
Theta_Sigma
2013-08-23 18:27 UTC
#99

Mansions of Madness only had 4 or 5 scenarios in the base game, but had multiple options for each. Does that count?

SP
Spiff
2013-08-23 18:37 UTC
#100

16 Spiff, 4 Environments.

I was told there'd be no math on this test.

PY
Pydro
2013-08-23 18:40 UTC
#101

There's a test!!!

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-23 18:47 UTC
#102

Be glad it's not an English test either, attribute your sources  :wink:

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-23 19:45 UTC
#103

Also, you don't NEED a scenario to play the game. Scenarios, in this sort of game, are set ways to play: special rules, alternate win conditions, several players vs. 1, pre-set teams, etc. You can just build your teams and play against each other without using any scenarios if you want, and there's no reason you couldn't make up your own custom scenarios.

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-25 03:43 UTC
#104

Having now had a chance to listen to the podcast I think that's not what was said, they were talking about emailing CHristopher and getting reasons that characters would do something, and that it was more a "why would" Baron Blade blow up Insula Primalis' volcano rather than a "this happens in canon".

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-25 04:18 UTC
#105

No, he said, and I quote, "The first question we asked was, "Why did Baron Blade blow up the volcano on Insula Primalis?"" Meaning that, according to the timeline given to them by Christopher, Baron Blade blew up the volcano, and he wanted to know why.

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-25 04:59 UTC
#106

Right, when they are talking about reasons that characters do stuff (both mechanically and conceptually), not neccessarily about stuff that they have done in canon. I could be wrong, but that is the impression I got.

About 19 minutes in for those who want to hear it themselves

Edit: It's "Our latest conversation started with me asking him "Why did Baron Blade blow up the volcano on Insula Primalis?""

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-25 05:05 UTC
#107

The important thing is whether it is in the game.  I want exploding volcano fights.

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-25 06:13 UTC
#108

right. "why DID he." Not "why WOULD he."

MA
Matchstickman
2013-08-25 06:27 UTC
#109

Right.

This happened in our last game, what justification can we have to add in this awesome thing?

MC
McBehrer
2013-08-25 06:31 UTC
#110

To take out/hamper Dawn?

TS
Theta_Sigma
2013-08-25 09:43 UTC
#111

Because his hatred of Legacy has extended to all super-powered beings, and Dawn's got herself an army of them?

 

Or because Dawn has an army.

AM
Amnachaidh
2013-08-25 11:21 UTC
#112

Or perhaps Dawn and the Baron were working together, until Dawn, for reasons best not described screamed "Ah, curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal"

PH
phantaskippy
2013-08-25 15:51 UTC
#113

I think he's just opportunistic, and set up a conflict between the two with some well placed comments so he could blow up the Volcano and kill Legacy.

"Oh hi Dawn, Legacy said your super powers make you look fat."