MC
McBehrer
2017-11-22 04:14 UTC
#1
I guess this week’s variant is The Wraith.
I would guess that unlocking Bunker is part of her prerequisites, but who knows really. Might as well make the thread, at any rate.
I guess this week’s variant is The Wraith.
I would guess that unlocking Bunker is part of her prerequisites, but who knows really. Might as well make the thread, at any rate.
Not in a place I can actually try for myself yet, but here's the KS update blurb about her if people want to think of some fun interaction there:
"Maia Montgomery is overworked and overpaid. That second part should be some small comfort, but she has most of her excess funds funneled to the Freedom Five in various convoluted ways. Even still, once in a while, she’ll use that money to come up with a new outfit and some exciting new gadgets.
As her time with the Freedom Five has taken her out of the shadows and into public light as a hero, she’s upgraded her look and kit many times. What’s the point of being The Wraith if you can’t look good doing it? While still maintaining a secret identity, that is."
Play three hairdryers in a row? Use every single one of her powers? Blow up all of her equipment? I don't know, haha.
Anyone wanna take bets on whether the (assumed) prerequisite game(s) for F5 Bunker are the same for Wraith?
So I tried to unlock both Wraith and Bunker. I will post Bunker here, and Wraith in the Wraith thread
Here's my Bunker Attempt:
1) I lost to Ultimate Progeny with Prime Wardens in Anubis.
2) I beat Progeny in Megalopolis with Freedom Five.
3) I beat Ambuscade in Temple of Zhu Long (Legacy, Bunker, Team leader Tachyon, Wraith). Wraith wasn't at full. I played all her equipment. Played Trust Fund ALOT so much so that i couldn't draw more cards. I played Them with the Impromptu Invention as well. I then defeated Ambuscade with a full on Inventory barrage.
No Unlock.
There's this weird graphical "glitch" that happens when I heal Bunker with someone else the first time. When he gets healed, his portrait brightens up. I will see if it's only because he was in the 2nd position, or if it's him.
Tried one game against gloomweaver in megalopolis and won. My goal was to play all 3 trust funds in one turn. I did thanks to argent adept but no unlock. Maybe we need to figure out bunker
May want to check which thread you're posting in…
Good guess, though. It's what I would have tried.
I did. I wrote similar things in Bunker and Wraith. I did write " Wraith wasn't at full. I played all her equipment. Played Trust Fund ALOT so much so that i couldn't draw more cards. I played Them with the Impromptu Invention as well. I then defeated Ambuscade with a full on Inventory barrage. No Unlock."
Is that not appropriate?
I missed the Wraith part in that post. my bad.
No worries! I was concerned I put the wrong psot int he wrong thread! We are all good.
Similairly I tried to play all three improtu inventions in round(which is much easier) and that didn't do nothing either
I did a 3H game vs Spite. Bunker, Fixer, Wraith. Locked Spite down with Hoist Chains, Stun Bolts and Smoke Bombs while I did stuff. Made sure to play Impromptu Invention and Trust Fund 5 times each and got most of her stuff out by the end by bouncing Tool Box back to Fixer every round. No luck.
Also set up Blade in Temple of Zhu Long vs TLT, Argent Adept, Tempest and Wraith. Played Impromptu Invention into Trust Fund on the same play phase five separate times. Nothing.
Maybe Trust fund has something to do with the Wraith unlock. Maybe play 3 trust funds in one turn?
I think I did that already, but I'll try again.
I decided to try something simple, but related: discards from hero effects. I had Wraith discard 30 cards from hero effects (Micro Assembler, Visionary base power, Trust Fund), then she dumped 25 cards on Freedom Tower’s turn just for kicks. Not that simple.
Until proven otherwise, I’m going to guess that the FV unlock conditions are going to be on the high end of the complexity range we’ve seen for unlocks… given that we’re running out of things to unlock. I’d be happy to be wrong, though!
TheRebelYell already tried that a few posts up.
There hasn't been an unlock yet where the characters have had to do something themselves where they need to combine with another deck to accomplish. There are lots of unlocks where character X must be present and a few where another character may have to play cards or use certain powers, but there's never a case where any of the characters involved need other players to give them extra card plays or power uses. Wraith could be our first exception, but so far, any unlock requirement can be attained with the hero's own deck and doesn't require combinations.
My point is, since Wraith couldn't possibly ever play 3 Trust Funds on the same turn by herself, it likely isn't her unlock condition. Play Impromptu Invention 3 times followed by Trust Fund, that's possible because she can do that all with her own cards.
Of course, I could be totally wrong, but it's a pattern I noticed and might want to keep in mind when we're all trying for extreme conditions to test.
That's a great theory, but unfortunately Visionary Unleashed, Chrono Ranger Best of Times, and Omnitton-U all require other heroes to do something.
I missed that. At work and just kind of glanced through. Sorry about that.
Yeah, but each of those requires a specific hero for story reasons. None of them have mechanical requirements that they can't fulfil themselves (although many are made much easier with specific allies).
They do need other heroes, but those other heroes are solo acts doing their own thing in the same game. There's no interaction of the hero decks with one another, they just all need to be in the same place doing things at the same time. Otherwise, they can ignore one another. Argent Adept does need to target Dark Visionary, but he didn't need help from anyone else to pull off his objective. He did it on his own with his own deck. Unity can put out all her cards without help from any other character. Chrono-Ranger just needed Tachyon to be around.
