Hey, everyone. What can I do for you?

Thanks for sticking with us. We've been so busy, and it just gets more and more so all the time. But I am once again around and online, and eager to be a feature of the forum once again. Not sure where the best place to post this thread was, so I just tossed it in here. 

So, this is a great place to let me know what I can do and what we can do to make this place the best it can be for you. We're working on making a new site (have been for months and months and months!) but that'll always be a lower priority than making games, as we're game people more than we are website people. But! Until we do someday get that new website, we can still make sure that this place is a worthwhile spot for all of you and all of us! So, speak up, let me know, and know that you will be heard.

Oh, and thanks for always saving the Multiverse. It seems to get into so much trouble. It's great to have you all around to take care of it.

-Christopher

I don't know if this is appropriate but you can "do for me" a new Kickstarter update. Some people thought this month's was lacking because you all weren't here and it was said another one was oging to be posted you got back, it's almost the end of the month so I don't know if it's worth it but it might mollify some people.

Also, cupcakes.

Cupcakes aside, is it better to throw together a Kickstarter update next week that is missing info that we're supposed to get from China by the end of the month, or wait until the regularly scheduled update that will happen the first week of April?

Genuinely curious - I don't know that another update saying, "We're still waiting to hear back on a couple things" is going to make any feel any better, regardless of how true it is.

But I am trying to do a better job of both listening AND talking here, so if it'll help, I'll gladly say as much.

No matter how much information you have, personally I feel it is always better to be thorough. I think a lot of people would appreciate an update that said something like, "Hey guys. We are waiting on this and this from these people, and we'll let you know when we hear from them." When there isn't an update, people slowly get their hopes up that there is good news, and if there isn't, then they have higher to fall.

In general, I support waiting until you have full details before explaining what's going wrong.  But if you are going to miss a deadline, I'd much prefer to hear about it [i]before[/i] the deadline than after, even if the before message is "We're going to be late, and we're still figuring out why.  In a month we'll be able to tell you what went wrong."

I, personally, am very curious about the redesign that delayed Spirit Island. The way it was described made it sound like a fairly sweeping change, but it couldn't have required significant playtesting, which puts me at a bit of a loss as to what it could have been.

Also, I think that you guys need to get Craig (or whomever is doing the Kickstarter updates) a new cell phone data plan, as his apparently can't support more than seven pictures.

[quote="Spirit Island Kickstarter, December update"] Hey, everyone!

It's the first Tuesday of the month, and you know what that means!

There's been a really huge development. The factory is getting us samples! Apparently we really shocked them with the scope of this project, and they've been scrambling to get something great put together.

So we should should be receiving those here in the office soon. As soon as we get them, I'll take so many pictures to show you that it'll require a "you might not want to do this on your cell phone data plan" warning. [/quote]

More seriously, while I know that there is no way to make the delays go faster without compromising quality, and it wouldn't be practical to add more content like you did to OblivAeon, the one way you could apologize would be to post more content previews.  You never did do more than a paragraph on Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares, Shadows Flicker like Flames, Surge of Rampant Growth, or Thunderspeaker.

One of the main selling points of Spirit Island (to me, at least) is the beautiful art, but the last time any image with a color other than white, brown, or gray was added to the Kickstarter page was 10 days short of half a year ago.

I only ever want one thing from you, Christopher, and that’s for you to talk about Prime War some more =)

I, personally, am very curious about the redesign that delayed Spirit Island. The way it was described made it sound like a fairly sweeping change, but it couldn't have required significant playtesting, which puts me at a bit of a loss as to what it could have been.

It wasn't a game function redesign so much as it was a card layout and wording rework. I have a "specificity of language" penchant that I realized was not applied to Spirit Island game text, so we had to take a step back and figure out what the format of card wording should be, and then reapply it across the board. Also, there were a bunch of icons that needing updating.

You never did do more than a paragraph on Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares, Shadows Flicker like Flames, Surge of Rampant Growth, or Thunderspeaker.

