The "Should I become a playtester" thread.

Playtesting is great, and we can use your help, more and more games are coming out, and more playtesters means more chances to catch things and more brains to pick on how to make things better.

But there are some negatives:

1.  This is a big one I didn't expect:  Opening a new box will not feel the same.  After testing expansions and playing them unfinished there isn't the same surprise and joy at openning the finished box, it is nice to get the art, but you already know the cards.

2.  It isn't just playing stuff early.  There are a lot of things that just don't work when we get stuff, that's what we are here for, to fix it and make it sparkly and awesome for the rest of you.

3.  We don't see art until it is done.  Yes we get to see the art first, but only when we are done playtesting.

4.  It isn't cheap.  I use the cheapest card stock (after trying paper and never wanting to do that again), write the names on the back so I don't have to double sided print, cross out and scribble on cards when they are updated so I don't print the game 3-5 times and I still burn a cartridge every expansion.

5.  Your group might not be into it at all.  I had friends that were excited when I became a playtester, they only playtested a few times before having enough.  The games weren't always balanced or enen fun, some villains start out unbeatable, others so easy that they are boring.  Feedback like "Why would anyone ever want to play this deck" or "wow, that was boring" isn't the most useful either.

6.  When you find really cool stuff and interactions in the deck, you can only tell other playtesters.

7.  Repetition can burn you out.  I loved Sky-Scraper, put in a ton of work on her because I wanted to make sure she was a great deck, and we succeeded (IMO).  When I got the Wrath box and wanted to play the game I played her and found I was burned out on her.  I had no desire to play as Sky-Scraper, and in fact have only played her since when she comes up random.  This also happened with a few of the Villains decks that I was really working on.

Of course these are my experiences, and I get a bit obsessive about things.

I also must add that I find the positives outweigh the negatives:

1.  Seeing a deck go from "Meh." to amazing is a great trip.

2.  The first time your suggestion makes it into the box, and a card is played and the effect is your idea, that feels great.

3.  The community is fun.  We do, every once in a while, have a 10 page thread arguing over a promo power, where things get a bit heated, but we've only had to have it broken up once.  Most of the time we argue much more civilly.  Sometimes we even like each other's ideas and get along wonderfully.

4.  You do get to see stuff early.  Which is really cool, even if there isn't art and some of the cards don't make sense.

5.  You get your name on the rule book.  Which is fun to show people.

6.  You get to say things like, "You think that's hard, you should have seen the first draft of Progeny!"

7.  You can actually go hunt down the Chrono-Ranger Promo thread and see us argue over the most minute wordings.

Anyway, hope this helps anyone on the fence make up their mind.

Yeah I like the idea of being a playetester but I just don't have the time or materials to be effective.  

You missed the most important part! You can say, “I am sorry, I can’t do that. I NEED to playtest!”

Love the chance to help GTG, signed up, Will be fun to Help a great company!!!!!!!

Am I the only one that never understood why they charge people to become a playtester? I'm a playtester for other companies but this is the only company that I know of that does this. What's the justification?

@dorktron2000

We want to limit the number of playtesters to people with a serious interest in playtesting. We have found that $40 is around the point where most people would gladly spend it for something they are very interested in, but would not spend it if they are only vaguely interested or just there for the spoilers.

Not only that, but there is access to print-and-play documents for all current and future games (without sharing information not available to the public, of course).

Hmm, all right. I'd really like to playtest to help your product become the best it came be but I have a hard time paying for something that benefits your company, especially since I will be buying your products regardless. It kind of feels like I am paying twice. Thanks for the explanation and thanks for Sentinels. It's my favorite solo game.

I just wish you weren't doing this the same weekend rent is due... Any chance i can reserve a spot and pay in on friday?

This is my exact issue word for word

Thanks for the informative perspective, phantaskippy.

Yeah, same.

The main reason I'd be a playtester is to playtest the RPG and I'm not sure that GTG would be handling that? Plus the money I'd spend to be a playtester is now going toward the Oblivaeon kickstarter so I guess that's me not signing up.

Informative thread, though. Thanks for posting it, phantaskippy.

GTG are definitely doing RPG playtesting!

Everything Skippy said. 

Its a tremendous feeling watching a hero or a villain (or environment) bloom.

There are moments of joy when something works perfectly, or when one of your mad ideas ends up being worthwhile.

There are moments of intense frustration when someone finds a game-breaking flaw (especially in something you proposed) and everything comes crashing down around you.

 And moments of joy again when everyone pulls together to take something broken and game-breaking but fun and cajoles it into something that works.  

