No More Heroes?

So there's a minor nemesis for every hero in the Vengeance villain decks. There were three villains with unreleased heroes. Captain Cosmic, Skyscraper, and Guise. But now they're all confirmed in WotC and all minor nemeses have heroes. 

However it's common belief, and probably confirmed, that there will be at least one more expansion. But there's no more minor nemesis cards. Is that to keep the future heroes a secret? Or are there just no more heroes which I doubt really. 

I would guess a combination of limited space in the V5 decks, wanting to keep future heroes secret and the possibility of future V5 type villain decks.

Also, if a hero appears after the Vengeance story, it would make sense not to have a nemesis.

Maybe the next expansion will have nemesis villians for all the heroes that don’t have them and all following expansions will be entirely made of environment decks with nemesis targets. There by removing any need for heroes.

Ooh, I love that game!
Anyway, I’d guess the same as Matchstickman up there.

That's makes sense. I'd hate to know all of the heroes now. I hope it does mean more Vengeance style villains because those are very cool

I don't know...

If the next expansion after Wrath of the Cosmos is the final one, I could easily see it as "The Final Challenge", which holds only environments and villains, with no heroes.  It'd definitely give the>G guys a chance to catch up on the numerous heroes lacking solo nemeses.  

I think I still wouldn't mind seeing The Matriarch or Baron Blade as heroes though!

Didn't Paul recently post that the end of SotM would arrive in approximately 2 years? Since they have been releasing one expansion per year, this would suggest that there may even be 2 SotM-expansions to come (Careful speculation).

On the side: I am curious about the 5 missing villains from the "Spooky Six".

If we do get 2 more expansions after WotC, including the Final one, I’d like to see a Vengeance expansion.

2 heroes, 2 environments, 5 Vengeance style villains (which is the same amount of cards as 4 normal villains). This would give the villain teams more combinations and fill in any Nemesis gaps. Plus I love Vengeance but it definitely would be stellar with more variety in the villain department.

One more set of five villains would be just about right too, to give you a great amount of combinations when sitting down to a Vengeance-style game.

I wonder if, thematically, it would be awkward though.  Vengeance is the Baron and his four buddies, assembled specifically to deliver the Baron's revenge.  If a second expansion had another five villains who, I assume, would have their own reason for teaming up, would it make sense to mix the two groups together, or would it end up feeling like a herd of cats with multiple uncomplimentary motivations who were all fighting at the same time, but not necessarily together?

Thematically, I quite like that, actually. Those sorts of situations arise all the time in comics.

My current speculation:

2 more expansions after WotC. 1 normal expansion and then the final Mega expansion.

Next normal expansion will be themed around Evil Organizations in the SotM universe. Namely FILTER, RevoCorp, and the Dragon Clans.

Unity Bunker AbZero and Scholar will have their nemisis villains here. Environments will be a ninja dojo and FILTER HQ.

Heros? Well…that is the sticky wicket right now. I'v said for a long time that it wouldn't surprise me to have a few villains turn into hero decks.

The Operative would make perfect sense given my theme speculation and her appearance in Tactics, having her join the Blue Dragon clans along with DW Fixer in order to take down Zhu Long and the Red Dragon clans. The Red Masked assasin that sticks a blade into DW Fixer could be from that red clan as well. But thats all speculation from artwork we have all seen.

Matriarch could become one as well, judging by the appearance of her being attacking by a as-yet-to-be-revealed villain in Parse's deck (Adam has never shown a villain fighting another villain in any card art to date). Maybe the group of villains (kinda resemble the sinister 6) as seen on Setbacks cards are actually her old friends from the "Dead Poets Society" and she turns a new leaf to help take them on?

It's hard to speculate what the final Mega expansion will be, but it surely will be a "Final Battle" themed culmination of all the storylines. I highly doubt it will be the same format as Vengeance. The format Vengeance took (5 heros, 1 Super Villain team) was based upon the story it told. The Final Battle expansion will probably have a brand new format for playing SotM that fits with the story it is trying to tell. Card art for WotC might give us a clearer hint as to whats coming, so we will just have to wait and see!

I would love to see more of the Matriarch. I've said for a while that the story promises more than just "angsty teenager, magic mask, pretty birdies".

I'll try not to crow over you all when I'm proved right. 

Speculation is for the birds... and I doubt we will hear a peep from the designers about anything beyond Wrath of Chaos at this time, so let's not embark on this wild goose chase. 

We wouldn't want to run a foul of the rules here, but I see no harm in the guessing game

I assume this is Setback's Sinister Six as seen in his deck.  Which is the one we know?  I don't have my cards in front of me.

Robin people of the fun of speculation is a Cardinal sin.  If you're not too Chicken to make guesses the worst that happens is you end up eating Crow.