One of the main selling points of Spirit Island (to me, at least) is the beautiful art, but the last time any image with a color other than white, brown, or gray was added to the Kickstarter page was 10 days short of half a year ago.

Very fair points. Those things are out of my hands, but my hands can poke the people who can post such things! I'll send some messages now to make sure that the Spirit Island update for the first week of April is more robust.

I only ever want one thing from you, Christopher, and that's for you to talk about Prime War some more =)

I definitely need to do a big Prime War post some time soon. Just need to be in the right place for it. But it will happen! It's been more and more on my mind lately.  C:

I’ll come in to say that I think things have gotten way more interesting here now that The Letters Page is happening. Thanks for telling your stories, and keep it up!

Hmm, maybe Eric could be prevailed on to do another of those introduction posts for one of the spirits for Spirit Island mentioned above? That would add a bunch of color.

I know this kind of thing is low on the "To Do" list for you guys since you've got so many cakes in the oven so to speak, but I was just wondering if anything was being done for those of us who sent in e-mails refering to the problems some of us had with the Foil Hero packs. I know I personally had a few problems with my item when it arrived and so I sent in an e-mail to you guys, but I haven't heard anything back...

Whoa! OH no! If you've had problems with the Foil Hero Cards, you DEFINITELY should have heard back from us by now!

Shoot an e-mail to Craig, Paul, and I - just to make sure we get it. Craig@greaterthangames.com, Paul@greaterthangames.com, and Christopher@greaterthangames.com.

I'm very sorry to hear that you hear back from us on that yet.

As to Kickstarter updates, I'm one of those people who would much rather get an update that says "we have no real news, but we're still working on it and we're not dead," than no update at all.

Lack of communication is my biggest bugbear with KS projects in general.I just want to know what's going on and that the creator still cares about it and hasn't just swanned off to the Bahamas with my hard-earned pledge money. Seriously, even knowing that there's nothing to tell makes me so much happier about the whole thing.

I also like estimates of when I will get my stuff, even if those estimates are revised a hundred times. I don't mind at all if something's late as long as I know why, what you're doing about it, and have a rough idea how long it might take.

Just let me know you haven't forgotten me, right?

I get that. It's a fair point. We definitely haven't run off with anyone's money, but I totally understand wanting to know what's going on.

I don't want you to have a big bugbear. He's mean.


I am a scare.

The "1st Tuesday of the month, rain or shine" updates are pretty good, as far as regular communication goes.  Barring Gencon, and the one time when the update didn't post properly, and it wasn't noticed until it was pointed out.  Which does bring up one thing - while the monthly updates are great, the impression I get from the Spirit Island kickstarter page is that those updates are the only attention paid to the page.  Since the start of 2017 there have been 17 posts in the main comment stream.  6 of those are questions aimed at you guys, and only one response was ever made.  One of the questions could have recieved a personal reponse, but the lack of a public acknowledgement lends itself to the general air of neglect.  I obviously don't expect you to be checking the thread every day, especially considering how slow it is.  But, well, look through the comments from mid last year onwards, and picture what they look like to a nervous backer.

To be blunt, When an update was made saying there was going to be an update in the middle of the month, I much rather have an update saying hey we are waiting to hear back from China and we have to delay the promise update until April than no response at all. Some people may disagree in the comments on kickstarter but lack of communication is more frustrating than a quick status update. I feel better after reading your post than I have all week.

Also I agree with a couple above posts. An update on Prime war would be great.

Good to know. And Arcanist Lupus, that's a very good point about Kickstarter comments. It may surprise you to learn that I'm not in charge of the day-to-day comments and messages on Kickstarter, but I will talk with those involved in those and figure out a good way to make sure that they're getting regular attention, even if that means it does have to go back to being my job.

In relation to Kickstarter updates: I feel like there's content you guys could be showing off in some of the monthly Kickstarter updates for those filler months where you don't have as much news to talk about.

Apologies for the hyperbole, but the last two months of updates effectively amounted to "Hey guys, we're waiting for Chinese New Year to wrap up, so nothing to talk about this month," followed by, "Hey guys, most of us are out of town, so nothing to talk about this month." 

