Warning spoilers below.
Today I learned in the letters page that in all the multiverse there are only 2 Hakas. However, I count more Hakas than that. I can see Savage Haka and Eternal Haka being the same person just from different times. However where does Extreme Prime Wardens Haka come from. It was very specifically stated who the other Haka is and it was not Extreme Prime Wardens Haka. I am very confused by this. What did I miss here?
My understanding is this (but I may be off because I found it a bit confusing):
-There were more than 2 Haka's before the OblivAeon event.
-During the OblivAeon event, someone or something linked 2 of these Haka's together such that neither could die if the other was still alive.
-This effect carries both forward and backward in time and is actually the source of Haka's immortality
-However, for Hakas other than the 2 that were linked they were erased from existance/ merged with 2 linked Hakas.
The XTREME Prime Wardens are kinda weird in general, since the fact that they're on the cover of Prime Wardens #1 suggests they're still our Prime Wardens who were just going through that unfortunate 90s fashion period at the time, yet later on they're distinctly presented as alternate universe versions instead.
(My new insane theory is that the portal was really time travel, our Prime Wardens didn't realize it because they were so embarrassed by their past phase that they collectively blanked the matter out of their minds as a coping mechanism after it was over, and other heroes have just been too polite to remind them it ever happened.)
I understood the same thing as Dandolo above : timey wimey shenanigans.
Someone, or something, or some cosmic entity, decided that an immortal warrior was a good thing to have to fight against OblivAeon. As the event unfolded, this entity X erased all incarnations of Haka from their respective realities and used their mana to link the lives of his two favorites - in the past.
The cause of Haka's immortality happenned six or more centuries after he became immortal.. Of course, if it does explain how the other Hakas disappeared, it does not explain how they, too, became immortals in their time lines. But with time travelling, reality altering entities, things rarely make sense for less enlightened beings.
I guess we'll understand better when the Authors will finally tell us WHO created Haka - it seems it will be coming in a future episode...
I bet on Guise. It may not be true, but it makes him happy.
It is a bit of a paradox, but Eternal Haka both existed for a time as the ultimate end to our Haka and ceased to exist during the Oblivaeon event when someone created the Hero Haka by combing all the versions of Haka into two beings.
IT is super weird and makes very little sense, because time and reality were bent like a pretzel due to OBlivaeon and Nightmist and who knows what else.
"Retcon : puts the bretzel in your realities !"
Can someone refresh me why we think the XPW are alternate-reality versions? I guess because they show up in the OblivAeon fight as revealed in the ARG?
My impression of the kind of vague explanations is that there are sometimes more than two Hakas as timelines split off. But for all the Hakas that aren't in the main timeline and the timeline of Arataki Wakarewarewa eventually get folded in to those two. That would account for things like "extra" Hakas from time to time.
Yea it seems to work in the sentinels universe that multiverse accure at a point of choices creating two or more universes in the process maybe these other versions arent built im to main hakas untilmuch later. Makes sense to me for some reason.
Once we start needing new verb tenses to describe sequences of achronal events, good luck with words.
I just call it Comic Book Logic. Does it sound cool, ok don't worry how it works.
I have basically two problems with this explanation. (I can wrap my brain around most of it because it works the same way as how Visionary was able to travel across dimensions after the OblivAeon event because it "hadn't happened yet" 5th-dimensionally.)
Yes. C&A said that there were exactly two Hakas (not Aatas), and there are. One in Tactics, one in the RPG.
If you’re thinking of the mist-gated Aata, presumably that one was combined into the “build a Haka” spell and doesn’t exist anymore.
This one is weird so I'll tackle it.
PW #1, as published in the Sentinel Comics world, was in the 90s. Hence why the cover has them looking all 90-fied. That was just the art style then.
Oblivaeon event is likely published somewhere in the 00's or 10's. When cementing the idea of the larger multiverse for the Oblivaeon fight, the writers brought in a PW team from another universe, but used their retro 90's looks for some cool throwbacks.
Here's the thing -- they said our Haka was mist-gated away, and thus wasn't part of the Tactics timeline.
And then he shows up anyway.
Does something re-open a connection between realities?
