Absolute Zero is great

I finally had everything line up nicely with modules, frost bound drain, thermal shockwave, and dealt a ridiculous amount of damage to poor Grand Warlord Voss.

I've seen it play out before but it didn't really click for me until I had all the pieces right in front of me. I'm just glad AZ had 18 health when he hit himself for 17 fire. 

It didn't hurt that Tempest had the elemental subwave inducer and localized hurricane for feeding hit points back to AZ while he ramped up.

Also didn't hurt that Voss was subjected to Take Down while Pillars of Hercules were up.

For added fun, try putting Twist the Ether on AZ sometime. When you can control which type of damage he's doing and roughly how much, he becomes a monster of extreme flexibility.

I find AZ frustrating sometimes, but he's definitely one of those guys that when you get him going right, it almost feels like cheating.

see, the reason I'm not to fond of AZ is because I feel like it's too easy to make him useless. Anything that gets rid of equiptment, anything that changes damage type (like cramped quarters combat), or not drawing the right hand. I have had so many time where the team's AZ had no module cards for 3 turns, so he had to just sit there and do nothing

I've had games as Absolute Zero where he had no module and still rocked everything in his path.

Bad hands happen with every character.  For a long while I hated playing Wraith because I constantly had some terrible hands. Just because you don't get a module out doesn't mean AZ is useless.  You can play effective games without seeing either module.  

Same. I will usually put out Impale and Cold Snap before a Module. Even if I get one, only Iso seems worth it until his health is low.

Fixed that for you.

Impale needs to get out as early as you can manage to get the most value out of it (unless you know theres ongoing destruction in the near future)

It could just be me, but I will use cards like Frost Bound Drain, Thermal Shockwave, etc. without a Module in play. Do they work better with a Module, sure, but they still work without them.

Stop stealing my lines!

Not just you, Pydro. 

I've played Absolute Zero a few times, and this was the first time I was able to get both modules and focused apertures out. I've had AZ do well without all of those things, but having them all was fun. 

Also fun was having Ra hit Absolute Zero.

Once I stopped caring about being able to heal I started using Elemental Wraith AZ instead of vanilla AZ.  I also love Imbued Fire with Thermal Shockwave, Iso is nice, but not needed.

I didn't going in caring about these things. :) I was using five random heroes against a random villain and I was expecting AZ to be his usual "deal some damage" self, but I got all the good stuff and extra plays so I put it all out, and it was surprisingly good, on the order of dealing 30+ cold damage in one turn. I didn't expect that.

Also, I am looking forward to giving Elemental Wrath AZ a try, although I am waiting to get variant cards before using variants.

I like the more complex decks, and AZ was my early favorite. The feedback of all his cards and flow of damage suits my need for numbers.

AZ without support is a B- deck. His effectiveness comes from + Damage Dealt, which makes Legacy all that much more important. Adept, TTE, and the other rare + Damage Dealt abilities Are far more effective on him, because it helps him damage and heal himself. With support, he is one of the few decks I call A+. That amplification may be why AZ has no normal nemesis deck, just a Vengeance minor leaguer in Proletariate. A full on Nemesis for AZ may amp him up, and might wind up with problems for balancing that deck.

AZ is vulnerable to large-scale destruction, but so is everyone else. He can take longer to recover, but he has good deck search for his mandatory modules and trash search for what was wrecked.

I tend to use AZ to soak Highest Hero Damage (HHD) before worrying about him dealing damage with Impale, etc. When he is soaking well, games end with 20 HP remaining on all heroes, regardless of how long the game lasts.

Yeah, I had Young Legacy, Super Scientific Tachyon, Absolute Zero, Ra, and Tempest. I was using Ra and Tempest (in his case with damage changed to cold) to pump both AZ's healing and damage output, plus inspiring presence was out. It was pretty brutal.

The only time I didn't really get much out of Absolute Zero at all was trying to do a Freedom Five vs. Miss Information thing, and she had so much ongoing and equipment destruction out there was no sense in playing much of anything beyond what was strictly necessary to deal with diversions. Once she flipped (after a long time) the heroes were so far behind there was no catching up. Most every other time in the app and card game both he deals a respectable amount of damage even without having all his toys out.

Not all Heroes are great against all Villains. They all have strengths and weaknesses.

For Miss Information you want Ongoing destruction and deck manipulation. AZ can do some good Ongoing destruction, but he needs to hold onto it until all the clues you need to flip MI are in play. AZ has no deck manipulation. Since he is reliant on Modules to deal damage or heal, if you can't keep Equipment in play he is nigh useless. Other characters have reasonably useful Innates and decent one-shots, but his one-shots are also suicidal without Modules.

