Ranking the Characters

It's summer, I'm a teacher, and I feel like writing a bit about sentinels. I've played far too many games, 3-5 per day on the app, and 3-ish solo games a week, along with a weekly session of 3 or so games.  I've played everyone to excess, though some less than others.  This list, as such, changes a lot. There are no bad characters, but I think there's still, more or less, an order to their quality.  Consistency and power level when optimized are often at odds, along with very different ways of playing heroes based on both starting cards and specific villains create quite the push and pull in these rankings, but here's my attempt to order everyone, from worst to least (otherwise, where's the suspense!?).

52. Dark Watch Setback - The real problem is this Setback very often has no real use for his power phase.  If he doesn't see the right cards, he simply does not want to lose 1 unlucky token, as they power everything else he does.  That leaves him often skipping a lot early, and incredibly prone to ongoing destruction.  He's a bit of a mess without someone to really feed him cards and doesn't add anything I really want in Setback.

51. Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic - A common thread amongst my lower ranked heroes is a largely useless power phase.  Against a few villains/enviorments, you can make sure a construct is destroyed, but more often, his power phase is wasted on a potential benefit that never comes.  He badly needs his PW mates extra card plays to get anywhere, so in nearly any other team without a top tier hero, he isn't worth it.

50. Freedom Six Tempest - Tempest draws a ton of cards, so why on earth would I want to destroy his cards to draw more.  This does let him search for answer cards, particularly ongoing destruction, but at that point, he's getting most of the same benefit from just skipping his turn.

49. Prime Wardens Tempest - This is the point where the powers go from generally useless to not as good/have a big downside. In this case, three card plays can be huge, but the damage cost makes it prohibitive.  He's made to work with his team, like PW Cosmic, being fed draws and playing out cards until massive healing comes, but since he's all but useless in the power phase until he sees a new power without his specific team, or at least specific teammates, he remains lower ranked

48. KNYFE: Rogue Agent - KNYFE wants to deal damage, but this KNYFE just manages to flail about uselessly a bit too often.  She is good at tossing obnoxious villain cards that others have put at the bottom of the deck, I'm looking at you Jail Break, but otherwise, she takes too long for a glass cannon without some fairly major luck.

47.Ra: Horus of Two Horizons - This really changes the evaluation of Ra's cards, as he really likes his ongoings and extra powers far more early.  The card search is really good, but here, any ongoing destruction is a huge setback, as Ra can go turns without dealing major damage... and really, Ra doesn't do much if he isn't pumping out damage. To use this guy, one should always try and keep a back up power in hand, and, really hope for a longer game where this Ra shines.

46. The Eternal Haka - He's got the same basic issue as Horus Ra.  He draws like mad (especially if chucking Restoration and Shielding, do not chuck Battle), so he should see his powers, and his regular card plays usually have a draw rider, too.  With these, and his natural Haka hit points and healing, he ends up working pretty well unless the player has very bad luck indeed.

45. Bunker - The lowest standard hero.  I've played him as much as I have anyone, but he too often spends turn after turn waiting for something useful to do.  His draw power is nice, but he, being a core hero, has a few more mediocre or very situational cards as compared to newer heroes, and can get stuck sitting there, awaiting good cards to play.  Add in that equipment destruction can utterly destroy him, and he's just too situational for me, especially given both his alternates offer something different that his base power cannot.

44. Captain Cosmic - I really like Captain Cosmic.  He makes the game easier for all the other heroes, but he's a bit subject to the whims of chance.  Too many of his constructs are situationally useless, but his power does allow him to cycle into the needed ones far more quickly.  It frustrates me to no end that he's a support character with little to no way to handle opponents problem cards. I almost always win games where he works, but there are far too many where he feels tangental to the end result.  

43. Dark Watch Mr. Fixer - This guy deals such great damage, it's hard, like Cosmic, to see him so low.  He needs a good draw more than most though.  If you see nothing but Styles and have one you want to keep out, you have to hope someone else has an extra card they don't want destroyed.  That difficulty drops him a fair bit, but his use of Tools is second to none, and if he can keep really any tool out, he ends up doing a huge amount of work.

I'll break here before my computer shuts off or something and I lose all this writing.

You're opening a can of worms with character ranking. Just one note. With DW Setback, you can use his power even if you don't have any unlucky tokens. The two phrases aren't connected like throat jab. If you have an unlucky token, you have to spend it, but if you don't have one, you can still use the power. Still not as good as regular Setback in my opinion, but you don't have to skip your power phase if you don't have any tokens.

42. Freedom Six Wraith - Two melee damage isn't bad, this Wraith is only so low compared to her other versions, as she is in fact very often better in the early game. Still, if the villain is dealing damage, her two of the most resisted damage type tends not to keep Wraith around as long as her great base power, so that when she finally gets going, she's actually likely to survive.  This Wraith tends to look for Smoke Bombs sooner, and that's a less optimal play, so down she goes.

41. Rook City Wraith - These two are completely interchangable, though the app has given me a new appreciation of RC Wraith.  Her power is often a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but in some enviornments, Rook City and so on, it can actually be a life saver. The power on Freedom Six is better, still, but the 2-hp swing pushes it in RC's corner, since I mostly just want Wraith at a few more HP for when she really gets going.

40. Setback - We're officially on heroes that are just straight up good.  This Setback, when he gets ping-ponging in health and unlucky tokens, can single handedly win games.  His problem is wait. He wants to tank or smash, but he has cards that often only support one of the two, so you need to wait for combos. Luckily, his power both draws and builds his lucky pool so that when he explodes, he really explodes.

39. Expatriette - I almost never use her power, but she's a big damager who can get rid of ongoings and enviornments.  Still, she has guns that are semi-useless in certain matchups and little is as frustrating as waiting for a gun with a ton of ammo. She can deal big damage, but she isn't as consistent as other big damage dealers, lacking one shots to really amp things up.  

38. Prime Warden Fanatic - It is absolutely worth 3 hp to get a power use for someone and a card play and, as such, this is my favorite Fanatic in the game.  She's this low because, objectively, nothing sucks worse than that accidental End of Days, and it happens too often. Make her first and make sure the rest of the team has ongoing destruction and she can be phenomenal, but that's still conditional and fairly inconsistent.

37.  Redeemer Fanatic - This is the Fanatic to set up the alpha strike.  She's a monster at getting tons of cards and staying alive, and her one shots generally draw her still more cards. Once you see Absolution, this base power loses a lot of play, but getting all those cards makes her few bomb cards and her ongoing destruction very reliable. 