True, but I wouldn't pass it by them to make another hero required (one from the base game of course). The difference between unlocking the very first ones, Rook CIty Wraith vs. Freedom Six Wraith, is far more complex. With the Visionary Unleashed unlock, I think we can see that it could be a particular hero do something to Wraith. For example, have Legacy take damage from Wraith's smoke bombs, or something. I am not saying that another specific hero is required, just saying we shouldn't rule it out.
At this moment, we still can't rule anything out just yet. That's it.
Well, we can rule out that it's ask MigrantP pretty, pretty please. :)
You could try asking Christopher nicely.
I'm pretty sure the answer would be, "That would be telling"
Followed by *Smokebomb*
I don't take damage! YAY
That’s assuming you have the lowest hp, and are a hero target.
Given our status as villains, I’d say it doesn’t help us one bit.
I still take one less damage! So do you! Profane zealot for the win!
DATA: Played a game with Challenge Akash in Freedom Tower with Rogue Agent KNYFE, OX, GrandPa Legs and base Wraith. Wraith did all the things. Double use of all powers mutltiple plays of all her cards, a max inventory barrage for the win. no unlock
Maybe she needs to end the game with certain cards in play. I really don’t have any good ideas to test.
Plus I also take 2 less the first time I am dealt damage each turn. Plus I regain 2hp a turn. So pretty sweet deal, overall.
Since it is all about funding the efforts of the F5, I'm thinking that it needs to be in F5 tower.
Going to try a game wherein I try a few things (some of which I know have been tried):
1. Play Trust Fund a bunch of times.
2. End the game with every other member having every piece of equipment that they have in play (multiple copies where applicable).
3. Have them draw a bunch of cards from the Wraith's Arsenal.
So apparently there's been a confirmed Wraith unlock. Anyone have any info/screencaps of it so we can work our way from there?
I don't see anything on Steam, Reddit, Twitter, or Facebook. Where's the unlock report?
Ah, pardon me, I read a comment by MigrantP incorrectly in the FV Bunker thread.
I had Rook City:Wraith, World's Greatest Legacy and Visionary against Spite in Rook City. Trust Fund was played 3 times. All of Wraith's equipment was out. She dealt the final blow to Spite. All her damage was done by Stun Bolts. No other heroes did damage to Spite. No unlock.
Same battle, but aginst Spite:Agent of Gloom. Wraith had all equipment out, had all other cards in hand and dealt the final blow. Trust Fund was played once. No unlock.
My thoughts were that besides the costume similarities, Freedom Five Wraith was also about coming to peace with killing Spite and finally putting him down. I don't know if that's actually true or not, but the mask similarity to Spite and the Peaceful Hills cemetary led me to jump to that conclusion. If it is the case though, nothing I've done is unlocking it.
We have an unlock on Steam that talked about doing what I was trying to do with Trust Fund... except against Progeny in Megalopolis instead of Spite in Rook City.
Check Handelabra's mentions on Twitter for the screenshot.
This is also making me think that poor Bunker got hit with the comparatively bizarre unlock condition again. I've played Progeny/Megalopolis with the base F5 at least 20 times with many, many potential pre-game combinations, and I haven't stumbled on either Bunker or Wraith.
Well, there's definitely more to it than "play three Trust Funds with F5 vs. Progeny in Megalopolis", because I just did that and didn't get it. Controlled the devil out of Progeny's deck with Infrared Eyepieces, didn't do a whole lot else with Wraith. AZ did most of the work.
Over on the Steam boards, it sounds like they're pretty sure it's an extensive setup that follows Progeny's canon victories:
Unlocked with the steps above. Bunker was incapacitated, but he was the only one. I played Trust Fund at least five times, combined with fleet of foot, grappling hook, impromtu invention and infared eyepiece I lost count of how many cards I drew.
Got it. No one was incapped. Drew at least 10 extra cards, and played Trust Fund 5 times.
Okay, knowing you can have heroes incapacitated helps a ton.
Verified in my screenshot folder that I've done all those pre-games. Have played multiple F5 games v. Progeny in Megalopolis this morning, in each I played Trust Fund and Impromptu Invention 3+ times, but never up to 5. No unlock.
There has got to be something else that I'm not fulfilling.
Ditto. The best part, and my most favourite part of Progeny in megalopolis, is having the ability NOT to play cards 5 turns in a row! It's so great when you think Trust Fund needs to be played.
Played 3 Trust Funds in a F5 win against Progeny in Megalopolis. Previously lost w/ PWs in Tomb and lost with DW in Rook City. No unlock.
All heroes drew a ton of cards so there’s an element I’m missing… I’m going to try losing with the F5 in Rook City and Megalopolis and then repeating the attempt.
@Donaldo you are missing the (probably) required loss against Progeny with the base F5 in Rook City, at the very least. Additionally we're pretty sure those three losses have to be in order.
UNLOCKED
Steps:
1) Lose to Progeny with Prime Wardens in Tomb of Anubis
2) lose to Progeny with Freedom Five (REGULAR) in Rook City
(2.1?) Lose to Progeny with Dark Watch in Rook City
3) Beat Progeny with Freedom Five (REGULARr) in Megalopolis. Wraith must use three Trust Funds in that game.
I also used a lot of infrared eyepieces.
