Suggestion for future printings: use more icons

I love the game, and have a suggestion for future printings: I think the readability of the cards can be improved with the use of more icons to stand in for text that tends to be repeated often. In the same way that Magic: the Gathering cards eventually added the “tap” symbol rather than typing out the word “tap” all the time, many cards can be made less verbose with icons. Examples:

1. Use an icon to indicate the start/end of each of the hero/villain/environment turns. So for example, a card that currently reads “at the start of the villain turn play a card” can be made to read “[SV] Play a card”, with "[SV] being the icon for the start of the villain turn. When you’ve got lots of cards on the table and you’re scanning them quickly to find all the “start of the villain turn” effects, this would make them easier to pick out, especially if, say, all the start icons were some shade of green and all the end icons were some shade of blue. That way when the villain turn starts, you just scan all the cards on the table for a green “S” icon and you’re good to go.

2. Use an icon to substitute for “the hero with the highest hp” and “the hero with the lowest hp”. Possibly an upward- or downward-facing arrow with an “H”, “V”, or “E” inside the arrow to indicate what kind of target it’s referring to (possibly use a “*” to indicate any target). So for example, text that currently says “Baron Blade deals 2 fire damage to the hero target with the highest hp” could be reduced to “Baron Blade deals 2 [H-uparrow] fire damage”. Much more concise.

3. Use an icon to indicate each damage type. So text that currently says “this card deals 3 toxic damage” would simply read “this card deals 3 [T]”.

Combine all three, and you’ve got a card that used to say (as a made-up example): “At the start of the villain turn, Baron Blade deals 3 toxic damage to the hero with the highest hp and 1 fire damage to the hero with the lowest hp” is transmogrified into “[SV] Baron Blade deals 3 [T] [H-uparrow] and 1 [F] to [H-downarrow]”, substituting my bracketed text with the actual icons themselves. I think the shortened version is just as understandable and is much more readable, especially when you’re quickly scanning a table full of various cards.

I think it’s really interesting to see the split among people who would prefer icons and those who were happy they didn’t have to learn a new set of symbols. I personally lean towards more text, but I do see what you mean about scanning a table full of cards. I don’t think either one in inherently better. I think it depends on your gaming preference and Experience.
I also think it can be hard to find that design balance between simplifying text with a few symbols and needing a glossary to decipher what the cards mean

I think if something like this happened I’d hope to see it very limited. End of Turn and Beginning of Turn are really the only ones I could justify actually needing it.

I disagree; the powers are simple enough that symbols would be unnecessary.

The powers are simple, but they’re very verbose. Because there’s nothing easy for your eyes to pick out, you’ve basically got to re-read the full text on each card on the table (especially bad for minion-heavy villains like Voss) each round until you’ve memorized each one. I’m surprised that others seem to prefer all that text, but I can see it must be a preference thing.

It’s an interesting idea. I think it would actually be helpful if ‘start of villain turn’ and ‘end of villain turn’ text were a different color from the rest of the card. The original poster is right, it’d make scanning the villain’s popcorn much quicker.

Interesting, I didn’t realize it was really a problem for anyone. We read the cards fully when they first some out, and then just scan through the cards quickly after that. It only takes a couple seconds unless you have an outrageous number of cards out.

I am of the same mind, I never noticed there was a problem with reviewing the cards at the start/end of each Villain and Environment turns.Especially if there is one person that handles all those phases (its usually me ).

Icons for start and end seem like they’d be useful. Anything beyond that would be too much, I think.

I like the idea of icons only if they are intuitive. If anyone can, for the first time playing, look at a card containing said icons and immediately know what they mean without having to check any reference material, then it would be great, it would clean up text clutter, would quickly draw attention to the important areas quicker, and would make the effects of the card much simpler to comprehend. However, making an intuitive icon set even for trivial operations is a very difficult operation, and most attempts would likely be the opposite.

I think it’s better without symbols. It makes it easier to get new players, as they can just read what the card it suppose to do. Instead of reading it, then finding the symbol in the book, and reading what it does. Though I can see the benefit of symbols for veteran players.

That’s my point exactly. In nearly all cases, icons will confuse people who haven’t memorized them, which make them unintuitive. The reason most symbols will be unintuitive is because trying to come up with some icon and expeciting anyone to know exactly what it represents is nearly impossible. In fact, I can’t think of a single icon to replace any common text that someone can look at an know exactly what it means without looking it up at least once. Now, if that could be done, it would be great. But I doubt it’s anywhere remotely possible to create such an intuitive icon set. I would say it’s impossible, but such a phrase is almost never true.

A little flame for fire damage. That’s the only one I can think of.

