Analyzing Chrono-ranger

You can find Complete Noob's guide to Chrono-Ranger using the link below. I have begun this thread to avoid thread necromancy.
 https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/complete-noobs-guide-to-chrono-ranger-3705
I began some debate in

https://greaterthangames.com/forum/topic/killer-combos

when I off-handedly mentioned that Chrono-ranger is the weakest deck in the game. Obviously, there is always going to be someone every deck appeals to, so I take contrary opinions with a grain of salt. This does, however, create an opportunity to point out analysis techniques for evaluating relative deck strengths. Do not take this thread as a direct attack on you and your thoughts. I am showing how to objectively analyze decks. The methods here will serve you in other games.
Objective analysis requires putting favortism and prejudice aside. It can be very difficult to do so.

For example, I recently discussed a "who would win" fight between a DC hero and a Marvel hero (both have recent movies, are wealthy, rely on devices and inventions, are human and not true super-heroes, so you can guess who it was about), and jumped out immediately with an answer he would not like. The other person asked why since it was so obvious that I was wrong. So I told him that in the end, one of those heroes could not hurt the other or do anything but dodge. He then said, "But in this situation, the DC hero is smart so would have preparations." My response was, "The Marvel hero is also very smart, and could prepare at least equally as well with just as wide a variety of traps, decoys, and gadgets, and demonstrates mid-combat weapon improvisation to counter anything he does not predict." The DC fan's analysis considered only what would happen if the DC character had forewarning, and ignored that this foundation was prejudicial since the Marvel character could have the forewarning instead, especially considering the DC fan forgot the sensor systems inherent in Marvel hero's gear could detect most of the gadgets the DC hero could place.

The gaming equivalent is that players ignore the support their character received during the game where a deck excelled, and focus all the responsibility on their favorite character, instead of on the character that kept their favorite alive. (A particularly common mistake when analyzing Unity, since too often other Heroes' equipment gets trashed for Unity's bots, giving the illusion Unity is powerful, when in reality Unity weakened the other Heroes at the table to achieve that strength. We saw that two weeks back on the Handelabra video when AZ saw a module sac'ed for a wimpy bot... and AZ never recovered from the setback. All hail the mighty and powerful Unity...) The real danger in this conversation is in relying on Legacy to protect C-R from himself. Yes, Legacy can divert damage away to minimlize the impact of Hunter and Hunted, but that is unfair in a comparison like this. If you are to compare C-R with his favorite supporting deck against another deck, that comparison deck must also be considered with its favorite supporting deck. To avoid that highly complex conversation, the vast majority of this analysis will force Chrono-ranger to stand on its own with no supporting decks. All decks have weaknesses that can be overcome with a selection of other decks, so that Legacy's can overcome C-R's weakness is no more a consideration than Super Scientific Tachyon playing Turret Mode Bunker's cards off the bottom of his deck.

