Does this mean no more Sentinals in print? No more Sentinels expansions? And, um, if so... why? The game's a lot of fun, seems to be selling almost absurdly well, and it seems like there's a bunch of gamespace left to explore. Will there be an Ultimate Sentinels reboot, or a second edition with a new timeline? Or are we talking 'hey, fun while it lasted, time to go out to the dustheap...'
Sentinels of the Multiverse will remain in print as long as it continues to sell. But this is the last expansion. The story continues in Sentinels Tactics and possibly other games, but SotM itself was designed around a specific story arc, and GTG is determined to stay true to that vision.
It’s ending for the same reason that there isn’t an eighth Harry Potter book.
Except there is (in a way). Follows Harry Potter 19 years later, and is being written as a 2-part play that will also be published as a book. http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/10/entertainment/harry-potter-part-8-publish-summer-feat/
But Arcanist is right. The reason it's ending is so that it ends on a high note. The story they want to tell with the card game is drawing to a close, and they want to quit while they are ahead, rather than have a game that dies because there are 1000 decks, making it impossible to carry around. A number of users have commented that they had a game they loved that they simply stopped playing because it became ridiculous to either bring around or set up due to all the expansions it had. I think SotM pretty much nailed when to get out. There's enough to keep people entertained for hundreds if not thousands of games without issue, but not so much that they worry about how much they have to transport (esp. thanks to the case)
Indeed. You might call it… Harry Potter Tactics. (I wouldn’t, though, because it will make everyone look at you strangely)
As far I remember they said its the last expansion, and they might still publish some new mini expanions.
I look at that other way - its the end of the story. I think gtg will come back to this game one day and create new story, with new characters but still in the same universe. Other option is a sentinel reboot like many comics did - similar ideas but treated differently.
Why? GtG got most of it's popularity due to this game. Other products are just a bi products of this popularity that people are mainly buying because they're fans of the sentinels and want to support authors of this game. Sentinel tactics isn't selling well(in stores) because isn't nearly as universal as a sotm is, and is mostly bought by a hardcore fans of the card game during pre-order and kickstarter. Sotm story realms - was just a dent in the overall quality feel of the gtg products. Galactic strike force is quite good ,but it's also impishly hard and that make it way less popular than sotm (also it seems that many fans of the scifi are interested in the strategy games, while fans of the comics are fans of the cooperative games and fantasy games). Spirit island is good and it's hard to judge right now, but it isn't essentialy chris and adam game. The same situation is with many of the dice & hate games. Also believing that sotm rpg will sustain them enough is a fool dream. Tabletop rpg aren't popular now as they were before - especially the one about super heroes. To summarize they need sotm to be alive (not closed line) to sustain their popularity and growth so they might use this popularity to promote new games to the people. Rest of their products aren't just as good. At least for now.
RPGs aren't popular? First I've heard of it. RPGs are still very much alive and kicking.
Given that during the opening days of the OblivAeon Kickstarter >G was not the top game related Kickstarter (on kicktraq) and an RPG was, I also question that assertion.
There's never been a traditional RPG kickstarter that's higher than OblivAeon is now, with 25 days left.
(board-game/rpg hybrids Robotech RPG Tactics and Super Dungeon Explore: Legends were higher, as were some cRPGs). Not Fate, not Numenara, not Exalted or Mage. Pathfinder and D&D5 probably do better numbers but they aren't kicked.
I love tabletop RPGs, I'm looking forward to the Sentinels Comics RPG, and I think they're very much alive and kicking as a medium. But I don't think it does anybody any good to pretend that sales haven't declined since the 80s and 90s, or that their sales are likely to be anywhere near that of the card game.
Not higher, but I'll be thrilled if the Sentinel Comics Roleplaying Game Kickstarter goes HALF this well: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnwickpresents/7th-sea-second-edition
So, here's one question that's stuck with me ever since I heard Christopher (I think it was him—I can't find the post now) indicate that it's significant that Sentinels Tactics doesn't use the word "Multiverse": GTG has said all along that they have planned a fixed timeline and number of expansions for the Sentinels of the Multiverse card game, but does that mean it's the end of the card game or just the "Multiverse" card game? For example, is there plans to continue the card game past OblivAeon, but without the word "Multiverse," since it won't really exist anymore? This could be as simple as a new major storyline arc, maybe even taking place during the same time as Tactics. Or it could be a 2.0 version of the game taking place after OblivAeon with changes to the gameplay that may or may not make it incompatible with the current SOTM.
