https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gtgames/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-oblivaeon/posts/1886773?ref=backer_project_update
Interesting that the Scions have Nemesis. Dark Mind feels like you're fighting Dark Visionary in a way.
Now I’m extremely curious about what it means to flip a Scion, and why they use the template of “this villain turn” rather than “the villain turn”. Are there multiple villain turns?
@ Arcanist Lupus
My guess is that it has to deal with the 2 Battle Zones. If Dark Mind is in Battle Zone 2, it will not act when dealing with Villains in Battle Zone 1.
I just want to comment on the art layout of the Scion panels. This is my first look at the art pannels and I love how they are laid out. They have some flavor text and an extra art bar that adds to the character. I can't wait to see the other Scions and I especially can't wait to see whats on the flip side of the ones shown on the KS.
Given how the flip conditions are, I'm assuming it's similar to flipping any villain, but we'll find out soon enough I guess.
As for the villain turn, I wonder if the Scions take their turn separately from OblivAeon himself.
They explained turn order at some point in the past, although I don't remember when. Depending on how many players are in the game, it's villain turn 1, then two or three heroes, then villain turn 2, then the remaining heroes, then the environment. And I believe the villain's two turns aren't the same, depending on zones and whatnot.
Yeah, I noticed a reference to "here", so obviously the two zones are going to necessitate some interesting new rules.
These guys looks great, though. The entire Celestial Tribunal as a character? :D I can't wait for that episode of the Letters Page!
Yeah, this has gotten me really looking forard to OblivAeon
Yeah, that struck me as weird. It looks like it's the Celestial Adjudicator, not the whole Tribunal. Not only is its tagline "Corrupted Adjudicator," but it's clearly a humanoid and not an entire space station. Although either way it would be odd to face in the actual Celestial Tribunal.
So we now know that there's an entire Aeon Men deck, which consists either in whole or in part of Aeon Men. Seems like it doesn't just consist of a whole stack of identical cards, or there'd be no point in shuffling it. But I can't tell from this whether all Aeon Men are the same. They sure look the same in the picture, but maybe they have different abilities, or maybe that's just the "generic mook" model.
Dark Mind has an interesting mechanic, triggered on ongoings being revealed or destroyed. I assume "reveal" means through the "reveal" event and not being effectively revealed by being played or even "looked at" (e.g. Inventive Preparation). But that could stand to be written more clearly. It's also interesting that she's an "Unhinged Voidform" but doesn't have the Voidform keyword.
I'm dying to know the OblivAeon mechanics. Not least so lynkfox and I can start working on how to handle the stats pages! If there's only one Scion per game (perhaps each with their own deck), or it's something like "Choose H-1 Scions" and those are the scions that are in the game, period, that'll be easy. If they keep coming out, that'll be harder.
The tribunal is an AI, yes? My guess is that it did something similar to Omnitron’s transformation into OX.
And I’m guessing that the Aeon Men are something like the gene bound minions - unique, but all very similar.
So each scion has their own deck? O.O I'm still not sure I understand the whole thing yet... really looking forward to more info.
No, I’m pretty sure that there is one deck of Scions.
Ninja’d
From the kickstarter update:
So one deck, for all Scions.
It also depends on what the other side of Sanction is.
I'm curious of the canonical explanation, given that all games are canon, of how things are fighting themselves, like Dark Visionary fighting Dark Mind, or Sanction fighting in the Celestial Tribunal, or I guess any of the new heroes fighting the villain versions of themselves.
Time travel/alternate realities. It's possible all the way up through the end of the OblivAeon fight.
Don't know how they'll explain that short of shenanigan in Tactics, but fortunately that isn't possible yet.
Nightmist became a gate and pulled alternate versions of all the heroes in. This includes alternate versions of Dark Visionary who weren’t helped by AA, I guess.
Is the Void also the afterlife of the Multiverse? It seems like we keep getting presumably dead people being reanimated as voidforms.
You know, the Setback Letters Pages mentioned that the Dark Watch was able to turn one of the Scions back into its uncorrupted form. I wonder if that's what flipping them is about.
I don't think so. The flip conditions all look like the results of the heroes allowing Bad Things to happen, not some sort of success/reward situation. I think the flip sides are escalations of some sort. Redeeming a Scion may be an Objective/Reward card.
I don't think so, but I feel like it might have some quirks with people who are tied to the Void in some way. They might not die like normal people do.
ah I see. That's neat. Assuming this is still accurate, this is helping me make some sense of it. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gtgames/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-oblivaeon/posts/1496315
itll still make more sense once I'm actually doing it though.
Of course, it's always possible that not all the Scions act the same way upon flip. Certainly not all the villains do.
I wonder if the extra art bar for the Scions (where the HP is located) is a clue to what might be on the flipped side?