For example, with OblivAeon, you could probably show off a card or two from hero decks (even with a conditional that these are not necessarily final) to give a sampling on how they'll play and what you were trying to get to. If you did one or two heroes a month, that would give you six months of content and give people something to look forward to each month. Compare this to Peter C's Designer Diaries on Dracula's Feast for what I'm trying to get at.

All that aside, seeing you actively participating on the forums again is a GREAT start, and glad to have you around again. :)

I think this, and possibly an update on the collector case. 

Show something visual, with colours, that non-playtesters (and maybe even playtesters) have yet to see. 

Ah, will do! Once I'm off of work and home, I'll write something up and send it off to each of those addresses. Thanks for taking the time to pop in and lend an ear, Christopher.

Oh, and thanks to you and Adam again for such a great podcast! I love all the backstory and lore you guys give us. Personal favorites so far have been the Expat and Baron Blade episodes. And just thanks in general to all you guys from GtG for just being you guys.

(Is my nose brown yet?)

Only thing I'd ask Christopher is that you keep up with the engagement of us on the forums.   Even if it is just an occasional Smoke Bombs comment.  

Agreed with all that when you say, "We'll have an update by X," you need to at least acknowledge when X arrives that you're not ready for an update.

Another technique you can use, which Reaper minis does to good effect, is to get a bunch of tiny reveals ready to go.  For instance, each month, show off maybe one hero card, one villain card, and one environment card.  It doesn't have to be final copy, and in fact sometimes it can be exciting to see early work and insight into the development process.  You could even show off a piece of concept art, a humorous development anecdote, etc.  Do the same whenever you set an extra deadline for yourself, even if the actual content of said update is, "Nothing to report."  It's a small thing, but it can do wonders for contributors' support and enthusiasm for the product.

Can you get forum editing to be reliable?

Can you get forum editing to be reliable?

[Swear words], I wish. 

That is not a thing in my power. I can write games and write words.

I appreciate all the input from everyone. Looking forward to writing tomorrow's Kickstarter update.

No offense, but… it is in your power to hire or direct someone in whose power it is.  It's probably just some caching bugaboo that's easier to fix than it is to actually locate and identify.

No offense, but... it is in your power to hire or direct someone in whose power it is.  It's probably just some caching bugaboo that's easier to fix than it is to actually locate and identify.

If I had spare time/money to hire a person to take care of the website better, you can bet I would. We pay the payroll for all of our nine full time people, as well as paying for contractors like other designers, artists, etc. We have Joel doing website things, but we're also working on a major website overhaul that's been a long time coming. So, we can spend time and money chasing down minute website issues, or we can just have an entirely reworked website when that's an option.

For me, my priority is doing what is unique to me: making Sentinels games. And other, non-Sentinels things, too. So, I feel like I can fairly say that I wish I had forum editing capabilities and that if it were a thing I could fix, I would.

Is it possible we can get a glimpse, or update on the comic book?

I haven't heard anything since the announcement! 

For anyone joining the party late, UXM266 is referencing the $100,000 stretch goal on the OblivAeon / Ultimate Collector's Case Kickstarter. 

That's definitely happening! Actually, Adam and I worked on it all yesterday afternoon after Letters Paging. Good stuff happening there. Lots of cool story things. It's the big reason that the new environment decks made their way into OblivAeon!

I'll put comic stuff into the May Kickstarter update. We'll have exciting things to show by then.

Thanks! Looking forward to it, and to next week's update!

Very solid Kickstarter update, thanks for following through.

My pleasure! Looking forward to next Tuesday, too! Hopefully fewer vitriolic comments next time, but we'll see!

Less vitriol in Kickstarter comments?  Next you'll want more inteligence in poitical discussion.

I'm just impressed/surprised when the comments on Reddit are kinder and generally more positive than the Kickstarter comments.

Not that the Kickstarter comments are all bad. They're largely great! But there have been a notable few exceptions.