Chrono-ranger's Deck Build
Chrono-ranger's Innate Power does small damage to one target.  His deck has 6 equipment cards (all add damage Powers), and six Ongoing, Bounty cards. He has 3 Hunter and Hunted (HaH), three Ranger's Mark (RM), 4 Displaced Armory (DA), 4 Sudden Courage, and several other One-shots. The deck has 40 cards.
1.0   Basics
In general, all decks in ddeck games have a 20% chance of coming out weak and a 20% chance of coming out strong, with the rest of the starting draws somewhere in the middle. Some card choices can affect those probabilities. Wraith's Impromptu Invention (II) , for instance, significantly impacts a weak start, if it comes early. Few characters have cards that impact a weak deck start.
Superficially, SC, DA, and Just Doin' My Job (JDMJ) help with weak starts, but I find each of them too situational.
DA fails because unlike Wraith, Chrono-ranger cannot use two powers per turn easily, and has no equipment that serves any purpose than providing a Power. Once the one desired Equipment card is in play, this card clogs your hand unless you face equipment destruction. Useful to get started, but once used, it has no re-use value. With Wraith, once she has Razor Ordnance in play, she can still search for her Belt, MTC, MC, and either IE, SB, or TK. II has a lot more staying power before it acts as a clog, and even then it removes itself by drawing and playing an alternative card, so it isn't really a clog at all.
SC fails when you have HaH in play. HaH makes C-R vulnerable, so more bounties is often contra-indicated. SC clogs the hand because in that situation it cannot replace itself.
JDMJ Does have longer term use, but it is basically a "skip my turn and hope I get something better." Too often, there is little better to draw. Besides unuseful equipment and unwanted Bounties, C-R only has 9 different types of cards including JDMJ. JDMJ fails later, because in the long run, few of C-R's cards are useful any longer. You are hoping for Terrible Techstrike, but that is only 3 per deck. But the worst aspect of JDMJ is that it does not increase the team's card count, only C-R's. C-R may get to draw 5 cards, but it costs 5 cards so the team as a whole is not advantaged. JDMJ is net -1 card for the team. Trust Fund is net +1, Aquatic Correspondence +2, Fleet of Foot net +2 to +4, and so on. JDMG is one of the worst card drawing cards in the game.
In the mid-game, Heroes have generally put a few cards out and are now operating in a mode where they are usually only looking for one or two specific Ongoing or Equipment cards, and are typically using One-Shots. Legacy looking for his Ring, for instance, now that he has Fortitude and IP out, as an obvious example. AZ with Transducer and Isothermic. C-R's mid-game is weak. The baseline damage on most of his Equipment based powers is 1, while many other characters will have a 3 damage power in play, putting the onus on Bounty count to deal damage. If C-R was fortunate, he has HaH out, and a couple of bounties; however, this is sending C-R to the graveyard, and against many villains, very quickly. I am not going to make that entire argument in this paragraph. HaH and multi-villain-target environments need separate discussions, and we'll do that later.
In the late game, if C-R survived to it, he has the potential to deal wicked damage. With Masadah or Crossbow, he does 2xBounties damage (potentially 18 with no support) to one target, and that can be impressive. But that build still suffer's HaH's feedback, so he may not do it long. There are few others that can deal wicked damage every Turn like that, so when it comes out it does impress. It is, however, nearly impossible to arrange. It takes 8 unique cards in play, which is a rare event. Few villains are still in play by that time.
1.1    Hunter and Hunted
Much is made of HaH. Others have pointed out its benefits.  Combined with CB, it deals 2x(1+Bounties), and with TM, it deals 2xBounties irreducible. Few have noted it comes with significant weaknesses.
HaH makes C-R vulnerable to two types of damage -- All Hero Target damage (AHD) and Lowest HP Hero Damage (LHD). A few villains do not make great use of AHD, but many do -- Infinitor's manifestations, Matriarch, her domains and her birds, Chairman's thugs, and so on. Enviroment will often go after LHD. Once HaH has made C-R into the LHD target, he dies faster than any other deck. I don't want to Straw-man, since there are many situational arguments about this, but the obvious response is "Put Legacy in to redirect his damage". You can say that about any deck. Every deck has weaknesses another deck can cover, so the argument that one deck can support his weakness is not unique. We also do not want to get into the situation where every time we play one deck, we must play one complementary deck. The severity and commonality of a weakness, as well as the commonality of overcoming it must be considered. Very few villains and environments do not do AHD and LHD, so this is a common problem which must not be trivialized.
1.2   Bounties
I'd love to examine them all, but it would make a wall of text into a cliffside. Bounties being single target is universally expensive in play phases used. The Bounty mechanic demands that to gain some small advantage against one target, it takes a play phase. To switch it to another target takes at least another phase -- play or power. (Note how Sky-skraper shuffles her Links around far more efficiently.)
By Any Means isn't bad, but is weaker than similar commensurate +1 damage boots, in that it affects only one target. Legacy's Galvanize and In Pres are far more powerful in their flexibility. TtE can either increase all damage by one target, or decrease all damage dealt by a Villain. The Ultimate Target is even weaker, affecting CR alone.
With HaH in play, all other bounties are contra-indicated in most situations. Bounties, the core of his strength, become a weakness when the reward for the bounty is far less than the price you pay for playing it. Why play Dead or Alive, when you are likely to take at least 2 extra damage per round from it and heal only 1? No Executions with HaH is simply suicide for its lack of reward.
Kill on Sight should never be played on a Villain character, which cannot be destroyed. There are plenty of card drawing cards in other decks. C-R has only one of these, where others have 3-4 cards that permit three or more card draws. It must be played, the target must be destroyed, and then another card must be used to fish it back out. It is complex and phase consuming. And let's not forget that if C-R needs card drawing, it is because he is not powered up, and can't kill the target the bounty is on, leaving that to someone that got a luckier starting hand. Either he needs it and can't kill the target to get the effect, or he can kill the target and so doesn't need the extra cards.
And here is the real killer... when you cannot play HaH due to the suicidal consequences, all of C-R's one-shots that deal 1 damage die on the vine. He must use them against the target with UT and BAM in order to get the base damage to 3. If the threat is from a different target, these do piddling damage which can often be reduced to nothing. All of those wonderful cards that might act to boost his damage need HaH in play in order to deal significant damage... at the cost of taking significant damage with no healing or redirection worth mentioning in the deck.
1.3   Equipment
Jim's Hat... one copy. But why include even one? C-R does not draw extra cards, except in rare instances (and in one of those it is draw and play), so the hat does not offer a significant result. Expatriate has exactly the same problem. These decks can play extra cards per turn, but cannot put extra cards in their own hand. It is a pointless capacity. Tachyon shows us a more efficient deck that makes use of playing extra cards, because she also draws extra cards to play. Sky-scraper is the opposite -- a deck where she draws far more than she can play.
Temporal Grenade (TG)... again, why? Play a card and use a Power and it leaves play in order to destroy an ongoing or environment, while dealing three targets 1 damage each. In the first few turns, that is good, but in the mid-game when decks have multiple cards in play, it's far weaker than others. Omnitron-X can deal 2 and destroy one environment every turn for one power phase without losing the card. Wraith in the mid-game can destroy an Ongoing or Environment with a play, then use a cornucopia of powers. TG should go back to hand, not trash. It is not an unreasonable card when it uses play and power to deal 3x1 and destroy an Ongoing, so let it go back to hand.
IMO, The Masadah is C-R's best weapon. It allows him to do Bounties in irreducable damage without feedback damage, which can cut past the highest damage reduction Voss can stuff in our faces. But there is only one copy in the deck, and though backed up by 4 deck searching cards, it is still only made available with 5 out of 40 cards. Other characters that need a piece of equipment in order to be effective have 4 of that card and 4 deck searchers.
Neuro-toxin Dart Thrower is potentially effective, but again only one copy. That forces C-R to make a choice. C-R will pull 1 Displaced Armory on average in the first 3 turns. C-R will be forced to choose one weapon or his hat, and then wait 8 more turns for another. There is far too much vulnerability to a bad shuffle putting his equipment and search cards in the lower half of his deck. Don't laugh at the improbability. If it can happen it will happen. The fewer cards in the deck that do something, the greater likelihood they will be out of reach. I ripped thorugh half his deck once, and never got any of the cards listed in this paragraph. All 8 were in the bottom 20. It is only a 1% chance, but that means it happens 1 game in 100. Care to guess the odds none of Wraith's equipment and deck searching is in the top 5 cards? Wraith's equvalent does 1+2 to any target on the board with -1 damage dealt requiring 2 Equipment cards. Without HAH, NTDT is 1+1+1 taking one equipment and two bounties, and only to a single target until the bounties are moved, while Wraith can switch targets at any time.