If so, Sanction's flip side might be bad news. (Also note GtG's tendency to treat trash piles as doomsday countdown timers)
Given the way things can change in comic books, not to mention this game, I wouldn't be surprised if Oblivaeon was like, "Hey, giant sword ship robots, you help me now" and smooshed the whole sword into a being that looks like the Celestial Adjudicator. Except instead of being 20 feet high, she's like, 200 feet high. :B
I just says "Reveal". So any "reveal" mechanic triggers it (eg. Inventive Preparation). "Being Played" is not "revealing". Since "reveal" is a specific mechanic already widely used throughout the card game, It should be familiar to you and others by the time you play Oblivaeon itself. To me, this is already pretty clear and consistent with other uses of the term "reveal".
Did anyone else notice that the link to the Celestial Tribunal went to the Wiki? That's pretty awesome.
That could be it too… which feels even more creepy in a way, really.
I mean, it is the Void. I feel like it's supposed to be creepy. You should submit questions about it to a relevant character on the Letter's Page. I wonder if they'll do an Interlude for Void questions.
Indeed, but there's a certain extra element of creepiness to "You're mine forever now that you have a connection to me, even potentially if you never asked to have one."
I already have buckets of questions for Argent Adept's Letters Page, to be sure. (And I bet Nepycros also does too.)
I seem to recall them saying there would be a Void Interlude, but [citation needed]. :B
Uh, sure it is…I have to reveal the card to play the card. I can't hide what card I played, therefore I revealed it =). This is a rare moment where the rules are too counterintuitive for their own good, like the difference between "play a card" and "put a card into play." I see the nuance, but I do not like it, haha. I assume that the Reveal here is any time an Ongoing card is turned face up…
Is there actually a rule in Sentinels that states your hand has to be hidden? Sometimes in my group we just play with hands in the open. In that case, there's no revealing when playing a card.
Considering that the video game had both open and closed hand options, I’d say that you can choose whichever option sits your group the best.
I actually don’t find the “play” vs “put into play” distiction to be nonintuitive at all, but I come from a background of MtG, where wording is extremely strict, and there are several very similar nuances. I can see how other people would view it differently.
Cards are revealed whenever the rules text says “revealed”. No more, no less. Even if you are technically revealing cards while taking other actions, that isn’t the same as the game action of “revealing” (just like you wouldn’t say that you “walked to the store” if you walked to your car, drove to a parking lot, then walked into the store). The one exception may be that I think there are older cards that say “Look at…” which was later standardized to be the same as revealing. I’d have to check the Fireside Chats.
Also, I’m not a playtester, so the above paragraph is deduction, not fact.
I was more making the point that if there’s no strict hidden hand rule, reveal cannot ever apply to anything in your hand.
I played MtG for a long time too, but I remember a good number of people new to MtG having the same confusion over “reveal”.
Reveal is a specificly mentioned mechanic in SotM. Since it's specificly definined in the game, you have to understand it in the game-sense and not the general sense of the word.
I understand why this is confusing to new players. It's similar to the huge mechanical difference of "playing a card" and "putting a card into play" which are two totally seperate and different things in SotM terms, but should mean the same thing in a general sense.
But this is OblivAeon. I think the assumption here should be that if you playing OblivAeon, it's likely not your first game of SotM and that you are more or less familiar with these fairly common mechanical terms and the rules behind them.
I don't think it's safe to assume anything when it comes to player stupidity. I've been at conventions where the booth managers are demoing their own games and making significant mistakes in basic mechanics. I agree that "reveal" certainly means just when a card says "reveal," but I can see how players could easily get it wrong.
Even so I don't think the wording on Dark Mind will change since this is a standard mechanic. If people play it wrong on the tabletop it won't be the first nor the last time anyone got it wrong.
Right. It's a standard SotM mechanic. Given that fact there isn't really a cleaner way to say it, which I think was the original point I wanted to make.
heres a quote from a past update.
The Scion pile is full over oversized villain character cards that will enter the Battle Zones to hinder the heroes and be generally terrifying. They’re very powerful. It will be rare to see more than 2 or 3 over the course of a game, though in Advanced more they come out more quickly. You’ll need to work together and probably even use Mission rewards to take them down on the path to OblivAeon.
...Oh geez, you're not just fighting one at a time? D: Or do they come out one after the other?
It sounds to me like the Scion Deck will have a couple cards that have, as an effect, "Put a Scion into play." Or possibly OblivAeon's deck or character cards will do so.
I could see OblivAeon deploying one after his shields are knocked out, for instance, or if X amount of Aeon Men are destroyed.
Oh bloody hell. I didn't even think of the whole Statistics thing with the Scions… gah… gah… gah.
Looking at the pictures of the case in the update, I'm not sure there's enough room for every card to be sleeved. Admittedly, I worry (and get pessimistic) when estimating these things, but from the very hurried maths I just did, it looks too small. Take this all with a pinch of salt though :D
I didn't do the math, but there's a lot of open space and foam blocks in there, and I trust >G to hold up to their promise of it holding sleeved cards.
My working, so that people can see if I've missed anything.
