Mister Fixer Promo even possible?

I was driving today, and (as often happens when I drive for hours) my mind began to wander. I’ve been tracking the Absolute Zero House Rule/Pseudo-Promo thread (http://greaterthangames.info/forum/index.php/topic,782.0.html), and I started to think about other possible promos. It occurred to me…could Mister Fixer really ever have a promo? I mean, he’s the only character I can think of with cards that actually reference his innate power by name, so if he had a new power, it would also need to be called Strike, or Overdrive would be pretty weak. Additionally, what else could it do? I mean, it can’t really do less damage, and seeing as his whole schtick is about doing damage in unique ways, I can’t see his power doing anything BUT damage.

About the only things I can think of are something like "Deal 0 damage and " or “Deal 3-4 damage to a target and 1 to himself” (but that would just make Jack Handle too good).

Thoughts? Ideas?

I agree that the way his cards are worded changing his strike power to anything other than a damaging power would be problematic (as would changing the name) but I think there are a couple of ways to ‘keep it fresh’
Strike: Deal 1 target x damage, where x is the number of style cards in his trash
Strike: Deal 1 target x damage, where x is the number of tool cards in his hand, discard 1 tool card

etc

How about a static ability. It could be a first, a hero card that Has an always on ability. My favorite idea would be. The regular power, strike, and a static ability that said something like, “At the beginning of your turn, discard a style and draw cards until you draw a tool, discard the rest of the drawn cards. Alternately, you may discard a tool, to draw a style in the same way.”

The wording sucks, but you get the gist of it. He really needs something like this.

Well, then it would be a straight upgrade, and we can’t have that. It needs to have both a positive AND a negative, so as to make his base power an option.

Well, I think he needs one.

I really doubt any Hero other than core heroes will be seeing any promotional cards anytime in the near feature (was told by Christopher himself that they are perfectly happy with their powers) though he did say they would obviously have to make him have another power named Strike if they did ever decide to do so. Also since both cards will never be in play together that it wouldn’t cause any problems having him have another innate power called Strike.

In all honestly there isn’t really much you can do with Mr. Fixer other than a damaging power considering it would make pretty much all styles and tools next to useless.

maybe he could do something like stop everyone from playing until they get higher paychecks.

Or end an inning.

The “straight upgrade” thing might be a problem, because its hard to make fixer do any worse than he already does in terms of damage, and him hitting himself doesn’t really seem thematic. That said, smilinbrax is probably right that he could use one…

It might not be too eloquent, but you could easily word things in such a way that his deck would still work if you wanted to adjust his power. For example:

Double Strike: Discard 2 cards to deal 1 target 1 melee damage and 1 melee damage. Counts as a “Strike” power.

Combo Strike: Deal 1 target 1 melee damage and return any style cards in play to your hand. You may play a different style card. You may not play cards on your next play phase. Counts as a “Strike” power.

If you wanted to go a different direction, you could have a split fixer. Maybe something like:

Master of Styles: You may have 2 styles in play but may not play Tool cards.
Power: Strike. Deal 1 target 1 Melee Damage.
Power: Style Switch: Destroy all Style cards and flip this card. You may then play a tool card.
/
Master Mechanic: You may have 2 tools in play but may not play Style cards.
Power: Strike. Deal 1 target 1 melee damage.
Power Style Switch: Destroy all tool cards and flip this card. You may then play a style card.

^^ this would kind of ruin Harmony, but thems the breaks I guess.

I still don’t see why everyone keeps complaining about his damage output. Just about all of his cards buff his damage, and with irreducible and multiple targets he can pack a wallop. The ability to deal 2 targets 4 damage each, or 3 irreducible each, as an innate power is pretty sweet. And then you add his one-shots that do even more damage, plus Bloody Knuckles that increases that by 2, and that’s more than just about any other hero, besides AZ and maybe Tempest’s one-shots. Still, even with localized hurricane, 2 targets 3 damage as a power isn’t as good as 2 targets 4. Then his most damaging one-shot – 1 target 5 damage – isn’t as good as 2 targets 5 damage, which is what charge does with the right setup of cards.

It’s about damage economics, McBehrer. I dunno if I’ll get to one shots right now, that might have to be a different post. But let’s look at the power phase.

