Bad News from Handelabra re: Sidekick

Got this message from Handelabra this morning:

Our focus right now is on implementing OblivAeon for the full digital version of Sentinels. We plan to add OA mode support to Sidekick as well, but have no ETA on that. Thanks!

GTG: can you exert any influence here? Many of your player base uses Sidekick and Oblivaeon is so darn fiddily that many I know don’t play the scenario. They are waiting for Sidekick (something they already paid for) and now we are being told it got bumped until the Ap version is ready for sale

Even if they weren’t already aware I’m pretty sure GtG wouldn’t be able to force their hand on it.   Much like the main digital version, the Sidekick app would need some UI changes to support OblivAeon.  How hard or easy that is to implement I don’t know for the Sidekick app but I would guess the main digital version would at least assist in what that finally looks like.  

Yeah, I suspect it's basically a case where the challenges in implementing OA in Sidekick are many of the exact challenges in implementing OA in the digital app, ergo it makes a certain amount of sense to do the latter then back port to the former.

I also doubt they could do anything but I was hoping. Handelabra had months while Oblivaeon was in production to work on Sidekick. Instead they chose the money over existing product support. Not surprising, just disappointing 

*Shrug* They had to keep the lights on so they could work on OblivAeon.

Extending Sidekick to handle the OblivAeon mode of play seems like a significant project. I would find it reasonable if Handelabra asked for more money for that.

Sure and I doubt that would bother anyone but do the darn update. Oblivaeon has been out 5 months and is largely unplayable without some tracking software due to a billion fiddley targets

I mean, they had months that they were using working on implementing Oblivaeon digitally?

I've been rigging up the Sidekick app to try to have all the different scions and characters of Oblivaeon in there to keep track of the HPs... and it works ok... That being said, it is a huge pain, and a real disincentive to playing Oblivaeon. I'd like to register my complaint, here.

Support for the heroes and environments of OblivAeon was not complicated, so they were added to Sidekick quickly after the tabletop expansion was delivered to backers. Support for the OA game mode in Sidekick is a significant project on both iOS and Android. We are a small company, and Sidekick is the smallest of our products, and that's just how priorities have to go. We appreciate you buying Sidekick, and have added tons of free functionality updates to the app over time, for no additional charge, and with no obligation to do so. As I mentioned in the private Facebook message, we are planning to add OA mode in the future. Thanks for your patience!

I quoted the FB message in it's entirety to provide the community with an update.

BTW, I paid for all the graphics packs, with no obligation to do so, to make sure Handelabra got more money for the functionality provided at no additional charge. The graphics add NOTHING to the experience but I wanted to make sure I paid more, with no obligation to do so because I felt it was the right thing to do. I also bought other Handelabra products to thank them for the updates to Sidekick which makes Sentinels more enjoyable on the table.

That's just how I chose my priorities.

Most people here are already aware that Handelabra has its hands full working on the digital app and so other things are likely going to be delayed until it’s finished.

On top of that, many people here have already paid for the Season 2 pass same as you have already paid for Sidekick, and so we’re just as eager for the stuff we already paid for to be finished.

And I mean… Android’s Play Store lists Sentinels Sidekick as being in the 1K downloads category, and I’d be surprised of iOS was that much different.

In contrast; IIRC they’ve said that the full app has something closer to a quarter of a million downloads across the various platforms.

insert apologetic shrug smiley

Right, but this is the GtG website. I certainly don't know the details of how the license works, so if GtG gets some percentage based on downloads from Handelabra, then I'm sure they agree with you. But if it's a fixed price license, they've gotten the same money regardless of Digital vs Sidekick and hence they might prioritize the tool that makes their game playable to sell more physical copies of Oblivaeon.

Digital doesn't exist without the paper version and the great designers at GtG, hence why my belief is to prioritize Sidekick.If I'm alone in this feeling, no worries by me. I'll prioritize their products accordingly.

*insert shrug*

If we assume iOS has similar download numbers to Android, that means there’s around 2K people who own Sidekick.

The OA kickstarter had about 10K backers.

So even among physical owners, the people who use Sidekick are a minority, and thus it is likely not a major driving force behind people buying OblivAeon.

That’s also without noting the fact that there’s plenty of people like myself who own both Sidekick and Season 2. And basically I can still play physical OA without help and use the OA heroes and environments with help, but I can’t yet play digital OA content at all, so my own personal priority of the two is still “finish digital OA”.

I’d also note that GTG is also a small business that has at times talked about the logistics of having to prioritize projects based on what keeps the lights on, so I am going to guess they’re not going to tell Handelabra to use a different business model from themselves. C&A have also expressed time and time again they’re just happy whenever there’s new fans of Sentinels and generally don’t seem to place physical-owning fans in a tier over the digital-owning ones.

I empathize with your frustration since as I noted plenty of us own both things and are equally looking forward to Sidekick being finished as we are to the digital app. But you also made your case and were given I feel a polite answer that I recognize is not what you wanted to hear but is also an answer that makes sense logistically for them to give.

So I just am noting that if your goal is to try to change that answer via prodding the community and GTG to get mad at Handelabra and demand they focus on a 2K-selling product over a 250K-selling product–with the latter product being again one even those of us who own Sidekick, also own the other one too–I just don’t feel that you’re going to succeed there.

I have to agree here.

We all knew this already.  I personally don't use the Sidekick app, but I have a friend who does, and he's also on the OAKS.

Coming here to try and kick up a storm is... probably not the most productive use of your time.

Lots to parse here.  

1) Without data I’m willing to wager IOS is double android. At 30% that’s statistically a minority but barely.