I'm not sure I buy that. "Haka" was created in order to fight OblivAeon. RPG-Aata was sealed in the other reality after the need for "Haka" had passed. So if there was a specific point in time before which there were multiple Aatas and after which there was only one, it was before RPG-Aata was lost.
They weren't very careful about explaining this, but my understanding is that Tactics-Aata was in the core reality (or rather, the Tactics reality at that point) when the gates were closed. Only RPG-Aata was off exploring when it happened.
The sense I get is that the circumstances of Haka's powers mean there aren't, indeed can't be, "Tactics-Aata" and "RPG-Aata." The only two realities that have an Aata, any version of anything like Aata, are the reality with the Haka we know, and the reality with the Other Haka. How that interacts with the nature of Oblivaeon and the collapse of realities and the shoring up of reality thereafter I don't know.
I think the reason they side-stepped this question is a super hard way has to do with the story of what Prime War is about. Whatever Prime War actually is might be directly related to how the hell our original Haka shows up after being stuck in another reality post Oblivaeons defeat which was supposed to make getting home impossible.
@mindwanderer: Haka was in other realities recruiting ppl to fight obliveaon. I'm almost 99% sure that he was still in those other realities during the time when Oblivaeon destroys Rook City (and when the timelines for the two games split). It doesn't make sense to me why haka would go back into the mists post this point since Nightmist was already dead at this time.
Also, the RPG and Tactics are two different universes within the entire multiverse. Post Oblivaeon there are only 2 Hakas within the multiverse. So there is the female Haka and the male one. Female haka is in the RPG as the main Haka, and somehow due to Prime War (whatever that means), the other Haka shows back up. In other words, as long as our original Haka is in the Tactics timeline, it can't ever show back up in the RPG, unless he leaves the Tactics universe somehow and goes to the RPG one.
Except that they explicitly said that Aata gets "locked out of this reality," that "he's not able to come back into this reality, and there's no more reality hopping because OblivAeon's gone." If, at the moment OblivAeon is defeated, all the alternate Hakas are condensed into those two (Prime War and Arataki), Aata wouldn't be "able to come back into this reality" because he doesn't exist anymore, reality-hopping or not.
Tactics is a separate reality from the RPG so I don't see how he would be excluded from ending up in the Tactis reality when he got cut off. At this point we have to wait for Prime War to get further explanation on how he ended up in the Tactics reality. My guess is related to the Block which only exists in the Tactics reality. My other thought is possibly something the Terminarch does.
I'm pretty sure the Hakas were condenced before Oblivaeon was defeated.
And again. There is still a multiverse. All those multiple realities still exist (except for a few) because Oblivaeon wasn't sucessfull in his goal. We beat him. Obviously the "cant travel between them anymore" only applies until it doesn't anymore, since we know Haka comes back in the Tactics universe.
I'm pretty certain that the Hakas were condensed before OblivAeon was defeated, because they note that the best chance at killing Haka was when both of them where in the same place: fighting OblivAeon.
My confusing stems from the ARG. Didn't the PW fight the XPW shortly before OblivAeon?
That’s occurred to me too, but I feel like that’s in the same category as Eternal Haka, which is to say, “um.” With a side of “that close to Oblivaeon, things go sideways.”
There is the possibility that XPW Haka isn't Arataki Wakarewarewa.
I was assuming it wasn’t. I mean, XPW Haka is male, so.
The thing is, up until Tuesday, I would have just said “it’s an alternate Haka.” Except now we know there’s no such thing except Arataki.
XPW Haka is definitely Aata. Arataki is a woman from another reality altogether. This is very clear from the podcast.
Come on, guys! All you need to do is add three or four extra temporal dimensions while thinking about this and it all makes perfect sense! This should be easy! 
But then you need to use the pluperfect flawed sense for the cotemporal and the postectve dimensional tense for the secantemporal and this is why grammar gets annoying…
Hey, I'm gonna add more confusion and a lack of understanding to this!
The whole thing with the XPW and Eternal Haka thing is that alternate more than 2 versions of Haka exist... for a time. Remember, time doesn't run "linearly" when we're talking about the multiverse. Just because Eternal Haka's calender says he's in the future, his point in "space time" could be in 600 years in our past. I also think there was mention of him existing and "then going off to be absorbed" when the question of how did he meet the heroes came up? I might not be remembering correctly.