Just want to throw my two cents out there. I personally prefer text over icons. Personally there aren’t too many games that actually benefit to icons, unless it is in the top corner and is referenced in other cards that state “cards of [type] deal x damage” which is best for games that have a massive amount of cards that any character can use. For sentinels since each character has their own decks and thus own powers, it is fairly easy to know “oh i’m playing Bunker so i’ll do a lot of projectile damage and some fire” or Ra where it is all fire all the time, unless you throw the staff of Ra of course.

This would require a reprint on a set that I already own a copy of. I am against it.

This mirrors my feelings EXACTLY!

I have to say, I LOVE this discussion. Adam, Paul, and I went through a very similar discussion early on in the development process of the game, and we ultimately decided against icons (with the exception of Hero icons used for the Nemesis rule). We made this decision, because we wanted the game to be very accessible, even to non-gamer sorts. I play plenty of games rife with icons and keywords (another thing we avoided) and I don’t mind them at all. I totally understand why they exist, and I think, when used well, they are a good thing. However, there are plenty of fans of this game for whom this is their first foray into tabletop gaming. We knew this would be the case because the comic-book heroes theme draws from outside the normal gaming circle - in fact, many die-hard tabletop gamers are driven away by the theme as they associate it with games made to hit a certain marketing point: many will disagree with me, but I, personally, do not like ANY of the large established comic-book company’s board or card games. I find them all awful. Thus, this game was created.

Anyway! We decided against icons, which did make the cards rather full of text. We felt when we made the decision, and still feel, that making it so the rulebook is referenced as little as possible is best, and that means putting the bulk of the rules on the cards themselves. If this is a hindrance to some, so be it. That was not our intention, and we apologize. But we still go through this same set of thoughts whenever designing new cards. Yes, icons would make things considerably more concise. It is a constant struggle. So! As I started this long post with, I am THRILLED to see people going back and forth on this exact issue. We do the same thing all the time over here.

And for the TL:DR crowd? I love this forum. You guys are great.

Yes, boo hiss on symbols. I’m all about text based.

Another one for the text>symbols camp here.

One thing that I could see working would be moving the text around the card like how some games have symbols… for example, the hit points are in the top right and then the damage amount and type could be below that, then text for the more complicated mechanics (as in Blood, Sweat and Tears). That sort of thing to make scanning the table easier. But then again, until I tried it, I don’t know if it would actually be any easier.

Why would it require a reprint? The cards wouldn’t do anything differently.

Hedge

Along these lines, I like that I don’t need the rule book to play. In fact, I keep forgetting to include the nemeses rules exactly because I have the habit, I think, of assuming that all of the rules are in front of me as I play.

I prefer text-based cards, however some icons to identify START and END turn action will be useful.

I’ve translated the game in italian, and put the card with it’s translation inside card sleeves.
In the translated text, I’ve used a different color marker to identify some keywords like POWER (violet), START of the turn (green), END of the turn (red).

It’s useful mainly for villain and environment cards.

red/green is a tough combo for folks who are color blind.

Uhm… you’re right.

Maybe a icons/color combination?
Like a “green play” icon for “start of the turn” and a “red stop” icon for “end of the turn”…

This is my first post, and I’m making it from my phone. That’s dedication!

I first played SOTM at PAX. Me and my mate (both from .au) played a game with Alex leading, with Ra, Legacy, Wraith, and Tachyon vs Voss. Super game, would have been an instant buy, but i hadnt seen the rest of the show, and needed to know what else to spend money on. So it was the next day. Shelled out for some nice dice to use as markers, too.

I agree with others that it’s nice to have the full text, so newbies can know the rules more easily. For managing start vs end of turn actions, I’ve been placing the villain cards in 3 distinct vertical positions depending on their actions. Top row for start of turn, bottom row for end of turn, and in between for both. they still run left to right in order of their play, with no two cards over lapping vertically. I try to do the same for hero cards. This solution does tend to take up a bit more table space, but it’s effective.

The part where I have trouble keeping track is with damage modifiers, and I think an icon system could work well here. I’m thinking along the right hand edge of the card (below the hp for cards that have hp) an icon of a shield for cards that reduce incoming damage to themselves or their allies, and a comic explosion or impact icon (something like the shape that minions cards hp value is inside, though obviously different enough to not be confused) for cards that increase damage done by itself or allies.
This would enable quicker reading of the board when calculating damage - an easy way to make sure that you dont miss any cards. Even when playing a game by myself, I find myself constantly forgetting to include bunker’s armor plating, or legacy’s inspiring presence.

These icons wouldn’t be placed instead of text, but would merely be a quick visual indicator of cards that you need to remember to read. As it is, I’m considering appropriating markers from some other game to help jog my memory.

