Speculation about the new villain promos

Assuming I did my math correctly, we'll be getting two new promos in the double-sized villain pack.  Who will they be?

I think I'm going to predict La Capitan and Citizen Dawn.

La Capitan because the Sentinels are getting new promos, so it seems fitting, and Citizen Dawn because she seems like she has a lot of story left.

REALLY hoping for some Apostate love. Though given all my speculation around him, thats being saved for next year.

Can't wait for Scholar's story. Really going to be interesting.

Remember, they have been going with the trend by fixing inherent mechanical problems, for example: BB, Gloomie, and Omni were too easy, and Spite was just unfun because of the waiting.

By that metric, I'd say that the most likely promos are Ambuscade and Miss Information, both of which are showing up in VotM, so they seem unlikely.

Kismet would be a fantastic redo.  I know she's a contest winning submission, but that deck has crazy potential for remakes.

I actually think Apostate is perfect timing for a remake.  Because whoever he is, he isn't a good soldier, he's not following orders.  His role is a side plot.

However, I am interested in what Math is involved in thei having 2 villain promos.

There are 10 cards that were not previously large sized. That is the 4 villains from Wrath, Wager Master, Gloom Spite, Skin Gloomy, and the upcoming mini-expansion, which leaves 2 more.

Okay, yeah I was thinking the promo cards from Villains, this makes sense.

I guess it would also mean we aren't likely to have any villain promos in the Villains of the multiverse 7.

La Capitan, Plague Rat, Citizens Anvil and Hammer and Miss Information are getting decks in vengeance, and while it is true that the villains that got reworked had room for it, they were also very important parts of the story line, with Cosmitron being the link to all the other Omnitrons, Baron Blade being the main Villain character of the game, and Spite + Gloomy being the reason the Dark Watch form, and they are clearly a big deal.

Apostate totally fits that bill, as does Akash'bhuta.

There's also a possibility one of the WCos villains was designed with a promo version already in mind.  I could easily see Deadline or Wager Master's decks going in very different directions.

Actaully Wager Master is a pretty good bet.

What I'd really like to see is Dreamer's deck turned into a Dark Visionary villain deck.  One where Venessa grows a few years older but has been taken over by Visionary's dark passenger, and has much better control over her projections.  One where you aren't trying to keep her alive.

I'd forgotten that La Capitan and Hammer and Anvil were in VotM.

Also, the VotM promos are the Sentinels, Scholar, Naturalist, and Chrono-Ranger.

I agree that Apostate has more story to tell.  He was actually my third choice behind La Capitan and Dawn (who now look less likely).  I'm less sure about Akash'bhuta.  She seems to more like a force than a character.

I also think an alternate Dreamer would be cool, but on the other hand poor Vannessa's life sucks enough already - if she could get away with not having something else terrible happen to her, that would make me very happy.

This has been confirmed?

Yes.
https://greaterthangames.com/content/oversized-cards-and-promos-and-panels

Because of my internet, I won't be able to see the pictures for another 7 hours or so. Still, awesome.

But aren’t you several hours ahead, just look at them now.

I'm at work, which has internet restrictions. I can read the news, but I can't see the pictures. 

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE

What I'd really like to see is Dreamer's deck turned into a Dark Visionary villain deck.  One where Venessa grows a few years older but has been taken over by Visionary's dark passenger, and has much better control over her projections.  One where you aren't trying to keep her alive.

I could totally go with that.

That would be pretty sweet, actually. A Dark Visionary deck. She would still have to be called "The Dreamer," for deck synchronicity reasons, but I think that could be an easy enough workaround.

Man, if a Dark Visionary promo for the Dreamer isn't a thing already in Christopher's head then it really ought to be!

That Dark Passenger has to be important for the storyline.  It was mentioned in Visionary's Bio, and I doubt that is just for the promo card.  Visionary from Tactics says she finally cleansed it, after it took over in some nasty battle.

That sounds like maybe it won't pull a switdheroo, but I can always dream.

The dark passenger was already important. It was another version of vanessa long that had made very different choices

An inter-dimensional hitchhiker, another version of Vanessa who had made very, very different choices, now occupies a corner of her psyche

My guess would be Voss and Citizen Dawn.  They seem to be the long standing villains and I imagine that while they used the same tools for their plots they went about it a different way.  

Whoa, I missed the Gloomweaver stuff, where is that?

I keep saying Voss, and then I forget about him.

Yes to Voss.

Although, the word we have is that he will return, but we might not recognize him.

could be interesting.