All this to say, I think the alternate dimension versions of Haka HAVE to exist by the nature of alternate dimensions, but eventually they don't. We may have more revealed when a certain pirate villain-turned-hero who has shown the power to destroy timelines on a kickstarter update has their own episode (or someone else if I'm totally barking up the wrong tree).
This is from the notes WalkingTarget on it
I asked a question immediately after the episode based on the episode about the multiverse no longer being "travelable", given the above information (thanks WalkingTarget and Powerhound_2000 for making it easy to reference) something must be able to move between realities to check/power up the Hakas, even if it's just energy. Couldn't someone use that to track or possibly communicate with other realities?
You know, rereading the stuff from Walking Target, I think we're looking at this slightly incorrectly.
I've been picturing this "collapse" of alternate Hakas into Aata as as nearly instant. BAM only two Hakas exist. But, that isn't what they are describing. They're describing a much slower proccess, a gradual drain of Haka into Aata and Aatawari instead of a collapse. This explains how XTREME Haka and Eternal HAka can still be around. They have absorbed other Hakas, but they have not yet been absorbed themselves because they are so close to the wall of the funnel.
And, while the Oblivaeon fight is the catalyst for the entity to do this thing, they must go back 600 years to actually do the thing, which because time shenangins could have happened nearly instantly even if it took them a long time to get the proccess and work it on Aata.
For me the funniest thing about this whole story is that, if Haka gains his (hers) powers from the fusing of all the other haka - where do the powers of these other Haka come from ?
This said, it all makes sense if you remember that this is a story told in another universe by authors trough the years... When the OblivAeon story explaining Haka's power was published, it was because an author decided that it was a fun idea to retroactively explain Haka's power by something happening now. Nobody prior knew it would ever happen, and so there were other powered Hakas everywhere.
In other words, the OblivAeon authors retconned the whole history of Haka, creating gordian plotknots in the process - but, waow, it was a cool idea.
As for the tactics/RPG timelines and Ataa being in the Tactics one : remember that, as Christopher explained, in the "author's universe", the Tactics timeline was published long after the RPG one : the RPG one is the direct continuation of OblivAeon, at least from a publishing point of view - so Ataa Haka ended up in another timeline, lost for good for years to the readers. (I guess the idea of seeing Ataa again was a selling point for the Tactics books!)
Timey Wimey can already be cause for headaches, but if you add russian dolls universes, with Christopher and Adam in our universe, imagining that in another universe a comic book about another universe is published, and try to explain this last universe itself without refering to the two higher level ones, trying to make sense of things can break your sanity and lead you to the Cult of Gloom's next swamp grill party !
I mean, you combine fifty dudes lifting a thing, that thing will get lifted even if any one of them couldn't lift it by themselves.
Also, Highlander. Or am I thinking of that movie with Jet Li that I never saw?
And this is Haka we're talking about. Before his Ta Moko disappeared (which I believe is likely the point where he gained his powers), he was a already close to the Maori ideal as a cheif.
No, what I mean is : Haka became an immortal warrior because of the "fusing" of all Hakas/Ataa. Ok, so far so good.
But the other Hakas we know (Eternal Haka, for instance) are ALSO immortal warriors in their own timelines. With the same powers as "our" Haka. The fact that we know that, at least in some timelines, other immortal Hakas existed makes the explanation behind the fact that the immortality of the only two "true" Haka comes from the fusing a paradox.
Well, it depends on how the 'fusing' works. If the fusing happens sequentially, with the spell (or whatever) 'feeding' Hakas to the main two Hakas one at a time, then you are right, it doesn't make sense. But it would also be horribly inefficient. Instead, you could do a binary fusing, where Hakas are paired and fused, repeat until there are only two left. This would go much faster. Also, it means that all Hakas would grow in power (up until the point where they get fused away) rather than just the two final ones.
This idea of combining the power of multiple people across the multiverse reminds me of a Jet Li movie. Don’t remember the name, maybe The One?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of!
I mean, to answer this question, you need to ask things like "What is power?" and I am just not good at philosophy. :B It makes sense to me that if you combine two guys, those guys will get stronger per their own natural traits, and if you combine thousands and thousands of guys, those traits will slowly add up to superhuman proportions, because that's a lot of dudes.
This is what I was trying to picture with my funnel analogy.