Wraith and Visionary for MI. Both can put Clues on the top of the Villain deck and get you to where Ongoing destruction can start. You may want to destroy some Ongoings that are harsh on particular characters.

There are multiple ways to deal with Equipment and Hero Ongoing destruction (or at least the ones that don't destroy it all). Choose heroes that all put out lots of it to overwhelm the destruction, or heroes that rely on One-shots and don't need Equipment or Ongoings. When you go with random heroes, you sacrifice this and lose because your strategy was poor. If AZ is the only Equipment heavy character, then put him away and take someone else. Unlike Wraith, who can flood out Equipment, or Bunker, who can switch modes to flood out cards at times, AZ rarely puts more than 1 Equipment or Ongoing in play per turn, so even 1 per Turn destruction stops him... cold. But if 4 heroes are putting out 2.5 per turn average, then they build slowly, but they do build.

I prefer the challenge of random myself, even if it occasionally gives me unfavourable match ups. It feels kind of unsporting to me to swap out a hero if I don't think they'll do well this match, but of course that's just my preferred play style. No judgement on people who pick heroes, that's perfectly valid too.

I just enjoy winning under non-ideal circumstances, and I learn more and play better if I play random even if my win rate is lower. I don't consider it poor strategy, because I'm forced to adapt my play to fit these more challenging circumstances. I have to think more.

I beat the crap out of Miss Information with Parse, Haka, and Fanatic* in Pike Industrial. Miss Information was actually defeated by an exploding irradiated cyclohexine vat, which made me quite happy. 

I didn't take random heroes against Miss Information the first time, either - I took Legacy, Absolute Zero, Wraith, Tachyon, and Bunker. Miss Information had enough ongoing + equipment destruction going (because of five heroes, and because multiple cards added to it) that I couldn't accumulate any equipment with any of the characters. I think the real problem that took the heroes down, however, was picking Freedom Tower as the environment and getting pretty much all the forced entry points in play. I did not realize that the Freedom Five was so unsuited to fighting Miss Information, and I also did not realize that Freedom Tower was such a potentially harsh environment and I made some bad calls about not removing certain environment cards.

I didn't have any issues with ongoing destruction, as I was able to remove all of her clues as soon as she flipped and kept them gone. 

When I said regarding the other thing "It was pretty brutal" I meant it was brutal to Voss, who was frozen to glass-like brittleness by Absolute Zero opening all of his apertures and dealing 30+ cold damage in one turn and leaving Voss at -12 or so.

Anyway, all that said, I love to click random on the app, and I use Spiff's randomizer at least half the time I play anything, and while I have lost a few of those fights I find I can go back to them with a better chance of winning due to knowing how the villain, heroes, and environment worked. I have yet to lose a random game on the app, although there's a lot less variety to choose from so far.

Not to dismiss your advice, I am just not entirely clear why you mentioned random heroes when the game I described with random heroes was a clear win, and the game I described losing was not due to random selection.
 

* fixed - I had prime wardens on the brain

This is the only way I'm learning how to play the game, really. Doing random selection, or effectively random selection, to see what I end up with. I did lose a lot of games because I hadn't fought those villains before, or I just had bad luck. I don't mind losing as long as I am not always losing.

Next time you take the Freedom Five against Miss Information, try bringing Super Scientific Tachyon. She can uncover clues with science!

I don't have SST as a physical card yet, although I could just write everything down on a piece of paper or something.

She would have helped a lot, though.

Belle, I was responding to this comment. Ongoing destruction shouldn't have been a huge problem with Tach and Wraith (with a little from AZ), but you would need to concentrate it on Concealed Betrayal, and soak Suspicious Malfunction's damage while awaiting MI's flip. Wraith's IE needs to stay out to keep Another Reality's Debt from hitting the playing field.

I greatly disagree. Random decks are not a challenge, they are a cop out. Losing a game with random decks means that you can fall back on the excuse that the decks were wrong to win, and not blame yourself for a loss.

When I lose using chosen heroes, I don't have that cop out. I chose the wrong deck (or decks), so I am at fault. Yes, I win more often. No, I don't always win. Rarely, there is an identifiable reason, such as too many decks coming out weak, and the villain coming out too strong (ie. Akash'Bhuta starts the game with 8 limbs in play, but AZ has no modules, Legacy is choked with duplicate Limiteds, and so forth), but ofen enough it is my own darn fault for overlooking a defect in a pre-selected combination of cards that didn't achieve what I intended. Lesson learned, try something else.