2.0    Villain
Villains matter. Playing against Iron Legacy or Progeny with decks that have zero Ongoing destruction is just wasting your time. Decks often need to be selected for their non-damage capacities, or even for supporting decks that have the desired capacities. With virtually no environment or ongoing destruction and extremely limited support for other characters, Chrono-ranger winds up filling only the damage dealer role. This puts him in competition with Ra, Knyfe, and Mr. Fixer.
2.1 Single Target Villain Decks
Most villains have some villain targets in the deck, but a few have one or very few -- Iron Legacy, Progeny, Kismet, Plague Rat for instance. These villains are the best for C-R. His bounties stay in play unless destroyed by Ongoing destruction, negating wasted turns hunting for and replaying them. The problem is that these decks tend to deal AHD and LHD more than others, making HaH problematic due to suicide.
2.2 Weak Villain Target Decks
Some villains have lots of targets, but their HP are low -- Voss' Minions, Matriarch's birds, Infinitor's Manifestations. Bounties here are difficult to use. They do not have staying power, so C-R finds himself replaying a single Bounty repeatedly, or having to go after just the Villain and leaving the yardtrash to other decks. The obvious weakness here is that C-R has absolutely no All Villain Target damage capacity. Most damage dealing decks can repeatedly hit 3 or more targets, but the most C-R can sustain a multi-turn attack against is 2 without a supporting deck. Voss will be mentioned again...
2.3 Strong Villain Target Decks
Apostate and Akash'bhuta and prime examples of decks with high HP targets. these decks tend to get several targets out that stay out over turns. C-R has problems here, too. He may have the opportunity to place Bounties on these targets, but functionally, there are so many that they overwhelm his capacity to pull them out of his trash. These decks are dealt with by All Villain Target damage, more than single target damage. In this situation, there is only one thing C-R can do -- The Masadah and HaH, but these decks also tend to do ADH and LHD, so C-R will not have the staying power needed for the long haul.
2.4 Invulnerable and Damage Reducing Villains
Villains like Ambuscade and Citizen Dawn can turn invulnerable. When villains go invulnerable, they tend to do LHD and AHD, so HaH is again contra-indicated in many of these instances. Because his bounties aim for villain character cards, his effect on other targets is much more limited and BAM and TUT effects go wasted.
Voss, Progeny, Iron Legacy, and Akash'bhuta are different stories. They can get strong damage reduction going. The Masadah cuts through that, and since it can get to 8 damage without HaH, can be strong if the fight goes long. the problem is that getting enough bounties out without HaH to deal the 5 damage Wraith can deal in Turn 1 makes C-R a highly suspicious choice.
The one time I faced IL and won, it was over in 4 turns. I gave C-R a shot, since I had enough Ongoing destruction in other decks (Wraith, Visionary, Fanatic, Legacy, and C-R). C-R, as he always does for me, came out slow. Ranger's Mark and Bounty Board clogged the hand from the start. Turn 1 got an EotP, followed by DA and The Masadah, but no Bounties for it. JDMJ for 5. EotP and JDMJ for 5. Finally, Turn 4 got a SC and his first bounty. Net damage dealt after damage reduction... 6. Fanatic threw 16. Wraith threw 20. Wraith, with a first turn RO and MTC, and by third turn SB and Belt just out drew C-R. It shouldn't be surprising. I drew three first turn II's once. Jim cannot eve beat that draw.
2.5  Funky Villains
Dreamer is not a bad villain for him, since Jim doesn't do collateral, but the constantly changing targets causes C-R to suffer with re-playing the same cards for dismal effect. Plague Rat asks, "How about an Infection chaser for that shot of HaH, oh Hatted One?" "Well, that's grand of you, Stinky! Don't mind if i do!"  "Deal yourself 1+ Bounty (for damage dealt) + Bounty (for damage taken) every round, Tenderfoot." Yeah, contra-indicated doesn't even touch that one.
2.6 Villains Actually Good for Chrono-ranger
The following are decks Jim has the time to build against and won't strongly attack his weak points -- Omnitron (drones are weak), Voss (The Masadah to bypass minion DR), Spite, Infinitor. That is not a long list. Jim can participate in many fights if others do the heavy lifting non-damage tasks.
3.0 Conclusions
All decks can come out strong, including C-R. C-R can, by Turn 4, have the CB, HaH, BAM and TUT and be dealing the 5+5 to one target combo. But that is at a cost of +2 damage per hit on C-R. Wraith can have RO, UB, SB, and MTC out in Turn 2, dealing 5+3 to any target, and taking -1 damage, or replace SB with TK for (5+3)/3/3. I am sorry, but Wraith does that combo a lot better and faster, has far more options for further growth, and doesn't commit suicide in the process.

Any deck can come out strong, show a powerful combo, and feel like the best deck ever. To say "C-R can too" is only stating the obvious, and since that is an argument that can be made for any deck, is not a unique benefit. What is not obvious is how often his combo can and should come into play, and how well he can rebuild it when the Villain thrashes it. I simply do not see an advantage to playing C-R over Wraith. Jim is slower, less reliable, too restricted in his utility, and his weaknesses are too easily exploited forcing him to put the single combo to pasture and forcing him into a far less effective mode of play. The one thing C-R can do well, irreducible damage, is situational and not generally useful.

C-R is the one deck that I rate an outright F. Ironic that it shipped with the only deck I rate A+.

[edit: removed reference to a future DoA discussion that already happened.]

It seems you need to try to play Chrono as himself, and not as another hero. Like all heroes, play him to his strength, and he will shine. Play him as someone else, and you lose his advantages. Comparing his cards to other's is futile - the only thing that counts is how his cards play together.

Chrono is especially good at damaging the villain (or big minions like starships), not minions, and doesn't need help for it . His ideal modus operandi is to put bonus damage bounty on the big guy, lots of bounties on minions, get HH out, and keep firing on him, playing two cards (each producing damage) a turn thanks to the Hat, then use the most apropriate power. He probably won't manage to have all of this out, but he only needs bounties to keep hurting the main guy turn after turn.

That's what the Hat is for : allowing you to play two cards a turn, because most of his cards do damage - and with the good bounties / HH out, it gives him three shots of high damage to the main target a turn. It's not very hard to get him up to 10+ damage in a turn. He often will go far higher.

Also, the Hat is very useful at getting back Ultimate Target when fighting minions oriented villains (like Akash). Or putting more bounties out to fuel his damage/ability to draw cards (with card draw bounties on targets that others may dispose of). Or to play HH just when you need it, before a damaging card.

Not many heroes are able to give themselves lots of damage dealt bonuses AND deliver 3 shots a turn, turn after turn.

Just Doing My Job : you wonder why there is the Hat ?  With some help from your friends, get H cards to play - and deal damage now. Hat the gained cards next rounds. These two cards work together. If friends won't help, too bad - damage anyway.

Yes he is quite bad, most of the time, at handling minions - unless he has the good equipment card with enough bounties out (hello, Hat !). But it is not his job. He is here for the leader.

I know you won't be convinced - you've made your opinion, and your article just tries to prove it. Mine is that Chrono is a big, big damage dealer, very effective when played to his strength, taking advantage of everything in his deck. I'd suggest you look for "play by forums" games with Chrono and take a look at what others do with him.

By the way - you can play Unity without ever destroying anyone else's equipment. And it doesn't make her weaker. She has everything she needs in her deck. This is, in my opinion, the only hero I would think of as nearly overpowered.

As a conclusion - I've seen posts like yours (though shorter), trying to demonstrate how a given hero is weaker than the others for almost any hero in the game. Anecdote : last time someone suggested Unity was weak on BGG, someone was wondering if she was overpowered on this here forum. All heroes are weak when not understood by their player. And most take time, and lots of experimentations, to be understood.

A couple points. 

Plague rat is one the most fun fights for good ol' CR. You're right, HaH is suicide in that fight. Instead as usual you pull your 2 damage bounties and go to town. The fedora is great for getting lots of Plinks off, as is the compounded bow. Advanced mode and plague locus actually incentivize getting infected. With this setup alone, with a good draw possible by round 2, you can deal 5 damage on every one shot and use compounded bow twice. That's 30 damage round 2. He can repeat it over and over again, and the only cost is 3 damage from infection.

I rarely play HaH. I will if I think bounties are likely to move around a bit, or its near the end of the game. Otherwise, it is usually discard fodder for just do in my job. Instead I look for ways to get 4 cards out. Jim's hat, the Compounded bow, the ultimate target, and by any means. These are the only cards I will use search cards for 9/10 times. They produce reliable, constant damage. I will usually get at least 2 power uses each round, a really powerful idea when he is usually dealing 3 and 3 damage each time. 