To get the setup you mentioned he needs 1. Dual Crowbars, 2. Harmony, 3, Grease Monkey Fist. So he needs 3 cards. 3 turns of setup if you’re lucky. With Meditation he can search for GMF and get it relatively easily. But he has no way to find Harmony or Dual Crowbars. He is also quite vulnerable to stuff destruction, as losing any of those cards reduces his effectiveness by quite a bit.

In the case of Tempest, you mentioned only one card. What can he do with 3 cards? Maybe he’s got Localized Hurricaine, Otherworldly resilience (offset the penalty) and Gene-bound Shackles. Now we’re being more fair. So, assuming he targets the villain at least once, which is likely, he is doing 5 + 3 damage, in terms of strictly damage, equal to Fixers 4/4, AND he also gets to draw 2 cards which you neglected to mention earlier.

Haka can achieve a nice 3 card result as well. Tahia, Punish the Weak, and Savage Mana. Punish the Weak messes with the calculations a bit, but it shouldnt be too hard to use this power to make Haka deal 4 damage and 4 damage. Equal to Fixer again, and he can prevent whatever he kills from coming back.

Young Legacy 3 card combo: Inspirational Presence, Legacy Ring, Motivational Charge. Able to belt out 7 damage per turn (4 damage and 3 damage) AND give everyone else a +1 boost (included her +1 already in the 7 damage) AND heal every hero for 1 hp.

My point here is that there are many heroes that can do similar things with 3 cards, making fixer by no means unique, and they also tend to get additional bonuses on top of what Fixer can do, even with his “ultimate” setup.

Yeah, but he’s fun to play. You min-maxers, sheesh.

Well, I guess that’s the thing. I think they’re bringing it up because they think he’s not.

I think it has more to do with people not understanding why he shouldn’t deal more damage than he does. He’s a hero, after all. Why is it that in one post people will say “S/He can do just as much as the other heroes,” but after someone presents information to the contrary there is an immediate response of “Oh those silly min/maxers, they just can’t appreciate the subtleties of that character’s play style.”? I don’t think it’s a matter of min/maxing. I think it has more to do with “Why is this character that I love on a thematic level not on par with the mechanics of these other heroes I’m so fond of?”

Fixer can throw down against a lot of villains. I like using him, and I think he can be a lot of fun. I also get hosed a lot more when I play him and Absolute Zero. This is a game about teamwork, and taking down baddies with your buddies. It’s about telling stories and laughing when Citizen Dawn gets taken down by the mighty Kraken when she’s about to wipe out your party and there is a Hostage Situation on the field that made you think all hope was lost just moments before. I think Fixer is a great character, but why shouldn’t he be able to deal as much innate damage of the other heroes? Because he can buff himself? Tell that to Legacy, Haka, or Ra.

Must we conditionalize and quantify each others’ love of this great game? Is it such a power hungry and coldly calculating thing to criticize aspects of Sentinels we feel are imbalanced or underwhelming? Why not be critical of something we want to grow and improve and be the best it can be?

Well spoken. I’d love to see someone come up with alternate versions of his cards which could be sleeved over the current cards. Then we could playtest it and see if it improves him as a hero overall.

My min-max dig was mostly a reaction to how complaints about Mr. Fixer seem so similar to the complaints you see on WoW forums when rogues feel they’re doing less dps than warlocks (or vice versa). It begins to feel like the people complaining only see that one aspect of the game, how much of that single number (damage) is being output per second, and nothing else matters.

However, you’re absolutely right of course, that it’s perfectly fine to love 95% of a game and still want to discuss how to improve the remaining 5%. Consider my dig retracted.

Much appreciated. In other news, I love what you’re doing with your scenario challenges. My friends and I have already gone through three or four of them and have been quite entertained by every single one! Also, your randomizer always manages to give us a new perspective on hero teams and villain/environment combinations!

On the Fixer Promo topic, is there any other interpretation one could use for the word “Strike” other than physically striking an opponent? I think we could find a few ideas for an alternate Strike power there.

Well, we already made an economic strike and a baseball strike joke…
strike a pose? strike a chord? (more Argent’s kind of thing, but still) strike up the band? strike an item from a list?

well, you’ve already seen my fix which is not about min/maxing damage as much as helping him live up to his potential. I want a style and a tool out most rounds because that’s how he works. it may not be exactly what I need but at least he’s doing what he’s supposed to. With the number of equipment and ongoing hosers in the game, he is very brittle. I am also a believer that teamwork means I contribute, not just take. I see absolute zero and a gimp draw Mr. fixer as drains on the team. And the team has to protect them more until they get going. it’s even worse with the X mechanic. Before, everyone lost their equipment or ongoings, now players end up sacrificing their stuff so AZ or Fixer can be playable and not just watch on the sidelines.