Thank you for the clarification!

Is there a minimum expectation for play sessions, feedback, time spent, etc. for playtesters?  I'd love to be one, but my free time is very unpredictable, and there will likley be weeks or months when I simply won't be able to commit much time to playtesting.  Is that an option, or is there an expectation that playtesters be able to contribute a certain amount to each cycle?

There are no minimum or maximum. The one requirement is that you contribute if you want to be attributed credit for playtesting for that particular game. Not all of us playtest every game, but you are playing on your time. 

There are a lot of games to playtest, including potential Dice Hate Me Games (we don't know for sure) so we can use all sorts for playtesting, not everyone will test every game, and the investment varies by person.

It is perfectly acceptable to playtest games you want to playtest and skip others.

Oh wait I can do the playtesting because the kickstarter money won't be taken until March.

I am sure it’s the case, but this statement loses some of its oomph now that we are at the end of Sentinels of the Multiverse.

My wife and I play a TON of Sentinels and we’ve very interested in how everything works together. So in that sense, we’d be happy to turn our experience around into feedback for this company, as we’re coming to have a lot of faith in them. But if the games that come up next are like Agricola and we have to keep inviting friends over to play an unfinished version over and over, we just wouldn’t be as effective and wouldn’t have as much fun.

This discussion has been really interesting, and I wish all you new playtesters luck and fun on your adventures!

Q: How long will I remain a playtester?

A: For life and/or as long as GTG exists, as long as you do not go about revealing playtesting information outside the forum or being a jerk. Technically, GTG reserves to right to revoke anyone's playtester status, at any time, for any reason. However, in all our history to date, we have never yet done so.

Just to be 100% clear, can we playtest with friends who aren't playtesters?  Or would it have to be solo or with other playtesters only?

I'm the only playtester in my group. As long as you don't distribute the materials, especially online, its probably fine. If we couldn't play with non-playtesters, I think Spirit Island would be down three orders as three of my players are also getting it because they enjoyed the playtest version so much.

Absolutely, you can playtest with non-playtesters, as long as it's reasonably private. They'd rather you not playtest at conventions or at open board game days, for instance.

Confirmed! :)

I'm assuming this can vary wildly depending on which and how many games a person choses to playtest, but can any current playtesters give me a guestimate of how many pages they print out in a month? While the $40 up front is doable for me, I do all of my printing at the library or local office supply store, so the cost of printing (even just in black and white) can really add up, even if I'm just using normal printing paper.

It does vary wildly. A few of the factors, many of which vary based on who the designer is and what the game components are like:

• How often are there updates? Obviously, more updates means you have to update your components more often.
• Can the updates be done by hand or are they big enough that re-printing is necessary? Later updates, when you're just tweaking a couple words or numbers, tend to be easier to do by hand. Early on, especially for a new game (not SotM) where the rules aren't really ironed out yet, there tend to be more substantial updates.
• What is your personal threshhold for having things look "nice"? Obviously, this is playtesting and we aren't using final designs. Some people are more content to use cards that have been scribbled on or just scraps of paper when it doesn't matter if one card is distinguishable from another (e.g. Tactics or SotM character cards).
• How good is the designer about creating update-only packs? It's very helpful when you get a pdf of only the updated cards. This way, you can print 1-2 pages of only the new things rather than 7-8 pages and then have to throw away most of the things because they didn't change. You also spend less time cutting this way.

So, that probably doesn't answer your question exactly, but it's something to think about.

If we're thinking about cost, it's worth also thinking about whether or not you need to print in color and whether you need to acquire other components. GtG has been pretty good at making B&W-friendly versions of the playtesting files. For some games (eg, Spirit Island) you do need other components besides printing, and will need to either scrounge them from other games or order them. Fortunately those other components don't change much.

Otherwise, what grysqrl said. GtG has been pretty good about producing update-only packs, but it can still get annoying if you skipped a revision.

Since I:

1. Wanted to playtest GTG products I'm interested in (I'm looking at you, Sentinels Comics RPG! Please?).

2. Can afford a one-time $40 charge.

3. Have a printer and randoms bits at home.

4. Got my questions answered by you guys;

I took the plunge!

I am still sort of on the fence, for the reason that I don’t really know what kind of games they’ll be moving on to after Sentinels is done. I love Sentinels games and they also would have been relatively easy for us to play test. But, not really knowing what sort of thing is coming up - presumably something is, or they wouldn’t have reopened playtesting - I’m not sure whether I’d just be getting a (admittedly cool) forum badge!