His neurotoxin dart thrower is exactly as strong as stun bolt and here's why. They have exactly the same text. To deal 3 damage to one target with it, one combo needs 2 cards and the other 3. But, to deal 3 damage twice one combo only needs 3 cards the other needs 4. They are situationally more powerful than one another, but in the grand scheme of things they equal out. They are also both powers that are eclipsed by others inside their respective decks and so rarely see play.

I don't feel like commenting on every point in your post, but I think you are looking for too much for one deck and so are missing the strength's of this particular one. He shines when he is able to get his combo out on one villain and go to town. He can help other things die, but his focus should always be to hit the main villain as many times as he can.

Chrono Ranger's strength in damage is volume of pings, and putting out his damage bounties to gain +2 and out of turn powers bolsters that.

With 3 cards in play, Ultimate Target, Compound Bow, and By any means Ranger is dealing one target 3x2 (+any one shot pings) and 3x2 again when that target deals damage.

That's how Chrono does his damage.

Displaced Armory is valuable because it allows Ranger to pull the exact weapon he needs.  It isn't Impromptu Invention, but it has a ping on it, which for Chrono is big.

Chrono is a single target, self boosted, high instance of small damage hero.

As for support, no hero plays any game without a team.  That's the nature of the game.

Take Tachyon+Legacy, it turns Tachyon into a brutal damage dealer.

There are any number of heroes that can protect Ranger from damage when he has Hunter and Hunted.  Often I will play it if There is no card in play that will hurt him at the time, and for the amount of damage you can deal with it, the increase to damage taken is often well worth it.

Also, while Chrono excells at the single atrget self boosted multiple instances o small damage style, he does have versatility to fit other situations.

The big strength of Chrono to me is his deck mechanics.  He has so many search and recovery cards that shrink his deck, making him a more stable deck than most.  It is a really low percentage of games where you can't get the cards you need or want.

On the topic of no heroes in a vacuum, in the other thread you said legacy and CR aren't a combo because it is the same combo legacy has with everyone. I disagree. CR does so many attacks, the damage buff is likely to add almost a third more damage to the team.

Yeah, I'd put Chrono + Legacy up with KNYFE, Tachyon and AZ + Chrono.  So many instances of damage.

In comparison to other characters CR damage output is far better than most since he has ways to increase his damage. I realized that Fanataic don't do to well against anything with damage Reduction after playing her on the VG a lot. Her base power is uselss against armored villains, without the use of buffs. 

Legacy is great for support, but he only has one card that damages many targets, and he's very slow, not many ways to draw cards, and nothing to play more. But he is ideal to have to make others better. 

I admit, he isn't the BEST character, but he is by far not the worst. 

Agreed. I've seen Chrono-Ranger bring down boss villains almost singlehandedly, and I don't think I've ever seen him completely inneffective in the hands of a knowledgable player. He is an absolute beast when you play his deck as his deck and don't try to make it into someone else's.

(N.B.: I personally rarely play HaH and still get by just fine. Legacy is by no means neccesary to making Chrono-Ranger viable.)

I can only think of one time Jim has done nothing but draw all game. I was fighting advanced Voss with my starting hand being Danny boy, 2 ranger's marks and a bounty board. Without bounties I was doing nothing. But that is probably a worst case first draw, and literally any other cards would have accelerated him to relevancy

I've had some bad games with Jim, but I can't think of any heroes I haven't hit a bum draw or two on. I agree that I don't often play HaH, but I like that the option is there. I've had some pretty spactuclarly fun games, with that out. Both in the winning and the losing. Its also sometimes fun to make the sacrifice play. Drop a bunch of bounties, play HaH, and go out guns blazin'. I may drop, but I probably leave the villain in one heck of a bad way, too.

I like to use Darkwatch Fixer to take out HaH before the villain turn makes it safer and gets some extra juice out of it. Even better if it can synchronize it with grease gun a turn or two, Then again DW Fixer is my go to guy to fix unwanted plays and combos really well with Setback and PW Fanatic.

Not to mention Sky-Scraper and DW Fixer.

One of my favorite teams is Expat/Sky-Scraper/DW Fixer

Micro-Assembler+Links+Salvage Yard

It is amazing what that team can do.  They just rip the faces of of Villains.

Sky-Scraper is actually our unofficial 4th member of the Dark Watch, just because she works so insanely well with Fixer and Expat.

Yet again, someone confuses "I don't enjoy playing this hero" and "this is a bad hero ".

I don't find CR all that fun because I don't know his deck well enough, but there's no way I'd call him bad. He can be incredibly effective.

Snd for the record, I rarely destroy other heroes' equipment with Unity, and she does absolutely fine with me.

Yeah, forgot I wanted to comment on that too: Pylon + Workbench generally gets Unity all the cards out she wants. I generally only blow up another hero's stuff if we'll get a net benefit out of it (Staff of RA to get extra heals or Compulsion Canister recycling, for example).

I will admit that I did not read your entire analysis in depth.  That said, I found a few flaws, which may be affecting how you play him.

> Jim's Hat... one copy. But why include even one? C-R does not draw extra cards, except in rare instances (and in one of those it is draw and play), so the hat does not offer a significant result.

CR has 10 cards that draw extra cards.  (4x Eye on the Prize, 4x Just Doing My Job, 1x Dead or Alive and 1x Kill on Sight.  That's a quarter of his deck.

> [Chrono-Ranger] has no equipment that serves any purpose than providing a Power

This is related to the previous quote, but you seem to have missed that Jim's Hat is an equiptment, and thus searchable with Displaced Armory.  Later on you acknowledge that DA can search for the Hat, but in your earlier analysis of the Hat and of DA, you ignored it.

It's also worth noting that deck searching effects thin your deck, making all remaining cards slightly more probable.  The effect is usually pretty negligble, but CR has enough deck searching effects that it probably as a measurable effect on.

Finally, while you are right that it's important to seperate a hero's capabilities from their support, a hero's ability to maximize their support is important as well.  Imagine 3 heroes, A, B & S.  A and S have a 'value' of 2 each, while B has a value of 1.  But A and S working together have a value of 4, while B and S working together have a value of 5.  Which is a better hero, A or B?  While you can't count on support, and a hero should be able to stand on their own, you can't discount support either.

Arcanist Lupus makes some good points about support. Me and my primary team-mate for Sentinels had a simialr discussion-argument recently. I've been giving a lot of heroes I didn't enjoy prior a chance due to the app opening my eyes a bit on some. This includes Mr. Fixer, who I'm still not in love with, but have found can be devestatigly effective with the right support.