36. Guise - Play cards, draw cards, play cards draw cards.  With so many draws and plays, his combos come up pretty quickly, but until they do, he can feel like he's spinning his wheels, or be rendered useless to damage reduction.

35. KNYFE - KNYFE might deal the best damage in the game in her base form, if she can find the right cards.  Her few key cards need to be constantly cycled and it really helps her to have card draw help from outside so she can really lay the damage in. It's all she does - hit extremely hard until she dies - a solid glass cannon.

34. Dark Watch Nightmist - I love playing this character, as the set up and strategy involved are stellar, but without the Amulet of Elder Gods, she often kills herself.  With it, she often runs low on cards, and Nightmist really, really needs card plays.  Heedless Lash and Oblivion are unreal good with this Nightmist, while her draw and search cards go way, way up in value.  She can single handedly win games, if you can keep her alive and her deck from shuffling.

33.Fanatic - With any kind of damage boost, this Fanatic is an absolute monster.  With a plus two, she's one of the best cards in the game.  Without either and with a damage reducing villain, she's all but useless. Still, she can be an MVP when the situation breaks right.

Time for another break.

32. Freedom Six Bunker - He has the same problem as main Bunker in finding things to do, but while he waits around for usefulness, he can nuke enemy ongoings.  Against villains like Dawn, that can be huge, and when enemies don't have ongoings, he can skip to get the same basic benefit as core Bunker.  All of his other tricks really work the same, only this power gives the player something else to dig for while waiting.

31.  Freedom Six Absolute Zero - A damaging base changes everything, giving far more value to his various damage dealing ongoings and damage boosters.  He then only really needs one module to really get big damage going with all of his one shots, and add in the second module to use several of those one shots to heal a bit.  He sets up really fast, unlike the usual A/Z and when he does, he finds ways to bring extra pain to the villain.

30. Dark Watch Expatriette - She's way higher than her base card because her power can neuter several enemies when combined with Hairtrigger reflexes.  That and her base power have won me several games, especially when boosted by another hero or the enviornment.  The extra HP doesn't hurt, nor does amping up a mass enemy attack, or making Pride and Prejudice do 6 damage.

29. Mr. Fixer - I love Mr. Fixer.  He absolutely destroys several villains to the point where I don't mind merely skipping time and again until he's ready. Once he is, damage reduction, redirection, hitting all enemies, or clobbering two, taking away damage reducers... he just smashes faces in.  If he had more draw than toolbox, or, more specifically, a way to search tools, he'd be 20 spots higher.  As is, Grease Gun and Salvage Yard are such incredible utility, I may be underranking him.  We're officially at the really good heroes.

28. Freedom Six Unity - Playing bots until she dies for a lot of damage.  This Unity needs Stealth Bot, Swift Bot and Modular Workbench. If you don't see these early, this Unity can really kill herself.  If you do, she can eat nearly any enemy.  Don't be afraid to skip a bit early with either Unity to really get going and build steam fast.  Once she does this, Unity's damage is second to none, so long as she can survive long enough to keep it going.

27. Absolute Zero - Well, maybe Unity's damage is second to a ping-ponging Absolute Zero.  If he draws at all well and the villain and enviornment don't wreck his set up, A/Z can destroy enemies.  He damages and heals like no other.  As has been noted endlessly though, if he's disrupted, it can take ages to re-set him up, by which time the tide may have turned. Still, it takes very few turns of a fully set up A/Z to end the game.

26. Tachyon - Core Tachyon is all about the big Lightspeed Barrage, but she isn't as good at setting that up as Super Scientific Tachyon, nor is she as good at supporting a team as Team Leader Tachyon.  Still, the big Lightspeed Barrage with solid team draw, enemy damage mitigation, ongoing destruction, and extra plays is really good.  She's just way better when she sees Research Grant, while for the other Tachyon versions, that's just an extra bonus card.

25. Chrono Ranger - He has unbelievable damage potential, and unless the villain interrupts, he gets most of it off every game.  He may be the best pure damager in the game when he gets going with only a long set up time and vulnerability to either type of destruction holding him back.  He sets up fast and deals huge damage. Games with Chrono Ranger tend to be short.

24. Kvothe Six String - The negatives keep him low, so lets get him out of the way - he has a truly tiny number of hit points and he cannot use songs until he has the right instrument.  That really does make him far slower than either other Argent while his low HP demand speed.  But then you combine him with heroes that look at the top cards of villain decks or Tempest putting cards atop decks, and he destroys enemies and is essentially just giving himself free plays.  This is easy mode and keeps this version of the Argent higher than one might expect.

23. Unity - The safer Unity tends to tank damage and wait for the right cards with her massive card draw.  When she hits the right cards, she becomes a damage cannon who can do some of the coolest ongoing/enviornment destruction tricks in the game with Bee Bot and makes amazing use of out of turn plays.  Don't play her with DW Fixer and she should be an MVP against the majority of the villains.

22. Ra - A simple blaster with some longevity thanks to the staff healing.  He can't toss ongoings, but he can use them to damage all villains, which is pretty sweet, and he has some really cool immunity tricks with fire damage, along with a great team boost. He even draws pretty well. He's the simplest hero in the game, and still quite powerful.

21. Haka -  He's actually similar to Ra in damage output, with a worse damage type, but he has two huge differences.  He draws a ton, which sets up his amazing Alpha strike with Haka of Battle. He also eats minions with Savage Mana.  Those two cards, along with his massive HP and good healing, make Haka a tank who can win a game for almost any battle.

20. Tempest - Tempest hits everything for almost nothing, then he hits for a bit more, or he focusses and does huge damage and draws cards.  He protects himself, he heals himself, he tosses ongoings and enviornments.  He even has extra draw and huge damage cards. Oh and he has recursion... and the best incap power in the game.  Tempest is a great way to kick off the top 20.

 19. Young Legacy - She has a 3 damage base which can be easily made 5 every turn  Then, you can add two cards for 4 more each turn and healing.  She can eschew that to tank, with damage immunity, make allies immune, or deny villain plays.  She's a damager on par with Ra, but with truly excellent team support.

18. The Naturalist - The ultimate swiss army knife.  The Naturalist can tank, damage or handle control, switching seamlessly between the three. He badly wants extra power uses sometimes, but short of that, he's self sufficient in each role and really benefits the veteran player who knows what the team will need.

17.Sky-Scraper - She combines the damage of Haka with the control of Parse.  Switching sizes is easy and intuitive, and when it doesn't work out immediately, the base power of normal Sky-Scraper does a ton of work in creating that set up.  Sky stops damage wonderfully as either a huge or tiny character, and deals it out in both situations far better than almost anyone.