Attached Image
Unlocked,
After my unsuccessful game above lost with F5 at Rook City.
Won with F5 at Megalopolis with 3 Trust Funds and many uses of Infrared Eyepiece.
Seems to strongly suggest the F5 Rook City loss is needed.
This was on Mobile, I’ll try skiping the DW game when I try on Steam.
I already submitted a ticket to Handelabra. But I found this to be kind of funny!
Ermine stole the opening remark from the video game and replaced it with FPO.
Yeah, I just unlocked FF Wraith with the "three prerequisites, then win against Progeny in Megalopolis with Wraith playing all three Trust Funds" method.
If that's not the actual condition, maybe it has to do with cards drawn/discarded, such that Trust Funds complete the condition but are not themselves required? Like, "Wraith must draw X cards via card effects" or "Wraith must discard X cards via card effects"?
Could be discard cards. Progeny and Megalopolis has a lot fo cards thta make you discard.
Got it, following that exact same plan. Now we just need Bunker…
We also need to test:
The final game has to be in Megalopolis
It has to be against Progeny
It has to be three Trust Funds, as opposed to "draw X through card abilities"/"discard Y through card abilities"
It has to be a win
Just tried the 3 prerequisites and then 3 Trust Funds, no unlock. That being said I don't think it's discards either, Progeny had Blight out all game, I was discarding all game.
I've got a fail log here. https://pastebin.com/3xv8c8gh
The previous 3 games were the prerequisites in order. Wraith played 3 Trust Funds (almost 3 turns in a row if it hadn't been for that hostage situation) and did a good amount of other discarding and drawing. She had almost drawn her whole deck by the end of the game.
There must be something else we're missing, then. The 3 Trust Funds seem to be key, but if just drawing and even discarding lots of cards over the course of the game isn't doing it...
Unlocked (https://pastebin.com/zmkjnvz4) via what seems to be the usual set-up:
Possibly relevant other things:
Finally got it on another try. All I did with Wraith was throw out Utility Belt / Eyepiece / Eyepiece and use the Eyepieces all the time, plus play Trust Fund exactly 3 times.
Probably would have had this on day 1 if I'd done my prereq games in the right order, though I do appreciate the gold star from MigrantP. I'm more relieved than anything; now I feel like I can keep going with the rest of them without worrying about whether I've done the prereqs right.
Oh, also - congrats to Meemitone for joining the "enough variant hall of fame spots to make a playable team" club! You should try out your HOF team sometime if you haven't already. :)
Oh, hey, they correctly credited Braithwhite for PW Haka despite his forgetting to post the screenshot. They were showing me for a while since I was the first to actually do that. If he scrambles, he may be the first, and probably only, HoF member to have too many spots to make a team out of them! (Although one of his five is Kismet, who technically wouldn't count for that... PseudonymTweetr and Aarn_And_Off are tied with 4 actual heroes.)
Here's my unlock log.
Okay, hypothesis time:
After the unlock games, the Freedom Five (original versions) must defeat Progeny in Megalopolis. Wraith must play at Trust Fund and Impromptu Invention three times each.
This is based on the intro text that says "she has most of her excess funds funneled to the Freedom Five in various convoluted ways", but also "once in a while, she’ll use that money to come up with a new outfit and some exciting new gadgets".
Can anyone disprove this by unlocking F5 Wraith without using any impromptu inventions? (Or with only 2, etc)
I only played Invention twice, and still got the unlock
For the prerequisites, can Progeny be set to Ultimate for the rounds we need to lose?
Okay… anyone not play it at all?
I think I used him on Ultimate for all three, go for it!
I can't swear that I didn't play Impromptu Invention 3 times--I might have--but I don't think I did.
MigrantP, on the Steam forum, has confirmed that Progeny should be required. ("Should be" because there's a bug.)
This leads me to think that "win against Progeny in Megalopolis" is probably required--we need to play out the defeat of Progeny with some sort of Wrath-specific condition. Maybe it's "three Trust Funds must be played and all of her equipment must be out"? Or some number of it? Did How much of Wraith's gear did people have in play at win?
Oh, crud, hang on.
Did anybody unlock with a team other than the base Freedom Fine?
Did we ever explicitly say we thought (or didn’t think) they were required?
Based on the power that the promo has, I'm assuming that it's something like:
(after the prereqs)
Win with Freedom Five against Progeny in Megalopolis. Wraith must draw at least X cards. Wraith must discard at least Y cards.
I think we're getting hung up on the specific mechanisms (Trust Fund, Eyepiece, Impromptu, etc), when in actuality, it's probably something similar to my guess.
Data: lost the required games, then Freedom 5 in Megalopolis vs Progeny. Wraith drew and discarded a bunch of cards (more then 10 each way) and the game ended with the Wraith getting the killing blow. She had 3 cards in hand and everyone else had at least 6 cards. No incaps. No unlock
I looked through the measly 3 logs we have on here (Escher's unlock, jsalomon617's unlock, and my fail) to see if there's any clear pattern with draws or discards. All of us played the prerequisite games and played Trust Fund at least 3 times.
Escher's Wraith drew 67 cards, jsalomon's drew 35, and mine drew 32. So unless the cutoff for drawing is 33, 34, or 35, that's not it.
Escher's Wraith discarded 19 cards, jsalomon's discarded 10, and mine discarded 12. So it can't be purely number of discards.