Maybe it's because the people on Reddit are also on the forum, while the ones n kickstarter don't spend time here? It could be that they don't get as much info, and so are left out of the loop.

Kickstart comments are from people who definitely spent money on the project, comments where money is involved are always more critical.

People need to stop thinking that Kickstarter is anything other than an investment platform, rather than a store front.

Even as an investment platform, paying your money then experiencing uncomfortable amounts of radio silences is aggravating, you have to admit.

I can admit that some may see it as aggravating, but perhaps I have a different world view on such things - 1-2 months with little information is acceptable as an investment situation - I expect that if I trust a company enough to give it my money that they are working diligently even if I do not actively see such work. I am fine if I get an update every quarter. That makes sense to me, and an update of 'Still working on this' is completely acceptable.

I may simply be a more patient person when it comes to such things however.

You could tell me which kind of steak you'd prefer me to bring to the BYOS at GenCon

(Although I doubt I'll be able to go )

I've read only a few of the comments over at KS, and I can agree that they're way more more...critical than they need to be.

It's not like everyone at GTG is just twiddling their thumbs in their offices, waiting for a new test box.

Yeah, things were definitely a bit toxic. I’ve noticed that as a trend on Kickstarter in general. I’m backing a CMON one currently as well and folk complain about one thing, so the developers fix it, and then they complain that the problem was fixed. Lol

How do you complain about a problem being fixed?

Because some people like the problem. They considered it a feature. You can never make everyone happy or even close to anyone happy. Someone will be pissed off, because it's not what THEY want despite being a good change. 

Counting down until a mod buds this conversation off...

3

Well I would but I’m on my phone so…

2

Remind Paul that we miss the monthly state of GTG posts

Remind Paul that we miss him in general, too. :)

I also love the State of the GtG posts! Not so much for the Kickstarter campaigns, but for the other stuff. For instance, I've got a pre-order for the Viva Java reprint that I'm eagerly looking forward to.

Hi Christopher.

I'm late to the party ... I didn't have an account here and when I tried to create one the validation link went directly to my spam. And I just found it now.

I guess it's better this way: I will talk only about OblivAeon. So my comment will be a lot less harsher than it would have been if I posted it before the "New Sheriff" made his update.

I posted my fair share of vitriolic comments on the OblivAeon KS. It was my only way to show my bitterness and disapointment. After a while reading "A lot of stuff is happening, will tell you about it next month, support the **Some other product** KS." each month ... well after a while it loses credibility.

The March one was especially insulting. Escpecially since all other project from Gtg get a complete update (A day later but an actual update with picture and everything.). I had the feeling that you don't care anymore. I don't forget the positive (like the doudle Fedex to send previous expansions) but the lack of news could means for me only two things : The production of OblivAeon went very very very badly AND/OR yoou really really really sucked at communication.

The mid-month came and went ... No update. Another let down.

But that was before ... You gave FINALLY a correct update. An honest one. And apparently will do the same tomorrow, with production stories. The news about the box wasn't that good, but hey. C'est la vie. I though you were scammed and the chinese compagny never send you a product. Now we know what really happened and it's great to know. We got some preview, a deadline, and at least someone took time to read our comments and answer it !

It won't change the past: Previous communication were so bad, that I though I will have to pass on the RPG and Sentinels of Earth Prime. Now I won't say I'll blindly put my money in it, but there is a good chance it will.

I hope that for the next month the update of OblivAeon will reach the same level as the last one. Show us the backstage, the previews, the cool stories. Show us the bad things too, if in the future you see you can't hold the deadline, don't wait the last moment to tell us. We are (mostly) grown-ups, we prefer a good explanation instead of a bad silence.

Make the first tuesday of each month the best day of the month for SotM fans until the release of the game. That's all that I ask.

I have a personal rule to never spend money on a Kickstarter that I'm not OK with possibly having been thrown out into the void. Though despite that the track record of delivery from projects I've picked has been very good.

