Character Creation

Whenever I run or play an RPG, I try to stay as far away from pre-made characters as I can. That being said, I'm finding this difficult to do in the sentinels rpg. I ordered the books and downloaded the pdfs. Unfortunately, I either missed an entire book or the rules for character creation are unclear. I can't find basic balancing information like what HP ranges are acceptable, guidelines for creating your own ability mechanics, or how many powers and qualities at what strength are advisable.

I'm not asking for anything set in stone; I've used the cortex system in the past and that is up for interpretation. I'm just asking if anyone has any advice for where to look for any sort of section on character creation. As it stands, the best I can do at the moment is try to reverse engineer the pre-made characters to try and find common themes.

That's because you don't have the book on character creation.  What has been released so far is only the Starter Kit, which only introduces the game system and the world.  The full RPG will go on Kickstarter early next year.

Thank you.

The adventures in the starter kit tells the story of what happened to the Freedom Five and Unity a few months after the OblivAeon event, setting up for the starting events of the RPG where your characters come in.

I hope this Kickstarter does not take as long as the Oblivaeon box set. Have they stated that the book text is complete and that the Kickstarter is only there to allow for a large upfront print run?

They haven't stated that because I don't believe it to be true yet. But, I also believe that will be the case when they make it that far.

In general, Kickstarters for RPGs tend to deliver much faster than those for board games, simply because there are so few physical components.  While the art and layout can be time consuming, many of the notable rpg companies–and it sounds like > G and Critical Hits are doing this as well–often prep the pdf prior to the KS launch so that, as soon as the drive ends, they can send backers PDF copies of the books.

I imagine we'll see digital versions of the rules–at least in beta form–during or shortly after the KS ends.

My impression is that development of the game system is complete, and all that’s left is the creation and editing of the game manuals. Which is not a trivial task, but it isn’t too bad either.

Also, this Kickstarter is unlikely to double in size in the stretch goals the way Oblivaeon did.

Normally the system is pretty quick, but all the nuts and bolts take a while to tighten. For instance, D&D’s d20 system would have been very quick to develop, but then there are classes, feats, spells, magic items, etc. which take a lot of iteration and playtesting. I can’t tell from the starter kit how much is fixed options and how much is freeform, though, so I have no idea how much of that sort of thing Sentinels will require.

Added piece making this possibly go faster is that the printing of the books would be US based instead of being done in China.   Once the book is done that saves at least a month or more in travel time for them to get it at their warehouse.  

{VaderVoice}:I find your lack of faith… disturbing. 

But seriously, RPG kickstarters tend to set a pretty low base goal for the books themselves, and go through loads of stretch goals. (Check the Savage Rifts, Torg Eternity or Delta Green kickstarters for examples.) 

However, unlike the card game where everything is expected to be in one box, RPGs tend to add other books (or things like fancy character sheets, sample characters, adventures, etc) to the line. The core book itself may get bigger due to KS stretch goals, of course, but it'll be stuff that builds on what they've already developed. So more villains or environments, maybe more NPC heroes, maybe info on pre-Oblivaeon stuff. But that's just expanding the toy box, not inventing new toys. 

Also, RPG kickstarters tend to give backers something, even if it's a plain text beta document, as soon as the check from Kickstarter clears. 

It also depends how big of a launch this is. Since the kickstarter was originally shooting for a summer launch during GenCon, I think the documents are pretty far along and should deliver quickly. That being said, what would a project like this be without the option to buy Freedom Five dice sets to play with!

I would actually shell out extra cash for a Freedom Five themed Chessex dice set.

"I'D BUY THAT FOR SEVERAL DOLLARS!!1!"

Seriously though, I'd like a FV Dice set but i'm more interrested in a good GM screen. A good GM screen makes the game a lot easier to run. Something with a lot of references and tools for me would be amazing. What I'd like to see is a series of comic book bursts along the top on both sides and a little plastic slider i can use for the scene tracker. I know they might not be thinking of a screen with this system because it's more open like Wod's storyteller systems but if done right it can even be kept around by the players as a quick reference that could really help

If I'm remembering correctly, I think the game guide in the starter kit says that they don't want the GM to have a screen?

I understand the reason that they want the rolls to be out there, but besides all the good reasons a GM needs a screen that I'm not going to get into here, they're just plain useful for holding charts and info...

The starter kit comes with a screen though...

I re-read page 9 of the game guide. It says, refering to dice rolls "Make sure you roll them out on the table where everyone can see them-GM too. No rolling behind a screen in this game, even for the GM!" So a screen is fine, just no rolling behind it.

My brain automatically connected 'no rolling behind the screen' as 'no need for a gm screen', so that's where I got confused.

I am excited to answer a few of the questions posed by this thread!

