SotM Video Game for people without a tablet!

Hey! If you don't have a tablet and don't want to wait for a PC version to be created, you can use www.andyroid.net! I only have a phone, not a tablet, but now I can play SotM: The Videogame!

I tried very hard to get this set up but couldn't get my mouse working within the app so I gave up

I pulled it off after some complications, but now it runs great!  It only took me four hours between waiting for the app to be put up on the store and trying to find some way between my Samsung Galaxy II, Kindle Fire original, and laptop to get the game to play.

Only four hours...

You just didn't sleep last night did you?

Four a.m. to seven a.m.

I am very tired.

Will you sleep, or will you save the world?

So, um. How are you supposed to use the site? It's just a guy's name. All the pages are blank.

Try this instead: http://www.andyroid.net/

I was exploring the web and came across this nugget on sotm the video game

http://handelabra.com/s/SotM_VG_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Now i am curious. Who has unlocked stuff and how?

If there's a way to unlock stuff, it would have been nice to be told how to unlock it.  I much prefer achievements you know exist so you can try for them rather than random ones you accidentally stumbled upon.  How can you have pleasant anticipation for something you didn't know existed?

Right now there's nothing to unlock (so far as I know), Migrant P has said they plan to include Promos as unlockables in future updates. Getting the core game out was more important to them than adding more content (and rightly so).

That is an old fact sheet (it doesn't even have the release date). Unlockable promo cards will be in version 1.1.

Oh, I love unlockable things!

I think I found one issue.   I played Take Down and Omnitron was still able to play a drone from his trash.   This constitutes playing a card so I would think Take Down would prevent that from happening.  

Incorrect.

"At the end of the villain turn, shuffle the villain trash and reveal cards from the top until 1 drone or component is revealed. Put it into play. Put the other revealed cards back into the trash."

"Put into play" is different than "play"

In a game against Dawn, she played Summer and someone else on her turn. I rewound back to the environment turn for some reason, probably because I'd changed my mind about what card to discard or something, and didn't have the opportunity to correct before the villain turn started. When Dawn played cards again she pulled out Truth and the same other guy, rather than Summer and that guy. I specifically remember planning to Final Dive Summer on Fanatic's turn, so I was double unhappy to see Truth!

I tried in a few other non-Dawn games just to see if that card-changing happened again but it didn't. I suspect that the villain card play is fixed once it's been "decided" but Summer/Truth came into play via Return with the Dawn and that shuffles just before revealing and therefore can yield a different Citizen if you replay the turn.

It does make me think though, isn't it horribly cheaty to be able to rewind all the hero turns once you know what the villain/environment's going to do? Or horribly cheaty if you can potentially avoid the worst Citizens?

How about an "are you sure you're happy with the round, no rewinds if you click yes" confirmation after the hero turns?

We can look into this, revealing should not cause a reshuffle. Are you sure it happened on rapid recon and not because of the card draw afterward?

If you had no card in your deck and used rapid recon, the power would fizzle and then you draw a card - triggering a reshuffle.

I noticed one problem too. I used rapid recon and it reshuffled my deck. If it was the last card in my deck, the deck wouldn't reshuffle til the next turn, if there were no cards left nothing should have been revealed

When you're playing on the table-top, nothing is stopping you from looking through your deck, rearranging the villain deck, playing cards out of turn, or anything you like. We're not really worried about "cheating" in a co-op game. If you want to play that way, more power to you.

STOP BUYING THE APP! STOP IT NOOOOOOOOOW!

I've figured it out, the App is Omnitron in disguise, it's learning all the tactics that the real Sentinels will use in it's home corner of the multiverse, Handelabra games are all flesh covered drones, you're dooming the human race!

But if we stop buying the app we'll never see any of the expansions.  I'd buy it several more times if it meant getting those sooner.  Besides, what do I care what omnitron does in his own verse?

Come with me if you want to live.

I went ahead and registered the game to get the card, but there's something that worries me: It asked which "store" I bought it from (Google Play in my case), but it didn't ask me what the account was on said service. The reason this worries me is because the e-Mail and credit card I used are my own, yet the tablet (and thus the Google account) which I bought the game on were my mother's. Will this cause complications?

Nothing's stopping you from playing the rules all wrong either, but you're implementing those. shrug

I realized it was my bad. I discarded the revealed card, causing me to draw an empty deck.

The "store" dropdown is just for our information, it's not important. We don't have your credit card info. No complications =)

What is the consequence if someone "cheats" in a single player or cooperative game?

Probably not much different to if someone accidentally got a rule wrong in their favour, I guess. The game's easier to win. Actually, it's a different game if you're playing it wrong, if you want to get technical. And if a person deliberately cheats in a face-to-face game with me, I'd refuse to play with them again.