16. Omnitron-X - Passively damaging and healing is incredibly, as are free draw and card plays.  Most opponents don't damage enough to toss his components, and he sets up ridiculously fast to smash the face in of those who do.  Knowing what damage the villain will do just makes him more powerful, and his extra shielding just allows him to do more damage.  And he can toss enviornments at will while doing damage.  Ultimately, at this high up, everyone does a lot well.  Omnitron-X shines by doing it so quickly.

15. Visionary - She plays a different game than most heroes, helping everyone get ideal set ups and removing impediments. Many don't like her damage cards, but they save me in tough spots fairly often, and Mass Levetation is fantastic in certain enviornments, especially if you know what's coming is going to ruin you with massive damage.  Her only bad card is Foresight since her power is usually better used to set up other heroes, but given that her base power allows her to toss it... she can soak damage with two different cards, toss or recur ongoings, make villains smash themselves, or boost, lower and change the type of damage from any target. Her uses and tricks are incredible and she pairs well with every hero and against every villain.

14. GI Bunker - The three Bunkers have had wildly different placements, but I'm very comfortable with the placing of this Bunker so highly.  This Bunker is the advanced mode killer.  So many villains on advanced just amp up the damage reduction - this Bunker turns that into a joke.  As always, with no damage reduction, this Bunker can skip or tank to get set up, but his utility against some of the game's most frustrating and toughest matches earn this Bunker a high spot.

13. Prime Warden Haka - Most of Haka's card plays net him an extra card, so two card plays per turn still puts him ahead.  Add in that he has great alternate damaging powers, and you have a wonderfully powerful card who can finally afford to play his healing regularly.  That healing is important because this Haka has huge HP and he likes to tank mroe than any other version.  While he's doing all this, he can also offer massive protection to another hero, heal them to full, or allow the Alpha strikiest of Alpha strikes with, say a Haka of Battle powered Wrathful Retribution or Lightspeed Barrage.

12. The Sentinels - The Sentinels are super fun and combo-y and their combos allow the massive playing of cards and extra powers.  All of these lead into insane damage and huge hands with at on of options. The healing is truly most special, though, as this group, thanks to Dr. Medico, makes the closest thing the game has to a dedicated healer.  Add in the damage reducer and despite their low health, the Sentinels stick around for a long time, dealing huge damage, and keeping other heroes safe.

11. Argent Adept - The ultimate support... he literally does everything a support character should, getting set up fast, and finding what he needs.  He then proceeds to make the enemy importent and certain heroes near omnipotent.  It's incredibly frustrating to lose ongoings with him, but even with that caveat, he's usually done enough to destroy a villain by then for it to not matter.

Next... the 10 best.

10. Super Scientific Tachyon - The very best for setting up a huge Lightspeed Barrages.  She also manages to play 2-4 cards a turn regularly and rarely runs out of cards.  She'd be higher were it not for the occassional inadvertent ongoing destruction or Sucker Punch, but even those can be played around.  This Tachyon brings the pain and is my favorite of the group, if not the best.

9. Wraith - Core Wraith's lowish hit points are often a boon.  She can take her time getting set up, not that she always needs to given her plethora of plays, knowing she is safe behind Stealth.  Stealth thus so overshadows her other potential powers as to make this Wratih a top play and leave me wondering why  I'd bother with the other two.

8. Parse - Parse is the best at villain control if she wants to be.  She's also, if she wants to be, the second best at boosting damage, and among the best at getting rid of irreducible damage.  That combination of Legacy and Visionary, with a bit of GI Bunker thrown in, is simply unmatched.  She handles whatever the villain throws at the hero better than anyone and has no bad matches.

7. Prime Warden Argent Adept - The free bottom card play is his real boon.  Performs are generally better than accompanies, but his almost accidental huge set ups make for a truly monsterous character.  Add in Arcane Cadence allowing you to choose that bottom card and these plays can get out of hand quickly.  He's far faster to set up than the normal Adept and far quicker to recover from enemy tampering and get back to making everyone else a superstar.

6. Dark Visionary - Controlling the opponent's deck from T1 is absurd.  She has all the regular Visionary's tricks, although she doesn't help allies set up as well, but she annihilates villains best cards and plays.  Combine her with Kvothe for real amusement, but in general, unless the villain plays a lot of cards per turn, Dark Visionary just wins games, slowing opponents to a crawl when they usually do most damage as heroes get set up.

5. The Scholar - He's either the best tank in the game, utterly neutering the villain and letting the heroes take their time to do what they want, or he's a healing dynamo of damage, completely crushing any damage recieved and turning it into massive damage for all enemies.  He takes a bit and a lot of cards to set up, but when he is, unless the opponent packs ongoing destruction, he rolls over enemies.

4. Legacy - Legacy is all but impossible to stop.  He tanks damage like the best in the game, and he boosts allies to the point where even little pings can take out opponents.  Add in his villain control and extra draw, and his occasional huge damage and touches of healing... Legacy is the single character who in the most straightforward manner makes the game easy.

3. America's Greatest Legacy - All that stuff about Legacy, yeah? Add in a free power for whoever on your team has the best one.  And a hit point. Thanks.

2. Nightmist- This Nightmist is my favorite and pick for best character in the game, but she absolutely, 100% needs Amulet of the Elder Gods.  With it, she's nearly immortal, especially as allies die and give her bonuses.  She just rarey takes damage, can heal it all away when she does, draws for herself or others, does mass damage, gets extra plays, and gets rid of opponents ongoings or enviornment problems.  And she just doesn't die. That's pretty big.

1. Team Leader Tachyon - She makes it so no one dies. Extra card draw for everyone every turn gets out of hand quicky, as suddenly all heroes are flush with options and fully set up. Since everyone is good, TLT makes sure they reach their uber set up almost every game.  She isn't immortal like Nightmist, but she makes villains die.

i get get that, but losing 1 is an issue when you're trying to build a pool of tokens.

I say this every time someone posts another ranking/tiers thread, but I think it's pointless to rate heroes on anything other than a scale of how much you enjoy playing them.

There are just too many variables to take into consideration to be able to categorically say that this hero is better than that one.

• number of heroes
• who the other heroes are
• villain
• environment
• your own personal play style
• your experience level
• play styles and experience levels of other players
• luck of card draw
• regular vs advanced
• etc

Examples: Tempest's better against Voss than he is against the Dreamer, I'm not as effective with Argent Adept as I am with Absolute Zero, Legacy isn't always Nightmist's best friend, Unity performs worse against anyone who hits the lowest HP target a lot, Wraith can recover from heavy equipment destruction villains/environments better than many of her fellow heroes.