Here is my theory: Voss was really building an army to combat the big bad end game enemy, however, NightMist took him down too soon. Tempest realizes the army is the only way to stop the big baddy, and becomes the new Grand Warlord.

Check out the picture of Dark Visionary from the Challenges doc. They are in a graveyard. Context clues!

Oh, and then theres this…

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gtgames/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-shattered-timelines/posts/339361

Less than a year after using her considerable psychic abilities to wrench herself backwards through time, Vanessa Long could feel the impact of her actions. She constantly ached, fought against daily migraines, and her mind was scattered - focusing on this time and reality grew more difficult with each passing day. Worst of all, the dark version of herself which had "hitched a ride" on her jaunt through time fed off her pain. 

All it took was the right amount of stress. In battle against the dreaded GloomWeaver, The Visionary wrapped herself in a telekinetic cocoon in order to avoid a swarm of arcane cultists, but when she did so, her fellow heroes heard a muffled scream from within the glowing purple energy barrier. It shattered with a burst of green energy, throwing cultists about like rag dolls. A pale, maniacally grinning Vanessa Long strode forth, waving a dismissive gesture at GloomWeaver, which banished him from this realm entirely.

"Hello, dearies," Visionary cooed. "Let's go save the Multiverse . . . "

As for Voss. I'll give him a 5% chance to have a promo in SotM just based on the story alone. He is gone and won't return in SotM after Nightmist banished him to another realm. That's the entire premise of the Thorathian rebelion we see in the WotC environment deck. Voss having a promo now just wouldn't make much sense story wise. Voss will be back, Christopher said as much, but it won't be until later in the Tactics storyline.

Doesn't mean someone else can't take over, maybe he has a child?

Whether this officially happens or not, this is one of my favorite theories I've seen on here.  Well done

I rather see Miss information get a new character card of some sort. Her deck is kinda dull to play againist. I think my friends and I have played it once and thats about it because it took forever to flip. I have a feeling that is going to be the case with Kaarga Warfang once we get around to playing her.

I do like the idea of one of the decks who's stuff isnt as fun getting a facelift. However I have this feeling it will not be anyone that is going to appear in Villians.... Unless this is a promo designed for Villians.

Just to throw it out there could it be a Matriarch promo that her deck is somehow her torn between being a hero and villian?

Also I am just going to throw it out there how will the Eenard ( I hope I spelled that right) work with them needing to be under that tomb card before coming out and we aren't suppose to know who is there.

At least Kaargra has an alternative win condition - you can beat her by getting enough favour, so you don't have to hang around forever waiting for her to flip to win.

The acid test - I only fight Miss Information if the other players really want to. I'm happy to fight Kaargra.

wait Silverleaf now I need an explination for Kaargra.

I was under the assumption you only win againist her if you get enough favor. Taking her to 0 hp does not mean you win. Just need to make sure because I am probably playing againist that deck with friends on friday and I am the one who is in charge of knowing this stuff.

Miss Information is the woman in the blue dress on the box for VotM. Since she is there I highly doubt she will get a promo for her standard villain card

There are several things that we know about Grand Warlord Voss.

1. He was the second son of the Thorathian ruling family.  Presumably, this means that there was a first son somewhere.

2. He returns to Dok'Thorath at the head of an army, and while he declares himself the new ruler after a coup, there is no (explicit) mention of the fate of his older brother (presumably the heir to the throne), the former Sovereign, or the rest of the ruling family.

3. At the time the Prime Wardens Visit, Dok'Thorath is in a state of open rebellion, with street fighting and numerous factions vying for power.  There is still no mention of a new Sovereign.

Put it all together, and it seems like it would be entirely possible that we could get a promo, not of Voss, but of someone else in the ruling family-in-exile.  Or we coudl see one of Voss's Lieutenants take power, or one of the admirals of the remnant fleet. It could be minion against minion, ship against ship, with Earth caught in the middle of a civil war.  After all, there are no cards in Voss's deck that actually mention his name, so theres no need to keep him around.  Or it coudl be that Voss has a son of his own that is coming to collect the tattered remains of the Thorathian Conquest Fleet.   

Basically, I think your idea is totally awesome.

You are correct.  In fact, it's theoretically possible to win without flipping her to her target side at all.

That said, my experience has been that she frequently flips to her target side, then you get enough favor to win, and then you have to kill her to flip her back in order to allow your victory.  So the game frequently ends when you kill Kaargra, even though you're technically winning because you have enough favor.