Using a standard hero deck with just the base character card included and basic Ultra Pro sleeves, I got the following;
At 'standard' compression (i.e. the deck was lightly compressed to make it slightly thinner); 27mm (the deck) x 37 (the number of expected decks by my count) = 999mm / 2 (the number of trays in the case) = 499.5mm needed in each tray for just the decks.
At 'tight' compression (i.e. ramming all the cards together as best I could); 24mm x 37 = 888mm / 2 = 444mm. At this compression, however, getting the cards out was... difficult.
None of the above includes dividers, either the cardstock ones or the ones coming with the case.
Taking out the character cards will create space equal to roughly one hero deck, so that's an option.
Mostly I just want to know if I'm getting worked up over nothing (which is what my partner keeps telling me).
If this box can't fit all the decks sleeved GtG may have a riot.
You have to understand that “will the box hold all the cards sleeved” is THE number one most frequently asked question for this kickstarter, to the point that is become a running joke. This is not a feature that they’re going to just forget about.
I’m not sure where your numbers are coming from, though. By my count there are four drawers for decks, and far more than 37 decks, of several different sizes.
Sorry for the miscommunication. 37 hero decks divided by the two trays intended for hero decks. I haven't sleeved anything else because of cost at the minute, so that's where my primary interest lies.
Edit: I'm not doing this to troll anyone. I'm just seeking reassurance, as I said, I worry a lot. About stupid things.
At worst case, some of the hero decks have to migrate into the environment tray. The sleeves should protect them from the varied and dangerous environments found there.
A fact I've considered. It would be extremely irritating, but I'm aware it's stupid to feel like that.
Hats off for the sleeves joke though.
Unless you think GtG is incompetent or blatantly lying you don’t really have anything to worry about. They’ve been saying the box will hold everything since the very beginning and those are the only two reasons it wouldn’t (if built to their specifications).
Rationally, I don't think either of those things. Irrationally? My brain is screaming at me that it's a wasted purchase, etc. But thanks for saying that, it helps.
Brain chemistry sucks.
My expectation is that my fully sleeved cards will likely require some placing of decks in non-standard drawers.
It would be easy enough for them to test their prototype, although they may be testing with thinner sleeves. Hopefully they can reassure us that they've done this.
I'm already wondering if it's worth buying a few deck boxes just for character cards (heroes and villains) and variants, just so I can get as many cards in the right place as possible.
I prefer things to be in their proper place.
Guise would like me to tell you he doesn't like to wear sleeves because, and I quote: "Are you serious? -flexes- Do you see these babies? Why would I hide these under some fabric? Now Legacy, eh... Don't get me wrong, Legacy's great, but I mean, come on now. -flexes again- Can he match these?"
Per this update it should be fine and I've put the one line in bold
And here we have every single card in SotM in four trays! This even includes mock-ups of all the decks releasing with OblivAeon. There is plenty of extra room for sleeves if you want to go that route, and if not, the foam blocks will keep your cards snug and secure! Also, the punchboard divider cards are awesome and way more durable than cardstock dividers.
To me, at least at the minute, there is a difference between the bolded sentence and there being a clear statement that there is enough room. It's the difference between 'should' and 'will'.
I'm not saying GtG should buy sleeves and sleeve every card (because that is extremely expensive and time consuming), it's the ambiguity of everything I remember reading is just getting to me. I know this is in all likelihood a mountain/molehill situation and I apolgise for dragging everyone through it with me.
Man...every time I see a preview, I start getting hyped again...
I'm looking forward to seeing the full thing in action!
EDIT: I have been sufficiently reprogrammed by local Moderator X4P8DM0, username arenson9, and now feel inextinguishable desire for the Oblivaeon event, and while I enjoy the prospect of new heroes and new environments to play with, they do not overshadow the final fight against the destroyer of the Multiverse.
Note: Occasionally, I am overwhelmed with sudden urges to eat BBQ Twist Fritos while reading Rook City Renegades books 27-43, during an audiobook listening of Plato's The Republic. I am currently going to see John about running through and looking for bugs in my Unity. May have some possible correlation with the fact that while arenson9 was getting a drink during my reprogramming, I noticed a lone purple and yellow figure talking about pouches in the distance.
Yes. Please report for reprogramming immediately.
sigh
fires up anti-brainwashing ray
From the Chokepoint episode of the Letters Page podcast, it sounds like Chokepoint is stuck in the ruins of the Celestial Tribunal floating in space somewhere, so Sanction is most likely just what used to be the Adjudicator and not the whole Tribunal.
Makes me curious how the Adjudicator got separated from the Tribunal.
I infer that was a result of the Chokepoint battle. We know she "won" and basically shut down the station's AI. One way that could be accomplished would be by lobotomizing it of the core AI, the Adjudicator. One could even interpret that as a function of Chokepoint's basic ability, separating metal objects into their core components, in this case separating the AI from the station itself.
I admit, I'm curious as well, particularly with the information we have about how the whole Tribunal event was resolved. I wonder if Sanction is a rogue which resulted from that event or something even older, maybe a fragment of the AI? Though I do kinda wonder if Chokepoint isn't responsible as well...