Which hero us the best? The correct answer is always "it depends".

I find this type of threads interesting, it's gives a framework (ranking) and a justification on the choices in that ranking.

In the end, valueing game aspects is another way of appreciating and enjoying the game, outside of actually playing it.

I would disagree, there are characters who work better against certain types of opponents, but then there are characters who are good against more than not, which is why you could rank them higher. For example, Wraith can be used in just about every possible situation without losing too much of her usefulness. The likelihood of her pulling a dead card in an encounter is pretty rare, and between her card fetch and all around usefulness, she is one who I would have ranked higher (but that is neither here nor there). I think the same can be said about Visionary as well, there are few situations she is going to be in where you go "Well, I wish I would have brought X instead". 

I'm a big NBA fan, so you could take LeBron James and Chris Paul, both are good players (both are perennial All-Stars, Olympic Teams, Playoffs, shoe deals, etc) but despite that most people would say LeBron James is better. They're not on the same team, don't play in the same conference, don't have the same coach, and play different positions, but there is still the comparison. Maybe not the best analogy there, but I think the principal is still the same.

I think the important thing is that Pulsegazer is just issuing his own personal taste. He also hasn't actually insulted any heroes or said that any heroes were objectively bad. This is just their general usefulness according to him. Anyone is free to make their own list that is similar or different. This isn't a Mr. Fixer needs fixing or Chrono Ranger is underpowered thrread.

Nightmist does not need Amulet of the Elder Gods.   As long as Nightmist gets out Master of Magic, Starshield Necklace, or Amulet of the Elder Gods before she is too low on health she is fine.  Amulet of the Elder Gods allows her to be more damaging but it's not essential to play her effectively.

Heroes can still die with TLT out.   What she brings to the table with her base power is huge certainly as it means the other heroes will get the cards they need for combos or to have a more effective turn with what they can play.  However, having those cards mitigates bad draws but does not help you get anything into play quicker.  It also makes Tachyon less effective individually as she can't accelerate the number of burst cards in her trash like SST or normal Tachyon can with their base powers.  TLT has to be able to play each card from hand to get those bursts and so you have to depend on your card draw for those HUD Googles, Pushing the Limits, Lightning Reflexes to play those burst cards.  

It's my biggest reason why I enjoy SST over TLT, the play advantage over TLT is huge, granted you may not get what you what, but milling for burst cards are pretty big in my opinion. Not only that, she can mill any deck, so if you use someone like Visionary to put stuff on the bottom of a deck (Villain or Hero) you can mill those to kill or put out something you know wont be that bad.

X-Treeeeeeeeeme!!! lets Guise ignore DR and is the only card I'm aware of that lets you ignore redirection as well   Guise the Barbarian also ups his damage enough to bypass DR

Amulet of the Elder Gods is not a necessity. This version of Nightmist is a bigger fan of Master of Magic since she stacks her deck with her base power and can mitigate what damage she receives without needing to discard cards.  This version of Nightmist doesn't have the card draw of the base version and this discarding to the Amulet or Starshield Necklace can deplete your hand real quick if your don't have an Enlightenment coming up.

I like Parse a lot but her biggest issue is that she need someone to tank damage for her.  If the villain/environment target everyone or low health heroes a lot she can be taken out quickly. However, if she can get Extrasensory Awareness out she should be able to prevent a lot of damage that could come her way. Extrasensory Awareness is easily the best card in her deck.

I'm not much of a fan of Freedom Six Wraith either as she has the lowest HP of the versions at 25 and her base power becomes useless quickly.   It doesn't get buffs from Micro Targeting Computer and even without that in play throwing knives gives you one more option on targets.   The main benefit of the that power is that it does give Wraith an initial damaging power in case you somehow don't draw any of her damaging equipment.  

Rook City Wraith I'm a little higher on as that version has the highest health at 27 and if playing this version the base power is worth using at times.   It does really well in the two city environments of Rook City and Megalopolis allowing you to dodge some of the worse cards in them and get to the more beneficial ones quicker.  

I'm with the OP on TLT. It may be just my playstyle, but when thinking of best character or best team, it always starts with TLT, no matter the villain, environment, or other heroes.

I would agree.  However, I expect Tachyon's turn to be lackluster compared to normal or SST beyond giving everyone a card.  

The card advantage that SST has is nuts. TLT certainly has her place and is quite good, but the versititlity of SST is quite nice to have. Although I think I've made it clear in my limited post I would put her in my top 3 ;).

I honestly don't get much use out of SST's power, because most of the time I use it, I end up discarding two cards I'd really rather have played individually (or, on a villain, playing two cards I'd much rather have discarded). It's happened maybe once or twice that I've actually been able to use it to put out cards I wanted. Just too unpredictable for my tastes.

The great thing about Super Scientific Tachyon’s power is that she wins either way: she gets to charge up her big attacks drastically faster than normal even if you don’t play the cards. If you do, well, that’s just more awesome!

My opinions on your opinions aside, I think this is quite a nice writeup you did Pulse.

But we need to chat about your rankings of Redeemer and DW Fixer…

PW Fanatic takes a top 10 hero and turns her into a goddess of holy destruction.

To rank it below the "nun with a sword" Redeemer Fanatic shows you are clearly an agent of the Host.

Without it though, how often do you deck yourself? Granted, in long games, you might make it that long, but you shuffle everything back together anyways and you get to try again. Not only that SST works on any deck, so if Visionary just placed two cards on the bottom of a deck you really want out for some reason, you can do that. Or you can fish in someone else's deck who has been slow to get something out. In the worst case scenario, you send two cards to the graveyard that have dps potential if either of them are a burst, if you use it on herself.

Personal preference here, but I dislike SST Tachyon and PW Adept compared to their normal cards.  Give me control over speed and recklessness.

Also, Greatest and Finest Legacy are easy to rate, the larger your team, and more damage instances you generate the better off you are with Finest Legacy.  The smaller your team, and more gimicky your strategy, the better Greastest Legacy is.

Young beats both in my book.

I was waiting for Foote and Skippy to show up w/ their Fanatic debate (Redeemer is still better).  Also, I know it seems squishy, but I have played a pretty sizable number of games with PW Tempest and it is just a straight up best base power (especially when you get a opening hand Otherworldly Resiliance).  The thing about Tempest is he always has 3-4 cards you want to play on any given turn, especially when setting up, so even doing just one turn of this to get our OW/Hail Storm/Cleansing Downpour/Hurricane/Electrical Storm out.  Throw in an Aquatic Correspondance in the chain and we've refilled our hand at the same time.