Because of the new errata for Personal Cloaking Device, I'm wondering how they'd do an Ambuscade promo. His alternate side would HAVE to be called "Invisible Stalker." Unless it's called something else, and his card text says just to flip when his cloaking device enters play.

Didn't stop fixer from having a promo.

They wouldn't. Thats how.

He is in VotM. Same thing for miss info. Why would they get standard promos AND be in VotM? It doesn't make much sense to me.

Blade has both.

But he was also a villain from the very beginning and there was layers of character change and development that followed his promos. His promos followed a progression and were released in a way that followed that.

Ambuscade and Miss Info are getting that development in VotM. Villains don't get promos jsut for promo sake. It would make no sense in this case.

True, they get promos to make them more interesting and harder, Ambuscade would fit that.

His inclusion in VotM makes the chances of it happening far less likely than I would have thought before the VotM announcment. Feel free to hit me with an "I told you so" if I am proven wrong later though

It's still a possibility.  Baron Blade has a Vengeance deck, his normal deck, and the promo.  

I don’t necessarily think it’s likely, I just don’t necessarily agree with some of the stated reasons for why not. So far, we have promos for Blade and Omnitron (both level 1), Gloomy (who should be), and Spite (who is not that interesting post flip). Seems like another very easy villain would get a ramp up in power.

But again, thats because it made sense in the story and Blades progression. 

An Ambuscade promo would make no sense right along side his VotM apperance. His VotM apperance is that progression.

Apostate, Akash, Ennead, even Kismet or Dawn would make far more sense. Villain Promos are used to further story progression, thats my contention. These villains have not had any to date.

I'm not saying Ambusacde is the most likely but moreso that I don't think any villain can be fully dismissed.   I would think it's more likely a villain that isn't in VotM as story wise, like you, it would just be odd.  

Apostate seems really likely to me.  As for the other, I'd love Akash but I would be more expecting Kismet

I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm wondering how they'd do it if it were to happen.

I think Abmsucade is unlikey as well. While it is true that Blade has a promo and a vengeance version, there was a lot of time between the releases. It doesn't make sense to me to see two versions of Ambuscade at the same time. I mean, it could still happen, I just don't think it will. That said, I'm sort of at a loss as to good candiadates. Akash could get one, as a sort of response to the Wardens. Kismet is another option.... aaaaand.... thats about it to my eyes.

It’s worth pointing out that we have had a case of a character and promo coming out at the same time.

We've also had a case of a promo coming out before the character, amirite?

We have had a case of character and promo, but I believe all of these cases were for heros not villans (and I could be wrong, because i don't know when the spite and gloomweaver promo released), so I would assume it unlikely

Both Setback and Captain Cosmic had a promo revealed before the actual character was released.  In the case of Setback you could acquire his promo before the deck was available.  Obviously with CC they were sent along with preorders. 

I don't think Villain promos are to "fix" flawed decks.

All of the villain promos that have come out are very important to the progression of the SotM story.

I would assume these ones will fill that void, not determined by whether the deck is popular.

We are at the crux of the great end battle, I could see any number or villains being important, Voss would make sense, as would Apostate, but any number of villains could take up with the bad guys, or be used to start the next phase.

There could also be some villains that are important to whatever story surrounds Villains.

I wouldn’t say fix as much as give experienced players a new challenge to play the weaker villains more, although the weaker versions are still needed.

However, I do agree that story is important, and just as that would include certain characters, it doesn’t exclude certain characters.

If we assume story reasons for promos and no doubling on promos we can make a list of likely canidates.

Vilains who already have promos

Blade

Omnitron

Gloom weaver

Spite

Villains whose story is already being advanced by Villains

Miss Information

Plague Rat

Ambuscade

La Capitan

Villains who are new enough a promo already seems unliley

Kaagra

Infinitor

Wager Master

Progeny

Deadline

This leaves us with

Akash'Bhuta

Kismet

Apostate

Voss

Dreamer

Dawn

Ennead

Chairman

Matriarch

Iron Legacy

Vengeful Five

Vengeful Five is highly unlikely, their place in the story is established and unlikely to evolve (after all they were briught together by Blade who is out of commision until Tactics due to the side effects of his boosting serum). Chairman is unlikely, the organization is crushed and he disappears until Tactics. Dreamer is unlikely, mostly because poor vanessa long is already suffered a lot and her place in the story would likely be a one off deal. Same with Iron Legacy, The Ennead and Matriarch. Iron Legacy was dealt with and should not return, The Ennead cause Horus Ra who then came back and beat them, seems little ground for a resurgence that would alter how they play and Matriarch probably won't get a promo because her change is to become a hero in Tactics.