My teammates point was that heroes ought to be judged on themselves, while I argued that it was okay to need some support. He doesn't like the idea that a hero can provide a bad experience to someone who doesn't know the game, and may not be informed that the right teammate may be warranted to make that hero the best experience. This makes some sense to me, but unless you degsign each game completely, you are always gonna have the chance of bringing a knife to a gun fight, so to speak. I've randomed into Jim against Advanced Voss, or Naturalist against Ermine, or Sentinels against Iron Legacy/Plague Rat, each of those being fairly miserable for their own reasons.

For the Sentinels vs. Plague Rat, put the first infection on Dr. Medico and get him Hypocratic Oath ASAP.  Then instead of hitting yourself, you get to heal your team!

It helps, for sure! That said, the 2-3 Irreducable to everyone at the end of his turns tends to swamp the Sentinels pretty quick, in my experience. I shoulda mentioned that we nearly always do advanced mode, save for La Capitan, and newly released villains. That makes a difference in a couple of my examples. >.>

Can't play him if he continually comes out poorly.

EotP draws and plays, making the Hat irrelevant so drop that to 6. DoA only draws 1, and is often contra-indicated due to HaH as mentioned, so drop to 5. JDMJ relies on other players discarding in order to stuff Jim's hand, which in a friendly game will happen, but it's still net -1 for the team. I have found that when he does reach the mid-game, almost everything he could play, he doesn't want to play. While your point has some validity, it's only superficial analysis since all you've done is count the cards that say, "Draw a card" on them. Compare that to Tachyon with research grant in play. Not only does she have great card drawing one-shots, with this in play she draws 2 per round to support her HUD Goggles potentially every round. The counter to your 10/40 statement is that C-R can only use the goggles 1/4 rounds, but Tachyon can theoretically use her version 4x as often. 25% effect is not powerful… it's the difference between Back-fist Strike doing 1 damage instead of 4 damage.

You quoted that I said the Hat has no usable purpose. This quote is internally consistent with my argument. It is only suspect when quote-mined.

Not for anywhere near everyone. I mentioned Improvised Invention. AZ's Onboard Module Installation. Ra's Summon Staff. Search+Draw+Play is not uncommon. A Draw+play card is not a clog in the hand, beause it replaces itself when not usable. RM and SC would not be clogs if they were designed like the above.

You mean like Legacy (with IP), Visionary (TtE), in support of Absolute Zero? Sort of like with IT, NPCU, FA, and Thermal Shockwave? Sort of how AZ deals 3 targets 1+1+1+1+1=5 damage each, then twists the Fire feedback to 15+1+1+1+1=19 Cold to self-heal? Though we're ignoring that he could instead take 18 Fire to deal 22 more single-target Cold? Seriously, I'd love a lesson on making powerful combos from a master! I have no clue how to do that. /sarcasm=off. Remember that when I was accused of focusing too much on damage in :killer combos", I posted damage reduction and Healing combos to demonstrate that other people often have a tendency to draw false conclusions and accuse me of "incorrect" thinking, instead of facing the argument I actually make. C-R says, "Pull the trigger or hand over the gun."

If people want to get serious on the subject of supporting decks, go ahead, but the commonality of decks that can overcome a weakness is more important than the existence of decks that can overcome a weakness. Who else can let C-R put HaH out and survive, besides Legacy?

The reasons I didn't start the Support Deck argument was pretty basic. Straw-man accusations. It leads to arguments about which supporting deck I should have chosen instead. And second was that the original post is a wall of text already, so I was concerned I was slamming up on the character count limits most forums have on posts.

Please don't be Ener. Please don't be Ener.

Continues to pray quietly

I would just like to throw into the conversation that for attempting to objectively analyze a deck, the majority of the post relates his deck to other heroes.  Not only that, but multiple "better" heroes to boot.  His extra play mechanic is likened to Tachyon, his search mechanic is likened to Wraith, his damage boost mechanic is likened to Legacy, etc.  Instead of focusin on the combos specific to CRs deck, the analysis is instead focused on how parts of that deck compare with other decks.  This doesn't seem all that objective.  Sure, I'll grant make a few comparisons to get a point accross.  But this isn't that.  This is using "better" decks to point out flaws in a deck, and as soon as the term better is thrown around without a solid definition of what better is, we dive right back into the realm of subjectivity.

Now, I'm no super player, and I don't have the deck-building, strategic-card-game-playing background as I'm assuming a lot of players on this forum (I'm typically a tabletop/sRPG gamer, with the exception of a brief stint into MTG), but just to echo what the other posters have said, each deck has its own time to shine.  If I know that I need to hit the primary villain target as hard and fast as I can, CR is one of the best options in my book.  As it has been discussed before, even against a villain target other than his nemesis, CR can get to 20 or so points of damage per turn, by turn two, without using HH or being boosted from the outside.  Not only that, but his "inflexible" damage boosting means that I know my allies are going to be hitting harder against the target I need them to hit harder against.  Instead of inflexible, its pinpoint shooting.

This topic, I know, will never come to a resolution with both sides agreeing.  There are just some points that neither side is willing to change their view on.  I will grant that, in comparison to other decks that allow extra card plays, with the exception of Expatriette, he seems to have limited card draws.  But for what his deck is supposed to do, his card draws are plenty, most of them deal damage while also getting a card draw, and are in the deck for a second purpose.  Compared to the three combined decks of Tachyon, Legacy, and Wraith, yes, he is vastly weaker.  But that wouldn't be a very objective, nor a very fair, conclusion to draw.

How about this - if you don't like a deck, don't play it? There are plenty of heroes to choose from.

No need to keep banging on about how "bad" you think the deck is. Just stop using it, and your problem is solved!

Chrono is based around his bounties.  10 cards pull them from his deck.

You want card draw, pull kill on sight, then recycle it with his 6 cards that pull bounties from the trash.

16 cards of his deck are based on using and reusing Bounties.  That's 40% of his deck.

With kill on sight you fuel your hand and hat.

With The Whole Gang you have a reverse Final Dive.

With No Executions you have a very powrful situational card.

With The Ultimate Target you gain extra powers and bonus damage.

With By any Means you gain damage, and so does your team.

Bounty Board is a phenomenal way to fuel your hat.  Use you on destruct bounties, then pull them back out and reuse them.

Bounty Board and Kill on sight are enough to fuel Jim's Hat for an entire game, there's no value to having cards in your hand at the end of the game if you could have played them.

Who else can let C-R put HaH out and survive, besides Legacy?

The Naturalist, Tachyon, Mr. Fixer, Haka, Wraith, The Sentinels, Sky-Scraper, The Scholar, Fanatic, Unity, Vis+Ra, Setback.

Is that enough?  We can add Bloogo if you want.