There are other powered Haka's "earlier" in the meta-timeline because those Haka's were also gathering points for the energy of Haka, which then collapsed further into other Haka's who had been gathering power, until we were only left with 2 Haka's in totality.
I just didn't know how to look up the name for what I was picturing which is a slightly different picture than your explanation of Binary Fusing (which is probably more accurate) gives me.
I hope most of these questions get answered when we get to the "How" from whoever did it (I'm also assuming La Comodora here, since she's the most likely to be able to as well as being this month).
The "fusing of all the other Hakas" explanation doesn't make mathematical sense. If there are an infinite number of realities in the multiverse, and the strength and vitality of the Hakas in all of those realities gets condensed into the two main Hakas, then those two Hakas have infinite strength and vitality. As in, there should literally be nothing they can't lift because they have infinite strength. And their strength can't increase as more realities split off and those new Hakas are condensed into the main Hakas because you can't increase infinity.
Sounds like Haka's backstory may have a little more "because... comics" in it than they intended. ;)
To be fair, unless another reality was split off before he was born, there would be no new Hakas. Also, depending on how you judge XPW's Haka appearing before OblivAeon, some Hakas are fused from the future.
Well, it would also take an Infinite amount of time to accomplish, and Haka is confirmed as growing in strength over time. But then, there would be more than two so we;re back to "because the story demands it" but it is also possible that the Destruction of Oblivaeon caused the process to fritz out.
IT's also possible that you hit a point of diminishing returns. You've got the strength of 10 billion men in your arms, does doubling that effectively do anything in terms of recognizable effects?
But yeah, there is a point where logic and math breaksdown in favor of the story, and I'm cool with that
Math stuff: first, Christopher and Adam suggested that there were “hundreds or thousands” of Hakas involved in this, not infinitely many, which suggests that they either have a shaky grasp on multiverse theory or are choosing not to implement it literally.
Otherwise, diminishing returns and the limit theorem can provide an answer. For instance, absorbing one other Haka might make him twice as strong, but absorbing two make him only 250% as strong, and three make him 275% as strong, then infinitely many would make him only 300% as strong as normal.
Thanks for articulating that Trajector! I’ve been thinking about time in the multiverse that way for a while now but haven’t been able to put it into words. The central reference point for all timelines is OblivAeon since NightMist linked realities at that point. I like to call it OblivAeon Standard Time.
The 2 main questions I think are key to making sense of all this are:
Does it Dadolo, does it. With ¿Quando? ¡Ahora! the possiblity of dimention hopping is there, so the final wasteland can still be in another reality. And who says we havn't, ¿ Donde? ¡ Aqui! has 2 comodora, the flip side of La Capitan has er with scales for skin. Until her powers are "Expalined" anything is possible. I just want to know if she is paradox proof. And if she meet up with the Chronoist (I forgot this question, how may are you alowed to ask?)
I am excited for her show.
If the answer is she can only travel in time, that would help clear the Final Wasteland question up… If she can also move between realities, then no.
Should be a fun episode and an illuminating one.
#2 sounds wrong to me. The way the Tactics and RPG timelines are created, from what I gather from the podcast, is that both are created from the Core Game reality at the moment Chronoranger is killed along with Rook City. Aata is in a completely unrelated reality, and at some point in the Tactics timeline, somehow reality hopping is made available again and he comes back.
Trajector has it right, actually, Haka was reality-hopping the entire time OblivAeon was being fought, and happened to end up in the Tactics timeline and was still there right as OblivAeon was defeated and the mist gates collapsed as a result.
My main point of contention is his referring to the Tactics timeline is a separate reality that's similar to the Core Game timeline, where the way it's described, Tactics and RPG are both from the Core Game timeline.
Also in the Haka episode, Christopher specificalliy says "In the Sentinel Tactics timeline, there is no Haka in that world." He goes on to say Aata "eventually appears in the timeline, sort of, in the Prime War."
The implication is moreso that people don't know what happened to Haka and Tactics is the reality he got stuck in.
Where's that quote from?
From the write up by WalkingTarget on the wiki https://sentinelswiki.com/index.php?title=Podcasts/Episode_33#tab=Quicknotes
That's possible. That's a bit of a conjecture though, since Christopher and Adam don't confirm that he's in Tactics, just that he shows up in Prime War "sort of". This leaves 2 possiblities: 1) He's already there, but no one knows. or 2) Dimension hopping becomes available again.
