Lead By Example Question and Discussion

My normal activity of making heroes has for the moment slowed down, and I'm curious to hear other people's thoughts on a red zone ability.

The social quality list contains Lead By Example, which I am just now taking a really good look at.

Lead By Example: Make a basic action using [Quality]. Use your Max die. All other heroes who take the same basic action on their turn against the same target receive a Boost from your Mid+Min dice.

First, an interpretation qestion: When another hero uses that basic action, does the Mid+Min boost apply to their effect die, or is it just a bonus they can use anytime after?

Second: Has anyone else seen this ability in play? It looks potentially absurd, like most red zone abilities, but because of it's utility instead of raw power. The ability to Overcome, Attack, Defend, Boost, or Hinder using your max die using a social quality feels like something that could easily be used even if your allies don't play along and use basic actions. So yeah, looking for thoughts on this.

Given the wording, that the other heroes have to take the same basic action against the same target, would seem to suggest that the boost will be applied to that action.  It seems the most logical interpretation.

As for how absurd it is, that is a rather subjective opinion.  Can't really say how useful it would be overall, but I am sure that players of more subtle or support characters might choose it because it better fits their hero's concept than a more direct (and arguably powerful) ability.  One hero I could definitely see possessing such an ability would be Captain America, though I can't think of a specific incident that fits such an ability that he has had (though if you give me a few days, I am sure I can find something... maybe from the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon?).

If Captain America ever made an inspiring speech and led the other heroes in doing one thing as a group, then he's probably done this. While I definitely view Lead By Example as a utility ability, I crunched a few numbers to check something. It appears that for the majority of dice pools, taking a basic action boosted by Lead By Example is equivalent to or better than using your Max die for that action. Which is worth considering.

Seems fine compared to other Red abilities.  Lots of them let you use all three dice for a specific type of action, so using your Max only but having the freedom to choose any action type is more versatile but less powerful.  And any allies who want to take advantage of the Boost have to use a basic action, which means they aren't using their own abilities (and most likely they also have access to the powerful Red ones), not even their Principles.  Plus there's a limit to how useful it is to do exactly the same thing--at some point that enemy will go down or that challenge will be overcome.

Unless they're cheesing it with combos--a whole team with Lead By Example could get nuts fast, and it would also be great with Mutable Form or Inspiring Totem--I don't see a problem.

Oh geez, a team of heroes who all have Lead By Example and Inspiring Totem in the Red Zone? Something is getting anihilated by the power of Friendship and Teamwork once the scene hits the Red Zone.

Fun Add On: Crunched the numbers for a dice pool of d8,d8,d10: Average max die is 7, with an average boost of 2.44. If I adjust it down to d8,d8,d8: Average max die is 6, with an average boost of 2.34. That's an extra 2ish damage per ally (for Attack), or an extra 0.5 bonus or penalty per ally (for Boost or Hinder). 

A somewhat related question, but about the Inspiring Totem red ability:

What would you say this ability translates into, narrative-wise?

(When you use an ability action, you may also perform any one basic action using your Mid die on the same roll.)

I can see a lot of powers/qualities potentially giving you multitasking abilities, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how it should work as a 'social' feat...

I see it as a Social Quality Red Zone Ability because it's not strictly multitasking.

Banter? Oh yeah, you're doing your thing telling witty jokes. But that witty joke doesn't come on it's own; You set up an ally along with it, or use it to distract a foe at an oppurtune moment. Maybe it comes in alongside a knuckle sandwich for the punchline, or you bring up your guard when they strike before delivering the punchline.

Imposing? Your ally knows that the foe is paying attention to you, or you make a foe mess up on their next action. You can shrug off a punch from someone without as much presence, or maybe you just outright scare them in surrendering. All of that could happen just by doing things being imposing.

Insight? You can tell that someone isn't being forthright, or read their body language for an advantage. Or, you read the crowd of minions and just naturally discern a weak point in their formation for an ally to exploit. Body language can reveal an incoming attack, or just reveal their guard being lowered for an oppurtune strike.