There's also plenty of rounds you can pay attention and find out you aren't likely to get hit to play it, or just play it and understand that you can hit them more times than they can hit you, and burn them down faster.

With Grand Warlord Voss and Chrono I have wiped a Forced Deployment of 5 minions including a Guard with an Ultimate Target and other bounties, Hunter and Hunted and Danny-Boy.  Not one of the minions even acted.

That's with no outside support.  No other deck can do that.  So yeah, if they had dealt damage Chrono was screwed.  But they didn't, because he killed them all first.

The strength of Hunter and Hunted is the win condition of almost all of the villains.

Chrono Ranger doesn't need to live long if the villain lives even shorter.  When you hit the point where you can pull that off that's when you play H&H.  Recognizing that point in the match is the key to using it well.

Editted;: I deleted my old post. It wasn't constructive, and it was an over reaction. I am going to stop posting here however, to prevent me from doing it again

I was going to try an engage in a sensible debate, and hopefully I still can, because I honestly love Chrono-Ranger and how he plays, despite the fact I don't use many of his cards. Hope you forgive some ramblings, I tend to be long winded.

First a side note about tone, using phrases like "I am showing how to objectively analyze decks." is slightly hostile, as it assumes that the reader cannot objectively analyze for themselves. It probably wasn't your intention, but small things like this really change how you are perceived on the internet and make debates much harder. I admit that phrase almost got me to stop reading before you even began.

Secondly, about the above quotes involving Jim's Hat. While it may seem internally consistent to someone who is writing the piece, stating something not true (such as all Jim's equipments give only an additional damage power) then later saying that there is an equipment that is worthless that does not give a power does not look consisten to an outsider, it looks as though the writer either forgot or did not know about the fact when they began writing. I used to get called to task on things like that all the time, so I understand, but it is an important thing to remeber that the audience will have an imperfect understanding of your intended flow.

On to some counterpoints:

1) My first counter is perhaps the biggest, and the most glaring lack in your argument. There are 24 cards in CR's deck that have the effect "deal 1 target 1 projectile damage". The only cards that do not have this effect are Hunter and Hunted, his equipment cards, and his bounties. This means 60% of his deck is a damaging one-shot. This is what makes the Hat the first card I go for unless I absolutely need a weapon. With Jim's hat you are essentially capable of using his base power 3 times a turn, more if you get  Eye on the Prize. This is also why increasing CR's damage is such a huge boost. He has so many possible instances of damage that the effect is multiplied many times over. As an example: Displaced Armory, put Jim's Hat into play, deal 1 damage, Eye on the Prize, deal 1 damage, draw and play Terrible teck strike, deal 2 damage followed by 1 damage, use base power for one damage. That's playing 4 cards and dealing 5 damage in one turn with no outside assistance. Add in a +1 or 2 from the proper bounties and things quickly spiral. These riders also mean that CR pretty much never has a dead card in his hand, as he can always just play it for damage.

2) You specifically called out Temporal Grenades as not being a terribly great card, and I'd like to counter. Compare it to Tachyon's Blinding Speed. Blinding speed destroys exactly one ongoing or environment target as well, and is a burst which means it is a possible damage further down the line. That is not guarenteed in any way though, just possible. Also, it cannot work if Tachyon cannot play cards because it is a one-shot and if it is played accidentally it is wasted. Grenades is guarenteed automatic damage, and it can sit on the field until you want to use it, accidental plays don't matter. Also Displaced Armory allows you to pull from the trash, meaning it is possible to bring back the grenades if you need them again. They are also the only equipment that CR has multiple copies of, only two copies but still.

3) Just doing My Job. I understand where it is possible to see this card as a net loss for the team, however, I disagree for two points. First, as mentioned above, this card has the rider "Deal 1 target 1 projectile damage". Even if you or your team use it for nothing else, that is helpful. Secondly, it is incredibly rare for someone to not have a card they are willing to discard. Fanatic's End of Days when you are already set up, AZ's sub-zero atmosphere (I never really use that card) Ra's flesh of the Sun God or Wrathful Gaze, Almost any of Tachyon's burst cards. The benefit of drawing does go entirely to CR, but he gets a lot of damage mileage out of every card he plays so in the goal of dropping the villain it can be a very benficial tradeoff. It is also completely optional, if the heroes don't want to lose any of the cards, they don't have to.

4) Hunter and Hunted. You seem a little obsessive about this card in CR's deck, and I get it becuase it is his big, final move card. First of all, yes, it is a suicide run. I would never keep this card out for more than 2 turns unless I needed to, and I'm willing to die in the next few rounds. That or the team is curb-stomping the villain. However, there is a reason it is a suicide run card, the benefit of playing it is enormous. Let's put it in the ideal, ultimate set up that will never happen. 6 bounties out, the two damage buffs on the main villain, Compound bow (easily Jim's most powerful weapon), the Hat. Play HaH all your damage is increased by +6, this means against the main target you hit at a +8. PLay any one-shot, deal 9 damage to the villain, then use the Bow for another 18 damage. That's 27 damage, no penalty. Same as Fanatic using Wrathful Retribution when she is at 3 hp, minus the card draw. Villain hits you, you take an additional six damage, but if you planned for it you are likely still standing, Ultimate target allows you to use a power, Bow for 18 damage. Total damage is now 45, this is a near fully charged omnicannon, or a big savage mana powered up with a Haka of battle. Your only cost so far was +6 damage to yourself. Next turn, play two cards, deal 18 damage, use bow, 18 damage. That's an additional 36 damage for a grand total of 81 damage in 2 rounds. Now I understand, this is a set-up that will not happen, many things could go wrong and mess this up, but HaH is suicide because it is a big damage buff to CR, a guy who gets the absolute most mileage from damage buffs. He only needs for it to last 1 round to make the most of it. However, the truth about HaH is the same truth about any heroes Final Move, big damage card. It is completely unneccessary for CR to get the job done, he doesn't need it to be effective.

I think that sums up my major points.

Hey Phantaskippy, why do you keep saying they "fuel" Jim's Hat? Destroying a Bounty is an optional part of the Hat, you never need to…unless I'm reading it wrong or there was an errata I missed

I believe he means that they put cards in hand that can make use of the extra plays from the hat (referencing earlier discussion re: CR’s lack of draw).

You know, I had lost my serenity and was writing a new rebutal to the OP. But you are right.

Saved by the Mouseguard. Again.

While I love a good arguement, this is just a friendly reminder to keep it civil before things get out of hand.

The only thing that should get out of hand are the numerous equipment and bounties Chrono-Ranger plays!

I miss my cowboy kitten.

Jim takes off his hat for a moment of silence to mourn our dearly departed.