Since the timeline splits at a specific point in the fight, I'm assuming Arataki shows up after the split, but I'm curious how travel works between the two new timelines.
Also, since the world gets split and there isn't 2 versions of Aata and Arataki, neither are in this reality when it is split. Arataki shows up, but why would Aata go to Tactics to get help for RPG timeline?
This is the RPG section which confirms Aata from the start gets stuck in the Tactics timeline
It's certainly possible reality hopping becomes a thing again but that's not what happened here.
That's not what I'm hearing from Christopher and Adam on the podcast. They never said he is specifically locked in Tactics-verse. Just that he's not in the Comics reality and that he's locked out. I've listened to that section of the podcast multiple times since we've started this discussion.
I'm not saying it's impossible that he's currently in the Tactics timeline, since they're being purposefully vague, but they specifically do not mention which reality he is in.
And it's still poses the question: why is he not split with the timelines like everyone else when the timelines split? Everyone else mentioned in the podcast so far appear in both realities because they are present when the timelines split when Chronoranger is killed. So either he comes back from getting help to the Tactics timeline or isn't in either of these timeline but some other timeline (say, Arataki's original timeline)
But this isn't really my main issue to begin with. Trajector's post states Core Game becomess RPG timeline, and Tactics is just a similar timeline that exists, where my disagreement is that RPG and Tactics are both the Core Game timeline.
I would agree on the point RPG and Tactics are built from the main SotM timeline. They branch off from events occurring while OblivAeon is attacking. As to Haka's split it would appear tied to whatever makes it so only two of him exist anymore. I assume we will get more explanation with an upcoming episode since another character was directly involved in that. Regardless, the notes written up agree with what I understood from listening the podcast that the Haka from the card game is stuck in the Tactics timeline while getting help against OblivAeon and his alternate reality version Arataki ended up in the RPG timeline because she helped during OblivAeon.
I dislike this part of the write-up because Christopher and Adam do not say that directly. Whether it turns out to be true or not, we’ll see.
We haven’t gotten details of the OblivAeon fight right? Is he actually fight in the RPG reality? I know good shards end up in both realities, which is why he can’t get put back together
Haka exists in both Tactics and the RPG but Aata does not. There is only Aata and Arataki by the end of the Oblivaeon event.
Now, I'm with corran109. It is possible that Haka ends up in the Tactics timeline because of Oblivaeon, but ending up in the Tactics timeline directly from Oblivaeon, when it is a future where Oblivaeon has been defeated before Oblivaeon was defeated... doesn't make sense because until Oblivaeon was actually defeated a universe where he was defeated could not exist. So, if the Gate dropped Haka in the reality that becomes Tactics, it was during the fight. The more I think about this the less sense it makes.
So, because OBlivaeon breaks time and space and must therefore have his own timeline that is not effected by the timelines of the various realities, Haka, in my opinion, has to end up somewhere else because of the Gate, because you can't be in a future when Oblivaeon was destroyed by the very nature of Oblivaeon and his goal to destroy everything.
Think about it, how could Oblivaeon destroy a reality in which he lost the fight, died, and all travel between realities was locked? He cannot, so, since we must believe the threat he posed was real and he could actually destroy all realities, then it must be impossible to travel to a reality where he was already defeated and therefore Haka's Gate could not have appeared in the future of the Tactics timeline.
My personal theory is that Aata was actually stuck between realities. He appears in Tactics not because travel between realities is now possible, but because he was squeezed out of the space between realities and Tactics is where he landed.
Well WalkingTarget can defend his writeup but I do agree with what was written. Also, there has to be some time left between OblivAeon's defeat and the inability to reality hop. Otherwise CON, who was from the Final Wasteland, would not have been able to accomplish what it did.
Which thing is this?
Also, WalkingTarget's response on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/sentinelsmultiverse/comments/6y89bm/the_letters_page_episode_33_haka/dmyvk2g/
Basically, it's a conclusion he came up with. It's plausible, but I don't entirely agree with it. My main issue with it being in the summary is that it's not what Christopher and Adam said directly, but it's his summary to write and not mine.