But, the general trick to communicating with customers is information. It can be tempting to stay silent when things are hectic or not going smoothly, but that just invites people to project their worst fears into the situation. If you're up front with problems and provide concrete ways you're trying to solve them, it can soothe emotions. (Obviously some people will complain anyway, but you'll probably get fewer complaints this way.) And previews and teasers are always a great way to soothe emotions even more.

As for Reddit, I remember joining Reddit back in the day and being surprised to find it was not in fact the 4chan-level cesspool I had been expecting. It has its social issues, but no more than any random forum on the internet will. And I think the folks over on the SotM Reddit are just happy whenever anyone posts anything of substance at all, because the place is pretty quiet a lot of the time.

Speaking of harsh KS comments we have a winner by the name of eric within 10 minutes on the latest update.   No pleasing some people.

Well, he only backed one Kickstarter, I don't think is on the forums or subreddit, and made two comments. Eric is just a jerk. 

Is there an error on the flavor text for Strangling Roots? (Should it be Aata Wakerewarewa instead of Aritaki Wakewarewa?)

I love the art on Scatter Seeds, and the Orbital Death Laser is really cool.

Request for the next update, assuming the OblivAeon heroes are all the way done: Hero complexity chart?

Could be an alt-Haka? 

Maybe. *shrug*

Is there an error on the flavor text for Strangling Roots?

There is no error.

Nice catch!  I doubt that's an error, or they would have just said "Haka."  I think Aritaki is a newly-revealed character.

Not a big fan of the HP font/background on the Device and Seed.  It made me question whether those were targets or that number meant something else (like Nightmist's spell icons).  I'd have preferred they stuck to the default "sunburst" icon used for all the older cards.

La Comodora seems like she has a heck of a lot more control over time travel and timeline manipulation now.  She must have one heck of a complicated story.  I hope we get to hear it all in the Letters page.

I find it interesting that at least two of these new villains-turned-heroes have several card types that aren't one-shots, equipment, or ongoings that can be played from the hand (unlike Mechanical Golems, which I believe are the only such hero cards currently existing).  We knew a hero with Devices was going to have some interesting side effects.  I guess Akash'Thriya's cards don't count as Equipment or Ongoing so they can't be destroyed by effects that destroy those specifically, just by HP loss or things like End of Days.

I can't really make out what's going on in the art for Hasten Victory.

I have a question that I thought was always vaguely answered in the Kickstarter, but should be easy to answer now that the art is almost certainly done.  Will the Character Cards for the 11 new heroes have different art than the ones we received in the foli hero case? Same question for their alternate art cards?

I have a high tolerance for kickstarter delays, I have 4 kickstarters that have not delivered 2+ years past the estimated date. But I'm also careful to only back projects from creators that have created awesome content that I've previously enjoyed. Also I agree with the previous sentiment of not backing a project from a creator you are still waiting on delivery for.

[quote="MindWanderer"]

I can't really make out what's going on in the art for Hasten Victory.

[/quote]

Looks like an Aeon Man being contorted due to an item Luminary triggered.  

I'd say more "being crumpled up like a paper doll"

The character and variant character cards for the eleven new heroes have different art than their foil versions.

Mindwanderer, Visionary has a non one shot on on ongoing card that stays in place. It is also a distortion.

And Captian cosmic also has targets he can produce. We are just getting more of them. The icon below the number is a quick guide to see what deck they belong too. Look under every target in the game.

@Christopher @ Adam   Can I Please have the image of "¿Quando? ¡Ahora!" I want to place it as my PC background now. Having the print hanging on my wall is no longer good enough. And do you guys have a picture of Faye Diamond (without mist) laying around you would so nice enough to share? 

This may be more of a question for handelabra but what is the game plan for Oblivean and the video game if oblivean is ready to go on the app before oblivean ships. If they have to wait to put this up until after it ships can we at least talk you into  A) use handelabra Tuesday stream to show off how oblivean works game play wise and B) let them release void guard on the app instead. Honestly void guard is what I am most excited about

Handelabra mentioned this on the stream last night and said it would likely be they won't release any content, assuming it's ready, until after OblivAeon is in backers hands.  Even saying that they added the caveat that they would make sure it was ok with GtG to release it.  