When he works, Mr. Fixer is great, He just seems to not work as often as others. And part of that is his strike power. AZ can only punch himself in the nuts so you will almost always choose the draw 2 cards over his power. I have found Mr. Fixer tends to stay hamstrung as there will often be a villain card that needs just one more damage. In the short term you solve a problem, but are slowing yourself down in the long term. I like him because I was a blue/white combo monkey when playing Magic. However combo monkeys find ways to get their combos out better than Mr. Fixer does currently.

If someone really loved Fixer on a thematic level then they should be more than fine with him being “less” than the other heroes mechanically.

Mister Fixer is an ordinary human being. He has no special powers, and he has no special training other than his kung-fu(ish) skills and sheer determination. More to the point, he is an elderly human being; most of what I just said about Fixer applies to Wraith and Expat as well, but at least the girls are in their prime. Wraith also has the advantage of technology; where Fixer is literally using whatever tools he has handy, many of which are essentially variations primitive sticks made of metal instead of wood, Wraith comes pre-prepared with targeting computers, explosives, and stun guns. Speaking of guns, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to see why Expat usually outpaces Fixer in damage output either. “Bringing a knife to a gun fight” takes on new meaning when most of the guns in question are bazookas and superpowers.

But that’s all he has (well, that and occasionally a Tire Iron). And sometimes, that’s enough. Not all heroes are super.

You want a Mister Fixer promo? Attach it to the inevitable time-travel set and show us what he was like back when he was as young as the other (non-Haka) heroes are now.

I have actually come up with a concept (as I originally stated in the Absolute Zero thread) allowing characters to be played differently without the need for a promo card (but would be just as simple to distribute as a promo character). Thus far, I’ve only come up with concepts for Tachyon, Mister Fixer, and Absolute Zero (though Absolute Zero may have been made overpowered and require a bit more tweaking). I plan on testing this out during Comic Carnival meetup and GenCon, for any interested.

@vyolynce

Mr. Fixer is designed to be played as the archetypal character who makes do with what is around him As a weapon. Think old Jackie Chan movies. The problem is that there are always tools for Jackie Chan in the movies, but Mr. fixer does not play as well as that. As for him being old, doesn’t that make him more like the martial arts master who is still more powerful than the student because of his experience?

A Mr. Fixer Jackie Chan movie would be him facing off against bad guys in a mostly empty warehouse, dodging around and finding a useful tool every five minutes or so. He’d occasionally punch a guy in the face but rarely KO them, and would occasionally change up his style. It would be a disjointed combat and sad to see.

Okay thought of a better example as my Jackie Chan one made little sense.

He is supposed to be the tool using martial arts dude but plays more like inspector Cluseau (sp?). “where’s my tool box?” “oh there it is.” “let’s see, what’s this, a jack handle? Too bad there’s only one enemy in play.” “I know there’s a pipe wrench in here somewhere”

Maybe he is getting old and senile.

He’s not more powerful; he’s more skilled and knows how to better utilize his weakened strike capacity to perhaps get better results than he otherwise should, but in terms of raw output he is outclassed by younger/stronger bodies.

Not having a “tutor” is weird, I’ll admit.

Thematics and Mechanics are two very different things. I love Absolute Zero as a character, but find his delicate nature really slows down games and reduces his ability to effectively contribute in a game. The same goes for Fixer and his Styles/Tools. Do the mechanics represent a real life distribution of damage? Does Expatriette’s Shotgun really hurt more than Young Legacy’s Atomic Glare, which is stronger than Ra, God of the Sun’s Pyre attack? A Gun Power can deal more innate damage than any of Ra’s Powers (except, of course, for the four Psychic damage he does to himself with Solar Flare), Powers which represent him harnessing the Sun that he is the patron deity of.