See the Chrono Ranger episode
If you mean Con coming and reversing Chrono-Ranger and saving Rook City, that happened before Oblivaeon was defeated.
But also, Con and Chrono-Ranger are confirmed to actually have Time Traveling, not reality hopping, so even if I'm wrong about the timing (which I'm not becuase we also have it directly from Christopher that the portal shutting is instant) Con could still do his thing because he is traveling through actual time and therefor is not effected by the closing of realities.
CON is from the Final Wasteland an alternate reality. Which also contained an alternate Haka which fought OblivAeon as well.
I thought Final Wasteland is the future of the current reality? Because it ceases to exist, which isn't something that happens to reality with it it blowing up another reality. Also because ChronoRanger specifically comes from and deals with this reality and not dealing with problems across realities.
This is the bio of the Final Wasteland which I've bolded a line for emphasis.
>
In one of the timelines in the Multiverse, the monsters and bizarre creatures we think of as myths and urban legends grew stronger and stronger while hiding from the human race, which hated and feared them. Given enough time to flourish and multiply, they finally broke out of their hiding in darkness and obscurity, hellbent on revenge! They slaughtered their way through the human population of the world, destroying all they touched. The human race rallied, but ultimately, the monsters from their greatest nightmares were too strong and too numerous.
Decades turned into centuries, and centuries became millenia - the world, now overrun entirely by monsters of all sorts is a terrible wasteland. The few points of light in the darkness have long been extinguished. This could be the most terrible era for heroes, lost in time, to end up.
Hope that you never do
To be fair, the primary timeline is "one of the timelines in the Multiverse." Aren't the rats from Wasteland the descendant of Plague Rat? Could be a similar Plague Rat from a different universe or the same ones. I'll have to go back and listen to the Chronoranger episode later.
Well we have our current heroes able to go there and face a villain so it has to be a separate universe to some degree. Also, if Chrono-Ranger is preventing this from happening with each bounty he completes it should prevent him from returning as he altered history.
It's just weird, because his mission was to preven the Final Wasteland from happening anyways, but if it's a separate timeline, it doesn't get prevented? Unless it's a future of a separate timeline that gets prevented because of OblivAeon's destruction?
I hope Adam and Christopher do something soon so we can put this argument to rest. D:
We will just find something else to argue about 
Christopher said at one point that OblivAeon basically screwed up time so that anything that previously would have happened in an OblivAeon-free world now no longer happened, so the Final Wasteland basically stopped being a thing after OblivAeon was defeated.
And considering Haka was stated to have been still reality hopping during the OblivAeon fight, I don't really have a particular issue with the idea that Haka could have hopped into the Tactics timeline after it got created but before OblivAeon was defeated and then got stuck there.
It does lead (back) to the question of what Haka was doing before Prime War, but then we don't really have that much detail on what any of the Prime Wardens were doing in general. (Or what the Prime War even involves.)
And, arguing is fun. ;P
As long as arguing doesn't devolve into insults, it's all fair to me. Just heated discussion about something we're all passionate about.
I'm considering the same thing. Though I always come back to what Christopher said in the episode. He appears in Prime War "sort of". Maybe I'm reading too much into those 2 words.
This discussion has made me very interested in Tactics again, if only to see what the story of Prime War is going to be. I tried Tactics back when it was first introduced but I couldn't really get into it. I might give it another shot when Prime WAr comes out.
I’d be happy to concede the point - another way to get Aata stuck in the Tactics timeline in my model is to have him visit that timeline, looking for allies, AFTER OblivAeon has obliterated Chrono-Ranger and Rook City. OblivAeon obviously hadn’t been defeated yet at that point, after all. (Though this raises a strange point: OblivAeon created a branch in timelines, when he was trying to collapse them?) We can probably come up with other ways to do it, too.
A cool thing about all this, by the way, is that it means Arataki was the champion created to fight OblivAeon, not Aata.
Really, we need a Final Wasteland interlude, at least!
I specifically asked about this in the Gen Con Episode, because it bugged me. What they ended up saying was that OBV didn't intend on branching a timeline, but the sheer amount of energy they put out that impacted a temporal anomaly(CR/TimeBadge) branched the timelines.
Basically mass of energy + time machine = oops.
