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Non-turns?

15 posts · 634 views · started 2019-03-31 02:09 UTC
PA
payprplayn
2019-03-31 02:09 UTC
#1

I have observed on a couple of occasions that when Xtreme PW Fanatic’s innate power causes her to redirect her damage to Aeon Master, and Aeon Master is in the other battle zone, the damage does not cause Aeon Master to play an Aeon Man.  I'm wondering if this is intentional.  I suppose since one battle zone doesn't "see" the other, Aeon Master doesn't see Fanatic's turn as a turn, and thus the damage isn't the first in the turn. If this is the case, then I'm led to wonder, what "turn" is it in Aeon Master's battle zone? the last turn that was taken by an entity in that zone?  No turn at all? 

Edit: the answer apears to be no turn at all, since I just observed this same effect after taking a turn with Legacy in Aeon Master's battle zone in which Aeon Master took no damage.  Fanatic's turn was next, and she redirected damage across zones to Aeon Master.  No Aeon Man was played.  Still unsure if this is a bug or intended behavior.

TR
Trajector
2019-03-31 05:49 UTC
#2

I'm guessing the bug here is that Fanatic shouldn't be able to deal damage to a target that's not in the same battle zone she is.

PA
payprplayn
2019-03-31 13:12 UTC
#3

Possibly.  In fact, that’s how I initially expected it to work, but since the rules say things in one battle zone can’t affect things in the other unless the effect explicitly says otherwise, the question turns on what counts as explicitly saying otherwise.  I would have assumed that effects which don’t include the term “battle zone” need not apply, but Kill the Spirit is interesting, since it explicitly designates a specific target, and that target may be in the other battle zone. 

I don’t follow the various special rulings and clarifications, so I don’t know if the question of Kill the Spirit’s interaction with battle zones has been addressed, but I imagine it has, for no other reason than that it is implemented the way it is.  The Aeon Master thing is enough of an edge case that it may not have come up in testing, but the basic interaction between a hero variant’s innate power and one of the central mechanics of the new game mode surely must have.  Thus, I can only assume that Kill the Spirit is supposed to work across battle zones. However, I would still think that when it does it woud count as happening on some turn, though I’m not sure which.

CG
Cult_of_Gloom
2019-03-31 15:04 UTC
#4

Whats even better is that her incap ability works across battlezones. So you can have your entire team sitting in one battlezone punching each other and the damage will all fly over to OblivAeon if you can manage for a way for the hero with her incap ability and OblivAeon to start in the same battlezone and then have one or the other move by the end of her turn. Great if you can beat form 2 on that heroes turn then you have the rest of your hero team beating on him for free without extra card plays for a round.

BI
Bigbywolfe
2019-03-31 15:07 UTC
#5

Does Fanatics Power say it can damage a target in a different Battle Zone? If not, then it does not explicitly say that her Power can damage a target in a different battle zone.

Explicitly say it means explicitly say it.

Unless the powers that be state this one thing ignores a rule everything else follows (sometimes even illogically/un-thematically).

PA
payprplayn
2019-03-31 22:53 UTC
#6

It seems they have.  

MI
MigrantP
2019-04-01 00:28 UTC
#7

The bug with Fanatic's redirect will be fixed in the next update.

PA
payprplayn
2019-04-01 02:38 UTC
#8

Do you mean that it shouldn’t work across battle zones, or only that it should trigger Aeon Master?

WA
WalkingTarget
2019-04-01 14:48 UTC
#9

Almost assuredly that it shouldn’t work across battle zones since Fanatic’s abilities do not say that they work across battle zones.

MI
MigrantP
2019-04-01 15:36 UTC
#10

It shouldn't work across battle zones, because it doesn't say that it does. I should have this line from the rulebook permanently in my copy/paste buffer:

Cards and effects in one battle zone cannot affect or be affected by anything in the other battle zone, unless there is game text that says otherwise.

RY
RySmith6
2019-04-01 22:40 UTC
#11

Hmm, We could compile a list of those cards that explicitly do say otherwise. I would imagine it's only cards from the OBV expansion.
(I'm not counting "Move X to the other battle zone" as that still technically only affects things in the battle zone the effect originated in, or "Play this in the other battle zone" as nothing in the "other" battle zone could affect the originator of the card play)

OBV's Deck (Not counting the character booklet, because literally every page):

  1. Global Devastation
  2. Source of Foes (shield)

Scions and Scion deck

  1. Aeon Master(both sides)
  2. Aeon Assault
  3. Certain Finality
  4. Relentless Hunter (since it has an affect after the move, it is commanding a card in another battle zone at that point)
  5. Terrible Burden (If OBV is in the other zone)

Mission Deck

  1. Shattering Blow
  2. Bloodsworn Exhibition
  3. The Nations in Ruins

I thiiiink that's all of them.

Bonus points to anyone who can pin down what happens when an Akash Seed is played from the environment deck in the battle zone Akash isn't in. I have the wrong idea, mostly because I've wanted Akash seeds to be played to the environment play area, which doesn't work for a number of reasons.

DA
Dandolo
2019-04-02 18:29 UTC
#12

I believe regardless of which environment deck plays Akash'thriya's seed it is played in her play area and affects the battle zone she is in.

 

Also if her seeds are in an environment deck and that environment is removed from the game, her seeds seem to be removed from the game as well... I played a game yesterday where Alash survived the whole game but ended the game with only around 5 seeds in circulation.

P2
Powerhound_2000
2019-04-02 19:12 UTC
#13

That doesn’t seem like the correct behavior to me with the Seeds as that environment destruction is not worded like Deadline’s.  For OblivAeon it specifies to just remove environment cards.  

PH
Phantom5613
2019-04-07 18:42 UTC
#14

As far as I know they're still counted as hero cards, so I think if an environment deck is destroyed they just go to Akash's deck..

Is there a line in the official rulebook of the physical edition for this?

P2
Powerhound_2000
2019-04-07 18:46 UTC
#15

MigrantP over on Reddit has confirmed it’s a bug https://old.reddit.com/r/sentinelsmultiverse/comments/b9cngh/akash_vs_obliveaon_environment_removal_in_the/ek3op6y/