Isn't it part of the (implicit) rules of the game that you can't take back all your getting-out-equipment card plays when you know (from peeking rather than genuine in-game effects) that Dawn's just about to play Devastating Aurora?

Seems inconsistent to allow that specific type of cheating when everything else is so well controlled. I can't use Final Dive to destroy something with 5HP, and I shouldn't be able to take back card plays after I've seen the next environment/villain card.

They take themselves out back and beat the crap out of themselves.

But they can leave the equipment cards they just played right there on the table, thank you very much.

Again, if the game is easier to win, or a different game, what is the consequence? Who does it harm?

If it was a competitive multiplayer game -- absolutely we would do whatever we can to prevent cheating, because there is demonstrable harm involved.

In a single player or cooperative game -- there is no harm done.

I understand what you are feeling, but in my opinion the ability to change your mind on a decision is more important than any imagined consequence of "cheating" in a single player game. You are welcome to not use the undo feature -- it wasn't always in the game. But know that our beta testers complained loudly until it was.

One thing i have noticed is on my samsung tablet is that the i can not back out of the app to close it. when i am done playing, i have to load my application manager to force end the app in order for it to close. Loving the game.

What is the normal behaviour you expect? We'd like to get this right. Are you expecting that when you press the Back button on the main menu, it will leave the app? Should it prompt you "are you sure?"

Admittedly Android is not the platform we have the most experience with. We tried to make the Back button behave appropriately in game. Let us know what you would expect to see and we'll make the changes in an update.

I agree.  If I cheat in a game of solitaire, the only person I'm hurting is myself (sob).  But accidentally touching the wrong card and not being able to take back that play would be really irritating.

For me personally, I never use the "undo" key. I don't care for it. If I make a mistake (even accidentally hitting the wrong card or something), I live with it because that's more interesting and I like things that force me to be specific and precise in my actions and choices. I would be 100% OK with the game not having the "undo" button... but just for me. A lot of people want it, and a lot of people use it, so it should absolutely be in the game. It's just not for me. I have never pushed it and I never will and that's my personal choice. Woo!

I can stand behind this reasoning. I figure if a game makes it easier to take back an unintentional action, it also makes it easier to develop a habit of take-backs. The game becomes less fun that way, and there's less risk involved with each decision.

Of course, my house rules for sentinels are that you can take back an action if it doesn't change the course of the round. Like if tempest is about to deal everything 1 point of damage, and before that Haka decides to finish off a weakling with Crush instead of targetting something that wouldn't have survived from Tempest. But when a new card is drawn that changes the strategy of the round, I hesitate to allow that.

Yeah, but we're talking about stuff like you trying to double-tap a card but instead only a single tap is registered so the game thinks you want to play the card rather than just look at it.  That's no fun.  I wouldn't imagine using the button for actual take-backs is all that rampant.

I think you perfectly supported my previous gripe for the double-tap feature

Yeah, but it's the same thing if the gesture is press-hold but the game thinks you just tapped and it tries to play the card.

I'm not asking for the undo button to be taken out. It's fantastic, and more apps should have one. I whole-heartedly support it. I just don't want people to be able to use it to take back their turn once they know what the villain's about to play (except of course when you've legitimately stacked the deck or revealed the top card or whatever). I suggested an "are you sure you're done with hero turns, no take backs allowed after this" confirmation, if you remember.

In a physical game, if a player put out a special equipment or ongoing and then wanted to change their mind when Dawn pulled out Devastating Aurora, you wouldn't let them change their turn.

Am I really the only one who can't see the difference between "you can't use Final Dive to destroy something with 5HP" and "you can't change your turn once the villain play has been revealed"? What's the consequence if Fanatic can do that? What's the consequence if someone plays 2 cards a turn when they should only play 1? Is it really a big deal if someone picks out their perfect starting hand rather than getting random cards? Solo or co-operative has nothing to do with any of this. Rules are rules.

I'm also looking forward here. When we get to online multiplayer, if I was in a game where someone cheated in the way I'm concerned about, it ruins my game. It ruins everyone's game. The win doesn't count, and I'd be pretty pissed. And don't kid yourself, there will be some people who cheat if they can. Some people can't help it. I don't want cheating to be possible.

Is it really a big deal if someone picks out their perfect starting hand rather than getting random cards?

No, it's not a big deal (IMO) if someone wants to waste their time cheating in a solitaire game.  I couldn't count the number of times I've moved cards around in regular solitaire games to let myself win, and I don't see why anyone would care if someone did it with a solo game of SotM. 