There are two levels of challenges in this game. The one you focus on is card play. That equates to battlefield tactical decisions. You either have the cards you need or you don't in this game. (You have a bazooka to take out the tank, or you have a useless rifle and better run and cede the field.) The decision where you assign forces to deal with a problem is a strategic decision. I consider it to be at least as vital as tactical, if not the more important decision since it limits losses. You are learning how to play the cards you draw. I do that, too, but I also learn how to play the decks.

Sorry, I do not buy that it is a greater challenge. You are abandoning the greater challenge.

Maybe they are equivalent challenges at different scopes.  In one situation it is harder to win but you can gain some surprising insight into interesting combinations.  In the other it focuses on defeating the villain deck as a whole by planning the right deck combinations.  I think they are both valId and interesting ways to study and play this game we love.

If you aren't able to get your hands on it, I have an extra copy if you want it.  PM me if so

I didn't have any problem with ongoing destruction, but I did have a problem with Miss Information's ongoing and equipment destruction before she flipped. I wasn't able to put out enough equipment to overwhelm the destruction that I was up against until the flip. However, the flip took long enough that things were going downhill badly when the flip occurred. 

And even with this context I don't understand why you were talking about random teams when this wasn't one.

This is kind of presumptuous isn't it? There are a lot of ways to enjoy this game, and I think random games is one of those ways, esp. given that people have made online tools to support it and the video game has a randomize function as well.

Indeed. So far I've enjoyed both, and yes I do lose more often with random matchups. Losing the game isn't the end of the world, after all. 

Can you point out where Silverleaf claimed that it was the greater challenge? I see her stating her opinion, while you are stating her opinion is false and that your opinion is true.

A bit pre-emptive, here, but just a reminder to keep things civil. Remember we all play differently, like different things, have different objectives, and have different opinions.

As Ronway said, kreistor, this is all opinions, and none of us is more right than any other when it comes to things like this (e.g., where we don't have unbiased data that can be used to back up a position).

I greatly disagree.

At no point when I lose, whether using Random decks or chosen heroes, do I blame anyone other than me. I played the cards that I did, in the order that I did because I made those choices.

There is no cop out (unless Police Backup is on the scene).

EDIT: ugh I'll swear Rabit's post wasn't there when I was reading but I'm leaving this up for the excellent pun.

Yeah, I don't blame the decks for losing when I lose. I know that the outcome in large part stems from my choices. I don't use randomness to shift the blame, although I can see how some decisions (like four heroes against Dreamer or five against Miss Information) made things more difficult than they had to be. I don't need to be told not to use random selection - I like using it and will use it when I want to. One thing is that I am still learning most hero and villain decks, so that is going to play a role no matter what I do.

And I didn't come to the card game with no experience, as I'd already played several games in the app prior to getting the card game.

I have to confess that I have an addiction.

It's the Argent Adept. Once I got a taste of his Sarabande of Destruction, I couldn't stop. I play him nearly every game now, mainlining those extra actions and blowing up villain cards. Those extra plays. Recycling cards from trash. Whatever he does get is pretty useful, the only drawback is setting everything up.

Clearly, I have a problem.

I try not to play the same heo for two rounds in a row, just because I don't want any to get too stale. So i usually go two or three games before seeing the same hero in front of me. I do have my favorites, but I try to cover everybody

Yeah, I've done like three games straight involving various permutations of the Prime Wardens (two with Argent Adept), and then two games before that with Argent Adept. I mostly used him more to try to get a handle on how he works. Still, he probably needs a break. I still need to try the Sentinels, give Sky Scraper a better shot, Expatriette, some more Mister Fixer, Nightmist, Setback, Unity, probably others I'm forgetting offhand.

The sentinels are my favorite hero(s), I'm a huge fan of sky scraper (I usually play as tiny scy scraper), Mr. Fixer is great, and Setback is tricky but really fun. Nightmist is also a favorite among a lot of my friends, If you can use her right, she is really brutal

I have used Sky Scraper once but I didn't use her very effectively - it was against Infinitor and I lost rather messily. I don't remember who else I played in that one, though. I did like her mechanic. Shrinking down and using links, then growing to colossal size and intercepting damage was cool. Plus clapping was pretty handy against the manifestations.

I haven't tried the sentinels yet because I have a small space for playing - I do think I have plenty of space for them given that most of their cards are one-shots, however.