This brings us to Akash'Bhuta, Kismet, Apostate, Voss, and  Dawn.

Voss would be awesome, coming back from the Realm of Discord to take Vengeance on Earth, but I feel that's going to be in Tactics because we've been told we won't recognize him and a promo doesn't change how a deck plays to that extreme, especially one as tight as Voss. (Tangent: Could Voss be the Mist taking people in Tactics, using them to build a new army before marching forth?)

Dawn would be good, but Hammer and Anvil appear in Villians so it's at best 50/50 in my mind.

Kismet could be, but I doubt it. She's a pain and a trickster, kind of like Joker. She keeps coming back but she doesn't change much overall.

So my money would go on Akash'Bhuta and Apostate. Akash we know changes by Tactics, those purple crystals everywhere and it's likely that started before Tactics. Also Akash'Bhuta can be a fun fight but I've never felt her flipping really meant anything and she is too easy in environments with little or no targets (fighting her in the Freedom Tower is almost boring). I think a promo to make her more active and a more devastating threat would be good. Apostate is almost the obvious one, we know there is a lot about his story that is unclear and needs to be revealed. A promo for him is almost a must to clear up what his deal actually is.

I'm guessing that we'll see an Akash'Bhuta promo.  Deadline did a LOT of damage, all of which could effect Akash, or bring her back.

Where do we see Akash'Bhuta in Tactics?  I haven't actually played Tactics (I know, shame on me), so I'm not familiar with all of the lore attached to it.

You see Akash in one of Bunkers cards

To be fair, Apostate is totally believable. We know so little about him and his backstory as is, that it's totally open for a promo to explain him a bit more.

Heh. Wouldn't it be funny if Akash was a villain turned hero due to Deadline's shenanigans. I'd play that deck. >.> <.<

Okay, ridiculousness aside, Kismet seems like a good choice other then her lack of presence in the ongoing story. Her deck could easily be tweaked big time via a new card, and provide some fun.

I agree that Voss seems unlikely, as there is no way to make him "unrecognizable" with that deck. It'd be neat to see more Apostate, and with some story furtherance. Him and his could easily end up working for the big bad, same as Omni.

What if the promo villain deck IS the returned/new/unrecognizable Voss...?

Yes, MrLeRobot, I think that a "Voss after his exile", coming back as some kind of "demon" , or with a new army of mystical creatures he built during exile, seem a good candidate for a new villain. Unless he already is the zombie body of Gloomweaver II :)

GOSH! I rushed to my SotM box to make the comparison… You might be right! Gloomweaver sort of live in the realm of discord, right? And it is actually where Voss is banished, right? So that's why Zombie Gloom's skin is redish…!? Although, he lost his rock-like strusture on his elbows, knees and shoulders…?

Never thought about that but it all really makes sense… Was that info revealed somewhere else?

The only problem with that theory is that Voss's deck would be the same, so the minions would still be minions and they would still be aliens unless Voss's cards had text that made that otherwise. I like the idea of Voss coming back all mystical though, that might be neat.

Ok, I just double checked and it's got to be it.

Vanilla Gloom has the following features: long pointy teeth, horns, claws and a long green tail. Add a big red skin (let's say Voss' skin) to cover that up and you get a big red zombie with long pointy teeth, horns, claws and a long green tail, or Skinwalker Gloomweaver. Now, Voss' kneepads are gone, but I was thinking that maybe those protruding rock thingies are some sort of exoskeleton. I can easily see Gloomweaver taking out Voss' entire skeleton (and thus his exoskeleton as well) just to get a bit comfy in there...

One thing for sure, if Zombie Gloom is really Voss, then Christopher was right: I didn't recognized him at all...!

Edit: But now that leaves the original Voss... dead!?! It is an unusual fate, even for a villain... Perhaps Voss and Gloom made a deal or something? Voss gives his skin to Gloomy and Gloomy gives him back... something else? An army of Discordian creatures could be neat...?

My bet for the villain mini-expansion: Skinless Voss!

Plot twist:

Nightmist sent Voss to Gloom on purpose. She knew Gloomy could use some flesh for his projects and she helped him out. She touched too much dark magic... And that's why she gets kicked out of the Dark Watch. BAM!