It technically wouldn’t be a problem since at that moment the two timelines are very similar. But then he has to go and lose the fight.
Yeah, I think that's the big thing. There were still other timelines to collapse when Oblivaeon got defeated. Him creating one isn't a big deal. It's annoying but it will quickly get subsumed after he wins. The problem is, he loses, and therefore the tiny branching point is allowed to become a tree
@Powerhound
I didn't find the comment that only La Capitan and Chrono-Ranger are true time travelers yet (I'll keep looking, I think it may have been Omnitron's or Visionary's episode, but Chrono-Ranger's episode had these questions
Can CON enable time travel within the same timeline (referencing the fact that in earlier episodes the guys generally talk about time-travel as specifically reality-hopping rather than actual time travel within a timeline)?
Yes. CON's main limitation was that it couldn't travel through time itself and needed an agent (up until it figured out how to upload itself to CR's gear at the end of the multiverse era).
Was CR able to prevent the future of the Final Wasteland? He doesn't know, but yes.
Now, I think, the logic of "How could he go back to the Final Wasteland if he changed the past and created a new future?" is actually fairly simple. He had not, before getting stuck outside of time which is the last time he traveled to the Final Wasteland, actually changed enough yet to make a difference. The Final Wasteland is so far into the future that he had to change multiple points to effect enough change to alter it in a way that was noticeable. And, he did change the future, that's why his badge was able to gather temporal energy. He creates a change in the timeline, and the badge absorbs the energy of that change, perhaps even allowing him and CON to shift along with the timeline, which is what gives him the power to jump forward and then back again.
I did another search of the notes from the LEtter's PAge, can't find the comment. I know it was said though, so I'd appreciate if anyone could point towards when and where that was so I can back that section up even more.
I support this statement. 
I don’t.
I support both statements but my support means nothing, it carries no weight.
Unless you read my secret messages, then my support can lift mountains, it carries so much weight it can carry your mum!
I love getting into in-depth discussions where everybody has different ideas and opinions and collectively figuring out what seems to work and be most right and what doesn't work, where the goal is more to reach a consensus than to "win".
Actual fights are not fun, though.
I also disagree with it, because it's explicitly not what Christopher and Adam said.
They said the Tactics timeline does not have Haka. He is not there. Then he shows up. Not, "He's in hiding in the Tactics timeline," or "he got locked into the Tactics timeline."
They say, explicitly, that he is not there. And then he is.
They also say there isn't any reality hopping in the same section so where else is he? I'm hoping when they have focus on Prime War again that there be a more definitive answer.
It might not even really be him. After all, we just learned that the Ambuscade deck from VotM doesn't actually have Ambuscade in it. Could be an illusion, simulacrum, or clone.
Certainly possible but I hope not. Though the explanation of how Ambuscade works in VotM has some issues based on card art and issues referenced.
To be fair, they said reality hopping isn't possible during the RPG section, and the RPG timeline covers events closer to the end of OblivAeon, where in the Tactics timeline some time has passed. In the time between OblivAeon and Tactics, something could have happened to allow some sort of movement. It could have to do with the Block or some element not yet discussed. Or maybe he doesn't travel into the Tactics timeline but finds a way to project himself.
Ooh, the block is a good possibilty.
Still outside of time and space, just the only door in or out is connected to the Tactic's Timeline. Very possible that Haka ended up in the Block, maybe even imprisoned by the inmates who are running the place.
Prime War could be a battle between the inmates of the Block who are seeking to escape and wreck havoc (they have a doorway that opens anywhere) and the Prime Wardens trying to take down whoever the mastermind of that organization is. Finding and freeing HAka in the process allowing him to join the fight.
That's not a bad answer to the problem.
Ooooooooooh. Yes, I super-like this idea now that it has been thought up.
So we'd have RPG Argent trying to find a Haka that probably cannot actually be found (unless Argent finds a way to open dimensional portals again which would be… interesting…), and the Tactics Wardens possibly looking for their Haka but instead finding a Haka, and in the Block at that. So much for their lives being easy.
Aata is their Haka though. Though I wonder if the Wardens in both universes are looking for Aata in their timelines.
I don't think RPG Adept is looking for Haka. They seemed to have accepted that Haka was "Lost" and that is what broke the team up. We eventually, as the FV in the Starter kit, will put the Prime Wardens back together again, but I think everyone knows Haka is gone and no one is looking for him.