Alas, poor Wuffles! I knew him, Horatio: a kitteh of infinite jest, of most excellent fluffy: he hath borne a ball of yarn a thousand times. Where be your catnip now? Your squeeky mice? Your mewling? Your flashes of the rips, that were wont to set the litter tray on a roar?

quote=Chaosmancer]First a side note about tone, using phrases like "I am showing how to objectively analyze decks." is slightly hostile, as it assumes that the reader cannot objectively analyze for themselves.[/quote]

Inherent in the beast. Go back and read this thread from the start. How many responders actually make an attempt at anaysis at all, much less objective? I could reply to everyone, but I don't have to, since many are not making counter arguments. I said it straight up… every deck has fans, and I tend to ignore them. All it takes tomake a fan is for a deck to come out strong the first time (20% probability, typically). Fan is short for fanatic. A Fan is, inherently, non-objective.

It probably wasn't your intention, but small things like this really change how you are perceived on the internet and make debates much harder.

Or it is intentional, and maybe you don't understand what it can achieve. It had the desired result.

Secondly, about the above quotes involving Jim's Hat.

Even if I conceded the point about the Hat, what effect would it have on the argument? Literally not on iota of difference. You are making a mountain out of a molehill, by demanding that I be hyper-accurate in every statement, demanding citation for every single exception to any generalization. No one can live up to the standard you are trying to set. At best, it's a nit-picking claim against me about an oversight. At worst, it's an attempt to undermine the argument by claiming the poster can make mistakes, so the entire argument must be a mistake. Who on earth can live up to that standard? Certainly not me. I am human, and thus inherently fallible. It does not mean I am inherently always wrong, if I am wrong just a single time. Beware the standards you set for others, for you are setting them for yourself. But in the end, it's really about this: you want benefit of the doubt, but will not give it. I could have, quite literally, thrashed one of your own sentences in your response in exactly the same way. You are welcome to re-read yourself and find it. I, however, gave benefit of the doubt the way you should have, and won't do to you what you choose to do to others.

1. My first counter is perhaps the biggest, and the most glaring lack in your argument. There are 24 cards in CR's deck that have the effect "deal 1 target 1 projectile damage". The only cards that do not have this effect are Hunter and Hunted, his equipment cards, and his bounties. This means 60% of his deck is a damaging one-shot.

Your argument is correct, however, I did actually mention it.

It can help, but only if you've got the Bounties in the right place to overcome any damage resistance, or have the support to throw HaH out. You want another comparison? Tempest. Jim has 24 cards for 1 damage for a total 24 in one-shot damage. With just the first target damage, Tempest has 3 Chain Lightning and 2 Ball Lightning at 4 each, and 3 Lightning Slash for 5 each, for a total of 35 damage from one-shots before any second or third targets are considered. And Gene-bound Shackles equates nearly identically to 2 +1 Bounties. No one has as many cards that can be used as one-shot damage as Jim, but unless there is a lot of + damage out there, he isn't getting as much out of it as others do. They are piddling damage, not powerful damage.

This is what makes the Hat the first card I go for unless I absolutely need a weapon. With Jim's hat you are essentially capable of using his base power 3 times a turn, more if you get  Eye on the Prize.

No, he isn't. Read on.

This is also why increasing CR's damage is such a huge boost. He has so many possible instances of damage that the effect is multiplied many times over.

As an example: Displaced Armory, put Jim's Hat into play, deal 1 damage, Eye on the Prize, deal 1 damage, draw and play Terrible teck strike, deal 2 damage followed by 1 damage, use base power for one damage.

But then they're gone. My point on the Hat is that Jim can't draw more cards to sustain the higher play rate. Yes, you can dump several cards in one turn. No, you cannot do it every turn, because he runs out of bullets fast, and reloads slow. Tachyon also plays a lot of cards, and can make good use of damage boosting, but she maintains that high card output turn after turn. Jim cannot.

2. You specifically called out Temporal Grenades as not being a terribly great card, and I'd like to counter. Compare it to Tachyon's Blinding Speed. Blinding speed destroys exactly one ongoing or environment target as well, and is a burst which means it is a possible damage further down the line. That is not guarenteed in any way though, just possible. Also, it cannot work if Tachyon cannot play cards because it is a one-shot and if it is played accidentally it is wasted.

Three copies in the deck, and the fastest card draw in the game means that Tachyon has it available to play far more often. With Research Grant in play, Tachyon is drawing 3 cards per Turn, meaning she runs her deck 3x in the space C-R takes to run 1x, so Tachyon will get it 4.5x more often than C-R. We can run the numbers on Tachyon's comparitive one-shot card draw. Think that will help or hurt that 4.5x value. I predict help…

Accidental draws are rare events, and not at all possible in most villain and environment combinations. Since everyone has similar accidental draw card issues (Limiteds, no Targets, etc.) it is not a serious pre-game influence on deck selection.

Also Displaced Armory allows you to pull from the trash, meaning it is possible to bring back the grenades if you need them again.

Even counting those, Tachyon still draws 9 to 6. But now you're not using the DA's for the Hat or anything else.

this card has the rider "Deal 1 target 1 projectile damage". … but he gets a lot of damage mileage out of every card he plays

Some mileage. Not "a lot". Only a lot with Legacy support, HaH in play, or a target-light situation.

4. Hunter and Hunted. You seem a little obsessive about this card in CR's deck,

That would be because it was cited in killer combos as part of his best combos. Others were trying to convince me CB+HaH+BAm+TUT were the reason to play him. 5+5 damage per round. You choose a different strategy, so I'll face yours now.

I get it becuase it is his big, final move card.

No, it can't be. He can only get it up to big damage with a lot of card plays. I was never able to get The Masadah up above 9 damage in a round with it.

However, there is a reason it is a suicide run card, the benefit of playing it is enormous. Let's put it in the ideal, ultimate set up that will never happen. 6 bounties out, the two damage buffs on the main villain, Compound bow (easily Jim's most powerful weapon), the Hat. Play HaH all your damage is increased by +6, this means against the main target you hit at a +8. PLay any one-shot, deal 9 damage to the villain, then use the Bow for another 18 damage. That's 27 damage, no penalty. Same as Fanatic using Wrathful Retribution when she is at 3 hp, minus the card draw.

Not quite. 1: Jim can not choose his target… he must be set up first wiht bounties on the correct target. 2: Fanatic can have cards in play, so i choose her Breastplate. Jim may die from his suicide run, but Fanatic comes back with 10 more after making herself weak in her attempt. 3; Jim faces 3x effect of damage reduction, Fanatic faces 1x.  4; Jim has 8 cards in play and played a one-shot, while I used only 1 in play and a one-shot. Do I get to put 7 more into play now? Be careful of assymetric comparisons, which was my entire point about objective analysis in the first place. Jim is allowed to set up to full, but Fanatic, Haka, and Bunker only get to consider a single card each. That is not in any way, shape or form objective. For instance, in a game this long, by the time Jim has that many Bounty cards out, Haka had at least one Dominion out at some point. How many extra card draws did he get, did they turn into Haka of Battle fodder, and if so, how much extra damage did that deal for him along the way? Haka of Battle turns every discarded card into one of C-R's 1 damage one-shots, when attacking a target without Bounties.