1) The character creation rules (and the villain/lieutenant/minion/environment/etc rules) were actually all done *before* making the Starter Kit; they are what we used to make the starter kit! What we're working on right now is "tightening bolts", and also writting out with words things that are in Christopher's/Dave's/other people's heads to make it easier to use the stuff we've already crafted, pulling together examples, creating a bunch more pre-made characters, and laying out the book.

2) All of the RPG books (anything that is "bound printed matter", so the Starter Kit counts) will be made in the US! This makes logistics *so much easier*; it is hard to over-emphasize how much easier :)

In summary, because of points 1 and 2 above, the Core Rulebook from the KS will be delivered quite a bit faster than OblivAeon, and we hope to have some PDF assets for backers even before the physical book ships.

3) Things like a GM screen and dice are *definitely* things that some people will want. I in particular love GM screens to hide notes and reference material, even though for this game I always roll in the middle of the table. We are considering making a "GM Kit" containing all of the cool kinds of things that are *not* bound printed matter, and which consequently need to be manufactured in China. Aside from dice and a GM screen, is there anything that you'd like to see in such a product?

Hmm... Unless it's visible somewhere on the GM screen, a scene tracker would be awesome. With maybe a little token or clip along the side so it's easy to tell what the scene color is.

Definitely a scene tracker, although the easiest implementation would probably be a clip or pointer on top of the GM screen (although then it would be reversed from the perspective of one side or the other).  And showing the color of each stage would be an interesting creative/engineering challenge.

twoeyedjack also raised the very interesting topic of objective index cards.  The way he described Philippe-Antoine Ménard's use of them, they fundamentally change the way players see and interpret the events around them.  A half-dozen rewritable cards, or a single sheet with a half-dozen spaces on it, with checkboxes to mark completed steps of each objective, would not only be a handy tool but would help shape the experience (if Philippe-Antoine's approach is the recommended one).

An initiative tracker would also be handy.  I'm thinking a board with flaps or something, where you could write each of the heroes' names and those of their opponents.  When someone's turn is taken, you fold their flap over to indicate that they're no longer available to act.  For the NPC's, I'm thinking each one should also have, in small print so there's still room to write, "Minion group 1," "Minion group 2," "Lieutenant 1," "Lieutenant 2," "Villain," "Environment," etc. (and a few blanks) so that it's simple to tell what everything is and so lazy GMs don't have to fill it all out every time if they don't want to.  Ideally the flaps would fold two ways: one to indicate that their turn has been taken, the other to indicate that "slot" isn't in use during this scene.  Or they could fold over backward so you can still see the writing and know they're in use.

I'd also like to see a minion tracker of some sort, but I'm at a loss as to how such a thing would work.  I'd love to have some sort of card where you could move markers around to indicate how many minions there are, and of what size, without scribbling it all on paper (which is hard to parse, especially for the players) or using piles and piles of dice.  I guess dice are cheap enough these days that you could just use those, and there's a visceral satisfaction to rolling the very icon that represents the minions.

I mentioned the Noteboard on another thread. A sentinels themed one would be cool…

https://thenoteboard.com

I think in addition to a Screen &/Or dice an Initative tracker would be fantastic. 

One thing that I have seen is a magnetic board I've seen a couple of the GM's i know use it for more structured initiative games. it would be pretty easy to set up a clipboard like thing with magnetic character icons to fit our purpose

My idea is to devided an 8&1/2X11 sheet into 3 sections to top 2/3 is devided vertically into Red & Blue, & the tracker comes with a bunch of small hex magnets that we can move back & forth, several heroes as well as minion groups, lieutenant and Villains, Then the bottom third can be used for notes. When someone is handed initiative move their Hex from the red side to the blue side. Then once everyone is on the blue side flip a toggle or slider on top & start moving people back to the red side as they go. There'll probably be better ideas but that's how i'd set it up.

A scene tracker would be neato.

An idea I have been playing around with is using different colored poker chips for the scene tracker, and advancing the tracker by flipping the chip to the other side, which would have some kind of alternate symbol.  I like this because it is easy to play with the scene structure.  Need an extra green status, and one less yellow?  Then simply switch which chips are being used.  Officially produced trackers like this, perhaps with hero images on one side and villain images on the other would be super cool.

I also wouldn't mind a HP tracker of some kind.  Something along the lines of the Magic Life trackers with the spinning wheels.

Physical scene trackers are neat, but I'm a bit hesitant to second their creation because it seems like the sort of area that's open to GM interpretation.  As in, one threat might stay in Green for quite a while (5 rounds), before taking a sharp turn for the worse (2 rounds in yellow, 2 rounds in red), while one another scene might escalate faster (2 rounds in Green), then level out before getting worse (6 rounds in yellow, 2 rounds in red).

I'm also the sort of GM that, for the most part, won't likely tell players how many static rounds they have--rather, it's the sort of thing that I'll fudge here and there, based on the party's actions, and keep the revelations of a color change until the point it actually happens.

