Sentinel Comics Live: Episode 0 (Character Creation)

Link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240875952 (I'll update that to the YouTube link once that version goes up.)

We didn't get to see the booklets they were going off of, but we did learn a lot.  All four players used the "guided" method of character creation, which involved going through a sequence of randomized steps (with infinite rerolls), for players who don't know what they want.  There's also a "constructed" method, which lets you choose, and goes in a different order.  There are a lot of dependencies (a principle here determines some die sizes and ability selection options) that aren't easy to infer.

There are some weird things.  You get some seemingly-random sets of dice to roll on tables at various points, but you can reroll as much as you want, so I don't understand why everyone uses different dice.  There's also a weird lopsided bell curve thing going on--you usually roll two or three different dice and can choose the result corresponding to any one of them or the sum of any two of them, which means that very high results will be rare and medium-low results will be the most common.  A lot seems strange and arbitrary, and I don't understand why it's as fiddly as it is.  I really wish at least one of them had chosen the constructed method.

The second-to-last step, Retcon, also doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  You can increase your Red status die size (which grants you 2 hit points) or add a third Red ability, simple enough, those are just good things.  But you can also swap the die sizes of two powers or two qualities, or change a principle to a different principle, and it's unclear why you'd want to do that during your Retcon step instead of just rewinding the character creation process and making different choices to start off with.  They said in the chat that this lets you make changes that wouldn't normally be possible because of dependencies, but that seems like it'd be hard to keep track of.  Or you could add a d6 power or quality, which seems like a trap choice, since you want to be rolling d6's as rarely as possible.

Maximum health is based on your Red status die and your highest physical or mental quality, or another power or quality allowed by your archetype.  We know physical qualities are Agility, Speed, Strength, and Vitality, while mental qualities include Alertness, Conviction, and Creativity, and that's where Christopher stopped reading.  So those qualities are inherently slightly more valuable than others.  This also means that the health values in the starter kit don't seem to follow this version of the rules, assuming that pregens use the fixed HP values (+4) rather than the randomized ones (+1d8).  If they did roll, they uniformly rolled badly.

• Absolute Zero: 8 (base) + 10 (Red) + either 10 (Vitality, but it's a Power) or 8 (Creativity) + 4 (variable) = 30 or 32 (29 in the kit)
• Bunker: 8 (base) + 8 (Red) + 8 (I'm guessing Self-Discipline counts) + 4 (variable) = 28 (same as kit)
• Legacy: 8 (base) + 12 (Red) + probably 10 (Strength--it's a Power, but I don't see an obvious Quality) + 4 (variable) = 34 (32 in the kit)
• Tachyon: 8 (base) + 8 (Red) + either 10 (Speed, but it's a Power) or 8 (Self-Discipline) + 4 (variable) = 28 or 30 (27 in the kit)
• Unity: 8 (base) + 6 (Red) + 10 (Creativity) + 4 (variable) = 28 (26 in the kit)
• Wraith: 8 (base) + 6 (Red) + 8 (Agility, but it's a power; she has Fitness as a Quality, which I'm surprised is not on the list; no other quality seems appropriate) + 4 (variable) = 26 (same as kit)

I got the sense that the rerolls are subject to GM fiat, and Christopher was being very kind.

This system cares more your enjoyment than hard rules. But he did say only one reroll. To cut down on choice paralyzation. 

I am guessing that there are table form 1 to 20 with a list of possible choices. (just look at any D&D random (Item, gender, name, background) table and go form there). to get the most options, instead of rolling 1d20 you roll 2d10 (or whatever your current step tell you to roll). This is fine. Far to much work to retcon but it does tell me that they are ok with having more d10 and d12 than I thought.

The constructed method is just picking the item on the table that fits your idea. If you do not have an idea this can take some time. I already have a character in mind but my friends not as much. Rolling dice is what got Maggie to be a 7-foot tall goblin vampire magic user. Otherwise, she would have gotten a person who controls the internet. It was fun to see Adam make his cursed sword guy, all of that came form dice rolls.

My Issue with retcon it does punish people who don't have an idea already made before hand. But this may be to stop people mid maxing (an issue that Christopher doesn't seem worried about.). White wolf gives you bonus point to modify your sheet, this is similar. I think this step is something the GM should keep in mind while helping other make stuff. Player's last step and Gm's first.

Rolling a d6 is better than rolling a d4. it can also add skill if you make a high skilled character. Can give room to breathe. I normally make high skill people so I like this. Adding a red ability is not a good as it sounds, you get a cool move, but rarely would you so low for enough turns for it to matter. Have a Character who is good when things are green is important too. 

Hp is less of an issue for the premade characters, one can say they rolled a lower number.

The Table generation method just reminds me of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (WHFRP). You build your character off a load of careers as shown here but in a much more swingy way (d100 are the worst). So this way seems to be quite a nice less bonkers version of that. 

I am curious about how 'easy' it is to do the whole min-maxing thing in character creation. I am going to go with hard from what was shown it enforces at least a little bit of breadth on the characters. 