On a slightly different note - I’d highly suggest considering changing the packaging for the next edition or reprint. The box is fine as it ships, but once open, its a bit ungainly. I was excited when i bought it, and unwrapped all the cards in my hotel room. After the plane trip home, all the decks were understandably jumbled. Keeping the decks in order is simple with rubber bands, but that extra thickness means they dont fit in the box very well. In my mind, the ideal solution, without going to the expense of getting plastic inserts molded, would be to have the box a suitable shape in which the cards could stand up ( like the trivial pursuit question boxes). Make this box slightly too big, and include slightly larger than standard size cards to use to seperate the decks. Optionally, this larger card could actually be the hero and villain cards. There wouldnt be extraneous packaging, so you could still fit just as many in your shipping containers or whatever.
The option exists for your first expansion to come in a box like this, big enough to fit the original game (and possibly any and all future expansions)

Speaking of, and way off topic - is there a roadmap plan for expansions? The game is superb, but I find myself wishing for at least some more environments, plus an extra villain or two. more heroes is an obvious path, though i expect much harder to design and balance.

Incidentally, the auto-correction that I’ve had to fix had been hilarious. Apparently the game I played at pax was 4 stalwart heroes battling the nefarious Visa. Whether that was over a debt dispute or an issue bringing their family into the country, I can’t say.

ax0r, we do have definite plans for expansions, the first coming out ideally in the spring of next year. Poke around on the forums a bit more and you’ll find a lot regarding the first, but we do have the first four expansions already written, with bits of possible others as well. It’s hard to contain the excitement I have for all of it and not just tell everyone everything about it… In addition to expansion, we plan on making a storage solution available as soon as possible. We wanted to debut with a nice big box and a plastic insert to keep it all straight, but that would have upped the retail price considerably, and in the interest of making the game affordable, you have the box you see before you now.
As for damage modifiers, I’ve had a few things in mind, so keep an eye out for that also.

I use colored glass beads for markers. If a card increases damage, it gets a red bead. If it reduces damage it gets a green one, etc. If Wraith has built up her Stealth to 4 points, she gets four beads on top of her card. That way when you’re scanning the table to see how much damage you do, you can take your base damage, see the red bead that Legacy gives you, the red bead that the Obsidian Field gives you, and the green bead that reduces damage to the villain, and arrive at a total.

I’d like the text to remain with the addition of a few icons that others have mentioned - specifically this is what I’d like to see:

A damage type icon that could include the amount of damage or a question mark if it were variable and you needed to refer to the text.
An immunity or resistance to damage type icon (it could be the previous icon with a shield around it). Use the infinity symbol for full immunity.
A start/end of turn icon.

On the one hand that sounds awesome, but on the other hand it would fundamentally change how I play the game. When Legacy Bolsters Allies, I want to be reminded by ‘Legacy’ (or as ‘Legacy’ remind) of the Bolstering properties of the character… like in a tabletop RPG when a character has a similar spell going on that person provides verbal cues (outside of ‘role-playing’) to ensure that everyone knows about her buff. I really like that sort of social/table-talk aspect of the game.

I think avoid any colour-based differentiation to avoid making things difficult for those who are colour blind.

OK, so everyone hated these ideas when I first raised them, and I admit that I may have gone a little overboard in suggesting that nearly everything on the card be converted into an icon. But the one thing that I have consistently wished were on the cards, to the point that I’ve almost considered taking a sharpie and adding it myself, is some indicator showing me what I need to pay attention to at the beginning and/or end of a given phase. Even if there were just a colored dot in front of a sentence I need to read at the beginning of a phase and a differently colored dot for sentences that take place at the end of a phase, that kind of visual clue just seems so helpful when you’re scanning across a table full of cards. The number of villains, environments, and heroes is just going to grow, with increasingly complex rules on each card, and if you’ve got to re-read each one to see what you need to pay attention to as you slog through a gazillion fowl cards (or whatever), having visual sign posts like this seems like an easy improvement.

Personally, I still think that substituting the a compact “SV” in place of the verbose “at the start of the villain turn” is an improvement and will not only improve readability but also save space on the cards, but maybe (probably) that’s just me.

Does everyone else still hate the idea of these start/end indicators on cards, if you forget the rest of my initial ideas about icons for every fool thing in the game? If something like this were to be instituted, now would be the time.

Actually, I would almost like something akin to how the new villains are done with separate sections for start of game, villain game play, and villain advanced mode.

This.

With some way for color-blind people to know which phase is which.

There’s a reason why icons are popular in games (when they are done well): They make the game easier to play and understand.

I think it’s a good idea, Spiff. Arenson9 is also correct that the solution needs to be more than color-based, though, as there are a not-insignificant number of people who are color blind.

I agree with arenson9 too. Symbols based will be great. I’m thinking of some mathy symbols like V^, Vv, H^, Hv, E^, Ev, just to replace the verbose, and maybe free up space to make the font larger.