I have played the Spirit Island Print-n-Play several times and have enjoyed every second of it. Playtesting for the initial release is probably over, but I am assuming that if they do well enough selling the base game and first expansion, that more will follow. If so, then this will likely satisfy the Sentinels itch and I would check it out if you are on the fence.

I'm guessing this means that those who signed up will definitely be testing the upcoming (and final ... /weep!) Oblivaeon expansion (and whatever mini-expansions they release simultaneously)?

I mentioned that this was open again as an option (missed the opportunity, last year) to my wife, and she said, "Well, we love their games. Happy birthday, go sign up!"

So, hey, I guess I'll be seeing a few of you on the forums a bit more often!

On the PRO becomming a playtester side, I do want sneak-previews of GTG games before they're released, I want to help make the game be the best it can be, and it'd be cool to have my name in the book and be a part of the community.

On the CON side, I don't generally do print-and-play for other things (even when I get a PnP through a kickstarter, I often just wait for the official release so I can better appreciate the art and bits as part of the game whole), I tend not to have as much gaming time as I used to and being a playtester means playing the same game over and over, and when I do game I prefer it to be a fun social experience, not an analysis of what's working or not with note-taking.

So that's why I'm tempted to playtest, but am passing on it.  Self-awareness is the key to happiness.

I bought into for previews and to add my input where I can.   I'm not able to easily do PnP but at least with SotM or Tactics I know the game well enough to feel I can contribute.

Aye, I'm right with you Seesome. Every time the Playtest option has come up I've seriously considered it, but I ultimately doubt that I'd be invested enough to provide any meaningful input. I don't need spoilers, as I'm happy to wait a few months longer and enjoy all the smokebombs in the forums instead

I just signed up. What tipped the scales was knowing i’d wake up tomorrow and regret it more if I didn’t than if I did. Wanted to remind anyone else on the fence that today is the last day to decide.

Alright, I pulled the trigger...even though the USD to CAD exchange rate hurts, I guess I'll just have to console myself with the PNP copies of all the games...ALL the games...

Really looking forward to seeing what's happening with OblivAeon, Tactics, and Sentinels Comics RPG!

One thing some folks might enjoy is that the old forums from playtesting earlier sets are actually still available to read. There is some interesting stuff in there! (Nothing that's going to change anyone's minds, but just another little benefit.)

Okay so I took the plunge. I have been regretting not doing so the first time around. My big question is what's next? How do we get started?

Once you get your playtester badge, log in and check out the playtester forums.  They'll be added to your list of available forums.

Just wanted to add. While you don't get the same excitement when opening a new box you would have before, you do feel a sense of accomplishment.

Whether it was helping decide the exact wording of a card, or pointing out an awkward interaction with an existing deck, or even spellchecking, you know that that game exists because you helped it to get there.

For me it was a easy choice, after Meeting everyone at Gen-con. And helping out there, It is a great chance to help out. I went out and bought a nice Brother Color Laser Printer from Best Buy for $150.00, and Some Card Stock (Boy that was hard to find everyone is out), and had my first Playtesting Session with my gameing Group. It went well, and I an eager to do more. I get to input and See thing as they progress, and I get to help out a Bunch of nice people bring great products to the world. It's a win-win in my eyes. 

I printed mine out on paper and stuffed them into Magic decks that were sleeved. The different sleeves denoted which deck they were for and when playtest was done, the Magic decks were still together.

That's definitely a great overview of the positives and negatives of playtesting.  I work in the gaming industry which has led to many opportunities to playtest games and sit down with Beta versions of unreleased stuff.  At first, you couldn't imagine how excited I was to see some of my favorite games in their earliest stages and be able to get my hands on expansions and new material before anyone else.  But novelty wore thin pretty quickly for me and it's mostly because, as mentioned, the magic tends to disappear.

There's a big difference between playing a board/card game chock full of wonderful artwork and flavor text that crafts an immersive experience, and playing with cards printed on plain white paper, in a broken state.  And then be required to drill into the game to find the nitty gritty bugs and broken combinations that players could experience with the final product.  And in the end, you don't get that same rush when getting your brand new copy and opening it up when it's finally released.

Playtesting is for the dedicated and for those who love a game so much that they desire to be a part of the development process.  I think if you go into Playtesting thinking it's just going to be sitting around playing games all day, you'll be disappointed.  You need to be willing to put your time on the line and really dive into an incomplete experience, your satisfaction coming from the fact that you're helping the game become whole.  Playtesting is an awesome time and insanely important to the development of games; just be aware that some parts of it aren't as glamorous from the inside.