I'm almost picturing a clear tube or column that could hold 10-12 chips/marbles/tokens.  During the first round, you toss in a green one.  Each round, you toss another green one in until you hit yellow...that's when you toss a yellow in.  You can then put this in the middle of the table so it's a constant reminder of what status/color the table is in...

Plus, if you start off a scene in Yellow or Red, you could immediately do that; just start with the appropriate token.

Like a single-column Connect Four board?  I like that.

I have very mixed feelings about whether the players should know in advance when the scene tracker will change color–but then again, the idea of telling the players exactly what goals were available to meet in a given scene was quite a revelation to me.  If they should know in advance, there could be little green, yellow, and red sliders on the side of the tracker that the GM could move to different heights.

Got it in one!  :D  

Plus, this would give the opportunity to make Sentinel Comics branded chips (maybe poker-chip sized) to throw into it!

I tend to try for consistency around the idea of "will the players feel punished by this instead of challenged by it?"

So if you choose to use the Scene Tracker and thus place a time limit, then to reduce the feeling of being punished by the limit instead of challenged, I feel you should use the Tracker openly and make it clear what goals the players need to accomplish.

In contrast, if you remove the Scene Tracker or make the Tracker progression based on what happens during the actual roleplaying (i.e. rather than moving it once per turn, it only moves when something particularly bad is done by either side or an enemy clearly progresses their status in-character), then it makes more sense to up the challenge level to compensate by having the Tracker progress be secret and you can also have the goals be secret since players now have a realistic enough amount of time to discover the goals through natural exploration/roleplay.

Aside: Which is what I was trying to get at in the other thread that a couple people like PlatinumWarlock instead wildly misinterpreted. I feel the Scene Tracker taken as is limits the opportunity to naturally roleplay out finding the goals and how to achieve them since you just won't have the time to actually do that. So I feel it's one or the other to keep the right level of challenge; you either have to feed players the goals yourself so they have enough in-game time to do them, or you have to change the limit to give them a realistic amount of in-game time for natural discovery.

That said, either way I still think some kind of physical tracker with variable spots per zone could be handy. Since even if it's secret the GM could use something to track with, and likewise even if the players find out the goals on their own a "Quest Log" they can update themselves is still handy for their own uses.

Also as someone who likes to roleplay online, some kind of online syncable digital app would be pretty pie-in-the-sky welcome too, where the players could keep track of their sheets and also see other people's sheets and quest notes and the tracker if applicable. Then you could just chat in IRC or whereever. Would work out fine for offline use, too.

Totally agree.  If the players are working against a fixed clock, it's excessively punishing to force them to use actions to explore and learn about the situation.  I like the idea of using the scene tracker in a more fluid way, rather than just not using it at all, if the scenario should be tense and urgent but not necessarily kick-down-the-door frantic and action-packed.

This can also be used by the GM to customize pacing to whatever works for them: if the GM initially gave the players the freedom to examine the situation carefully but they're abusing the privilege and bogging the game down, the GM can advance the scene tracker to remind them that there is in fact a clock, if a slow one.

After playing through 3 issues I found the time limit wasn’t really a huge limitation. In future games I’m likely to let players properly explore the scene at the beginning and begin the scene tracker when the fight actually gets going (with a shorter time frame I guess). And if a player encounters a major twist that reveals their location/ makes a loud noise/ turns a corner into some sentries/whatever then that would affect where the tracker might start.

Just out of curiosity, how many players were you playing with?

I’ve got two 2-player games that have started (first scene of Issue #1), and the one thing that I’m cautious of is that the “clock” will be a little short for a 2-hero team (vs if I managed to merge the two groups into a 4-hero team, which probably won’t happen).

I’m pretty sure you played it as it was meant to be played. The scene tracker only should really start when the peril does.

We had 5 in total and if anything they got through everything quicky. It didn’t help that they played very defensivey and so did things like make sure Tempest was as far away as possible from the robotic dinosaur that would advance the scene tracker, but that’s okay.

Two might be tough but if it’s looking like they’re in trouble I don’t see why you couldn’t give them a couple of extra yellow or red turns, or on a success make it so that the villain does something to extend the scene tracker.

Yeah, I guess I more meant that I’d like to go more out of my way to do more exploration based stuff before they get to the fights so there’s more world building happening where the characters are in charge. I found in my games that was lacking a bit in that department.

Yeah, that's what I was concerned about; my old group was slow because they loved the world building and exploration parts, and I was worried the Tracker would get in the way of that.

(Granted we also were bad at coming up with efficient strategies during combat and actually not rolling failures all the time, so there was that too.)

Though I really do like MindWanderer's ideas for altering how the Scene Tracker works.

A health tracker would be nice. I played AZ at PAX Unplugged and my HP was constantly jumping around.

Dice are a must!

I backed Feng Shui 2 a few years ago and one of the upgrades offered was a plastic character creation sheet that worked with dry erase markers to allow for quick updates, edits, etc as you played