I don't really see it happening, but who knows...! ;)

Edit: Thinking about it... On the incap side of DW Nightmist, she almost seem to be discussing with Gloomy... In fact, on her active side, she seems to use some kind of blood/runic magic, as opposed to the multi-colored magic halo around her wrist on her vanilla character card. Thing is, these patterns are somewhat similar to the ones found on the whole body of Skinwalker Gloomy... If someone has the eldritch knowledge to perform a ritual such as summoning a demon lord into a flesh vessel, I'm pretty sure it could be Nightmist...

DAYUM. I so much love moments like that...!

Thank you, TheSoundOfTrees :)

When were we told that we wouldn't recognize Voss?  I'm trying to figure out if we were told that before or after the DW promos came out.  If it was before, then that puts a lot more weight behind the theory.

WAY after. This year, in fact. Check out the "special something for you all" thread.

Progeny's "Hour of Reckoning":

Progeny beating Legacy while Dark Visionnary and Nightmist are there, just watching... Ok, so Progeny is most definitely evil. It is hinted that Dark Visionnary is kinda evil too. Considering the last few points noted earlier, what if Dark Visionnary and Nighmist BOTH betrayed the heroes!? Dark Visionnary is known to be exorcised from her dark passenger at some point, but what about Nightmist? Maybe she played with too much eldritch magic... Perhaps we'll see Nightmist in Tactics, but on the villain side?

The title of the card would actually make a lot of sense looking at it that way, at least for me...

Not sure if it means anything after all. In fact, Zombie Gloomweaver is only sporting Voss' skin, so technically, Voss hasn't returned… completely…!!

I don't know… judging from the flavor text, she just can't reform because it is unsafe. Now, Dark Visionary may be evil at that point (odd, considering she is still a playable hero) but she doesn't seem like she is.

I mean, MAYBE, but I don't know… Then again, if that means she'll be playable in Tactics, then I guess I can survive…

Thanks.

Hm… Checking the thread, Christopher was promising that Voss would show up in Tactics.  Which makes Skinwalker Gloomy definately not what he was referring to.  Although, yes, Gloomy could be using his skin, and that's why he's so unrecognizable in Tactics.

I'm starting to like this theory a lot, but I think it means that Voss won't be getting a promo version in SotM.

Unless it's another Voss. Or the mini-villain expansion could be Voss' new form too, assuming he's not really dead, but just doesn't have skin anymore…

Maybe she can't reform because she used too much of her powers during a fight (against other heroes maybe?) wich consumed part of her mist body and now, if she tries to reform, she might not be complete and that would be dangerous for her…? Speculation, of course…

Thought Skinwalker was using Spite's corpse.

I was thinking of a new deck - a new villain, with its own deck, but with the background of being what Voss has become, not a simple promo card.

@MrLeRobot : It was a joke ! I don't think Gloomy has taken Voss's body, nor did I see any clue that it could be true. But, well, it seems like something that could happen in a super-hero comic book. I think I remember having read somewhere that it was Spite's body, but I may be wrong.

I think that your idea of Voss getting back from the Realm with a new villain deck would be even more comic-bookish - and far more interesting. Any way, the question of what happens with Voss, and later Nightmist, is one of the big unanswered misteries of SotM, with the origins of Dark Watch and the "rebirth" of Mr Fixer, in my opinion.

That's more than likely how it'd work, Agent of Gloom Spite has alternate text for how to resolve Lab raid after all.

Thought Skinwalker was using Spite's corpse.

You thought right. That and however many more corpses Spite can provide for the Weaver of Gloom.

So what if Voss ends up taking over Apostate's deck?

So likelihood of a new promo:  Phantaskippy's top 5.

1.  Apostate:  His deck works so well and his Character card is so easy to change up, and his storyline has to be a thing that continues.

2.  Voss:  I just can't imagine Wrath having two Thorathian decks not somehow leading to a revival of the army, plus with that engine the character card could go anywhere.

3.  Dreamer:  Would really work well.  We know she's still around, and the possibility that Visionary alters her own timeline substantially after the "Fixed Point" could lead to all kinds of fun.  As a minion heavy deck there could be all kinds of difference.

4.  Kismet:  Less for storyline and later importance, more off deck mechanics, her deck could be very different with a promo.

5.  Wager Master:  I thought it in playtesting and still do, this deck seems set up for a promo.  Or maybe I'm crazy.  I also don't see one coming with the last expansion.  I could see him ending up a servant of the big bad after finally being defeated.  It could be wierd.

I don't see Akash or Matriarch Happening, largely because their character cards are so heavily invested in the engine that makes them run.  There isn't a lot of room to redirect that engine to another purpose.

will we also get a small card version of these promos for the new villians in the oversized or will they only be in the oversized format for time being.