Also, I almost refuse to play Expat without SST at this point (thank, SOTM:TVG).  SST has pretty replaced all other versions of Tachy for me at this point

Not very often, admittedly, but even if I'm putting more bursts into the trash, I still want to get use out of the cards – Blinding Speed, Fleet of Foot, Synaptic Interruption are all cards I would rather have in hand or in play than in the trash. Also, if you're sending cards to the trash then only one of them can be a Burst, the other is something you only get use out of if they're in play or in hand, like her goggles, Lightspeed Barrage, or Pushing the Limits. Having them go directly to trash is a waste, and without someone like Tempest around, they're going to stay there.

I prefer her base power for giving me a choice and letting me accelerate her card draw to another useful one. The only reason I use SST in the app is because it has a 'rewind' button, and even then, 9 times out of ten this just leads to me checking all seven decks and finding the power useless.

"waste going to the trash" -- They were on the bottom of the deck anyway, so they were never going to be useful.

"rather play them" -- Compared to her base power you get just as many cards in your draw/hand and this way you get more cards in your trash. Admittedly, you have a bit more selectivity over _which_ cards get in to your hand.

Tachyon, no matter which version, goes through her deck at least once in most of my games with her. So saying Tachyon would never make use of cards on the bottom of the deck seems like a load of balogna.

I also find all versions of Tachyon to be roughly equal. While SST can empty he deck faster than the other two, she runs the risk of incapping Heroes, destroying Hero Ongoing cards, dealing damage to something that the heroes were avoiding, playing early Light Speed Barrages, and discarding Light Speed Barrage.

Never may have been a wrong word choice, but anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. In the last four games I played with her I didn't get through her deck at all, but those happened to be the situations I was dealt. She does go through her deck quickly though, but if you get to the end of the game, and you have 14 cards left on the bottom, those cards are dead cards. Would they have triggered the use of putting them into play, or would they have been helpful? It depends, but with the high price on action economy I think it's more useful than people give it credit for. 

You always have the option of milling another person's deck as well, or using another power if it's available. It's all dependant on the situation obviously, and losing out on a LSB or gibbing an allies ongoing might suck, but it's just as satisfying when you hit a bunch of voss villains with a point of damage and prevent them from dealing damage.

The only real, consistent use I can see for SST is on a hero like Unity, Bunker, AZ or Expatriette who can pull stuff from their trash, but even then, they can't pull all their cards, so that Equipment, Mode, Ongoing or Gun card is staying in the trash.

Tachyon gets the most benefit from having cards put into the trash, sure, but enough of her cards are useful to make SST's power risky at best.

A Lightspeed Barrage on the bottom of the deck is one that'll be used when her trash is full -- the best possible time to use it. A Lightspeed Barrage in the trash will stay in the trash until a reshuffle.

Only one hero deck has a better chance to get a match than Tachyon, which are The Sentinels. Also, very few heroes make use of their trash, so failure to get a match is underwhelming. Sure Research Grant could be used, but I have no reason to do so when there is a chance for something awesome to happen. And yes, it is possible to get some good luck with SST's power, i'm fully aware. My previously post was merely pointing out that I find all versions of Tachyon to be roughly equal, followed by reasons why I find SST to be on equal terms as the other two.

See? It's really not as simple as "this hero is better than that hero". If it was, we'd all be agreeing right now.

That’s not necessarily true either. Most people agree that Michael Jordan is the best basketball player to ever live, however you can make the argument for:
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Wilt Chamberlain

So on and so forth. Just because people can’t agree on a clear victor, doesn’t mean that there aren’t better characters than others, or the discussion should or shouldn’t happen.

I agree it’s risky, but it all depends on how you value action economy. If you don’t mind taking a risk for free plays, than SST isn’t for you. However, the benefit of getting two turns (or one with her assuming she has Pushing the Limits or HUD Goggles out) is a huge advantage that is hard to pass up in my opinion.

But how do you define "best basketball player"? And how do you objectively assess "best SotM hero"?

I still insist that it depends on too many factors to be able to categorically state that this hero is better than that one.

Most people will ask “If you’re picking first in a fantasy draft of all the players, who do you take first?”. Of course, that is going to depend somewhat on personal preference, but generally you will get the same answer.

You can do these like judge action economy, win/loss percentages, the number of villains you would take them against, card advantage, damage output, damage mitigation, and probably a slew of other statistics to determine who you would take.

I’m not sure you can divide the total number of hero decks by any nice amount, but if a hero deck was taken and couldn’t be used by anyone else, and the said “You will be fighting 10 random villains, select your character”[*] you probably have some idea who you would take first. If you beat all 10 villains and you received a million dollars, would that change who you picked?

[*] This is assuming people are trying to get through all 10 villains and just not picking randos (although there is nothing wrong with that, I do it quite often and is my preferred playing style).

Of all the sports you could have picked, I'd argue that basketball is the worst example you could have used.  The reason is that every player in basketball has effectively the same position.  Some players might be better some aspects, and may speciallize, but they're all doing fundementally the same thing (compared with football, baseball, or soccer, where you have kickers and pitchers and goalies, etc).  Whereas in SotM, each hero has their own unique abilities.

For every hero, there is at least one situation where you would prefer to have that hero above all others.  That's not something you can say about every basketball player (even every professional basketball player).  Which is why agreeing on hero rankings is so much more difficult than agreeing on basketball rankings.

Yeah, it's more like asking, "Who's the best hockey player, Scott Stevens or Martin Brodeur?"

It's still fun to read and debate on.   Minding that we don't get into a straight up trolling situation.  

1. So I'll limit replies to people who are actually talking about the list rather than debating the right of said list to exist.  If you are that against this type of list, just don't read it. Very simple.  And the point isn't agreement, it's perspective and discussion... on a message board. 

2. Powerhound - I’ve never tried original Nightmist that way. I’ll give her a shot on game night this week.  I get that heroes can die with TLT out, but they just tend not to.  When heroes can optimize with that much extra card draw, villains are in trouble.  I know Guise has cards that work around those issues, but, perhaps through variance, I just don’t see those enough. Master of Magic mitigates her own self-damage, but, in my experience, often leaves her behind on enemy damage.  This is also the one card I don’t own (don’t ask), so I’ve played it least. I’ll try more on the ap. Parse could use a tank, I guess, but I very rarely feel the need for a tank.  If everyone else works well enough, tanks tend to be extra not needed.  We basically agree on the Wraiths.