Leadership? Your allies are waiting for encouragement, or your foes backing off from a shout of defiance. You kick down a locked door to clear the way forward, punching a minion to get them out of the way of your group, or put up your guard as they begin to open fire.

Persuasion? Call out to a foe who's wavering to further shake their commitment, or suggest a nearby cop help out your friend who's helping a cat out of a tree. A precisely worded offer could make someone's brain hurt to grasp, or maybe you convince the BBEG to give you just a moment to drop your weapons.

None of those are just multitasking. They are doing extra things, by being social.

It’s exceptionally strong when used as a boost on one who’s going to overcome or area attack…
5 players, one leads by example with d(6/8/10), expects to get a +2, maybe +3 boost to target…

And a +2, to everyone else’s boosts, which means most are going to get into the +2 range, maybe +3, as well… so everyone’s adding +2 to +4 instead of +1 to +3… and the overcome guy gets +8 to +12 on that overcome or hit the crowd ability attack…

Thank you, I will ponder this.
Maybe I was literally trying to shoehorn an extra “action” into the scene, when an extra effect from the same action would have done (I still think it should then be worded "treat you Mid die as … ", like some other abilities).
Or, maybe, am I just too un-socially stubborn myself?

However, I am still struggling with the concept of the extra action through being socially competent.
Getting an extra boost/hinder out of an action through boosting morale of frightening the villain seems fine, check.
But going strictly by the rule, I could theoretically use any ability I have, not even using any social quality at all - and then add any random extra basic action.

Let’s say, I attack the automated defense turret, using my “hit something very hard” ability - and then additionally attack it once more with a basic attack.
So… what is happening, narrative-wise? How is this dependant on my social quality?

That's up to the player to determine in the moment. You don't have to trigger it on every Ability action you take, and the GM always has the option of vetoing decisions.

Thank you for your help, and most certainly you have a point there.

... but my main concern wasn't that it might not work in each and every case, but how it would work *at all*. 

As in, how can I justify a generic extra action by having a certain social feat? 

Or as you put it, how can I actually do something extra by being social? How does that work?

I'll try to clarify my troubles a little: "Action"(i.e. a momentary activity with a physical effect) and "social feat" (i.e. an intrinsic quality) feels like two very very different things, and I can't seem to get these two together in a convincing way.

Let's split this in 2 strands:

Of course, a boost/hinder might always work in a psychological (or social, if you will) way, so that is the easy part as the two are not so different after all.

But I am still looking for a reasonable way to justify extra attack/defend/overcome actions (which tend to be of a rather more physical nature) by invoking a "social" background. I really am having a hard time trying to imagine how that would come to be.

I might simply be stuck on this, so any example would really help.

Look at it this way: Your also using a Power on that action.

As an example, I have a character called Salt-Steel. One of her notable attacks is Dangerous Explosion from the Higher Power power source. The attack itself? Throwing a sodium grenade into a group of foes and setting it off with her powers. How does she follow it up with Inspiring Totem(she has Insight as a qualifier)? Well, she could have used her Insight to pick out a foe for a smaller secondary detonation. Or, by watching the foes post detonation to read their behaviour, she readies herself to dodge instead of being as vulernable post ability usage. An overcome could be that the detonation also impacted the local environment in some way, once more through use of her Insight to connect the dots.

I think in some circumstances its slightly underwhelming, because it requires the taking of a basic action.

If the scene is in the red zone, what is better, using a red ability or using a basic action that has a plus 3 or 4 boost? Usually the red ability will accomplish more.

So it can't really help with making a big area attack stronger, and it requires a normal overcome check instead of a principle for players who want the boost. A boost of 3 or 4 might end up being better then taking the Max die, but you don't get the hero points.

If it’s a normal villain, you could be insulting or demoralizing them–remember, “damage” doesn’t necessarily mean physical damage. One of the examples of an attack in the rulebook is a taunt.

For other types of enemies, like machines, it’s a little tougher, because most enemies don’t have immunities. You can attack an automated turret with telepathy just fine, for instance. It could just be a follow-up with a quip–an extra panel where the turret slumps pathetically and collapses and the hero makes a snide comment.