Looking at the ratio of draws to discards, the unlocks were 3.5 or more and my fail was 2.67, but it probably isn't just that, because you could get that by just drawing a lot and hardly ever discarding. It could be something like discard at least 10 cards and draw at least 3 times as many cards as you discarded, but that seems unlikely.
I also looked at draws and discards relative to how many turns The Wraith had. Escher's Wraith had 23 turns for 2.91 draws/turn and 0.826 discards/turn. jsalomon's Wraith had 9 turns for 3.89 draws/turn and 1.11 discards/turn. My Wraith had 10 turns for 3.2 draws/turn and 1.2 discards/turn. So it definitely doesn't seem like there's anything there.
Also, for those concerned about Impromptu Invention, Escher played it 7 times, jsalomon617 played it 2 times, and I played it 3 times. Edit: apparently I played it 4 times. One of them was with Tachyon's incap ability, so it was listed as Tachyon plays instead of Wraith plays, so I missed it. Still doesn't change anything though.
Now that we have a general sense of what needs to be done, we really need more logs to analyze the nitty gritty details.
Perfect timing on that request--here's my Wraith success/Bunker fail to add to the pile. 34 draws, only 9 discards, all 3 Impromptu Inventions, reshuffled her deck on the very last turn.
Edit: That last looks like a consistency so far. So far it could be as simple as: With the Freedom Five, defeat Progeny in Megalopolis. The Wraith must deplete her deck and reshuffle her trash into it.
Trust Fund and other +draws certainly help with that but may or may not be required.
We also haven't tested other environments or teams, although MigrantP generously let us know that Progeny is required.
Edit 2: Never mind, there's a log on Steam that has her draw only 30 cards, 2 Impromptu Inventions, and not empty her deck.
It's not that. I did that with no unlock. I also played three trust funds in that same game, at least one of which was off of an impromptu invention. I played another game later with 5 trust funds and got the unlock. I also discarded a bunch of cards in that game, but if even so, my best guess is that wraith has to discard at least 12-15 cards or so, possibly with some minimum number of trust funds played. There might also be some drawing requirement (although with that much discarding, a drawing requirement is implied, even if it's not explicit). For an officiall guess, though, let's try
[after fulfilling prerequisites] win a game vs. progeny with the freedom five in Megalopolis. The wraith must discard at least 15 cards.
Edit: Whoops, I missed the part where you said only 9 discards. I missed the unlock with more than that (I'm pretty sure), so it can't be a simple number of discards.
Maybe total number of draws and/or discards for all heroes rather than just Wraith?
Just got her. Here is my guess:
Lose the 3 games as previously defined. Defeat Progeny in Megalopolis with the base Freedom 5. The Wraith must play trust fund 3 times and deal the final blow.
Note: I thought I had done this previously, but I now wonder if I had only played 2 trust funds instead of 3.
Another possibility is the all heroes nees to end the game with a minimum hand size.
I was just thinking about that. I don't know how to generate logs, but I feel like I drew a bunch of cards with all heroes in my failed attempt. bunker had ammo drop out for essentially the whole game, there were mulitple plays of both bolster allies and fleet of foot, a couple of auxillary power sources, a whole bunch of research grants, and the aforementioned trust funds. I think three heroes emptied their decks, but it might have just been 2.
Edit: This was in response to Dandolo's suggestion, as I started it before Waedens made his post. However having seen the latter, I can say that it tracks with my experience. Bunker was final in my first (failed) attempt, and Wraith on my successful one.
Someone on Steam noticed, correctly, that Smoke Bombs was played (or, more often but not always, Impromptu'd into play) in every successful unlock. Each of the fails with 3 Trust Funds lack it. The ARG comic mentions that the Wraith's "superior 'hit-and-run' strategy" was critical for their success, and Smoke Bombs could represent that. The Wraith can be incapped, though, so nothing needs to stay in play at the end. So, hypothesis: After completing the prerequisite games, use the Freedom Five to defeat Progeny in Megalopolis. The Wraith must play Trust Fund at least 3 times and Smoke Bombs must come into play.
I had Smoke Bombs in play for mine and did play Impromptu Invention at least twice.
I don’t have a log but specifically recall using Smoke bombs in my successful unlock… that could certainly be a requirement.
I also had smoke bombs in play for my failure. I think I Impromptu'd it in, but I'm not positive.
Did it redirect damage? Perhaps it is a requirment that the Wraith must use smoke bombs to redirect damage.
I had The Wraith deal the final blow (while also doing the other things we currently think are important) and didn't get the unlock. Also, there's a success where Absolute Zero dealt the final blow.
I did not deal the final blow, nor did I have anywhere NEAR all of my equipment cards.
I used Stun Bolts and Eyepiece, and also had Utility Belt, Targeting Computer, Smoke Bombs, and maybe Mega Computer, but not Razor Orphanage or Throwing Knives. I also avoided playing Inventory Barrage and Combat Stance, but I DID play Suture Self and Grappling Hook.
My guess is, you need draw additional cards through (3?) of your own, different methods; Grappling Hook, Eyepiece, Invention, Trust Fund. I would say all 4, but apparently some have gotten it without doing all 4.
Or maybe Stun Bolts is involved, since her character card has lightning around her hands.