They do however, find Awatari, probably while looking for Tempest, since that is who we find her fighting.
Aah, I see. I misread some descriptions you gave of your demo games a while back.
Almost a shame since "looking for someone you literally can't find" is one of those sorts of twisted and slightly evil RP ideas I'm fond of.
Late to the party, carving out time to listen to these is hard right now.
Want to point out a few things:
1. From the part about Eternal Haka, the Hakas are apparently all drawing life force from other Hakas all the time, Eternal gets crazy strong because he lives so long.
2. The other Haka is female, they aren't just cooies of the same Haka, they were different versions of Haka from the moment either existed.
3. The energy transfer doesn't happen at death, it happens all the time.
4. When they talk about savage mana they connect it to the mysterious source of his power. Somehow taking a life akso grabts him some level of power, and his ability to collect that "mana" is tied to the shenanigans we are talking about.
I think there are many ways that Haka can be, and when the two are bound, all the Aatas and all the Aratakis begin absorbing the energy of all other (not Aata or Arataki) Hakas, and then the Aatas converge, and the Aratakis converge into the one version of each of them that fights OblivAeon. Eternal Haka absorbs energy because he is an Aata. Somewhere out there there might even be an Eternal Arataki Haka, but never an Eternal Quokka (sorry animalverse fans).
Because Multiverse, there will always be new versions of Aata being formed, they don't immediately die or get absorbed, it is my guess that they begin absorbing power, and then when the OblivAeon fight starts, the other Aatas and Aratakis know they need to merge, in some multi dimensional let's get this power into the one that needs it type thing, and because of it we get 2 impossibly powerful heroes in one fight.
Just my theory.
My take is The SC RPG was going to be a thing so GTG had to retcon that 2 Alternate timelines happend. (and more because every rpg game is cannonish). It is labeled as "THE END OF THE MULTIVERSE" after all. Which work well in the dark lower powered Tactics timeline.
I love the power of Retconing. Do you really belive that the AnimalVerse will die like that. Give the readers a few week to throw fit and they will start printing them again. The publishers do thing because of money, so as long as it sells they will keep making it. (Did I say that my Favorite Hero ATM is Gween Poole. She tries to do anything to keep her readers buying her books, her life depends on it.)
Comic companies do this all the time saying Everything is new and diffent only to go back to tried and true once sells slips. I will just wait till the RPG timeline and the Tactics merge and we get the best of both worlds. . . Miles Morales in the main Marvel timeline anyone ( Evil Beast/Reed Richards in the main timeline)?
I get the Feeling that La Capitan episode will have alot of retcons, some that we may never know. It is there time to round some square pegs, they need to fit somehow.
The RPG and Tactics people meeting up with each other would be pretty amusing, since the level of reactions would be all over the map I bet.
Though we wouldn't get a Evil Beast or The Maker situation since AFAIK none of the heroes so far have become actually villainous, just darker and edgier or making bad but not really evil choices.
The way Christopher phrased something in the Maria Helena episode made me think:
What if the thing that she did to bond Aata and Arataki took place at the time of the OblivAeon event, and the absorption of Hakas propagated BACKWARD through time? Does that help us rationalize things, or just make it worse?
I mean, I kinda figured that folks like Eternal Haka and Xtreme Haka could exist and interact with our Haka up until Oblivaeon shows up, because the melding or whatever you want to call it just hadn't absorbed them yet. Like, it isn't suddenly "all Hakas are two", it propoagates, like you said, and those are just two notable examples that it takes longer for the effect to reach.
And, it also helps that they said the effect is over as well, this means that there are no additional branching points, so we actually have a much bigger limit on the number of Haka's that could have possibly be absorbed than we first assumed.
I really wish I could just convince every writer in all of history who was ever going to use time travel as a concept, that when asked how something in their story works, “timey wimey shenanigans” is not an acceptable answer. And they instead need to hire me as a consultant to write a 100% internally consistent explanation of how time works for their particular time travel technology (or magic or whatever), so that it always functions exactly the same and there are zero plot holes. More than any other thing I do creatively that doesn’t cross over into other stuff like politics, the perfect Justifying of time travel seems like the purpose I was put on this earth to achieve.