Also, this character creation is a little white-roomish for us (not those who were actually at the table/have actually done playtesting) seeing as all we know about character progression is what we got at the end of the starter kit. It could be difficult as sin to actually gain new powers in play but upgrading low dice sizes may be easier so that is why the d6 option is there. But again I can't make final decisions until I have devoured the actual core book. 

I, for one, would like the power to reach through a twitch stream and grab one of those character creation packets. 

The idea that the "Retcon" step punishes people for not having a clear idea of a concept and/or the rules from the get-go is based in a misinterpretation of the rules. Here is how it actually works:

You get two Principles during character creation: one from your Background, and one from your Archetype. Your Background and Archetype restrict the type of Principle you are able to choose.

Then, toward the end of character creation, you have the Retcon step. For you as the creator of the hero, you can do one of the following things:

• Gain an extra Red ability, as described in Step 5
• Swap any two dice within your powers
• Swap any two dice within your qualities
• Choose a different power or quality used in one of your abilities
• Increase your Red status die by one size (maximum <dice>d12</dice>)
• Add any <dice>d6</dice> power or quality from any category
• Change either of your principles to any other principle

Every single one of these options lets you do something that you would not otherwise be allowed to do during the previous steps of character creation. In the livestream, Adam chose to "Change either of your principles to any other principle". This allowed him to swap in a Principle not otherwise allowed by his Background or Archetype.

Does that make sense?

Sort of, but I don't think it will make complete sense until we see the full rules (or close to them).  I don't see why your choice of Principles should be limited by your Background or Archetype, for instance.  With few exceptions, Principles seem to be pretty well balanced against each other, and it's not like a game like D&D where allowing players to freely mix and match abilities results in min-maxing.  It seems like this system forces players to choose between flavor and power.

It's also unclear how this would translate to the Constructed method (which I think most of us forumites will favor), but then we know almost nothing about that at all.  It's hard for me to imagine how this would be balanced--ideally you wouldn't be able to tell whether a character was Generated or Constructed when all was said and done, or else one method is probably more "powerful" than the other.

Also, can you clarify whether you get just one reroll or infinite rerolls?  Christopher said both at various points.

The impression I get is that "flavor" is the entire name of the game. Any character can have enough power to get stuff done, especially since the system seems very heavily weighted towards letting people succeed the majority of the time even if it's with a plot twist. So it's more a question of creating characters that are thematically cohesive. You'll end up no matter what with a usable character; the process just helps you have one that holds together storywise.

Christopher gave off an attitude to me of not caring if a character was overpowered because if going around being a god-tier crazy powerhouse is the story everyone wants to tell, then that's what you should go for. Just as long as it's a cool, flavorful story.

Think about the Prime Wardens; they can basically flatten pretty much anything, so their "fall" wasn't because they were physically beaten, it was because they were morally beaten. They technically won everything handily… and still had a growth story to tell. It's kind of like that.

I think the guided will be fun for randomly creating a character. Great for coming up with new characters or if you did not have an idea to begin with. 

I think the restrictions are there to keep your character within the same theme. 

Yeah, I don't understand where "retcon hurts people who don't already have a clear idea of their character beforehand" came from since that seems to be the exact kind of person that mechanic is designed to help.

Also, ftr, those 2d10s might be percentile dice, which would mean the table has 100 options, not 20.

My big takeaway from that stream is the existance of categories for powers and qualities. We still don't know how strict the rules are for what powers/qualities can be which die sizes or used in which abilities, but that opens up a lot of new avenues. I'm hoping someone will make a list of known powers/qualities/principles/etc. that were mentioned in the stream and add it to the ones known from the starter kit. Maybe I'll do that if I get enough free time anytime soon.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm the sort of gamer that's always going to end up taking that extra d6 in the retcon stage, even if it's technically sub-optimal. While I'm sure we'd all like to be able to use our best dice all the time, the extra versatility represented in that d6 always appeals to me, even if we technically all have a d4 in any given skill.

It feels the way Marvel Heroic Roleplaying did. (Which makes sense since Cam was involved in both) I ran the Breakout adventure a couple of times at a con with folks picking from a big list of pregens. I don't remember the whole team, but I do recall once there was a team with Kitty Pryde and the Hulk on the team, and both characters contributed equally to the story.

SC seems very story focused, so it doesn't matter that Wraith and Fanatic operate on different power levels. Like if there's a giant robot attacking the city.(1)  Fanatic's action is "I swoop down from the sky and smite the giant robot with my flaming sword" and Wraith's is "from the shadows, I throw a knife at an important joint actuator" they're having just as much impact on the story.  

(1) As seen in Sentinel Comics Side-By-Side Issue #43 - "It's Hard to Be A Saint In Rook City" 

If that's the case, then there shouldn't even be a "you're just more powerful" option.  Force everyone to make a choice that fleshes out the flavor of their character.  Increasing your Red die size is boring.  Swapping the Power or Quality used by one of your abilities is almost always going to be a min/max move.  Adding a Red ability does add some flavor, but not a ton since you ideally won't be using them all that often.  If you want character creation choices to be driven by character concept, then none of those Retcon options further that goal.