We've seen more of Baron Blade, Citizen Dawn, Omnitron, Spite and The Organization.  The only Base or RC villains we haven't seen more of are Voss, Matriarch and Plague Rat.  I could see Plague Rat being resolved with Final Wasteland and his nemesis being a later addition, but Voss and Matriarch are due.

If we need more heroes, there are two who would make sense : Beacon and Expatriette's father. They would be perfect in an expansion themed around family, past, legacies, and changing times... an expansion bridging the gap between Sentinels of the Multiverse and Sentinel Tactics.

We could have the son of Baron Blade as a new villain - or rather his daughter, I bet on a daughter.

Even Christopher himself has mentioned on the forums that Matriarch wields a lot more power than even she knows about. Her role in SotM is not done.

I'd like to see some Villain* decks re-made as 5 deck challenges (so play in a similar form to the Vengeful 5, though wouldn't introduce any new villains necessarily). I also wouldn't mind seeing some of the Vengeful five get full size decks of their own, though given Proletariat's story in the Tactics game, it'd be interesting to see how he'd intereact with civilians in environments like Megalopolis (Would he save innocent bystanders?)

Not sure where an expansion that did that would fit in the overall timeline though.

*- I have some specific ones and ideas in mind, but not sure if they'd break the forum rules on suggesting heroes/villains etc

Is this actually against forum rules?  I just read through them and it doesn't seem to be…

I think anything that could be commercially exploited is (to protect >G from law suits), so if I was to suggest that [REDACTED] was made in to five decks with each deck [REDACTED], that I think would go against the spirit of the policy against creating hereoes etc.

I like calling Setback's villain team the "Spoopy Six."

Has a nice ring to it. Like chupathingy.

I'm pretty sure Expatriette's father was confirmed dead by Christopher a LONG time ago on these forums. Once it was clear Amanda didn't have any powers, Dawn pulled a praying mantis with her lover.

Ha. Since when does death stop anyone in comics :)

Man, I can't wait for the Herd of Cats Venegeance-Style expansion, I hear it's going to turn up in odd places for you to trip over and will keep bringing torn up cards to your door every day.

Nah, it'll just sit in the box. Cats love boxes. 

We are permitted to post alternate character cards for existing heroes and villains, but not decks or brand new heroes.

So if you have an idea for existing villains to turn into Vengeance format feel free to say it.

Also if someone wants to create a character card for the V5 members to turn them into a solo villain that would also be kosher.

I have a Vengeance Baron Blade Solo remake that I really like, and have a few Fright Train ones floating around.  I'm thinking of getting them printed up.   I've been tinkering with the idea of adding 5 additional cards from the ones already in their decks (using the single card order from the website) but I don't know if that would be worth it, or if I'd rather just do the 20 cards.

If you want a fan-made set of Vengeance style character cards that turn all the normal villains into Vengeance decks you can find them on BGG, I helped a guy over there playtest them.  They aren't always the most balanced in every combination (Omnitron and V. Baron advanced for example) but they all work well, and make for an incredible amount of variety and fun.

You can find them under the Team Conversions section: Over Here!

Have you seen the team conversions the_yoshi has posted on BGG?  He has made a Vengeance style one for every other villain so far and solo villain versions of the Vengeance villains.  The thread is in the variants forum on SotM's BGG page.

Edit: Nvm, I just realized that they all have your stamp of approval lol.

Do we know if those Yoshi conversions are actually good?  Lots of people post lots of decks on BGG hoping that they'll get playtested after the fact. Just because the decks exist doesn't mean they're fun.

We know Ambuscade.  

I would like to see the inevitable Baron Blade/Legacy team up that always happens between heroes and the nemesis in comics, but don't you think that Tactics would be more conducive to that fated battle? 

I playtested all of the team conversions of official heroes, and they are all a lot of fun.

What I didn't do is try to balance them for every combination, so some will be harder than others.

For example, Gloomy and Matriarch are vicious, since both react to every fowl destruction.

Vengeance Baron Blade and Omnitron are wicked if you use Baron's advanced, because everything is a device.

Overall they are a lof of fun and reasonably well balanced.  A lot of them had to lose their best cards to do it though.  You won't find an Aurora or Flechettes for example.

My Top 5 of the bunch are:

1.  Kismet:  her deck in a team fight has all the fun without being easy to shut down.

2.  Ambuscade:  He just comes right at you.  It hurts.

3.  Gloomweaver:  What group doesn't want a necromancer summoning Zombies everytime anything bites the dust?

4.  Iron Legacy:  His card has no rules, you just play his one-shots, and it's good enough.  (I love that his card does nothing but set him up)

5.  Miss Information:  There is an error on the card, her advanced should reduce damage to all villain targets if there aren't clues in play.  As it reads now the advanced is pointless with her earlier text.  When played correctly she just messes with the heroes while they are trying to fight the villains, which I find really cool.