3.Tachyon conversation.  I don’t like base Tachyon.  I love control and TLT allows me to best benefit the team.  SST best allows me to play an individual game. Core Tachyon does neither of those as well, so I pretty much always now pick one of the other two.  I think the huge team benefit of TLT makes her better than SST.  It really is play style, but to those who think SST doesn't work, I strongly urge you to try her more.

4. Foote - Why should Redeemer or DW Fixer be higher?  I like both a lot, but am fine with them where they are.

5. Skippy - I LOVE the PW as a group, but I feel I have to be a bit more careful in team construction with PW Fanatic than I like, since I really enjoy playing random.  I also don’t think PW Adept is really random. He really has no cards he doesn’t want to play and that extra play really just gives him more options.  Young is great, but I can usually get more than 3 bonus damage out of Core Legacy or set up an abusive combo with AG.  That leaves Young a bit behind.

6. CMS - I don’t like PW Tempest.  There are too many games where he doesn’t see another power quickly enough and I end up hitting myself a bunch more than is good.  Tempest dies a lot as is, so this doesn’t help.  Glad you like him though.

Zach Randolph and Dirk Nowitzki play the same position, and are vastly different. While baseball or hockey may have been a better comparison, I know basketball far better. Although I don’t necessarily agree with the stat weight, PER effectively places each player against each other to determine who is “best”, although there are other factors that go into determining who is better (team, coach, personality, etc). I would argue that Kobe Bryant brings something totally different to the table than John Wall, although they play similar positions (Shooting and Point Guard respectively). Football may have been a better, but again, not my Matt Forte ;).

I don’t think people need to agree to have a discussion about who is best, in fact not agreeing is better, that means that the creators did their job in balancing the game so multiple people have fun playing different ways. If people don’t think there is a best, that is fine too. My argument wasn’t to saying thinking they’re all perfectly balanced, it was simply to illustrate that a disagreement of opinion doesn’t mean anyone is wrong :).

I don’t watch baseball, sorry. I kid, I kid. Although I am a huge Brodeur fan.

I’ll keep it on track, I’m sorry :(.

It's cool not trying to scold.  I've just seen variations on this argument here like 4 times. I get it, some people don't like this kind of list.  What I don't get is why they then go onto such lists to complain rather than just ingoring them (that is not an invitation to explain why).

I can understand regular Bunker being on the list, but I generally have good success with him. Adhesive Foam Grenade is an insanely useful card. He's also a beast with Turret Mode, Flak Cannon, and Grenade Launcher. I tend to not prioritize Omnicannon. If I don't have anything else, and have managed to build up a lot of cards, then sure. Bunker is also one of the few heroes that can take an equipment from his trash and put it directly into play. I'm a little biased since Bunker was the first hero I played, and I just associate him with the game. I do agree that G.I Bunker tends to be a bit more consistently useful. Panzer Buster is situational, but man is it useful in those situations.

I also tend to rate DW Fixer higher than regular Fixer. I don't generally have too much trouble sacrificing cards since in most situations, the only style I'd want to permanently keep out is Grease Monkey. It's generally the tools I try to hang onto, except tire iron. Also, Bloody Knuckles is just fantastic with DW Fixer. You get the perks and can avoid the consequences. Even if he has a slow build, that extra two damage really pays for itself.

On Phantaskippy's Fanatic.

It is important to note that no hero has a better self heal than Fanatic.  10+ Hp that triggers exactly when you need it?  It is a crime to play in a way that limits your ability to use it.  The only HP that matters is your last HP.  Burn it.

The sheer volume of awesome cards she has makes it worth while, and the power?  OMG you can hit up anyone for that power, it is amazing.

Also you don't have to take the damage to use it.  Plenty of heroes can tank it for you.  There are so many shenanigans you can pull off, it is glorious.

With her PW allies it gets ridiculous.

I love hitting Desperation with Resolute, you get the draw and you finish your power, only missing your draw phase.  Sadly you don't skip your end phase.

My favorite thing about it is Fanatic has some really good second tier cards that you just don't play because you have better options, this power puts them in play for you, Chastise is the big one.

Take 3 damage to cause a target to not deal damage?  Many times you win that.

3 damage for a card in play is rarely a loss, and it opens the power up to any power in play, that is worth some HP cost, esp. for a hero that can dodge death.

I'm being discouraged from explaining, but what the hell. I'll say this and then gtfo. Tiers and rankings are dangerously close to all those threads on BGG claiming Fixer/Expat/Parse/whoever is super weak and underpowered, and they drive me crazy. It's like having an argument about which is the best colour.

I'm fine with having favourites, but I think it's pointless to rank or tier heroes because how effective they are is so dependent on so many external factors.

Sports players isn't even a good comparison, because one baseball game is going to be a fairly similar "environment" to another. Sure, maybe one opposing team's great at defence, one has a lot of fast runners, one does a haka to intimidate the other team, but you're still playing the same game on a similar pitch/diamond/court with the same rules.

With SotM, it's like playing All The Sports. Michael Jordan might be awesome at basketball, but could he beat Ali in a boxing match? Would Michael Phelps or Usain Bolt do better at clay pigeon shooting? Could a sumo wrestler do monster vaulting? How far can Rhonda Rowsey throw a discus? I'm not going to pick any one of them as the "best sportsperson" without knowing what the challenge is. Heroes don't fight in a vacuum.

And what's the problem with thinking X Hero is weak and underpowered and needs to go in the corner, cry and think what it did in the game? Sometimes ignoring people's opinion is the best policy, as they ignore the Hero's feelings.
Someone who used to post here got quit ignored in a different forum and not much happened.

Giving it a fighting game tier feel, the ranking looks something like this:

S: Team Leader Tachyon, Nightmist, America's Greatest Legacy, Legacy, The Scholar,

A+: Dark Visionary, Prime Warden Argent Adept, Parse, Wraith, Super Scientific Tachyon,
A: Argent Adept, The Sentinels, Prime Warden Haka, GI Bunker, Visionary,
A-: Omnitron-X, Sky-Scraper, The Naturalist, Young Legacy, Tempest,

B+: Haka, Ra, Unity, Kvothe Six String, Chrono Ranger, Tachyon,
B: Absolute Zero, Freedom Six Unity, Mr. Fixer, Dark Watch Expatriette, Freedom Six Absolute Zero,
B-: Freedom Six Bunker, Fanatic, Dark Watch Nightmist, KNYFE, Guise, Redeemer Fanatic,

C+: Prime Warden Fanatic, Expatriette, Setback, Rook City Wraith, Freedom Six Wraith,
C: Dark Watch Mr. Fixer, Captain Cosmic, Bunker, The Eternal Haka, Ra: Horus of Two Horizons,
C-: KNYFE: Rogue Agent, Prime Wardens Tempest, Freedom Six Tempest, Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic, Dark Watch Setback

At a glimpse, besides TLT, the list value highly Heroe's with damage mitigation, then deck manipulation, then utility/verstaility, then damage.
As a side note I'm really surprised at how low Captain Cosmic is.