What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?

I've never seen a solitaire app that allows that. I wonder why?

Heh, solitaire can be played with physical cards as well as apps.

What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?

So you're worried about one guy surreptitiously hitting the rewind button to game the system while he's got the tablet in a pass-and-play game and then not telling anyone that he's cheated?  I'd say that's super lame of that guy, but it's still a co-op game so it's not like he's come out ahead in any way.  Plus, when I found out what the guy had done, I wouldn't let him play with my iPad anymore.

The rewind button is obviously at odds with faithful execution of the rules, but I'm comfortable opting for convenience over rigid adherence to the rules because the consequences of accidentally being forced to carry out an action you didn't mean to initiate seems more irritating than the possibility that someone will win a solo or co-op game that they otherwise would have lost.  But of course, it's just my opinion.

Sure. The point I'm making is that just because you can physically do something in a cardboard game, doesn't mean that the app should allow you to do the same if it's against the rules. Quite the opposite.

What if it's in a multiplayer game you're in?

I like the rewind, I said that. I've made my share of mistakes - recently using a huge Hypersonic Assault on Dawn when I'd gotten distacted and forgotten that she'd flipped (and the "choose" a target screen didn't warn me that she was immune). I took that card play back as soon as its effect resolved - after all, in a physical game or on G+ someone would have reminded me pretty damned quick as soon as I announced my play. And today I put Wrest the Mind on an Electropulse Explosive with 5HP rather than the one with 15HP, because I just clicked too fast without thinking. Realised my mistake straight away, fixed it. Absolutely the rewind should be there. Rewind/undo is awesome, and all boardgame apps should have it where it's appropriate (far too many do not).

I'm arguing that you shouldn't be able to rewind once you know what the environment and/or villain play is. No takebacks once new information is revealed. I don't know a single other boardgame app, competitive or co-operative, which allows you to do this.

That hypothetical guy in the pass-and-play (or later multiplayer) would have ruined my game and wasted my time. He's come out ahead of me. shrug

It is the only thing that has to do with it. The very reason it doesn't matter (in our opinion) is because it's solo/co-operative.

In online play the undo button will not work the same way; it can't, or everyone's game state would get disconnected. It may have to either be not allowed, or something that everyone agrees on. We'll figure that out when the time comes, I'm not worried about that.

The undo button is a convenience in a solo/co-op game, and that's all. You are free to not use it if it bothers you. We can provide an option to disable it if you can't trust your friends in pass & play.

Saying you shouldn't be able to rewind once you've revealed hidden information would make the undo button hardly usable for much of the game. Suppose you accidentally use a power that fizzles. Then you immediately draw a card. If we changed it to what you suggest, you would not be able to undo, because you've revealed hidden information. That's just one example, there are many more in this complex game. We prefer to allow the player to have the ability to rewind without restrictions that would make the feature useless much of the time.

We disagree here then. Rules are rules are rules, as far as I'm concerned. Can you explain why this rule "doesn't matter", but Fanatic Final Diving a 5HP minion does? I'm genuinely not seeing the difference. How do you decide which rules are ones you should implement, and which ones you don't care about because "it's only a co-op"?

The undo button is a convenience in a solo/co-op game, and that's all. You are free to not use it if it bothers you. We can provide an option to disable it if you can't trust your friends in pass & play.

I keep saying that I LIKE THE REWIND BUTTON and I intend to keep using it to correct my genuine (and unfortunately frequent) careless mistakes. I don't want it disabled. It isn't that I don't trust my friends, and anyone willing to cheat in a game with me would very quickly become a person I don't game with.

Saying you shouldn't be able to rewind once you've revealed hidden information would make the undo button hardly usable for much of the game. […] We prefer to allow the player to have the ability to rewind without restrictions that would make the feature useless much of the time.

That's a fair point. While I still believe that you shouldn't be able to change your mind based on that new information, I think that knowing what card your hero is about to (re)draw is much less of an issue than knowing what the upcoming environment/villain card will be, and other than a whole lot of irritating "are you sure you're done with your start/play/power/draw/end phase?" confirmations (obviously somewhat unreasonable) I don't think there's a way to avoid that issue anyway, as you say.

I'll modify my statement then. You shouldn't be able to undo hero turns once you've seen the environment card play (or villain card play if there's no environment play for some reason). So realistically this means:

• Villain Turn
• Hero Turn x 3-5
• [confirmation that you're done with heroes]
• ["undo limit" set to this point]
• Environment Turn

I've noticed the rewind capability is kind weird in when it does and doesn't allow it - specifically how far back it goes. There have been a couple times where I've been distracted and forgot something or clicked the wrong button (as Silverleaf mentioned) - the worst is when I accidentally tell the software to decide for me (out of habit, because that's what I usually do) instead of hitting Confirm in one of those rare cases where the order matters.