The toughest ones are Matriarch, The Ennead, and Akash in my experience.

I enjoy the Vengeful Five game format, and I can't imagine that >G will abandon it after only one expansion.  I'd love to see a few more Villains down the line to increase the variety of the Villain Team format that are also secondary nemeses to a few of the Freedom Five's close allies, such as Unity, Haka, or Tempest.  (I'm basing the criteria for "close allies" on the Heroes' Barbecue artwork used on one of Iron Legacy's cards, which is currently my computer wallpaper).  Their decks could include minion nemeses for the rest of the heroes that appear before the end of SotM, so everything balances out.  Not many more additions, maybe one or two, just to add a little more randomness and variety to Villain-Team games.

Thematically, although the Vengeful Five were defeated enough to force Baron Blade to give up on the concept, it doesn't mean that they simply forgot each other and scattered to the far corners of the Multiverse.  They learned the merits of working together, so who's to say they don't get together for the occasional one-off job, crime spree, or to smack down an uppity hero that's been getting on someone's nerves?  Likewise, if some of the original V5 members are unavailable, they'll outsource to make sure the team has the skills, powers, talents, or gear needed to complete their mission.  Then, they'll go their separate ways.  At least, until Ermine decides she needs a mind-reading con artist to distract security while Fright Train juggles cop cars to keep the police busy, giving her the opening she needs to steal the crown jewels or something.  I may or may not have been watching too many Leverage reruns lately.

Just my thoughts on the subject.  I'll be chew-my-nails excited over anything >G does.  They're batting a thousand as far as I'm concerned.

I think I saw one of the GtG guys actually say somewhere that they had no plans for any further Vengeance-style expansions. Maybe there was some sneaky misdirection embedded in their statement which I missed, or maybe their plans will change, or maybe I'm just misremembering the entire thing. Hard to say. 

Someone asked Adam if there was to be more Vengeance like expansions at the >G release party and he said No, when this was posted to the forums Christopher expressed shock, perhaps there is dissent among the management?

Ah ha! Here

Yes, I was the one who heard that comment from Adam, but ... well you know how tricksy these guys can be.

The obvious Villain to re-make in Vengeance format would be Grand Warlord Voss. He could have 3 Lieutenant Decks and 1 Dropship/fleet deck. It would be a case of targets as far as the eye can see, but would feel pretty epic.

What I'd love to muck around with though is the Chairman. A deck for him, a deck for the Operative, a deck for thugs (Enforcer type character as the main villain), a deck for other criminal types (corrupt cop as the main villain) and a deck that represents his influence in the city, that would be more of a puzzle than a straight target - it would buff the other decks, but possibly would be defeated when the chairman was defeated, even if it hadn't been solved. What I'm not sure of is how to make target damage part of the solution method since most powers deal damage and getting away from that would be a pretty major change to the game.

Why would they redo decks of stories they already told though? I don't see that happening at all. 

So?

What you're suggesting is also a pretty major change to the game, an environment as an actual force to fight against, rather than 'merely' a place it happens. Nothing says you can't step away from the damaging aspect of the game. Have the V5 environment deck be about heroic sacrifices to clear up the streets, heroes must discard cards or destroy their own ongoing to  remove 'environment' cards from the game. Or make the card immune to damage from hero targets and have the heroes gain a new power that makes the 'environment' damage itself, you give up the opportunity to beat on the bad guys because you're helping the innocents instead, that's classic superheroing right there.

This is your fan made idea, don't be constrained by what has come before.

I imagine Christopher and Adam solved that disagreement like they do any disagreement, with a fight to the death.

Sadly Christopher can't actually deal damage, just reduce it, so in my imaginary GtG deathmatches he doesn't win much, but the warehouse burns gloriously every time.

Then you have Paul standing there like "WTF guys?" on a heap of smoldering rubble, and Christopher and Adam just shrug and smile and they all have a good laugh.  Then they go out for drinks while Omnitron rebuilds the Warehouse again.

An idea that just occurred to me, that I don't think will happen, is an Ennead-esque deck but instead have it themed to all/some the heroes. Like a dark watch version, prime wardens, freedom five/six, and/or random.

kinda a "this team of heroes vs this team" show down. A co-op game with a more Vs. Feel, and in the end the players are happy and have a cool story.

The vengeful five match up to the freedom five...but they still need an intern of their own right? To match Unity. Maybe a single deck extra villain with rules to be stand alone or combined as a member of the vengeful 5 rotation...even one more deck would add a lot of variety.