They are weaker, but that is neither here nor there. The premise of your argument is “the game changes so no one can be good!” when things like action economy and card advantage can be an objective look at how well characters do. Even if you don’t take into consideration stuff like that, if Pulseglazer hates SST that is his prerogative, and he backed up with why he thought people should be ranked the way they were. More power to him.

I think you mistakenly left Rook City Wraith out of the “S+” category ;).

For serious though, is there any reason you left her off the S list? Impromptu Invention is generally regarded as one of the best cards in the game (as it’s a tutor and replaces its own play…and another play…) plus she is quite versatile.

Does your Nightmist ranking change if you're playing with a team with more ongoing/environment destruction, or would you say she loses any value? I'm partial to control, so my top three looks vastly different from your own, but my scale is weighted more towards locking down decks than damage. Although I haven't played Nightmist too often, the few times I have I've enjoyed her. I'll have to play her again on Friday to see how she plays in place of Fanatic in my super 4, but losing out on End of Days/Embolden/Chastise and a few other her cards might make me cry on the inside

Don't choose, play them both!  They work incredibly well together (I am a bit biased as they are my two absolute favorite heroes to play).

Unfortunately we only have 4 people (on Fridays), and Fanatic is usually the one to be switched out (although not always). Visionary/SST/Wraith pretty much are permanent members of the punch badguys in face club when we're play testing group comps. During a random game I'll probably pick her up as well just to give her a good run. 

Neizlabub - Ultimate set up Bunker can compete with anyone, but, and perhaps this is just variance, too often I go without Flak Cannon.  Grenade Launcher is okay, but without a boost, it really just pings most enemies.  I'm not a huge fan.

Skippy - That's a really interesting outlook on Fanatic, and one I haven't thought of.  I am now trying dufferent style Nightmist and more PW Fanatic on Friday.

Sheepz - I think regular Wraith is way better than Rook City.  More survival = more time to get out those great cards.  Wraith is occasionally really underwhelming in the early game, and I like the main one's ability to stay alive for when she's the best hero late game most.

I'm not saying that "no-one can be good", just that all heroes have their niche. Every hero has situations where they will shine, and situations where they are a liability, not matter where they are on your scale. I still maintain that the answer to the question "Which is the best hero?" is "It depends what you need".

How, exactly, are you objectively assessing that particular heroes are "weak" or "strong"? 

You just don't quit.

You mean I haven't changed my mind after the convincing argument of "nuh-uh, I can so say this hero is bad because basketball"?

If you don't enjoy ranking of characters, don't ruin it for the folks that do. Let them have their fun. (Hopefully you haven't already damaged their enjoyment enough to kill the thread… )

And feel free to start your own threads about how you don't like ranking of characters.

I think the best thing about rankings is how it reveals your playstyle, and seeing other people's rankings can cause you to question how you play a character.  Foote is really good as Redeemer Fanatic, I've tried playing her, I can't stand it.  But Foote also does great as Scholar, and the way he plays Scholar is pretty awesome, and is better than the way I played him.

One of my favorite evaluations is SST vs TLT, the war of Tachyon.

Where it gets interesting is with Research Grant.  Once the option of Research Grant arrives I ditch Experiment for Research Grant, both burn 2 cards from her deck, one puts cards into play or the trash, while the other puts 2 in hand, and then a card of your choice to the trash.

The crux of the decision is Goggles and Reflexes.  With cards that give you more play then draw the benefit of the odds for putting random cards in play starts to be offset by your inability to best take advantage of cards in hand to play.

While SST holds an advantage in cards in play during an average once through the deck, it is not a huge margin at all, and you lose control of what cards are played and go to the trash for that extra cards in play.

Obviously vanilla Tachyon loses, but the odds of getting Research Grant are actually better with TLT than SST, which for me puts the optimal use of Tachyon being TLT, with intelligent use of research Grant once it comes up.

Rapid Recon falls far behind Experiment, and behind Team Leader over the course of the game in cards in play, which hurts its advantage of cards to the trash.

Obviously I'm not going into the actual numbers here, just thought I'd give an example of the debate that is available.

With SS Tachyon, I also generally favor research grant over experiment, but there have been a few times, where I just needed to do an extra point of damage and gambled with experiment and paid off. Sometimes, that extra card play comes in really handy at the end game.

Rabit - yes, exactly.

Experiment vs. Research Grant is tricky. Let's assume I have two cards in hand I want to play and HUD Goggles. At that point, I almost always Experiment, extra plays being better than another card to play, usually.  If I then play those two cards and only have one left to play (no Nimble or Fleet), I'll then Research Grant.  It's worked out well, and SS Tachyon is almost certainly my best hero currently on the ap because of that ability to get either many extra plays or play just the right card.

I REALLY want to try PW and Redeemer Fanatic now.  Anyone have Redeemer advice?

Experiement vs. Research Grant, in my mind depends on what you're doing next turn.  If you're holding a hypersonic assault and a blinding speed that you're planning on using next turn, then you don't need the extra card draw that Research Grant gives you, and you can Experiment for the possible bonus.  But if you don't have anything good to do next turn, then use the grant to get you what you need.

Similar for Team Leader - you need to balance whether you have something to do next turn against whether the other players have something to do.  If your team needs your help, then you act as team leader.  But if they don't need you, then use your grant to get your own value.

The worst thing, in my mind, about Experiment is that I always want to experiment on random teammates, yet strategically the best choice is almost always to experiment on Tachyon.  This always makes me sad.

Experimenting on the Sentinels seems like a good choice. Almost all their cards are one shots.

They are a good choice, but Tachyon is still a bit better because we're trying to fill her trash, while we don't care about the Sentinel's trash.

It's a little like O-X's base power. It can be really useful with other heroes, but most of the time, he's better off using it on himself. Still though, if you need to do a lot of damage to a lot of targets, the Sentinels can be a great choice for a one turn experiment.