2) “we all knew this”... really? Where was it published that Sidekick is now an afterthought to the digital? I’ve asked Handelabra for info using multiple methods pretty much since I got physical oblivion and gotten no definitive answers, only “we’re working on it”. Yesterday was the first I heard “we’re actually NOT working on it until digital is complete.. 

3) polite response? Try passive aggressive response. Words like “under no obligation” are entirely passive aggressive.

Yes, I was hoping both the company and fans of the paper game would be concerned as I am and exert pressure, but from this small sample size it seems clear people are content with the status quo, so I will cease using this forum for this line of discourse

It was mentioned on these forums by MigrantP in their Sentinels Sidekick main thread https://greaterthangames.com/comment/194487#comment-194487 and again in September https://greaterthangames.com/comment/196038#comment-196038 that support for the OblivAeon Mode would be added later.   They haven’t forgotten the app but as a small programming team they have to set priorities on what to work on.  I don’t see their reply to you as passive aggressive and if anything I see it coming across rather straight forward.   With all of their projects they don’t get an ETA until they know for sure they can release it.  

Your links prove my point. 

They prove the information has been out there for longer than the reply you got on Facebook if that’s what you mean. 

And what I’ve been trying to point out/warn you about is that the company and fans of the paper game are also looking forward to the digital version as well, and there’s also a very large quantity of digital-only fans on top of it, who are all thus more likely to be concerned with and exerting pressure about the digital version, all of which is something Handelabra also has to listen to.

“We all knew this” more or less because much of the online Sentinels community is fans of both GTG and Handelabra and so we keep tabs on both. If you go to Reddit you’re likely to find people more concerned with when the digital version is coming out (there was a thread about the topic literally just the other day in fact) and Steam and the fan Discord are definitely both primarily concerned with the digital version.

I tried to give you polite nudges but that seems to have not worked, so I guess I have to be a little more blunt: The reason you’re not finding much traction is because even the people who own Sidekick here generally either also own the digital version and care more about that being done first, or they just understand that the pressure exerted from a quarter million people is a lot heavier than the pressure exerted from a few thousand people.

Not to mention, to loop back to my initial post in this thread, a lot of the problems they have to solve UI and tracking-wise are likely to be very similar for both Sidekick and the full app, so it’s likely even if they put full resources on it you still wouldn’t have that much of a difference in ETA anyway simply because they’d have to solve much the same problems either way regardless.

" They prove the information has been out there for longer than the reply you got on Facebook if that’s what you mean."

No, they don't. In fact, they can and did easily leave a false impression. Other priorities have been assumed by people in my area as:

1) Aeon KS

2) Void Guard

3) One Deck Dungeon

Not full Oblivaeon implementation. By providing the info that it won't happen until after ALL the above AND now Oblivaeon digital, it changes the narrative. So no, the information was NOT out there in any substantive way. It is now.

Jeysie, I said SPECIFICALLY: " Yes, I was hoping both the company and fans of the paper game would be concerned as I am and exert pressure, but from this small sample size it seems clear people are content with the status quo, so I will cease using this forum for this line of discourse " My only contributions after that admission is to specifically refute what I consider to be gloss (namely, we knew it took a back seat to DIGITAL OBLIVAEON specifically).

All they say is that it will done in a future update with no timeline or impression given beyond that.  Handelabra if you follow them doesn’t give out release dates for updates until they are ready.   Once it’s ready I’m sure Handelabra will make it well known. 

I guess I’m forced to be more blunt, then: Good luck with that. Since I suspect that most other venues for this line of discourse will be even more tilted towards wanting digital OA first out of the two.

They’ve consistently before now said nothing more specific than “OA will be available in Sidekick will be available in a future update” and as someone who keeps tabs on Handelabra I can note that when it comes to Sentinels they’ve been very clearly putting a strong focus on getting digital OA finished and that it’s something a lot of people have been asking after, while conversely there’s not been much mention at all of Sidekick other than the similar “it’s still on our to-do list and it will be done when it’s done” sentiments.

So you have my sympathies that you made an assumption about the missing information that turned out to be incorrect and so ended up with some dashed hopes, but that doesn’t refute things or show a change in the narrative, it just means you made an incorrect assumption.

Edit: Also will second Sonvar’s statement that Handelabra has a policy across the board of never giving solid release dates until something is very definitely ready for release so you’d be highly unlikely to get a firm ETA right now regardless.

I used the word obligation above because we have a clear obligation to develop and release OblivAeon for the digital game: several thousand people have already paid for it and are waiting.

We have no such obligation to develop new features for Sentinels Sidekick. We have done so and will do so, but our obligations must take priority.

And now, it's time for obligatory semantic satiation.

It absolutely changes the narrative from "It can come out anytime" to "It'll ONLY come out after digital Oblivaeon". "Future Update" could be tomorrow. "Future Update after Digital Oblivaeon" is much more transparent. If at any time before I asked Tuesday this had been clearly stated to the numerous queries made, I, nor the people I know who are also waiting and could care less about digital wouldn't have been checking our "Ap Store Updates" every week since September to see if it's patched in.

I shared this clarity with the community. The white knights came out in force and got to righteously crush an evil foe. Case Closed I'd say.

The release dates for either thing have not been announced, nor whether one will come out before the other.

If you think "under no obligation" is passive aggressive and people who point out your logical fallacies are all "white knights" you're going to have a pretty hard time at life in general...

Dude, your original post was an attempt to go over a developer's head to the licence holder to try to exert your own influence over them to make them do what you want. Don't claim that you have the moral high ground. Have some patience man. It's a side app that assists play. You still have the physical game in front of you. You can still play it. Digital players can't right now. 

Locking thread as the discussion is no longer productive and the original poster has said they are done.