All I have to go on is my screenshot, but I had Wraith deal the final blow, so I can see her play area. I had Utility Belt, two Eyepieces, Smoke Bombs, and a Mega Computer in play. (The other card is Throat Jab, which I played to get the final blow.)
Unlocked on Steam:
I played today where Wraith had nearly all her equipment out, had Smoke Bombs for nearly the entire game, (as soon as I could get them) used ImpromptueInvention, Trust Funds, Eyepiece. I'm think I used grappling hook once, but I have normally been using Tachyon to deal with ongoing and environment since she has more card plays per turn, so I might not have. I had the prereqs. Bunker dealt the final blow. No unlock.
Considering the nature of the unlocks, perhaps there's a condition that Wraith has to avoid.
Now I made a list of all the cards played by The Wraith in all 5 unlock logs in this thread as well as my fail log. Let's see what they have in common.
Cards played in all successes:
Impromptu Intervention (at least 2)
Infrared Eyepiece (at least 1)
Smoke Bombs (at least 1)
Trust Fund (at least 3)
Cards not played in any success (and thus possibly, but probably not, forbidden):
Combat Stance
Inventory Barrage
Comparing this list to my fail log, the only difference is that I didn't play Smoke Bombs. So I'm pretty sure that's the key. The next thing to test is whether or not they actually need to redirect and/or reduce damage or just be played. All of the success logs so far have them redirecting and reducing damage, but the log on Steam that MindWanderer mentioned only does it once, so at least there's no required number of times.
So based on all that, my guess is: After completing the prerequisite losses against Progeny, defeat Progeny with the base Freedom Five in Megalopolis. The Wraith must play Trust Fund at least 3 times. Smoke Bombs must redirect damage at least once. (Not sure if we need to include something about Impromptu Invention and/or Infrared Eyepiece or if they were just coincidences)
Well, my guess was wrong because I just got the unlock with playing Smoke Bombs, but never letting it redirect anything. I played it once early on with Impromptu Invention and then used my extra play to destroy it with Inventory Barrage (which also proves that card isn't forbidden) and again in the last round right before Absolute Zero finished off Progeny. However, unless Migrant P is slacking, it can't just be complete the prereqs, defeat Progeny with the FF in Megalopolis, play Trust Fund 3 times and play Smoke Bombs, because MindWanderer already guessed exactly that 6 hours ago.
Edit: Here's my unlock log https://pastebin.com/9X2VgN3R
Unlocked!
Did the three pre-requisite games
Then just played three trust funds on one game. All heroes were not incapped
After completing the prerequisite losses against Progeny, defeat Progeny with the base Freedom Five in Megalopolis. The Wraith must play Trust Fund at least 3 times. No heroes may be incapped.
There's a screenshot of an unlock on Steam where the Wraith is incapacitated. So maybe it's "no heroes other than the Wraith may be incapacitated"?
UXM266, I see you played Combat Stance, so now we've confirmed there are no cards you're not allowed to play. At least that's something.
Has anyone unlocked her NOT in Negalopolis or NOT against Progeny?
Migrant P said Progeny is supposed to be required, but apparently there's a bug where you can get the unlock without him. Not sure if that's been fixed yet. And the way the rest of the unlock follows the Progeny story, I'd be very surprised if Megalopolis is not required, but I don't know if anyone has actually tested it.
Unlocked. So I basically played all of Wraiths 'tricky' cards. Three Trust Funds, Throat Strike, Reduced Progenys attack with Stun Bolt and smoke bombs. No Combat Stance, no Inventory Barrage though
Can it be reduce damage as well? She uses stun gloves, so many small run bolts and smoke bombs? Use stealth as well? Can it be that simple?
That's a good idea for a new thing to check. I can take a look at it after work.
I reduced damage with both smoke bombs and stun bolts in my failed attempt. I wish I had a log, but I don't know how to make them. I did play on steam... are they automatic?
Figured it out. Unfortunately, the log.copy.txt is not the 2nd most recent game for some reason, so I don't have a log for my failure, which would, I think, be more useful than one for my success. But anyway, here's the log of my unlock. You can see that I drew it out at the end to make sure I played a whole bunch of trust funds..https://pastebin.com/bS6DS3xT
Okay, so maybe I'm not waiting until after work to look at this. Most of the unlock logs have The Wraith reducing a lot of damage, and in my fail log she only reduced 4, but then there's this log https://pastebin.com/Jm6w2sVr where she only reduced 7 and got the unlock. That doesn't technically rule out a condition based on damage reduction, but that would be an awfully low limit, especially with how easy it is for The Wraith to reduce damage.
At this point fail logs are probably more helpful to see what people aren't doing when they fail.
It could involve that, AND Trust Funds?
Oh, I'm pretty sure 3 Trust Funds is a condition, but all the logs I looked at had that, so it was a non-factor.
My overall strategic approach was similar in both of my attempts, with wraith using stun bolt/infrared eyepiece most turns. However, a lot of damage was negated in that game (through Throat Jab and Hypersonic Assault), so it's possible not as much was reduced as I thought. I'm ~98% sure that smoke bombs reduced some damage in that game, and Stun Bolt definitely did, but it's possible that it wasn't very much, so "must reduce x damage" or "smoke bombs must reduce x damage" seems like a plausible condition to me.
That fits with what I see in my tries as well. I negate nearly all the damage in my games thanks to Hypersonic Assault, Throat Jabs or Heroic Interception. In my last try, I think I used the Stun Bolt once and Smoke Bombs redirected twice.