I don't see much value in using Research Grant as TLT.   Using her base power nets you the same amount of cards that Research grant does and have the additional benefit of granting card draw to all the other heroes.    I would say you would need to be really desperate to get a burst car into the trash to use Research Grant with TLT.   With SST I understand using it instead as it gives you more controls than her base power.  I still like regular Tachyon as I still feel it's gets her up and running in a more controlled manner.   

Redeemer - so I think one of the reasons that folks like skippy who are great at playing Fanatic as a self damaging dynamo dont like her is because common wisdom seemed to be to use Redeemer to just dig for Wrathful and set up for power turns - which doesnt synergize amazingly well with the healing on her base power.  Redeemer is my favorite version of Fanatic, and to me the key cards with this version are Divine Focus and Sacrosanct Martyr.  With an almost certainty of extra cards every turn, Divine Focus goes from somewhat situational to amazing (especially because Fanatic will have dead cards in nearly every villain matchup).  Martyr becomes a slighty "safer" option than normal since the damage mitigation is built in if you need it and it is the best single target damage power in the game.  I recommend to not play this version like you have to dig for her power cards and do nothing else - use your HP and healing advantage to tank, use cards like Divine Sacrifice to help your team, and use the fact you can dig through your deck twice as fast to get to Divine Focus or your relics even faster. That's the way I play her, anyway

I've learned my lesson not to feed the trolls and jerks here

A lot of people I know don't like any version of Fanatic, and when I first started playing the game I felt she was a tad underpowered. After playing her (I haven't played the Redeemer version sigh) quite a few times, I think one of her versions would rank in my top five. Assuming we have enough time I'll try playing a few games with Redeemer and PW and see which one I like better (hopefully we have redeemer sitting around someplace). Especially at the local game shop, Fanatic is pretty much ignored.

This forum doesn't really have trolls here.  Everyone can be a jerk once in while because they feel their point is being ignored.  However, I don't feel that Silverleaf was being either.  She just doesn't agree with the hero ranking and the analogies given didn't really change her opinion on it.  

I don't necessarily expect every debate to end in swaying an opinion, but being asked to stop and continuing, and then presenting an argument as though it was given by a child is pretty jerky. 

Btw, since you're a big fan of Guise (and I think one of my friends finally got him, let's hope he bring him tomorrow night) would you rank him as your #1 seed, or would you put someone else above him? A guy at the store I go to is a huge fan of his, but indicated to me that he wasn't the best. Since I've never played him (or even seen him played) I'm not sure if he just got a few bad plays and made his decision, or he actually spent time with him at all.

All conversation regarding whether it was right or wrong stops now. As far as I am concerned, there were strong comments on both side that didn't help the situation.

There is no need to respond to this comment.

As to my favorite heroes to play Guise is certainly the top one for me.   As to how effective he is can vary.   I feel he has a vibe like Parse at times where certain cards are great in the villain /hero matchup you have and other times where they discarded to another ability without much thought.   Given the right team Guise can certainly be the dominant hero throughout but in others he needs to build up his hand to lay out devastating effects. 

Is he more along the lines of AZ where he needs 3-5 turns to setup, or more like Visionary where you are more reacting to what is going on around you? But probably my favorite deck to play is the Sentinels (when they're not being one-shotted on turn one by bad draws) but I wouldn't rate them as the best, probably not in my top five even. But I enjoy support and healing, and I can't pass up Dr. Medicine Man ;).

I'd say closer to AZ in that he's more of a finisher who does plinks along the way to his hand build up.  He builds up that hand so he gets the most use out of the powerful limited ongoings he has.  However, unlike Absolute Zero Ongoing/equipment destruction is not as devastating since his ongoings only stay out one round.   Also, If you need a more immediate reaction Guise can do that by using Look What I Found to help take down a hardier target and some Ongoings like Total Beefcake or  Gritty Reboot are always worth playing.  What hurts Guise more then anything is being prevented from drawing cards or massive discards. 

If anyone is unhappy with someone else's behavior, the correct way to report that is to send a PM to one or more of the Mods (arenson9, rabit, pydro). 

Calling other people trolls and jerks, even indirectly, isn't acceptable.

If it seems like we're coming down hard on relatively minor offenses it's because we've been down the road of letting things fester, and we don't want to go down that road again.

In fairness to Guise, discards hurt most decks pretty badly. With the exception of maybe Tachyon and Parse (assuming critical multiplier is out, and even then it's not ideal) going from 3 cards to 0 because of bad RNG is always the sux. Citizen Dawn makes me cry when that happens, as well as the Enforcers for the operative. Just ran into that last night…someone is discarding and spending four turns staring at the ceiling

Regarding Redeemer Fanatic- that's how I've always player her, but I apparently don't value her self save enough.  I'll try with that change on mind.

Can I just chime in that I love these posts?

I don't get to play the physical game as much as I'd like. I have all the current expansions, but no variants (I'd print them out, but they'd just collect dust ATM) and unless I have a quiet night I just don't get to play even solo. I love the VG and have it on Steam and my Kindle. The only problem is in the app I play in a vaccuum, I don't get exposed to other people's play styles and opinions. I've learned and grown as a player through these kind of threads. 

More than anything else these threads (devoid of trolling) serve as a foundation to conversations that wouldn't be had without something to get it started. 

In regards to Redeemer: I was never realy fond of her, I can see how with a couple of buffs she can be awesome but her entire play style is a mystery to me.

The true difference in redeemer to me is the card draw. The extra card draw allows bigger use of divine focus and if you have another useful power you can embolden yourself to keep drawing a card for 1 damage. That extra card draw also helps finding Wrathful Retribution and having fodder to discard for it. It'll also help fanatic having the best one shot at any moment.

I thought pw captain cosmic was broken in the too powerful way then I did some digging and found they fixed him so I can agree he is one of the lowest but technically when this list was made, the official ruling for pw captain cosmic was nearly omnipotent.

The power no longer stacks.  If you shuffle in a construct that is the only way to get a play/ draw

2 Bajillion games later, give or take a few, I should update this with the new variants.  Maybe over break.

Was this ruling from the video game? Last I tried, you can choose not to shuffle and still get a play/draw.

That is a ruling in the video game and by Christopher.   It should apply to the current released version and is even mentioned in the release notes http://steamcommunity.com/games/337150/announcements/detail/585863462553546410

>

Prime Wardens Captain Cosmic’s innate power can no longer be “stacked.” You may only draw or play a card if you shuffle the destroyed construct into your deck.