Let’s look at what one damage represents in Sentinels. Ra’s Flame Spike deals one Fire damage to a target, and the Blade Battalion does one Melee damage for each member in the team (5HP=5 members). This means that Fixer’s damage is equivalent simultaneously to a single Blade Battalion Minion, a gout of flame from the mighty God of the Sun, Tachyon punching someone while speeding around a room with a Nimble Strike, the third Grenade on Bunker’s Grenade Launcher, Absolute Zero burning his absolute zero temperature body with the blinding heat of everyday life Thermodynamics, the one Melee damage from Citizen Blood, and a zap from The Wraith’s Stun Bolt or one of her Throwing Knives. Also the one Projectile damage that represents Police Backup shooting something with guns.

I personally find that Mr. Fixer, the only hero (until EE Fanatic’s Divine Sacrifice) capable of dealing or allowing other heroes to deal Irreducible damage, would not mechanically be conveyed as a weakened elderly man. His cards seem to represent otherwise, considering the damage he can put out with tools and styles (which deal damage equal to or above anything from minions to Gene-Bound aliens to military weaponry to civilian weaponry to mystical flames from the God of the Sun). I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t really see how one Melee damage compared to two would effectively convey him as an elderly hero that is weaker than the others. It just seems to slow him down more, putting him on par with Absolute Zero (a young man in a very expensive containment suit that allows him to rip chunks out of himself to take on baddies with Cold damage equal to temperatures that are unheard of in nature). While age could be an explanation for the one Melee damage, I would find it a very disappointing and inconsistent one.

Hmm, ya know, I wanted to dispute that, seeing as AZ is actually 44, and based on his backstory, I didn’t really think of him as “young”. However, looking at the ages of many of the Sentinels… it puts him above most of the “normal” heroes, but well below Haka, Tempest, and maybe Fanatic (not sure how long she’s been around). I imagine Mister Fixer is probably older, but we don’t know atm.

Absolute Zero: 44
Bunker: 28
Expatriette: No ages for Rook City heroes
Fanatic: Unknown
Haka: Unknown
Legacy: 47
Mister Fixer: No ages for Rook City heroes
Ra: 43
Tachyon: 38
Tempest: 136
Visionary: 17
Wraith: 23

Strike
Power: Deal 1 target 1 damage.
You may discard cards from your hand to increase this damage by 1 per card discarded.

Very true, broccoli. I suppose I should clarify by saying younger man than Mr. Fixer. Either way, if you’re gonna be a hero in the mean streets of Rook City, you can’t be worrying about brittle hips and poor eyesight. At least, not enough that it can’t be offset by being awesome.

What Mr Fixer needs, I think, is something that allows him to draw more quickly. He has lots of great combos, the problem is, he has a 40 card deck and combats rarely last 40 turns. If I was to gut his deck, I would add a few “draw a card” texts for some of his his styles, or maybe even for harmony, to give it a reason to be in play when his set up is not complete. Literally give it a ‘When Mr. Fixer does not have both a style and an equipment in play, draw an extra card during your draw phase.’
The toolbox is an interesting card with an interesting mechanic- one I replicated in a different sense for a custom character- but it’s less useful on the whole than a lot of cards that say ‘do this thing, and draw a card’
Granted, it’s useful because it’s a repeatable trick, but for some reason, it feels less useful to me than it should.

Now, I love Mr. Fixer, especially when he gets his sweet combos going. It’s just hard to get them going, it feels like.

Weird, my problem with Mr. Fixer is rarely drawing cards. Then again, I use Toolbox a lot. What I would really like for him is a way to PLAY more cards, in particular, something that would let him swap both his style and tool on the same turn. That would be awesome. However, we come back to that same problem. If he gets a power that lets him do that (play both a style and a tool), how will he deal damage?

Hmm, then we come back to that same problem of “It’s strictly better than his base power.” Maybe if it was

Strike
Power: Discard any number of cards. Deal X damage to 1 target where X is the number of cards discarded.

Then you could still discard 0 cards once you have some buffs out, but you could also discard a ton when you needed it. Hmmm, I really like that actually.

Mr. Fixer is 85.

Expatriette is 22.

Wow, he looks AWESOME for 85. Go old kung-fu masters!

(man, I really miss Kung Fu Theater on Saturday mornings…)

Okay, then I expect he is experienced enough to change his stance more often then he tends to.
While I get that tools go back to hand because they are in his tool box, wouldn’t it have made more sense for stances to instead. The way it plays now, he can have some difficulty changing his fighting style, but he has plenty of tools (depending on the draw).

I don’t know - you know how those old folks get set in their ways…