Edit: And no unlock yet
Reducing damage may just be a byproduct of the fight itself. Remember this IS a fight against Progeny, and not reducing/negating his damage will normally lead to a short fight...
Alright, here's my summary of what we know so far:
Three Trust Funds is almost definitely required
Migrant P confirmed Progeny is required
There are no cards Wraith isn’t allowed to play
There’s a very good chance Smoke Bombs is required
Smoke Bombs does not have to reduce or redirect any damage
Infrared Eyepiece could be required, but is probably just played every time because it’s useful
Impromptu Invention could be required, but is probably just played every time because why would you not? It’s like the best card in the game
If damage reduction is required, it’s no more than 7 caused by The Wraith
We don’t know if Megalopolis is required, but story-wise it makes sense
We don’t know if the rest of the Freedom Five is required, but it thematically makes sense
We don’t know if variants are allowed
I was going to try and test some of those features, but I messed up and forgot halfway through the game that I was trying to get the achievement without Infrared Eyepiece, and played Infrared Eyepiece. So I can only guarantee that using smoke bombs a lot, multiple Trust Funds, the Eyepiece and Impromptu Invention all together got me the variant, which... I mean, we knew that already.
I take it you're also playing the 3 trust funds we're pretty sure are required? If so, logs would be helpful. I didn't know how to get them when I failed to unlock, and I can't go back and get the failed log, which really sucks. If you don't know how either, you can find out here.
did all three prereq games and then fought Progeny in Megalopolis with standard FF
Played three trust funds, smoke bombs, impromptu invention at least three times, never played Infrared Eyepiece. Did not unlock.
Ooh goody, another fail log! Thank you! It looks like your Wraith only reduced a total of 2 damage throughout the game, so if there is in fact a damage reduction requirement, the fail could be due to that and not from not playing Infrared Eyepiece though.
So, we're going on about my fifth round in a row with 'hero cards cannot be played' as a condition
I think I hate this unlock.
Here's another one. I must have had every single Wraith card in play by the final one. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, unless I screwed up the prereq battles.
I'm going to bed.
Not much to add, other than a sucessful unlock log.
I'm on IOS, so no logs for me. 3 trust funds were played, as we seem to think that's a requirement, it's the only thing I can do now that seems worthwhile.
I'll start trying games with variations on the list rjc917 put up and see what I can determine.
This log is actually really helpful, because you got the unlock with The Wraith only reducing a total of 3 damage. So now I'm pretty sure damage reduction is not a condition, just a usual byproduct of fighting Progeny.
This one has me stumped. As far as I can tell, no theory we've currently thought of accounts for this one being a fail. Which is good-it means we can learn something from it. Unless you actually did screw up the prereqs somehow, which would just be really annoying if that's the case.
I am on iOS so no log, but I just got an unlock in a game where the following was true (some are things talked about here, some are random tidbits):
- Played Trust Fund four times.
- Had the entire deck in hand or in play.
- Wraith did no damage.
- Had in play: 1x Smoke Bombs, 1x Utility Belt, 2x Infrared Eyepiece, 1x Mega Computer (destroyed by Progeny). Never played any other Equipment.
- I had double Eyepiece in play from about turn 2 or 3, used Stealth one time (turn 1), and never again.
- No Heroes were incapped.
Well, hopefully, this leads to a breakthrough somewhere.
It's entirely possible I didn't use the proper variants in the prereq battles. Annoying. I'll try again today.
[edit] That's probably what it was. I just unlocked.
Though actually, has anyone tried just doing the Rook City F5 loss and then this unlock? Three loss battles for an unlock seems... excessive.
I'm pretty sure the unlocks prereqs are the same for each of the FV and we've gotten confirmation that you need all 3 losses, but you only need to do them once to unlock all 5 variants. 3 losses + 5 seperate games for specific variant unlocks =8,/5= which averages 1.6 games per variant. I believe we have at least 10 other variants that require 2 or more games.
Since FV Wraiths power involves additional card draws, maybe the unlock involves not just Trust Fund, but the number of cards she draws as well. I think the fact that Infrared eyepiece, Trust Fund, and Impromptu inventions are being used in most of the unlocks supports this theory. Of course, aside from Trust Fund, I would use those cards anyway because they are amazing.
What was the theory with Santa Guise, 25 card draws mas o menos. Seems like a good place to start.
It's not just that.
I've gone through my deck multiple times in several non-unlocks.
True, I might be way off. I think I saw earlier that it looks like Smoke Bombs may be involved as well. I also think Trust Fund might be a symptom and not the cause, however it is a card I rarely ever use with Wraith so I wouldn’t put it past Cristopher to have it as a condition.
So maybe it’s something like
Play Smoke Bombs and possibly have it reduce a certain amount of damage
Play 3 (I think that’s all she has) copies of Trust Fund
Draw 25+ cards
And of course win.
I’ll need to take some time tonight to go through any logs we have here.
Damage reduction is definitely not one of the conditions, as per some of the above successes.
I've done all of that in failed unlocks, and I've done all the pre-reqs.
It would be great if someone could test for a card draw requirement. The fewest cards I see The Wraith draw in an unlock log is 30. It's going to be hard to not draw too many cards to test this, since you're automatically drawing 12 just from the three Trust Fund plays. Maybe turn off automatic card drawing in your options and/or reset until you get a game where you start with 2 or 3 Trust Funds in hand.