From my playtest preview game at Who's Yer Con, I don't think there's any danger of OblivAeon being ready for the video game before it ships in physical form. Lots of moving parts to test.

Besides, Villains and mini-pack 4 aren't even out yet.

They can do Void gaurd, Stuntman and Benchmark guickly. They are just heroes and they been getting good at getting these guys out fast. And they are ready to be printed.

They can also do the Heroes and the enviroment in ObvlivAeon giving some time.  Not to much.

Then they will have to spend considrable time to make the ObvliAeon game mode. It will probably take them as much time as creating the vengace game mode. The best case is we getting it in the app a month after the physical game is shipped. 

I doubt that GTG will let Handelabra release content before the backer get a hold of it. The are already in hot water for the delays. I do not wanna see the backers loose their beans if the video game got stuff first.

Let's see how quickly Villains unlocks. I can't recall what the time lag was from the first Vengeance decks hitting the Mega Computer to Vengeance as a whole being out, but I predict at least that long for OblivAeon.

true but the length for vengence creation could have easily been related to having to create a new layout and new code. With Villians that is done. so we only have 10 new decks… unless I am forgetting about environment decks. Lack of sleep is getting to me.

Right - my point is that work on OblivAeon won't start until after the 10 Vengeance decks, plus the environment decks from Villains, plus Mini-pack 4 are all done.

Then we'll have all kinds of new code to start on all over again.

Keep in mind most people are probably not aware that Mega Computer is the name for the Alpha testing of the the video game.  

Thanks. I likely had forgotten that was the case.

You're right, I can see that now, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense on the card.  What does that card actually represent, story-wise?  Why does it deal 1 lightning damage to all, but the picture shows it physically crushing a single target for what looks like a whole lot more than 1 damage?

Thats a question for Adam but I feel like there other instances where multiple targets are hit but yet only one target is shown.  A recent example would be the Darkly Dreaming that got previewed.  

You might want to have another look at your environment and hero target cards.

The starburst is specific to the video game implementation.   The physical cards have different art in the various decks for the background where the HP is shown.

If Christoper sees this, I want to ask a question. After getting through all the characters, teams and events that you plan to cover in the Letters Page, would you and Adam consider doing an episode centered around the 'real world' history of Sentinels Comics? Little tidbit things like "this character was traded between writers" and "this book was popular until the mid 80's" and "the writing team was really young" are always highlights of episodes for me, showing you guys have really put time into not only the lore, but the lore BEHIND the lore. :)

To add to that, in the Time Cataclysm, each target has a HP icon that matches the deck it's "lost" from.

Phantom5613, I think we might be announcing something later this year that will be of interest to you...

Well now you've got my attention, and will proceed to have it until such announcement is made.

@MigrantP Can we get the unquie icon for targets in the video game. I never noticed, and it would be a nice touch.

I believe it was answered on the stream last night and the answer was no.   

No, it's deliberately the way it is in the video game.

As we're all awaiting Oblivæon with baited breath, I know I, and I hope some others, would appreciate the chance to sharpen my skills and work through some of the challenge modes for VotM. Even if they were doled out slowly, or we did a trivia thing like you did for the reveal of the Villains menagerie, that'd be an awesome way to pass the time. Thanks for all you guys do!

Challenge Modes are definitely on my list for Trickster Kismet and all of the VotM foes!

Not so much a website thing, but have you considered submitting some (or a lot) of the awesome artwork from Spirit Island, Sentinels, etc. to Displate? If you haven’t heard of them, they create high quality metal posters and there is a distinct lack of GtG art at the moment!

Getting art from the game actually came up in a recent episode of the Play Greater podcast. Technically, they could also throw it up on their Redbubble site and we could get it in all kinds of printed formats, but that does take time to make it happen - and they’ve been busy with a lot of stuff that is more likely to help the company be successful.

As much as I want to replace my walls of EE prints, we’ll have to wait a while longer.

Good to know. Thank you for the reply and the info!