It's true that Sentinels RPG allows even "weak" characters to contribute nearly as much as "strong" ones.  But that doesn't mean you won't have an easier time overcoming challenges--especially in published adventures not specifically designed with your character in mind--if you make certain choices over others.

Again, take Unity (I know her best since I'm playing her now).  She would absolutely be a more effective character if she had an active Yellow ability keyed off something bigger than a d6, or if her main gimmick was keyed to a d10 or d12 Power.  She would absolutely be easier to play if she had a Power that paired better with Principle of Levity and Banter.  I don't know what her Retcon choice was, but she clearly would have more successful outcomes had different choices been made.

I think that is part of the difference between players. Different players make different choices. The “best” choices are not always made in character creation. I believe that is part of the fun of character creation. 

As an old-school Champions player (a time when everyone had exactly Con 23 or 28), I know there are definately folks who can and will use the rules of the game to make "optimal" characters.  That's part of the fun of the game for them. And it's also fun for some folks to make sub-optimal characters because they like roleplaying the challenge of it. (I'd guess that Setback's "player" loves having all the stuff go wrong for him.)  In games where someone makes a character choice that they thought was cool but turned out to be a bummer, most GMs I know would allow players to rebuild their characters. Supposing that I was running a game with the F5+Unity from the Starter set, I'd let Unity's player rebuild the character if that was a problem for them. 

The best advice I could ever give regarding this? Not every game is going to be fun for everyone. If your player loves character optimization and mechanical fiddlyness, this one probably isn’t going to appeal very much. Similarly, something like Champions (with the 3+ hour character creation and the night- consuming combat rounds) wouldn’t appeal to me personally.

Not every game is meant for every person. Simple as that.

Yep I agreed. In my playgroup B, 2 love this system the other finds it too loose, it want rules to rein them in.

In my group A, some find this system has too many rules (Some are new players) and I have to make the game even less rule focused.

Yeah, I'm with Warlock on this.

The system seems to tilt on the axes that "effective" means "can contribute to the narrative in an interesting way" and "successful" means "you told a cool story". "Failure" and plot twists still contribute to the narrative.

It's a paradigm shift, and as much as it's my own inclinations to start from the questions you're asking, Mindwanderer (since I too am used to playing d20 and other crunch systems), I feel like if I try to switch to that shift then some of the design decisions and some of Christopher's blase attitude towards various concerns makes more sense.

(Basically "what happens if the player doesn't follow this particular social contract" becomes less of a concern when a player uninterested in such a social contract would probably not find this particular system fun to play anyway.)

Christopher also mentioned that, while you can end up with a character that's rolling 3d12 all the time, that character is only marginally more likely to succeed at stuff than the character rolling a d10 and 2d8s, so even if you make a very powerful character, the game balance isn't all that destroyed.

Plus, powerful characters often have to focus on one area of power, while the characters with more spread out power sets are far more prepared for when the GM throws something outside of the party's comfort zone at them. Which is a popular tactic among GMs in general.

I'm personally on board with an RPG that's open to whatever play style someone wants to approach it with.

Quick question. When did they say they are doing the next episode of this? Was it April 24th, or am I misremembering that one?

They postponed it after the initial announcement.  It's June 19th now.

Well, that makes me a little sad. I was really looking forward to pretending they had put this all together as some kind of weird birthday present, since my birthday is April 21st. (After all, anything I enjoy that happens within a week of my birthday was clearly put together as a birthday present for me, right???)

On the other hand, this means I don't need to consider tweaking the PTO I have scheduled for this month so I can actually watch the first episode live. And better yet, now I can schedule to actually take that day off!

When/where was the date change announced?
I thought the whole idea was to to be streaming a session during the May 22nd kickstarter.

It will be streaming during the Kickstarter: https://www.reddit.com/r/sentinelsmultiverse/comments/89gdii/new_sentinel_comics_rpg_kickstarter_launch_date/

… you’d figure that a good place to announce that change would be on your own website, with your own forums, instead of bloody Reddit. grumbles

July! ... July! But I want the RPG NOW!!!

[Insert picture of the spoiled and entitled girl from Willy Wonka here, just with my face super-imposed over her's]

There was a second RPG video on twitch that I started to watch where Christopher and someone else were doing some Game Mastery plotting. I think it was something live that I started to watch but now I can't seem to find it. Did I halllucinate this? 

It was with Paul Bender (Check the box of SotM) it exist but not easy to access. They don’t want any of the player to see it.

I will have to find it if it is still up.

Please do, if you can. I'd love to see it myself. :)

I want to watch episode 0, but it is no longer on twitch and not yet on youtube 

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/245756504

The link was changed it would seem. That should be session 0 but not the planning session.