Villain hits you

Huge assumption. Since C-R cannot control his HP, he must have the correct HP status to take the attack.

Total damage is now 45, this is a near fully charged omnicannon, or a big savage mana powered up with a Haka of battle.

Not a fan of Omnicannon. Takes too long to load. Savage mana, though, regularly can dish 30. Easy to load. We dropped a 34 on the Matriarch yesterday. Followed by 24 from Setback. Back-to-back on Turn 4. Setback was just being Setback with 12 tokens. The Savage mana situation is only reproducible on the Matriarch, so that's not a fair comparison… Haka normally takes longer to get there. Like C-R, he can only get his big hit out on particular villains in particular situations.

I think that sums up my major points.

No, you created an extremely hypothetical situation in which you were somehow able to get 8 cards to stay in play, somehow wind up with the correct HP to force the Villain to attack C-R instead of another hero target, and conveniently not get hit by any environment or new villain draws. It is an ideal situation, and extraordinarily difficult to arrange. It is impossible against many villains due to speed of game (ie dead by Turn 6), improbable against most others, and impossible against some (Dreamer, unflipped Voss). Since it has all the bounties stacked on the Villain, it means the CB is doing nothing to help with other targets, which is a big issue when facing high HP target villain decks (Akash'bhuta, Apostate, Ennead). The other "final" moves are far less difficult to arrange. Fanatic need only let her HP drop, or drop them with Martyr. Setback need only let his token count rise. Coordinating to let Savage Mana eat targets is trivial. Tachyon just burns through her deck.

You will find that I already cited this combo (with CB replaced with Masadah, since I identify his irreducible attack as his best) in "killer combos". I am well aware of its existence. But the commonality of the cards in the deck and ease of getting them into play is part of the analysis. I had Embolden on Argent Adept yesterday. Wonderful with his self-healer Rhythm card out, since he was triggering that twice off the extra power use, so embolden was healing him. But I would not use that as evidence that Fanatic is stunningly amazing because of it… Embolden is rare in her deck and contra-indicated in many situations. Same thing here. Anything is possible, but anything is not probable, and if it is not probable, you do not rely on it… or cite it as a fundamental strength.

So going back to the beginning - what's the point of this thread, exactly? What are you hoping to achieve here? You think Chrono is bad. Other people don't. Now what? Do you want to remove the deck from existence, or get it errataed, or redesigned from scratch, or do you just desperately want other people to agree with you? (Hint - that doesn't seem to be happening.) What would make you happy at this point?

I guess you don't play Chrono anymore. Why not just carry on not playing him? Why the "OMG this hero that is so popular is REALLY TERRIBLE, stop liking things I don't like!" thread?

I genuinely don't get what you're trying to achieve.

Your words are contradictory
To the evidence some of us see
We play him and then,
He’s used again and again
And yet frequently he’s MVP.

I’m not saying that you are wrong
But it’s hard to deny other songs
If he’s as bad as you say
Then we wouldn’t feel this way
The full truth would emerge before long.

My point could be made in reverse
To argue that CR is worse
But laws of large numbers state
That answers will congregate
With frequency rather than terse

And it’s easy to play someone bad
With less potential then they had
It’s hard to be misunderstood
And accidentally be good
To be better with a deck that is sad.


For the perfect mashed potato there are two key steps, simple yet effective changes that you can make to your usual recipe and which will unlock a step change in flavour and texture experience.

The first is to follow a more refined cooking method. Potatoes are full of starch, which reacts differently depending on the way it is heated. Rapid boiling can cause the starches to become sticky, resulting in a gloopy and lumpy final texture. By heating the potato from cold to a gentle simmer, then removing them and rapidly cooling down in cold water, you will break up the starch strands. You can then return the potato to a full boil until cooked through and the resultant texture will be much smoother and fluffier.

The second tip will help you to lock in an incredible amount of lost flavour and is even more simple to follow. Simply reserve the washed peeled skins and add to a saucepan of warm milk. Allow the skins to infuse the milk on a low heat for as long as possible and use the drained potato flavoured milk in your finished dish in place of plain milk. As most of the flavour is in the skin of the potato this will transform your humble spuds from side dish to centrepiece!

If you want to go one step further you can also spruce up further with a sprinkling of lime zest, an ideal flavour pairing with potato.

Pohtaytoh.jpg1600×1064 193 KB

So, you all are genuinely arguing and upset with someone who’s big proof that he was objective is that he definitively knew Iron Man would beat Batman, right? I’m just saying, that’s all you really need to know about this and it’s some funny stuff. [Please keep the language clean. -Pydro]

No, they are actually upset because of something else that predates your joining the forums. It's not worth going into, just seems to be something we cannot shake off, like a stubborn stain or lingering bad smell.

Then something something feeding trolls.

Yeah, I’ve been trying to figure out how to say that nicely. Oh well, here’s this:

1. [color=green][b] Kreistor:  You don't like Chronoranger. Got it. Don't play him or learn from those who do - your call.   [/b][/color]
2. [color=green][b] Kreistor:  You brought up your thoughts, folks explained why they disagreed, and you are unwilling to accept that. Got it.  [/b][/color]
3. [color=green][b] Everyone : You don't agree on Chrono's capabilities. Got it. At this point, let's accept that we have different opinions and move on. [/b][/color]
4. [color=green][b] Kreistor: Accusing others of being hostile while being hostile yourself has gotten our attention. This is a friendly and civil environment and we want to keep it that way. We are glad to have you, but want to ensure threads like this don't bring down the environment. As you might have noticed, the community has developed a variety of tactics to distract threads that are becoming caustic. The fact they're employing them here is a bad sign. Let's drop this and move on to other topics. [/b][/color]
5. [color=green] My sincerest thanks to those who have kept things civil and tried to help keep this thread under control. It's greatly appreciated![/color]

There is literally no one I would rather have on my team to fight Spite than Chrono-Ranger. The combination of “Neuro-Toxin Dart Thrower” and “‘the Ultimate Target’” never stops being hilarious to me. Every time Spite hurts someone, Chrono-Ranger makes it harder for him to hurt anyone. As long as you get out “‘By Any Means’” as well, you can even penetrate his armor. Not even Legacy with a “Lead from the Front” and “Next Evolution” set to toxic damage is as useful.

Seriously, it never stops being funny.