I managed to unlock Wraith and Bunker at the same time. Log is attached. I didn't do anything particularly strange with Wraith. I played all three of her trust fund cards, and reduced a bunch of damage with smoke bombs and stun bolts. it ended up being a pretty long game. I was going for the bunker unlock and had to wait forever to find an omni Cannon.
The logs I've been able to go through have the following in common:
1. Smoke Bombs was in play (don't think damage reduction is a factor here since 1 log only prevented 1 damage)
2. Minimum 3 Trust Funds were played (may be a symptom and not the cause, but I wouldn't put it past Christopher to include a card which is rarely used in the unlock condition)
3. The Wraith drew 30+ cards..32 was the lowest so gonna round down to 30.
4. The Wraith was not incapacitated
5. As noted before they all also had Infrared Eyepiece, Utility Belt, and all of her standard gear out. (These I believe are just cards we all would normally have out)
I've also looked at a previous fail log which met all 4 of the items above which begs the question: Did the player follow the pre-req games as laid out by MigrantP exactly meaning
1. First lose a game versus Progeny anywhere but Rook City and Megalopolis using all 5 of the Prime Wardens (NOT EXTREME).
2. Second lose a game versus Progeny in Rook City using the Dark Watch and only the 4 current members of Dark Watch, no guest stars.
3. Third lose a game versus Progeny in Rook City using the Freedom Five (non-variants).
Ok, we have Bunker. We have Tachyon. We can do this.
I think we are secure in these core facts:
So if I can burn an unlock, then what would I need to do?
Try playing a game where the only things you have The Wraith do are play 3 Trust Funds and Smoke Bombs. The fewer cards you have to draw to achieve that, the better. I'd recommend turning off auto card draw and resetting until you've got at least 2 Trust Funds in your starting hand.
And of course win against Progeny in Megalopolis and have completed the prerequisites and only use the vanilla FF.
I just unlocked, unfortunately I wasn’t really focusing on what needed checking though.
Definitely played 3 trust funds, as we’ve all come to expect now, had smoke bombs and made copious use of eyepieces.
Other than making sure to use the trust funds I pretty much just played her as I would normally.
Hopefully the log might provide some use for those who go over them though.
And I’d also suggest starting small on the draws. A minimum of 12 card draws will happen if you start with 3 Trust Funds and a Smoke Bomb in hand. So maybe 15. If that doesn’t unlock it than try 20 and so on.
Do we know this is all that is needed. I could do a few runs to test it out. But has anyone unlocked by only playing three Trust Funds and Smoke Bombs?
You could start there if you’d like with the only cards she draws being the 12 from Trust Fund. And with a Smoke Bomb out.
Every unlock log I've seen so far has also played Infrared Eyepiece and (I believe 2) Impromptu Inventions. We're currently assuming that's just a coincidence caused by the usefulness of those cards, but it hasn't really been tested.
I think we also still need to test if The Wraith can be incapped.
I think I've got it: Has anyone unlocked the Wraith wiht incapacitated characters on their team?
Because I played 3 trust funds, Smoke bombs, recycled my Wraith's deck at least 5 times (not joking) unlocked FVT & FVB, and didn't unlock FVW.
So my hypothesis: After the Prereqs (Alternate title: pre-req it up), Defeat Progeny with the Regular Freedom Five Members in Megalopolis. The Wraith must play Trust Fund at least 3 times, Smoke Bombs must have been in play at some point, and no characters may be incapacitated.
There is a Steam post that unlocked both Tachyon and Wraith in one game.
I would hypothesize that all F5 can be unlocked in a single game (once all are available and after meeting pre-reqs) because it makes the most thematic sense, and would be a very cool achievement as well. If the hypothesis is true, then each individual unlock condition cannot be mutually exclusive.
Hmm…
Than I wonder what I was missing with Wraith…
@Blackfang108 Who was incapped in your game? Was it The Wraith or someone else? Because there could be a condition that The Wraith can't be incapped and that wouldn't be incompatible with the condition that Tachyon needs to be incapped.
Only Tachyon. Everyone else was in the 20s (or at least high teens). The game went LONG, as the last two turret modes for Bunker were in the last 5 cards, and then I had to wait for CQC to come up in Megalopolis after destroying Rooftop Combat.
Everyone except Legacy shuffled their deck.
Hmm, that's really weird then. I don't suppose you have a log.
I'm assuming you also played Impromptu Invention and Infrared Eyepiece (I can't imagine going through your deck 5 times without them), so the fail couldn't possibly be caused by a lack of them.
Quote from the Tachyon thread, but moved over here as suggested by broccoli.
I totally agree with all this based on my analysis, but Blackfang108 unlocked Bunker and Tachyon in the same game where he thought he should have unlocked The Wraith and didn't, so that means he must have been using the Vanilla Freedom Five and correctly completed the prereqs. Maybe there's something The Wraith isn't allowed to do. I don't know what it could be though. I've already determined there's no cards she's not allowed to play. Haven't specifically checked powers or damage. If there's an upper draw limit it would be so ridiculously high to essentially be a pointless condition.
Problem being, I'm on Android, so dont' have a log, so it's possible I only played Trust Fund twice. (Dual Eyepieces burns through the deck.)