Spiff's randomizer gives me Guise, Mister Fixer, The Sentinels, and The Scholar vs. Spite in Omnitron IV. For a second game, Nightmist, Tachyon, The Sentinels, and Sky Scraper vs. Plague Rat in the Tomb of Anubis. Giving these a go tomorrow when I am more properly awake.

I realize I could go down in flames, but eh, it won't be the first time I've lost.

That is losing because of lack of familiarity with the heroes, with the environments, or otherwise lack of experience. I'm not out to blame the poor randomizer for my choice to use it, but I do get to choose to use it. :D

Even if you're completely familiar with the way a deck works, you can still get utterly destroyed if the cards don't go in your favour. I had a game once against Dawn in which her starting Citizens were Sweat and Tears. That meant a forced discard of two cards per hero at the end of the turn. During the Play phase she put out Blinding Blast - everyone discards two cards. So we started our turns with no cards but there was no real point in drawing two (though we did anyway) as Sweat and Tears would force us to discard them on Dawn's turn before we were able to do anything with them. I can't even remember which environment we were in but it didn't really have any chance to help us out, whatever it was. We lasted about three or four rounds, I think. I seem to recall Dawn managed to put Truth out in that time as well, just to really rub it in :P.

That is the worst, I have hd that happen more times than I'm willing to admit, and it's awful every time

"Greater challenge" is my words and my opinion of the comparitive challenges, not Silverleaf's.

re: Blinding Blast + Sweat + Tears

The worst I've had was Sweat + Tears and that was bad enough.

I've seen on the Handelabra Stream one game where they managed to dig themselves out of that hole and win, but it was brutal.

That was the worst part of trying to unlock Mad Bomber Blade in the app. You had to take down Blood, Sweat, and Tears, all in one round. Having all three out at one time is extremely brutal, and invariable Truth would come out once all four were present and I'd lined up just enough Lightspeed Barrage/Savage Mana/OmniCannon damage to take them all out.

I'd heard a strategy was to get them all under savage mana to avoid having to fight them all at once.

That's what I wound up doing. I had Wraith and Visionary both keeping an eye on Dawn's deck to make sure That Card didn't come and blow everything for me.

That Card is a big jerk, too.

We had two games in a row where the cards played by Dawn in her first two turns were both copies of That Card. Now that came as a pleasantly reassuring surprise :D. Well, when I say "two games in a row", I mean two games versus Dawn - there were a bunch of other games played in between them against other villains and yes, I did make sure I shuffled the cards like I do every game ;).

The Sweat/Tears/Blinding Blast game meant it was impossible for us to do anything except use base powers (can't remember which heroes we had so dunno how effective that would've been. Also the environment, wherever it was, could've been somewhere with potential to help us out. But that really was a total wipe of a game. Makes winning that much better because then it's revenge for the horrible games :D.

The only way to really win against that combo is to have a power that allows people to draw or play cards, enabling their use before the mandatory discard. That's how the Handelabra guys pulled it off. I just don't see anyone winning any other way unless the environment takes pity. Or I guess slowly eroding Tears' health with power-based damage. Harsh. I am not sure if I would quit if that was the game's start but it would be very tempting.

The other way is to have 5 or more damage in base powers to get rid of Tears the old fashion way. Which works until Dawn follows up with Return with the Dawn. Then you’re up a creek.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. Also hoping Truth isn't out or doesn't come out before you can finish her.

Yeah, I think she played Truth on one of the few turns that followed as well. Still, better to be wiped in a couple of rounds than have it drag on for ages ;).

That's what makes Dawn one of my least favourite decks to play against, you can be rendered ineffective with a couple of bad draws (not just That Card, but also the damage reduction citizen in combination with the "Make every other citizen immune"... and yes, I'm avoiding their names in case there is some kind of summoning effect triggered by speaking them...)

Truth.

Last night my game against Spite dragged. Scholar was virtually immune to damage and remained "highest." Medico kept healing where necessary. I couldn't get out enough damage to do much against Spite, and Spite couldn't do much damage to my heroes. Also the environment was a jerk until Spite killed it.

I've found that my games with Spite that are enjoyable directly relate to when the drug that punishes you for using powers comes out. Once that drug comes out, the game pretty much becomes wait until he flips. This is especially true if he also has out the drug that gives him DR.

Yep that's what happened with me. He was pretty close to flipping (four drugs out) and I had less than optimal hands for dealing with the situation.

I'm going to give it another go with a few changes to hopefully bypass what bothered me about last night's attempt.

A few changes…like having Chrono-Ranger pump him full of neurotoxin when That Drug comes into play? Works beautifully!