As other have pointed out, this game does seem to be the bread and butter for GTG, so I've just been wondering if they are really planning to leave it 100% behind.
I'm not really smart enough to predict one way or the other, I'm just curious.
The problem, from a "story" point of view, is that, once the OblivAeon event happen, either the whole universe disappears, or alternate universes and timelines are no more accessible. And one of the prinicples of the game is that each fight we have is an "alternate timeline" one - not the fight in the story. Baron Blade only tried to pull the moon out once - and was stopped by the F5.
In other words : Sentinels of the Multiverse gameplay is based on the idea of multiple timelines/parallel universe.
Of course, another company would not hesiate to keep expanding the line - but it seems important for GtG. They prefer to expand the universe in other directions through other games. Tactics, the RPG, other projects they haven't talked about yet ( cooperative FILTER strategy game, anyone?).
However, it is always possible… I think for instance a "Golden Age" expansion for SotM, with Heroes and Villains from the past like Black Fist, old Legacy and Baron Blade's father could be compatible with the SotM line and would work well with us fans…
Anyway, they WON'T leave it "100% behind". They'll keep promoting it, will make events and challenges for it, maybe publish a few comics and books, will keep expanding through other games. And in a few years, if there is enough demand, especially from new players, work on a new edition with new art and revised gameplay. But, as a fan, I am content with the fact that they stop right where they wanted to. It's like TV shows - shows who try to outlive their story for money tend to slowly wither and lose in quality It's better to end big than slowly fade away. Time for a new adventure - that may or may not work, we will see !
RPGs tend to cost a lot less than board games, so you're comparing apples and oranges there.
I also think people's RPG-buying habits have changed. With the wealth of indie games out there nowadays I'm seeing people buying and playing lots of different products, whereas the norm 30 years ago tended to be that you'd pick a system, buy loads of books for that system and then play it pretty much exclusively. I know my RPG club is collectively buying far more this year than they did in 1995, and there are far fewer members now. And this is almost certainly because of the Internet.
The SC RPG will do just fine, especially if it doubles as a lore book.
It will probably make money, yes, but it's not helpful to ignore what we know about the market. Selling RPGs is a different world, with a smaller customer base.
Still, I'm sure GTG is mindful of that, and making their plans accordngly.
Sorry if was misunderstood, I wanted to say that the rpgs aren't as popular as a card and board games. Especially one about super heroes. Remember that the sotm did not have any competiton on the day of the release. Right now there are some rpg games like that out there and none of it is doing as good as a fantasy games in term of sells. Notice that 7th sea is made by the rpg world legend - john wick. And most of this popularity of the game is due to the author. Superhero rpg tabletop games have not as big consumer market as fantasy ones, and we do not know how many people will stick to the sentinel fanbase after sotm death. Tbh it seems that sotm rpg is more of the fanservice to the sentinel fans than anything else. And by death of the sotm it might mean that growth of the sentinel fans will slow down considerably.
Let me tell you about my friends. I showed them sotm and 11 of the groups bought it and are interested in the current kickstarter(and are interested to buy all of the expansions). How many of those groups were interested in tactics? 3 - including mine. How many of those are interested in backing up rpg? Just me. And we're talking about small country in europe union so we need to considerate the high shipping fees. Also i am only person who think it might be good idea to get the new tactics box ... maybe. Sotm is universal - family game with your kids - you can do it. Very hard puzzle that solve - you can do it. Mediocre balanced chips and beer game in the party? - You can do it. That and the feeling how big the world is , is a why the game is so popular. Tactics made big mistakes and became just side game for sotm fans, without the sotm... Sustaining gtg just by tactics as it is now, might be hard. And gtg is really big company now. So unless the gtg got something spectacular in store for us, and they made us interested in that before sotm will be closed as a line (january 2017) I just don't see it.
About lack of multiverse and sotm still continuing I don't think thats possible. I might be wrong, but I think this game need multiverse to have any sense. This game is about stories and stories need to have sense - thanks to the multiverse it could regardless of combination of heroes , places and villains. Thanks to the multiverse we always have an answer to anything - "because it's from another reality" and fights like a young legacy vs iron legacy are possible.
The nice thing about an RPG is that every group's story is their own universe. There probably won't be a lot of crossover between my game and your game, but the Sentinels with be at the heart of all of them. It really is a cool way to continue the story, I think. And I think a lot of people will come to appriciate it over time like they have with the card game.