I just slogged through a game with the Wraith only doing the following:
Played 3 Trust Funds
Played 1 Smoke Bomb
Draw ~15 Cards
No unlock. That sucked. Gonna try again but this time do 20 draws.
On my wraith unlock everyone was incapped except Bunker.
You can get the log on Android, as long as you haven't overwritten it yet. It's in Main Storage/Android/data/com.handelabra.Sentinels/files/log.txt
Believe me, I've played games since then.
I'm still a fresh guinea pig for any unlock theories.
I haven't been able to try mine yet, but I have a guess. What if we're focusing on the Trust Funds, when they're only an indirect cause? Has someone said
Req it up, then play against Progeny in Mega with the Vanilla Freedom Five. Wraith must draw at least 30 cards, and must have Smoke Bombs in play. (Or maybe it's X equipments, and Smoke Bombs is just the common one by chance?)
I am never fighting Progeny again. Lost track of how many times I lost or had to reset after not getting the cards I needed but I think I got the condition.
And seriously?
You sure? There are two more F5 members to unlock, and I'm sure they require the same scenario.
Awesome, so we now know 20 is our card draw requirement. You did the same thing with 15 earlier and it didn't work, right? Did you play Infrared Eyepiece or Impromptu Invention at all? I'm assuming not.
I think this is probably it, but if not, we might need to reexamine the 3 Trust Fund assumption like people have suggested.
So perhaps I will test by just drawing 20 cards and playing only Smoke Bombs and Infrared Eyepiece (not needed, but it makes Progeny so much easier). If that fails, I'll try including Trust Funds one at a time.
Sounds like a plan.
The community has discovered the official unlock condition for Freedom Five Wraith!
First, play the Prerequisite Games. Then, the Freedom Five (non-variant team members) must defeat Progeny in Megalopolis. During that game, Trust Fund must be played at least 3 times. The Wraith must draw at least 20 cards and play Smoke Bombs at least once.
The Prerequisite Games are: First, the Prime Wardens (all variant members) must be defeated by Progeny anywhere other than Rook City or Megalopolis. Then, Dark Watch (all variant members) must by defeated by Progeny in Rook City. Then, the Freedom Five (non-variant members) must be defeated by Progeny in Rook City.
Yay, we got it. :D Now we can dedicate our efforts on AZ this week!
Much like Extremist Sky-Scraper, I think I know what to do for Absolute Zero.
Happy day! :D
Given the previous unlocks involving things people would never (rarely) do with these characters I’m going to guess AZ’s unlock involves playing all of his Sub-Zero Atmospheres and every copy of Glacial Structure and never playing his modules. And things you would normally do, deal himself a ton of fire and cold damage which seems to be the condition for all of his unlocks so far.
I think with Legacy getting his Danger Sense out would be a no brainer since it involves the environment like his new power. And the thing that is rarely played by him? Surge of Strength maybe or Superhuman Durability (I rarely play that one).
Absolute Zero must deal absolutely zero damage!
If Subzero Atmosphere is involved in the unlock, I may flip a table.
Guess it's better than flipping Progeny. :\
What's wrong with Subzero Atmosphere? It was quite usefull with Progeny, until he hit me at the start, then destroyed my ongoing and hit me again…
But I like the card!
Or he hits Zero during start, incaps him, and double-dips.
(Subzero Atmosphere is a cool card).
But yeah, hoping that his requirement isn't too setup heavy. Otherwise, it's gonna be a pain.
I remeber playing SZA when Progeny has Scion of Storms out and his next card was Time of Tribulations. Ducked the +2 damage on all of his hits AND got rid of Scion of Storm.
Yeah, Subzero Atmosphere is good for avoiding Progeny's damage dealing cards.
As for Legacy, I often play Superhuman Durability. With Lead from the Front, Legacy ends up tanking a lot. If you can do anything to reduce little bits of damage, (Energy Bracers, Smoke Bombs) you can reduce damage by a ridiculous amount with Superhuman Durability. Surge of Strength is hit or miss. It's often last on my list of add ons, but usually because all his other cards are so much better.
Can someone help me see where I went wrong? If I did?
I am rather certain I got the Preeqs in. You only have to do them once right? I did them all in an afternoon a few weeks ago.
I was going for Legacy, but noticed I was at a stable portion for a moment so I went for Wraith as well. Danger Sense and Next Evolution (Radiant) + Lead from the Front for Flip side of Progeny and many many Eyepiece draws (Plus 4 trust funds) - I never increased damage with Legacy even once, just to make sure.
https://pastebin.com/XFM8trgG
Does Danger Sense not count? I could see that being the case, or does both Danger sense/Next Evolution not work, and you need Fortitude to prevent the damage?
But wraith too?
I am guessing I don't have the preeqs, but I am -certain- I did them. I guess I'll go into them later again. Again, you only have to do them once right?
You have to do them once each, all three games in order, on the device you're doing the unlocks on. Since you got neither unlock, I'm also confident you don't have the unlocks triggered (correctly or not).
I wonder if I did them in the wrong order... Ah well. Back to the drawing board. At least you can reach a point with the F5 that puts the game into sort of a holding pattern while you finish the unlocks.
figured it out - I did f5 losing to Progeny in megalopolis, not rook city. After doing them all again, just to be safe, I got everyone unlocked in one game other then Zero.