Unfortunately, that means the hero who goes last is often screwed if they made a mistake and let the Environment start - and that's happened to me a lot. Many times, I have no way to stop the process, as cards are playing and and things are happening. (Or maybe I'm missing something?) By the time I can use Undo, it won't let me go back to that turn.

So we just continue and deal with the mistake. (I just imagine how comically that played out in the comic, how the other heroes make fun of them, and move on. )

The undo button is not part of the rules. It is a time machine, and is outside of the rules.

The game rules are implemented and calculated for you because we have the power and ability to do so on a computer. We could have made it so that you have to keep track of everything, move cards around manually, and adjust HP yourself, but clearly that would be silly.

It's not because "it's only a co-op" or because of "rules are rules," it's because there is no demonstrable harm relating to anything you can do with the undo button in this game.

It allows you to go back to the previous hero turn (whenever that was). That was a decision by us to make the UI reasonable and try to avoid inducing analysis paralysis in some players. Technically we could allow you to undo to any phase back to the start of the game.

There is a bug where if you skip a turn or become incapacitated the undo doesn't let you go back as far as it should.

That makes sense.

What I've actually seen is sometimes I can go back two or three turns, sometimes into the villain turn and sometimes into the environment turn. I've never been able to go past the environment turn, though, and I can't find a consistent explanation for how far back it's going.

Don't get me wrong! I love how the game has come out - you folks have done a wonderful job on this!!! If this is my biggest concern (and it probably is - the fact that I'm not thinking of anything else right now is a good indicater ), then you've done well. (And by that I mean I'm really not concerned about it. I just want to make sure you know it seems to be functioning inconsistently.)

The undo feature works consistently for me on iOS; it goes back to the previous hero's turn (which will include the environment and villain turns if the first hero in the rotation uses the button). This is with the exception of the aforementioned incapacitated bug, of course.

I just realized, solitaire apps almost invariably have an Undo button, which you can press as many times as you want, with no restriction on whether or not you've seen what's under the face-down cards.  I can't believe every solitaire app ever made is so pro-cheating. ;)

I like how we kind of hijacked a different thread about a topic that was on the other one concerning the video game, and not  a way to play it on your PC :P

Anyway, I'm in full support of being able to undo up until the Environment turn, with a confirmation of whether or not the heroes would like to pass to the Environment. The last person in line will at least have that confirmation to double-check to see if everything went as planned.

Can I firmly cast my vote against turning this app into “SotM: Vista”? I really don’t need more confirmation pages on this game. The mechanics already require a lot of confirmation pages. I’d rather play with people I trust. If someone accidentally gains secret information then we’ll do what happens when someone accidentally reveals too many cards from the deck or draws too many cards.

Let it go and keep playing. Maybe even make the same move you were going to make with no consideration for the extra information before it was revealed.

+1

This is standard in all games we play - even RPGs. Luckily, the folks I play with are great and have no (or at least few ) issues with ignoring known information.

v2.0 of the game should have a "We're cool, bro" mode and a "You look shify" mode.  In the shifty mode, every move needs to be approved by an admin before the game can proceed.  (I keed, I keed) ;)

Every move would be submitted to the forum for conformation confirmation. Both strategy and rules must be in line with groupthink, and no move may be approved without at least 4 pages of argument.

And subjected to train puns, split into separate threads, printed and filed in triplicate, lost, re-printed, lost again, recycled into party hats for Adam to wear around the office, and finally buried under landfill for twenty years.

It might take a while to complete a game against Akash Bhuta once the expansions are released.

I used the button today and I was alright with it.

For Co-op I would give an end of turn signal to pass the turn to the next player, and once you pass you can't make changes.  It might work even better to put it before the card draw so you couldn't change your play if you drew a certain card that changed your strategy, but mostly I think an end of turn click or go back would be good.

It would also save some time, I messed up my power use for the last hero and it was a pain getting back to redo it.  Having a checkpoint at the end of the hero turn, even as an optional setting would be really cool.

There's going to be a better way to play SotM without a tablet. Please vote for us on Steam Greenlight! http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=329666216

I saw it, can't wait to join in the fun!

Alright! That’ll work a lot better on my computer. Andyroid uses up a lot of memory.

I do have a question, though: will the stream version be kept up to date and have simultaneous releases of expansions/promos?

Keep up the great work!

Our plan is to keep all platforms up to date at the same time, unless there's some specific problem with a certain platform.

You guys are too awesome.