For me, the hardest part of getting anyone interested in a Sentinels game (Tactis, Card Game, or RPG) is getting them to try it. Once they play, they get hooked. Yes, it may take some time for the RPG fanbase to grow as big as the card game fanbase. But if the kickstarter is any indication, I think that there are enough fans of the game to carry it on to the next generation and beyond.
Omg Christopher. I squeeed like a tweeny at a boy band concert when I first saw that kickstarter. Then sighed because my disposable income for Feb and March is all in Sentinels.
I loved seventh sea so much! Ill have to try and grab the pdfs from Drive thru after they publish
Oh, man. Now I totally want to meet up with a group running a separate SotM RPG/campaign-style series of card games and have a literal crossover between our continuities. Sentinels Of Two Worlds!
Also - the Video Game helps a lot the Card Game. I know many players that have the video game only, many of them having discovered it on Steam and having no other connection with the boardgame community. I plan on convinving some of them to play tabletop someday :D I would not be surprised if Handelabra's work was partly responsible for the succes of the KS.
The video game is good way to "convert" people from "another" hobby to the card game itself. What I mean is that a computer version of Tactics could help - especially by giving people a way to test the game before buying it.
In the same way, I know many persons (me first) who became SotM fans thanks to the old Vassal module, years ago. If it hadn't existed, I wouldn't be here today
Nice try Jeremy!!
In all seriousness though, the videogame is both a fantastic resource and an incredible adaptation of the work the >G have done. I would be shocked if they were not very impressed and considering more work wioth them in the future, which means that the Sentinels universe, if not the universe has plenty of scope to continue.
I'm pretty sure that's entirely unofficial, though. They've never said that's how it works, it's just what people like to think. So while I don't think they will (they've made way too big a deal of this being THE END for them to quietly launch more SotM stuff a few years down the line) there are no story reasons not to, beyond that it would be a new plot arc. The Void Guard variants attest to that, for a start.
The potential market for a game can be inversely correlated to the amount of set up the game requires. SotM actually requires a relatively small setup. Tactical games require more, but are still not to bad. RPGs require a lot of setup. Not necessarily at the table, but leading up to the game. People working on characters and of course the GM has a ton of up front work to do. Is it worth it. I say yes, but I am a work hard, play hard kind of guy. Most people get done with their jobs and want to relax, not spend a bunch of time with pencil and paper working on making an adventure or updating their character.
Hopefully GtG will tap into another action adventure series with a similar play, power, draw deck based game that will bring us to new and interesting worlds (Space, Arabian nights, feudal Japan, etc.
Ok we know a one thing about oblivion - if it wins nothing will survive. It could mean that there is a literal NOTHING that is an arch enemy of the next story arc. That would be beyond awesome :)
If you have one person doing a lot of the work, so long as they are nice about it, the impact on prep is minimal for the rest of the group. The in-game complication is also a factor. Some games require a lot of math and constant reminders of effects, but just like the card game not everyone has to remember everything.
I think the RPG could also pull a lot from the mechanics of the card game design to simplify setup. Most games have already-made villains/monsters, and some have pregenerated heroes. Add some pregenerated scenes and environments, and you could have several sessions of mixing and matching everything you need. With a little imagination to keep things interesting, of course.
It may take some time, but I think a lot of the card game's fans are going to eventually try and then love the RPG!
Actually, I'm pretty certain that's almost exactly what they've said. I'd have to dig through Christopher's forum posts, KS comments, and Q&A transcriptions, but basically all the crossing of timelines and universes we've been seeing is OblivAeon's doing. Once OblivAeon happens, either he'll win and all universes will cease to be, or the heroes will win but the universes will effectively* cease to interact… they'll still exist, but they'll be separate from one another and no longer form a multiverse.
*I say "effectively" since Christopher's exact words on the subject (in some other post) were something along the lines of "travel between universes will be significantly more difficult", which seems to indicate they might be leaving a [very, very] small door open for possible interraction between universes. But even if they are, said interraction would be significantly less frequent than we're seeing now.
EDIT: I just realized you may have been referring to "each fight is an alternate timeline" when you said that that's entirely unofficial. If that's the case, I have no idea and you can ignore this post.
I just think it's funny how Christopher pops in on the thread that started out all about the furutre of the company with something only relavent to a side discussion, and no new input whatsoever about the main topic. Not ironic funny or anything, like actual ha ha funny.
Because usually in such cases, no matter what you respond someone will take offense.
I am almost offended by that logic. 